₦airaland Forum

NiyiOmoIyunade:
My Oga TrippleDots! I hail una o
ba mi, I greet

1. I guess the Fronius is on the AC input side of the Victron Multi/Quattro? Please confirm
confirmed

What PV related assistants are you running on the Multi/Quattro to manage energy flow.
By PV assistant you mean that small package that is started on VE.config/Pv inverter tab right? the settings are just total installed pv capacity and installed pv inverter capacity then assistant is sent to the device

Are you using the default frequency shift thresholds or more aggressive/conservative ones.
default

2. If the actual loads are within 10kw per phase where you have 15kva inverters you should look to your wiring on the load side - the most frequent cause of the generic 'overload' light flashing is actually faulty wiring.
i really hope it is faulty wiring, because this happens on not less than 3 installations

You are looking for all neutral wires for the inverter loads properly moved to an isolated inverter load bus/DB and all neutral wires for non inverter loads moved to the mains DB. Any crisscross of neutrals between mains and inverter side causes these kinds of issues.
yeah, this would have been a probable cause. But the entire premises is purely run on inverter. Mains is sent directly to Acin1 on the quattro multis

If you are pressed for time or want the easy way out, move the inverter supply to AC out 2 and set a suitable assistant to run ACOut2 off battery and prevent overloads.
ok. erstwhile, I haven't played with Ac out 2. New terrain for me

See sample assistant setup below - the red circled (de)activates AC Out from battery based on battery voltage - you could also use SoC or other parameter

The blue circled abi na rectangled protects the inverter from an overload situation e.g in the case below for my house disconnect AC out 2 if loads higher than 9,500 watts for 60 seconds and reconnect or activate AC out 2 if loads under 9,500watts for 200 seconds.
Quite informative. But this overload sometimes happens at no load situation like in the night. Note that the installations are commercial ones hence almost all load goes off after COB yet I get overload over the night before daylight

Two things are important here -
1. The assistant logic is inverse so that START means STOP since the control is OPEN RELAY TO START.....

2. The backoff time for the AC contactor is tres importante - Victron backend dev strongly discourages the relay cycling rapidly ON/OFF several times a minute - it would stick shut and need visit to service center hence I give a mandatory 3 minutes (200 seconds) rest and cool off period if ever the inverter overloads and a 60 seconds of sustained high load before the inverter trips the AC out to allow large transients to pass with no trouble.
smart...noted

solareclips:
I have 2 scrapped tubular for sale, interested dm 08098808419

stuffs2002:
Good morning gurus,


Please which of this connection is better.

Connection 1
six solar panels connected in series/parallel to an MMPT charge controller in the manner as shown in the diagram

Connection 2
Six solar panels all connected in parallel to a PWM charge controller as shown in the second diagram

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Be wary of high float voltages for LFP....

NiyiOmoIyunade:
There are at least 2 to 4 Victron devs here.

ahhh...where them dey oh. I will like to discuss some system anomaly I have observed on some Victron installations.

Sometimes the greatest things come in humble packages. ...True

But to the matter - say your system runs the ESS assistant, the power assist and dynamic current limiter functions of the inverter are disabled/unchecked but ESS has it own way of managing these things.

Throttling the Gen load demand implies sufficient PV production to service loads and therefore no need for the Gen to run.
well, thats true but you know PV supply fluctuates alot na, so there are times when the pv supply is low and that time then gen is revd to its set load limit.... If the system calls for the Gen to assist loads or battery charging and is simultaneously throttling the Gen output, you can see how that is not very productive correct, but you know I am not using the ESS system yet just normal gen start/stop command parameters on the GX for a 3phase configuration. So assuming the gen was started by the GX based on say SoC command, the gen will run till the off threshold is reached. Within that running period, PV inverter harvest can be great enough to make the system derate its load on the DG, just as it would have done if it was grid that was inputed at the time. Thats my point

What you describe typically happens when the Gen was manually started (outside the ESS and GX autostart parameters) or the Generator start/stop was suboptimally setup or the ESS multiphase regulation was set to 'total of all phases' in a 3 phase system with Generator assist or the Gen is oversized for the application. True, but I have seen it happen when DG is run by Gen start/stop command automatically

More than one of the above can be true per time.

Most customers would struggle with the Gen being started during the day in the face of sufficient PV except you have undersized the PV relative to load demand. There is a scenario where the Gen is needed to support peak loads and if properly done the Gen will be sized to be just able to provide the balance of energy in the system and hence there should be no throttling.

In short, the overriding philosophy in all systems I know is to run the Gen as hard as it can handle and not derate or buck under the burden. If the Gen is oversized as Nigerians like to do, then good money was and is just being thrown away.

If your design goal is to co-run the Gen efficiently e.g a PV Diesel application that is best done by sizing the Gen properly or failing that an external control loop to force the Gen to run in its most efficient power band per time.

If I will leave any nuggets it will be below;
1) In a PV inverter or mixed AC/DC coupled application, ensure Gen is connected to a separate inverter input, designated as Gen on the GX and never manually started (look to the ESS control setpoints and AGS parameters like 'Quiet Hours' to lockout Gen start in the presence of PV)

NiyiOmoIyunade:
There are at least 2 to 4 Victron devs here.

ahhh...where them dey oh. I will like to discuss some system anomaly I have observed on some Victron installations.

Sometimes the greatest things come in humble packages. ...True

But to the matter - say your system runs the ESS assistant, the power assist and dynamic current limiter functions of the inverter are disabled/unchecked but ESS has it own way of managing these things.

Throttling the Gen load demand implies sufficient PV production to service loads and therefore no need for the Gen to run.
well, thats true but you know PV supply fluctuates alot na, so there are times when the pv supply is low and that time then gen is revd to its set load limit....[/b]If the system calls for the Gen to assist loads or battery charging and is simultaneously throttling the Gen output, you can see how that is not very productive [b]correct, but you know I am not using the ESS system yet just normal gen start/stop command parameters on the GX for a 3phase configuration. So assuming the gen was started by the GX based on say SoC command, the gen will run till the off threshold is reached. Within that running period, PV inverter harvest can be great enough to make the system derate its load on the DG, just as it would have done if it was grid that was inputed at the time. Thats my point

What you describe typically happens when the Gen was manually started (outside the ESS and GX autostart parameters) or the Generator start/stop was suboptimally setup or the ESS multiphase regulation was set to 'total of all phases' in a 3 phase system with Generator assist or the Gen is oversized for the application. True, but I have seen it happen when DG is run by Gen start/stop command automatically

More than one of the above can be true per time.

Most customers would struggle with the Gen being started during the day in the face of sufficient PV except you have undersized the PV relative to load demand. There is a scenario where the Gen is needed to support peak loads and if properly done the Gen will be sized to be just able to provide the balance of energy in the system and hence there should be no throttling.

In short, the overriding philosophy in all systems I know is to run the Gen as hard as it can handle and not derate or buck under the burden. If the Gen is oversized as Nigerians like to do, then good money was and is just being thrown away.

If your design goal is to co-run the Gen efficiently e.g a PV Diesel application that is best done by sizing the Gen properly or failing that an external control loop to force the Gen to run in its most efficient power band per time.

If I will leave any nuggets it will be below;
1) In a PV inverter or mixed AC/DC coupled application, ensure Gen is connected to a separate inverter input, designated as Gen on the GX and never manually started (look to the ESS control setpoints and AGS parameters like 'Quiet Hours' to lockout Gen start in the presence of PV)

NiyiOmoIyunade:
I hear you boss but I am not sure I agree. I say often that because something appears to 'work' does not mean it is/has been done correctly.

The Victron ESS and PV inverter assistant algorithms are designed to prioritise use of solar first then battery (if self consumption is desired) then Grid and lastly Generator.

In the presence of PV the system will throttle Grid usage to the minimum possible based on current system state and settings (Grid Set Point), if the system starts a Generator and Generator power provided on a correctly designated AC input then the system will flog the Generator for the max input current limit.

Consider that Diesel Gens save diesel consumption within specific loading bands, it is incorrect to assume that the inverter algorithm will automatically throttle Generator load demand into the next possible lower consumption band except somebody took the pain to implement an external control loop to this effect (which control loop is not a trivial undertaking). The inverter simply has no knowledge of the Gen capacity or diesel consumption saving band except for the input current limit set for the AC input the Gen is connected to. This setting is targeted to not overload the Gen and does not contemplate running the Gen 'efficiently'

Ajanidokun:
1kva inverter system for sale

1kw 12v must hybrid inverter (PV18-1012VPM)
- 50Amps inbuilt MPPT
- 20amps max AC charging
- lithium charging profile
-manual is available

12V 200AH LifePO4 battery
-100A BMS
-coupled by Pelton batteries
- still under warranty

Solar Panels
-260watt Bestcom solar panel (2pcs, bought brand new)

Others
6mm wires and breaker

Cons... The switch on the side of the inverter does not turn off the inverter completely, instead the battery breaker is used to turn off the system.

Price - 420k

Optional
1pcs Qasa AC/DC fan --15k

WhatsApp: 080-52-SixFive-1572

Whytehandy:
Good afternoon house, please I need a recommendation for a good 5KVA 24V smart hybrid inverter with low self-consumption (preferably wallmount type) with lithium charging capacity that I can use for my 1.5Hp inverter AC, fridge, freezer and other basic load like TV, fan and light.

A friend has already helped me to build a 230ah24V lithium battery bank and am also planning to buy at least 2400W solar panels.

I beg help me with the right choice of inverter as I am confused on what to go for. Thanks and God bless.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
...1) An AGS (automatic gen start) powered off the Schneider 'XanBus' network will go offline in case of inverter failure or battery LVD - the inverter provides power to the XanBus network.

So imagine a situation where inverter goes off and Gen cannot be called to start because the device that is responsible to start the Gen is powered from inverter.

From experience, this has its drawback too though because, I have had Victron trip off on a phony overload error, and this happened at an odd hour and the inverters were not really being used..... Battery went down, Venus called for gen meanwhile the inverters were out. The gen ended up running for hours just wasting diesel till it was observed and the issue was resolved. I know that an alarm notification properly set up helps mitigate such anyways.



To your specific question, Victron throttling the Generator production in the presence of AC PV from the Fronius is a result of suboptimal settings or non kosher install.

On the GX device you must designate properly whether AC In 1 is Grid or Generator and ditto for AC In 2, you must also supply the inverter with power from Mains and Generator directly to each corresponding AC Input - the system will then start the Gen when needed and load/flog it correctly.

In the setup you described, there was probably a traditional ATS that switches Mains and Gen through a common output - we encounter this all the time in the field and either run out wires directly from the ATS to provide Mains and Gen separately to the inverter or employ a suitable contactor that switches the common ATS supply to Generator or Mains port of the inverter as appropriate.

The settings were actually done properly and all ACin inputs tagged appropriately in venus o, also cables supplying ACin 1 & ACin2 are direct from source no ATS in-between.. The dynamic reduction from the gen as Fronius harvest increased is actually a good feature as it helps to reduce diesel consumption overall. I just needed your explanation as to why that attenuation occurs.

Thanks boss for your inputs.

samnaija:
My brother I am using rebuilt inverters 5kva and 7kva, with transformers. there is a chap in arena that redesigns the inverter to your spec. The best thing about this , is the parts are always available.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
This looks like a ready install where these questions should have already been answered at the design stage.

TLDR;;; - you very likely want the AC Coupled Option 2 below - by now I believe Schneider must have made firmware updates that make things better and smoother for the system designer/installer

Broadly, you can use the Fronius PV inverter in one of 2 ways

1) Grid-tie;- where you connect the Fronius and Mains into AC In 1 - in this config, the Fronius will only make power from PV where mains is available - without mains, it will shut down and go to sleep. This is the simplest usage scenario optimized for selling excess PV to grid.

The PV energy from the Fronius will first go to supply loads on AC Out and battery charging and all the excess will be exported to grid - big downside there will be no PV energy made when mains is down so not suitable for offgrid - there are a couple of schemes that may work around this but need extra expenditure.

2) AC Coupled;- this scenario is suitable for offgrid use and essentially sets up a micro grid where you connect the Fronius Inverter to the Schneider AC Out. Certain settings need to have been preset or else sparks may fly - see caveats below

a) Appropriate micro grid settings (e.g MG 50) selected on the Fronius

b) Schneider Conext XW+ or Pro must have appropriate frequency shift settings configured

c) A generator connected to AC In 2 must be fitted with a certain Schneider approved contactor/relay that opens the Fronius PV input whenever the generator is running. You do not, I repeat you do not want to feed in excess PV energy into your generator or else something must break. Of course you can jury rig your own contactor to isolate the PV but warranty is lost.

d) Battery charging by reversing energy from the Schneider AC Out is not automatic - care must be taken to configure appropriate [b] time of use [\b] settings for battery charging - you may need a PLC or Raspberry Pi or other logic controller to make this work smoothly for you else a lot of the Fronius PV potential will be wasted.

e) Size of Fronius PV can not over power the Schneider AC Out - Victron use the factor 1:1 rule so a 6kw inverter can only be mated with a max of 6kw PV or Fronius inverter size limited to 6kw PV output/passthrough - Schneider relax this rule somewhat so allow a roughly 1:1.3 size ratio but I would advise to stick to 1:1 as a max for safety and tolerance.

f) The Fronius will only run when it can sense electricity and then it wakes up and syncs its frequency to match - if your system goes off due to low battery, the Fronius cannot automatically wake it up next solar day, you will need to cold boot the system or preferably have a separate PV with a DC coupled charge controller to put some energy in the batteries and eventually wake the system up.

I could not see any DC coupled elements in your picture and this part is critical to a stable system especially if targeted for industrial use or mission critical

For the pundits when I say connect the Fronius to Inverter AC Out or Mains supply, I expect a distribution/bus bar arrangement with appropriate fusing/breaking and isolation for [Mains supply + Fronius Output + Inverter AC In] or [Inverter AC Out + Fronius Output + Inverter Loads] - essentially you must be able to separately isolate each and every of the energy generators, processors and centrally the consumers for a code compliant install.

These are some of the things I remember from playing with these gadgets back in the day - I must say, my experiences sent me firmly into the hands of Victron as they do all these things so much better and elegantly and robustly.

bigrovar:
Recently carried out an ugrade of my solar array. Swapped out Yingli 335w x 9 for 9 Canadian Solar Hiku7 600w panels.

So far no have been very impressed with the performance. Even with the poor visibility and relatively poor solar yield season. This panels are pulling (consistently) over 83% of their rated capacity.
That's over 4.4kw of 5.4kw total PV capacity.



This with solar irradiance at just over 500 watt per meter² and ambience temperature of 37c (as reported by my personal weather station which has an irradiance sensor)

feflo:
For inverter sales, supply and installation, call or chat us on 08023662352, 08165304602

Idrismusty97:
Sterling bank take home for an entry level graduate after banking school is 270k. An experienced project manager for a full time role shouldn't take home anything less than 300k+.

samnaija:
Inverter is a transformer based, 5kva and 7.5kva inverter. Both carry my 1.5hp and 2 hp chigo ac. But of course 7.5kva does it better. And I don't on the 2 ac on the 5kva, but I can the 2 ac on the 7 .5 kva inverter.

samnaija:
My brother, your experience is what makes this thread strong. You are advising people ahead.
This issue was brought up a while back about inverter ac , and whether to use transformer based inverters.
I opted for transformer based inverters and I stuck with my normal ac. And it has been fine my neighbors inverter ac , keeps giving the guy problems and does not chill very well.

Sorry for your loss.
I

justcallmenuel:
7.5kwh 24v felicity lithium battery available, #80,000. Call/WhatsApp me 08168986461

oloet:
Wow! I thought they do, I dislike them sha 🤣

SolarEngr:
We have safety gadgets, but they make us feel unsafe, add more weight on us and inflexible. Thanks for your genuine concerns.

christy99:
Noted with thanks. Please how much did you get your lithium battery for? And contact of the seller will be appreciated

leokid866:
I honestly stopped caring after two years and zeroed my mind that I just jumped on the fad of the moment.

SolarEngr:
More pictures

oloet:
Away from your question, I pray the charge controller doesn't kill the batteries early

AdexAyanfe:
My people please I need your advise on this inverter setup in a small office and the administrative assistant sits very close to inverter setup. Is it healthy... considering possibilities of radiation and emission of acidic gases. The person sitting besides it do complain of headache most times and heat. 4 tubular batteries were used with 2kva Pure sine wave inverter. Please I will really appreciate your response.