lourash: Nice and educative arguments... Makes me go back to my books

It's good motivation

yungboss:
thanks for the clarification Trac,
of a truth, in a closed system masses do not transact with the surrounding only heat...
now I understand the cycle completes before the centrifugal pump (turbo) kicks in...(I think I need to go back to my books,lol)...

Anytime!

yungboss:
great discourse by Trac, your approach is perfect for Engineering-oriented subscribers, it is great "re-learning" for us all...
of the two broad aspects of Thermodynamics, you seem to focus more on the statistical approach, which is the more detailed (so to speak),I personally do enjoy the way you share knowledge here...
trying to recall from the past,
a heat engine is not 100% efficient, a closed system must have a "sink" (the atmosphere, through the exhaust in this case) for it to accomplish a cycle...
in the S.I. engines, about 50% of energy in the fuel is lost through the exhaust,some 25% or more is used up by the radiator and other sub-systems in the engine, 25% is actually available to generate power...
since the turbine would make use of the exhaust's gases, I thought this would translate to proper harness of the lost energy provided by the fuel, thereby increasing the thermal efficiency of the system. i may have "aged" out on details, kindly straighten this out wrt your statement "the irreversibilities would have been completed"

The appreciation is [much] welcomed.

You've mixed it up. It is a closed-system not an open-system. Your error is based on the fact that you have taken the area of concentration (system) as an open-system. It is not an open-system but a closed-system or controlled-mass system. In a closed-system, mass is fixed and no mass crosses [across] its boundaries. Only heat goes through the boundaries (a very important and fundamental fact to note).

Re: 50%, 25%, 25%! It does not subscribe to the Carnot's equation of efficiency. Which is based on the lone criterion; that is the working fluid. The heat-exchanger and exhaust references you have made has nothing to do with what we are discussing. Those are channels of heat-transfer (heat loss). A closed-system does not interface in the manner to which you stated. They are also sub-systems. They are sub-systems to keep the system to attain its intended objective. A Veyron has 12 heat-exchangers. Also, consider the M64/60T; the 911 air-cooled engine with its short exhaust channels. It sounds inappropriate from your open-system perspective. The main concern according to the Carnot’s efficiency principle has to do with the area of concentration; which is the closed-system. Anything else is to keep the system in continuous operation (that is auxiliary) and operating conditions.

The internal combustion engine is a Carnot Limited engine. A Carnot-limited engine with a hot exhaust. It will always be governed by the Carnot principle. The Carnot cycle unambiguously details that the efficiency cannot be higher than the highest temperature of the expansive medium minus the lowest temperature divided by the highest temperature.

That is E = [((Th – Tl) / (Th)) * 100]

We can practicalise our governing principle.

The highest temperature of the expansive medium or working fluid (Th) = 8
The lowest temperature of the expansive medium or working fluid (Tl) = 6

In substitution

E = [(( 8 – 6 ) / ( 8 ) * ( 100 )]
E= [(( 2/8 ) *( 100 )]
E = 25%

Another example with lower fluid temperature of 2

E = [(( 8 – 2 ) / ( 8 ) * ( 100 )]
E= [(( 6/8 ) *( 100 )]
E = 75%

Efficiency is higher as heat-loss is minimised.

As long as the expansive medium (working fluid/gas as it expands) operates between a high temperature and a low temperature, it will never exceed that efficiency (set up by Carnot). Never! Again, that is only in a perfect state; for it virtually possible. Meaning, it is best gotten of its reversiblilities (reversible process). When irreversibilites are factored in, the efficiency goes lower than what the governing Carnot efficiency theoretical value details. It is an intentional design. It is a general principle to all heat-engines. Remember, it is efficiency of the system not efficiency of the compressor. That's another episode entirely.

Reversible Process/Reversibility: it leaves no traces to its surroundings and reusuable. So it is reinstated to its original state at the end of its process. This is akin to the colloquially termed egg in the pingpong (table-tennis). This egg is struck against the bat to the negotiating portion of the table and the same process is repeated as the opposing player/s assert their position and return the egg in the same process in which it was initiated (striking the egg with the bat). This will continue till a side fails to return validly or the egg gets compromised.

Irreversible Process/Irreversibility: it leaves its traces everywhere (boundary surroundings). Thus, it cannot be restored to its initial state. In similitude, it is as taking an uncooked egg (raw egg in its shell) and striking it against the bat to the valid portion of the ping-pong table and expecting a corresponding transaction from your opponent. In the Carnot limited system we are discussing, the core is friction (as motion is opposed) and heat transfer. Friction in this case is appropriate but the heat-losses shouldn’t be.

From the expressed principle above, the less heat-loss through the system, higher overall efficiency. This will require the block be done completely different than what we have been accustomed to. As long as you can contain the heat within its boundaries, the higher the efficiency of that system will be. The compressor functions after all irreversibilites has been completed. It is not part of the initial surrounding. Above all, irreversibilities are gone and cannot be harnessed again for work.

The only way to use a compressor to increase the efficiency is not by turbocharging. It is totally different in its applied engineering and will give you no more than 40% efficiency. It's complicated that I can't discuss that. Partly because I am not learned on it and I don't have the resources and time or interest for it. It has nothing to do with the reactor I'm focusing on. As far as I know, it's not used in production vehicles and has never been. It is also standard industry practice; so nothing is mysterious about it. It can be used in the automotive application.

yungboss:
ok Trac, thanks. I'll send you an email,the previous one is now defunct.

Thanks. I got it.

icemann:

Error in my part. I always taught it was 2% to 5%.

Mr Trac i used a bicycle analogy to make people understand my point. Most people here didn't do intro to thermodynamics and cant even convert KWh to Joules. Please do explain to us like we are 5 year old.

Iceman,

It is far complicated than that and it isn't solely on thermodynamics. Sincerely, it's okay (with respect to first sentence). It's not possible to explain in any simple term for everyone. As you already understand, it requires system-thinking. One without an engineering background cannot have this perception and logical thought-process. I learnt that lesson here and I resorted in more times than one, making fundamental references on basic fundamental principles that could otherwise have been avoided. You can't win them all. As a defense, they'll term your published content "complicated." We are mostly (in NL) Nigerians by descent but not all of us are from Nigeria. My mentality is different from the typical Nigerian and that clash in culture will be there. In the United States, it is an insult to speak or convey principles to an adult in 5th-grader English. It is frowned-upon seriously. The news-media addresses the community in 5th-grader English and many don’t take it kindly (especially when there is soft music in the background).

I do not want to make scientific or technical related posts anymore. However, a few points I will share; in accordance to your request. It'll require deductive reasoning (which should not be a problem for the technically-minded).

-[1] - The cyclic processes is the primary/main reason why the heat-engine is inefficient. No heat engine will exceed the Carnot efficiency.
-[2] - The more the heatloss, the higher the consumption of the working fluid
-[3] - There is no such thing or principle called "fuel efficiency." That is nonsense made up for the masses and petrolheads by -- (I don't know).
-[4] - Efficiency has to do with system and not the working fluid.
-[5] - Working fluid is referenced as potential and potential-difference. Not fuel efficient or fuel efficiency.
-[6] - As of today (in mass production), nothing with a hot exhaust is an efficient system.
-[7] - The media is the link between the automotive industry and the masses.
-[8] - Horsepower and torque is mainstreamed as efficiency. Classical/Statistical thermodynamics explains otherwise.
-[9] - There is profit in inefficient vehicles. The oil companies work in tandem with engine manufacturers on engine design builds (upstream). It is not as we think. Major corporations will not relinquish a major profit avenue when demand is sky-high.
[10] - The turbine does not increase the efficiency of the system. A closed-system has interaction ONLY with its immediate surroundings.
[11] - The pump is setup as a turbocharger. It is not setup as a compensation to make up for an inefficient setup. It is a sub-system. It works after the fact. The irreversibilities would have been completed before the turbine is instantaneously handed its task increasingly/continuously. This is not public awareness because it is not the media's duty to educate the public. Goal is to make sales through perception-marketing.
[12] - During the generation of the babyboomers (that is the era of the counter-culture), an awareness was offered for engine economy and nobody cared. It was not a trend and was deemed un-pop. Baby-boomers will share deeper knowledge to this. It is a fact they regret to live by today.
[13] - The mindset of companies and corporations is that the masses feel entitled. They were born with nothing and feel entitled to all.
[14] - The news media is not a credible source for technical information. It is not rating-friendly. Washed-Out information is ideal for ratings.
[15] - Keep the masses dissatisfied - Charles Kettering, Vice President of General Motors:1925.

Man claims to have been on the moon; yet an engine for a motor vehicle cannot attain a 50% minimum efficiency or higher in efficiency. Then there are asleep consumers that brag about their road-vehicles (that is non-special purpose) that struggle to achieve 8% efficiency on a good day. The worst thing is that many take time and money to lower the efficiency percentage. They deem others that value higher efficiencies are "boring" and "shameful. On the flip-side, the scientific and engineering community has a name for them. This is not to be confused as discrimination against motorsports/racing. That is special-purpose application.

@YoungBoss,

I'm still upholding my promise. I didn't forget it. It has begun. Bear with me.

uduaksun: Pls note that turbo charger is not limited to motor vehicles in its application. It has wider application in automotive engines. It is driven by exhaust gases routed to the turbine side of the turbo. What it does basically is to discharge dry compressed gases(air) into the combustion chamber which in turn mixes with measured quantity of fuel for combustion to take place. most engines using turbo does not use spark plug because d compressed air discharge into d combustion is done at very high temperature which causes combustion to take place at interaction with fuel. This stuff is highly technical. It needs a knowledge of thermodynamics and internal combustion engines.

If you do not mind me "optimising" what you've written. It is correct but mildly erred. Mildly erred because keywords are misappropriated. The content is correct but also, one-sided. This will buttress my initial post to this thread. It's not a clash at you but awareness for everyone that has some awareness. Fuel will not get cheaper and we aren't moving away from gasoline/diesels in motor vehicles. That will require a revolution that will lead to another age.

It is a turbine or centrifugal pump. The turbocharger is an adjective not a noun. In other words, it is used as a turbocharger (reverse-adiabatic compression).

Furthermore, a centrifugal pump can be used to increase the overall efficiency of a heat-engine. This is not turbocharging. Fuel preservation is almost doubled in relation to consumption. This is where NL'ers had problems. The engine efficiency in a gasoline engine is increased by 62.5% in efficiency. It's not done or automotive vehicles and doesn't have a mainstream adjective as turbocharging does. This is left to owners (if they choose). It is widely used in military vehicles and other fuel-dependent applications. In war, resources are not in abundance. It is also used extensively in oil-and-gas machineries.

You limit yourself greatly if you learn the internal combustion engine. The heat-engine is the correct reference in that context. This gives the superceding understanding.

femi4: Guy calm down, shey na the same Thermo wey I read for school you come made these ambigious? SMH

Where is the ambiguity? I don't know the thermodynamics you studied. It is a big shame that Nigerians will come online and cry-out that an algebraic expression has made a statement complicated. On the internet??! Nigeria utilise centrifugal technology. It is used at the rigs as well as other applications. One of the major milestones in Nigerian oil-producing companies is to be well sound in this area. The everyday-man is seeking ways to reduce his fuel consumption and we are referring to 1930's mentality of turbocharging. Problems in defining efficiency and stumbling at Carnot's principle is not a good impression in any way. What you criticised is a big exposure. What I did not detail is where the monetary counter is (but it's there in the post). It is from professional R-and-D investigation (at molecular investigation for an unrelated upcoming design) I got to discover this and I scaled this down to statistical thermodynamics and there is disturbance. What would have happened if I used the actual terminology? Information for the masses is given to them by those that have the power to control. The news media has done a bad job telling it as it is. I hope the same isn't done on other sensitive related matters like politics.

George Orwell stated " When deceit becomes universal, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act (or act of revolution). The motor vehicle is a product; and it sold to you new as defective - no matter how fancy. You have power when you understand the rudiments of the product rather than the selling point of the product.

The awareness for the enthusiastic engineer or technologist has been created. They will do their own work (especially those with the engineering resources). A good objective has been fulfilled.

That's my two-cents.

icemann: The Lower heating value of Octane(the major component in gasoline) is 44 mega joules in 1 kg of octane and most V6 produce 200kw at 5000RPM. No need to crack your head its less than 25%

Interesting!!!

How did you come about this? Where? How?!

Can you p-l-e-a-s-e explain in details what you meant by the above quote. I am [seriously] interested. How did this surface? Is this orthodox or unorthodox? Where did the figures come from? How did you "cook" the final conclusion? What laws did you use? I'm interested in your application of thermodynamics. Where is such "thermo" applied?

icemann: I see you enjoy shearing you knowledge in Thermodynamics, but the sad part is less than 20% of the People in car talk understand you(my estimates From UNESCO says less than 13% grads in the world are science majors)

From my knowledge of Thermodynamics and mechanics I would explain each paragraph to everyone here so they can Understand our arguments instead of throwing big formulas and science laws around and that would cause more confusion.

First


He defined torque as momentum in a circle path, and I agree. He also said part of the energy generated in an engine is used. The rest is wasted through heat, friction etc



He explained 2nd law of thermodynamics in 2 different ways. Trust me you don't need to bother yourselves on that




He tried to explain 2nd law of thermodynamics in relation to efficiency of an engine and the percentage of the overall heat generated is used> He said 25% is Used and I don't agree. It is less than that

The Lower heating value of Octane(the major component in gasoline) is 44 mega joules in 1 kg of octane and most V6 produce 200kw at 5000RPM. No need to crack your head its less than 25%


.

He tried to use mathematics to model or will I say explain something I can not understand. It was to opened with too many variables. I cnt help here I am not a math major.



Like I sais Torque is Newton per Meter same as momentum. If you generate more momentum form an engine you can push harder on a gear system and create more speed a lot better than less toque on the same Rotation speed(RPM)

In lay mans terms. If you change to a bigger gear in your bicycle it be come harder to ride because the torque your leg is generating is constant and the bicycle gear is resisting your speed. Now if you increases your energy you will def move faster. Same applies to a car


Lets not make this thing complex.

Your job to devalue what I passed across is incomplete, thus making me as a villain. You simply omitted the "juiciest" aspect that was straight to the matter and created your own context. Do yourself the right thing and explain to everyone in this thread from the energy context what I have said. I'm interested how efficient you will convey the information; that is how much useable the information will be. It is only fair you interpret what I say accurately - and not your own interpretation. Use references relating to energy.

I did not make a reference to a bicycle but corrected the misconception that higher torque equates to efficiency. Secondly, it is only respectful to define the variable of such deep topic. So, don't take it as an insult. If you understood it, the definitions shouldn't have bothered you; you'd simply read from mid-post. I cannot predict how far a discussion might go.

In addition to that: the scientific reference along with the derived equation that I asked DOES NOT EXIST. That's why I asked you. It is impossible for you to present any. I am able to challenge you on that based on experience. This is because at ambient temperature, a Joule is of zero work content. That can be proven as well This singular aspect proves your question as void of logic (thermodynamics). Then I went the extra step to explain it with all the definition, laws and expressions. I know better; next time I'll save myself the time.

It's not making things complex. If I did, then I'd speak using subsidiary information and you wouldn't know what I'm talking about. Humbly, I answered you in classical and statistical thermodynamics. The definitions were to clarify that efficiency has nothing to do with torque. That's why I went overboard to make clear so that there will be no confusion. That's where I straightened. There is no confusion [anywhere]. It was on purpose to get the definitions taken care of - so that there is no misunderstanding. Also, I did not address the layman. I addressed YOU. Hence, the disclaimer.

Again, the turbine has nothing to do with the efficiency of a closed-system. It is a sub-system. It works by virtue of reverse-adiabatic compression. Efficiency of the [main] system is where your focus should be. The efficiency did NOT go up. The cyclic processes is what I stressed. Did the turbine eliminate/reverse the unharnessable effects of the cyclic processes? You've failed to address this or you omitted this in your response.

By the way (and again), you have twisted what I've written to suit yourself. Torque has nothing to do with efficiency in the manner you presented it. Efficiency has to do with system. Not Torque!!! Not Gearing!!! That's why the Carnot equation was given. Torque and power has nothing to do with what I am talking about. Your original question had to do with overall efficiency and that is the basis of the discussion.

Furthermore:

Energy != Power

According to Carnot theory of cycle, energy is accessible to generate power only via cyclic processes. This cyclic processes is where the INEFFICIENCY is (working-fluid).

Once again - I am stressing the cyclic processes. Not the bicycle application you mockingly referred to. Work is a couple of phases after what I'm referring to and we aren't going that far (and will never, because its outside of scope).

If you read all that I've written, you'd come to conclusion that all I have elaborated has/had to do with cyclic processes (that is why I took time to detail the second laws). In other words, the response was thoroughly energy-related (not bicycle or torque). I find it amusing that you interpreted the Math as complicated. It is arithmetic (4th-grade Math). Rather than taking the defense that I made things complicated, why not find out what I'm saying and counter where I am wrong - based on your original question - so that "I/we" can learn from your perspective. I've done my part answering with definitions and and the appropriate mathematical expressions to buttress what I've said. The reference here is to ENERGY and not work.

Prove me wrong - show where I am wrong. Tell me where I did not make sense or made things complicated? In addition, answer the question you asked me in scientific details. That is: how a centrifugal pump increases overall efficiency of a heat-engine based on torque, gearings and weight-loss. This way, there will be closure and know who made things complicated. If you are correct, I will admit to it and acknowledge in a response post. I've never denied an acknowledgement when I was wrong on NL.

ping2ping: It's now very clear that Turbo is used to increase the power output of the engine rather than increasing the engine capacity.

Now, is turbo charged engined easy to maintain by Nigerian mechanics? I ask this question because not everyone can afford to take their cars to dealers or to expensive garages. Most of us patronize these so called road side auto technician who as a matter of fact are trying considering the educational background of most of them.

Does turbo charged engines require more expertise to maintain than regular engines?

Allo contributions will be highly appreciated

All you've stated is after-the-fact. The main issue is how you would run it. This is not an environment to discuss anything serious. Talk to people in the real-world with experience and fundamental understanding. Especially those in the oil companies; that is if your skepticism is high. The "intrinsic" detail will be given to you. If the person to whom you interface [with] is unaware, he/she can harness the information by discovery or email. There is a core information that disqualifies these configurations except compensations are made. It's not an open secret, it's out there.

By the way, do not repeat the first paragraph that you've taken time to type (at least in public). It is inherently flawed.

gbonsalifus:

A turbocharged or supercharged engine is more economical than a non turbocharged one. Now, the problem is with the definition of fuel economy and fuel efficiency.
Auto enthusiasts use the two expressions interchangeably but in engineering, there is a little difference. While Economy puts the cost/price of achieving the output into consideration, efficiency only considers the unit ratio of input to output of a particular system like 'fuel' for example. [s]Can't say it all here, I should write about this on my blog soon.
for those who can comprehend, consider a Nissan GTR vs Audi R8. Also, a Bugatti Veyron vs Koenniseg Agera in relation to this topic Efficiency vs economy'.
Chech out 101carsense..com soon for a detailed talk.[/s]

Direct on the matter and refreshing! It is not "entertaining" to discuss automotive in its default language; engineering/engineer-ish. The fundamental and isolated differences between efficiency and economy does not matter as far as NL (this forum) is concerned; despite the fact it is NOT interchangeable in concept and language. It is not popular. People find it easy to believe anything as long as you don't prove it. It's fast becoming a false environment and/or social-media. It's only a handful that will benefit from this thread.

icemann:


I disagree with you. If you agree that turbos increases torque then how does it not improve overall efficiency? If more torque can be gotten by turbos, you can have a smaller engine with high torque and a higher gear ratio. You save weight by using a smaller engine and you can use more gears in the box.

***********This [however] will be my last technical post on NL. It is time-consuming and not productive. I will be trivial henceforth with minimal interaction. The “thread” should spare me on this. It is a complex question but [I] won't let it off the hook. A disclaimer: it is NOT for everyone. If engineering phenomena disturbs you, do not proceed.

It is impossible to straighten this answer without thermodynamics. As some of us are familiar with, it is a protracted and deductive science.
The comment written contradicts itself. Insomuch that is void of logic. My initial post on this thread has the answer BUT “everyone” condemned that I made the principle complicated. Meanwhile, I had scratched nothing. Those that understood in its entirety need no further explanation. Those without a clue need no explanation.

To answer the first [and only] question:

Torque != Efficiency

That alone renders the whole question as misplaced. Regarding your question and context, I can’t figure the relationship. If you know it, please give me the mathematical expression with the associated principle(s)/law(s) and I will work with that. However, I do know where you are coming from; a perspective fashioned by mainstream media. I will take the extra length to define “constraints” for the purpose of this objective. It will be lengthy but quantifiable in details. Torque by definition is the integration of force in distance (Force * Distance) or mass in acceleration (Mass * Acceleration) and efficiency of a plant has to do with the ratio in work output relative to the heat input of the working fluid.* Efficiency in this discussion is subdivided into three isolated conditions. Thermal efficiency (in a heat engine**) is the fraction of the heat input that is converted to net-work.

The second law of thermodynamics – Claucius: It is not possible to construct a device that operates in a cycle*** and produces no effects besides the transfer of heat from a lower temperature body to a higher temperature body.
The second law of thermodynamics – Planck: It is not possible for any device that is dependent on a cycle to receive heat from a single reservoir and produce a net amount of work.

The definitions have been taken care of and the appropriate laws presented.

No engine or system with a hot exhaust is efficient. None! It is how reversible in process the system is that matters. The internal combustion engine is a closed-system and it is greatly dependent on how reversible**** it is. The less reversible, the more the inefficiency. It has nothing to do with high torque equating efficiency. The turbine is a sub-system. It has nothing to do with the closed-system; for a closed-system does not interact with any of its surroundings besides its immediate surroundings. Any expansive-medium**** that has the addition of heat to it will never exceed the temperature difference in reciprocal to the highest temperature in percentage. That is E = [((Th – Tl) / Th) %]. This is known as the Carnot efficiency. As long as the addition of heat is to the expansive-medium, it will never exceed that efficiency. Furthermore, no heat engine cycle can ever be completed without losing some heat to a lower temperature sink. This is the root to the efficiency and your fuel economy. You want minimal heatloss to increase overall efficiency. The less heatloss, the closer you get to 100%. The maximum theoretical efficiency gotten from a gasoline (spark) engine is 25%. You’ll be lucky if you ever get such efficiency. In similitude, it is as an candidate took an exam and made 18%. That is an epic fail. You’ll be shocked the efficiencies of today’s engines. Things did not get better. Also, the higher the number of cylinders, the less efficient the system will be due to irreversibilities. Irreversible****** processes are higher.

Truth is: mainstream media has not communicated core information. It’s partly because everybody must understand and this is a phenomena that cannot be understood by everyone. As I script this, it’s difficult to express this without going deep plus a lot is omitted. Thermodynamics and Heat-Transfer are sub-genres/disciplines/pillars of Hyper-Physics and it's not shallow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJN0B2RIIMI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYwCNThbFeA

Unimaginable! As sensitive as the matter is, they are NOT getting it correct. There are many more. They are not obligated by law to disclose the core.

Don’t fall for the horsepower-torque misconception. In a partial differential mathematical expression, you can freeze a variable and begin to work on the corresponding variable (torque/economy). I hope you caught my drift there. It is wishful thinking that things will change without a heavy price. There is new technology on the shelf. It’s not coming now. At the moment, a test-run is being conducted; a vehicle has been released to forbid you from servicing your own vehicle. You’ll be breaking copyright laws. If it succeeds, then it becomes the norm [moving-forward]. If not, then something else. It’s a business and they want to remain in it.

That is your answer. The gimmick behind the turbines as a turbocharger is another matter. That requires discussion of intimate motive energy and utility principles of the internal combustion engine and it’s purely scientific; because of “low-level” details. It’s unneeded since efficiency has been defined above. In summary, it’s nothing but flexible air-fuel ratio in conjunction with pulse per ignition cycle (duty load). Hence, the word, ingenuity.

What I have disclosed can be proven by anyone that has sound-knowledge of thermodynamics and they can spot the areas that I have left off (omitted). It is full-proof and cannot be bent. However, due to the nature of the content, it requires application of the knowledge and interaction with people to grasp the totality. It's not possible to compress it all as a post.

Let me leave a caveat: vehicles are not going to be engineered efficient for you. There is no profit in that. That burden is left to you. The offer was presented [somewhere] between the forties and sixties and other interests were chosen. It did not matter because it wasn't about them (the me-generation). Talk to old-men/mechanics - they have a different understanding of what the motor vehicle is. Sincerely, they know more about cars than our generation does.

_{*-------Working fluid is regarded as fuel
**------Cyclic device - an energy converter that uses approximately a fraction of its converted energy e.g. I.C. engine
***-----Temperature differences as it goes high and low. This is known as cyclic processes
****----Processes that can be reversed without leaving a trace to its environment
*****---Fuel as it expands in its surrounding
******--Processes that cannot be reversed
Th - highest temperature of the working fluid
Tl - lowest temperature of the working fluid
Heat-Engine != Internal Combustion Engine - It is a cyclic device. The IC is a heat-engine}

Area_boy: Trac just made everything sound much more complicated than it actually is. I don't think he needs to know torque to power formula.

In its simplest explanation, a turbocharger is a device that forces more air into the engine and improve its efficiency and thereby increasing output power.

If you think of how the conventional engine works. air mixed with fuel gets sucked into the engine and compressed before burning to give power. Turbo give you more air in the engine.

Someone correct me if im wrong here but I think most (if not all of them) turbochargers in car get their power from the exhaust stream?

But OP. all you need to know is my first line of reply. except you are thinking of getting a turbocharged car then you might want to do some more research on the topic if its an older model car. With a brand new car, you should have no problem worrying about how your turbo works

You are correct, all he needed was the first response. My contribution was to supplement the youtube links in the first response. Without the arithmetic expression, the content could still be understood plus economic considerations were factored into my response. The OP had no problem with the content.

sultaan: Yeah Trac light is on now .

Turbo is one little expensive gizmo added to some small engines to give it some ump like bigger engines.

Turbo engines need about 1 litre of engine oil extra to lubricate it so if your mechanic added the usual 4 litres at service you may be very low at next service.

A turbo engine is usually about $1600 more expensive than a regular engine.Turbo can be added to any engine but because they cost thousands not really worth it for most

The content is not complicated. Anyway, as you stated it's a gizmo. Blunt truth! In actuality, it's a gimmick when you understand how heat-engines express themselves. There is no increase in efficiency. It's just a hyped perception for us to manage-with and accept the huge inefficiencies.

icemann: Turbos are easy to fix. Any mechanic that can't fix or change a car turbo should not hold a spanner or look under a hood

Sincerely; "turbos" (the vehicle) do NOT run on air. It is also out of the realm of the mechanics. The formulation (or configuration) of the fuel in liquid-state sold in Nigeria does not lend itself favourably to such sub-systems. It has nothing to do with the mechanics but operational. This is further exacerbated with the fact that most of such engines require a state-of-health to be at least near-optimum. It's one headache that can be avoided.

ping2ping: @Trac
Thanks for that response. I always thought that the engine might be difficult for ordinary Nigerian mechanic to handle well. I don't have so much money to go to expensive auto technicians

There are a lot more variables to a turbo-induced engine than the atmospherically-aspirated engine. There are more concerns to be aware-of, plus the socio-economical standard does not favour many of the 'turbo' configurations marketed. The atmospherically-aspirated engine is the cheapest and the worry-free of the two configurations discussed (especially on Nigerian space).

JUO: @Trac: please put me through. i was thinking turbo will increase horse power?

Torque = [(RPM/HP) * (5252)]
HP = [(Torque * RPM) / (5252)]

From the relationship, The function will always be affected by the expression. There will be horsepower gains (the affect) with the addition of the turbine but the primary function (purpose) of the sub-system is to increase torque (at the crank - that is where the effect is). You "arrange" for one or the other. Horsepower increase is as a result of the increase in torque (which goes in line with your perception). It's not always the case though: it depends on how the designer or builder "arranges" the variables (power trade-offs to favour enormous torque).

ping2ping: Please I see mostly in Volkswagen products having Turbo Charged Engine and I wonder, what exactly is a turbo charged engine?

I notice that turbo charged engines produces higher power that their non turbo engines. For example you will see 1.8L turbo engine producing about 140hp while a 2.0L engine will produce 120hp.

Can the turbo engine be easily fixed by most Nigerian mechanics?

Thanks for all your contributions

In addition to the links the previous poster referenced:

Turbos do not produce horsepower. That's an affect. Here is the relationship: Torque = [(RPM/HP) * (5252)]. It's a turbine (centrifugal in configuration). It can used in two applications. One is to magnify torque and the other is to increase overall efficiency (not fuel efficiency as mainstream denotes but comprehensive, thus higher return in fuel mileage; nevertheless 62.5% gain is attained). The second is never (or rarely) used in passenger vehicles. The reduction in engine capacity is as a result (assuming all things equal) of the piston ceiling being domed and the atmospheric induced configuration (non-turbo) being flat. The conversion to power is a lot complicated to explain; for it has to do with chemistry of reaction and the translation of the thermal energy. The engine limitations and power harnessed is in this phase - set by the engineers. The turbine is just a variable.

Don't take this as judgmental: don't purchase one. A lot goes into owning one than one without. It is also a wear item and some could be expensive to maintain.

KA24DETT:

Thats a Moronic Statement you made up there. You saying it 'requires tuition which you don't have'. Its an insult with a smily face. Don't try to pull a smart one on me



I gave you reasons why cars are not tropicalized and you did not bring up ONE reason how cars are tropicalized. You are ranting up and down without supporting your agreement with the appropriate facts to back it up.


If you have information to support your argument, bring it up.



Make your point, lay out your facts how cars are tropicalized. You are being very stupid with this childish display you are pulling.
I know you wish you hadn't made that comment about tropicalization. You are bringing education into this. With your 6-10 years of schooling, you can not say how cars are tropicalized. Beating your chest about how educated you are make you sound unclannish and ignorant. Put your point across and if it makes sense, i will acknowledge.
I have given examples and scenarios to back up my argument. I expect you to do otherwise or ask for a tuition refund from the school you claimed you went to.
I will leave you with Albert Einstein Quote : "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction". A simple thing as tropicalizing you turned into something bigger.
A wise man will lay their points out to support their argument . A slowpoke reply will go the way of chest- beating, no points to support their argument and will go out of topic. I know which side you will lean on. I really lost the respect i have for you. I thought u are smarter than this.

Try harder! You've written but "said" nothing. Details and facts is what I am expecting not what you are giving. Fortunately, all the answers you need are in my initial response to you. Do some thinking and apply the information. You can quote all you want and resort to name-calling and school-yard bullying. Debunk all I have stated with facts and details. Counter all from my initial post and explain with facts where I did not make sense. I'm not swayed and you wouldn't last a minute with me with your crowd-mentality. You are wasting your time. Don't expect that I disclose further than I have explained. You did not understand; nothing will do! I'm not processing further for you to understand and be convinced. It is evident and clear that it is coherent; at the same time, it is NOT meant for everyone. Everything published post made by me on this thread is BIASED information but simple enough to convey. It is also dead-on with some rhetorical questions that reinforces the body of response and requires "reading-comprehension." If you are serious about the answer, you would leave your keyboard and interact with people.

Addressing your quote: I am puzzled to what inspired you to inappropriately make such references. It's misplaced. Apply things appropriately. I have exhibited absolutely NO violence but taken time to explain two concepts to you that requires deep thinking to be able to absorb it. It's also the simplest I can convey to you. It gets [far] complicated but will be out of scope (thread). Alternatively, the same cannot be spoken of you.

You cannot solve a problem with the same mentality that created it. Learn to see the world a-new.

"Wisdom-of-the-Crowd" is not true and tangible information. It's only survivable on the internet. It's intangible and unaccepted in the real-world. Hence, the emotional roller-coaster when confronted with facts based on core precepts. This is where the root of your problem is. Here is a quote from a book.

"In the Web 2.0 world, the crowd has become the authority on what is true and what is not. Search engines like Google, which run on algorithms that rank results according to the number of previous searches, answer our search queries not with what is most true or most reliable, but merely what is most popular. As a result, our knowledge—about everything from politics, to current affairs, to literature, to science—is being shaped by nothing but the aggregation of responses. The search engine is a quantitative historical record of previous requests. So all the search engine offers is a ranking system that feeds back to us the wisdom of the crowd. In terms of links clicked on and sites visited, Google is an electronic mirror of ourselves. But the problem is that the Web 2.0 generation is taking search-engine results as gospel."

KA24DETT: If you have information to support your argument, bring it up.

Don't feel entitled! If you are interested (beyond what I have stated), "Detroit" offers international professional seminars and trainings during it's annual conferences. Pick your concerned-module. When you are done paying the thousands of dollars for a three-day seminar, you will understand why information is not free.

As previously mentioned, ALL has been stated. No further simplification is needed. It is [to] my discretion on how my post will be conveyed and the associated narrative. Deal with it; you did not understand what I've stated so far and you started-off wrongly and you are too proud for a recourse. If it is unimportant, you wouldn't attack the content. You are just not the right "audience" to confront it. Stop seeking regurgitated information. Don't expect any more information than what I've given (that is core with conceptual references). There is a reason reading-comprehension is tested in standardised placement tests.

There is a 16 page pamphlet titled "Is Google Making Us Stupid" for less than $3.

http://www.amazon.com/Is-Google-Making-Us-Stupid-ebook/dp/B005BRENVE

You will do yourself a lot of good by considering this "second-opinion." No matter how much you spend online, you will NEVER equate to one that got tutored or trained or has paid some price or the other.

Frankly, I don't have time for your "perspective." Neither do I have time to beat on trivial matters; especially when all variables have been disclosed and the recipient fails to play his/her part in deductive-reasoning and critical-thinking. If you can't give facts and details that are intellectual-based, then bury it. You've gotten tangible responses plus a "depth" for you to view your "perception"; it's at least fair you respond in like-manner. If you have nothing, then forget it because you are wasting everybody's time and you are being a gate-keeper. That is besides the fact that the original post published was not addressed to or intended for you. I'm yet to figure what you are gaining. Nigerians will still make the intended modification if/when-need-be because they aren't driven by consumerism.

If you throw "mud" or have no fundamental reference(s) to base your facts upon, I will NOT honour but ignore it. Enough time has been spent and I've disclosed all and my objective accomplished (to create awareness). My original post still stands (that is https://www.nairaland.com/1489847/most-durable-reliable-family-car#19138453) and I appreciate your efforts detailing how displeased you are about it.

KA24DETT:

You are something else . You are here giving wrong advices and claiming its the right thing. Because of your massive ego, you can't admit you are wrong but instead deflect the conversation towards Negro. You insulted me by saying that its "below my tuition ". You are a pathetic fool.

My point..
There is nothing like TROPICALIZING A CAR. No automaker in North america does that. We have different types of climates in Northamaerica and it is the job of the automaker to make sure her car can work in all the climates. This is the condition the engineers need to take into consideration when designing the parts for a car. I don't think you know thats since u are a textbook man.

YOUR POINT
You have no point. You are running off topic and trying to turn this into what its not and that shows the level of your maturity and thinking. How did you straighten me out? By deceiving Nairalannders with wrong facts? Stop posting about what u know nothing of.


Nairalanders.
Am currently in Calgary Alberta . This morning, it is -25 ( 25 degrees below zero ), i will start my car and drive it to work no problem. 3 months ago, temperature was 28 degrees like lagos. I still started my car and drove to work. The car behaved like it was DESIGNED to.
What am trying to say is that automakers here have to make sure their car works in all extremes of weather . ITS THE LAW.
Up north in Fort mcmurray. it gets to -45 degrees . Your urine will instantly freeze immediately it hits the ground. People still drive their car to work and it works fine. There is nothing like tropicalizing your car. The Northamerica Car industry is so integrated that its crazy to imagine doing what this guy is insinuating. Ford F-150 trucks are the main work trucks in the cold oil rigs of alberta and the extreme weather of texas and california. Ford has to make sure their truck works in both temperatures. Same as Nissan , Mercedes, Toyota. US NHTSA ( National Highway traffic safety ACT ) , US DOT ( Department of transport) will not allow any automaker to sell car for specific region.

Am using this scenario to explain the extreme of temperatures in Northamerica and how automakers need to take that into consideration when designing parts for their car. Simple and straight to the point.

Quote me where I stated it was "below your tuition"?

If you can't quote me on that, then there was no basis for insult. You just ensured you reinforced your utopian view with an insult. I wondered how you thought it would be of advantage to you or add credibility to your text. That's another clause you did not understand; got it twisted - hence your response. A tenth-of-a-minute of critical thinking (that is if you heard yourself) would have left you with a conclusion of compliment. That too was omitted! You can't hold a conversation - a logical conclusion for that matter.

I made it clear that it requires tuition and you don't have it. Not even the fundamentals to sustain the tuition in question. There is no appropriate expression in the context used as "below your tuition" Tuition means: training: cognitive-discipline: tutelage! Once again, you are seeking attention and it's not helping. The mere reason you do not know what I am talking about does not evade the fact that it exist. The fact google or your t.v. show(s) does not tell you doesn't mean there is no existence to it. I will reiterate it: you lack the tuition. You can't and will not understand what I'm saying. It requires 4 - 6 years of enrollment: fundamentally not to end up with your conclusions. It's what mainstream terms "boring and needless." If you think you got educated by watching an automotive show, then you are joking. There is more to discuss on this but this is not what the thread is about. You are trying to deviate the thread and you have resorted to name-calling; besides the fact that you've said nothing. That is outside of the fact that I challenged you to debunk me and you've made no logical/cognitive attempt so far. For your information, I haven't said anything [yet]: yet the issue isn't comprehended. I wonder what occurs when I begin in context; with contextual narrative google will not be able to assist you with. Find another person to argue with.


Interesting! You must think people are gullible by the pragmatic (emotional) explanation given and you offer no scientific references. I made a simple example (of the many given - including rhetorical biomechanical references) relative to environmental science. Apples: why it grows at one end of the world and doesn't. You may not figure the mockery (at the moment) but regions experience the same temperature value(s). Yet, one is sustainable and the other isn't. Once again, the fundamentals and tuition aren't there and the context will mean nothing to you. Temperature is not the [principal] constraint. Nature also proves you wrong. There is more to this concept than meets the surface. There are legislative laws and standards to adhere to. There are consequences when you design void of standards. I've explained it all. The discussion is closed.

No further comments will do. Expect no response from me. It's getting nowhere. It's adding nothing to the thread and you are making obvious your utopian view to design and manufacturing. In a week or two, the thread will be dormant. Sheer vanity! Vanity!


Enjoy!

smartchoice: Trac do you seriously sit down to type all these?!

Sadly, when I was done, I realised how much time I had spent to address something erroneously perceived and chilled for the rest of the evening discouraged. It feels as though I am being wicked but it isn't. I forget things (conflicts) and move on. The original response is as I would advice a person standing in front of me. I felt bad for him because he has toasted his engine and he is still being ripped-off; coupled with the potential of having a thread that will span several pages with no result. Once you've toasted an engine, anything else you are doing is wasted-effort. It's not a mechanic's job. There are 17 levels of auto-mechanic/expertise levels in the U.S. It is for level 16 and 17. They are not mechanics but regarded as specialist and they are licensed. Once they are done, the mechanics can continue. Engine needs to be taken apart and verification will start visually, then the dial-indicator used to acquire offsets. He could avoid all these headaches by purchasing another engine. Look at the vapid response given: it does not address the root but maintain the problem. I didn't want to be the one to break the bad news to him because I could feel where he was coming from and had been milked-financially. The admin had no business saying anything. I don't know if he has a quota to fill on the numbers of NLers he must ban. I will exercise more caution next time.

The matter before the OP is a major job. Nothing can be done online. Warpage will be checked for. Matter also has been complicated. Why waste his time? That is for the specialist. If it needs machining.

Am I the person that was malicious or wicked? Because the blunt truth was given?! All I did was to tell him to find a qualified mechanic. The fact I did not disclose to him and bore him of the details does not mean I made any transgression.

Addressing your sentiments: that is very hypocritical of you. You’d rather have them look up to you and feed them tricks. Then, proceeding the tricks are: “Ikenna Ikenna.” As the guru, oppositions must be eliminated; even if you have to resort to sentiments: how ingenious.

I have never perpetuated the false propaganda that Nigerian mechanics are bad. My stance against that lie is strong and have taken some negative remarks from that. You are one of the ring-leaders. I have always been in favour of Nigerian mechanics because I learnt a lot through them. You are also robbing the mechanics by this stupid propaganda because of self-voyeurism. They have families to feed. By apprenticeship and work-experience, they understand their field. The understanding of tricks or pragmatic standards was taught to me by a Nigerian mechanic: a Yoruba; in the 90’s. No tricks and it will stand the test of time. Good men still exist; rare but they do. You also support the idea that it is okay to purchase vehicles that Nigerians mechanics are not completely apt to and encourage owners to resort to Google. Where have I been wrong? Is it because I have constructively corrected some people and according to their reasoning took it as an insult? Or some awareness is being created?!

This is still CAR-TALK and nothing warrants shutting it down. You are more of a nuisance than the narcissist-perception created of me. You are creating NO awareness; rather a cult. Remember Car-Doctor’s response to you about certain matters as impossible for online troubleshooting? He was trying to shield you because you were explicitly exposing yourself as inept and you took offense. We saw how it turned out. Certain issues can be resolved online (that is true). I will participate. I would have considered hazardous risks and potential(s) for property-loss as minimal or non-existent.

The valuable information (majority) on the web were published during the time it was dominated by geeks. The web wasn’t as it is today. Self-Actualised professionals disclosed a measure of information and troubleshooting. Today, the baby-boomers are not doing so. They’ve lost their retirement and they rarely get customers for service. The internet has destroyed their “market” and many aren’t doing so again. They have regrets and uncertain about the future. How many record-stores and bookstores are available

In current times, the U.S. is preparing for the collapse of the dollar. Do you think you will be able to get on the web? It cost $2-3 billion a month in electricity to power one of the data centres in the States. The centre giving free services to the world. The web may not be for long. Encourage the involvement of mechanics when applicable.

We have driven the professionals from Auto/Car-Talk. They don’t talk. They are suppressed. I am not campaigning nor discrediting anyone. I rarely click on such threads. What I have learnt from Car-Talk is what I never learnt in Africa. Thanks to many like you.

In conclusion, I am not here to favour microwave solutions. I’m not looking for internet reputation either. What you’ll get from me is the consistency of doing the right thing. I’ve always stood for that. I’ll encourage aspiring mechanics/engineers and give them information off NL (because of people like you) because it matters strongly to me.

NB: scrap that conclusion that I’m going threads silently attacking or insulting or whatever. I don’t do things that way. That’s petty and nothing gets resolved. My approach would be to open a thread and in constructive-criticism my points so that it is difficult to prove otherwise. At one point, a write-up in defense of Nigerian mechanics was in process till the issue at the MB thread caused me to think otherwise. My sources put together but I can’t publish it anymore because it would be too direct. I exercise discretion a lot more than you think.

Ikenna351:


Trac,

You have been going round the section, throwing insults to some Car Talk members indirectly, and trying to be smart about it with grammer. I was hoping you would get tired and drop it. But I was wrong.

Car Talk was created to help Nigerians discuss their cars, both negatively or/and positively, issues with their cars and solutions to get those issues sorted/fixed. And so far, we have been progressing on that. A lot of members have gotten the help here in Car Talk they couldnt get out their in workshops, from fellow members. You have no clue what Nigerians go through in the hands of some clowns that call temselves mechanics, so you need to keep your thoughts to yourself on how members can't get help online.

Car Talk is not my property, neither Nairaland is. It's someone's means of making money. Don't go about destroying someone's business. If members stop visiting Car Talk to sought for solutions to their car issues, we could as well ask the Admin, Seun, to close Car Talk, so that we all can go back to Autos section, for those who would remain in Nairaland if Car Talk seize to exist.

There are so many online car forums, if not in hundreds. People go there to help themselves in keeping their cars in good shape as long as they want/could, yet you left them them and chose to start your campaign against online car diagnosis on a mere section of a forum, that is not even a full forum. Why not start your campaign there? We have Toyotanation. Start from there. Sometimes, you think we dont know how Americans truly fix/repair their cars in those "cheap" dealership workshops. Of course, all those Youtube videos on DIY were made by Nigerians and posted online.

Nairaland members bring their Peugeots with injection issues to me. I diagnose, fix them and charge them for that. Those that would require engine to be dropped or more serious internal engine issues, i would direct them to a good Peugeot mechanic i can vouch for. But it has not stopped me from coming online, Car Talk, to offer suggestions or solutions to issues I could diagnose online, depending on how technically minded the individual/member is. So let's not kill that spirit in Car Talk, what sustains this section.

Ikenna

Ikenna, you have a guilty conscience. All you have stated is nothing that has occurred. You find yourself well placed in that perspective. You will discover why I stated so. All the misunderstandings, I look at it as past. I responded to the OP in good conscience so that he doesn't waste any more time. It was advice for his current issue not anything else. That is why I am responding to you kindly. I am also picky who I respond to. For your condescending remark on grammar, I will use urban words that you can understand. Street words! Including referencing an online dictionary! Pardon my long draft.

Being blunt is not the same as silently abusing people. When you tell people what they want to hear at the expense of the truth, it is whoredom. What you are appealing to is an utopian perspective.

To the point: the introduction of the OP cannot be grasp save for two sentences. That is: the car overheated and money has been spent. He tries to express what has gone on and the corrective measures done. He details but says nothing. The details aren’t adding. He is not a mechanic. I don’t know about you but headgaskets are not replaced as you change fuses. -----POINT NUMBER 1

If I’m correct about the OP’s disclosure, three mechanics have worked on the vehicle and still unfit to ply the roads. It is now in a condition worse than when the vehicle was started before the mishap. This is coupled with the fact an overheat has occurred. -----POINT NUMBER 2

Money has been spent and all he has gotten in return is “motion instead of progress.” -----POINT NUMBER 3

I’ve broken down to points so that it will be clear who acted maliciously (as you claim) and the “saint” that is upholding the fictitious “spirit.” The stupidity will be made clear.

POINT NUMBER 1 – the subject cannot express the occurring conditions. It is vague. Is this the basis to which you’ll offer counsel? On a bad descriptive foundation?! It is very common on NL. However, rewards are gotten and recognitions acquired as post multiply. Counsels upon unreliable and undependable collection of information! Smart, right?!!!

POINT NUMBER 2 – From my point-of-view, nothing was done. The job according to U.S. scales is for an M2 or M3. These two top the “food chain” in service and repair. Cylinder head and cylinder block specialists respectively. Vehicle overheated and these two machinist will play no role to according to your opinion.
Why is he where he is today? Tricks! Pimping! It has been pimped-out. “Trick” is a word also associated with automotive (especially in racing: in racing context, it is mostly positive). Definition!

From dictionary.com

Trick:
+ To bring about the desired result.
++ A crafty or underhanded device, maneuver, stratagem, or the like, intended to deceive or cheat; artifice; ruse; wile.
+++ The general term, refers usually to an underhanded act designed to cheat someone, but it sometimes refers merely to a pleasurable deceiving of the senses

Look up “underhanded”!

Pimping is urban for tricks. A tricked-out (pimped-out) vehicle (in this context to which we are discussing) is achieving an expected by means not standard (in the scientific community: unacceptable, eccentric). That is crooked, crafty, etc. The term is used in other context too but it’s always void of the right way. It’s clear at this point why the boastful “pragmatic” stance is/was offensive. When you are identified as being pragmatic in science and technology, it is NOT a compliment. In other words, void of “logic.” This is not the television but the real world. --it can also be used in marketing; that is – to sell a product – dynamic but that is off-point.

Moving on: his vehicle has been pimped-out and he is unsatisfied by the remarkable outcome. At this point, “every trick in the book” (this time, an idiom) does not produce the desired result, hence the internet. A concise explanation was given to him respectfully, that there is no way around this but the proper way. Examine the parts replaced. The problem is not addressed.

POINT NUMBER 3 – Money wasted, time wasted and peace of mind compromised. Is this the time to be stupid? To give the man involved less than the truth? Arbitrarily, if he was to spend $700 and the vehicle is to standard with four days of downtime, how logical is it for trial-by-error not to exceed that cost? He has wasted some money already. The competent mechanic that will work on it will not consider three previous labour done to it. He is getting his money in full.
-------------------

People should refrain from using numbers that they are unsure of. 7gtronic sounds better than the numbers erroneously stated. How does a coupled 906 to 967 sound? That is the actual description. 722.9 says nothing. I am aware of at least 4 variants of that specification.

So, expect confusion when dealing with internal numbers and sourcing the web. It is easier detailing R350 or R350 4Matic. No further explanation will be needed. Only one designation was mounted for that chassis (R350). Core information may never be on the web. People do not put information on the web. It's their source of daily-bread. So, you are urged (willfully or unwillfully) to stimulate the economy. The internet has swallowed many businesses and everyone has woken. You'll have to interact with people.

There are two possible factors. Multiband related: it's a worn clutch or brake or combination of both within the packs. Nevertheless, the transmission will have to be dissociated from the vehicle and disassembled. It's not a job that forgives the slightest clumsiness. Environment has to be clean while the overhaul is done. Choose your serviceman wisely.

mejai: My bro, pls take heart. Blame no one ryt now. Last year I had similar xperience with same model but 2006(year). Like play, d gear oil was changed and d filter yet no remedy. D tranXmsn ended up jammin. D car wouldn't move.
I can giv u dis no to call....08033729709. His name is IK, has a garage at surulere, b4 nysc office(off bode thomas).
NB: b4 I knew d guy above, my benz was fixed by m/benz place at lekki for same issue. Though dey condemnEd d gear box and a new one was both at a staggerin amount.
So u choose btw d guy(ik) or benz place. But avoid road side clowns. Goodluck.

It is great you promote these people. I do hope the original poster would take good caution and choose wisely.

uchman: ...Thanks for your contribution,it helped a lot! I tried 2 different mechanics,they all thought it was TIMING or the VALVE, worked on it still no difference...The engine revolves slowly while being kicked...Good morning...

If the diagnosis turns out inconclusive, then find someone else. Chances are: no diagnoses are being done. No help can be given online. You can waste your time and prove me wrong but it's mere logic. The competent service man will not return the vehicle after his care in the state you have mentioned. If all you want to do is remove each symptom, you can running around in favour of achieving that objective. If you really want to get your vehicle fixed, a competent mechanic is not hard to find. Someone will recommend one to you. A competent mechanic will seeks for tricks; then, he can work on the vehicle. Don't be deceived by what the web offers. There are proper ways to do so. The two mechanics you hired did not work to standard. The vehicle has to be seen onsite and interacted upon to make any conclusions whatsoever. Tests will be run. So, the cheapest route is [still] to find the competent workman that will resolve ALL the problems with no pragmatic (without application of logic) mindset.

uchman: uchman: Hello all the gurus In da house(Ikenna,Sienna...)
,please this is the 4th month now my 98 MODEL Auto Golf3 car
has been on repair,but it refused to start...The car overheated
and stopped by itself while travelling,i called the road side
mechanic,who changed the top gasket and other things he did,i
didnt start,an Electrician got involved,still same,after 1 MONTH
at Enugu,i decided to tow it down to onitsha to my mechanic
workshop,but this is now 3months the car has been in
Onitsha,still nothing good came up...I have replaced many things
like[distributor,coil,brainbox,Engine sensor],everything still
same...Now I was told to buy a new kick starter...Can kick
starter be the problem?...PLEASE HELP GURUS,COS ITZ DRIVING
ME CRAZY...thank you

I am sorry to hear about your issue. I can imagine your downtime and frustration. From the scanty information presented, two details are logical. That is an occurence of an overheat and the mechancis cleaning you out (financially). My limited encounter is with an Audi that bent valves. Twice, it bent! One as bad as 45 degrees. After much critical-thinking, the conclusion was drawn that it must have previously overheated. The owner verified so. The previous owner had overheated the engine and effects occured afterwards, so he decided to sell the vehicle and my friend bought it. Truth is: no one can really help your issue here (if you want to avoid being miserable). Siena can assist limitedly (as a dedicated specialist) but the vehicle needs to be in care of a specialist or a working mechanic. I'll recommend you appeal to the working professionals around your locality that silently log-on or ask for a competent mechanic from nearby Nairalanders. Don't be seduced by any gimmick on this matter [of yours]. It is also dangerous.


That's my little contribution.

ukandi1: are u sure the timing chain is not tampered with? it may stil be brainbox wahala. for auto, i dont think its kick starter otherwise even the gearbox wil pack up.
ikenna and sienna shud know beta

Random thoughts: It is not encouraging. It's a mechanic's job and he can't go around that. A good mechanic will NEVER take description(s) from his clients as the actuality-thereof except he is sure such client is mechanically versed and has proven himself. That's a blunt rule.

lomomike: Earlier, I made a plea for calm and peace in this thread but you people aren't heeding to my humble plea, this isn't good. Please comport yourselves and settle all disputes amicably

@Lomo::Prudence::Hansen:

I appreciate the efforts that acted as the retardant to this matter. There is only so much people can be pushed-over before reaction occurs. Simultaneously, I had to straighten-out a disrespectful nairalander that addressed me as a "negro" besides other mini-disrespectful words that were uncalled for. There are limits. You never know what anyone might currently be going through. Nobody takes slander kindly (even the fronting hypocrites). It shouldn't be appreciated here as well. We should remember that we are humans and not bots behind keyboards stringing characters. Truthfully, people are rude behind the computer and without repercussions, boundaries will never be set. The division will always be there when it comes to point-of-views. That makes us a "people." Very few will agree with my perspective. It's okay but no indirect slander.

The matter will not be drug by me any further. Neither should any mindset of competition be upheld. It gets nobody anywhere.

Cheers:

smartchoice: Trac if you have nothing meaningful to say, just get out of this thread and stop derailing it! Am sick n tired of your nuisance value and ADHD exhibitions. Have been quiet and tolerated you enough!

Choose your words carefully and your phrasal-verbs. As you do so, be sure that it is applicable to the matter addressed. We are educated people and the dictionary does the leverage. I will skip the misplaced words.

Whenever decisions are appropriated, it should be done without favoritism. You've failed on that too; which isn't smart of you (no pun intended). Blind loyalty is partial preference impending facts.

Humans are not stupid, even when they lack the details. Perception in that case is far reliable than blank ignorance. In this situation, it was plain. What he did was slander. Slander has never been taken lightly.

Websters dictionary defines the word slander as: the utterance of false charges or misrepresentations which defame and damage another's reputation.

How have I constituted a nuisance?:

* By publishing caution-posts to two forum subscribers and then labelled a "con", amidst other names he said; along with the condescending trash he wrote because I don't agree with his philosophy
or
* Slander relative to integrity and standing my ground to defend myself thus giving a lesson on life

It is a pity.

This is not a cult. There is no reason for blind-loyalty. We mock people that involve themselves in blind-loyalty and you are doing the same. It is hypocrisy. The least you could have done was judge fairly. If that was your position on the matter, you would've queried why damage-control was immediately done. It is impossible for Hansen to tell me that he wasn't referencing me. It is impossible for Hansen to prove me otherwise that it wasn't a malicious act. You can get emotional about it but the two debacles were never caused by me but Mr. Hansen [himself]. If you fail to see this, then you are a FANBOI.

You never know what people are going through. What you can't do in society, don't do so online. It is why I stated "treat everyone as you expect to be treated." Africa is known ethics and people come here and represent everything that is wrong; not minding if the world is looking or not.

I don't resort to mud-slinging; as you've done. Discuss things! That is being civilised.


Show some responsibility and do the right thing.

prudence.smart:
Trac, why dont you draw the designs and give it to Hanson to deploy? In essence , if you guys can sheat the sword and look more on your strenght, you can make a perfect compliment in this thread if you dare work together... How i wish this could happen between you two.
Trac and Hanson, i implore you guys to sheat the sword and co-opt in the real sense of the word , you could make a strong team.

First Trac , Start by deleting those strong philosophical quote of yours and reconcile with your brother. Make amends and mean it. Oh! how i wish sincerely, but i can't compel you guys. But just know that you are two different individuals, appreciate the fact that you cannot agree on terms, that doesn't make you wrong neither, perhaps if you throw more light on your subjects your distinction can be appreciated by you both and all of us at large. I know what i am saying , i have experience in this. I am very convince that both of you are right, but there're some gray areas you need to convince one another.

Contrary to what you think, I did not offend anybody. Though aggrieved [then]. I'm not demanding an apology either. You know definitely that no one shares information at this side of the world. We go strongly by ideologies. Then it is summed up as intellectual-properties. If you have noticed, professionals do not input in this forum. We drove them out because of self-voyeurism. I have tolerance and think otherwise. Gracefully, I'm slowly trying to integrate some of these "things" into this thread (but I have to think it through) because I believe in independence but the environment is not as conducive. That's why I brought the suggestion relating to organisation. Subject matter: he deleted his original post; therefore making it as though I started out of the air unneeded friction. Fortunately, I quoted him and links of references. Why he took it as an insult - I don't know. Sincerely, there is no grudge - take my word for it. I don't have the time for that. There are better things to do. If he (or anyone) reads it differently (that is void of emotions), you will find out that its a strong advice against the uplifted shame. It is in text and it is subject to the readers interpretation.

Re: I got to know the automobile via engineering. I will always reference and "see" the automobile through the scales of engineering. I requested data of common problems in Nigeria. My intent was to aggregate and put to analysis, "problems" and "solution." This approach, governed by standard engineering practice(s) will resolve the multiple posts and confusions/myths/malpractices. Everyone will have to step-up to that standard because it will be structured; at least suitable for the layman. It's Benz: the details will be narrowed; as oppose to generalised motoring. It might take weeks but it's coming. If it won't be received well, [then] I won't publish it. So far, I am still gathering. Resolving issues on case-by-case basis repetitively is not an efficient way to problem-solving (at least here). When centralised, application of knowledge is induced. There is no way everyone will be happy about it but you can't please everyone.

It's all good.

au.hanson:
Sorry to disappoint you Trac, i'm not in for this protracted illness with you, wasn't born and brought up this way . Maybe you could find some one else to feud with; there may be many readily available to do just that with you,but not me. You may have succeeded in luring me to it in the first instance, being your nature not mine, but that was the last, i'm too busy for such inconsequentials at the moment.

So these whole bitterness was about Hanson, all the gigs and symphony? Oh mehn! that 's serious..was just curious and decided to throw in the game at the slightest opportunity that presented itself just to prove a point budd. Dont worry i wont publish the result here but bury within me, only the discerning mind can get these.

Now that i have prove my points, and i've drawn the conclusions of my experiment with you, now i know who you are..but why the lies about not holding grudges against Hanson?

One more thing, dont work up yourself just yet, cos i have deleted the post that got you so upset surprisingly(a rational plain minded woundn't). If there is anything else you want me to do so that you could be at peace with Hanson just let me know budd. or should i leave the thread for you if the name Hanson causes you nausea? you dont need to answer straight so that other buddies would know , you may do it codedly or send me pms, i will understand and do just that for you- I can sacrifice that for you, atleast let your mind be at peace with Hanson

Treat others as you want to be treated and there will be no problem. Do not play the victim; I saw through the whole thing. There are no grudges. You were put on check. My expressions were clearly scripted. You don't undermine anyone's intelligence and that was the third time you had done that. If I had grudges, I would have responded to the pragmatic remark you made and it would be impossible for you to debunk it (it has already been written). You'll only be left with the option to throw "mud." My response to you (that is the prologue) was counsel that calls for re-evaluation; the real world. I found nothing funny. Condescending remarks under the canopy of "democratic" approval! It has/d an underlining message unfit for society, broadly. At this point, you should figure that I don't "play." Neither do I appreciate "games." I don't log-in to play as the vast majority of Nairalanders do: to be unserious. Each post count is taken with a measure of seriousness.

With consideration and caution, a recommendation (Behr) was made to you. You turn around a few months later and magnify yourself as you mock. I don't pick on you directly or indirectly; or make side-comments. In [my] humility, you've gotten respect from me. Don't play on my intelligence. If you haven't notice - well notice now - I don't critique or correct you. It is out of respect (that is: of your person). Do you think I am impressed by what posts/remarks? Certainly not! However, I owe you the fundamental right to be respected; unless proven otherwise! Don't grieve anyone. Regard everyone as you want to be regarded and nobody will have to straighten out your conduct.

Draw whatever conclusion you feel like. It's your problem. I'm not the pragmatic type.

instinctg: All dis yabs no need na, OP which car u come choose abi all their oyinbo don add to ur confusion?

People believe that behind the mask of a keyboard they can be anything and talk anyhow. No insults came from me; I just "straightened-him-out." His posts had insults in them. He had no reason in the first place to single me out and tell me what I have said was mute when he lacked the understanding roundabout. Thus rendering the content written as void of reasoning. I was serious when I put it together; I wasn't asleep. I am still wondering who he thought he was impressing.

I can call anybody on earth by their first name. When it comes to Nigerians (or neighbours with like-culture), it is conditionally true. Hierarchy is fundamental in Nigerian culture. Those within your peer and below, are addressed by name or pseudonyms. Those older are addressed via salutation (at least general salutation as a form of honour). I am not expecting salutations (I don't like them). There is no room to address any Nairalander as "negro." The word in that context has a lot of history behind it. Furthermore, he is trying to educate me on that slur as though I was born yesterday. It might be okay in def-comedy-jam, it is not in the real world. That is besides the fact that he violated rule#1, 2 & 3 of NL's posting rules. For every action, there will always be a negative reaction. There is only so much people will take.

prudence.smart:
Please house, permit my unusual approach, all protocol observe.

I have a benz c180 94 model far back home in Nigeria, to be precise in PH with my mum, just yesterday she told me that the car entered a limb mode while she was driving. She narrated that she entered one unusual road that was so terrible, in some instances she had to put off the ac as the car would attempt to enter a limb mode under hard maneuvering, then at a point she couldnt bear the heat and dust than to just keep the ac life throughout the rough terrain , but unfortunately the car finally entered a limb mode and nothing she did could revive the vehicle, it had to be finally towed back home after having run down the battery and affected the kick badly.

Initially the car would crank but remains very powerless, could not accelerate when engaged the gear, now it cant even remain in idling anymore

Someone is coming to install a new key and bendit, and i have caution her not to stress the new kick untill i come home at christmas hols if solution could not be offered.

House please help: au.hanson, Ikenna, Trac and all others your input and wonderful expertrate is welcome here. Thanks in advance.

Also,according to her initially before this incidence, the engine use to have a little noticeable shaking when first crank in the morning as though the engine sitting were bad or the water pump, where you have the hydrualic fan was making some unusual sound as in rattling.

Smart-Prudence:

There is very little (if not none) that could be done online. The vehicle has to be on-site for any kind of diagnoses to be done. One thing I will tell you is NOT to install any key or whatever you have stated. That is not anywhere remote to the problem. There are a couple of things wrong. There is also nothing wrong with the ignition. Advice your mom to leave the vehicle as it is till someone is qualified to work on it. Lots of tests will have to be done. Personally, I've never seen a C180 physically. The model tradeoffs is what I don't know for it wasn't as equipped.

For goodness sake DO NOT REMOVE THE WATER PUMP. Contrary to what people have said and practiced here, bolts in reference to upper and lower block should never be removed unless necessary. They are aerospace material, prestrained and compensate under operation. You cannot put them back because of the mechanical laws of that material. You never remove parts unless you are sure or you have some bolts. If the pump is bad, there will be excessive clearance and rattling is not what you will hear.

The vehicle is not difficult to work on. The symptoms appear compound but the problem roots might only be one or two. For that generation, the vehicle going into limp-mode might mean an electrical related issue (that is, based on what you've stated). When you get home, you might realise it isn't as serious as presented to you.

au.hanson:


God bless you my brother, i was almost killed here when i stated that i found 87 degrees celcious( it was 87degrees i said) whaler brand in absence of Bher and its what is installed in my benz c180 till date(for almost 2 years now). I am still waiting to see the day it will fail, i am experimenting this, i like proving things practically, i like taking pragmatic approach to things, thats why we are the enlightened specie. Why should i spend a million naira to import thermostat , when i could get a 1000 naira own here to do the work perfectly well? even if it's to buy 2 of them and keep as spare, tho i dont even have a spare..Technology has so much advanced in recent time that the gap is so much narrowed to eliminate a lot of such fears. Experiment things for once and prove points

With no ounce of disrespect, here is my script in response to this subtlety. Do not take it the wrong way. It is not a rant.

“It seems to me a fundamental dishonesty, and a fundamental treachery to intellectual integrity to hold a belief because you think is useful and not because you think it's true.”

― Bertrand Russell

You almost killed. Another example of self-exaltation.
https://www.nairaland.com/1087033/reliability-c180-w202s-general/1#14664057

You didn’t answer till 5 days. Who shoved it down your throat?
https://www.nairaland.com/1087033/reliability-c180-w202s-general/2#14740920

The overall response was given
https://www.nairaland.com/1087033/reliability-c180-w202s-general/2#14764710

Follow-up
https://www.nairaland.com/1087033/reliability-c180-w202s-general/2#14808026

Conclusion fore-aft
https://www.nairaland.com/1087033/reliability-c180-w202s-general/3#14820349
https://www.nairaland.com/1087033/reliability-c180-w202s-general/3#14837214

I never knew it was a dumb thing looking out for another. March 8, 2013 to November 2013 is almost two years; according to your calculation?! Credible! It is all in writing. Sooner, you will disclose that you had an installation and it’s lasted 10 years and going strong.

No insult(s) intended. I'm analytical. For clarity, I will use quotes from a Mathematician and this is taught in Sociology and Philosophy.

“A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.”

― Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy

“The opinions that are held with passion are always those for which no good ground exists; indeed the passion is the measure of the holders lack of rational conviction.”

― Bertrand Russell, Sceptical Essays

When you are confronted on a matter to defend your cause, you will state that you are an engineer. Ikenna can make that statement and get away with it. He will never understand [even] if it is broken down to him. Such is life. A simple sentence will render all he has said useless: the sentence is “prove it!” It is a task logically impossible when tested against industrial standards of contemporary manufacturing. However, a person with a background in engineering cannot escape such magnitude of ignorance. Two major branches of engineering is responsible for this: "quality control" and "quality assurance"; senior year courses for immediate preparation into the real world. It is also field of expertise in western civilisation. Why do we have people making 6-figures in this role?! Seriously speaking – the Nigerian stereotypes are appearing to be true.

Statistics do not lie. The Behr/Wahler decision was by Mercedes [themselves]. You DO NOT get Mercedes publications; do you? Where were you during the campaign? You’ve not owned a Merc for long. You've never taken an engine apart to do a rebuild. I’ve removed the official publication that MB issued for the awareness with respect to cooling that I uploaded when I begun in this thread. Why is Wahler difficult to get a hold of in the United States and readily available in Nigeria? At the generic auto part store, Wahler is not sold. At MB, it is not sold. Would you be able to convince Americans otherwise?

Whatever you do to your vehicle is for you. Do not give that as a surety to another when practice is out of scope. Nobody will buy a car with aftermarkets parts everywhere. However it sounds logical to you. Quality Control and Quality Assurance: the answers are there; 9 months in total and you are done.

“There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge. One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision.”

― Bertrand Russell

There is a problem with our generation: people feel entitled. Technology has not improved. Don't expect anyone to look after your "business" because you have cash to pay for it. Billions of dollars has been passed by the government into research on how to make the light bulb last shorter. This is the real world that you are living in. You are purchasing more but acquiring less.

This has nothing to do with ego, unless I would have brought in product design/engineering (my expertise). Designing a product to fail after a certain period or under certain conditions is normal practice. It requires precision. Lifecycle is determined by engineers or management based on different factors. I'm also certified to design parts for the automotive vehicle since 2008. We will never perceives related matters the same way. I don't brag about anything. If you want an old idea of the depth of understand, look up my previous screenname. You will not understand anything because it is intellectually-discerned and I did not mind making a fool of anyone that tried to discredit.

There is a structure for everything. Replacing a blown fuse has an ideology to follow before replacement. How much more complex cases. Are we still going to continue the myth of the “black man”??!

There is NO such thing as pragmatism in science engineering or troubleshooting. The white-man will ask you what school you graduated from and will motivate you to continue talking. Africans can do such and be considered normal. Such is not done in western civilisation. If you’ve heard what the whites have said about Nigerians, you’ll be shocked but we are quick to call it racism. Their perception of the black man is difficult to debunk because of the overwhelming evidences that supports their theories. It doesn't mean its perfectly true.

This is how the world views the black man and you are reflecting this. He shouldn't be mistaken for a pastor. Ignore the errors as well.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0stJkUWUyM

This is the nicest sayings you will get from the issue “the black man has built nothing in today’s civilisation.” Hear the white man's perception. Buy books written by white men and don’t reference the racist card and see if there isn’t some truth to it. You will change your views instantaneously. I will stop here at this "junction" for the sanity of this thread. The above clip was an insight to a perspective [far] deeper. People are quick to term them racist.

In comprehensive summary:
“Logic was, formerly, the art of drawing inferences; it has now become the art of abstaining from inferences, since it has appeared that the inferences we feel naturally inclined to make are hardly ever valid.”

― Bertrand Russell, Sceptical Essays

prudence.smart:


Trac, dont fall to the foolish paradise.You are a good man so are others, appreciate useful comments/contributions/criticism by other strong minds in this very acts .Be matured , dont carry grudges against anybody, its a thing of the little mind. They stand as a check to what is practically in practice to the locality in question, so all must be carried along.

I left Nigeria few years ago , but i have come to know that the operational conditions abroad here is quite different from what is obtainable locally there too

Just like in the issue of engine oil, you cant use synthetic oil in Nigeria for more than 9 months if yours is a daily ride. Infact, you'll be compell to change them in 6 monthly interval contrary to your opinion of 15month that is achievable here abroad. A lot of factors stem more theoretical than practicable at home , you need to consider the home factors too

Truly, I don’t carry grudges against anyone. Our temperaments are different as individuals. Some are confrontational and some aren’t. Some think things through and many don’t. I don’t mind criticism as long as it is forward-thinking and evidences are presented to aid the cause. However, I detest conjuring criticisms based on the necessary lack of fundamentals. I don’t term this criticism but mockery. Before you realise the person-in-question is inept, two or three posts would have ensued. At this time, name-calling creeps in. That’s why I don’t correct anybody except a few. There is peace in this approach. I also learn from those few. As oppose to the other approach where conflicts arise. I will always speak from standard industrial approaches. The problem with people is that they believe democratisation of information is automatic truth.

It is true what you have said.

The oil reference you made is your perception. That same specification of oil is used for racing. Nigerians are not racing. For the record, I gave a factor-of-safety of a three month reduction; that is 12 months. Mobil guarantees a 15 month/15,000 miles guarantee. I have not stated anything on NL that I never did in person. Currently, I'm using a tier-5 oil and December will be my 24th month on a single installation of European formula (not Mobil 1). It is a large-bore, high turbulent flow engine and produces a lot of heat. In the summer, coolant temperature in some instances exceeded 100/115degC. The lubricant at the moment is still good but oil analysis report will give the conclusive verdict. I can take the risk due to the resources that avail me. I can't recommend anyone to do this. The maximum I have gone with Mobil 1 SuperSyn is 18 months; 3 months above specifications. My parents always replace their crankcase lubricant every December. This, as far back as the 90's (in Nigeria). It's always been Mobil and the current tier group did not exist then. You can give the oil companies money if you want. I investigate how things work. Except one owns a Rolls Royce that is 4 years old and older, spending money on cars is not an investment. Economy is why I disclosed it. When an oil test is done afterwards, you can tell if the lubricant is good or not and the condition of the engine.

Ikenna351:

Sticky! Seriously? Unless I didn't get you right.

So, MB thread needs to be stickied right? What happens to those important threads too like Peugoet, VW, Honda, Mazda, Toyota, BMW, etc.? So all those threads should be stickied as well? Or only MB thread should be stickied because its more important than the others? What do you think will happen in the 1st page of this Car Talk when all these threads are stickied?

When a member asked questions or seeks a solution to an issue that has been treated earlier, you can ask the member to go back a bit and search for the solution to the issue already discussed. Or you refer him to the exact page of the thread if you know. And there is nothing wrong in asking one to go back and start from the beginning to find solution to his Benz issue(s), which will be beneficial to the member, knowing other tips or knowledge he/she acquire by the time he/she gets to the last page. Thats why we have Libraries for reserach; thats why we have Car Talk Library.

Visit Peugeot thread to see how we do it over there. For example:

https://www.nairaland.com/1003701/peugeot-thread-psa-community/41

https://www.nairaland.com/1003701/peugeot-thread-psa-community/42


Breaking this thread or creating MB thread II will make this very thread meaningless. All the important discussion and tips on MB on this thread will be lost. Because attention will be focused on the new thread, and the very thing you guys are complaining here will take effect in the new thread, since you will have to start all over to repeat what has been discussed here in the new thread, instead of moving on.

Anyway, like you noted, just a suggestion. But note that other similar threads are moving on and no house members are complaing, like Peugeot is now on 42 pages.

But if you guys really want an MB II thread, you can present your case to the Admin. You guys may be lucky and he will grant your request. This is my last comment on this.

Ikenna

I am not referring to the same “sticky.” In-thread stickies and not global stickies. In other words, stickies within MB’s thread. I dropped the MB Thread II matter.

Your point on splitting the thread was understood and accepted. You are correct on it and I’m not in dispute of it. It is the organisation relative to referencing. For the common questions that most would have, a one-size-fits-all answer would have been indexed on the first page of the thread.

The other aspect I suggested was to gather certain known problems that are associated to the Nigerian culture and address them detached to this thread. Coming to thinking of it, it’s also a bad idea. So, I’ll scrap that thought as it only creates more fragmentation.

Archived-post-referral seems to be the only logical way (if it works at the Peugeot thread).

KA24DETT:

Negro please, u cannot belittle me.
FACT- When u are designing a car for the NA market, u have to make sure that it is relaible and durable to withstand all the climatic conditions that can be experienced in North america. These condition include Very hot summer in Arizona and las vegas, very cold winters in Canada. No automaker in NA designs cars for different tropical condition here. It will not make economic sense and moreover what if the customer decides to move from Canada to California? What happens?
Dude, you are just yabbing and this is not about having the required "tuition".
You keep on jumping from one intellectual argument to another. Now, u talking about international code. U might know automotive but u don't know nothing about NA market, North america Weather or the business when it comes to designing cars.
I used MB as an experience since you are quite familiar with the brand. Am a Nissan guy not an MB guy.
In an argument, you have to present facts in a way an 8 yr old kid will understand.
Am bringing it down to ECONOMICS.
No automaker would tropicalize a car for Africa. No business sense in that. It cost billions in dollars and years to push a car out and any automaker would want his return on investment. Because of the astronomical cost in pushing a car out, most automakers are moving towards alliance to save cost. e.g "Nissan -renault alliance.
Africa auto industry has not matured in a way to dictate standards so we use European and american standards and the buyers decide what to choose.
Now, i never said there is a world standard. European has their standard from bumper heights to automatic leveling headlamps required in all new cars. Canada requires DRL (Daytime running lights) on all cars but US don't require it. Every Jurisdiction has their own requirement and so most automakers adhere to that.
In Canada, we are more aligned to the US because it is a bigger market and having the same standards in cars would be easier for trade. Most GM, FORD and Chrysler cars are made in Canada
YOU ARE WRONG. Yes, its okay to be wrong once in a while. The maturity is knowing when you are wrong and moving on.

Preferentially, I take flight when potential conflicts will occur and in favour of being civil, I drop the matter. In this case, I will stand my ground and mirror you. Before I proceed, never address me as a negro again. You have crossed the line and behavioural analysis of the nuisance you have constituted will proceed. The following quotes are based on social-science (sociology).

“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”

― Bertrand Russell

“One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision.”

― Bertrand Russell

To equate temperature with climate shows how much you know. The mere fact that you cannot answer questions asked proves a lot as well; for it would have been a retardant with respect to the view you are misconceptually holding on to. In defense, you resort to insults and racial slur.

“A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.”

― Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy

You may think what you have said is brilliant and others that share the same plane on that stance but to professionals, it is stupid. It is NOT the real world. You don’t know where I am coming from and you do NOT know my background and the qualifications to speak on the matter. I am not an amateur as you erroneously stereotype others to be.

The television box does not owe you anything. The fact something is held as mainstream does not mean it is true. Let that sink deeply. Frankly, you don’t know anything. For the mere reason you were able to read and acquire to a limited measure a depth of comprehension does not mean we are on the same plane. You’ve not helped the thread at all. You are acting as an obstruction of flow to the thread for mere recognition and you are doing a bad job at it.

“The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widely spread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.”

― Bertrand Russell

“If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way.”

― Bertrand Russell

I will give you an advice. It is better you keep your mouth shut and people think of you as a fool than to open your mouth and completely wipe every doubt. Try harder debunking what I’ve comprehensively posted and make references; otherwise, reserve your comments. While you are at that, learn some manners.

As quote [reference] number three details, nothing will make sense to you because you don’t have the tuition. Therefore, it’s a waste addressing what you fundamentally lack.

KA24DETT: Listen, What you are saying does not make sense in the business world. It is not and will not be cost effective to design a car that for tropical and other conditions. Pick up your map, look at continental USA ( Canada and Mexico ), Every automaker MOST design their car to go the extreme of temperature. Very cold weather in Yukon and Death valley in California. There are 4 seasons in new England and 2 seasons in California. The temperature variation is crazy over here. Admit it when u are wrong. Gosh. All these engineering terms u are yapping does not make sense. MB will not design a car for Africa because it is not economically feasible. They will never recoup the investment. You talking about billions of dollars in design. Same thing over here, MB will not design for tropical and cold regions of US.Its an absurd idea.

It doesn't make sense to you because you don't have the required tuition. What I presented to you is "product-design" in design-engineering perspective. Just as fashion-designing is not mainstream (even if you think you know it). You do not know where I am coming from nor the depth of the scope. There are legislative laws, international laws and codes that manufacturers must adhere to. There is no "one" standard; just as the world is not one. Furthermore, reaction-kinetics is different around the world. This is another engineering consideration that cannot be easily unified comprehensively due to trade-offs. You do not know MB very well neither do you know automotive as a broad, lest you would have understood in clear terms all I have expressed.

KA24DETT: The example you are giving is far from car design. We talking about business sense here and am telling you its cost effective to design a car that would suit all climate in the US. Electric car has not taken off in the US because people are worried about charging stations. People want to drive from NY to LA without thinking about being stranded in the middle of the road. Same analogy can be brought over in Cars, MB will not design a car for different temperatures of US. No one will take you serious. The government will not allow that to happen. You test your cars in different climates and you design parts to withstand stress from different climatic conditions. That's the job of an engineer.
I can't imagine ford designing F-150 (Best selling car in US) for work rigs in Alberta and hot regions of phoenix. Lol

With all due respect: constructively criticise! Use facts for facts! I find it offensive when mud is given in response to analytical/detailed points. I gave you product-engineering (as a summary) and I expect to be responded-to in like terms; lest you shouldn't have discredited in the first place. I don't want your opinion; it's wrong and you are entitled to that. The CLA [or whatever] video you have watched is journalism or general entertainment. All you watched was an "activity" with commentary. If it were core in details, you will not be able to understand anything because it is subsidiary-tier information. It is unacceptable to base facts off a T.V. segment without fundamental references. There is more to product-design that you currently think.

As stated earlier, it requires tuition. You don't know (or cannot descry) what I'm putting to details; that's why it appears nonsense to you. There is nothing wrong with that perception; it is perfectly understood.

Disclaimer: It may appear as a rant but it isn't neither am I belittling. We are wasting the time of others in this thread if we continue and I'll rather not - plus it is not profitable to you. Let's not make this deviate the thread.

kuntash:

bro, there is no more or less to anything that u are not seeing. its a normal nairaland thread response pattern ..,

before this time, I could recall how much I advised the site owner, Seun, on the need to have seperate thread aside sell sell sell on auto section... alas, it came to existence... so I think we all should be happy to talk about how to use and repair and maintain the vehicle we must have bought from nairaland.

there are threads i have started that didnt pass more than one or two responses. mercedes benz has been a popular brand of car even in the days of our grand fathers, however, its maintenance appeared vague or complicated to many people.

and this thread came in when the relatively successful w202 became very popular in this part of the world, and remember also that this thread made a front page!


on the issue of repetitive queries and responses, it could be attributed to ur absence for a considerable period..... thus spot-on answers were scarce ..

again, the administrator wouldn't have issues redirecting the thread after a 99th page. so no worries.... I have seen it happen on the ever popular, "Real cost of building a six bedroom duplex" that was almost aired on CNN .... (I beg make una no quote me o .. Lol )


lastly, many of us like me arent that patient to read thru , thread by thread to get already answered queries, ......

nonetheless, I have gained immersely by way of this thread and has helped many even car and part dealers by way of it..

thanks alot Trac ...


@ all, attempt to go thru pages one to eight , its most likely u would find answers...especially for benz newbies

Goodness! I will have to accept it as fact that organisation will not be a priority :-(
Well - I did not write the codes to NL neither did I beget it. I'll at least appreciate immediate notifications via e-mail upon response and an effective integrated PM. I will love to utilise PM's than sending personal e-mails.

It is true people will not go through "trailer-loads" of texts to sift what's necessary. It is very understandable. However, the purpose of publishing text on this thread is for everyone; not for the trending moment alone but future referencing as well. Then again, the limitations of this thread forbid easier references. Stickies would have resolved a lot of the undesired outcomes. This will avoid rummages. It will also resolve to near-zero the repetitive posts.

This thread is good. I would never have invested time into it if it wasn't worth it. However, I had to withdraw to avoid dominating the thread and gaining recognition along with preferential status. I detest such kind of utopian control. When there is equality, partial-preferences are almost non-existent.

Moving forward: with the limitations presented to us; there are ways around it (definitely outside of the administrators jurisdiction). Common problems will be categorised (that is collected in data). The categories will then be addressed (at least, discussions that will not need workshop tools). So far, we've only covered cooling. Above all: we may have to appeal to the dealers in the car-section to purchase certain essentials. At surface level, they may seem unnecessary but in actuality, they do.

The pre/post-war models were completely engineered. In other words, all that was necessary to be done was done before the production phase. Parts may cost but the dependability was certain. From my estimation (that is if all is done right), the total cost for the next 10 years should be approximately $2,000/$3,000 (major repairs only) in Nigerian economics. The approximated cost diminishes when labour cost in Nigerian economics is readjusted (meaning lower). The dynamics change when the wrong parts are used or unorthodox approaches done. We will need to itemise aspects/areas and build information around them (relative to Nigerian geo-space). This way, fair knowledge-base can be built.

It's just a suggestion. It may/mayn't sound okay but it's my two-cents