au.hanson:


All is well Trace, but i bet you, in Nigeria , ECU go bad. Mine went bad, i tested it with the new one side by side. My neighbours' went bad

I may not have an automotive background, but i make sure i discover my ride than anyone else would.. just discovered my Cclass, now i diagnose it and fix almost everything right,(DIY)that's who i am. I have this confidence in her when i do it myself, because i'm careful with her. I'm not saying i wont patronise mechanic, but no more to my detriment, rather, with strict supervision

Okay!

Seun: What could be wrong when your EBS and ATS lights are on all the time, after maybe hitting a few road bumps with an car's belly?

Seun,

As a precaution, inspect all lights (bulbs) are operating in your vehicle. For instance: brake lights, interior bulb and turn signal. If any of the bulbs are burnt, have it replaced. This is important for this can trigger an ESP "family" error.

Crank the engine without throttle application and then turn the steering to the left till full lock. Then counter to the opposite (that's to the right) till it opposite-locks. Then centre the steering and kill the engine. A reset would be done. If it comes back, please list some immediate repairs that were done. If none was done, I will pin-point what you have to examine and replace.

ojeniyi.:
I would like to specialise in japanesse cars, but it seems most of these cars operates using similar principle irrespective of the country where they are being manufactured.

I would prefer powertrain option. Sienna has not been visiting this forum for awhile now because i 'd follow both of you on this forum.

Okay, I will know how to draft my response accordingly. That is inspection, maintenance and repair of engine and computer & electronics.

Siena might be busy at the moment. However, you can send him an e-mail. He responds!

We all have to be careful about front/rear wheel discussions and so on. The purpose is not to make little of anyone. It is not extreme to think that there are some that have complexes; no one is perfect. I am not referring to the topic but the comments of many of the posts. In normal city-to-city driving, difference is extremely minimal (or not observed).

The thread from the title is ambiguous and obviously limited in perspective. The wikipedia link did little in explanation (and in my opinion, poorly). Understeer and oversteer is also worse that what was stated. If properly detailed, you will not need a "rocket-scientist" to conclude that understeer is the what should be configured. I guess the overall idea was passed across.


I will assume production vehicles (that is road cars). Cars that are road legal.

Getting straight to the point:

We are referring to production cars here; that is cars you purchase from the dealer's lot, private buyer or cars driven on public roads. Matching a Toyota Camry (ES350)to a C350 is NOT comparing apples to apples. This is to say that the aforementioned has been the mentality thereof (mostly).

Personally, I have a front wheel drive. Upon purchase, I didn't know it was. The vehicle dynamics is excellent and you can barely tell it is a front oriented vehicle. It doesn't drive like one. It is near its limits (at high speed) that the front-wheel nature is mildly observed. The car itself is a 70 Series Volvo. It has exceptional road-holding capabilities, sure predictabilities and from ground-up, a full sport chassis with a high-revving engine to match. Volvo went through great lengths to attain such dynamic feats and then patented it. Weaving in and out during traffic is very precise and it slightly leans. I can dial into a corner aggressively and you'll never believe by just looking that such a car could be so naughty.

Examining an industry standard:

The best handling front oriented vehicle. The Mini is the best handling front wheel drive in the world. That is production, special models and race models. The Mini sweeps around in feats the rear wheel drives cannot attain. It also proved itself down the decades.

Audi is a standard on its own. In the early 80's, it proved to the world (via the quattro) that rear wheel driving was a belief. To add to the "mockery", a woman was the driver and another was the co-driver. I am not referring to a near-win but a clear one. Peugeot's long reign in Group B was over. The old idea or rear wheel setups has been out the windows since then as a general rule. Today, can you compare a front wheel Audi to an economy rear wheel drive? The answer is a resounding "no". It becomes debatable when comparing an Audi to a premium rear wheel drive, tier-for-tier. Millions of Euro's are spent by Audi to develop the front wheel setup. Most cars are built and engineered to a price. This has to be understood and considered.

There are many people that will tell you that there isn't a difference in both setups. They are true to an extent. My reference is, for example: an Impala (rear wheel model) to a Nissan Maxima. Why is this so? It is for production and the engineers have worked to dial out "potentials" or "flaws" to make them road worthy and meet regulations. From the factory, they are designed to understeer. Performances will be identical. It isn't sold to you in its traditional states.

In their natural states or under-engineered states, they will understeer and oversteer or both combined. This is where a lot of the theories emanate from. It doesn't matter the rear wheel setup you have (except the Corvette and Viper; but that's another serious issue), you car will understeer. It is a safety configuration and "instincts" will immediately have you on the brakes.

Most (even the ones that claim they know how to drive) cannot drive a rear wheel with its wild tendencies untamed. You will fishtail on a straight line or at freeway driving. Imagine when you have to make a turn at moderate speed. In yester-decades, cars did not have much power. Today, the case is something else.

The professional drivers are physicists and engineers. There is more to driving at limits for an extended duration than what 99.9% of drivers know. Senses of awareness is increased and the frame of mind is something that many will not comprehend. It's all about interpreting the status of the four tyres and balancing. Physics to these professionals has now become a craft.


In summary:

* A car differs from another due to the level of engineering details in the product itself.
* Production cars are engineered to process out tendencies for the purpose of taming for road use. Engineering details differ in this area and mostly influenced by the price of the vehicle.
* It makes no sense referencing a BMW to an Accord.
* Production vehicles today are built to a price.

yungboss: somorin,
i think oversteer is more predictable. For ''nose-heavy'' cars like the Honda Accord, i guess the rate of slip angle will be very unsafe...especially on a wet surface, while the car is steering. The weight of the car is to the fore in a FWD, therefore inertia will cause reluctance to turn into the corner, unlike the RWD, with a rearward weight distribution. This is talking about extreme cases, on the presumption that the throttle is kept constant. My thoughts.

Nope! You are wrong. Understeer is instinctual. You will apply the brakes by instincts. You don't want to be in an oversteer. You don't apply brakes during an oversteer. It is not even an option in the list of anything you can/should do during the moment of panic. You will have one big mess while the oversteer is in progress. This is why production cars are not configured this way. In addition to that, no Honda Accord in any production has ever been nose-heavy.

yungboss: nature itself, provides us with the best. Look at the felines, the cheetah and the other cats....the canine family- the dogs and the foxes, the equines- horses, donkeys etc ...their hind limbs were designed by the creator himself to propell them in a race...he never created that much power to the front limbs.

I remember making a statement to this regards last year and I can't find it. It is however incorrect. I discovered later that it wasn't so. We learn everyday and the science of motion has always fascinated me. The statement is conditionally true.

For instance - the obvious (so that there isn't confusion):
* Giraffes
* Hyenas

Let's pick the feline (which is the hyenas). It depends on its fore-legs. It is also a good hunter with acceptable hot-pursuit. In some situations, they out-run lionesses (when hunted/chased) and out-manoeuvre.

A single swipe from the fore-leg of a giraffe against a predator is lethal.

Examine the elephant. There are other creatures as well but this isn't a forum about wild conservation. Nevertheless, it is erroneous to tag the rear as the configurations-to-be.

abdulkadir: @ trac, very educative.
i most confess this is the first time i will read your post once and understand it all, its so simplified. Most times i hav to read your posts more than twice.
anyways, nice one.

abdulkadir: @ trac, very educative.
i most confess this is the first time i will read your post once and understand it all, its so simplified. Most times i hav to read your posts more than twice.
anyways, nice one.

Ikenna351:


Me too.

Ikenna

The reason why it is not as simplified (according to your reference(s)) is because I use applied sciences, engineering and the manufacturing approach to convey. The above post was from an ownership approach (as the purpose of the thread demanded).

To write many of the posts (the long ones) has more to them. Some take me a few hours. Conveying it plainly will mean that many will not understand. So, I have to simplify without losing its original intent or processing away its content integrity. This way, complicated subjects would be softened and a broad range of backgrounds can comprehend and everyone gets the message. Without this, only the engineers would comprehend it and some would have to process it. In some cases, I evade a whole perspective to avoid a post being too complicated.

I use to be on NL wayback and some deemed my posts complicated. This was partly because they were biased. I was into automotive then and most that revolved around it.

ojeniyi.:
Thanks so much bro, you have just opened my eyes to important ingredients that will be used in actualizing my dreams. I hope the mistakes i made by not posting this to the right section will not hinder my chance of getting accurate informations and orietations from you. I still look up to guys like you on this forum for timely info as i'm about to project myself into the world of automobile.

Give me a while. Making a rough draft of what my reply would be isn't all that easy for everything would have to be structured and comprehensible. Also, I want it to be in a structure that others can add to. There are certain areas you need to get going initially. In the meantime as well, you need to get a hold of Siena and get all you can extract from him. There are other practicing auto-engineers here but to my understanding, there aren't many.

If this isn't moved to the Career section, make a duplicate. This section is about cars and other misc. news or information. You are referring to a career which you have invested upon and conclusively decided to pursue. It's a serious topic and others walking in your path in the future will benefit from it.

You need to tell me where you want to specialise. For instance, powertrains, transmission, collision etc. It'll be very helpful. What cars do you want to specialise in?

smartchoice: Trac oh Trac: Life goes on, but that does not mean I can't still consult you o!

I have overlooked the whole thing; contrary to how you perceive me, I am a quiet person. However, I would appreciate the moral of the interaction be held as a principle. The car "thingy" is trivial.

talktimi: Trac and Smartchoice abeg when you guys finish una comedy pls help me out in my inquiry.

AbdulK has beaten me to what I was going to make as a response. I believe I have addressed it twice and one was in detail. As the fellow has stated, if you decide to bring up a thread, make reference from this thread and everyone would chip-in.

smartchoice: @Trac am very much open to criticism but not unbridled arrogance....I will advise you to address texts n contexts not personalities. In my profession criticisms are very much welcome! Live one's not E-criticisms.

Where is the arrogance? Term a spade a spade and not a shovel. What is context and personalities? You are getting offended and personal because you were addressed upon an error.

Or your ego was bothered?

I doubt criticisms are welcomed as you claimed. You've done all the name-calling and so on (after the fact), yet you claim criticisms are welcome in your career.

Re-examine all that I have written and set aside what is wrong and what is right.

I will make no further discussions (whatsoever) on this with you. Striving is not me; I simply just "conclude-upon" and move on.

ojeniyi.:
Becoming a seasoned auto machanic or auto technician is one of those two things i have passion for in my life after AGRICULTURE. Currently, i'm an undergraduate of mechanical engineering (UNILORIN), i seized the 7 months IT(Industrial Training) opportunity to learn the introductory part of auto repair in Lagos.

I am already developing unquenchable interest in auto industry and want to pursue a career in auto repair immediately after B.eng. I'm gonna be so glad if auto proffessors in this forum could help me with the following problems;
1. Institute(s) that oversees automobile mechanics or automotive engineer in Nigeria.
2. How to get myself certified in Nigeria.
3. Those proffessional exams that i must write both international and national.
4. General advise on how to become a seasoned and respected automotive engr. like sienna,trac,ikenna351 and the rest on this forum.

Congratulations on your mechanical engineering degree. 85 - 90% of the difficulty is gone. What you need is someone to invest in you. What BacOnline stated is right-on-the-money. It is exactly what I would state as well. Your engineering degree supercedes any certification. What you need at this time is to apply your discipline of mechanical engineering to what you will learn. My background is similar to yours but I have manufacturing as an advantage over you in addition to mechanical and automotive training in engine installation, repair & rebuild and electronics from the automotive school. The mechanical courses taken will come very handy as you apply them to what you are learning and your overall practice. Working on cars is not where the difficulty is. The diagnoses is where the obstacle is.

The first thing you will need is to brainwash yourself from the mainstream misinformation and ensure you can explain any/everything you will be doing. Example: What stops a car? What keeps a car moving in a straight line? What turns a car? The answer should NOT be brakes, steering, & steering respectively. Those answers are for the novice and people that don't know what they are doing. You should be able to defend what you know with the appropriate engineering facts for those that may query you. For example: you will not weld any steel that has magnesium in it or try to fuse aluminium with 1080 steel. DCEP or DCEN? Mixing old parts with new as a pair -- and so on. Above all, you will need a philosophy (integrity) that you will go by. This is very important.

Electronics may be slightly rough but it's nothing compared to what you've been through.

Kindly appeal to the administrator to move this thread to the Career Section. This is not the appropriate forum. The career section does not mock-about and very serious minded. You'll also get dedicated answers from a few.



Where/What do you want to specialise in?
I will try as much as possible to make outline what you will need to know to get you in preparation. Others will join in to give their two-cents. However, you will still need to apprentice under an engineer for at least two years while honing your understanding. There are automotive engineers in Lagos.

Move this over to the Career Section. Car Talk is not Career Talk, even when the discussion is automotive related. As stated earlier, the people there don't mock-about and the answers are pretty much practical.

Make a reference (link) to the new location on this thread.

yungboss:
easy easy, bro. Everything but insult is permissible!

ziccoit:

Guy pls soft soft. I want to think @Trac didn't mean to insult or pull you down. He was only attacking the content of the write up in a manner full of strong disagreements. Pls, sheath the sword and let us move on.

A lot of people do not understand why the blogosphere was created. Many don't give thoughts to why technology is cheap as of today. How can one defend a catalogue of information and then become virulent when criticised?!

The blunt truth is that crude information is not on the internet but general information. Nobody would put information that he/she paid thousands for on the internet free. In the United States, information (not the common) is termed as property. People are protective about it. A blogger is not a journalist. Journalists went to school and earned a degree from an accredited university and had the universities blessings bestowed on them. In addition to that, they are certain laws that immune them to safely put in prints unbiased press. There are journalistic ethics that causes them to probe their information to scrutinise as much truth as they possibly can. However, certain misinformation slips through the cracks and accepted as mainstream. For instance in automotive, 0 to 60, BMW's 50/50 weight distributions, ultimate driving machine, "performance upgrades" and so on. Though wrong, some slack can be given on the leash for they did not specialise in the science of ground vehicles. This is not to say that these standards should be upheld and repeated. The list is endless and has now become the norm that correcting it may become controversial. Despite the mistakes, it is completely understandable and the idea/context is still conveyed. A blogger on the other hand does not meet up to the standards previously stated. Anything goes! There is no cost associated to blogging. Anyone is qualified. This is what makes a sizable portion of the internet's pie-chart. Sadly, a lot of people became knowledgeable through blogs, then the repetitions without probe. The cycle continues.

smartchoice: Trac or tractor or whatever you call yourself you smack of myopic arrogance and were you blind or too drunk to see A REPOST at the beginning? If you do not agree its your biz. Its a public forum and have not said my views are sacrosanct!Neither have I said those were from me. Utter nonsense spewing from the trash you call a mouth! Would stop for now.

I won't dignify your insults with an answer: you've said it all and before the internet displayed the manner of person you are.

-- you now a fortress that you aren't subject to criticism? Not in contemporary civilisation! As far as I am concerned, nobody doubled as you and logged in with your user-name and password to type and paste what you posted.

The same trend continues; you still didn't learn: your post/information hasn't been backed up or defended. This is so because you cannot. This leave me to another question of criticism: how was my view myopic?

Is it because:
* the writeup was illogical
* I found it incomprehensible according to principles
* Preposterous arguments that could have been avoided if second thoughts were given/sought
* a fictional impossibility
or
* the writeup is comprehensibly termed "garbage"

Never post anything you cannot defend. Don't repeat anything if it is not completely understood. You are a coadjutor; an adjunct courier to the misinformation that impressed you enough to share. It would have a different thing if you understood the contents.

SmartChoice, examine the maintenance culture around you:
- People saving weight by uninstalling the temperature thermostat
- To maximise and increase fuel economy, the catalytic converters are deleted
- Sound and vibrational deadeners are removed without regards
- ECU's replaced without logical conclusions
- Visco 2000 in transmission crankcase
- Environmental factors are justification to wildly deviate from factory specifications
-- the list goes on

How did you think this trend started? Sure enough, it wasn't by human instincts. Definitely, a person or a group of people concluded upon such and others repeated without criticism. Sadly, it has now become a culture; in other words, an elevated level of bad practice. Many years ago, this was sort of a debate on NL. A milestone has been reached (which isn't that much); but how many (compared to the overall population) are aware of these malpractices to avoid them?

Forget about the post or anything automotive related. Think about the principles behind repeating errors and passing it as truth. It becomes a mountain after a period of steady non-oppositions that sorting the truth from such becomes a monumental task.

Lastly, interpret from context not emotions.

au.hanson:
Hello guys i install a new thermostat today with 87 degrees reading(original whaler, couldn't find Behr), also steam washed my engine and radiator and got myself some coolant , now i no more experience the overheating nor any further rise in temp above 87 degrees even while idle in the mid day sun, hold ups etc. contrary to my previous experiences.

I was marveled at my machine performance today during testing to confirm all these stuffs..it was just fun all through, as the engine roars along like a lion dusting all the jap guys.. It was a great deal of trouble fixing all these, i'm happy that all my trouble is not in vain.. This machine worth all that trouble you know, who says C180 isn't impressive in performance when all factors are in order.

Look for Behr. Wahler is not what you want in there. Undependable and you wouldn't know when it fails except it crosses your attention that something is not quite normal.

I've addressed this previously. The nairalander found it at all cost.

I don't know anything about the 180 engine variants but ensure that the thermostat temp reading is right (that is the degrees). If you are unsure, check your owners manual. If you don't have it, let me know.

smartchoice: Mercedes C180 and C200 (W202): A REPOST
In this post I would like to discuss the small engine capacity of W202, like C180 and C200. Why them? Today they are quite old car, ranging from 14 to 9 years old, the price already drop become a cheap car. However, the passenger comfort, good finishing interior, bullet proof engine and fuel economics make those cars still worth to buy.



Lets start with history: (compiled from several source)
The first generation W202 C-Class was introduced in 1993, as a replacement for the Mercedes-Benz W201 (190), and proved immensely popular, quickly becoming Mercedes-Benz's best-selling class of vehicles worldwide. Styling themes were carried over from the previous W201 series, but the new series had a smoother and rounder design than the previous generation of compact Mercedes. The very first W202 C-Class sedan was produced on June 1, 1993, and the second generation W203 C-Class rolled off the assembly line on July 18, 2000. The third generation W204 C-Class was launched in 2007.

Engines and Transmission
On its debut, the C-Class was the only Mercedes model with a complete lineup of multivalve engines. The new family of four cylinder petrol units, called M111, debuted in the C 180 (1.8 L, 122 PS (120 hp/90 kW), C 200 (2.0 L, 136 PS (134 hp/100 kW) and C 220 (2.2 L, 150 PS (148 hp/110 kW). In 1996 the C 220 was replaced by the C 230, enlarged to 2.3 L displacement but with the same output, although with torque increased to 220 N·m (162 ft·lbf). . The top of the range was the C 280, with a four-valve-per-cylinder straight-6 engine, capable of reaching 193 PS (190 hp/142 kW).

Four cylinder diesel models were equipped with the same OM601 engine of the 190, in the 2.0 L and 2.2 L versions. Many of these diesel variants were sold as taxis, due to their low fuel consumption and strong reliability.

At the launch all W202 variants were equipped with a 5-speed manual gearbox. The 722.4 4-speed automatic transmission, also called 4G-TRONIC, was available as extra cost (standard on the C 36 AMG). In 1996 this old transmission - which was on sale since 1981 - was replaced by a 5-speed automatic gearbox (aka 722.5 or 5G-TRONIC), which received the manual shifting in 1999 (722.6).

Why C180 and C200?

THE GOOD SIDE

CHEAP PRICE, wherever country are living, the price of C180 and C200 as more than 10 years old car should be cheap.
QUALITY, even though both models were a Mercedes entry level class, but the quality is remain high, especially if you buy an elegance or avant-garde trims. I’m not suggested to buy the classic trim because with extra 100 dollar we can get the higher trim which is worth more than 1000 dollar compare to classic one.
COMFORT, those car have a good suspension, comfort seat and good sound proofing.
ECONOMIC FUEL CONSUMPTION, around 20 mpg for urban driving and up to 39 mpg for extra urban. If you in stop and go driving situation, C200 will give you better fuel consumption due to its higher power, in other hand if you in continues driving in highway or toll road, C180 is more economics.
LOW MAINTENANCE COST: both car have a strong and low maintenance engine.
POPULATION, Merc W202 was very popular, easy to find a spare parts and easy to find a workshop to fix your car.
OTHER CONSIDERATIONS

OLD CAR: yes it is, some parts may need replacement, but once we replace the parts it can be use for next 5-7 years.
UNDER POWER? For some people C180 and C200 feel under power, it may be right if you are driving around hilly road, however with power of 120 hp for C180 and134 hp for C200, the engine power are strong enough for city driving.
STYLE; the exterior style a bit old fashion compare to the modern car.
STEERING PRECISION; poor to moderate, can’t compare to BMW series 3. Only the professional driver can feel it, for ordinary people is no different
POTENTIAL PROBLEMS
Wiring Harness, please check this first, most of the electrical promblems cause by a poor wiring harness condition, no wonder, it is an old car. Replace it if necessary, the original one will cost you around 600 to 750 USD, however there is a after market product with price around 250 to 300USD.
Wiper Motor failed due to poor quality of internal plastic gear. Replace by after market metal internal gear. It is very cheap solution, however you need to find a local workshop or mechanic to this, the MB authorized workshop would not do this job. Or you can replace the whole motor by your self , at least you saving some money for dealer cost.
Watch for damper pulley which is located near a crankshaft, actually you should inspect the rubber seal around it. If you find oil leaking around the seal and pulley, replace the pulley (one package with the seal). The poor seal condition can make the damper leaning downward and the fanbelt scratching the engine block.
Premature catalytic converter failure often reported by C180 - 200 user.
Check for rust, lower front suspension control arms can rust through. They are made of layers of stamped sheet metal rather than solid steel. They have a 3 inch large hole on top and the salt and water goes in the hole and soaks down to the lower ball joint area, and rusts from the inside out because they are hollow.

http://rajamolor..com/2008/03/mercedes-c180-and-c200-w202.html

Do not repeat something you are not sure of. Don't recite what you can't defend. The mated transmission to the C36 stated is absolutely preposterous. You can't know that because you copied it and passed it as is.

This is a mess: do you know what a wishbone is? How in the world can you use an A-arm out of sheet metal? This is a physical impossibility. Don't people criticise anymore?!

What you have written is wrong and/or isolated. The steering addressed is another joke. When you summarise a car, your reference has to be "homologous."

The Benz has it's issues and they are not many (in other words, not up to four; besides wear/tear). What is sad is that you have passed this on a blog and unsuspecting people will creep-up and educate themselves on this erroneous conclusions and a new wave is formed.

If you do not know; ask! There are people qualified to talk on this subject.

The CEL is one issue. You should take care of that.

This is my limited hypothesis:

The owner's manual states 17/17 mpg using a minimum of 91 octane. Your results are as a reflection of a results using 87 or less octane. There is no way around it. The car was designed to burn cool (slow).

The CEL is another issue. There is no information to support that.


If the mileage seems unreasonable to you, sell the car and get another or supplement it. If you are in the United States, you aren't getting the 17/17 because the flash has been reduced drastically.

DEE247: WAO! TRAC YOU MUST BE PART OF VOLVO BOARD OF DIRECTORS!
YOUR WRITE UP HAS ENLIGTHEND ME. KUDOS TO YOU

I'm just seeing your reply. I'm not in the board of directors (laughing).

It's all good.

Kudos to you too.

lexxycool: Pls guys,I need some information about d volvo 2006 S80...its fuel consumption and maintenance.
Ȋ̝̊̅§ it worth it
And moreover..its getting popular nw

If you want a Volvo, stick to the S60's. The 2004 model is the least problematic (at least for that generation). The S80 is not dependable and parts are expensive. Never (and I mean never) buy a high mileage Volvo. You will have miscellaneous (or let it fall apart) and expensive (you can't avoid this category) repairs to make.

Volvo is not getting popular. It's struggling.

If you've never owned a Volvo, look for something else. This is my recommendation.

Hansen,

On the contrary, I did not get you wrong. I perfectly understood you. Truthfully, I was only sharing a philosophy with you. This also is not to put you down or smear your intelligence: your solution to the problem is wrong. The areas you pointed out have nothing to do with what's going on. I know because I am talking from experience. Fuel pump relay and OVP! The car will NOT start. A bad fuel pump relay will initiate pre-starting operations and the engine will not turn. A bad OVP and car will not start at all. Same with the crank sensor. The problem is from the wiring harness incorrectly laced and certain procedures omitted not any that you have listed. If he is not careful, he will damage the ignition system and that will be very costly; in addition to many other units. The throttle body with the cruise-control assembly is what I would be worried about because that is a lot of money and mightn't be worth replacing (depending on the condition of the vehicle). If the harness was correctly fitted, smooth drivability should have been restored but the opposite was the result. The case got worse. On the other hand, if all was done well and the problem mentioned remains, it should take him no more than 25 minutes with a screwdriver; no jacking up of anything and no wrenches would be used. The check engine light shouldn't be cleared for it will clear itself. But this is rarely the case. Frankly, the situation will not change till the wiring loom has been addressed. This is an advance repair and many factors have to be considered in this kind of a repair. I'm not quoting from anyone but from experience working on cars. Neither am I a novice.

Your background is good; however you don't have an automotive background. Systems engineering cannot cross-over to automotive. Believe me, the science is deep (not mainstream at all), advanced math and stringent tolerances (approaches etc). I have a strong mechanical and automotive background (I will skip the details). For this reason, the "googlers" find my responses puzzling. So, I have been trained and also educated. I still make use of an automotive engineer for certain repairs and sometimes a mechanic because it is what they do for a living plus shop management is at their disposal; the job is done in a short period of time than hours that I do not have. Areas of specialty is important; this is where a professional outperforms you.

Diagnosis: how do you diagnose a system that you don't fully understand? From the above (the post before your last reply), a lot was spoken; besides being disjointed. Before working on any car, knowledge of how the car "thinks" and a basic understanding of every single sensor in the engine bay. If you understand MB's fuel loop cycle, your blunt answer would to get another mechanic. Anybody can "fix" a car; it's easy (as long as you can turn a wrench). Diagnosing and working with understanding is another subject matter. The weeds are separated from the grass at this "junction."

There are knowledgeable mechanics in Africa. They are just expensive. Nigerians will not pay extra for what they deem worth. A professional is still a professional. I can tell you first hand that I know a Nigerian automotive engineer and he is very knowledgeable about German cars but he is expensive. He guarantees his services and uses only genuine OEM. There are others like him but everyone wants cheap services.

Let me advice you: the cam positioning sensor on many Mercedes should not be touched at all. If you test and it proves to have failed, advance repair is needed as soon as possible which will require the engine to be disassembled. This isn't prominent to the C Class you drive. Nevertheless, the rule still applies. This is with Mercedes.

Secondly, leave the OVP alone. There are certain tests for that. It is meant for qualified professionals to diagnose that. When you have an OVP problem, chances are you may never know it is the OVP. A car with OVP related problems will not be spending the night with its owner. Diagnosing is not easy in this situation and in my opinion, very clumsy (if service is to be excellent). Do not disturb it as well, it is very fragile and it is air sealed. The ECU's never go bad. As a systems engineer, you are familiar with PLC's and their inherent capabilities (that should say it all). Certain things will give itself up at the expense of the ECU.

On newer Benzes, hard-coding is requires for certain replacements.


Note: This is a scripted text. Your person was not debased. If the text does seem to appear otherwise from cordial, re-read it from a different perspective.

yosmen: u mean more volume of traped air in the tyre because of it width and rim size will reduce the pressure?
since the pressure is coming from the weight of d car,how does it relate with frictional resistance from the road surface especially untarred one and
2.how does the tyre overcome the effect of stone debries,potholes and suspension as compared with thin tyres
3.Does it have any interplay on the average speed of the vehicle

I will answer your question as best as I can due to the ambiguous context.

(1) No! Intensity of internal pressure * Entire surface area i.e. p*d*l. This is what I meant. The higher the volumetric pressure, the more the tyre will resist flexes. In generic engineering understanding, the internal pressure within the allocated area should be opposed by the resistance of the tyre walls i.e. twice the tyre thickness multiplied by the length multiplied by the engineering stress of the material (negating or suppressing the rim). This is in the simplest and approach; but the basic understanding has been conveyed.
(1B) The tyre generates diverse forces on-the-fly. These forces keep you planted on the road. Molecular adhesion (measured as co-efficient of friction) is what keeps the tyres planted on any kind of surface/terrain. When you exceed the friction co-efficient with respect to the opposing surface, you get unplanted and sliding velocity occurs.

(2) It doesn't. Higher pressure means less tyre deformation (distortion). In the above reply, I was referring to the rims and not the tyres. That is, the yield surfaces succumbing to plastic deformation. This is because there is less cushion, thus less room for distortion to the subjected kind of loadings.

(3) The short answer is: no. The broader answer will have to put into consideration many other factors.


Tyres are broad; so broad a discipline that knowledge to mankind as of today is incomplete. More and more engineering research is done but the science of it is not completely understood by man. My answers were subtle and very biased but limited in this thread. This was done to keep the thread within its topic. The misconception that wider tyres are purposed for better handling negating strength of materials is just wrong and cannot be proven by anyone.

This is not for every car. The solution used has to be of industrial strength and not something off the shelf. The last thing is something going wrong in this "department."

For VW/Audi's/Seat and the rest of the VW family, the service manual states minor and major oil changes [in that order]. These engines were designed for such procedures.

au.hanson:


Now 4 things can cause the kind of problem you have envisaged:

1. ECU related(bad ECU, poor/expired wires and or faulty control relay )
2. Faulty or wrongly positioned C.P.S ( crank position sensor)
3. Fuel pump relay and ovp at the trunk of your car , where you have the 2 fuses
4. O2, oxygen sensor
5. Camshaft sensor if fitted in your own

1. Dont trust any repair wiring,they cannot always be thorough, besides , the wire may be badly damaged beyond repair. Simply buy another one, you may get the Asian type(a fairly used type is less than 20k) , these ones does not expired, because they dont follow the biodegradability laws of Germany etc that causes these wire to expire overtime.Simply follow the orientation of the one there, unclip them all. Most importantly , make sure you bought the right wire for your vehicle, and clip this one to replace the old one. Be mindful of the orientation for the auto transmission , If your car is the manual type simply disconnect the auto transmission wire and clips from your newly bought wire.

Since you have already replaced the brain box ,then you need to test your control relay with a normal vehicle to exonorate '1' above , if that works well on the vehicle then you can move down to "2" But before then , simply open you fuse box area and unscrew the fuse box with a star head acrew driver to where you have the control relay and other components. this is quite simple. Dont be afraid

2. You can trace the your crank shaft position sensor CPS, this is located behind your engine on the left hand side depending om your model. First of all make sure you disconnect your battery head, and the wire that leads to the ECU before embarking on this. Your CPS is located at the top of your starter motor, loose it and try to position it well , place it not too close nor too far to the trigger wheel, connect back your ECU(brain box) and battery and start your car again while observing any of these symptoms. If this did not work out , then replace the oxygen sensor with a new one. If things did not still work out , you can now suspect the O2 sensors. Now move to "3"

3. Test these items , your fuel pump relay and ovp in another vehicle to ascertain their good working condition, else go to your spare part dealer to buy reaplacement , Infact you even need spares of these items in your car, they dont cost at the TOKs market, but be sure you buy good ones. these little things can cause problems you never anticipate. If your problem persist, ten move to step "4"

4. Your O2 sensor would not even allow you to drive the car, if it does, it will produce very poor economy too.

your oxygen sensors are located in your exhaust system. Your exhaust system starts at the exhaust manifold on the side of the engine and ends at the tail pipe at your back bumper.

Make sure you remove your -ve battery terminal before you start this. If you are using Benz C180 like mine or C280,as you didn't mention your car type/model, your vehicle oxygen sensors are 4 of them there are two on each side of your exhaust, actually screwed into the exhaust. They are like the nose of your engine to read how rich/clean the car is running. They look are like spark plugs with wires attached to them, the wires are usually colored white black and grey with plug connections on the end. Go to your dealer store and buy the oxygen sensor socket and racket and unscrew this to replace with that one. Good luck

Jack up the right side of the car and secure on jack stands. Make sure you'll have enough room to slide well under the car, at least to where the drive shaft is over your chest.

Next remove the two bolts that hold the exhaust to the transmission and set them aside.

Now move to the rear of the car and remove the two rubber hangers from the muffler. Once you have these two hangers off you should support the muffler with the jack and move back to the center of the car to remove the middle rubber hanger.

Once the exhaust is free slowly lower it down until you have access to the two sensors. The front one required you to drop the system nearly all the way to the ground.

Here is where the C shaped box end wrench comes in handy. I don't know what those engineers were thinking but its impossible to get a normal wrench or socket on these sensors without dropping the pipes out of the car! make sure you bought the right replacement parts? Good, now cut the wires within an inch or two of where they come out of the sensor on the OLD parts obviously.

Next slip the obstruction wrench over the sensor and give it a smack with the heel of your hand or a hammer to jar the sensor loose. Once you've broken it loose it should turn out by hand. Repeat this on the other sensor, connect the wires and reinstall the exhaust hangers and you're done!


5. Now this is located at the front of your engine near the fan component to the right close to the thermostat .The black box that has the Mercedes Benz logo houses this component. Good luck

N/B always remove your negative battery head before you embark on any replacement that has to do with electrical or electronic components. Kindly let us know if this was useful to you.

Wow!

A rule of thumb: you don't go around eliminating symptoms. That is bad ethics; very bad. A mechanic, technician or engineer worth his salt will first of all find out what caused the problem and other factors associated thereof. It is even worse if it's a fuse. This makes Mercedes cars very difficult to work on because you need at least a fair overall understanding of the gas/diesel engines to render diagnoses. To affirm what I have stated frankly, your stated troubleshooting is unrelated to the issues mentioned. It would have been better if he rounded a few people from the streets and gave them the money that he would spend for such service. It will not help the situation because none of the situation. There are certain aspects where new parts cannot be placed upon old surrounding units or alongside. You need an MB handtool for some models to replace certain parts. The ECU should never be replaced unless diagnoses prove it is dead. Crankshaft positioning sensors should never be fiddled with for these models. The same as camshafts positioning sensors. We all learn. There are certain things you will know about your car due to ownership. Above all, you still need a good mechanic because they are professionals.

His problem is from the wiring harness. The job was a bad one. To fix the issue upon a bad "foundational layout" is just a waste of time and sure enough; will get you nowhere in the long-run but incur more expenses. This is why I stated no opinion in resolving the symptoms. When that is done, any problem left can be safely eliminated.

yosmen: in a nutshell,low profile tyres are better for manovering potholes?

Volumetrically, higher pressure will resist tyre distortion. It is not an inherent advantage of low profiles but a universal principle. What you are interpreting is Boyle's law in effect.

Ikenna351:

I disagree with you.

Ikenna.

The nairaland brethren is partially right (though went overboard); nevertheless, on where he is right, it's a fact and disagreeing doesn't change the laws of solid-mechanics. The yield surface (rim flange and associated perimeter) can change due to plastic deformation. This is known to man as the hardening law. The hardening law is applicable in this scenario as kinematic and isotropic hardening (alloy and (tyre (higher volumetric pressure)) combined. The loading itself is cyclic-loading and miscellaneous spring/suspension compliance loading and effect (even/uneven tarmac changes, pot-holes, broken terrains). This is not to say that a smooth surface will provide assurance against the hardening and loading; cycling fatigue is still eminent. It isn't without trade-offs.

There are conditions where OEM low profile rims have to be replaced (even under normal road usage). The summary is what I have explained above. To buttress this, two analysis' are factored inbetween concept to production: isotropic hardening and kinematic hardening. This is to determine wheel integrity under various loadings.

The answer to this topic is tyre sensitivity and loading with respect to compound. The weightiness of horizontal forces coupled with variations in loading is of severe importance. Since speed does not depend on lateral friction comparatively, softer rubber compounds with higher adhesion meets the objective in question.

There is a problem in the objective met: strength of materials with respect to vertical loads as braking, cornering and acceleration are executed. The standard profile ratio has been compromised for higher co-efficient of friction; hence the softer compound. Since softer dedicated compounds have a higher co-efficient of friction, longevity has been given up for extreme tyre performance at optimum tyre temperature (racing tyres operate best at optimum temperatures). Pressure, velocity and other kinematic forces are constantly varying on-the-fly during operation and a standard section tyre will fail with the aforementioned forces coupled with extreme temperatures (will melt). Also, frequent tyre changes due to very limited tyre cycles.

To resolve this was to engineer a higher yield stress for the given duration of work intended; hence a higher contact section. In other words, less tyre-loading per contact unit measure. So, wider to withstand load and to compensate. This is the only reason why the tyres are wide-profile. It has nothing to do with stability. That is another realm completely different from the topic.

Most passenger cars are just fitted for sake of aesthetic. Tyres designated for racing isn't legal for road use. Some disintegrate in water. Some higher performance tyres will damage exert a lot of loadings on suspension components, thus causing premature failure of suspension components.

au.hanson:


Oh men! then we have been doing it the wrong way all these while..this is time to change, thanks

Tested on my c class yesternight and it worked perfectly, after having bought another mobil 1 quartz during the day, it gulp about 400ml extra. Thanks dude, the guru!!

The 400ml should come from the filter. Monitor oil level over the months. Appreciation acknowledged!

Gods-Son:
This thread has been very informative, most pple still have the MB as a car that guzzles fuel and its very hard to maintain...
I Just sold my 406 and I want to venture in to the MB family and since I am new I want to start with the C class pls I will need a recommendation, am an average income earner and am thinkingof 1998 to 2000 models pls wich would serve me more economically and then one that has less issues with its electronics and general maintenance..pls Ɣ☺U̶̲̥̅̊я usedful responses will be highly appreciated...

It kind of depends on your flavour. I will hereby counsel that you avoid the kompressor variant. The supercharger is a wear-item and it cost a lot of money replacement. It cost $4000+.

guttentag: Plz can somebody help me out, my machanic told me that wires in my car has expire and he worked on it, he later said that the brainbox is faulty, it was replace now the car is jerking while on motion, the fire is sizing and the car will off.
Pls guys I will really appreciate your assistance

Find another mechanic: one that works particularly on Mercedes Benzes. The service done is bad, hence the unimpressive result. The purpose is not to remove the symptoms but remedial service(s). The car has to be re-examined. If the vehicle wasn't doing this before it got to the garage and it left with this acquired mannerism, then steps have to be retraced. If all was done right, then the issue is simple. If you aren't in possession of the old ECU, request it (if it's still with them). Before the unit spoils, certain precautions will sacrifice itself at the expense of the ECU. Depending on the year of the vehicle, parts cannot be swapped without a the MB-handtool.

au.hanson:


Trac, i really appreciate these, thanks a lot.

However, concerning checking the oil in Mercedes, precisely in my Benz 190 if you start and stop before checking the oil the gauge level will drop drastically and u will end up having an overgauged oil if you must follow that, except if it is transmission fluid you are gauging.I hope you didn't mean transmission fluid? Though i have not tested this yet with my c class, hoping to do that tomorrow morning, thank you very much

Hanson,

What I told you is not from me but Mercedes' statement of operational procedure on how you gauge the oil level. Other cars will follow what you stated. After two minutes of engine circulation is when readings should be taken from a cold engine. This is the only accurate measure to gauge oil levels on a flat surface.

au.hanson:


Well! thanks Trac, i bought mobil 1 today from one of the biggest Mobil filling station in PH(to avoid fake product), but the price was very ridiculous, N9,000.00 for a 4 gallon, and N2,600.00 for a 1 litre gallon. I knew they are cheating but then i couldn't change anything than to just buy it .The only thing is that i felt fulfilled that i bought it, after carving out time from my very busy schedule, as i have to travel miles and under the worst hold up to obtain it losing a lot of gas in the process.

My concern now is , how would i know when to change this oil , as in when it'll be due for the next oil change with all these modifications by mobil and the no more guarantee on the extended period as i cant readily find another suitable alternative over here to trade off?

Edit: I partially re-wrote this post.

In all the cheating, I believe it is still better than having to replace your oil every two months or 2,000 miles. Personally speaking, you do not have much to worry about.

I took some time to find out the change of formulation and the reason to it; this along with the integrity in comparison to the former. On their account of testimony, the reason for change was for the benefit of pollution control equipments in your vehicle. The old formulation risked damaging emission components under certain conditions. Nothing changed in the formulae except for the culprit that was reduced to safe level. Mobil 1 has poly-alphaolefine and that's also justify spending such money on it and the quality.

According to Mobil with respect to the product, the oil will go 15,000. However, if you have an engine that has sludge in it or heavy deposits/contaminants, you are to replace 3,000 miles or shorter.


Long distance drives are also beneficial to oil; less stress on it. Stop-and-go puts more stress on your engine than highway driving.

There is a note of caution: every few months, you have to inspect the oil through the dipstick. Ensure that the level is ok. On a Mercedes, you check the oil by running the engine for two minutes and then stopping the ignition; then you take your reading shortly afterwards. Contrary to how other vehicles are read. Top it if it's a little low. This means that you should have a quart extra. You can always get that later. -- and that's after many months.

au.hanson:


Well spoken Trac, thanks for this educative info, its so informative .

However , what is that vital component that was taken away from mobil 1 that made you turn away from it? Does that affect the durability of the oil, or tear and wear in the engine? Based on this factor, can you still recommend Mobil 1 to someone?

Also, what brand oil do you now use for your MB(Mercedes Benz)? Can it be obtainable here, and how long does it last before next oil change , does it protect like mobil1?

You are welcome.

An antiwear element was removed or reduced due to environmental regulations (to be more environmental-friendly). Mobil One 0w-40 was in two configurations; Fully Synthethic and SuperSyn. I think the SuperSyn superceded the Fully Synthetic but both were sold in the stores at the time. Supersyn guaranteed 15,000 miles and it had reference to AMG's. Now, there isn't any super, the fully-version only says "exceeds MB's Sheet 229.3/5" and no 15,000 mile guarantee or AMG reference. There is no doubt that Mobil compensated for it but I'm no chemist. Other brands may have been affected; not just Mobil 1 to meet stringent environmental-friendly standards.

The durability of the oil is not affected. Mobil isn't guaranteeing extended intervals as they did before. I don't have the technical documentation either for the changes. I take reciprocating interactions very serious. Lubricants have always been of great interests and caution to me. I use oil that has greater poly-alphaolefine than M1. It's the base element and it is also very expensive. I use amsoil. You won't find that where you are because it isn't sold in stores but through mere people but expensive. It's a family-owned company. You have to find an authorised retailer and purchase in large amounts. I have a retailer in the next city and I buy it from his home and I get as much information as I can from him. I get to see independent tests and they are notorised, thus official.

Will I recommend M1 to anyone? If you are driving a Mercedes, that's what I'll tell them to get or the other approved MB oils. If it meets or exceeds 229.5, then they should get it. It's still standards all MB model lineup (as of today).

M1's are good; there are alternatives. On the list of MB approved alternatives, some outperformed M1's.

Siena: Trac, for the purpose of this thread, the Volvo 5-cylinder engine is an inline 5. Audi have always expressed their 5 cylinder motors as I5's since their introduction in 1976. The same goes for the Mercedes-Benz OM series 5 cylinder diesel engines that were introduced around 1974.

The I5 conrods are still aligned on a single-plane crankshaft, which is where the I reference comes from, regardless of secondary-order vibration, which is an inherent characteristic of an I5 motor.

Thanks! I've noted the correction.

It is not an I5 but L5. BXXX engines are not inline (straight as previously stated). An inline is what you have in a BMW.

A 5 has disturbances within the laws of physics at the half-order (1/2) but smooth at the first and second orders respectively. This vibrational frequency is completely eliminated by dispersing it through (across) the engine bay. That is the entire engine front of the car (radiator support, side fenders and the firewall; the entire perimeter).

Volvo 5 cylinders are the true Volvo engines that is still designed by in-house Volvo engineers. The 4's, 6's and 8's are not traditional Volvo engines. They also aren't Swedish.

To know engine configurations by sight on site, have someone explain it to you on site. Some are easy to tell and some aren't easy to tell on site. There are cues and you should be explained to what to look out for. For example: a car with a congested bay and a block cover may offer no information; you wouldn't be able to count headers (if you choose this route to determine) and so on. There are many ways.

yungboss: Trac,
thanx for exposing nether areas, incredible insight it must be aknowledged! i've followed this thread on every page...i will definitely go the 'benz' way again at some time in future hence my keen attention.
Good thread kuntash...

You are welcome. All the best in the future when you decide "benzing" again.

In as much as I'm familiar with the concept of automotive and I can't answer the questions. I don't remember the power and torque of my vehicles. The other questions can be answered comprehensively.

au.hanson:



The email notification is a major issue now in nairaland, it could be the traffic is more than the capacity of the server
Thanks for the info on the German law on bio-degradable.Next time b4 any such law they shld consult us in naija...

For your info on Mercedes Benz cooling,i would love to read it, hope to find it else u would have to send me the link to save me the trouble, even though i have already resolved that issue. see " https://www.nairaland.com/1087033/reliability-c180/1#14256405 "

For the fuel gauage wahala, i'll find techron first of all, if it dosent worked out , then i'll have to change the oil-pressure-sending-unit.But pls before then, where is this unit situated in the car?

Finally, beacuse of the outrageous price of mobil 1(0w40), and in a 4 litre gallon for about N8,500, can total quartz 9000(0w40) or (5w40),in a 5 litre gallon that cost about N8,000.00 be used to replaced mobil 1, and for the same duration of like 12-15 months in my benz c180 and benz 190?

Expecting your reply, thanks

The e-mail notification: is the grand administrator aware of the issue?

Quite frankly, you will have to replace your fuel sending unit. Techron will not resolve that anomaly. A slight incorrect reading is mostly attributed to sulphur in the tank. A full tank reading half or something to that effect is a faulty sending unit. The service is inexpensive.

Mobil 1 (M1) might be expensive but in your situation, well worth it. The other brands may not last as long and might not sheer-protect as well. The specification given is MB Sheet 229.5. What that means to you is that MB's standard of that is multigrade oil, is super synthetic and it is in the fifth-group oil category. The engine was built around MB Sheet 229.1 fourth-group oil category; I think that was MB Sheet Spec 229.3 (if I'm not wrong) and MB updated the documentation to Sheet 229.5. You will not find 229.1 anywhere today. Putting any oil in the crankcase will not meet the minimum requirement MB designed the engine to function within its operational state. You then create certain conditions that MB did not factor in the design. This will be evident when you do a UOA (used oil analysis).

Don't get me wrong; there are certain oils that exceed the MB 229.3 sheet specification. It will be stated in the back of the quart bottle; e.g. meets or exceeds MB Sheet 229.3 specification. Mercedes also gave oil alternatives for use.

https://www.nairaland.com/520025/mercedes-benz-thread/8#8311340

Some of them where not weighted at 0w-40 but specified as SAE 0w-30 or SAE 5w-30. The brands of the oils were specified. I might have listed them last years but it's all on this thread.

The advantage is that you use M1 for an extended period of time before replacement. If you would use an alternative, it must state at the back "Meets MB's 229.5 Sheet requirements."

https://www.nairaland.com/520025/mercedes-benz-thread/8#8317669
https://www.nairaland.com/520025/mercedes-benz-thread/7#8294601

In my humble opinion, if you find another brand that states the 229.3 sheet specification at the back, go for it. M1 changed their formulation many months back and I stopped using it. Something very essential was taken away for the sake of the environmentalists. The Total oil should not be anywhere around an European vehicle. Many European cars need "European Car Formula." It is an oil specification and it is a strict standard. You are only going to waste your money.

Heating/Cooling: https://www.nairaland.com/520025/mercedes-benz-thread/5#8130012

This post was left undefended on purpose. There was no point giving a comprehensive lesson on the discipline of heat transfer and thermodynamics. If Nigerians and Nigerian mechanics don't believe the five pillars of engineering and the laws/principles applying to them, little can be done.

https://www.nairaland.com/983235/car-overheatssomeone#11381867


It never dawned on me how much information I dispersed on NL in relation to Mercedes. It will be difficult for anyone here on NL to believe that I am a Porschephile. Well, this also is because MB's are predominant amongst Nigerians. Follow it through carefully and try getting the previous conversations to understand what the information addressed. Time was set aside for many of the posts to make it as comprehensible to the majority as possible without affecting the integrity of what I was trying to relay.