I'm not a chemist and I don't understand the chemistry of camphor. Nevertheless, I can still apply logic. Extensive research has been put into mechanic-in-a-bottle as fuel and carbon treatment. This is my first time hearing camphor in a car. I thought camphor was to absorb moisture (maybe I'm thinking of the wrong substance). If the goal is to absorb moisture, all that should be done is nothing. The gasoline in its adulterated state will do that just fine. The fuel isn't being enriched and camphor doesn't burn to produce enough energy to heat one pound of water by one degree Fahrenheit; so it isn't adding thermal energy to the fuel.

Many don't believe in the fuel treatment mechanic-in-a-bottle. Siena is one of them. There is every reason to after the fact. However, newer research has faintly proven otherwise with tests to control deposits and they got approved for deposit control. Of all the products in stores, only two (or a handful) companies have shown/proven their test; one approved by German manufacturers. Maybe a compromise was made because adulterated fuel is what is currently sold in the market plus to curb warranty labour or it really does work. I can't say but it had always worked for me.

If camphor was the deal, it would have been slightly modified, polished in name and patented. Chevron would not have spent years and millions of dollars coming up with their formulation.

au.hanson:


If i can get this basic circuitry, i can make do with it..I think i know what to do, If i can get a direct Benz c180 tokumbo that comes with manual tranny, and has not been tampered with, i'll get all the information i need from there. Cheers

On the contrary, the cooling still remains where it is with the viscous fan left at the factory settings(untampered). You and I knows that this car(Benz C180) does well with the viscous fan alone when your thermostat is still in order. I have test driven this car under the most stringent condition with the viscous fan alone and the system still worked perfectly ok.(Benz 190 wouldn't stand it).Some of these cars never came with the 2 external fans(electrical fans). What happened then when my fan stopped working,was that there was a partial contact between the connecting wires that connected the electrical fans to the relays(since i was using old wires),it wasn't the factory behavior as you stated( I went back to it, flips the wires at the front with my hands, they stop working, flip again they started working; that confirms that); Perhaps, when you hit gallops, with the nature of our road, it will lose contact and so on.

The rationale behind this is that, the ac unit adds extra load on the system, and the condensing coil needs a kind of air especially in tropical zone like ours to help cool the compressed air that the ac compressor sends to these condensing coils.The logic here is that, these external fans help the condensing coils to effectively cool these bundle of hot air/gas back to liquid( latent heat of vaporisation) before the air get back to the evaporator through the expansion valve and so on and so forth, this i have explained earlier.

So in my case, this fan is only provision for the ac units/load, has nothing to do with factory alteration of the cooling system( "Iron and aluminium differences in co-efficient of expansion" doesn't warrant here). The laws of Physics and electricity are well obeyed in this context.

When the ac is done at the desired temperature, the ac thermostat cut off the power from the ac/the external fans since they come from the same power source from the panel, so 'warping so hard such that you might get another head' can't happen here.

I don't know if you get the logic?

Now lets face fact, Mercedes Benz engineers didn't come to Africa when they were designing their cars for decades, the obvious happens here on a daily basis: I have seen a lot of toks(not even the modified ones) opened bonnet on our roads because of overheat..that is why despite their cooling systems design, single cells radiator has to change to double cells/or external fans provisioned in front to cope with this. No one would tell you not to change your radiator from single to double cells or otherwise, if you wouldn't want to lose your top Cylinder Gasket.

I like being practical,everything in life isn't just black and white, there are always some gray areas:

1. Mercedes Benz ac Compressors are a heck of trouble over here, that's why many including myself changed to Peugeot Compressors,because i don't have that kind of money to be spending on it.

2. Their cars that came with single cell radiator suffered so much overheat over here, that's why you see people change to double cell radiator/provisioning external fans to it. I change my Benz 190 from single cell radiator to double after having lose my top.

3. I added external fan to her(Benz 190) ac unit because of same overheat over here after having lose my top for the second time. I don't have to wait for Mercedes Benz engineers to come to Africa to see the reality on ground before doing this, not after all these experiences.

And many more...

Hanson,

I shouldn't be explaining principles to you but to relate to you in like-understanding. From what Nigerians have explained to me, I believe and assume that you have background in processes. In other words, manufacturing processes.

In all that I have scripted, if you were sensitive, you would have picked the clue (if you thought deeper). Iron and aluminium do not expand equally. They don't dissipate the heat equally. The fan setup is to control preheating for even heat transfer and expansion. The upper and lower engine is held together by aerospace-grade elastic bolts. The viscous fan comes on at extreme temperature and in my personal experience, I won't depend on it. I have had a spark plug break at high speed because of the high heat when the safety fuse of the electrical fans went out. With your setup, you will damage the head because of uncontrolled heat transfer. Scientific laws will not change. There are also many issues you will face but that is completely irrelevant. If it was not fitted with an air-conditioner, there are variables to consider but you cannot usurp the heating/cooling specification for the engine.

There are many parts of the United States hotter than Nigeria. Yet these cars operate at factory and Nigerians buy them used.

The statement you made about the Germans not visiting Nigeria is an apology, frankly. Before a car is released to production, it is taken to one of the hottest places on earth and tested for month and data is collected. The same applies to the coldest regions (where it is nothing but ice) and it spends months there in testing. You are not smarter than the engineers; lest you should be working there. The car you bought has a Benz logo on it. In other words, it passed the minimum standard Mercedes guaranteed for that model. You were sold a Mercedes Benz.

cretin: well most of the cheap oil in nigeria 20w 50, visco 2000, mobil xhp, seahorse etc........n thats what the average nigerian is using to service his car.......i was still part of that group until 18months ago.......now i use mobil 1 0w 40 4k miles/4months change interval......oil is cheap...i rather change my oil too frequently than wreck my motor cos of inadequate oil change....
i know the heart ache i had when i had sludge in my toyota engine.......cos it took a while to eventually clear out all the sludge n stop the oil lamp from coming on intermittently...never wanna go down that route again!

Using 0w-40 in a Camry or Japanese car of like-specification will spoil the engine. 20w-50 will accelerate the mishap. Why not get a standard 50 weight oil; its cheaper and the same damage [still] occurs.

If you use M1, you do not need to change the oil every 4 months or 4,000 miles. You can replace it every 12 months or 12,000 miles or go the entire route and replace in 15 months, 15000 miles. 0w-40 M1 or any oil is not to be installed on any Japanese car (maybe a Suburu). The formulation is different and does not subscribe to the Japanese philosophy of production engines.

In my personal experience, I use oil for more than 12/15 months. I never believed in all that 2 month rhetoric. The crude type should be avoided.

akanxpress: Pls what's the correct ATF specification for 1990 Benz 230e. A friend used Abro and the gearbox is not ok at the moment.
Secondly, where can one buy just the TCU ( automatic gear brainbox) for benz. Cos most parts dealers prefer to sell it with the gearbox .
I'll appreciate phone contact and address of the dealer. Thanks in advance

The correct specification is the MB synthetic automatic transmission fluid. I believe the 1990 rolled off the factory with the MB automatic fluid installed. If not, there was a recall to the transmissions and it was resolved using the MB reformulated fluid. The fluid is not your traditional Dexron III fluid. Its inherent properties are different.

KA24DETT: The answer is READ. Go online and read about cars and their problems and fixing it .
Cars are easy to work on if you have an idea . Remenber it's all nuts and bolts. That's all.
There are lots of forums online to help you learn. Having a car would be helpful.

Buy or download HAYNES MANUAL. It will teach you the basics in maintenance When u know the basics, we go from there .

You read online and you end up with nonsense. If the solution is what you are offering, then schools should have folded up and degree curriculum phased out. It is easy to know those that went on google to learn anything. They will repeat and are always wrong. Many that claim they know something don't make it through auto school. The exams are stupidly simple; yet...!

This is not a good way to counsel anyone that would be rendering such as service to customers as a professional. Without rudiments and fundamentals, one knows nothing.

There are 17 areas to automotive. Google barely covers 6 of them; the information is of questionable quality and heavily fragmented. You cannot go around this without adequate trainings and experience.

Haynes manual! No comments!

yungboss: Trac please could you send to my mailbox too, oshoikekhai@yahoo.com? Please i would be grateful and want to learn a thing or two too.

YungBoss,

I made an abridged version on post #17. It was personal communication but lengthy and unsuitable for a public post. This was so because I did not know how to start and what to put down. To make it easier to read, I applied formats to it. It was informal and I explained some of the points stated. So, it was indirectly an informal e-mail that I structured for ease-of-reading.

ojeniyi.:
@k24dett, i gat your point and i will get those manuals online even if am gonna use my pocket money or feeding allowance but we have to understand the fact that the online stuffs can never be substituted for real automotive class and workshop training. As for that aspect that you said 'having a car would help', i am just an undergraduate from a family slightly below Nigerian standard of middle class, i guess the car aspect is not feasible and unrealistic in anyway atleast for now. THANKS ALOT for your contribution.

Don't waste your money. Nothing can replace being a disciple under a well disciplined teacher. Don't take the above approach. There is no shortcut to it in any way. You aren't gambling but will be working professionally as service to customers vehicles. Reading the book recommended is a joke. You don't learn anything online either. You will end up as what the British call a "petrol-head." That is a highly passionate car enthusiast void of the understanding of vehicular principles. There is a huge difference between a $30,000+ service education plus training versus going on google. The book he has prescribed will never stimulate conceptual brainstorming neither does it detail hidden/deep knowledge. If I am not making sense, source out the nairalanders that are practicing service techs, mechanics and engineers and query. They don't spit their job ins-&-outs and technical "reserves" out. People don't play with their job security. That's why they aren't vocal on NL. Those that carry the grandmaster titles paid a price while sacrificing time and the governing body put a seal of certification to it.

ojeniyi.:
I don't know how to thank you for your contribution. Infact, i have never met anyone like you ever since 2009 i registered on this forum, helping someone you 've never set your eyes on is incredible, Trac is 1 in a million african.

You are so welcome.

Godspeed to you.

ojeniyi.:
Thanks so much bro, you have just sown a seed in someones life. Do you know of any nice AUTOMOBILE REPAIR WORKSHOP in Nigeria where i can apply as an IT student or enroll as an apprentice, i am ready to spend any little time i have learning about autorepair, i want to cease the opportunity of second IT after 400L in learning about automobile, i wouldnt mind to recieve it via my email if you feel it's confidential.

I don't. You can start by calling. It'll be best to disciple under an engineer. You can relate better and training quality will be better, because you can ask deeper questions and certain understanding will be passed to you.

Somebody gave the number to an automotive engineer for Audi somewhere. You might want to place a call. I know an automotive engineer in Lagos and works primarily on German cars (especially BMW and Benz). He also works on Japanese cars and he is extremely good. I don't know if you can disciple under him. You will learn the rudiments a car and the definition of quality service. You dare not attempt anything short of factory specifications and genuine OEM parts. He has served my family for more than a decade. In my opinion, he will be the better choice because I know him and have seen his service. The Nigerian Army trained him and messing about is not an option on military convoys. He also works beyond engines and transmissions.

Subtext: @Trac, Kindly throw more light on Toyota's being prone to sludge and Minor and Major oil changing. I have a Camry that I want to last as longas possible for me. Thanks.

Subtext, I cannot answer your question on how Toyota engines sludge because I've never seen one (though heard of someone that experienced it). In the last decade, Toyota offered service at their own cost (I think they replaced the engines) for oil sludges as long as you can prove that you maintained all oil interval changes. This is how I got to know of it.

Minor and major oil changes: I came across this when I was to perform engine service on an Audi. The Audi service document stated that major and minor oil changes respectively every 5,000 miles. In other words, minor is done at one interval and major done at the other. This caught my attention because I came across a person that stated that engine flushes were ideal for Porshe's and VW's.

By the way, don't use 20w 50 weight oil in any Camry. Heavy duty trucks do not use such weight and they offer some serious tow capabilities and engine operates at far higher stresses under loads than what the Camry can ever attain.

aikerism: I bought a w202 c200 elegance last december,and the ride is serving me till today, no problems n its very very quick off the blocks. My respect stands for this germans! My qualms right now is dat I have noticed increased noise in d cabin when I put the pedal to d metal, it will be running smoothly but when I go lower n it raises the speed, the noise drowns my music and I need to take my feet off the accelerator a bit to hear my self.it wasn't like this before... What can I do to correct this? This is d car in question... My 2nd wife




Still waiting for any solution from the Guru's in da house. MB for ever!

This cannot be resolved online. A mechanic onsite can only conclude on what's going on. Any hypothesis will just be a waste.

au.hanson:


In absence of the engineers guide on their system design , life must still continue with the laws of the science of Physics and electricity.

My Benz 190 came with no ac system and external fans, bought it almost like a scrab, i built a functional ac system for it and uses it full time for 6 years now because i don't like dust, only had to refill my gas 3years ago

MB will not release their proprietary information to the public. The basic circuitry will be disclosed but not the design principles. This is their intellectual property. The same goes for all manufacturers.

When I stated the laws of physics, I truly meant what I said. That's why I made reference to iron and aluminium.

au.hanson:

We are deliberating the same thing here. I never touched the factory cooling system that i met on ground, but rather the messed up ac system with its cooling units. I am still looking forward to where i'll get the factory cooling design specification for this model, so to set things perfect

You have altered the cooling. Iron and aluminium have different co-efficient of expansion. The cooling was designed that way so that you don't destroy your engine. You only have very little of a clearance and if you warp so bad, you'll need to get another head. As I stated, you are not smarter than the engineers that took more than a decade to design that engine. If your approach was best, they would have done so; but it isn't. Altering the system to cause the fan to come on sooner than designed is change in factory specification to the cooling. A lot in the engine depends on this configuration to work as intended.

This is why I said the laws of physics will not exclude you (iron and aluminium). I believe you are running an MB square engine.

Anyway, if you know what you are doing; then you know what's best for you.

smartchoice: @Trac are you saying crankshafts can't be worked on. vis a vis cutting and smoothness professionals?

Don't even be tempted. A crankshaft is cast in manufacturing. Don't patronise anyone that does this. It does not make any kind of sense plus it is "malpractice" to do such. I have pretty much summarised it above. Anything else will be too complicated because it will be interdisciplinary in subject. Engineers don't do such; hence the reason why I stated "malpractice."

ojeniyi.:
i have not been visit this forum for awhile, because lectures has already started in my school and the only thing on our mind is CGPA. Please, i am eager to see those stuffs delivered into my mailbox.

You can delete your e-mail address now (for your privacy) since it isn't needed anymore.

Working on cars is "easy" (provided you have the right tools, "can turn a wrench" a good workspace and comprehension of what is done). Diagnosing isn’t. This requires understanding. The whole thing is easiest when you don't know what you are doing and above all, don't understand the vehicle being worked upon.

So, diagnosing is where most of the tug will emanate from; hence, you will need a comprehensive understanding of the various disciplines. Sometimes, I have to sleep on a matter and begin to ponder on how the system works and what may have gone wrong.

A vehicle that has been severely altered should not be worked on until it has been thoroughly worked on. What’s the point accelerating as fast as you can to high speeds in the wrong direction? Would “that” ever get you to the right destination?!

PARTS: Try as much as possible to stick with genuine OEM (original equipment manufacturer). This way, you can guarantee your service(s).

SAFETY: Should not be overlooked! I am sure you are aware of the safety within the shop. That is also part of the whole “picture.” Chemicals, poisonous gases (such as exhaust fumes)and soon do not improve the human body. Always work with steel-toe boots. Do not wear sandals. It is an investment that is worth it.

CONFIGURATION W.R.T ENGINES: This area is where a lot of people think they are learned upon. The truth is the reverse is the case. Nature differs!

ELECTRICAL SYSTEM: You will need a DMM or DVOM for basic electrical testings. There are some tests that are just inexcusable if you cannot perform them. You probably already know them.

IGNITION SYSTEM: Not to complex but worth it. This is probably one of the areas that may be compromised. Once the principles are understood, the rest would be learnt via experience.

These are my chip-ins.

All the best (that includes your CGPA exam preparations):

smartchoice: Trac here we go again bro, I have been seriously eavesdropping and interested, my email is oyinxyl@yahoo.co.uk

The attachment was an unabridged text of the reply (above text). It wasn't a material. I did not know how to start and upon scripting, along with layouts and formatting, it became too large. Since the "thread" is interested, I have 'bridged it; in other words, simplified or paraphrased it to what is above. Each emphasis has been processed out.

smartchoice: @Trac does MB star diagnosis tool work only with IBM pcs?

That multiplexer is for authorised MB dealerships. There is also more to the multiplexer. I don't know what they use. I don't work for MB; neither am I a fan.

au.hanson:

I actually bought this vehicle with this re engineering of the electrical fans/ac system, though, they never worked at the time of purchase; everything there was a mess; the fans were actually connected directly to the alternator to spin full time at cranking,i believe this was done by the first owners dedicated mechanic, because its their popular opinion here to cool the engine, an aspect i never liked at all.In fact, these are the reasons why i have been looking for a comprehensive manual to fully understand the architectural circuit of the wiring sequence of routing of this model so that i can fully organized things back properly. Mechanics here will be laughing at me over such insignificant determination to reorganized things back to factory fittings, to them, 'it doesn't follow, here is not abroad, Mercedes Benz has a bad ac system and compressor, that could make you spend through your nose if you are to keep with them, that's why they do what they do'. I actually decline to all these hypothesis of theirs, though they're some element of truth as to the Benz compressor and maintenance cost of their ac system. I went ahead and overhaul this already faulty system of theirs and put mine in place with the way i understand electricals, because i don't know what to believe anymore than to play save. I remove their direct toggle on/off ac switching connection that was already faulty and then traced the power to the Mercedes Benz switching unit at the panel and connected it from there with my installed brand new Peugeot 504 compressor(504 compressor is known for their durability and ruggedness, that's why most vulcanisers here uses it for their business. Ikenna, your comment is welcome here) after having flushed out the old system thoroughly with gap oil.It was from here that i had to replace one of the fans having assured my self from diagnose that it was bad(the mistake i did here is that i still use their old wires and relay, which i finally replaced as i described earlier. it 's from here that i connected the two fans along with the compressor via system of oem relays(from nissan however) with the compressor to the factory fitted Mercedes Benz power source via the panel on the interim, pending when i shall have the full circuit diagram of this electrical fan system to aid me do the right factory fitting without messing up nor endanger something here

My engine doesn't run cold, if i decide not to use the ac, the two electrical fans wouldn't come up. In fact, the two electrical fans were not functioning until i reinstalled the ac system, and this ac system chilling is deadly, better off than that of my already envied Benz 190. You have explained the Mercedes Benz electrical fan system, but can you get me the circuit diagram or a vivid explanation of the wiring routing with this model? I will very much appreciate this gesture. thanks

I hope you know what you are doing for you aren't smarter than the engineers that took more than a decade to design the engine. The two electrical fans are not designed to come on at the conditions you are stating. You should be aware of the relationship between iron and aluminium when mated. The laws of physics will not omit your case.

What I explained to you is the factory cooling specification not the electrical fan system. I don't have the circuit diagram/routing plus I don't like electrical issues.

matson: The alternator checked out fine. Had to refill the refrigerant for the AC too, and was shocked to see "Battery Under Voltage, Turn consumers off" warning. This was when AUTO button of the air con is pressed. Had to manually adjust the fan speed and everything seems to work out just fine.

I'd like to know what the normal operating temperature for this car is, cos it runs at 98^F with out the air con and around 120^F with the Air con.

Need to get coolant as well, any suggestions on the best brand/preferred available in Abuja?

I want to believe that you mean degC and not degF. If that's what you meant (hopefully), there is something not truly right about the whole setup. Find a mechanic that works on German cars.

The other phase of your problem (including Seun's, if the problem re-occurred after the reset) is the voltage regulator. I'm sure on Seun's case and unsure about yours. Find another mechanic. The component is coupled in the alternator or around it. This component is cheap. Don't buy another alternator. The second possibility is your electrical system. It is not right. Before replacing any part or alternator related component, get your electricals configured correctly. If your configuration is wrong, there is no point fixing anything because it still wouldn't run right. Your problem might only be that you have to restore the vehicle to factory specifications.

abdulkadir:

I almost missed this. Started enjoying and now Trac i hope you are not making it private.
anyways i dey follow una.

I have an attachment too big for the permitted limit.

Ikenna351:
I also want to use this opporunity to tell all Benz owners, check Peugeot shops as well when searching for Benz parts in Benz shops and you are not seeing them their. Because Peugeot and Benz use Bosch parts in all their cars. It may even be cheaper in Peugeot shops.

Ikenna.

This is also an alternative. The thermostat can also be used. The Wahler for Mercedes Benz or the spec rating is not good. Other thermostats will work well. Ensure the correct reading. It it's present for sale, go for it. No 83degC or 85degC specification. It should be 87degC.

au.hanson:



Hello Trac, 'my people say a bird at hand is worth two in the bush'. My eyes fix on that temp gauge all the time i drive, one day i noticed my temp almost climb to a 100 degrees celcious through a slow and steady traffic, when i got home i try to observe what the problem could be only to discover that i have been driving with ac on without the two external fans spinning. i tried to check what the problem was but couldn't see anything wrong, so i decided to disconnect the fans, use my oem relay(i had a spare one in my boot that i bought to wire my Benz 190 compressor), traced the wire source to the fan and to the power supply; that same source carries my ac compressor to the switch. i had to rewire the fan with an oem relay in between it via the ac power source and connected the earth as well, so that once my ac switch is toggle on/off the 2 external fans comes up/stop immediately and vice versa...since then, i have not noticed such sudden rise in temperature anymore.

I ma still looking out for the Behr thermostat in particular since i wouldn't know of any of the Japanese ones, besides i dont want to take the risk of buying any inferior China fake product.I might as well still pick another wahler product too for a spare as it is very cheap over here while still hoping to see the Behr one day. I'll also check the auto car dealers section too for more understanding of other brand too. thanks

I hope you will also get my point-of-view of getting a dedicated mechanic for your vehicle. It's their full-time job. A good one will ensure your vehicle does not check-in in-between schedules.

What you have stated above is the proper operation for the vehicle. The operating temperature starts from 89degC (not an 87degC typo) to 101degC (for the four cylinders). The engine is just at its "warm" phase. Electrical fan kicks into stage-1 at 102degC and stage-2 takes over at 115degC and at 126degC, the air conditioner cuts off. At 130degC, the coolant will overheat (NOT the engine). At this point is where the trouble begins; heat related problems then overheating occurs. The car overheats according to design after 135degC; not from the cause of the engine but the coolant overheating. You can figure how the heat will quickly accumulate within a short period once the coolant has overheated. It is not uncommon to drive at 110degC. These are normal operating temperatures. There is no other road-going car that I know that operates as hot as a Benz. This is the four cylinder configuration.

From what you have stated, I assume you have three fans; two electrical and a mechanical viscous. The mechanical viscous kicks in at 102degC or when the two electrical fans have failed. Part of the purpose of the mechanical fan is to ensure duty when both fans have failed or other related emergencies. Both electrical fans should cut off right after the temperature falls right under 90degC.

It should be clear to you that MB engines are very hot engines and other vehicles don't run as hot. You don't play with the coolant, thermostat, water pump and its tensioner and the electrical settings and the grade of oil you put in there. The coolant it uses is the hybrid organic kind.

By now, you have an idea why I cautioned against Wahler. It isn't just the thermostat but the radiators too. The radiators don't hold well against the test of time compared to Behr. When the thermostat fails, you will not know. The gauge will read right; if care is not taken, engine disassembling repairs will be required for an overhaul.

What you have done is re-engineered your vehicle in a way unfit to the overall design. Your engine should not run cold under any circumstance. Kuntash did state at one point that some mechanic reconfigured his vehicle out of specifications. He straightened things and he hasn't complained of heat related issues under factory specs. Look for the post in reference or ask him. Use the proper oil (to which you have done), the right coolant application, stick to factory cooling specification and be relaxed in mind. The thermostat you have will still function for many months; for it is new. So, now worries in that "department." The vehicle should go a minimum of 15 months without a single repair while still maintaining dependability.

You won't find a Chinese Behr. It is made in Germany. As Ikenna referenced: source around the European part stores. You will find an 87degC thermostat; no doubt!. On another thought, a sales-person might be stocking thermostats in the Auto Section. You don't know who till you come across them. Kuntash bought his Behr in Nigeria. So, it isn't an impossibility. It shouldn't be pressing at the moment but you can look out for it. The thermostat currently installed will not fail anytime soon. Search at a convenient pace.

au.hanson:

Yes they are the same but differs with the technical specs, and i want to trash some technical insignificant issues that is very obvious, i dont want to assume and take chances..i should be more careful. Something tells me that you can still get it for me.Or, can you point me to where in Nairaland you heard of it? or better still, the link?

The technical information is not really much of a loss to you because you have acquainted yourself quite well and the information disclosed isn't that much; trivial. Some of the repetitions are on the gasoline door flap, door seal, engine oil cap and a few other places. You aren't missing much.

au.hanson:


Ok! thanks Trace, you didn't give me this part, the Japanese brand? Can you be a bit specific, atleast that will leave me with some options? I got that one to keep me going while still on the look for i supposed reliable but affordable one within my shore..Though, the dealer who gave me the 'whaler' really assured me of it, and its been very wonderful since then, though still on the look for Behr or the alternative Japanese model for a keep as spare should the whaler fail.

I don't know a Japanese brand of thermostats but it is better than the Wahler you have. If you cannot find Behr, any other one is better than Wahler. This is what I was trying to convey. It is good as you have what is installed for the current time but to have faith in this shouldn't be. Everywhere sells Behr; for that's all they stock. I wonder why Nigerians are having a hard time finding one. The failure rate is just too high for those thermostat and MB stopped fitting their cars with those brands. Ask Kuntash where he got his. I believe he had remarks to the Wahler brands as well. Nevertheless, another thermostat of the same specification will do fine. It doesn't have to be Japanese but any European.

If finding a suitable thermostat is becoming difficult, getting in touch with car dealers in the Auto Section will not be a bad idea. It won't be a bad idea to get more than one.

au.hanson:

Kuntash has given me the c280 which i very much appreciated. However, i was banging hope on you(as you stated, cos i believe you) for the c180 that is specific to my model. There are some detail issues(what others would consider insignificant) i need to resolve using it, things that are normally overlooked, but i want everything almost perfect if possible.. when i finish solving these items i'll let you know. I don't know if i can still bang on you for the w202 c180 manual?

The C280 is the same manual as the C180 except for engine specification details, trims and various options. The differences are not much. The manuals were not in soft-copy but hard-copy. The technical details are very trivial and some found in the 280 manual will pass for the 180. The ones that do not apply will be obvious to you. The portion where it states "Technical" is where the differences are. I haven't seen a C180 before except on Nairaland. The C180 was for a limited market because I remembered in 1997, the Mercedes brochure that detailed the engineering of the C Class had the C200 as the lowest engine. This was the European marketing brochure with European specifications.

@Somorin

There are two principles in fluid mechanics and fluid dynamics. The Giovanni Venturi effect and Bernoulli's principle. Running unrestricted tubes would reduce velocity according to Bernoulli's principle. One could run free tubes in a forced induction setup because variables have been altered to still subscribe to the physics laws of Bernoulli's principle that pressure decrease in fluid as velocity of the fluid increases. This is the comprehensive summary of what MD' is talking about.

The back pressure and resonance MD_Autotec is stating is principled according to the Giovanni Venturi effect.

abdulkadir: @ Trac i know d 500 isnt easy to maintain so d c43 wouldnt be easy as well. I didnt mean they are easy to maintain.
I dont know where talktimi intend to source his cheap parts and dont know how wrong he is so i didnt criticise him.
thanks for correcting the impression i had that older model parts are readily available.
@ Talktimi, the ball is i your court. c43 is
Sure a great car but using it comes with a price.

I was trying to emphasise that 500 Limited is more expensive in parts than the AMG E Classes that came afterwards. The C43 is cheaper to maintain than the 500 but some cannot justify the Aufrecht costs but it is still illogical to many. This references are for the purpose of the sub-discussion that popped in this thread. However, on a performance scale, the prices are expected and justifiable. The C43 is not a car for the Nigerian setting. This is not an opinion; it is a fact. The roads, the fuel, the service person to administer repairs and parts availability.

Low volume limited production vehicles are not the only options.

yungboss: how easily will he find a good C43, its a very rare car and from what i understand not many were even produced. I have dropped the idea of looking for an e36 m3, because of my concern of genuine servicing when the need arises. E500, c43, bmw m3, m5 etc would cost a fortune to maintain in Nigeria.

This is the biggest hurdle. People don't part with their pre-war and post-war Mercs. It is rare to find them in dealerships for sale except those in questionable conditions. Those aren't many also. I have stated somewhere on this thread to the motion that nobody would sell a well maintained Mercedes Benz at book value. You do not source for a well maintained MB and expect to pay the book value for it. You are being unpractical.

talktimi: I use edmunds.com for majority of my car reviews and concentrate mainly on the reviews made by consumers because they are the ones who use the cars for an extended period but I needed inputs from Nigerian users that's why I earlier asked on this thread for anyone who had an idea of the c43's availability in Nigeria and its ease of maintenance. I'm a sucker for powerful cars and that is why I don't rate my pilot highly at all since its too sluggish for my liking its good someone as enlightened as trac is online here because I could have gone ahead to ship the car in if not available in Nigeria but as it stands, I'll get a variant easier to maintain within c200 & 220 then work on enhancements. That's the good thing about benzos, they're enhancement friendly.

You should take the reviews with a grain of salt. The same goes to the user review sections too. A friend of mine told me that these editors are paid. I don't know to what level it is true but he was credible for the information. Those that will rate it poorly rarely state how well they maintain their vehicles. The trouble is what's genuine and what isn't genuine will not be able to be separated; unless you know someone that works for that auto-company or franchises the auto-brand or works on them. The information should be taken with a grain of salt.

The Pilot is a truck. It has a measure of hauling capabilities also (I should hope). My friend owns one along with an M Class and he enjoys his Pilot. He bought it to ship to Nigeria and sell but eventually got fond of it.

I will advice you as well as the other interested. You never buy any of those hybrid cars through the internet, mass classified ads or roadside. You go in person and examine it with a person that knowledgeable about them. It is not uncommon to travel by plane to several States away to look up an AMG or M3's. If it is good, the money is paid upfront upon negotiation and driven back. To buy such from a dealership is not good practice also.

Never modify a Mercedes. You cannot improve it. Anything to it is a downgrade. The build quality is good and the parts are German grade.

Examine economical factors when purchasing your next vehicle. Nevertheless, before you buy any car, make sure you have a mechanic to service what your choice would be. Don't purchase a vehicle in hopes to be carrying out your own repairs. Also all Benzes should pull at higher speeds. I will not recommend the 180 types (if you will have people once in a while ride with you).

Do not get me wrong - AMG's are good. This is not to say that it cannot be owned in Nigeria. It can! The model you are talking about in question is more of a circuit model than the others. If you were into performance, then my responses to you would have been different. There is a Nairalander that owns a turbocharged 190E and inquired about a C Class. He had owned it for a while and was considering upgrading; not because of performance but something newer. He has a mechanic that works on that vehicle. I went into details on all the options including the AMG series with him and the drawbacks.

Ikenna351:

I would go for c280 instead. The car is highly powered and got a good review. Find users review in carsurvey:

http://www.carsurvey.org/reviews/mercedes-benz/c-class/

To me, the c200 & c220 will be too underpowered for my liking. Even reviews from users in carsurvey stated so. I see a lot of c280 here on Abuja roads. If repairing them is that difficult, i wouldnt be seeing them that much on the road.

Ikenna.

The 200 and the 220 is not underpowered. It powered the E Classes and the heavy G200's. Nobody will pay so much money for an expensive slow vehicle at new. You don't know the state of health of the cars that belong to the reviewers. Someone stated that the interior quality was poor. This should be questionable because some of the C Class components were put into the S Class of that era.

yungboss:
your right Ikenna. I wouldn't like to own another c220 after my first experience with it. The car was 'slow' and this i didn't find comfortable, handling was good but was a huge task sending power to the wheels. I would go for a clk 430 (not a practical car though but i do not mind), an '07/'08 c350 or a c280 (but i'm scared of the w202s considering potential age-related wire harness issues).

Your vehicle was faulty because that is abnormal. It wasn't engineered like that from factory because it wouldn't have been sold at the premium price is commanded when new. That is the result of having an unqualified person work on it. It was not at factory specs but personal or isolated specifications. These cars are highway cruisers and they provide remarkable comforts at high speed with road mannerism. Your experience is also not a Mercedes trait at old age. It was built to run like new all its life. This is not a cliche. The engine has been over-engineered for that task. You should be able to get to 130MPH on the 220 progressively once in the power band and remain that way as long as you want it. The wiring harness issue was for only two or three years. This was German law regulation and affected all cars in production for those periods. MB's are still on the road; this is why you hear harness issues. If you find a good vehicle within the affected years, make your own harness. Give it to a qualified person to do so. It should not cost you much.

abdulkadir:

you are right ikenna & Youngboss. Let me add that the v6 which came later has slightly more hp than the inline 6 Which was in ealier versions.(4hp more i think) and better mpg was achieved; if it matters.
If you dont mind the super charged(kompressor) d 230 thay say achieves 194hp just as d v6.

The V6 is not faster than the inline 6 that left. It also wasn't a better engine. It however had more miles per gallon but there reasons for that. The technology was an all new V8 but the inline had been a developmental iteration for decades and was terminated.

ziccoit:

@Trac, there is sport trim. Watch this video;

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=GgJWwBTNeGo&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DGgJWwBTNeGo

Thanks for the video. However, that is not a sport trimmed vehicle. It is also not an AMG. Those are the kinds that you should avoid if you are to spend good money.

ojeniyi.:
Ok, i will mail him while waiting for your response bro.

What's your e-mail address?

ziccoit:

@Trac, your post made me about to reconsider the thought of purchasing a mercedes benz- C180 W202 sport. Seems Nigeria is bereft of good MB handlers and if available not ubiquitous.

Owning a car without thoughts of how it will be maintained is unwise. These cars are good and have a lot to be appreciated for. However, if availability of parts and questionable maintenance service is what the deal is, to what good is it?

My parents ended their ownership of MB's after 2003. Their philosophy is that if no one can service it, there is no point in ownership.

Though I have never seen a C180, I don't believe there is a sport variant.

matson: After ready every single post on this thread, I finally concluded my purchase of a c240, 2003 model.

I'd like to know what I should expect, when to do my first service etc.

Already, I have a faulty alternator. What's d best replacement.

Take it to your mechanic and request a P.P.I (post-purchase-inspection). A competent mechanic will do the job for you. The best replacement for the alternator is the one made by Mercedes Benz. It should have the star logo on it.

talktimi: only rave reviews so far, someone said its "built like a tank" I've also come across "built to last forever" and relatively cheap parts can be gotten online. This particular model was from 1998 - 2000 and has been described as one of the last hand built AMGs. There are other fancier more beautiful specs of mercedes in the market especially after 2000 but if you prefer ruggedity, this is the car for you as well as other C class series of the 90s.

Always critique! Always! There is nothing wrong to logically critique anything or subject "quote." People may get offended - you might appear silly for the moment but it won't be an easy game getting you fooled if the intentions were so.

1st critique: how in the world do you relatively get cheap parts online for any AMG? Sure enough puzzling. The parts are expensive and can only be bought through AMG (Mercedes). The "untouched" components can be replaced with the standard C Class parts.

2nd critique: they are relatively few AMG's per model (especially for the model generation of interest). When you get to these "so-called" forums, most claim to have AMG's; how? For example: the 2001 E55 was the lowest in production of over 900 models from factory. My point exactly is that you can't just trust anything you read. Many don't own these AMG cars. These so-called subscribers create problems in those environments; many are still teenagers and DON'T own cars. They talk about how fast and how passionate they are plus ridiculous modifications. They flock around the special models of vehicles.

3rd critique: why do you think nobody wants them? I'll let you answer that.

The model is a special model and it's natural (primary) habitat is on a close-circuit. It is a tuned vehicle and will require "tuned" maintenance and expensive ones for that matter. It is not for everyone. The maintenance intervals are shortest compared to the others. That is to keep it in its optimum condition.

Going straight to the point: it is uneasy getting one. There are also "fake" ones as well. Shopping for a Mercedes of that generation is not really an easy task. You can imagine when it is an AMG-tuned model. Nobody gives up their Mercs as you perceive (except the new ones).

Above all, the fuel to fill the vehicle is not sold in Nigeria. It requires super-unleaded. This goes for any MB from the United States. You won't be getting the stated mileage that you referenced on super-unleaded. How much more Nigerian fuel that is lower in octane and also has a higher ethanol content.

Extreme caution is always used when purchasing any tuned vehicle (all). This is always a rule.

Coming from a Pilot and making alternatives like A4, 3 Series and C43 gives off a lot of details. It is evident that you stick to a normal vehicle solely for street-use. No tuned cars or hot-rods. They are meant for performance/drive enthusiasts and they require some knowledge that are not necessary relevant to normal vehicles to maintain and operate at certain limits (especially when modifications have been done).

abdulkadir:

they say its next to w124 e500. May be they share some similarities in terms of maintainance, not in terms of price but ease of maitanance. Getting a decent mechanic myt be more of the challenge. Mercedes part are readily available even for much older models, so getting replacement part wouldnt be much of an issue.
again pls lets start a thread on d C43. We would definately get useful inputs. NLanders a very resourceful.

I meant the cornering attitude under velocity in a close-circuit. It's a C Class and traveling C-Class is not traveling E-Class. C43 has a firm ride and it is not comfortable. Both cars (500 limited and C43) are not in any way of ease in maintenance. 500 limited is really a very expensive car to maintain. The parts are very expensive and unique to the vehicle. It was built that way and it is a limited edition vehicle.

Mercedes parts are not truly available for the older vehicles. It is becoming harder to get some of them and the prices are going up. They aren't manufacturing anymore. If you are getting after-market, that's another issue entirely. However, after-market for AMG's and 500 limited is ridiculous (that's if you find). The biggest challenge is finding a good vehicle.

yungboss:
i doubt whether you'll find one to purchase in Nigeria. You mayhave to look to ordering it from overseas, which would be sure expensive, maintenance is another thing. Its an AMG v8 engine, a c class. I dont know what other models it shares its parts with, definetely not the clk 430...Trac will know better though..

You are getting the Aufrecht parts. AMG is AMG where it matters. I need not tell you who should work on it (you've figured that out already). The cost for rotors is another. It only uses AMG brakes and it is a very unique piece of construction (for lack of a better term). You replace them every year or over. $600 for the front on the E Classes. I was in Nigeria a few years ago and a neighbour the next street from my parents home had an AMG. It was not well-taken care of and was visually a mess. The exhaust tubes spoke volumes as well. I told my dad that someone bought a wrong Benz and the state thereof is the result.

abdulkadir:

i dont get it did Trac say anything wrong?

I was only cautioning him. The brand he bought is unreliable and undependable. Mercedes no longer uses them.

au.hanson:


Trac, you couldn't have looked for it more than i did, but to no avail. Besides, i couldn't do without a thermostat, read my comment above.However, i'll really appreciate if you can get me the owners manual for the w202 c180, thanks.

My recommendation is that you find another brand if you can't get Behr. A Japanese brand is also good (at least for the nature of work). Just don't use an American part.

I don't have the manual for your car. Kuntash has a soft-copy (I believe).