ziccoit: @Trace, I will look into the issue of constantly spinning radiator fan and failed thermostat. About the possibility of radiator fan electric being tampered with, I guess white people too have joined their Nigerian counterparts in the bussiness of wire bypass. Because, this vehicle has never being worked on in Africa.

Hmm - I guess there is some misunderstanding somewhere. Surely, I'm not on your page.

Give me your manufacturing model and region (from the tattoos (panel and gas door)). The "coolings" are different based on market. What is/are your vehicle's mannerism/s?

Another possibility could be that it was tinkered with before it got to you. In the interim, please, go through the details that have been logged on this thread. [This way] your understanding is primed as others chip in. The heat-transfer is dynamic.

danadam: @Trac

Now I get your message. Next time i'm gonna take both parts home, though rebuilding this exact CV axle might be unsuccessful here where i reside. I doubt if our mechos have the technical knowledge of rebuilding such a sensitive part. However, there's no harm in trying so I will find out more about it. The New part replaced is also OEM, used one. At least it far better compare to any china brand New part, quality wise. Thanks for your time, I believe we all appreciate your efforts on the Mercedes thread.

You are welcome. Hopefully, you won't have to do such service in the future. A rule of thumb with your generation of Mercedes and newer: always store your old part (except it is unarguably junk). One: for reference and comparo; two: potential error-in-judgement(s). The second point is what I'll reference. Certain should not be replaced except it is completely "toast." If you replace such a part with the new one, it will not work; unless it is hard-coded to the vehicle with the Mercedes-handtool. Usually, parts are not to be removed in the first place without absolute certainty. This is because a reset will be required for certain conditions due to the nature. Problems multiply and in some cases, from unrelated areas. In an issue where the "violation" happened to be a part swap, simply revert to the original part taken out. Irritating enough is this approach to problem-solving and "they" got away with it. Now, piracy laws are being integrated into vehicles where you can't service it without proper authorisation, lest you'll be infringing on copyright and they are serious about it. They call it "the future." If I'm not wrong, its already in production.

danadam: Thanks for the enlightenment. I kept the original part, the right side CV axle only. I felt there was no need keeping the left side CV axle which was faulty. You are not surprised! Sorry I don't get the message you're tryin to relay, Please kindy explain a little further.

Both parts ought to have been taken home. You can rebuild it (if it's not too damaged). At least, the base is original-equipment-manufactured. You simply use stronger replacement parts.

The part failure is something I've never seen in a Mercedes. I'm yet to hear or witness a velocity-axle replaced on any Mercedes Benz; and that's reflecting on Benzes with decades in age. The 2001+ generation of C Class is a notorious model when it comes to product quality. There are other issues that leaves one puzzled with this model and this gave me no surprise. It was an unwarranted repair (no matter what anybody says). There is an issue with the springs (rendering it unmovable) giving up or rusts in delicate areas. I usually don't recommend Benzes to my friends (except certain models).

isoboyea: Volvo 240 has clocked 2mil on thesame engine,thats the highest millage i know and volvo collected the car and kept in her musuem n also a 96 passat has done over a million bt it was a diesel engine.maintainance

There is an E-Classes and an S Class. A 1976 Mercedes-Benz 240D at almost 3 million miles and 1970 280SE at more than 1 million. Mercedes stated many are around the one million mile mark.

I have seen an Accord with 400,000+ miles. Accord was roughly ten years old. There was also a Peugeot at the parking lot on campus with more than 450,000+ miles. This (both cars) was ten years ago approximately.

Ikenna351:
Please, it's not allowed to break threads in Nairaland. That's the Admin decision. Some threads in other sections have exceeded 100 pages.

Besides, that one finds it difficult to learn or get solutions to his car issues by going through thread, from the first page, should be the members headache. Even when a student missed a lecture, he would not expect the lecturer to have another class on the same subject he taught in the previous day because a student was absent in his last lecture. The student have his classmates notes to read up on what what was taught in the previous class and keep himself/herself updated, even though questions could be entertained in the next lecture for more clarifications.

So let's leave the thread as it is.

Moderator

I wasn’t going to break the thread. The reason I appealed to Kuntash so that I don’t infringe on what he has started.

Your point about the student in reference is strongly stated and proves itself reasonably. To be fair, the dynamics however are not a total translation as the conditions presents itself (at least from a practical point-of-view). The thread is a blend of pragmatics and technical-related discussions for general interaction. Recently, it has gained more identification for its solution-based posts. Rummaging through 40+ pages for a trivial essential does not seem “sustainable.” Imagine sustainability at 200+ pages. This is the first thread after the fifth page and trending - that I have seen - that retains its original objective(s). Most thread lose their “salt” and deviation occurs. The volume of the thread is not what matters but how substantial it is. It's not just for us (those that have contributed) but for others that may stumble upon and need to make reference(s) in the possible future.

The law of diminishing return is fast catching up with the thread. The cues are the repetitive questions/answers that is gaining prominence [now] due to how cumbersome the thread is. Repetitive questions and [repetitive] answers make up a sizable cluster of this thread. To buttress, I’m referring to pages and not a few posts. This is not progress but motion. At what point is it clear the thread gets locked?! So far, it is approaching infinity. The nature of this thread cannot accommodate such. It will “jump-the-shark” (for lack of a better expression).

Maybe there is more to this that I am not seeing/understanding.

kuntash:

Halos Trac, been a while, I have been out too... trust all is good with you..



I see u are in Abuja... It was difficult getting Behr here in Lagos too, but was lucky with a thorough search @ Ladipo market.

one trick to bear in mind though if I may assume many parts sellers might not be too privy to this thread ... DO NOT LET THE SELLERS KNOW THE THERMOSTAT BRAND IS SO IMPORTANT TO YOU, just tell them there is smthn you are looking for in the engine, with ur one eye looking for "BEHR" brand on many used engines displayed....

you sure would find one..

I’m doing well
Kind of you asking

Kudos on how to cheat the laws of economics (demand versus supply).

danadam:
The drive shaft was making noise whenever the steering wheel was turned extensively. The noise was from the left side drive shaft. I discovered that the boot band (clip) was no longer holding the rubber boot (hose) in place. Sand, dust and water must have affected the components inside the rubber boot which resulted to the annoying clicking sound. I didn't want to have any broken drive shaft experience so I had to replaced immediately. Both sides drive shaft were replaced and the car now drives.... wow.

It’s not a drive shaft. It’s a constant-velocity axle. Drive shafts acts as a propeller. Did you keep the original part? What attracted my interest was quality. This is the first MB of that age that I’m knowing where such axle failed. As previously stated, I’m not surprised.

yungboss:
that's true sir.
I have been following the rate at which pages aggregate, it exceeded the "Peugeot thread" at the 1,323rd post...

That’s a lot. It’s fast becoming fragmented. It won’t take long before the objective is lost and a breeding ground for trolls. It’s amazing how it’s gotten this far and the Mercedes subsidiary has been the core of the thread with very vague references to AMG’s, Lorinser etc (which is understandable). As the intensity of this fragmentation becomes fierce, the active participants will lose interest and topics relating to Smarts and Chryslers becomes a possibility among other irrelevant topics. It only takes an inch and the damage is done if not corrected on time. I’m yet to find a thread that is so long that stuck to the original posters references. Sultaan once mentioned stickies. I’m not sure how the grand-administrator feels about this and the measures it will take to integrate it. I don’t know about you or others but repetitive questions/posts are mostly frowned at.

ziccoit:
@Trace, welcome back to the house. You said sometimes ago that the only reason you visit NL is because of mb thread. So, where were you all this time?

About the issue of thermostat, I'm already looking for a Behr 87degC thermostat. Can the fail thermostat explain why the radiator fan kicks in and stay on right from the first minute of starting the engine?
If yes, kindly take me through the theory. I need to learn something.

I’ve been on NL (on other threads). I avoid interaction here to avoid conflicts and misunderstandings. It is not possible to avoid the two states mentioned with active participation. Checking-in every now-&-then is the best and there is peace. To avoid being a nuisance, this discretion was chosen. However, I wouldn’t mind withstanding the friction of conflict if a particular instance is termed critical and physical loss of property appears to be the next phase. That’s what got me started on this thread. So, I did not neglect the thread. I’m also not passionate about Mercedes as I was many years back. Nevertheless, it’s still a great rubber-tyre vehicle.

For the age of the vehicle, the hydraulic tensioner for the water pump has to be inspected. It’s a visual and tactile test and would require a trained person and it takes less than a minute. If it is okay, the 87degC thermostat would be best. The coolant has to be replaced as well. It is no good. If the tensioner is weakened, a lower temperature thermostat should be installed. An 84-85degC is what I will recommend as compensation for the mean-time. If you are skeptic, it will still get up 87degC but you only have a tighter “leash”; that is damage-control. It doesn’t eliminate the need for the required service but it buys time while the money is being quarantined and right person to carry the service is sought for. A point of caution is that this feedback is for Benz. Don’t apply this on another vehicle.

If you can’t find Behr, use another product. Don’t use a Wahler brand. Quality-Control of the Wahlers in application for Mercedes has led to unexpectations. They perform well on BMW’s, hence its OEM status. A golden rule is never to use an American part on a German vehicle (especially Benzes); they fail. The Japanese is an alternative but with discretion.

When posts are published, my goals are to make aware, enlighten and also empower. It’s always on purpose; thus, making the published post quantifiable. Earlier on in this thread, we went into details to create awareness. A bit difficult then because no one knew where I was coming from but the information got through. In two or three references, I used MBs official references. They are lengthy but very interactive. It is the grand-answer to your question because you will be empowered. You will not be tethered to anyone in this aspect. The third aspect to your question was answered by Kuntash. In other words, it was fashioned by the electrical technician. From what he disclosed, he simply undid everything and reverted to factory standard.

The link begins from here:

https://www.nairaland.com/520025/mercedes-benz-thread/4

Please, follow the interactive thread. It took time and co-operation. There are many pages but it will be worth it.

There are only three areas Nigerians (not just Nigerians) should concern themselves with Mercedes-ownership (post-war). That is cooling, lubrication and deposit-control. These are the only areas magnified. It becomes a matter when factory details are side-stepped. These areas have been well documented in this thread (with cost in mind) for general consumption. Understand, I’m not evading the core of your latter questions but referring you to where you will attain some measure of understanding. It is comprehensive with the goal that you don’t continuously work on your vehicle but have a dependable vehicle that gives a reasonable measure of reliability.

aikerism: Welcome back Trac its been a while!
About the issue of thermostat, I'm already looking for a Behr 87degC thermostat. I am finding it difficult locating same as I hve combed the whole Gudu market here in Abuja yet no show? I will take my search to Apo mechanic village later today, hope to hit the thermojackpot there...

How do you do?! If you cannot find the Behr brand, don’t waste your resources roaming around town; you aren’t being paid wasting your resource(s). Find an 87degC thermostat and you will be good. It is best to purchase two. Do not purchase an American thermostat and install it. Standards of specifications are different and the disturbing area of worry should be the failure state of the thermostat upon failure (if engine would be toasted or not – no pun intended). If Wahler is all you see, then go for it. You are aware of its unexpected failure potential, so the surprise element does not take advantage of you.

I'm not usurping the street-smart advice Kuntash responded with. I can imagine how that will be executed.

inze:

@kuntash

I have the wahler thermostat on a 1995 C180 Benz, though the fan comes on immediately at start-up I have never had an issue of over-heating, no matter how long am stuck in traffic. (AC always ON).

It's almost 5yrs and not a single overheat issue.

What's ur take on that?

Your setup is wrong. Iron and aluminium do not share the same coefficient of expansion.

kuntash:

^^^ that's where I have issue.

smthn is not right going by what u just said there.

the electric fan only should kick in

- when AC is turned on and engine already at running temp.
- when temp exceeds 100deg centigrade. it enters emergency mode and u would here a full blast of the fan.
- when your temp sensor is faulty and cannot tell the ecu the right temp, e.g when wires doesnt make contact etc....... bad wire harness .
- finally when our rewire must have bypassed the fan module and get power from your alternator.

Someone had altered the vehicle.

The thread is getting long. A lot of the issues are repetitive. Meanwhile, it's been answered in details. It'll be buried by page 100. I don't know if it makes sense to you; probably MB Thread II. The thread right above this is a typical complaint that has been addressed and would leave him empowered afterwards.

danadam: The pictures
pix 1 shows the new shaft purchased in lagos at a price of 130k and transportation expenses 5k totaling a sum of 135k.
pix 2.. The machanic trying to remove the old shaft
pix 3.. The culprit. The old driver side (left) shaft that makes the clicking sound
pix 4.. Checking out the alignment.

Hope you don't mind. I am just curious what required such a scale of repair. --- then again, I'm not surprised.

ziccoit:

Thank u chief.

You may be right. In front of the car when the bonnet is opened, there is a sticker there that shows a thermometer with temp ranging between 60-80 degree celsius. Which means the thermostat might have been average of 75 degree Celsius. In addition to this, I check the thermostat housing, inscribed on it is WHALER and A111 203 08 75 MADE IN GERMANY. This is buttressing the fact that the WHALER thermostat installed might be of 71 degree celsius.
I started the engine, waited for like 8mins for temp to reach 78 degree celsius and I opened the hood. Upper hose of the thermostat was very hot couple with the fact that the radiator fan kicked started and stayed on as soon as I started the engine.
I read it here that when WHALER thermostat fails, it does so in opened state so that the coolant keep on flowing no matter the engine temperature making the engine run cold. Since I still able to get ave temp of 71 degree celsius I want believe the thermostat is still functioning but wrongly ranged as you said.

QUESTIONS:
1. How can one explain the radiator fan that kicks in and stays on as soon as engine is started?
It runs at high speed with annoying sound (windy sound).

2. Why the radiator fan doesn't allow the temperature to go above the thermostat range before it kicks in?

Failed thermostat!

The answer has been thoroughly answered [earlier-on] in this thread.

In addition to what the thread reflects on your issue: check your tensioner. If it's weak, use a lower thermostat (that is 85degC). The service can be deferred for a few years (if it's not critical). I don't recommend this approach but it's best than service job improperly done.

Reference your owners manual. If you don't have it, call the dealership and ask. The question [though] is silly when referencing the Rolls Royce. It ought not to be in the mentioned-list. However, I will strongly recommend that you refrain from the one-size-fits-all transmission fluids because specifications are not alike (especially the BMW's).

A lot of people (NL - CarTalk) underestimate Japanese vehicles. For one: Toyota happens to be the best [overall] and highly referenced of all Japanese brands. In terms of manufacturing, they are built extremely well. As far as Nigeria is concerned, Japanese cars is what's suited right. Many buy cars to impress people.

I had to pause to figure if it was April's-Fool.

yungboss:
Toyota is a good brand, a very good brand- meets the need of those who are after economy.

Toyota as an "economy" car is a stereotype. Select models are economy. The engineering and details says otherwise. There are more details (engineering details) in a Toyota car than the "economy" category. Construction-wise, they are built exceedingly well. Attention to engineering details are high also. Their engineering emphases when marketing is always thorough; not as groundbreaking. Remember the cup (glass) proof/test? The engineering proof that shook the whole world and 20+ years later, the Europeans have not caught up. Remember the crane drop-test for structural integrity? These are tangible milestones that cannot be imitated.

An economy car is quantifiably based on accessories and functions: often built to a price, with reduced cost of ownership. Toyota's are somewhat cheap because labour in Japan is cheaper. There is market demand for the brand.

sultaan:

I don't really hate Toyota, I just don't like the fact that people are focused on boring brands and pay too much for an economy mistakes

I don't think its good spend so much on economic models. When the best minds in Nigeria think Camry is a dream car, there is a big problem

There is something common about Nigerians, Indians and Mexicans: they don't spend money on cars in terms of maintenance. What is necessary gets taken care of and that is that.

icemann:

Adding to what siena mention above 4WD are heavier compared to the 2WD versions. Its and extra shaft, extra gears in the box and i some cases an extra axel.



Energy Transfer law and friction and Difference in mass disprove the fact that 4WD are less thirsty than 2WD of the same model.

Thanks for the correction:after reading the whole thing, I misunderstood the trend and read it totally different. The answer given has no reference to the discussion :-)

yungboss: Good morning Trac,
I have really missed your active participation in the Threads, especially the Mercedes'. My email has been blocked by yahoo for months, so i lost touch. I will Create a new identity and communicate it to you.

How do you do?

-- no problem. I've been busy of recent as well (that's why I haven't gotten back). I've decided to break the task over a couple of days, thus broadening horizon. I'll try to have it completed before the holidays :-)

icemann:

Really? Still trying to wrap my head around this statement.

A head-start for you: inertia!

You have less torque per unit wheel against inertia. Mass is quad-divided.

erico2k2:
ALl these you just wrote where true only 15 years ago, |tropicalisation where terms used by local people to establishe thier assumed know how of imported vehicles back in teh days we mainly import cars from Germany Belguim etc, just to jug your memory, mention one car that is built for the tropics if not the SWAMP BUGGIE,you are making refrences to the isue of removing thermostats in cars which we have earlier discused on car talks as very silly.Its cost effective for car manufacturers to design and build cars to a specific standar to ensure cost effectivenes, ie cars could be used in whatever region you take them to.If you claim regions and tapography differs and are major factors in car production as you claim, explan why if I live in New york I can drive my car to frisco ,texas or florida? one is a desert and others are tropical just like west africa, no summer or winter.Cars are built to specification by Law and for all weather.

This is incorrect. In 2008, there was - to some level - a unitary move. It was cost efficient for the auto-companies. It was and has never been comprehensive. Unitarily, certain variable were considered and not every automotive manufacturer adopted this move. In engineering creativity, you will always have trade-offs.

To satisfy your question: you [very well] know Texas, New York and Florida is not Africa. What differentiates both zones? Definitely, it is not temperature. Temperature is a scaler quantity. That body of science is called "climate" which is a summation of diverse factors; hence a branch called "Environmental Science." If it's pointless to you, why don't you have apples and strawberries growing in Lagos?! Why is the complexion of your skin the colour it is? Why is your hair texture and structure the way it is? No creation has the texture of the sub-Saharan race. For your own race, why was extra precautions to heat-transfer (or thermodynamics for layman's sake) on your head taken? Why does your hair grow upwards - as oppose to every other race? Sincerely, the answer is not on the surface.

Permit me on this: in design-engineering, there are two fundamental pillars that can never be overlooked in the "planning" phase. These factors are regional and socio-economical. These are considerations. The next step cannot be birthed until these criteria has been resolved (along with the others). It is complex in the automotive sector. This is also why certain cars are not sold to neighbouring or distant market under the same name; though they look identical. The adaption for specific purposes are not the same.

It is true that it is cost-efficient to unify parts for all market but getting the best of both "worlds" is not possible in many designs. In addition, legislative and international laws will forbid certain possibilities. It is easier said to unify standards than done (especially when the numbers are high, high cost and the variables are dynamically complex).

This is furthest I can discuss to avoid being irrelevant to the topic.

JUO: @ trac so you be Christian?

Yes I am. It is also right to appropriate credit to Whom it belongs.

KA24DETT:

no matter how you cut it, Toyota sienna 4cylinder loaded to the brim with passenger and goods is definitely underpowered. I don't think they make 4cylinder sienna or even if they do, it dosent sell much.
What u mean by tropicalized? Las Vegas is hotter than Nigeria , Phoenix is hotter than Nigeria. Toyota and every manufacturer tests their cars to withstand the extremes of temperature . Your tropicalized and non toropicalized argument is a mute point. I remenber watching Mercedes video on their CLA class and the extreme temperature they put their cars through . Every automaker does that. You have to sell your car in Yukon Canada and also in Death Valley California.

The design considerations specified integrally for a 4-cylinder arrangement intended for van application is not relative to the application of a compact or alternative. If design considerations are side-stepped for van application - in this case - such a manufacturer is practicing out of scope. It is not as noticeable to you but try engineering one and executing the field-analysis-test (F.A.T) at prototype phase. For example: the '93 S Class had the 280 motor as the tamest engine. It powers the 4 tonne vehicle and performance thereof is adequate. The same 280 powered the Baby Benz of that era (C Class). From your logic, would it make sense to transplant a C-Class-designated-280 into an S Class and expect the same results??! There are 4-cylinder trucks as well designed to haul payload heavier than 7 adults. Fundamentally, they don't share the same approach to an economy compact but it is a 4-cylinder arrangement. Considerations are made to attain objectives. If my point wasn't sunk, I'll refer to the ultimate standard: the dictionary. I will use this as an approach to knock two "birds" with this single stone.

Specifications [ENG] An organized listing of basic requirements for materials of construction, product compositions, dimensions, or test conditions; a number of organizations publish standards (for example, American Society of Mechanical Engineers, American Petroleum Institute, and American Society for Testing and Materials), and many companies have their own specifications.

Also known as specs. [IND ENG] A quantitative description of the required characteristics of a device, machine, structure, product, or process.

S.E. Dictionary of Engineering, page 518

Rightly apply the above dictionary disclosure to tropicalised and non-tropicalised standards. If your justification of Nigeria and Las Vegas is the temperature variable, then no explanation will do. There is a lot more to manufacturing [background-wise] than you have conveyed. A point of notion to address: MB's designed for the United States is inherently not the same as MB designed for Africa. The term is called "identical." The engineering explanation to this is called "designation." Why would manufacturers invest billions of Euros to properly ( "unitarily" ) attain standards? Why don't they take your approach and save cost? The answer is simple: your logic doesn't work because it lacks a fundamentally vital attribute: "understanding." Rightly appropriating design considerations in the planning and conceptual phase [all through] to production will ultimately yield a product built to "standard." Nothing is done anyhow; you have precepts/laws and rules are placed to help adhere to precepts.

‘Jägermeister’:

Bro I had to read & re-read, brilliant break-down of points..but then again, u forget that scientic facts can be proven other-wise! Well I get your point though..Pls explain "low-gearing"

Scientific facts cannot be proven otherwise. If it is: it is no science. GOD does not make mistakes; HE is a perfectionist; "the world also is stablished that it cannot be moved - Psalms 93 .1-1/2 or 1b)." It (science) is GOD's laws of nature that puts everything in place. This is why you can't toss your keys in the air and it forgets to return to you. Corrupting it (science) with vain philosophies is abominable and shouldn't be sought after. Science is common sense; it has its own place in terms of application (that is it gives no revelation - it is factual). Suspension of scientific laws in real-time is defined as a miracle and GOD reserves the right[s] to Himself so that man never partakes (ascribes no portion) in the credit.

IdaraCHODB:


Just reading this response.

I noticed that you were both thorough and methodical in your writeup above, makes me realize you have got stuff upstairs!

You have a point.

Pay to play!

I recently had to "ferry" a mechanic 500km across Nigeria to fix my car so I could return home, so totally identify with the sentiments expressed above!

I intend (as soon as I can) to make a write-up on this. I don't know how soon it would be because it is somewhat broad and concising it becomes another hurdle. Nevertheless, every humble-minded person interested will benefit from it. :-)

smartchoice:
@Trac good to see you....but what the heck do you mean by the bolded blued word?

Hei: what's up?!

Stoichometric means the ratio of fuel and oxidant (oxygen in this case) and leaving no residue. In other words, no fuel or oxygen leftovers but just product (which is work or energy or power). This is during combustion.

Partial-Oxidation is a reaction that is not stoichiometric because it is deficient in oxygen. So, the constituent of fuel will produce smaller activation-energy.

Some cars are maxed at stoichiometry and nothing more can be done humanly possible beyond. Some aren't; they aren't bad systems, the objectives are just met. Tuners will exploit that variable as one means to attain their objectives. A noteable exploit is the ram-filters you see or cold-air injection certain hotrodders use. It is to maximise shoichiometry. Sometimes, fuel would have to be readjusted (depending on how wild the exploit would be).

Below are cold-airfilters. Not recommended though. I don't consider this gain except otherwise proven. Plus, all MB's come with cold airfilters as factory. You get no gain from these on MB applications.

Cruise-z:
I took out the injectors for check last weekend. Though the outcome was satisfactory, i bought four new ones because of cracks around the edges. I also cleaned the throttle body (thanks to youtube). The pictures i took are too large, will edit and upload them later. Thank you all for the contribution. No fuel odor so far and the drag is almost gone. Time to search for a garage to resolve the p1349 error code.

It is good. It's also great giving feedbacks. You will have better stoichiometric result than the partial oxidation you were encountering.

Tunarps:
Please what can you say about the GS 300 2000 model and the ES 300 2002 model. I don't see many of the ES 300 around and I love the car

Frankly, I don't know much about Lexus or Toyota. They are overrated. What I previously stated was based on the fact that Toyota at 2006 put to comprehensive production a mechanical ground-breaking feat and that drew my attention seriously. The 2006 and up is many milestones before any generation that preceded it. Meaning: the engineering core. This made it worth a trade-up of vehicle.

The generation of GS you stated is colloquially terms as "Whale." From a credible source, it break down. I can't detail anything about the ES save for the fact [that] it is a Camry on couch with exotic-suspension.

Cruise-z:
Thank you all. I had to change the engine oil and filter last Saturday. When the mechanic checked both MAF and air filter it was too dusty (road construction going on in my area). I will change the O ring this Saturday. I use mile master engine oil 5w30 SN.

I use recommended spark plug (denso sk20r11). Changed the old ones about three months ago, distance covered since then is about 3500km. I will note the idle rpm and revert, i guess its about 700 or so the last time i checked. Luckily, i have a scanner so i can erase codes myself. Where can i flush engine in Lagos using compressed air?

Gasoline is a flammable hydrocarbon. Gasoline in liquid is not the most of your problem(s). It is the vapour. The vapour and air integration in the presence of a spark is what causes [a] fire. Above all, gasoline vapours are heaver than air, thus it collects in places within the oil crankcase. A condition to warrant any spark will set a fire. Surely, the category of fire will be an inferno with a very dedicated attribute when application of water occurs. It will float over water (since it is lighter than water) and continue out of control. A spark from a spark plug is approximately 4500degF. Oil plays a role in the combustion phase. You have oil and fuel within a closed-system, with air and spark as certain/necessary variables under appropriate conditions; and nothings bothers that you are running "games." Interesting! From your admission, the stench of fuel bothered you upon unlocking the crankcase cap. Doesn't that ring a bell that trouble might be a potential? The liquid is not what you smelt but vapour. It is safe to conclude from your initial post that you have a chronic case and needs immediate attention. You can choose to listen to the fellow (no qualms intended) that told you it is normal that all cars have fuel in the crankcase. You don't need a priest to officiate in motion the statement as fact or crap. Logic has resolved that (if you lend yourself to it). When in skepticism, ponder on how dithiophosphorus (major component in oil) reacts with fuel within a given system of rapid running mechanical interactions. Take time to ask [people] how their conclusions were drawn. They shouldn't be offended if they know what they are saying.

The core-question should be how gasoline got into the crankcase. Sadly, solutions have been given without identification of a possible cause. Furthermore, how did your mechanic come to the conclusion of the air-meter being the root of the matter?

As Bomijuwon reinforced, it is your INJECTORS and not ECU, headgasket, MAF, IAC, plugs, horsepower or any direct/indirect dependencies stated. Or crankcase was fed with gas. It is also impossible to have a unified solution to the problems you have stated. Personally, I want to believe a portion of the lion-share of the issues would be your injectors. As previously stated, if the injectors are good, then the o-rings need replacement; sincerely cheap. Get a qualified mechanic to perform service. A multimeter is all that is needed to check for pulse-width; a scan-tool is useless.

Above all: For goodness sake, do not attempt eliminating any code. There are certain codes you eliminate and there are certain you NEVER eliminate. If you know what you are doing, you will NEVER need a scan-tool. I've never used a scan-tool in the approximate nine years I've worked on cars. They aren't designed as a definitive reference to diagnosis.

adejide2: I have somebody in US who promise to get me one family car with the exception of sienna because of high cost. Do you know other family car in US that is reliable and durable apart from honda odyssey that is good for nigeria road and has cheap running cost.

I will not recommend the Sienna V6 on Nigerian roads except modifications are made. I want to believe the Honda variant to the Sienna is the same philosophical (planning) embedded approach. A vehicle you cannot find the fuel to refill should not be an option unless the required modification is done. Anyone that tells you the 4-cylinder variant is underpowered should not be taken seriously. Don’t go by the kilowatt figures because you’ll be wasting your time.

Frankly, your approach to this objective (that is your inquiry) is somewhat wrong. Retracing, your inquiries will begin at the mechanic to whom will work on your choice of vehicle for the next decade. It is what he says that you will do/follow. If what you are told to get is a Mazda (for example), then that is what you will get. They are the ones that will eventually have an affair with the vehicle for the extended duration of time in ownership. I had a client mid-year; he gave his requirements and I looked at it as a bad option of a deal. My recommendations were given in response with official documents; giving no room for doubts. He did a wise thing, he consulted with his mechanics and they couldn’t sustain my recommendations and I could justify why: socio-economical factors.

You will be importing a non-tropicalised car to a non-tropicalised region. You will have trade-offs in reliability. This is due to the principles of optimizations in the overall design/product of the vehicle. In certain aspects, it may not be noticeable. In some areas, it will. Further explanation will derail the topic as it is manufacturing-biased rather than the discussion, thus leaving the thread topic void. So, the reliability gotten in non-tropicalised regions should not be expected in Nigeria. Vehicles are built to two international standards. There is a way around this [however]. In the United States, you can purchase cars for any price if time is not a factor. At a lower purchase price, the rest of the intended purchase amount should be used to do extensive service on the vehicle. Two approaches to this: a Nigerian works on it with the forecept that it’d be taken to Nigeria or a the white man is briefed that the vehicle will be taken to regions like Haiti or Jamaica. What to be done is understood and a mini-project is begun. An impedance to this will be the type of transaction with your friend. If it’s profit-oriented, cost becomes higher because of the engulfed profit. Nevertheless, over a decade period, it details the cheapest approach than plain purchase-and-shipping.

I intentionally left a lot out due to discretion. Overall, you should have an idea of what I’ve made sketchy and ponder upon it to unravel. Above all, your mechanic will have the golden-say on what you may or mayn’t get. It is their duty to maintain it for your entire duration of ownership. Never argue with them (even if you are smarter). They work on numerous cars in all kinds of state and there are certain x-factors that aren’t widely known that they encounter.

adejide2: . What are the two types and which of them is good to drive in nigeria.

I have never seen the Sharan. As a matter of fact, it was from this thread I got to know of the Sharan. The Routan is what I have seen and acquainted with. It is a Chrysler with no influence of VW in it. Due to the financially ailing corporation, VW took the tabs to alleviate the loss of investment Chrysler put into the development of the Routan. Hence, the VW badge. Chryslers are not dependable vehicles. The Routan still requires the maintenance attention of a Chrysler which certain VW owners are crossed about.

smartchoice: Sharan I think has two types...

My mistake. I mistook the Sharan for the Routan. I've never seen a Sharan.

It's the o-rings at the injectors. At service, it is advisable to test for injector pulse width and [also] fuel flow. Afterall, injector service is being performed.

If you can't get to it in the meantime, add a quart of fresh oil and park at slopes with the grill upward. It helps mitigate gas sips. Don't rush in the morning on cold-starts and avoid excessive revs. 99% of the time, it is the o-rings. Another factor could be the installation of gasoline in the oil crankcase. It's a sensitive to medium service (that's if the injectors are still good). You risk contamination or damage if due precautions are omitted when dealing with the injectors. If you had no prior experience to this and you could smell without reasonable doubt that it is gasoline, then you have a very bad leak. If minor-to-moderate, you'd have a cologne-like smell (or fragrance-like) and may need an opinion or two. The oil thinning definitely will be obvious. This is from experience.


By the way, a scan tool is not needed. A multimeter is needed for the test stated above. The rings are cheap.

Cruise-z:
when you pull out engine oil dip stick and the faint smell of fuel hits your nostrils, what could be responsible? Car is 02 Toyota Camry 2AFE engine. Fuel consumption increased and the car drags when accelerating. Scan picked one code P1349.

That's not faint. If you could tell it was fuel from your description, then it's not faint. You have a serious leak. Early/Mild leaks will be detected by a trained nose (based on skepticism) or oil analysis (after an oil change). Sometimes, it is as a result of excessive stop-and-go traffic coupled with extended interval drainage. In this case, oil [just] needs to be reinstalled. If the situation happens to be a dead give-away as yours, then mechanical service is needed. The symptoms stated will be eroded when service is complete (provided the problem is encompassed around this topic).

I will assume you meant "dependability" and tolerance for abuse (omit an interval point in maintenance). Ironically, the answer from the menu you presented is the Corolla. You can run the Corolla to the "ground" but the impending risk of purchasing a deferred-maintained one is higher. I did not consider the Mazda because I don't know of it and [maybe] never seen it. Never heard of Picnic.

lacasa: Nice thread. Saw a Gs350 zoom past me at 100km + on thee highway n since that day 've bn thinkin of goin d Lexus way.

Is that what motivated you?

lacasa: Wat can u tell me abt the GS models

To answer your question: it's Toyota's technological pinnacle in road-going production. Hence the name, "Grand Sport" (GS). It's configuration is for refined performance (silk) and not brutal/ish unlike its first ancestor. Don't get it wrong, Toyota quintessentially hooked it and it becomes a problem for certain people. You either like it or you don't. It is a car you have to test-drive to determine if you will like it or not (all Lexus'). It's remote-like as you ply. While this is cherished by some, this is repelled by some (for lack of a better word). It is also dependable.

Pinnacle: what about the LS? The LS has a bias in its design-planning. The GS is an all-rounder in attributes as it originally was engineered for performance-in-comfort (now it's more comfort-in-performance). With the "pinnacle" reference, I'm only repeating what Toyota stated many years ago as "pinnacle of their technological advancement." So, a lot more engineering details reflects upon the GS than the LS. For example: the current iteration was driven in its pre-production phase an equivalent of 26-times the earth's distance to get that the exact threshold of kinematic tune in response and performance marinated in sheer comfort. Some serious field-analysis-test.

ziccoit: ^^^ @Trac, if you don't live in Nigeria; you would not understand how difficult some things are. In a whole state you may not find a single qualify mechanic/auto technician that knows his job.
Look, some things are just unavailable and there is nothing you could do about that. In this case, would you stop using cars because the environment is not enabling? Nigeria is unlike UK or USA where good mechanics abound. Here, they are so scarce especially outside the big cities (Lagos, Port, Abuja)

I understand your perspective; troubleshooting laws cannot be negated due to geographical constraints. It is one of the facts of life.

There are elements of truth in what you have stated; a sizable chunk I find disingenuous. A mechanic true to his salt with a number of years in experience is a worthy mechanic. The measure to which mechanic are judged in terms of competence (of Nigerians relatiing to Nigerian mechanics) is sheer perception. A year's worth of experience is 1920_hours@40_hours. Four years would be 1920*4_hours@40hours; literally 7680 hours of professional experience: diagnosing, loosing and tightening bolts. That is not a joke. The basic and intermediate services can at least be done. A friend of mine on two occasion travelled 300 miles to have his vehicle serviced; on a Honda. With the amount of money to be spent, the journey was an investment. It is everywhere. It is not exclusive to Nigeria.

// The inept and fraudulent mechanics were not factored. That needs no explanation.

dsunmade:
_{Thanks. I replaced the plugs with OEM manual prescribed plugs about 2 months ago after gapping them and noticed an improvement in the working of the vehicle. The car doesn't consume oil.} The smoke is usually colorless but occasionally white on revving.

Smoke: a visible suspension of carbon or other particles in the air, typically one emitted from a burning substance.
————— Concise Oxford English Dictionary 12E

A concise explanation: you have compromised "engine-efficiency", thus leading to diminished "mechanical-advantage." If unclear, break the epithets with a dictionary. Your problem is combustion related and it could be several factors based on how it is "looped." I'll recommend you leave the vehicle to the hands of one that knows his expertise. Complicating things will only cost you. Your issue did not just start, it compounded over several months. It's a basic repair and shouldn't cost much; don't plan going cheap, lest you fall into the snare of bad mechanics. Very little can be done via NL; physical interaction is needed (no trial-by-error). This is the simplest approach for you. There is also a possibility that repair-visitation will be more than once; that is follow-up. Reason beyond "microwave" solutions and view my perspective; it's not instant satisfaction but a thorough solution.

When you are done completing repairs, update the thread so that closure can be attained.

IdaraCHODB:

He needs a mechanic that is educated, not someone who knows how to fix a car but does not know the theory of how cars work or failing that someone who will listen to him as he suggests what to do based on the information provided here

While what you have stated is fact, another consideration is if the poster is willing to pay the higher price associated for guaranteed service. This is the problem I have gotten to observe repeatedly from nairalanders and Nigerians in real-world. Nigerians are always for the bargain. So, they cling to Nigerian mechanics and get all services at unfair bargains. I mean perpertually. The mechanic - on the other hand - is shrunk; for profit has been marginalised and often motivated to be fair and not be optimum.

Theories of how cars work can only be attained via the discipline of Mechanical Engineering or it's specific derivatives. It is deeper than what many can dedicate to. Many that work on cars don't have this. It will be unfair to expect this of the larger percentage of Nigerian mechanics. The ones with such (scientific) background charge a lot of money for their services because they guarantee their work. Nigerians tend to avoid those. They'd rather get the result of the diagnosis and opt to carry out the repairs at their own convenience.

9icetoo: Okay, so heres my two cents. I have read somewhere on this thread that efi systems have something called a compensator on them that comes on when an extra load like an ac is put on the engine. This compensator works with the maf i suppose. Supposing your maf isnt really telling the ecu the truth, this compensator might not work properly hence the drag on your engine. In my recent post i wrote about my recent tuneup which involved cleaning out my maf and air cleaner. Guess what, it worked a treat by treating this same symptom u r complaining of. Since ur ac is stock, i believe ur engine should be able to handle its load without a noticeable drop in power. try cleaning ur maf, throttle body and air cleaner. It just might work.

What's stated might mitigate the symptom (effect). It is not a root-solution. The one to whom the vehicle will be given to carry out diagnoses will comprehensively "detail" the vehicle for root-cause-effects and root-cause-failures. In engineering, faults are never resolved from effects (symptoms as thread implies) and then worked upon. You end with a system that is categorised as "undependable." In systems, all problems (always) are tree-like. It is called the "fault-tree" (or deductive) and an investigation into what effects have been conjured is a fault-tree diagnosis (or deductive-diagnosis). This is a reflection to the logic that problems are always tree-like. The objective is for the root-cause/s, so that failures are completely eliminated (eradicated to prevent future occurrences) and possible preventions made. As aforestated, it requires understanding and it is always comprehensive. Sometimes, fate could have an effect to be an isolated issue; thus a surface problem with no faulty associated dependencies. Nevertheless, proper investigation is never usurped because this fact comes as conclusion after all deductions have been made. A car serviced occasionally outside of this standard approach is a "partially-functional" vehicle (no matter how well it rides). This is because there will be several unresolved root-issues that are subservient to normal vehicle operation; till ultimate failure occurs.

dsunmade: That's my problem. Where to get someone who really knows how cars work and not some technician who doesn't know the underlying principles of what he does.

On scale, a basic repair is needed. It's not a big issue; although you omitted to state other effects that you are experiencing. One note of caution to you: don't go cheap. Get a reputable person and pay the cost associated for the proper workmanship. You should also get a guarantee for the service done. A good mechanic will not propose revisions (part revisions) that are questionable. If failed Toyota parts are identified, the same should be fitted in replacement or a genuine revision. Doing otherwise will be a tradeoff from dependability in favour of uncertainty. Logic will bear me witness.

Compressor systems take an average of 12kW (16 horsepower). It is a factored design consideration and should not be noticed during operation. Engine - to begin with - is at poor state of health. A tune-up is needed. It could be anything (a simple task that mayn't take a minute to a job that takes a few hours). That is why there is appreciable-loss in performance during operation. Have a mechanic diagnose it. The root-cause(s) is what he will discover and take necessary measures to remediate it.