au.hanson:
Trac,

Actually I shouldn’t have responded to this in order not to be in the same shoe with you, but for your tactful campaign for discrimination indicative in your tone of writing lately, which further portrays the stuff you are made off. One would have thought that you have repented of your overzealous self innuendo but the reverse is the case.

I don’t hate you, neither does anyone else does, infact I loved you contrary to your propounded fallacy stemmed from your very little conscience as you have failed to acknowledge the very fact that respect is reciprocal. Go through your write ups from the very beginning in this forum and see the number of persons you have perpetually abashed. I don’t know what you stand to gain for so doing ? I have swallowed It from you on several occasions because of the spirit of sportsmanship and as a manager that knows how to deal with the crowd of varied background, but yours is unbecoming. If you took advantage of people’s humility in trying to accommodate every other person’s opinion with respect then you had better do some course in behavioral mannerism which is so much lacking in your mannerism of approach geared at other people’s opinion. Maybe I should educate your mind frame on how to conduct yourself in public manners: If you had to criticize, of which there’s nothing wrong about doing that, then chose your words constructively without insulting someone, be objective , then you’ll gain more respect. Respect like I said is reciprocal. Then there would have been no need soliciting for campaign managers to further paint the wrong image of the forum as you are trying to do; I for one, I would even make you feel good and bigger than you are just to encourage you, but the reverse is the contrary.

In a situation where your overzealous tatamounting self gratification for some vague glory begins to knock down on people as if they are some piece of rubbish, then expect the worse. I manage a sizeable group of persons but I serve them, I understand their differences in background, and weakness and conduct myself in like manners to accommodate all of them so that we may achieve our goals, differences and experience notwithstanding. I can flog you and still buy you a beer at the same time even though I don’t drink one.

I know this may be very hard for you to get , because it is alien in your dictionary. I won’t speak on this again, neither would I respond to any gorilla write up from you.

Au.Hansen, lets move on. This is getting no where and I've buried it. Negate what I've shouldered against you. Always remember, it is the writings you critique, not the person. Two years ago, I disclosed on this thread with MB's published article why the fluid you are defending should not be used and the associated failures that was rampant. Temperature isn't an attribute to determine coolant specifications. I did not write it. MB did! I just reinforced it. You can call me all you want. It doesn't change anything. That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Before you condemn another person as misleading, misguided and conning, think deeper. That is rude. That is what started this. I did not respond to you like that. With all the claim you've made, you omitted yourself. Think about your approach. I never insult anyone; not even in the real world. I'm a quiet person and mind my business. I motivate people in the real world as well.

Let's move ahead off this. It's one large child's play. It isn't stupid for me being meek but there are demerits not being so; plus this is the internet: anything goes. We should at least be able to get along. Chill! As SmartChoice says: life goes on.

Bossforeva: Brethren i beg ur pardon 4 not yet uploading a better pics.
As am yet to get some funds required for the Engine Job and some mechanical systems,i google searched for some W201s that were a lil bit modified. I found a perfect website for this @
http://www.benztuning.com/
so what am gonna copy from this, is just the front grille and am painting it that way; the front and rear bumbers,side skirts and side mirrors...am not going with the black rims.i may not also go with the colour..Also am kinda confused with all this crystal headlights most of them i've seen in nigeria,i find them fading away so easily that i wonder whether nigeria sun should be blamed for this.the way this older benz with clear crystal headlights fades am thinking of sticking with Original W201 glass headlights...
I've also noticed that most toyota's,honda's and some other cars nissan not withstanding has thier headlights fading like mad.

I will exercise common sense that you don't anticipate carrying out the job (implying do-it-yourself). With appropriate funds, the vehicle should be back to its stable in 14 - 30 days. The good thing is labour in Nigeria is cheap.

Pay extreme attention to structural members. Hidden rust cannot be overlooked. Vulcanised rubber components will have to be replaced (even if they look good; of which I doubt). Seals also!

The anodised trims around the car was done with a very special process that will make it almost impossible to completely restore. That is eliminating the oxidation. This is probably the biggest headache if you intend to restore to pristine look. I won’t recommend you paint over it. Respecting generational traits is part of the reasons why such a dedicated decision has been made.

Suspension: Limited funds was initially stated as constraint. This, I considered in reasoning with you. Engine work could be deferred while limited resources is paid to the suspension. The is more rewarding and appreciation would be very justified. Nevertheless, whatever sound judgement is, proceed with.

Good you are sticking to the headlights. In all your proceedings, you must ensure the value of the vehicle is not degraded. Those (from the gold pictures) headlights are gimmicks. Notice how ricey they are, plus it isn’t built to a standard. Optics are very poor in output and exarcebated with arc bulbs. Function prevails over form.

I am not sure about the moldings. I wouldn’t go there if I were you. Suspension - no doubt - may have been revised. It’s unclear what the purpose of the vehicle is. Those mirrors don’t do justice to the vehicle. With the current form, I wonder how the right mirror looks. Headlight appears to have lashes; giving it the C-Class look.

Overall, preserving retro traits is essential.

I just observed from the picture that there aren’t anodised trims around the door panels of the vehicle.

Eyop: @ Trac we are here to learn because that's the reason we all are here to gather some experience and soonest i will be purchasing a C class because that has always been my choice either the 2005 or the 2006. Please respond to Emperoh so myself can as well learn from your comments. Thank you.

It is true [that] we are all here to learn. However, that philosophy has been compromised - at least for the moment - the core purpose of the thread has been exploited for selfish recognition and broadcast.

Nevertheless, if you have concerns about the model in question, start from the first page - of this thread - through to the current and read applicable comments. A faint overview will be [realistically] sufficient. How it fares well within the Nigerian environment should be grand-concern. This thread is more than 2 years old. This question isn't new.

KA24DETT:

They can calculate how long their product will last . Never can they calculate what the used price will be . The market forces will determine that .
Its a tough economy like you said so everyone is trying to survive. I do not think the core of mercedes buyers really care about reliability . Most Mercedes in North america are leased anyways. The trick is to design the product to last up till the end of your warranty

Core Mercedes buyers do not buy Benzes for social status. They buy it for life. They never intend to buy another car for life. Some with intent to pass it on to the next generation. Mercedes lost those customers. Same with Volvos.

Emperoh: @Trac,

What are your thoughts to my query?

With all due respect, I won't snatch this from Au.Hansen. It will only make me childish and the main point will never be addressed to avoid further occurrences. I'll humbly take the comments as being egotistical plus the name-calls and move on. Being thread-territorial must indeed be fulfilling.

KA24DETT:

I didn't meant Mercedes makes money off "used cars". Rather, what I meant is the perception from the used car buyer. A used car buyer would be more inclined to buy a new Mercedes if he his experience with his old Mercedes is good.
If the experience is bad, he would swear off the brand.
A well maintained Mercedes, no matter if you have the service record and all that WIlL NOT sell more than a comparable Lexus. (comparing Lexus Ls vs S class with same equipment ). That's the power of reliability .
Am talking about North America market.
Not sure about European market though.

The price sinks because of 1) user reported problems 2) price of replacement parts 3) past history .etc
The most important factor is "past history of reliability". That's explains why Lexus will still command more money in the used car market. There is no formula or calculations about it
American cars and Hyundai are comparably with Japanese with reliability but because of their past history of reliability issues , it will take YEARS before it starts reflecting in the used car market.
I remember when Hyundai and Mitsubishi was hammered by reliability problems and their used car values dropped. Mitsubishi responded by offering 10yrs power train warranty and Hyundai was offering 6yrs warranty . The market norm is 3yrs/60,000 km warranty which ever comes first.

Mercedes will come up but it will be a while before their used prices reflect that . Till then, Lexus will still be schooling them.
In the used car market , buyer perception is everything. Pontiac vibe and Toyota matrix are made in the same plant side by side with same parts but the Pontiac vibe will sell up to $3,000 less in the used car market .

Imagine buying a new Mercedes S class AMG for $130,000 and 3 yrs later, it's worth $70,000 and you will still have problems selling it . Lexus LS $85,000 new and 3yrs later, you will get $60,000 for it .
There is no calculation to justify that drop in price .

I did not refer to the contemporary Benzes. I referred to the pre-contemporary models. The word you used was reliability. Those were not reliable, they were durable. Two engineering approaches. An owner will not release a well-maintained and excellent conditioned Benz at market value.

KA24DETT: The price sinks because of 1) user reported problems 2) price of replacement parts 3) past history .etc
The most important factor is "past history of reliability". That's explains why Lexus will still command more money in the used car market. There is no formula or calculations about it
American cars and Hyundai are comparably with Japanese with reliability but because of their past history of reliability issues , it will take YEARS before it starts reflecting in the used car market.

Some truth to what you have listed above, there is still a method of calculating it; lest anything goes (even lobbying). Machines are calculated over a period of time as standard (usually 7 years) with other variables considered along with calculated wear and operations. Engineering economics is not my strength. There are certain milestones considered. The same is applied in automotive but to an applied approach. There has to be a standard to all complies to.

----
Mercedes has been over-designing. They aren't just over-engineering. Nothing really will change till the world's economy changes. That is when the money will be worth their products. Designing a deliberate product and deciding over what the life-cycle will be is intentional. The constraint is usually the money into production and return-customers.

Siena: Personally, I don't think Car Talk needs an extra moderator, things are fine the way they are.

But that's just me.

That depends on defining the variable you termed as "things."

Truly, there are certain things that are not "proper" but we deal with them as though its of no concern because it is atypical of the Nigerian way of life. Disorganisation!


@ Concerned

This is nothing against Ikenna neither will I buff his irreconcilable aspect but there is no way to avoid this. So, I am not being biased neither are there reserved feelings.

It is difficult to say Car-Talk isn't clumsy. At the very moment, 72 sub-portal pages are present. In a month, it is unpractical to expect the number to be at 80. There is nothing wrong with the numbers being as high as mentioned but what are the statistics? A sizable portion are:

Unanswered/isolated: (https://www.nairaland.com/1375279/ford-freestyle-how-good-it).
Another portion, stale: (https://www.nairaland.com/876165/pls-advice)
Misplaced: (https://www.nairaland.com/589699/information-right-handed-hummer-hiace)
Adverts: (https://www.nairaland.com/510058/nigeria-car-manufacturer-innoson-official)
Plain repetition: (https://www.nairaland.com/553783/4cylinder-6cylinder-what-choice-car)

-- the list goes on. The links - save for the first - are old links.

I don't know the load to bear as administrator neither do I suspect it as a light thing. I believe Ikenna is doing his role within his very means. There are rooms for improvement. This also is too much for one person. From my understanding of the role of administrators, unanswered and isolated threads are usually answered by the administrator in conclusive narratives with the thread being closed/locked afterwards. Roughly about three days. Stale threads are to be deleted. It serves no purpose. The misplaced reference is where I have the biggest problem relative to this portal (i.e. Car-Talk). It is no different from Auto-Forum. No clear objectives have been defined. There are threads that are nothing but subtle advertisements. The integration is almost seamless between both portals. That leaves us with the fact that we are just deceiving ourselves. The adverts policy is not enforced. The plain repetition of thread topic cannot be denied.

Making organisation of this is too much for one person. Some threads go as long as 80 pages. This renders the valuable information in progressively-mid pages useless.

Maybe it's just me. On the other hand, I am sure others feel the same.

KA24DETT: Back to the topic.
I will try to explain more about the resale value from a North american point of view. Please feel free to add or subtract from my analysis .

1. American cars have bad resale value because of RELIABILITY problems and quality. In the early 90s, cost cutting was high, labour costs and layoffs was the driving theme. Chrysler was using plastics in everything. Sitting in a chrysler was like sitting at toys r us. Hard, dark plastics everywhere. Same goes as ford and the general (GM).Head gasket failure in GM northstar engine, Ford 4 banger with broken pistons, chrysler 2.7 with bad oil flow design, bad suspension designs. Reliability suffered and people took their money to the japanese .
2. Rental returns Most of the rental fleet of Avis, National, enterprise are American cars. Most rental companies change their fleet every year or 2. This flooded the Used car market and drove down prices.

German . Mercedes benz in the quest to increase market share in Northamerica has to sell more cars. Mercedez benz has a car for every buyer. New money- C class. Old money - S class. Mad money - G wagon. Psychotic speed demon with class - S class AMG. Wife - ML class.
For every buyer out there, mercedes has a product for you.
In the quest for profit, Quality suffered in the mid 90s. Ranging from suspension problems to electrical problems . When CEO Dieter Zetsche took the helm at Mercedes-Benz, he says "the quality is lousy, the design is troubling". He followed this with some changes like slashing profit forecast and re investing the money into RnD. Mercedes benz Juergen Hubbert, board member responsible for Mercedes-Benz and Smart also said "We are working like hell to correct the glitches that have plagued the electronic control systems in Mercedes-Benz vehicles. We have to learn the right way to organise electronics and have the same reliability standards." Mercedes benz is a huge brand, no other automaker would be at the bottom of JD power and associates in reliability for years and stilll be moving products. Am pretty sure their quality has improved from yesteryears but only time will tell. For now, you can still pick up a 3-5yr old E class for the price of a New Camry and after 10 years, the camry will be worth more than the E class.. Thats the Power of reliability in the used car world


Good thing about this situation is that people who wouldnt afford a luxury car can buy a used one. If their purchase tend to be reliable against norms, they will be more inclined to buy a new mercedes. This brings more business to Mercedes.
On the downside, if the purchase turn out to be a failure, they will not buy any more mercedes and will scream from the roof top to their friends, family, mother , father that noone should buy mercedes. This perception will further reduce sales for mercedes. You know what they say, 'Success has more friends but failure is an orphan"

You are partially correct. The American is spot-on but incomplete. You did not add that the technologies used are old plus the magic word: profit. Ironically, GM happens to be one of the world's sophisticated manufacturers when it comes to research-and-development. You wouldn't know this except you are affiliated with the automotive industry. Yet it is difficult to prove.

However, your reference to Benz is slightly off and anecdotal. Over-engineering is ridiculously expensive and time consuming. Field-Analysis-Tests (F.A.T) with research took years, sometimes spanning over a decade-and-a-half. For this approach, a large "design-space" signified the core with unlimited money and understanding. They lived to what the slogan was and the sole reason why few models spanned the century. This philosophy is what attracted me to Mercedes in the 90's. To keep this within the discussion as Car-Talk, certain key-points will be omitted. By the 90's, the tide had turned beyond their control. In 1993, it was disclosed over-engineering will stop and the obvious reasons were used to buttress the fact. Certain models were still in production. The C Class was introduced as the signature to seal this new philosophy. In 1999, the ritual was done to bury the overall century of unparallelled engineering. The models today, A, B, C (and I can't think of another) are for the sole reason of funding research and development. It is not to gain market share but cash-flow for costs. Mercedes core engineering (except for the 2007 and onward C Classes) are absent in these models. No car manufacturer spends money per day as Mercedes does in the world to date. 1995 - 1996 was when MB joined the NYSE via the Chrysler merging. The conspiracy theories can begin from there.

The answer to this thread is exceedingly dynamic. A long thread cannot comprehensively answer this. In the world today, Japanese cars are the reliable cars. The Koreans are not recognised for such. Toyota was held as the standard but was leveraged during the 2009 scandal that tainted the image perpetually. Nevertheless, it is the industry standard the world follows now (and that is in all sects, not just automotive).

I got certified in designing automotive parts in 2008 with the most advanced solution-tool used in the industry. The perception the layman does not understand is that the life of a product is determined from the very beginning. It was disturbing when I got to discover this in one of the professional trainings attended in 2006 and have thought differently since then. There are certain constraints though. A huge constraint is the cost followed by material selection. In some cases, it is cash-flow and the necessity to remain in business. If you think manufacturers cannot design a vehicle/product and attain at least reliability status, then a lot is yet to be learnt. Sometimes, during the design-review, your superiors can tell you that it is too expensive and revisions need to be made (especially when cost of manufacturing is affected). Another tactic is to design the product well but the manufacturing process shaves some dependability off it, thus affecting the overall life-cycle. This is an area MB cut corners in. Time exposed the 1996 E Class. There's a lot more to that chapter but unnecessary.

The Japanese have cheap labour and can afford to price their vehicles which-ever-way they deem fit. Labour is not cheap in Europe. The Europeans are way advanced in mechanics than any race in the world. It is a strong fact that cannot be debunked. Yes, today's European systems are complex. The truth is that it can still be engineered to work problem-free but they wouldn't. The market will not pay the hefty prices associated. In the 70's and 80's, a base MB (E-Class) cost the price of a home in the United States. Forty years later, the base E is still pegged at $46,000; plus it is loaded with necessary gizmos (including a cup holder). Common sense requires an explanation. $46,000 in 1980's rate to today's adjusted inflation is almost $90,000. This is still the price of a home in certain parts of the United States. How do we explain the difference in the money shaved plus the additional systems that evolved over time? Figure that! The Japanese are no saints. Discussing theirs is another episode and Honda is the perfect scape goat in this reference. This isn't to say there aren't others, it's just what I happen to discover. In my humble opinion, I consider the approach worse.

KA24DETT: Good thing about this situation is that people who wouldnt afford a luxury car can buy a used one. If their purchase tend to be reliable against norms, they will be more inclined to buy a new mercedes. This brings more business to Mercedes.
On the downside, if the purchase turn out to be a failure, they will not buy any more mercedes and will scream from the roof top to their friends, family, mother , father that noone should buy mercedes. This perception will further reduce sales for mercedes. You know what they say, 'Success has more friends but failure is an orphan"

Manufacturers do not make money off used cars. Money is only made off new cars. The Germans are not stupid. The resale value does not bother them. Those that could not afford it when new would realise that after the used-purchase, they cannot afford the up-keep. Money would then be made off parts and misc. services. The low-end models are not for your experience, it is to keep the money-vault lubricated.

Why the prices sink is another subject matter. It is calculated. I can't remember what it is called and the associated variables used. I'll have to check my school notes. It also doesn't have to be followed. A well acknowledged fact is this: a well maintained Mercedes Benz will never sell for the resale value. It will always be higher, thus rendering the book value ratings useless. I don't mean these new ones.

Cyberknight:

Herd mentality would be a better word to describe the utter stupidities that are retailed around.

This is NOT herd mentality nor stupidity as emphasised. Most subscribe to "herd mentality." The worst are those that claim they don't. This fellow has been a victim. In as much as I would say he architected his problem[s] by the initial purchase of the van, he was converted as a platform for the continuity of this racket. I try to avoid professional references, one/two of the several pillars (planning phase) in design engineering is social factors and economical factors when it comes to product development. It is not negotiable. Other factors are thus engineered around the values/data of these constraints. The Dodge ought not to be in Nigeria to begin with. It cannot survive there without associating some extra expenses. It was built around the mentality of the people it would be marketed to. It's an expensive van to tune-up with weak reliability over time and weak resale. People get rid of it when repairs are in close succession. Usually expensive! These vehicles are also leased to minimise financial loses "accrued" in value-loss.

Every mechanic - worth his salt - should be able to do a transplant and be willing to devote support over a period of time. If all went right, there would be no complaint. Sadly, this is not the case. Some of the complaints Nigerians claim and the conclusions Nigerian mechanics respond-with are genuine. The ones that fail to discern deeply are yet to understand from certain realistic perspective. Many of these "stories" will not perpertuate itself if everyone decides to reason by themselves and evaluate the costs. Thirty minutes of NL's Car-Talk bears evidence to the fact that unaccounted failure rates and repair/failure frequencies are high. Has anyone done some deductive reasoning? It's eithers cats are failing, engine is knocking, fuel pump needs replacement, ECU swaps pending, engine swap is due, active suspension malfunction, transmission issues, -- _____ and the list goes on.

Has anyone concluded to ask "why"? As far as I know, this trend has been since the 90's.

There is a reason for the word "specification." It's a terminology that speaks for itself and also passes judgement. For those that still play the "mechanic-card" in 2013 [they] should come to terms that it has been "played-out." Mechanics don't come knocking on your doors to perform services. They do not use the vehicles services. You take it to them. It still defaults to the owner. How would one prove that in a civilised country of half-a-century=plus (50+ years), not a single person is capable of resolving abnormalities?

There are lessons to learn from this. A lot! If all is broken into segments for analysis, many Nigerians will - for the first time - see the true picture.

If I am not understood, then you need not worry. Nothing will do.

Au.Hansen,

I'm going to use - for the first time - a kind of analogy that it uncommon of me. Dogs and cats are not the same neither can they be mistaken for another. They are both land beasts in human categories. Taking dogs into consideration, there are many sub-family in the doggie-tree. Yet dogs, it is impractical to term them as unique. The shepherd dog is not the German-shepherd. A Yorkshire-terrier no matter how hard it tries will never be a poodle. The same goes for cats. A leopard is not a snow-leopard. The differences lie in genetics and this manipulates their outward traits.

This principle can be applied to lubrication; crankcase oil and antifreeze (in likeness to dogs and cats). They are both lubricants but different. Within the family of antifreeze, you have the sub-family. They aren't all the same. The characteristics are based on the intended application to which it will be used in. Total coolants have silicates in them. While this is beneficial to certain cars (due to the way the system was designed and engineered to function), it is detrimental to a lot of cars. A few cars to be precise: Benz (obviously), BMW, Toyota, Volvo, Audi (totally unforgiving) etc. In the Merc system, the genuine fluid is designed to lubricate the concerned areas in all conditions. It is also a hybrid fluid. Silicate in such an application will default to the mechanism of destruction that we understand as wear. This type of wear will be executed via the destructive category called "erosion." In simplicity, you are fine-sandblasting (sandpapering) your cooling system rather than lubricating.

This isn't truly noticeable in your generation because engine and transmission was over-engineered. This will not excuse the appropriate mechanisms of destruction. It will only take longer for the damage to be thorough to require replacement. On post models, the leniency is absent and lessons are learnt quickly after expensive repairs are done. A thread member disclosed how such messed his vehicle up. He ran his vehicle on distilled water ever since and he stated he had no problems afterwards. Though, this isn't the way to go, convincing him would require more. Toyotas: as economical as they are cannot use the fluid stated. They run on their hybrid antifreeze.

Have you wondered why there are mixed-emotions on NL considering the use of coolants? Though most are of ignorance, there might be some truth to some of them.

This is a racket; isn't it?

From what I can logically deduct, that engine must have been shelved and may be used for another person. The bastardisation is not the main factor but the forced unneeded labour and the profit earned. This case may not have been the first string. Several owners may have fallen to this and the trend continues.

My advise to you is to get another vehicle. Evaluate your loss and consider the long-run. I wouldn't pay - if I were you - a cent towards such labour (corrective). Neither can I trust the result afterwards. I have a feeling that there is more to what's been done than disclosed. It would have been cheaper to get an mechanic with expensive rates than this "episode." Anyway, lesson(s) learnt! I can imagine the downtime and culprits will not be held accountable for their deeds. Disturbingly brilliant indeed. Very brilliant!


All the best as you debate a conclusion.

jahjehova: Pls house, other than Mobil 1, is there any
other engine oil that will not be sending
me to nechanic for servicing every 2-3
months?
My temp guage reads above 80°c in the city
and drops to 80° when travelling. Is that
safe? If no, whats your diagnosis

I posted this on the benz thread. No replies yet. Hoping to get one here ASAP

The information you have disclosed is very limited and impossible to render a finite conclusion that will be spot-on. This is also my first interface with you (I believe).

Your specification is somewhat normal but I don't have enough information to give you a diagnose. To avoid misinformation, evaluate your readings with more attention and disclose your findings.

There are two possible scenarios. I want to be sure I know what I am responding to. In the meantime, don't alter anything. What's your vehicle?

The oil to use is SAE 0w-40, European Formulation. This is also critical. There are about one or two 0w-30's approved by MB but I doubt if they are sold in Nigeria. I don't remember the names (just the brand) but I can make reference (if need be). Those brands perform exactly as MB's 40-weight specification. Don't pour any oil because it states motor-oil. What specification do you have currently installed? I have discussed about lubrication earlier this year. You might want to acquaint yourself thereof.

Gee2728: @Trac, if I may ask is using mobil 1 fully synthetic on a W202 engine an over-kill. I do so cos I want to get the issue of regular service out of the way and cos I travel a lot.

It is not an over-kill. It is cheapest in this way. The oil is engineered for extended oil-drain interval. Due to congestion in Nigeria (Lagos to be precise) and the disturbing intensity of traffic, I'll recommend using the oil for 12 months - 12,000 miles with the Bosch filter. In the case where the oil happens to be dirty, the reinstall session should be used for a short interval. In other words, if you go for a drain and the oil turns out dirty or blackened, the next M1 installation should be run for a short period; maybe 6 months. The following can be 12 months. Use proper discernment.

aikerism: Trac,
Thank you for the response... The part above made me wonder if I am actually doing more harm to my engine than I already know... So I took your advice to do a lil soul searching and research, I must confess that what you say is true...

1st off, I have a lot of documentation that came with the car but because they are all written in German, I don't always look at them but I did today and saw a lot...
I noticed a booklet that is used to record the different times the car was brought in for servicing, the date, the oil used and the odometer reading...

The pages that covers 30,867 km in 1997 to 109,029 km in 2003 are still intact... And truly they were using a minimum of 0W-40 and maximum of 5W-40 undecided

So, you have deeper convictions and you made me stress what shouldn't have been necessary. Not fair! Plus, your "brilliant" recommendation about XHP It's all good.

The booklet is called "Service History Log" book. The vehicle was services by the previous owner at a German Authorised Mercedes Benz dealership. SAE 0w-40 Mobil 1 European Formulation was the specification used; which is what the factory operational manual explicitly states. This was followed religiously according to what you have presented.

Specification 0w-40, 5w-40 and 10w-40 are one standard. The Xw is required during startup and cancels out. It is cold start specification and flow characteristic. The 40 weight is what matters. The 20w-50 is just pitiful and unacceptable. It doesn't flow well as you start, you get very limited protection as the temperature reaches certain certain aspects pf the "spectra" and as the oil reaches 100degC, oil is too thick and protection is marginalised. Certain mating elements are inadequately lubricated due to tight precisions. You will also have drag relative to mechanical components because of the weight. What your greatest risk was damaging your bearings at cold-start.

Keep in mind, aerospace standards were factored into the design and production of the engines of this generation. That is the highest precision you can ever get. The demand to get everything correct should be comprehensive. At least, for the engine and transmission.

aikerism: So I went back to my trunk to inspect the container of the Mobil XHP I used last month and I saw that its truly 20W-50...

Hmmmmmm, buh all seemed to be in order... OMG... My Baby!!! I have been giving her food for thundra and Caterpillar...

You wonder why there are so many engine failures or engine swaps in Nigeria (all cars). I doubt if you truly know how the car truly runs. When the rights specs are installed, then you can conclude if it ran right or not. You shouldn't be depressing (noticeably travel) the throttle to maintain constant velocity. It should be feathered (very mild mass/pressure). Depress to accelerate, feather to maintain velocity. Overall, car should not feel heavy to your foot (even though it is heavy).

aikerism:
Thanks Uncle Gee, the interior is why I "gbadun" the ride Wella... Yes I guess you are on point... I will continue with my Oil 101 lectures and by the end of the semester (though ASSU is on strike) I will find the best oil for me...

The best oil is Mobil 1 for your vehicle. Somewhere in this thread, I detailed the engine lubrication.

Best:

P.U.S.H:
I know that there is no automobile viod of mechanical and electrical problems. At least I have had a large share of it with the japanese! My main concern why I made this post was to seek opinions on which German car 2006 models, that has miminal problems that does cost much as buying a smaller Japanese car. I have made a review on the 2006 ml350 and it doesn't seem to have any complainants apart from a minor engine something something! I don't know! I have also reviewed 2007 c350, apart from the non-spacious back seats. There are no major issues. I will choose the ml over the c class because it is an suv. But I want to know if anyone knows about the engine issue. I am also opened to suggestions of any other german.

You can take what I will disclose momentarily or trash it. A Japanese car should take you about a decade without replacing a single part, save for wear items. The estimation will diminish if mileage becomes excessive. This is how they run in the west. Having electrical problems in a Japanese car sounds weird. This excludes Nissan and a few others that I don't know. The Japanese are good in electronics (especially control-systems) and their mechanical interaction of bodies is not ground-breaking. This is why they are expensive to purchase used or higher retail in sales value. Benzes are cheap [used]. I came across an S550 last year for $30,000. There were E Classes more expensive. Nevertheless, all fed-back disappointing resale prices. Many upgrade from their Japanese luxury cars to European and come to the harsh realisations that is expected of these Euro models.

The secret is in the way it is done. This is why the world is following the way Toyota does its manufacturing and ideologies. However, if you maintain a Japanese car the way you like, it will not endure as designed. Indians don't like to spend money on cars. Many (from observation) drive Camry's, Corollas and the other major Japanese brands.

dgitrader: @trac
99% is actually extreme, u r correct. but outside the big cities of abuja,lagos,ph, kd and co... thats the nearest figure, especially on auto-electronics of modern german cars. Good mechanics conversant with latest technologies are very rear. the opel Expert i patronize in jos gets regularly gets cars towed to him, from states as far as sokoto , jigawa and adamawa, all because of electrical complications. this shouldnt be the case! thats my point

op, get ur german machine oh, but take note... as a ''novice", you should be ready for the very few "auto authorities"... "They
have bills and family to feed.
They have less repairs. These
mechanics should be
encouraged/patronised".

Quote:

"Good mechanics "conversant" with latest technologies are very rear"
----- There is truth to that. Above all, you can't blame the rest that fall short to the above quote.

Many cars today are nothing but "operations." I am not sure if word "operations" is appropriately used or relatively conveyed. Couple with that, I have Benz in my thoughts as I type. A lot of these cars are to be fixed by engineers. The role of an engineer is not the role of a mechanic. A mechanic to a degree can "think" and make system-wide changes on a limited "scale." He is to follow technical specifications strictly and dynamically use his expertise to resolve complex problems. An engineer is one that can think and interpret what the manufacturer had in mind during construction. He can also make system-wide-changes to suit designated purposes. I don't mean replacing parts and just putting anything without logical discernment governed by precepts; that is being a petrol-head. This is because he is sound in the appropriate science and the application thereof is used to solve technical problems. The level of discernment differs. From my personal experience, electrical engineers in this field tend to solve technical matters relative to electro-mechanical functions with fewer remedials. This is my personal experience.

Nigerians have very smart citizens. They [just] aren't ending up in automotive. Their potentials are used where it is maximised; that is the oil companies or construction firms etc. The few that do, Nigerians are not willing to pay the service worth but bargain. Excellent service at bargains! How?! How fair can that be? There is heavy use of control-systems in vehicles today and some are just too complicated. Control-Systems is not a mediocre discipline to comprehend. This creates a stumbling block for the mechanic that is only limited to mechanical interactions and dynamics of "rigid-bodies." Which most are! The ones in the West are not better off. What you don't hear are the repeat-services.

As previously implied, some cars work like "plants" (in refinery concept) in the control-systems aspect but they aren't maintained as so. The training needed for these specifications are expensive. Counselling a mechanic to apply for visa to Europe for the sake of a 16-hour (2 days accelerated) updated professional training is more of humour than practicality. The thousands in Euro hasn't been factored in yet.

There are many vehicles that shouldn't be in Nigeria (to begin with). Yet, Nigerians see it fit to own these vehicles. When the vehicle goes "south" and unusable, the standard response to such a folly is "Nigerian mechanics are bad."

Competent mechanics exist in Nigeria. They are expensive. Competent engineers for automotive exist as well. Nigerians [just] don't want to pay the due fees without inconsiderate bargains. So, it's cheaper to say Nigerian mechanics are bad than to part with the appropriate cash.

car-doctor:


See naija man?

He thinks I'm trying to sell him one. Unfortunately, I Don't sell cars. I only repair them.

Car-Doctor.

Someone's hating!

smartchoice: I use petrol...

Do not use gasoline. The coatings on the plates as well as other areas of contact cannot bear harsh solutions. The last time I visited Nigeria, State-wide, cars were breaking down because Nigeria [decided] for the first time to "endow" the gasoline with 25% ethanol. The throttle body is also very expensive; $4,000 in range (to be precise).

Gee2728: House pls I have been considering cleaning the throttle body of my 2000 W202 C230k but am not sure of what solvent to use. Would rly welcome any trusted and tested suggestions.

I am sure dedicated products are sold for this.

aikerism: Mine is not worse... At least my baby works and drives like mad. I may not know the meaning of all the grammer you wrote above but I use Mobil XHP in my C200 W202. I did not come up with dat my self ofcourse... It was "PROFESSIONAL" advice... And I still don't want to worry my head if my adviser got it right or wrong but people are different and approaches can also be different in the end we all hope to get results and learn from each other. Sometimes you should consider that apart from someone like me that lives in Abuja, someone might be driving an MB in Ohafia Abia State... And if he follows your write ups and suggestions he may not drive or own a benz cos most times they are not realistic locally. I am not and will not insult ur knowlege on the subject but know that people who can't get "PROFESSIONAL" help will still find a way to drive and maintain their benz. Even Uncle A.U Hanson takes care of his MB him self.

P.S: I was not recommending my oil to the person who was inquiring, I only told him what I use that has been serving me for a long time and asked him to choose wisely.

Kaa!

Yours is worse.

In addition, I did not take offense. Your response was thoroughly fair; in other words, no insults were implied.

I understand your emotional view about adhering to specifications. That's just how far it goes.

Why don't you purchase an Alfa-Romeo (for instance) and maintain it as you please; wide from system specifications? Why [again]? The reason [being so] is socio-economical factors. Mercs are not simple "systems" to maintain. You own one because of the high level of precision standard it upholds. If parts and other resources needed for maintenance would be a problem, such a vehicle is not a best-buy for that given point in time and relative geographical region.

Get a third opinion about the oil. Whoever gave you such professional advice owes you a field of explanation. If that can't be given to you on-the-fly, then you've been (what popular culture denotes as tag) pwned (owned).

If will be unfair if I do not break-down what I afore-discussed. I (very well) understand different backgrounds. The oil is partially lubricating the engine. The partial duration to which the engine is lubricated is odd and unpractical. Secondly, it fails to meet the minimum requirement for Euro's materials, rolling contacts (bearing) and rails contact under all conditions. Thirdly, you are creating unfactored drag and unnecessary inertia in pumpability, thus resorting to a latter of unfactored oil pressure that is excessive. Fourthly, you've upgraded your oil filter to a cup. It is pure aesthetic. It serves no function at the time the engine needs it most. The oil - being a weak grade of oil - will alkalise; because the conditions are inappropriate.

Engine and transmission was over-engineered for longevity; not to be misused or abused. Factory specification stated 0w-40 or 10w-40. How in the world did you conclude 20w-50? For a small engine, low turbulent-flow compression?! Try understanding with me here. Ford truck that has capability of hauling 10,000 - 15,000 pounds of payload does not use the specification you are installing. The 40-weight oil is not 50-weight oil. Matter of fact, "personalities" are different. One of the parameter is "kinematic viscosity." This is also measured in two stages in oil operation. Has it ever puzzled you why Nigerians replace engines? What's been stated applies to all vehicles.

This is the Mercedes thread; with intent to discuss Mercedes, especially technical related issues. The advice given to you was wrong. Abuja or Germany means nothing as far as precepts go. The same sun and moon seen in Germany is seen in Abuja. Fluid-Mechanics will not change because you are African and the designer were German. If the professional cannot explain to you within the precepts of fluid-mechanics why such wide deviation from factory specs is needed, such a person should not be advising you on cars. Save your money and follow specifications. Don't bargain for a catastrophic engine failure. The money spent and the downtime is no pardon against a [possible] clumsy engine transplant.

The homework is left to you. Use the right grade and note how "light" the car feels to the throttle. If its unimportant, I won't be bothering you. You risk damaging the engine. Rather than be on the defense, get another opinion. You shouldn't need any because the owner's manual plus the dip-stick has disclosed it.


Pardon the long text. I hope I have conveyed (at least something).

I rest my case.

roosebolton:
Thanks so much for your advice. The car has minor scratches here and there.. Is there a way I can do a body work in those few areas and not having to paint the whole car? This is my first car and am kinda of a novice in this

I might not be sure what you imply by body work due to regional differences. That however is unnecessary.

The new lustre (I hope I spelt that right and correctly appropriated) look will require you to polish the vehicle. Then you apply an enamel. A high powered rotary tool is needed. This is used to buff and also apply the agents. If the surface assault is mild, the process will reduce/eliminate the appearance.

Caution: this should not be manually done. No process can be partially completed for in favour of deferment. Everything must be completed, except the buffing. That could several attempt to restore the factory look.

If you go through my posts, I addressed with a NLd'er. It's a short post. Also, never use soap to wash your vehicle. Only use water, no matter how dirty.

dgitrader: @trac,
if u read me well, i never said "no single nigerian mechanic" understands german autos, i said 99% are not updated on MODERN GERMAN AUTOs, especially ELECTRONIC ASPECTS!
if am ''very wrong", kindly educate me with your percentage, am a willing learner.

as for CUT-THROAT charges, i have nothing against the true professionals, its just a caution to the op, at least you dint fault me on that.
i used a relatively modern vectra and i speak from humble experience.

op, trac is very correct, no car is actually free of electrical/mechanical faults. it takes deep pocket or GUTS to upgrade from japanese to german.

I sincerely apologise. I emphases were excessive. Please, overlook it. You aren't wrong as I disproportionately blew out of proportion, nevertheless 99% is near-total condemnation. That is 99 out of 100 mechanics; 198 out of 200 mechanics; 296 out of 300 Nigerians mechanics that are stale (according to you). Don't you think that's extreme in statistics for a complete novice?

By the way, I'll cross out the unnecessary phrase.

roosebolton: I have heard quite a lot of positives about the quality of oven baked painting over normal paint job (for a car). I just got a fairly used car.. And although it's quite clean to the casual observer. I would really love to take it to a "new car" level of cleanliness. However I would rather keep the manufacturer's paint job than have a shoddy attempt. Would really appreciate if folks who have tried oven baked share their experience on the quality level when compared to what u get with a new car. Also is it easy to determine if a car has had an after market paint job when u use oven as compared to a normal paint job (which is always quite obvious)

Why do you want to go through the headache just to have a perfectly normal car inferior in return? What you are looking at is not paint on a car. It is a bond associated to an enamel. It is a manufacturing process to achieve this feat. It is not the same thing as the craft technician painting a vehicle. In addition, vehicle has to be stripped and sand-blasted. You just don't paint and then develop an impression. It is a very expensive job (if done right) with the appropriate paint. So expensive, it cost almost the price of a fairly new car. I was quoted $15,000 with a 15 year guarantee of integrity many years ago for a black car. The pricing was very fair. This is the only proper way, stripping the entire vehicle to shell and sand-blasting it. Except you are ready to go all the way, leave it as it is. The ultimate risk that will be prominent if it occurs is clumsiness.

dgitrader: we have the same situation
in my opinion.... compared to asian cars, 99.9% of german cars are much safer(from theft also), rugged and reliable. newer models have better fuel economy and excellent performance, i love benz and audi especially.
BUT the problems are our automechanics, 99% of them are 10-15 years beyind in auto dynamics. especially on auto-electronics, thats where owning a modern german auto becomes a huge Challenge.
but for the few mechanics good with newer models.... their service charge is cut-throat. only if u r ok with models before 99, u then enjoy the best of our mechanics. thats why in the north 90% of transporters go for german Autos for these obvious reasons.
that aside, i love the audi A4's badly. they are luxurious, rugged and yet economical.

i hope the gurus will come to the rescue with their recomendations

What rescued you was the disclaimer "in my opinion." /*Edit*/

Furthermore, it'll be hard proving that in a nation, there isn't one person with sound-understanding of how German car work. There are many factors why such vehicles break-down and [ultimately] permanently break-down. A small percentage might be the mechanic. The root reason is the owner.

dgitrader: but for the few mechanics good with newer models.... their service charge is cut-throat.

Why shouldn't they? They have bills and family to feed. They have less repairs. These mechanics should be encouraged/patronised.

P.U.S.H:
I have been using 1997 Honda accord and I have had opportunity of driving 2006 Honda pilot though not my regular!  
Right now!  I want to go German! I have in mind 2006 ml350, 2006 c320....

I need advice if you have used these car before, also gurus in the house can suggest any good german car from 2006 that is free from electrical and mechanical problems. All I need to know so that I would have any regret 

You are being unrealistic.

car-doctor:


Lincoln Continentals, Cadillac Deville, most large American Ford sedans etc.

Are you interested in buying one?

Car-Doctor.

Not at all. Nice sales tactic.

ziccoit:

@Trac, nothing. I just want to have the knowledge.

Overhauling is the best approach. It is cheaper and the dependability cannot be paralleled with a used transmission of unknown serviceability.

Re: Coolant Question

Note, the M-B Approval disclosure. This means the companies took their specifications to MB and paid the necessary fees and MB did their tests and met or exceeded the required standards. This is what to look for. The companies are not self-proclaiming, MB "accredited" it.

The same goes to the disclosed vehicles that are "manufactured-approved" on the sheet. It's a good product.

ziccoit:

What if Valvoline ZerexG05 and MB coolant are not available? What are the other ways out?

Welcome back to NL.

What's up?!


Two companies exceeded MB's criterion in respect to your question. I want to believe there products are sold in Nigeria. They are African products and the "German manufacturers" approved it. So, it is pretty tough integrity-wise and would hold-up to extreme conditions. I have yellow-highlighted the approval aspect and referenced it with a red arrow.

The second attachment will in the following response. I will appreciate knowing if the fluids are readily available.

yungboss:
Tracc?
Good to see you back brother. I seriously missed your posts...was hoping you be back soon.

How do you do?! Don't mind me I just kept procrastinating

smartchoice: Trac...welcome

What's up, SmartC? How are you living?!

ziccoit: How much is 19998/99 mercedes benz W202 C200 5SP automatic gearbox sold in the market and what is going to be the total cost of gear replacement? Is the gear freely available in the market?

If you don't mind me asking: why do you want to replace it? Your best choice is overhauling it. The peace of mind is there and you are certain of the intensity of effectiveness.

aikerism:

I use Mobil XHP on my 96 C200 V4 natuarally aspirated girlfriend... , she drives well and doesn't cough or belch... Pls choose wisely so as not to use an incompatible oil in ur engine . Cheeeers!

Your's is worse than the fellow inquiring. He is correct but mixed up in reinstall intervals. The motor was built around the 229.x standard. What you have will not measure-up to "geometry-surface" demands of contact and sliding mated surfaces, as opposed to what the manufacturer stated as engineered around. For areas where Mobil 1 fluids are not readily available, certain alternatives were officially stated by Mercedes. What's puzzling is how you ended with XF (of every brand sold in the stores). That is the wrong application for any European car. Go over the sheet of the XF formulation and interpret the numbers. Afterwards compare to what is expected.

By the way, with the engine stated and the formulation you disclosed, there is almost no point using an oil filter. It is useless. Also, wear at the dead centre will be exceedingly prominent because velocity, pressure and temperature are least favourable during hydrodynamic operations at that region. That should be the least of your fears. The bearings would be what I would be concerned about. Then, -- corrosion! Alkalinity!

If you are in doubt, get professional advice. Oil documentation is there for a purpose. Stick to manufacturer's specifications.


P.S. The oil you recommended is inferior to Mobil 1 Euro Formulation and the rest (from one end of the spectrum to the other). They are not of the same tier.

Gee2728: The coollant I used is total coolant which I bought from their filing station.my point abt the fuel economy is that the coolant is the only recent change I have done to the car lately. So I was jst wondring if it has anything to do with it.because for models of my car(W202 C230K) engine tempt has effect on performance and also fuel comsumption. For example early morning when the temp is low the engine rev longer before the gear change so as to get the engine to normal operating temp. And longer rev could burn up more gas.about the coollant its specicied on it that its hotter regions.

Such antifreeze should be nowhere near an MB.

All MB's (at least my generation and a few others before it) use hybrid based antifreeze. Total Coolant is useless and WILL damage the water pump bearings. I addition to that, it doesn't do the job well under extreme conditions. Mercedes Benz's coolant packs a lot of "punches." Expensive though! There is an alternative and approved also by Mercedes. Valvoline Zerex G05! Apparently, it is the same as the formulation for MB's cooling fluid. This is because Valvoline formulated the MB fluid. MB fitted water pumps should go-near two decades of use. This will only be achieved using the correct fluid specification. The bearings will get overstressed with the conventional antifreeze installation. Water-pump "job" is expensive and can only be done one way; the right way. Omitted precautions and cut-corners will require repeat-service(s) till it's done right.

LeylowDee: my mercedez benz E-class 2002 showing ETS and ABS light ON, also, the engine goes OFF whenever i apply brake while moving. have tried all i could: serviced d car with synthetic oil , do full steam wash of the engine. still, the issue still there. PLS HELP!!!

What you haven't done is to find a qualified service agent to diagnose your vehicle and carry out repairs. I can guarantee (provided you are willing to spend the money) that the problem will be identified and the appropriate procedures will be carried out. What you don't want is the symptoms taken away. Root-elimination is what you want.

tpacalipse: According to a Volvo mechanic, he claims that s80 is the best.

Are you mis-quoting or you mis-judged who the person might have been. This is untrue. As a matter of fact, it is totally untrue.