₦airaland Forum

davidylan: This is quite senseless. The water cycle is an amazing example of intelligent energy conservation... gravity is precise down to a decimal point... but somehow they are all just accidents of nature? Incredible stupidity.

Thank you very much.

Having to explain this to someone that is not an infant gets very boring over time.

"common sense, not so common".

davidylan: @logicboy

What a slimy dishonest creature. The question i asked was WHAT CREATED NATURE? It just exists by magic?

exactly!

It takes a deceitful, dishonest mind to make the pronouncement: "there is no God".

How can one make such a fundamental proclamation without evidence makes one ashamed. It takes bigtime self delusion to get to that.

It is truthful indeed the statement:
"common sense, not so common".

True and factual that ^^^ statement is.

plappville: Don't tell me you are?

why not?

plappville: I no fit answer your questions oooo, maybe we fit check the scripture to know how righteous figures are buried...
Genesis 25:8-10 :Abraham
Genesis 23: 1-4: Sarah
Genesis 35:19-20: Rachel
Genesis 35:29: Isaac,
Genesis 49:33 and 50:1-13: Jacob
Genesis 50:26: Joseph (The Israelites went to great effort to bury his body in the Promised Land; they retained it for over 300 years in Egypt and after the Exodus during 40 years of wanderings before burying it.)

8 Then Abraham breathed his last and died at a good old age, an old man and full of years; and he was gathered to his people. 9 His sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah near Mamre, in the field of Ephron son of Zohar the Hittite, 10 the field Abraham had bought from the Hittites. There Abraham was buried with his wife Sarah

I tought we are to follow these people? anyway, will get back when am less busy...

the Jews attached too much importance to burial, when one of his apostles requested to go bury his father, but christ told him let the dead bury their dead.

Showing that what you pointed out has less significance.

Can you shade more light on what christ meant when he said "let the dead bury their dead"?

@Zikky
am really fed up with this person sef,
see this

oiseworld: This is exactly where am heading to. If you prosper by hearing and practicing what you hear in prosperity messages, then you have heard the truth. The truth is a complete package that includes both prosperity and righteousness,love,giving,kindness,fear of the Lord, etc. They cannot and should not be separated from the other. THEY ARE ALL ONE.
That's why coming in thru prosperity,good health, heaven, blessings are still the most effective ways of preaching the gospel.

Don't be more catholic than the pope. If people perish everyday you can't be more concern than the one who came to die for these people.

Zikky's comment will do:

Zikkyy: The prosperity teachings are very misleading! They are teaching greed. they are not just teaching people to be charitable only when there is a return, they are teaching them to invest (translate as 'sow') where it will yield the highest amount of return! (i.e. give to church/pastor). Giving for returns is never from a willing heart. It implies that giving will not be done when there is no return.

yes, the issue is on the evidence you have for the none existence of a God.

If you dont have evidence to show that God does not exist, i dont see the rationality for the claim that: "there is no God"

Kay 17: @truthlight

Your responses were incoherent and repetitive. About 5 of the same answers to diff issues.

You didn't seem to understand I'm saying because you keep repeating the same thing over and over and meddling issues. For example the mainframe example was meant to show how difficult it is to prove consciousness of another person, rather you dived in with who created the computer!

I will repeat myself again, the causal factors for structural complexity are known by experience. Man made complexities can easily be recognized as we are familiar with them. Namely cars, planes, ships. On the other hand we come across complexities that are natural without an intelligent hand. Namely mountains, rivers, planet formations, star formations, supernovae.

Now to claim natural complexities are man made is ridiculous because such is contrary to our familiarity and experience.

You get me?

your illustrations are narrow and does not consider the true nature of things.

You even assumed certain status quo came by chance:

Considering the proximity of the sun to the earth, any displacement away or closer to the earth will lead to doom for the earth. Ie, Too hot or too cold, it will lead to extinction of life on planet earth completely.

But you ignore that ^^^ also.

You even went ahead to use this inanimate things to compare with the human person and life on earth as being a product of chance:

Kay 17: On the other hand we come across complexities that are natural without an intelligent hand. Namely mountains, rivers, planet formations, star formations, supernovae.

you imagined that the planets are flying around outer space randomly. Lol.

My friend, not so, consider our solar system:
the planets are held in place by their relative forces of attraction and repulsion as they spine round outer space.

How do you think they remain together?
By chance? No.

simple, narrow minded your views are.

You really wished reality is what you imagined it to be, but they are more complex than you can imagine.

The irony is that you wished to and have pass on such to your fans, good for them, the brain was given to every body to serve their ends but refusal to use it means you will accept shit when it is dished out as food.

Ubenedictus: d apostles taught odas, they werent talking in d air, tradition is transmitted from one century to another, that is y paul said to hold even dat he taught by word of mouth.

My friend, life is involved in this things and hence, my interest here.

See, this thing is not a thing that God arrange in a way that any and anyhow person will be the channel for the "truth".

The apostles where used for the teaching of christ/christianity in the NT and it was the father that hand picked them for christ and christ did not do that by himself. How much more other people?

It was this apostles that are the channel for the truth.

If you decide to gamble that by taking the words of others, well, your choice.

The tradition are teaching of the apostles also, that is befor the epistle were written they dont contradict the scriptures.

Ubenedictus: d apostles taught odas, they werent talking in d air, tradition is transmitted from one century to another, that is y paul said to hold even dat he taught by word of mouth.

My friend, life is involved in this things and hence, my interest here.

See, this thing is not a thing that God arrange in a way that any and anyhow person will be the channel for the "truth".

The apostles where used for the teaching of christ/christianity in the NT and it was the father that hand picked them for christ and christ did not do that by himself. How much more other people?

It was this apostles that are the channel for the truth.

If you decide to gamble that by taking the words of others, well, your choice.

oiseworld: You are all the same. Jst like the woman in the story above.

if i may ask, How do the these men of God preach prosperity? Because I know you can't serve God half way.

The most important thing is that the gospel is been preached, either thru prosperity preaching or through hell fire messages.etc you can't separate the gospel of Christ.it is too large and it is one. Just like the Father,Son and HolyGhost.(trinity)

@truthslight,
Pls stay out if it tires u.

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:3-4).
..................

How can it saved people if it is not the truth?


peoples lives are at stake guy.

Ubenedictus: if u want to know d tradition they u must find them in the writtings of the earlier xtians.

by who?

During the apostles era?

After the death of the apostles? (1ce)

dont forget that the NT is an exclusive of the apostles teachings.

Ubenedictus: intarasting, unfortunately i'm not into bashing others, in extreme cases i consider it immature.

Good guy.

Ubenedictus: hw i wish d witness follow d same rule wen it come to bashing catholics, sadly they dont.

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:3-4).
.........................

get a bible and get their teaching and bash them back if it is false.

If you dont show it from the bible the people(JW) may not take you seriously.



My advice, note what Jesus said:


"But of that

day and hour

no one knows, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. " (Matthew 24:36).



Peace

debosky: @largerwhenindoubt

Even self confessed atheists can discuss giving better than some self proclaimed prosperity peddlers.

Bro are you sure you're an atheist?

even me sef have just been reading the guy and could not write again.

@lagerwhenindoubt

Good Job.

oiseworld: Now am getting a better picture to all this anti prosperity people, you just are inexperienced, and ha e not taken time to practice these teachings.
you say their are no secrets, what whole you say about this scripture.

Proverbs 11:24 One man gives freely, yet gains even more; another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty.

How would you explain that it is in giving that you get wealth. Isn't that a secret revealed? Get to
understand the Bible before you start criticizing.


To your second ?.
you should not be one side in preaching the gospel, ok. But failure in one is failure in all. If the bible instructs us to give to get wealth then failure to do soo is a sin.

Does the bible teach us not to help other people? No.

Does God loves a cheerful Giver? Yes.

Is that ^^^ the purpose of christianity? No.

See what the purpose of christianity is:


"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:3-4).
...............

Dont leave substance and be chasing the shadows.

Ubenedictus: one of them will be that the bread and wine of the memorial of christ's death is his body and blood. And no tradition isnt a smokescreen

if it is not a smoke screen why are you being selective and not pointing out who is qualified to say what a tradition is and who was qualified to give it and when it was written?

Ubenedictus: one of them will be that the bread and wine of the memorial of christ's death is his body and blood.

lol.

Is that ^^ the traditions?
Lol. Am disappointed guy.

Ubenedictus: the very traditions d apostles had b4 writing epistles and gospel, d very one they continued to have while they were writting d said epistle and gospel and they never cease to have even after they had written their respective epistle and gospel.

And which where when was this tradition written and by who?

Why did they not and should they not include it in the bible?

Chritianity was started by christ as opposed to the ways befor the coming of christ.

So, please, when, where was this tradition written and for who and for what purpose?
Thanks.

Image123: funny things. This deabrain is just here deceiving himself, and claiming stuff . I'll proceed with replies to the remaining questions when i have the time.

dont you think the deabrain is making more sense than you?

I mean, for some one that said he came to learn, he has learnt and started teaching sef.

Guy, stop this teaching of cruelty.

Stop abusing scriptures.

Do you think christianity has about forty thousands denominations for nothing?

There has been lots of fraud and twisting of the scriptures.

"He that does not love has not come to know God; for God is love." (1 John 4:.
.................

^^^
not selective love, but love for all.
He that rejects that love will be destroyed and he will lose out on God's love.

Lol.

bunching all issues together and posting selective replies.

Kay 17: If you read my post at all,

what is the meaning of this ^^ ?

The actual deceitful nature of people is beginning to show in this forum.

Endeavouring to maligned someone with such statement.

I addressed your post line by line while you simply bunch mine and made some statement that does not addressed all of my post.

Kay 17: I addressed this issue, that man made designs are recognised due to experience.

so you are saying from experience things are usually design right?

Take note of that ^ in the instance you start cherry picking.

Kay 17: A house in the middle of a forest will be said to be man made because all houses are built by men.

^^
Good.
Can you mention intelligent things that come up by accident/chance, so that we can take that as a precedent?
Afteral, you said that we learn from experience.

Kay 17: Same with a birdnest, if I see a birdnest in a forest, I'd know by experience that a bird built
it and not a monkey

beautiful, from experience, intelligent things are designed.

And for your information, birds and animal operate on instincts, but still, they are intelligently made and life always comes from life.

Learn from nature.

Kay 17: But the water cycle right before us, works its cyclical magic is the hallmark of Nature.

do you mean they obey the law of nature?
Yes they do.
But the law did not set itself does it? No.

Kay 17: Who makes brains?

you should tell me!
We agreed that bird nest was made by the bird, but the brain? (do you say chance?)

let your conscience judge you that the brain came by chance.

Kay 17: Humans don't manufacture em.(brain)

do human manufacture things having life and blood? No, does that then means that things having life and blood came by chance? Judge for yourself.

Kay 17: They are developed naturally.

what do you mean by nature?

That "nature" that is far more intelligent than you? That "nature" that design your brain? Did you call it blind?

Let your conscience judge you.

Kay 17: And in all species that have them, the brains develop naturally.

what is "nature" my friend?
This nature That design your brain what is it?
Hmmm!

Kay 17: So Nature takes credit for that.

does that make sens to you?
This "nature" and its disasters that are merciless, and your brain can predict it, did It designed your brain?
Na wao!

Kay 17: Modern Mainframe computers are intelligent,

they dont have freewill, no "life", they are programmed.

Btw, did it come by chance? Was it not designed?

Seeing such imediately tells you it has a designer, why not your brain that designed it?

Kay 17: do you think they are persons as a result?

it does not have a mind of its own no freewill.

Kay 17: What if they were designed to produce intelligent effects??

they are not person.

Kay 17: This is irrelevant. What common ppl say, is left to their sentiments.

what evidence do you have to the contrary, that there is no God?

Kay 17: You have no answers?? The truth remains God is a claim of the theist.

what evidence do you have that there is no God?

mazaje: Where did you see me say it leads to there is no god?. . .Learn to read and understand things. . . .

lol. What does atheism means?

You said that you are an atheist, why should i be the one to give you the implication for that?
Or, is your calling yourself an atheist and not knowing the implication having to do with my "not reading and understanding"?

Was the tag you bear "atheism" meant to be a fad for you?

*sigh*

*infants!*

Kay 17: You didn't make an effective reply. My origin or the origin of life doesn't necessarily point to God. Because God is likewise believed to be Life! So why ask me that.

how do you mean? Shade more light to your big claim up there.

Dont you think for a complex entity like you to exist it calls for more than mere chance?

Kay 17: You mentioned a house, good point.

a house is less complex than you. No?

But you are willing to accept the notion of a designer for a house you accidentally meet at the centre of the forest even though you find no person around claiming to be the builder, however, you are unwilling to accept the notion of a designer for you brain and person, why and how? .

Your brain and the house which has the remotest possibility of appearing by chance?

Kay 17: But a squeezed piece of paper despite its roughness and lack of elegant precise design will always be known to be man made.

error!
The chances that a squeezed piece of paper at certain conditions can get deformed and become squeezed due to the forces of nature is very realistic and plausible.

But your brain, coming by chance? Please explain how?

Kay 17: Because we have experience of its causality.

do you also have the experience of the causality of your brain?
^^^ please explain.

Kay 17: We also have experience of structural complexities arising from Nature; mountains, planetary bodies, stars, rivers, lightning storms etc.

your words!

I belief the house you live in came by chance, if not, i smell delusion.

Kay 17: Hence God is not a necessary creator of our complex world.

answer the questions above underwise know that your type is true to the book of Psalm(and you know what it says i suppose?)

Kay 17: God in most definitions is Conscious.

"where ever there is intelligence, there is a mind, Where ever there is a mind there is a person".

Am guessing you are not aware of that ^^^

Kay 17: That purported fact is deemed impossible to prove.

your limitation my friend.

It is called "common sense", i guess it is not that common anyway.(that is why Psalms calls such kind persons FOOLs)

Kay 17: If God created our world, it would be perfect.

with your limitation in knowledge i guess you dont have the full gist.
Well, arrogant "types" dont learn, neither do they ask questions.
they claim to know all.

Kay 17: But since it is not. The valid conclusion is God didn't otherwise his perfection will flow into the world.

befor the advent of christianity and Islam, normal humans without mental problem say there is God and they have no need for the bible or q'uran to teach them about this "ultimate reality".
but you, without a contrary evidence have presumptiousely said "there is no God"
how?

Kay 17: God is a contradiction, given that he is incomprehensible

with your "type", that ^^ should be obvious.

Kay 17: and despite that known, that he is good and yet perpetuates evil. Omnipotent yet falls low to resort to design.

Above of all, God is the claim of the theist. And apart for the lack of a coherent argument.

What has that ^^ to do with the claim that "there is no God" ?

How did you proved that ^ to yourself if not delusion?

plaetton: ^^^^^
Putting our difference in beliefs aside, who does not see and recognise the irrationality of turning a University, a higher place of academic learning, where minds are moulded, the brainthrust of man's curiosity,imaginations, courage and enterprise, the intellectual repository of a nation, being deliberately turned into a vegetable farm for the religious farmers?.

Who does not see a bleak future for an already devastated Africa, when our meagre specks of light are constantly under assault from self-serving merchants of religion?
What can our nation, any nation, hope to ever gain, when one of our universities are boasted to be "the most religious campus on earth" ?
What can be the output?

Who amongst you thinks that is just fine and harmless?

Again, putting aside religious differences, what is Nigeria's main obsession with tokumbo religions?

i may even give it to you, that his action is bad if you want.

You as an individual also sometimes make the wrong call, how does his wrong call (like you wish) and your wrong calls sometimes led to the conclusion that "there is no God"?

plaetton: Now, on the real question of irrationality, let us all who have contributed to this thread be honest to ourselve and sincerely look at this issue for what it truely represents.

https://www.nairaland.com/1164038/pastor-e.a-adeboye-storms-oau

The General Overseer of the Redeemed Christian Church of God(RCCG) storms Obafemi Awolowo University, Ile-Ife this week in an open air crusade.
The programme kicks off this Thursday and continue till Friday. The schedule time is 4pm and 6am respectively for the two days. Venue is Sports Complex. The programme is expected to attract over 10,000 attendee, including staffs, students and nearby visitors from Ife and suburbs.
Considering the fact that the students are writing their second semester examination, will the programme still attracts the expected crowds?
Of course it would. A cross examination of the students revealed their ethusiasm to attend the program, considering the fact that exams for some ends by 6pm Thursday. They still remain adamant to attend the programme.
GREAT IFE SYNDROME; the most religious campus in the world. Not surprised.
THE THEME IS ' THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD' from the book of John 8vs12.
Come and be blessed as the servant of God unraffle the scriptures.
PROUDLY GREAT IFEITES!

>being fouled mouthed is part of the easiest things to do in life.
indulge yourself, Its your call, it tells alot about the individual<

So then, wishing that i will make sense of the saying: "there is no God"

concerning the link above you posted ^^^.

Irrespective of your opinion of what you have posted up there, whether it is right or wrong,

how and why should it be that it is God that should be the one that should take the punch for that action from a freewill agent like you, action taken out of his own volition, irrespective of his claimed?

How does that translate to mean that: "there is no God"?

Wandering!

Ubenedictus: sorry to burst ur bubble, d apostle didnt say "hold on to immorality" he said to tradition and there is no 'baselessness' or immorality there

its like you are using this "tradition" as a screen to practice whatever you wish, is this true?

If not, can you please tell us the tradition in question you are talking about?

Ubenedictus: d tradition d apostle told us to hold, did u forget d bible said so?

you have still not told us the tradition my friend.

Is it the ones the apostles had befor writing the bible or the ones by men after them?

truthislight: whose tradition?
Tradition of men that they warned about or the tradition of the apostle or their way of doing things befor the epistle were written?

How can it be the tradition of men after they have gone when they did say wolves will enter into the congregation after they have gone?

so, please answer the question.

Your failure to do so means your mention of the word "tradition" is a smoke screen" used for other motives.

Zikkyy: Wetin concern kettle and pot for this matter na

your leaders are a product of which society?

The followers are a product of which society.

this should make for a good reading:

https://www.nairaland.com/1162960/irrationality-atheism

Logicboy03: @Truthislight

Go troll somewhere else....you are just looking to argue for argument sake

no time for irrationality.

Deep Sight: As much as I hate to say this, your written English sir, is generally and consistently terrible.

thank you.

atheist:

mazaje: Your point is completely senseless and you KNOW it. . .I was in Nigeria during the christmas season for just two weeks. . .I was labelled the son of satan, looked down upon and treated by badly by some christians just because I dismissed and ridiculed their basis for tithe and pastoral worship(the argument was basically that you do not have to pay tithe to be richest people in the world do not pay tithes, it then evolved into the bible and I mistakenly talked loosely). . .These are people that did not even know I was an atheist. . .They use the bible to justify their delusions. . .In Nigeria today you can be killed for being an atheist and any body that claims my assertion is not true is a LIAR. . .Why do believers in Nigeria treat people badly when they tell them they do not believe in their god and their religion?. . .

If a person that believes in a tooth fairy ostracizes you, disrespects you and refuses to have regard for you because you lack belief in his tooth fairy mythology. . .You will spend a valuable time arguing with him about his tooth fairy mythology. . .That is the same thing the atheist do here. . .To claim other wise to to tell LIES, simple. . .

how does this lead to that: "there is no God"?

plaetton: Good. T
Then let it be understood, especially for my irredeemable detractors on this forum, lol, that when , for example I criticise Adeboye, other MOGs or their NL apostles, I am not criticising christianity as a body, but venting my anger at things that I see as social injustices all done and condoned in the name of christianity and god.

how does this lead to the, "there is no God"?

Imagine!

JeSoul: My dear,

I can guarantee you majority of the christians on this thread agree 100% with the above. We share the same disdain for these wolves - recognizing that they have bastardized a noble concept....but

this does not drive us to 'atheism' (and I frankly cannot see why it would drive anyone). It should simply remind us of the fact that people will do bad things, and people will do good things. The same "God" and "religion" is the driving force behind a lot of good that is done in the world - why not focus on that instead as what it should be?

you my dear, have an independent rational mind capable of rational deductions unlike the others that that Psalms made a conclusived statement concerning.

And you have just proved that Psalms to be a fact.