₦airaland Forum

mantraa:
Quantum mechanics can record a particle to be in two places at the same time. There is still a lot more to be discovered and understood.

Correct me if i am wrong but i thought the act of recording actually collapses the probabilty wave function and fixes the position of the particle at a single point

@nuclearboy
'PURE UNADULTERATED GOD'
Let me take you from here. The interesting about the christian is that he is capable of believing in several mutually exclusive ideaologies at the same time. And is also capable to shifting the goal post continously to accomodate any arguement. Its hard to shoot down a moving target so i need you to FIX your position before this discussion continues by ansking a few simple questions

1. Is jesus the Almighty God?
2. Is he the Son of God?
3. Has God ever lived in flesh among us other than as Jesus?
4. Does God taking up flesh and living among us make him loose his omniscience and omnipresence?
5. Do you believe in trinity?
6. Does God Change?

viaro, i dont know enough physics to prove this.

You see, ealier, scientist used to think the universe was timeless, without beginning. Hence no need for a creator. They hit a stumbling block when discovery that the universe was expanding and evidence that from 'echoes' of cosmic radiation poinyed to a beginning and hence the big bang. They did not like the idea of a universe that has an origin cos it inevitably points to an 'Originator'. To circumvent this Originator, they r now saying it came into existence out of nothing

Personally, i am a one woman man but i do not agree with your point. the problem of excess women is still present today as was during the time of the Prophet. This is reason why we have many unmarried women in the world today, especially in the western world. Lately women from non muslim countries are beginning to consider polgamy as an option. They claim 'half a man is better than no man at all'

beneli:
No, certainly not by reason, but by Faith. God can be 'known' only by Faith.

Using reason, logic or science to try to apprehend God will always leave room for arguements that lead nowhere. The 'wave function collapse' thing you mentioned provides, those that would argue for God, a theoretical tool they can use for their arguments or something 'tangible' for the scientifically minded to anchor their 'understanding' of what they already have believed in through Faith, but it certainly provides no 'evidence' for His existence. Those that would argue against His existance would say it's just another process in quantum mechanics. Nothing more.

if you call it Faith and not Reason, then i put it to you that so called atheist also disbelive in God by Faith and not reason.
Same way science cannot prove God, it also cannot disprove him. So how does an atheist 'know' that God does not exist if he cannot prove it. He only accepts his belief by faith

No i dont think anything can come out of nothing. Proof of this can be found in the reverse. Can nothing come out of 'something'?' No!
Yes we know matter can convert to energy but not to nothing. Something similar happens in black holes where matter is 'squezzed' in a Singularity of zero volume and infinite density. This singularity is actually a 'gravitational shadow' of the matter and thus cannot be called nothing.
simply put, what happened in the big bang is the reverse of what happens in black holes

beneli:
I doubt it proves the existence of God, but it certainly adds more weapons to the arsenal of those that would use science to argue for His existence!

God does not need science to prove Him. He can only be known through reason

The bahai are not muslms in any way. they observe none of the tenets of islam. they belive in Buddha, Confuctius Zoaroater etc. they claim to be something of an amalgam of all world religions

something in the video reminds me of a paper i read somtime ago. The author 'proved' the existence of God using collaspsing wave functions. he claimed since only the act of observation can fix the position of an electron and thus cause the probabilty wave equation to collapse, the universe would never have formed at the point of the big bang if there was no one to observe. Simply because atom would never have formed if there was no one (God) to observe them. The electronswould have been 'everywhere' at the same time

for the sake or argument i will accept what you have said about jesus as true. But does this prove jesus to be God or Son of God? if it does, it simply means Adam is more of God or son of God.

Jesus was a combination of mary (of Adamic descent and thus affected by the original sin) plus pure spirit of God.
Adam is purer cos he has no father or mother, just pure spirit.

Hope you are also aware that it was not only jesus that God 'annoited' in the bible. King Saul was also 'Anoited' even before he Belived.

the position of the muslim is very clear. we do not deny his messaniship or his ranking as one of those closest to God.
Qur'an 2:253   Surah Al-Baqarah (The Heifer)
'Those apostles We endowed with gifts some above others: to one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honor); to Jesus the son of Mary We gave clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit,  . .'

What we are saying is that he is not God nor son of God.

Qur'an 4:171-173   Surah An-Nisaa (The Women)
O people of the Book! commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but truth. Christ (Maseeh) Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an Apostle of Allah and His Word which He bestowed on Mary and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Apostles. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One Allah: glory be to him: (for Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
Christ (Maseeh) disdaineth not to serve and worship Allah nor do the angels those nearest (to Allah): those who disdain His worship and are arrogant He will gather them all together unto himself to (answer).
But to those who believe and do deeds of righteousness He will give their (due) rewards and more out of His bounty: but those who are disdainful and arrogant He will punish with a grievous penalty; nor will they find besides Allah any to protect or help them.

Qur'an 5:72-77   Surah Al-Ma'idah (The Table Spread)
They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ (Maseeh): "O children of Israel! worship Allah my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah Allah will forbid him the garden and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.
They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy) verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.
Why turn they not to Allah and seek His forgiveness? For Allah is Oft-forgiving Most Merciful.
Christ (Maseeh) the son of Mary was no more than an Apostle; many were the Apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth makes His Signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!
Say: Will ye worship besides Allah something which hath no power either to harm or benefit you? But Allah He it is that heareth and knoweth all things."
Say: "O people of the Book! exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper) trespassing beyond the truth nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by who misled many and strayed (themselves) from the even way.

@Kay17, valid point

enitan2002:
time machine in your dreams, there're simply some things that are not possible

The concept of time machiine does not necesarily mean a device that can physically transport you to another time. it may simply be a machine that can give you a glimpse of the past. Do you know that every time you look at the sun, you are looking 8.5 minutes back in time. if the sun were to dissapear suddenly it woiuld take you 8.5 minutes to visually confirm the event.

Sincerly i cannot blame Abuzola 100%. i too sometimes find their blasphemy and hypocrisy unbearable that i am forced to respond. May Allah guide us aright

@justcool, your idea is quite intriguing but i think it can be fine tuned. Any light that reflected from the earth in the past will be spreading out at the speed of light (186,000ml/s). You are suggesting deploying a telescope that will intercept these rays and beam it back to us. What you fail to realize is that this telescope has to travel to the point X at which it wil start recording. The speed at which this telecope will travel from earth to point X is also limited by the speed of light.

Let me give you clearer decscription. If we were to deploy the telescope TODAY (assumming we have technology to transport at speed  of light) the telescope will be travelling side by side with rays that just reflected from the earth. Hence it cannot record any data older that TODAY. It even gets worse considering that this captued image wilL have to take an equalt length of time to reach us back on earth
What i am suggesting is designing a telscope or other device that can capture light (that was reflected from earth)  that has been bouncing around in space for millions of years. This telescope it to be resident on earth or near space and all it has to do is capure 'old rays' that reflected from earth and has been bouncing around for millions of years

nuclearboy:
No human fathered Adam and Jesus according to the Koran. They came direct as a result of the Word of the Almighty God, not ""the same entity that the Bible says mothered Lady Eve. No?"

Hadith Mishkat said Jesus will come back to rule the Kingdom of God. Is the Hadith lying? Okay so we now know one lie-filled Hadith. No?

Surah 3:55b. Quote it for us and tell us the Arabic meaning so we "kufirs (no?)" see how the Koran and every other Muslim has been lying till you now correct them.

Messiah means nothing to Muslims!!!!!!! Why is it then in the Koran?? Are you saying Allah had nothing to write there so He put it there to pass time? Why are you insulting your religion?

Yes, Allah differs from allah. The difference is you capitalized the "A". And yes, the pagans did every single thing you're making noise about.

Oh ok, so just as Adam, you too, Baba-70, was commanded into being by Allah and Alhaji (No?) Olabowale had no congress with your mother before you were born. All hail the "3rd Adam", "baba-70". If your dad did sleep with your mother, tell me who slept with Mary that resulted in Jesus. I just hope you agree your Prophet had an earthly father. Tell us openly then, the difference between the progeny of these two "messengers" as you call them. And stop lying like a 3 year old. You use Mary's ancestors to mean Jesus ancestors openly as though Mary not only mothered him but also fathered Him.

Come to think of it, even that makes Him more special than ANYBODY else in history   

You go about seeing the speck in other religions and peoples eyes forgetting you too are not above scrutiny. Respect my belief and I will leave you alone to yours. Continue the insults and I tell you now, Voltron, you will wish you weren't literate to read what will be posted here.

as per the nature of jesus. this is what the quran has to say

Qur'an 3:59   Surah Ale-'Imran (The Family of 'Imran)
This similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam: He created him from dust then said to him: "Be" and he was.
The truth (comes) from Allah alone; so be not of those who doubt.

it appears to me that you confuse the word Messaih with Saviour. Messaih simply means "The Annoited'. translated to Christos in greek an then christ. By default, every prophet of God is annoited. however this title is specially reserved for jesus in the quran. Other prophets are called specially by some title as listed below. But that to does not mean others do equally fulfill these attributes
Adam - Safiyu’llah - The chosen of God
Noah - Nabiyu’llah - The preacher of God
Abraham - khililu’llah - The friend of God
Moses - Kalimu’llah - The converser with God
Muhammad - Rususlu’llah - The messenger of God.

lets assume for the sake of arguement that the bible did not infer that the earth is 6,000 yrs old. But is man 6,000 yrs old? The answer is still a big NO

@No2Atheism, do you think you just made any sense

segyemaro:
You are too harsh my brother.

How do you mean I am too harsh. Have i lied? Or was i the one that recorded in the bible that the first miracle that Lord jesus performed was making drunkards of wedding attendees (and ever since beer has flowed like water in Christendom). On this, the famous Jimmy Swagghart said "jesus was no kill joy". That is why we have a society of over 1.5 billion christians who think it is ok to get drunk. Why? Because their god showed off his brewing skills.

@kunleOshob, what do you mean by moderation? how does someone already under the influence know the limits. Alchohol or any other intoxicant for that matter works to dullen that part of your brain that sets the limits

Either you guys like it or not only islam provides the answers to all your questions and solution to all your problems. Prophet Muhammad, said what ever intoxicates in large amounts in forbidden even in small amounts; not even a drop or a nibble. In a single verse of the Quran Allah gives solution to almost all your problems.
"O You who believe, intoxicants, gambling, and the altars of idols, and the games of chance are abominations of the devil; you shall avoid them , that you may succeed." Qur’an (5:90)
After these verses were revealed drums of wine were emptied in the streets of Medina, never to be refilled again. Please compare that to the so called first miracle of your god jesus

Noetic and co, pls stop making a fool of religion. THE EARTH IS NOT 6,000 YEARS OLD! YEC DEFIES COMMON SENSE!

sokislam:
Look at who is correcting one of going to school here. Maybe u need an eye glass to check the bone of discussing, incase u can't make it anyway, it is a pleasure to offer u a free service.

Here is the topic of discussion "YOU ARE DOGS, SAID JESUS" Christians who are Hypertensive should'nt read this

Therefore the topic is in a way related to Christians and going through the discussion so far, it was established.

Now, you were asked to make a cogent point on how Jesus called the Christian dogs, just an evidence of your statement, you started beating around the bush. What an Illiterate Scholar! (U have a reference point anyway  )

DONT YOU HAVE ANY DIGNITY? FIND BELOW YOUR POST AND MY RESPONSE AGAIN! YOU CANT DODGE

Quote from: sokislam on December 05, 2009, 05:58 PM
@ seeker, it is a pity that u just decided to be irrational in your statement. There is no iota of fact in what u are presenting. The question is "where exactly did Jesus called Christian dogs?"

But instead of answering that simple question, u went on behaving irrational. I really want to discuss with an individual that are ready to reason out issue and not being kidding. And that's the simple reason why most christian had stop responding to your comments. Would you for a moment think about your actions?


MY RESPONSE
Did you go to school at all. How would jesus have called christians DOGS when he never heard the word CHRISTIAN all his life,
However, you or any christian in the world cannot deny that he called Gentiles (non Jews) DOGS and SWINE.
I wonder how you can bow down your head to a racist God that called you and me such filthy, dirty names. Unless you are telling me you are a Jew. Are you a Jew? Answer me if you dont have any shame or conscience

uplawal:
he cried like this,yeye yeye yeye egbamio,egbamio,yeyeyeyeye,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,fade

Poor guy. I can imagine him wimping and sobbing helplessly on the cross. With mucor and saliva dripping from his nose and mouth. Even his DADDY forsook him.
christianity is pure comic relief 

noetic15:
God: one who exhibits all authority (known and unknown), [/b]to whom ALL is subject, creator of all creations, [b]all knowing and super-intelligent.
god: a local deity

Young man, you enjoy shooting yourself in the leg. Your defination disqualifies jesus as God. How come your almighty  jesus said he did not  know the last hour. Was he lying or juest playing his usual  human games like eating, crying, dying etc

Indeed some of the most powerful words in human history!

Quran "2:79
'Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from God," to traffic with it for a miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby'

uplawal:
he cried like this,yeye yeye yeye egbamio,egbamio,yeyeyeyeye,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,fade

Pls dont kille me with laughter!

Now i know why Hitler killed with no remorse. As long as he remained a christian he was 'sinless'.
cos some jewish capenter died for his sins

kenny888:
Last weekend i was invited by a friend to their church baazar in a catholic church,i agreed to go wit him. During the baazar alot of various alcoholic drinks were displayed for sale including beer. I discovered that these alcoholic drinks were sold on a high rate, even a bottle of star beer was sold at #2000,i began to look around me if i was in d church or a beer parlour. So i would want nairalanders to share their experiences here to be sure i am not the only one with this experience.

Why are you complaining? Was it not your capentar god that set an example by turning drums of water in BEER

KunleOshob:
Contrary to how you and some nairalanders try to mis-represent me, i have no doubt what so ever about the divinity of Jesus however i am not from the trinity school of thought that preaches three in one God or that Jesus is co-equal to his father as this heresy is very contrary to the position of the bible on who christ is. For the purpose of clarity i would restate my positon. Jesus being the son of God is also a God, however God almighty who is his father is greater than him and he is also answerable to God.

No matter how hard you or the whole of christendom try you will never be able to reconcile your beliefs.
How can jesus be God and also be subject to another God, when one of the attributes of God is that He is subject to no one and all is subject to Him
You will not have to bother with reconcilling jesus divinty and the unequivocal unity of the only true God if you simply accept his rightful place (as a mighty prophet) as given in the Quran

lousy thread. What more does one expect from noetic

sokislam:
@ seeker, it is a pity that u just decided to be irrational in your statement. There is no iota of fact in what u are presenting. The question is "where exactly did Jesus called Christian dogs?"

But instead of answering that simple question, u went on behaving irrational. I really want to discuss with an individual that are ready to reason out issue and not being kidding. And that's the simple reason why most christian had stop responding to your comments. Would you for a moment think about your actions?

Did you go to school at all. How would jesus have called christians DOGS when he never heard the word CHRISTIAN all his life,
However, you or any christian in the world cannot deny that he called Gentiles (non Jews) DOGS and SWINE.
I wonder how you can bow down your head to a racist God that called you and me such filthy, dirty names. Unless you are telling me you are a Jew. Are you a Jew? Answer me if you dont have any shame or conscience

mayblossom:
John 1:1---In the begining was the word,and the word was with God,and the word was God
John 1:14---The word was made flesh and dwelt among us

, and the word was hung on a cross and the word died
end of story

Your God jesus not only called you dogs he also called you pigs (The guy really hated pigs, no wonder he casted demons that he could have otherwise destroyed into an innocent herd of pigs. Yet somehow you guys enjoy eating them)
" 'Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.' " (Matthew 7:6, NKJV)

To further remind you that he was not sent to pigs and dogs like you he further said
Matthew 15:24} But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Jesus also said:  "These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: 'Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.'  (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 10:5-6)"

If you still are not convinced take a look at this scene on judgment day. If you are not a jew nothing for you. Say who?
Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of Man will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.’" Matthew 19:28