₦airaland Forum

Kay 17: 1. God is a contradiction.

2. God is incomprehensible

3. God is perfect but an imperfect world

4. God is purported to be omnipotent, hence the use of design is useless to HE who wills anything.

5. God is purposeless and that runs contrary to teleology

For empiricism

1. God is exempted from empirical scrutiny.

Kay 17: 1. We agree on this.

2. Provide a biblical provision that praises free speech. I'd mention the intolerance towards other religions of other nations. And the intolerance towards idol worship in Israel.

3. Good point, Francis Bacon gave us Science, however if science wasn't formalized in the time of Francis Bacon, then it further stresses my point that Science wasn't present as at the time Christianity originated because Christianity was over a thousand year old as at the Bacon's time.

plaetton: You sidestepped my question. Clever.

let me ask again, if with your maturity in christianity, you still cannot reconcile with your fellow muslim, catholic,JW, white garment and trinitarians theists about the nature of god, his will, his plans for mankind, his needs(Money or virtue,belief or deeds, devotion or ritual), are you not in a quagmire?
I see you as someone who is desperately, but genuinely trying to sift through the irrationality and tangled web of religious belief.
to say that another person is foolish for not jumping in to that pool, is , well, akin to irrationality of highest kind.

And thank you for asking.
My main problem with religion, in Nigeria, is the large scale exploitation that goes with it. This is something that even you have acknowledged and criticised very often.
Why should I not mock, and be angry that something that is sold(with fear as the primary currency) as a liberating philosophy, turns around to mentally enslave and materially exploit those for whom it was supposed to liberate?.

My problem with christianity of today is how the rapacious religious elite take soooo much and give absolutely nothing in return to the communities they exploit.
Even the missionaries of old built and ran schools, hospitals,etc. They left the comforts of their home countries to be in involved in the communities where they spread their gospel of Jesus.
I know that even you are highly irritated by the latrine pit quality of the PFN crowd, who see only exploitable resources rather than human souls.

My problem with today's christianity is the complete monetization of all that had hitherto seemed sacred, even to an unbeliever like me.
Its all money money money .
How can you expect non-believers to just look and walk away? why should we not mock on and mock on?

You should spend more time fighting those in your midst who debase you sacred beliefs, and no time at all bashing atheists.

Kay 17: 1. Called such a person a jerk is likewise free speech. However, free speech isn't a Christian value. Galileo persecution is an example.

2. Nobody knows what that means.

3. Christianity in the 2nd century was unaware of science.

Kay 17: That's your OWN opinion actually.

Kay 17: 1. That is part of the right to free speech, one can act as a jerk if he likes, one can be wrong if one wishes to. Most established religions deny ppl free speech cos they believe such ppl are wrong, which is tyranny.

3. To treat the antithesis of a subject the same as the subject is contradictory ridiculous. However atheism on its own can't be a religion.

4. Faith rather than Reason or Science is the basis for JudeoChristian God.

plaetton: You see how irrational you are?.
So Your god is hiding somewhere outside the universe and the says that whoever does not believe in him is a fool, when all he has to do is show up his face ?

We are fools for not believing in what even you and Muslims, Catholics, Jehovah's witness, white garment churches,tithing fraudsters, trinitarians, just to mention a few, cannot even agree upon?

Just watching you argue with every religious sect and denomination on this forum is enough evidence that for you, religion belief is one big quagmire.

And you despise athiests for not jumping in into the quagmire with you?

Kay 17: Relax frosbel, let's take it gradually

First, God didn't write the Bible or that particular biblical provision, David probably did.

Second its not God's statement as a consequence of the above. It is David's

Third it is David's IDEA of God's wishes and preference and his despise of atheists.

Fourth it is of your own belief that David was inspired by God.

So 4 separate steps and implications.

Kay 17: These are valid accusations to how religions like christianity and Islam invade privacy of others, they voluntarily drag criticism towards their religions.

plaetton: C'mon guy.
Your argument is lopsided.
Pastors and TV evangelist go on air every single minute, even as we chat, to castigate all and everyone who does not share their beliefs. There are crusades in every nook and cranny demonizing people for not believing. How many religious sects and cults do you have in the world, all repudiating the beliefs of others?
But when one lonely atheist dares to stand up and write a book, or go in an online forum to repudiate the oppressive and exploitative religious beliefs and the religious fraudsters who benefit from such, then you all begin to cry foul. Shouts of evangelical atheism rent the air.
Why the insecurity?
If a pastor or Tv evangelist can stand up in a podium, face millions of viewers, then make false, ridiculous, and sometimes dangerous claims,why can't he be challanged?
Why does religion feel that it should be impervious to scrutiny and accountability?

frosbel: let's not mince words, an atheist is a FOOL !! God says so and I agree .

plaetton: Ofcourse it would seem nonsense to you.

Go to Nigeria and see the real meaning of irrationality.

Logicboy03: One must be irrational or a liar not to understand that atheists have every right to complain about religion or God due to the constant discrimination they face in the name of God. Just look at the things form last year alone that one has to deny;

plaetton: @stalwert

Talking about irrationality, you will agree with me that there is a big difference between atheists and theists.

I , like most atheist despise religion and mock it. But, with emphasis, we do not hate , despise, discriminate nor despise people because they are religious. For us it would be impossible since we are all sorrounded by religious people in families and friendships. The only exception being those who exploit others and feed fat on religion.

Religious people, on the other hand, automatically hate and despise other who reject their beliefs. Not so?
Again, who is the irrational one?

plaetton: I dont know where you live, but here in Nigeria, the religious beliefs of others affect me, by no fault of mine, in almost every way every single day. As an atheist in Nigeria, its impossible to mind your own business because they simply wont leave you alone. I have a neighbor who has gradually turn his house from from once weekly fellowship to daily fellowship, and then now into a full blown church. You have no idea what I have to put up with.


On this forum, and else where, theist make ridiculous claims and assertions,using their usual currencies of fear and guilt, which I assume, is a way of marketing their products. The anonyimity of this forum allows us to challenge and repudiate their ridiculous claims and assertions.

After a while , it becomes a fun and favourite past time.

Stalwert: ^
I think the most irritating of all is to see atheists spend all their good time arguing with people they claim believe in fairy tales, I mean it does just make sense, I for one cannot spend my valuable time arguing with an adult who believes in tooth fairy, I mean believe what you want, I don't see how it disturbs me, but on the contrary atheists I have seen in forums spend good time refuting what they call "simply fairy tales", that in itself is plain ridiculous indeed unless you guys really have nothings to do most of the time!

lagerwhenindoubt: Can you please explain this phenomenon properly.. How do Pastors make others Rich. and I don't mean church workers

Zikkyy: It is not really in our nature to be creative. We know there are exceptions, but not many of them. and it's not that we can't think (there are more people in the category of peeps blessed with the ability), i believe it's more of laziness.

for creativity to yield the desired result you need a conducive environment. am not so sure we have that.

honeychild: The only people getting rich from the prosperity gospel are the pastorpreneurs who feed fat off the labour and sweat of their gullible sheep.

Reyginus: You mean every vice in the church today is catholic induced? Come clean.

Zikkyy: Lol! if you remove crude oil, church fit overflow. atheists will be visiting redeem camp every first Friday

hisblud: could you repost the site, its not correct. Ok so they stage manage it abi?

true2god: Spend less time on nairaland. Thats my advise for now, no offence.

2scorehigh: Why is it that when some people leave the Catholic Church (maybe because of one problem or another), they make it seem as if their problem was connected to their attending the Catholic Church?

Sometimes, it just makes me to wonder. One of such people who used to receive Holy Communion and even had Confirmation with me, apparently in a bid to recruit me, is now telling me about this miracle working "God of Winners" that I am still so 'blind' to see(and experience) because I am still in the 'dark'.

So my question is this: is Catholic Church really the problem? Or is there really something Catholics are seriously missing?

Ubenedictus: i've gat no probs, its gud to hear frm u! Thank for ur concern! I took d holidays to b wit family, i decided to keep away from the net during that time. Hw u dey?

Ubenedictus: dat is great, and d apostles tell us dat one of d way to knw wat they taught is by tradition! Are u following wat d apostles taught.

Ubenedictus: scripture says "hold on to d tradition..." did u miss dat part in ur bible study? D bible neva claims to b d sole source of doctrine!

deebrain: @Bidam

And yes i will go to Jesus and ask Him if u would also go and ask Him if he spoke english in his time.


U said Jesus just said "Hell". Now lets see something. Matthew 5 vs 22 (in Jesus actual statement which was in Aramaic-Jews language form of combined greek and hebrew)Jesus tells people that anyone that says a word of contempt about his brother will be answerable to the governing body. But anyone that says that his brother is a fool, will be divinely handled is in danger of being sent to "GEHENNA". YOUR ENGLISH LANGUAGE CHANGED THAT WORD TO HELL OR HELL FIRE. Rather than letting somethings go, u guys still play yr childish attitude. Now go and research what i said. Pay for the cost if need be and dont just drop by with a lame verse.

Kay 17: What does this have to do with souls?!

Ubenedictus: u neva disappoint me, ofcux u have started throwing scriptures around.

Degis: Another atheist !. Another Child of perdition. This men are Godless. See your type in the scripture below

Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. (2 Timothy 3:8 KJV)

Pastor Kun: @tru2god
Very daft submission