₦airaland Forum

true2god: I dnt worship/protect any MOG. Jesus talkd about the wheat and the chaff dat always grow together in the field, but during harvest the wheats are harvested and the chaffs are gatherd togethr and burnt, since they are useless.

This parable illustrated by Jesus is typical of wats happening nau. Its quite true dat there are pple out there makin moni in the name of God (chaffs) while some are sincerley/fearfully leadin pple to God (wheats) and all of them are called MOGs (both the wheats and the chaffs). Cos u cant xpect anybody to be called 'a man of devil', even a herbalist.

So my point is dis, ur usual attempts @ painting all churches bad is not good. From church tithing topics to eternal torments topics, to fake miracle topics, to prosperity preaching topics, to speaking in toungue topics, to atheist who were once xtains and now ignore God topics (and frm ur responses on dat topic i could see a sense of hapiness and fulfilment in u for those pple who deny God) and a whole lot.

U see, no matter hw much u quote the bible dat does not refute the fact that u r indirectly drawin pple away frm the faith and u r making it difficult for pple dat never knw christ to further distance themselves away frm the gospel.

If u condemn do u make a better provision for pple to take or believe. Do u share positive testimony dat uplift pple's faith. The ansa is No!

While i believ that pple are so gullible and might hav been unduly taken advantage of by some supposedly MOGs, that does not give room for ur utter disregard for most pple dat God would hav given charge a large congreagation up to the point of using abusive languages occasionally.

And as i said again, u r slipping fast into atheism, that is if currently u r not one (go thru ur own thread; atheist: conversion and de-conversion experince)

U cannot expect perfection in a human organization, that will be loop-holes.

^^^ the last sentence.

So, "christinity" as you know it is a human organization?

Coming from you!

Then can you show us the MOG that is doing the work of God from this "man's organization"?

Are you not aware of the statement : know the truth and the truth will set you free"?

Frosbel is pointing out the fraud so as to set people free.

That ^^^ cant be a bad thing.

true2god: U see, no matter hw much u quote the bible

coming from someone that will not quote the bible and cannot do it well it is not surprising.

Abeg, comot for road.

true2god: Im not saying hes wrong. But someone will go out criticising anything xtainity without ever seeing any good thing being done by the xtain is mind-bugling. What Frosbel is telling most of us here is not new to many of us. I dnt think u hav taken time to go through most of the threads he created recently, u will understand me better.

There is wat we call 'a fifth columnist' whose responsibilty is to infiltrate a country or organization with a view of destroyin it, at the same time pretending to be loyal to their cause. Thats exactly where im goin to. Frosbel appear to me more of an atheist than a xtain hiding under the umbrella of xtainity. And dis is vry dangerous especially when a individual had a centrally skewed belief system.

I hav engaged many pple whose belief system i fully understand and whose points slightly vary mine. But when u dnt understand where an individual stands dat makes it more dangerous.

Logicboy is plain enogh to tell us that he is an atheist and any engagement with him will be easier since u already knw his opinion and stance on certain issues, but Frosbel seem to be an atheist who is biblically informed.

this ^^ is a deliberate attempt at defamation of character.

You should be ashamed.

Pastor Kun: Why do you guys find it so had to accept that the fact that someone is passionate about refuting false doctrines in the church does not mean one is loosing his faith. It is a christian's duty to refute false doctrines in the church and I believe frosbel is doing a great job at that. Asides prosperity gospel is clearly a greed motivated false doctrine inspired by Satan himself so fighting this evil doctrines should seen as defending the true faith.

thank you Kunle.

Dont mind the fraud @true2god.

He is crying since he has an interest in the fraud it seems.

With all the prosperity gospel, Nigeria and it citizens should have been the richest country by now. Alas, they are the poorest removing war turn countries.

Remove crude oil Nigerians will starve since they dont create/design any thing tangible, So, when crude oil dries up, he will see what a fraud he has been.

With all the miracle preaching one would have expected this church members, some of them engineers to design things miraculously through their promise of a miracle and extortion, but no. It just west their brains.

The bible says that "wisdom is seen by it works",

we will soon see.

.

.

true2god: That is if hes not presently an atheist, even a professed atheist (like logic boi)is not this crirtical to xtain values. I kinda think this guy is out there to destroy xtainity but he wont suceed.

Having followd his thread conciosly, this guy is fake. Never write anything to promote the body of christ but to destroy, always looking for loop-holes.

The bible called satan the accuser of the brethren.

but i know you very well with your lies.

when you cannot and does not know what the bible says how can you be the one to know who is fake?

Oh! You are angry since your means of making money is being attacked?

Why not go get a job then? At least at that point you will get more security with your finances and will not come crying when fraud stars are being criticised for being fraudulent.

Bidam: @ the emboldened...ofcos i know that, the joke was actually on you dumb head....did i mention altar as paradise in my post this lies don dey too much sha....i mention that fact in my post maybe you were too blind in marshaling your arguments to notice...i brought scriptures to prove my points, stop insinuating what Jesus said...has "today turned to that day"..see what JESUS said...let me use other translations so you wont do 419....
New International Version (©1984)
Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
New Living Translation (©2007)
And Jesus replied, "I assure you,[b] today you will be with me in paradise."

English Standard Version (©2001)[/b]
And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you sha[/b]ll be with Me in Paradise."

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
And He said to him, [b]"I assure you: Today you will be with Me in paradise."

International Standard Version (©2012)
Jesus told him, "I tell you with certainty, today you will be with me in Paradise."

... these are false(fallacy)...lemme quote again the translations so you won't miss the gist, be cos e be like say u no dey see(pharisee)....mat 12:40 connects 1 pet 3:19 Matthew 12:40 (King James Version)


Matthew 12:40
King James Version (KJV)
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.[/b]the bible said he died on the cross..did the bible tell us he died in the heart of the earth? if it did, pls show me the scripture. 1 pet 3 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, [b]that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19[b] By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
[/b]
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

it was immediately after death that the resurrection power hit the grave he was laid bro... and not after being unconscious for 3 days and three nights as you would have us believe..be cos the next verse stated clearly what he went to do within those three days and 3 nights. you can now see your lies and deceptions from the pit of hell abi....and its like you are having a hard time differentiating between spirit, soul and body..abegi go for foundational studies on that..

when Ijawkid will man handle you with all this your "nursery rhyme" your eyes go clear.

Lol.

Image123: @tislight
you'll never get or understand what I said or what anybody said if you continue in such bizarre way of cutting posts into incomplete phrases and attacking them. Why not take your time to read through, then answer back objectively. You're not even giving ears for a complete sentence before you quote and comment,its impossible to discuss that way. And your posts are also long by the way. i can most easily answer in one liners and boring trites if that's what will make you happier.

my post is long because i was replying to a long post.

musKeeto: Anony wouldn't be so 'sure' of his stand in Christ now if he hadn't been an atheist and quite strangely a 'satanist' too..

My point: everything has a purpose....

what

if you believe that then you will belief anything.

"The inexperience puts faith in every words" the bible" says

or

"The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going." (Proverbs 14:15).

not saying it is impossible for an atheist to have a change of mind.

We are all freewill/freemoral moral agent

frosbel: They only answer when it is convenient to do so, otherwise they bypass difficult scriptural passages !

that is risking carrying a teaching that contradict the bible and it is wrong.

The soul is the man and as such it has blood.

davidylan: Believe me, i tried to understand your post but i could not do so in the context of Matt 10:28. Was Jesus saying that you cannot kill the breath of God in you that makes you a living soul? What then happens to that breath? Where does it go and how does it get raised up at the resurrection? with what body?

that matthew is talking about man destroying the body but cannot destroy the soul.
But we should be in fear of God that can destroy both body and soul.

All men will all die with time.
But servant of God all have hope of a future life from God.


As servants of God Jesus was advising that we should not be in fear of the person that can only destroy the body, but that life that was given to the person, only God can decide that the person cannot have life again in the future even if we should be put to death by man, there is hope of a future resurrection.

That is soul = the life that we have as a result of the spirit of God that activated the body.

It is only God that can decide not to send back the spirit/breath back to bring the death man back.

So, if the death is caused by God, he will not send his spirit back to the person there by ensuring that both body and soul(life) of the person ceased permanently. No more resurrection.

But man cannot cause the future life of man to cease even though they destroy the body.

Encouraging us to serve God and not to be in fear of man since the future life is ensured by God.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]By subjective thoughts I mean how three people can come upon the same information, their brains go through the same process to interpret it and yet these three people have three different meanings of it.[/quote]ok, consider this scenerio:

three students were in a mathematical class of calculus:

student one(1) was playing with his handset thereby reducing the intake of information that will subsequently form his memory based of the subject matter so, when the scan for the output of the stored memory is done the output is 40% correct. (ignoring efficiency of their respective brain)


Student two(2) was distracted by the financial problem at home thereby reducing his concentration and the intake of information that will subsequently form his memory based of the subject matter, so, when the scan for the output of the stored memory is done the output is 60% correct. (ignoring efficiency of their respective brain)


Student three(3) was fully concentrated and the intake of information that will subsequently form his memory based of the subject matter was not hindered, so, when the scan for the output of the stored memory is done the output is 90% correct. (ignoring efficiency of their respective brain)

based on that ^^^ analogy, the realisation of what they(3 student) were all exposed to differ since external and internal forces affected the absorbtion(information intake) of the reality they were all exposed to though similar information.

So, "subjective reality" is relative to our memory base.

We cannot all hellucinate the same thing if induced but rather different things based on the information storage we individually have in our brain.
[quote author=Mr_Anony]Three different CPUs presented with the same information will result in three instances of the exact same outcome.[/quote]the cpu did not have different internal and external interference, since they are not self conscious(alive) like the human and it source of memory depends solely on the input and as such it output is proportional to the input.

But the cpu mode of sending out it output is similar to that of the brain since it is what it has on its memory that it will send out.

(abi, can you solve calculus if you did not first take it in?)

so then, what part exactly does the soul play in that ^^^ if it is distinct?

davidylan: Easy. We know that the "souls" used here is a figure of speech. If Christ said in Matthew 10 that man can only kill bodies, wouldnt this verse then be a direct contradiction... stating that men have actually killed souls?

hahaha,

that was not the question from frosbel:

frosbel: if a soul transcends mortality , why do we need a resurrection ?

Also can you explain this scripture :

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Also in thy skirts is found the blood of the souls of the poor innocents: I have not found it by secret search, but upon all these - Jeremiah 2:34

How can souls have blood if I may ask ?

^^^

"how can soul have blood" is the question he had asked you.

Please try again.

And the statement of Jesus may actually have a different meaning,

frosbel: if a soul transcends mortality , why do we need a resurrection ?

Also can you explain this scripture :

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Also in thy skirts is found the blood of the souls of the poor innocents: I have not found it by secret search, but upon all these - Jeremiah 2:34

How can souls have blood if I may ask ?

@frosbel
beautiful quote.

Lets wait, for their answers

Enigma: ^^^^ Did Jesus resurrect? Did His "soul" die in the meantime?

What kind of body did He have after resurrection?

@Enigma

please, how does what you wrote up there explained the scriptures frosbel quote

wiegraf: I don't even think it's a synergy per say, though it could be stated as so. The sum is greater than the parts. You have a car, the engine is responsible for combustion. A computer? The cpu is responsible for processing. A brain? It's responsible for consciousness. Really simple. Anything more complicates matters and seems completely unnecessary.

How did a machine become self conscious? Like the game of life, from simple to complex. Just like all nature, except the primary building blocks, more or else. Given billions of years and a nice great deal of time, machines as complex as us can evolve. The fact we're the only species we know of that has our level of sentience does not indicate some sort of deliberate design, at all. In fact it points in the completely opposite direction. But that's digressing a bit.

I can't remember where I read it but I understand all human tasks, processes etc can be simulated by a turing complete machine. In other words (in theory, we obviously don't have capable machines yet) a computer can reproduce any task a human can. That's obviously not a coincidence. I'll see if I can find my source though.

something ignited matter to life.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]I really don't know what next to say to you. As it lies, I can't tell if you are missing the point on purpose or if you truly aren't following.[/quote]Mr Annony, you said that the thought does not die as said by my translation and showed me another traslation that it is the plans of the man.
See:

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Psalm 146:3-4 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. (KJV)

Psalm 146:3-4 Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no help. When his breath departs he returns to his earth; on that very day his plans perish. (RSV)

Do you see the context now?[/quote]i really need you to addressed this.

We cannot be going round in circles

truthislight: plans perish ke?

So, if one was an architect and was building a structure and he suddenly dies the structure dies or what? Can another person continues with the structure construction

If the structure does not die, what then really dies?

Cant the plans of a man continue after his death?

to me it is very clear.

Then why did the bible say this?:

"The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence." (Psalm 115:17).
................

And why the silence when the "soul" is intelligent and existing?

Please, can you shade more light to those?
Thanks.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]I really don't know what next to say to you. As it lies, I can't tell if you are missing the point on purpose or if you truly aren't following.[/quote]Mr Annony, you said that the thought does not die as said by my translation and showed me another traslation that it is the plans of the man.
See:

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Psalm 146:3-4 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. (KJV)

Psalm 146:3-4 Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no help. When his breath departs he returns to his earth; on that very day his plans perish. (RSV)

Do you see the context now?[/quote]i really need you to addressed this.

We cannot be going round in circles

truthislight: plans perish ke?

So, if one was an architect and was building a structure and he suddenly dies the structure dies or what? Can another person continues with the structure construction

If the structure does not die, what then really dies?

Cant the plans of a man continue after his death?

to me it is very clear.

Then why did the bible say this?:

"The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence." (Psalm 115:17).
................

And why the silence when the "soul" is intelligent and existing?

Please, can you shade more light to those?
Thanks.

Mr Annony, you said that the thought does not die as said by my translation and showed me another traslation that it is the plans of the man.
See:

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Psalm 146:3-4 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. (KJV)

Psalm 146:3-4 Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no help. When his breath departs he returns to his earth; on that very day his plans perish. (RSV)

Do you see the context now?[/quote]to which i ask the bellow question:

truthislight: plans perish ke?

So, if one was an architect and was building a structure and he suddenly dies the structure dies or what? Can another person continues with the structure construction

If the structure does not die, what then really dies?

Cant the plans of a man continue after his death?

are you honestly saying you did not get the meaning of that question or you were averting the question so as not To admit that the thought of a man as produce by the brain dies?

Then why did the bible say this?:

"The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence." (Psalm 115:17).
................

And why the silence when the "soul" is intelligent and existing?

Please, can you shade more light to those?
Thanks.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]First of all let me correct something; scroll up and read my posts. I never brought up the term "immortal soul" on this thread, you did. It is a very dubious way to argue when you try to pin a phrase you have created on me and then when I remind you that it was not my creation you immediately claim I am retracting from it. How can I disown something I didn't own in the first place? Please stop it.
If you want to have an argument with me please be sure that you are actually paying attention to what I am saying and countering appropriately. Don't create your own arguments, brand me upon them and then argue against the same argument that you created.
All I have been arguing on this thread is that the soul is distinct from the body and that it survives after physical death. My argument is not concerned with if the soul lives forever or not.


Now if you claim that body + spirit = soul, Isaiah 10:18 which refers to body and soul will be: "body" and "body + spirit". It makes no literary sense.





I'll admit that pneuma can also mean mental disposition - my mistake. However, pneuma also means angel, spirit, ghost, mind, breath, and wind. My problem with you is that you are trying to force a singular meaning of the word pneuma into all contexts including those that are incompatible with the meaning you are trying to propagate.

For instance when the bible talks about evil spirits or the Holy Spirit, it is the same word pneuma that is used. This shows that pneuma is used to describe a personal entity. It bothers me that you try very much to panelbeat scripture to fit into your doctrine e.g what you tried to do with 1Thessalonoans 5:23




The question remains why would anyone ask such a question of where the spirit is going to if it is believed that the spirit does not last after physical death

Also consider Ecclesiates 12:7 For then the dust will return to the earth, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

It is clear Solomon knew that the spirit left the body and returned to God....also consider when Christ says "Father into thy hands I commit my spirit". Clearly when Solomon says that man is dust, he means the flesh is dust not the spirit.

I hope that with this we at least agree that there is more to man than his body and that a non-physical aspect of man leaves his body when he dies. What I do not agree with is your definition of a man's spirit as "impersonal life force"

Why the spirit is not an impersonal life force:

1. First of all it immediately contradicts your earlier depiction of spirit as mental state/character because it cannot be impersonal and yet be used to define a personality trait/character.

2. The word ruach/pneuma have been used used to describe very personal characteristics such as knowledge (1Corinthians 2:11), and even entire persons like the Holy Spirit and evil spirits.

3. I wonder how you can logically come to the conclusion that the very thing that defines a man's personality without which man is dead matter is itself impersonal.[/quote]that God spirit/breath of life is an impersonal force, to that you said this:

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Why the spirit is not an impersonal life force:

1. First of all it immediately contradicts your earlier depiction of spirit as mental state/character because it cannot be impersonal and yet be used to define a personality trait/character.[/quote]is man's "character" the man person or it is a man's disposition?

If yes, the character = the man, can we conclude that since people have different characters as such they are different percie(man and gorilla) or that they are all still "mankind" though they have different characters?

If though they have different characters, but we still call all of them "man", it then means that "character" is not the man but trait that man possesses and man can change his character any time without it affecting the fact that he is still the man person.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]3. I wonder how you can logically come to the conclusion that the very thing that defines a man's personality without which man is dead matter is itself impersonal.[/quote]the radio and computer also comes to life abate differently from the man, but it talks, sing, etc. But that power, the current that enables the radio to do such is an impersonal force. No? Does the current have intelligence or carried the intelligence to the radio? Or it is the intelligent designed of the radio that enabled it to talk? Which exactly?

The spirit of God that subsequently fell upon the apostles of christ, was it a person entering into an already inhabiting person in them or a replacement person?

The truth is that it was the power of God that gave them extra capacity? Though higher capacity and ability.

The spirit of God is not a person but rather the power of God that he uses it to do all sort of things and it manifest in divers forms but NEVER a person.

Just like the current powers an intelligent design computer/radio to talk and performs.

Peace

mazaje: The body is made up of billions of living cells. . .when they die off begin to rot away what do you expect?. . .So soul is the countless living cells or what?

when this ^^^ is alive is what the bible calls the "soul" and that includes the brain, and it was the "breath of life/spirit" of God that kickstarted it.

When that spirit goes of, it all dies off.

Deep Sight: Let us not fall into error. You do not have a soul. You are the soul. (In saying this, as we are at such an elementary stage of conditional consensus only, I will for now make no distinction between soul and spirit).

You are in fact that soul, not that you have one. This is why you exercise control over your brain. This is why you take decisions such as deciding to stand up now and take a few steps towards the door. This is a decision that you make, and which is processed through, and implemented by your brain. It is not a decision that the brain just by itself conjures for its own purposes to satisfy itself. This is the only way to sensibly regard your proprietary control of your brain. Because it shows that your brain is a tool, an organ, which enables you to apprehend and process physical reality.

As such, your question is upside down. The soul is not serving a function for the body. The body is serving functions for you - the soul. The body is enabling you to live, dwell in, apprehend and process the physical realm.

Simple.

Hmmm!

One more thing, can this "soul" exit the body just as the spirit exit the body?

[quote author=Mr_Anony]By subjective thoughts I mean how three people can come upon the same information, their brains go through the same process to interpret it and yet these three people have three different meanings of it.[/quote]ok, consider this scenerio:

three students were in a mathematical class of calculus:

student one(1) was playing with his handset thereby reducing the intake of information that will subsequently form his memory based of the subject matter so, when the scan for the output of the stored memory is done the output is 40% correct. (ignoring efficiency of their respective brain)


Student two(2) was distracted by the financial problem at home thereby reducing his concentration and the intake of information that will subsequently form his memory based of the subject matter, so, when the scan for the output of the stored memory is done the output is 60% correct. (ignoring efficiency of their respective brain)


Student three(3) was fully concentrated and the intake of information that will subsequently form his memory based of the subject matter was not hindered, so, when the scan for the output of the stored memory is done the output is 90% correct. (ignoring efficiency of their respective brain)

based on that ^^^ analogy, the realisation of what they(3 student) were all exposed to differ since external and internal forces affected the absorbtion(information intake) of the reality they were all exposed to though similar information.

So, "subjective reality" is relative to our memory base.

We cannot all hellucinate the same thing if induced but rather different things based on the information storage we individually have in our brain.
[quote author=Mr_Anony]Three different CPUs presented with the same information will result in three instances of the exact same outcome.[/quote]the cpu did not have different internal and external interference, since they are not self conscious(alive) like the human and it source of memory depends solely on the input and as such it output is proportional to the input.

But the cpu mode of sending out it output is similar to that of the brain since it is what it has on its memory that it will send out.

(abi, can you solve calculus if you did not first take it in?)

so then, what part exactly does the soul play in that ^^^ if it is distinct?

Kay 17: I don't think proprietary context do or assist in understanding the mystery of our consciousness. The brain can't be effectively separated from a living body (within human experience) without losing consciousness.

Presently, the dynamics and the complexity of the human brain has given us insights to our understanding of languages, thoughts, awakening. More like our CPU. The biochemical explanations seem stronger and more practical than the soul explanation.

actually the coming to life of all this part that makes up the body is what the bible refers to as the "soul"(life) and it is not a distinct entity from the parkage

Logicboy03: Deep Sight

Furthermore, I can see through your Anonyism and Dinesh tactics to put in a straw man and try to phrase the mind as a "being" so that you can slyly insert the soul as being within humans.


The mind is not a being. Stop the lies. It is a function of the brain.

why not call the mind the output/result/intent from the brains action(scan) just like the output from the scanning from a computer.

Logicboy03: Mtchew. The whole is more than the summation of parts. You have to understand that the brian is at the centre of our consciousness and our body system but we have blood, valves, nerves and neurons that have to work within and outside of the brain for our brain/consciousness to arise.

The word "mind" explains it, The brain is the organ while the mind is simply the result of brain working with the summation of other parts of the body.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Psalm 146:3-4 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. (KJV)

Psalm 146:3-4 Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no help. When his breath departs he returns to his earth; on that very day his plans perish. (RSV)

Do you see the context now?[/quote]plans perish ke?

So, if one was an architect and was building a structure and he suddenly dies the structure dies or what? Can another person continues with the structure construction

If the structure does not die, what then really died?

The bible said the thought dies.
Lol.

Image123: Fortunately, believers will never die according to Jesus.
Joh 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.


sorry about length. i try to explain and also to touch everything said instead of picking and choosing sentences without considering context. i will change

dont you like this scripture? :

"The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence." (Psalm 115:17).

Image123: Oh, making sense does not count again? Most of you build on emotion

What are you talking about?

Image123: by saying it is irrational for God to punish people for eternity.

for sadist like you it makes sens, and all this is in your mind.

The bible says out of the abundance of the heart/mind the mouth speaks.

I can imagine how cruel your heart is then.

Image123: i used your approach now and you say it doesn't count? The Bible does not record the bolded.

i dont know what you are saying my friend.

Image123: Instead, it says
Rev 14:9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, If any man worshippeth the beast and his image, and receiveth a mark on his forehead, or upon his hand,
Rev 14:10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 and the smoke of their torment goeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name.

what is all this?

Dont let let me feel you have nothing to say please.

If fire is the symbol of second death or everlasting destruction why are you unable to get the gist?

People or thing that God use fire to signifier the destruction means their death is final.
Get it?


Torment is not literal torment, but it is use for emphasis, or, is the hell in heaven where the throne of Yahweh and of christ is, and where his holy angels are?

what you posted is not literal.

Anything destruction referencing with fire by God in the bible signifies permanent destruction and ever and ever burning or forever and ever tormenting is for emphasis since the symbol is fire.

Have you forgotten that death and grave will be cast into this fire? I guess grave will also be torment forever and ever.
U need to upgrade.

Image123: You are supporting my position tislight. Frosb and the gang say that the sinners will be raised and then killed again, but i'm saying NO, that's senseless and unbiblical.

they will be raise and taught the word of God and be given an opurtunity to chose christ like we have the opurtunity today.
Those that rejects it will not be fit for the kingdom of God and as such they will be destroyed.

Image123: What the Bible says and that you just said is that they will be judged.

Judgement day is 1000yrs,

Image123: Their sentence will be ETERNAL damnation.

after they have been resurrected and the unrighteouse in God's memory who have not
heard about the christ will be taught from the scrolls to make an informed choice like we do.
Those that refuse will be destroyed eternally

Image123: No, i said it doesn't make sense for them to be disturbed.

we are not here to discuss what makes sens to you but rather what the bible says.

Image123: What's with you and selective reading? Why should a sinner that has been dead since 6000years ago be raised,

the bible says "all" in the grave will come out.
John 5:28 & Rev 20:12.

Image123: Why should death and hell give up all the dead,

to be taught about christ & Yahweh that they have not heard of befor so that it forms the basis of there judgement.
some people that have died in the past are better than you.

Image123: and then they are killed again. That makes no sense and is not in the Bible.

yes it is = all the dead. John 5:28 read!

Image123: What is in the Bible is that they will be punished forever.

the wages of sin is death the bible says.

Image123: This makes some sense, but most importantly, Where is this in the Bible?

"For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed, For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved, How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?" <<<

and how shall they hear without a preacher? (Romans 10:10-15)

Image123: The KJV you are fighting with hardly translates the same word as grave. You do err.

the kjv is not consistent in translating the word hell, that is why it said Jesus went to hell(fire)

Image123: Consider that the tongue is referred to as a fire, can the tongue be burnt by fire?
Jam 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity; so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

irrelevant.

Image123: You need deliverance of the TB Joshua form.

Image123: Please, frosb and the crew, correct this guy for me. He may not listen to me.

make your post shorter.

Bidam: nope...i spoke the truth and it hurt so bad..sori bro...

Bidam: the way you attacked the KJV is as if nobody should use the bible again..if we quote NIV and the other translations una go say it has also been compromised..no wonder the unbelievers(atheist and muslims,) have a perfect ground argument and accusation against we the christians..are u telling me Our God is the Author of Confusion??God is no author of confusion. And abegi no tell me say our fathers have missed it cos they used The KJv. The KJv has been used Of God to CONVERT AND EDIFY MORE PEOPLE THAN ANY OTHER VERSIONS IN HISTORY..it has been speaking to our ancient fathers the TRUTH even before you were born.

this is being purely emotional.

When you are over it you can come back.
Peace.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]My dear truthislight, I have never said that thought is the soul however you have misquoted Psalm 146:4 because thoughts as portrayed there is in regards to a man's future plans - a reading of the whole chapter and comparing with other translations should make this evident.

Please for your own good, stop this habit of bible verse poaching. It helps you not. And it blocks you from truly understanding the Word of God.[/quote]lol. Imagine!

See twisting!

So, when the person dies and the soul goes out the soul no longer have a future plan abi?

Lol.

Ok, twist this:

"The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence." (Psalm 115:17).
................

Ha ha ha.

Who is twisting now?

The soul is alive somewhere. imo!

So plans are the only thing that makes up thoughts that perish now abi?


[quote author=Mr_Anony]My dear truthislight, I have never said that thought is the soul however you have misquoted Psalm 146:4 because thoughts as portrayed there is in regards to a man's future plans - a reading of the whole chapter and comparing with other translations should make this evident.[/quote]very funny indeed.

Do you imagine you are talking to children?

So, it is only plans that makes up thought and that is the only thing about the soul that perish?

Soul what then and of what use is your defined soul?

Is this your soul not useless then? It sure is.

The creator of the human does not know what the soul is in the bible but plato does know.

Lol.

musKeeto: Red Eyed Rabbit... Check the linked thread...

Smh...

R. E. R = Red Eyed Rabbit. Lol.

Lol. Lol in ten languages.