₦airaland Forum

wiegraf: I still don't understand most of what you say. I'll deal with your folly on the other thread later...

By the way, hope you've been good oga?

folly ke?

Oh!

Warever!

About that thread, feel free to POINT out what you dont understand therein.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]You on the other hand agree that thoughts are non-physical functions of a physical brain. I am sure you can't show me a physical thought because they are by definition non-physical. So why the double standard?[/quote]so then, is the thought the soul?

Is that "thinking ability" the soul that leaves the body?

In that case, see what the bible says:

"His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his "thoughts" do perish." (Psalm 146:4). QED.
...................

Immortal soul is not a bible teaching.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]I think here you are doing what we call panel beating verses of scripture to fit your doctrine. I'll show you what I mean.


I agree that "nepfesh" is used as the Hebrew word to denote that something is living and breathing but then it is also used to denote an inner self(soul), personhood (i.e. pronouns like "him" or "her" a ghost, the mind, death, and as well as to describe abstract mental states like desires of the heart, the will, e.t.c. . Limiting it to one meaning so that you can use it as you like is plain dishonesty.

A good example is Isaiah 10:18 The glory of his forest and of his fruitful land the LORD will destroy, both soul and body, and it will be as when a sick man wastes away.

Here it makes it clear that two separate entities will be destroyed i.e a soul and a body. and here it uses the word "nephesh" to signify soul and for the body it uses another word "basar" (which means flesh) so as to distinguish between the two. Remember that in Numbers 9 it didn't have to use the word "basar" when it was talking about a dead body because a distinguishing wasn't necessary.

If there is no "nephesh" in a "basar", then Isaiah 10 won't make any literal sense. Also if we follow your argument and substitute "nephesh" with "life", then the verse would read that "...God will kill the life and the body". Doesn't also make literary sense.




Again you are doing the same thing you did with the old testament where you pull out a word that can be used in multiple contexts, isolate one of it's possible meanings and then you try to force that meaning upon all your readings in the bible. Interestingly I was hoping that you would investigate their Greek meanings as you did for the Hebrew in the old testament verses but you didn't. If you had you would have come across the word "psuche" which means breath, life, soul, mind, heart, etc. Now when Jesus says do not fear the one that can only kill the "soma" but not the "psuche", I think it is very clear that he is distinguishing between two distinct entities one which can be physically killed and the other which survives physical death.
If we use your translation i.e. "life", we'll have "...Do not fear the person that can kill your body but cannot kill your life...." This does not make sense.
The same applies to the other verses. The same word "psuche" is used.

Now you did something else that I equally find suspect which is claiming that "spirit" means character. That is simply untrue. The Greek word used in those verses was pneuma which is very closely related to psuche and does not mean character but "breath" or "essence of life" and it is often used interchangeably as soul. Paul is clearly not saying what you are trying to force into his mouth. The part in Thess 5 is quite simply a terrible attempt from you to obfuscate.


Actually almost everything there points to it to a soul that survives physical death especially Jesus' statement in Matt 10:28. Not necessarily immortal but definitely surviving physical death.


Lol again here you panelbeat scripture some more with a little quote mining. In Genesis, you are arguing from silence because it doesn't follow that the fact fact that God doesn't talk about man soul in that instance means that man has no soul. Psalms is taken out of context and in Ecclesiastes you purposely left out verse 21 where the preacher suggests the existense of man's man's undying spirit that leaves the body. The verses you quoted really don't help your case because they do not contradict the existence of a soul that survives physical death.

I used to hold this view but the more I have studied the bible, the less true this view appears.[/quote]in the bible the word soul = the living man or a reference to the life that the body have as a result of the ation of the spirit of God(God's power)

When the bible says :

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. " (Matthew 10:28).
.................
It is telling us not to be afraid of dying as servant of God in the hands of humans or satan since they can only destroy the body, but the life that God gave to you is still assured in that God is the only one that can destroy the body and also prevent the person living again in the future.

That is God will restore the lives of "all" the dead back and it is him and only him that can say no to that persons Resurection:

"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. " (John 5:28-29).
............

This future life depends on God and man cannot do Anything about that except God.
as such we should be in fear of God.

Man cannot destroy body and soul.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]A good example is Isaiah 10:18 The glory of his forest and of his fruitful land the LORD will destroy, both soul and body, and it will be as when a sick man wastes away.[/quote]but why are you not understanding what that scripture is saying?

That is a prophesy concerning the destruction of Jerusalem, and we know that a "destruction of soul" (life)by God means a permanent death, a death without resurrection anymore.

Prophetically, God was showing that his destruction of those disobedient Jews is a permanent death and all they have though he will make used of the Assyrian.

It is only God that can destroy the soul permanently(hope of a future life)

can those Assyrians destroy body and soul? No Jesus said.

You should have known this men.

Dont forget unless otherwise, all humans will die with time, but future life is solely dependant on only God. Only him can say no to that.
Peace.

davidylan: Daft again. If the soul was the man then the entire new testament is a complete waste of time. Why bother with a gospel of salvation when the man ceases to exist after death?

na na na and No.

You are limiting God to your limited senses as human. Yes, we human are limited in knowledge.

If God brought the whole univers out of nothing and also brought Adam to life without him existing befor, why is the resurrection of the death an inpossility with God?

Are we bigger than the planet earth that he created out of nothing?

Why is the need to store up treasure in heaven if not to give reason for God to remember us?

Will any bank know that you exist if you dont have an account with them? No.

We give reasons for God to remember us when we die by storing up treasure in heaven, with our name in God's memory or "book of life" he said all he will do is call.

If the soul is already alive in heaven why the need for a resurrection?

davidylan: Believe me, i try. Its frustrating because you thick heads would not get it

insult is not really my strength:

"And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient," (2 Timothy 2:24).

davidylan: Daft. The very essence of the bible - the death and resurrection of Christ - is all about saving the undying soul

so, Jesus did not die?

How did he pay the ransom?

Did the bible lied to us that he spent three days in the grave and that God will not forget him there?
*Smh*

did Adam soul need to exist some where befor Yahweh can bring him back to life? No. He had no soul(life) befor the putting of the spirit by God.
so, Jesus soul does not need to exist somewhere befor God brings him back to life.

davidylan: from eternal destruction in hell.

i see, you also believe in the doctrine of eternal torment, well i dont.

There is a thread by frosbel running right now this 12 of Jan. 2013 with 30 questions concerning the contradiction of eternal torment (hell fire) doctrine, can you kindly go to that thread and answer the questions of the op and educate us please?

Why have you not been seen coming to the hell fire threads?
you would have been been more useful there

davidylan: And i suppose you forgot this part - Gen 2:7?

what does that portion of the bible says? :

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." (Genesis 2:7).
.................

Na wao!

Is it my "lack of college education"?

Did that place not mention two things that form the soul(living man)? = body and spirit? =

"and man became a living soul." (Genesis 2:7).
..............

This is interesting, how did you read it?

Did God put soul into the man? No.

God put his "breath of life" = the spirit of God.

It is this spirit of God that goes back and not the soul. :

"His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." (Psalm 146:4).
..................
Fantastic!

Where is the mention of the "a distinct" soul also leaving the man there?

Is the thought the soul?

If yes, it does perish when the spirit of God leaves.


What am i missing? Ok, college!


You sabi pass God?

i rather find this two statement below rather confusing, amusing, and curious expercially coming from a supposed "christian".

davidylan: Plain idiocy imo. Analogy does not have to be an exact match. "Surely you attended college"

yes "college"

did the apostles of Jesus need to attend "college to understand the scriptures?

When did the attendance of college became a prerequisite for understanding the scriptures?

When has the study of philosophy become a prerequsite for the understanding of the scriptures?

Jesus disciples were fisher men and unlettered. No?

"Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus." (Acts 4:13).
..................

I believe we should accept all you have to say because you "attended college"? No

well, my bible did not tell me that attendance of college is a prerequisite for understanding of the scriptures, am not saying that going to school is bad though, just that you brought it up.

davidylan: Obviously you've not been reading your bible.

can you show us where God put soul in addition to spirit into the man in the bible?

Can you show us where the bible said that the soul leaves the man just as the spirit leaves the man at death?

Why is it so difficult to POINT out where the soul is located in man but you wish we should accept from you that the soul is a distinct entity from the man?

Should this difficulty not be a pointer to the fact that what you are passing to us is possibly an illusion?

davidylan: Feel free to move to the side of the atheists.

is asking that the bible should be a bench mark for christians meaning that the person will pass for atheist?

I dont think so.

I know what platonic philosophy says, and plato did not make use of the bible to arrived at that, why should such a stand be force on the bible?

If i am so wrong and since you are a christian and so right can you leave out your opinion and use the bible to point out what you are teaching us?

Is it also true with you as it is true with many on this thread that the bible is ill qualified or not qualified as an authority to reference this issues?

Please, your answer to the foregoing will help one know exactly the way forward with your postulations. Thank you.
Peace

TroGunn: Very well explained.

i hope they see this beautiful truth of God's word and plans.
Peace

Image123: tislight
you're getting my attention at last, learning to speak for yourself. I'll respond in due time please.

your write up is usually contradictory and unusually long.

Sometimes you dont even address the issues straight forward but go in circles.

I hope that will change.

deebrain: Apart from very rare cases (like in 1st samuel 28 where a witch helped King Saul raise Prophet samuel) Hebrews 9 vs 27 says after death comes judgement. Not immediate judgement-but the one of the last day (if they were christians they would rise in the rapture of the church though)

the case of samuel is a deceit from satan and his Demons.

That is why Yahweh commanded that those witches that satan use to deceive people should be sent out of Israel.

Saul did not see samuel with his eyes but depended on what the witch have to tell him and that is how and where satan play his tricks.

While samuel was alive he refuse to see Saul till he died.

God told him that he has rejected Saul and as such he samuel cannot go to Saul or passed any message to Saul.

Yahweh was no longer talking or having dealing with Saul.

Is it possible tha when Samuel died he decided to disobey God? No.

Will God decide to start dealing with Saul after samuel has died and state using samuel at death? No.

Will Yahweh pass through a spirit medium that he has had chased and killed in Israel to pass a message to a rejected Saul? No.

Will a spirit medium be able to consult Yahweh? No.

Will Yahweh talk to the rejected Saul through a spirit medium? No.

So, from the fore going, is it true that the character that the medium described/brought forth was the dead samuel?
Judge for yourself.

Satan is behind the immortality of the soul doctrine and he and is Demons uses spirit medium to also spread it.

The dead are silent. Psalm 115:17.
Peace

Bidam: After physical death, do individual continue to exist in a state of personal consciousness or not? Pls reply with relevant scriptures.

"The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence." (Psalm 115:17).

Image123: My research using the 1901 American Standard Version gives the word 'hell' thirteen times in its new testament. Eleven times, it is by Jesus, not BarJesus but Jesus the Christ. James mentions once and Peter once.

All the bible including your 1901 kingjames v are translated from manuscript that are over a thousand years older. You can still see the way king james abused the word "hell" in the bible from those old manuscript today.

Using hell to means a place of fire and using it to means grave at other places thereby creating confussion.

If you dont sort out this things and know where fire is suppose to be used and where it is not supposed to be used you will still be going round and round.

Ok, consider, if hell is fire or a place of fire as us in the kingjames bible, why then throw "hell" into the lake of fire? Fire into fire

See:

"And death and "hell" were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." (Revelation 20:14).
....................

The right word there ^^^ is grave since if some one dies he will be put in the grave.

But kingjames bible just keeps on mixing things up there and many other places.

That Rev20:14 is telling us that death and grave were cast into fire, that is destroyed since the next chapter 21 verse 4 says and "death will be no more" and this death will be know more is as a result of it being cast into fire in verse 14 of chap 20.


But the translators of kingjames version owing to their bias or tradition wanted to lead people to think that it is "hell fire" and the people inside that is thrown into fire.
*Smh*

Image123: Jesus remains the chief teacher of hell and He even created it.

No he is not and did not. What you are doing is a misaplication of scriptures.

Image123: He didn't go to this hell when He died, did He?

yes he did, since the meaning of the word hell used at that place is wrong and the place he went has no fire.

Blame tradition and kingjames bible for your confussion.

The right word there should have been grave, sheol, or hedes but certainly not hell.(since hell is not the common grave of mankind but "fire" as used in kingjames bible)

Image123: Mat 5:22 but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire.
Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he is become so, ye make him twofold more a son of hell than yourselves.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell?

all this is you giving yourself planty confusing work.

The truth is a very straight forward thing and not you trying to explain why Jesus did not go to "hell fire".

Ofcouse we know that Jesus was not burnt in fire or tormented, but your use of the word hell is giving you this problem and confusion.

Just know that the correct word there is that Jesus went to grave or sheol or hedes, the resting place of all mankind and waiting to be resurrected.
Peace.

Image123: This is the fun we should be questioning. Why wake/resurrect all the sinners from Adam and then kill them again. Does that make any sense? This is not hollywood/nollywood

you got it wrong, they are not being raise to be killed as you said and as some translation erroneously put "damnation" but rather to "judgment" as Revelation 20:12 rightly puts it and explains what will happened.

so, when the bible says "all" the dead shall come out, you say it does not make sense abi?

"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which
"all"
that are in the graves shall hear his voice and forth" (John 5:28).
...................
Why did that ^^^ not make sense to you?

Are you not aware that the wages of Adamic sin is death?

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:23).
......................

Now, people that died due to Adamic sin have paid the wages of their Adamic sins, so, on given another short at life by God because of the grace from Jesus ransom sacrifice for Adamic sin, Since they have not heard about Jesus and the ransom and as such can not call on him to be seved the are given the opurtunity.

How can they call on some one they have not heard of and neither have they been told about Jesus, as such this fundamental basis for judgement has not been applied to them, how then and on what basis are they being judged and condemned forever?

Is it different strokes for different folks? No.

So, their coming out is to be given the opurtunity to call on Jesus/Yahweh to be seved just as we have the opurtunity today to call or to reject Jesus applied ransom sacrifice since that is the only name that all men must call to get away saved and they have died without the opurtunity to hear about this name, this seed of Abraham by whose means "all the world will seved themselves".

All alive must hear about the christ befor the end will come unless they refused it:

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a "witness" unto all nations; and then shall the end come. " (Matthew 24:14).
.....................

So also those that have died without hearing about it must be given equal opurtunity like we today, Yahweh's perfect sense of justice demands it.

So, the dead on coming out have paid for Adamic sin already as the wages of sin demands, as such they resurrect on a clean slate, Adamic sin is a by gone thing:

"For he that has died is freed from sin." (Romans 6:7).
...................
Some translation uses "acquitted from their sins".

That ^^^^^ fundamental principles is what baptism is fashion after.

So, this resurected ones will be taught/told the way forward from the scrolls that will be open just as people are being taught today which their response serves as judgement to their being seved or not on the last day.

equal justice and opurtunity for all.

Yahweh's sense of Justice is perfect indeed.

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." (Revelation 20:12).
..............

Today, all of mankind are befor God who takes note of every individuals response to the message about the christ, as to survival or to destruction on the last day.

Such is the judgement.
Peace

wiegraf: You said



He earlier said


And of course kindly confirmed it by adding



Now, our hero might not have told us exactly why he thinks Dawkins is *insert insult here, bold and colored for extra effects*, though that as well is disputable as he's given plenty hints at just how mor.onic his thinking is, but he's more or else told us why he thinks op is stoopid; because he thinks anyone who thinks Dawkins intelligent is *insert insult here, bold and colored for extra effects*, at least in the context of this discussion. I'm sure he has other reasons though.

i know, yes i know,
(i really need the greatest faith that i have ever had though) i will survive naira land with my sanity.(laughing in ten languages)

i know, yes i am strong enough(lmho)

Wandering with great wanderment!

.

Bidam: ayam a bible student not a scholar..i'd rather ask questions than answer these questions u posed..lemme make a personal indept study on it..am comin with some questions..hope u don't mind?

well, your recent mental disposition is ok.

As long you are not saying it most be according to the tradition of men instead of the scriptures.

lol, ma sis pp.

Dont mind me o.

I really am considering it.
Cremation i mean.

If you still think i should not let me know..

But really the dead are uncontiouse of nothing the bible says.

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten, also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." (Ecclesiastes 9:6).

"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." (Ecclesiastes 9:5,6,10)
..................

Seriously i dont mind being cremated.

Why do you think i should not?
Peace

plappville: Man was formed from the earth and earth shall man returns, it's literal nothing symbolic there!
Cremation is a pagan act of burying the dead, it cant be supported by the Scripture.
The Old Testament has a few references to the disposal by burning in fire.
Some verses describe executions by Philistines or Babylonians. Burning of bodies and objects in ancient Israel were mostly reserved for idols, criminals or enemies:

Genesis 38:24: Judah initially ordered his pregnant daughter-in-law to be burned to death because she was guilty of prostitution. This action would have caused the death of the woman and her twin fetuses.

Leviticus 20:14: If a man marries both a woman and her mother, then all three "must be burned in the fire".
The passage is ambiguous: it is not known whether they would be stoned to death first, and their bodies burned later.

Leviticus 21:9: If the daughter of a priest becomes a prostitute, then she "must be burned in the fire."

Numbers 16:35: God exterminated Korah and 250 Israelite men with fire because they opposed Moses.

Judges 15:6: The Philistines burned Samson's wife and father-in-law to death.

In the book of Amos 2, God proclaimed a death curse on Moab because he had reduced the bones of the king of Edom to lime through burning.

Amos 2:1 This is what the LORD says: "For three sins of Moab, even for four, I will not turn back [my wrath]. Because he burned, as if to lime, the bones of Edom's king,

did those scriptures say that the dust/ashes of the burnt is not going to the ground?

Infact how do you prevent their ashes from going to the ground if i may ask?

Even if it is acid will the acid not be poured to the ground?

Ok, lets say or assumed that if somebody does not get to the ground he will not be resurrected and there was a desolveed body in an acid Jar and God wish to resurrect that person, cant God break the jar?

Just asking though.

plappville: 2 Chronicles 28:3 He burned sacrifices in the Valley of Ben Hinnom and sacrificed his sons in the fire, following the detestable ways of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites.

The Scriptures are not really talking about burning of the dead body (Cremation). The burning they did was different from the thread.
They did sacrificed thier Children to a god. This provoked the anger of Yahweh.

It shows "cremation of this type" will never be a thing pleasant to God. I do not think any true Christian will do such!

2and go out to the Valley of Ben Hinnom, near the entrance of the Potsherd Gate. There proclaim the words I tell you, 3and say, ‘Hear the word of the Lord, O kings of Judah and people of Jerusalem. This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Listen! I am going to bring a disaster on this place that will make the ears of everyone who hears of it tingle. 4For they have forsaken me and made this a place of foreign gods; they have burned sacrifices in it to gods that neither they nor their fathers nor the kings of Judah ever knew, and they have filled this place with the blood of the innocent. 5They have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind. 6So beware, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when people will no longer call this place Topheth or the Valley of Ben Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter.

Judge Plappvile, please dont sentence me yet.

That place was talking about life persons being thrown into that valley of hinnom for sacrificing reasons.

And later it was used as refused dump.

Later dead bodies were wested there.

"For the children of Judah have done evil in my sight, saith the LORD: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, to pollute it, and they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart." (Jeremiah 7:30,31)

girl king: Do you not understand that scripture? 'unto earth thou shalt return'. No conditions, no exceptions. Every one must return to earth. Every man Christain, pagan or atheist. And as u know every one is buried. Right? So it therefore means he is talking about burials! Somebori punch this guy !!!
Returning to earth there is symbolic. Just like when the bible mentioned a land flowing with milk and honey didn't mean the rivers were made of milk and the fountains of honey .
Guy It dosen't matter if u have your corpse dissolved in acid! U are S̤̥̈̊†̥̥ȋ̝̊̅̄ℓℓ dead and have "returned to the earth". Chikena

yea! You are right, to some people, if a righteouse man is dissolved in acid he will not resurrect again

Plappvile over to you.

plappville: The people that died sudden/unexpected death did not seek to die in such manner, But the victim here told His family to burn him and add His ashes to His parents own.
Its two different cases, What you want is different from what came unexpectedly.

"Earth thou art, and unto earth thou shalt return" (Genesis 3:19)

what difference does it make?

Are we the once that tell God to resurrect us or not to resurrect us?

So, what with the telling or not telling?

braine: The place where bodies were cremated then was known has Gehenna, aka hell.

This is what I could find online:

Gehenna (Greek γέεννα), Gehinnom (Rabbinical Hebrew: גהנום/גהנם ) and Yiddish Gehinnam, are terms derived from a place outside ancient Jerusalem known in the Hebrew Bible as the Valley of the Son of Hinnom; one of the two principal valleys surrounding the Old City.

In the Hebrew Bible, the site was initially where apostate Israelites and followers of various Ba'als and Caananite gods, including Moloch, sacrificed their children by fire (2 Chr. 28:3, 33:6; Jer. 7:31, 19:2-6).

In both Jewish and Christian writing, Gehenna was a destination of the wicked. This is different from the more neutral Sheol/Hades, the abode of the dead, though the King James version of the Bible traditionally translates both with the Anglo-Saxon word Hell.

A tradition commonly reported in older Christian commentaries that in Roman times fires were kept burning and the valley became the garbage dump of the city, where the dead bodies of criminals, and the carcasses of animals were thrown.


You can find more on Wikipedia if you're interested.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna

those things you just said are not correct, try again. Good effort though.
Thank you.

girl king: Are u kidding me? like seriously? Dis answer is soooooo silly. So what about the people that died in plane crashes? They aren't retuning to the dust? " so what if I asked for ℳα ashes to be scatterd on the ground, does that now qualify as "returning to the dust" do u really think God cares how your corpse is buried? Do u? God didn't even say u should "Bury" ur corpse, its just you reading meanings into a simple statement!

Religion has controled ur life from when u were little till your death. And yet, you will S̤̥̈̊†̥̥ȋ̝̊̅̄ℓℓ have it enslave your remains. Sad. Very very sad

according to my sis Plappvile, those "righteouse" that die in plane crash will not be resurrected.

plappville: Ah ok, These churches accept burial in such manner not minding if the deceased was a believer or not. This is strange!

I saw a passage in the OT, it made me believe that the cremation method will not please God.This passgae made it plain that God intended for dead bodies to be buried.
I think the cremation of the bodies of the dead is contradictory to that which was established in the Church from the very beginning.

The burial of the dead should be based on Scripture, due to the belief that the death of a man is a fulfillment of the judgment passed by God onto (Adam):

"Earth thou art, and unto earth thou shalt return" (Genesis 3:19).

is that ^^^ all?

Will the dust hang on the air?

HumbledbYGrace: then again I don't know where cremation comes from...and in the bible we hear a lot about the tombs that will give out the dead wen Jesus Christ comes back so ummmmm!

Changed ma mind I wanna be buried still ME.

where was Adam befor he was brought to life?

What will God take from your remains to enable him create you back?

Why will God need your rotten out none existing dust to be able to bring you back?

Are you bigger then the planet earth that he brought out from nothing?

Ye of little faith.

I thought "with God nothing is impossible"

plappville: The earth no complain for you na plenty of space dey boku!!

Genesis 2:7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being

Dust shall we return...

minus the burnt up fossil fuel what else do you really think will me lost by cremation?

plappville: Yes no salvation after death so why should the church bury an athiest body? The wife is not even a memeber of that church, she is not a serious believer
She doesn't go to church, but she will tell you she believe in God, case close ...

maybe the pay was good.
You know this experience business centers they can smell a good money from miles away.

plappville: I withnessed a friend Husband burial, The man was an athiest, He was sick for many years before He finally gave up.
When He died, His family and wife took His body to the Cathedral for prayers before cremation.
The dead man gave the instruction that His body should be burn.

My surprise is, i didn't know the Church does accept praying for dead atheists, and even doing the cremation too.

Its my first time to see such in the church. So please, if you have anything to share on this, kindly do.
Thank you.

what do you think is wrong with that?

If you put the body in the ground it will still rut to dust but will occupy space for a reasonable period of time, if you burn it it will not occupy space and turn to dust instantly, which is batter?

Ok, i may consent that we will miss the oil that will have form fossil fuel thats all.

aside that what else?

Withing your environment and context you have passed on a shallow sentence based on wrong judgements.

If only you know the details and background/moral compass and the reasons therein that govern such laws.

But then, experience is not a commodity sold in the market.

Its like a prostitute judging some one that says he can only sleep with his wife till he dies, what do you expect?

mazaje: Firstly Jesus promoted some pacifist philosophy that are very BAD, even christians do NOT follow them because they are bad. . .

speak for yourself guy.

I follow that, if only you are able to understand what he said.
Your folly.

mazaje: Luke 6:29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, offer the other cheek also. If someone demands your coat, offer your shirt also.

this is saying that you should not revenge, go the extra length for peace.

As a preacher of the gospel, it is not advisable to revenge when offended.

did you not know that he ask his disciple to leave once they perceive there will be trouble?

Did that mean you should be a foolish slowpoke that will stand put for some one to be slapping you? No

Did you not read the advice that "befor a fight burst forth take your leave"?
arguing from ignorance again.

mazaje: This is pure nonsense and is bad. . .Even christians do NOT practice this at all. . .If I come and slap you and try to take your jacket it either you fight back or call the police on me. . .

lol
still your folly since your mind cannot comprehend the message.

Inner jacket is telling you how much you should be ready to go to for the sake of peace.

If you dont make peace with people how then can you be able to go and preach to them later?

If you dont greet people how then can your go to them to preach to them?

Apostle paul said he does all things for the sake of the the goodnews about the christ.

Ofcouse, this are higher frequencies that human that are shortsighted cannot see the rationality and reasons behind them.

Is it not this shortsighted inherent in human rationality that is responsible for actions that has kept this world the way it is?

But Jesus, with his superior knowledge and perfect understanding of human sychology had given his followers rules that will help them live and preach the gospel that no body can ever have excuse not to listen and follow christ, given clear evidence for the judgement/sentence that the listener or non listener will receive as judgment.

To you it is a game/joke.
Sorry.

mazaje: With regards to divorce, Jesus's advice is plain wrong, why should a divorcee not get married to another person until after his/her divorced spouse dies?

talk for yourself, unless you say that for your lack of self control.
Marriage is meant to last a life time unless adultery he said.

mazaje: No forgiveness in his ruling. . .Who considers this to be a good thing, divorce is sometimes VERY good and saves people's lives. . .To say that divorce should be done ONLY on the basis of fornication is to not know what you are talking about, what if you are married to an unrepentant criminal and a psychopath that beats you regularly?.

I want to belief you dont know the other laws given to christians.

If someone will not reterliate a slap how can he beat up his wife?

Update yourself with other NT principles so that you dont blunder this much next time.

"And the servant of the Lord must not strive;(fight) but be gentle unto all men, qualify to teach, patiently," (2 Timothy 2:24).
.............
Wife slapping is a serious offence, who have you been talking to?

mazaje: .Divorce is very good

Lol, i cant believe you said that.^^^
Are atheist like that ^^?
That does not deserved my comment.

mazaje: in this case, Jesus's declaration here is very bad, many christians do not even abide by it any way because they know its untenable and bad. . .

thats ^^^^ a lie!
I operate on it, who have you been talking ?
*sigh*

mazaje: Threatening people with hellfire for unbelief?.

Where did you get that from? I dont see that in my bible and not worth you generalising.
Looking for cheap point are you?

mazaje: . .What the hell is that, so because people do not believe in your stories the best thing is to threaten them with fire and death?.

Death yes, but fire no.
Aside this preaching warning we will all die anyway, so, the new thing there is a short at everlasting life.

You are free to say no to that ^^ also.

mazaje: For some weird reasons,he even admitted he was violent. . .

again, another wrong short. Did you copy this from somewhere?
Anyway, dont mind me. Jesus was warning that following him will raise hatred even among family members, since some members of the family will object.
He even said that his followers will be killed.
(dont be afraid, he promised to raised you up in the resurrection- John5:28,29)good you asked. Lol.

mazaje: Matthew 10: 34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

same warning like above.

mazaje: He said he came to divide families. . .

Matthew 10:5 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household

Jesus was warning that following him will raise hatred even among family members,

mazaje: Who will consider such a person a good person.

i DO, I DO, I DO.
truthislight does.

mazaje: He asked people to leave their jobs and families to join his little cult group and made them false promises of a second coming

you did not get the whole gist, it was on this condition:

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. " (Matthew 24:14).
............
Just dont miss out. Lol.

mazaje: Good I say is relative, some of the good thing Jesus stood for are considered as bad by many others. . .

no no no, as you can see, you have alot of too many things WRONG.
You need to try harder, and always remember to ask question.
Peace

lol

frosbel: I personally lost interest when I noticed the trend of argument for argument sake !!

he has tuned soul to spirit, imagined!

Bidam: I was reading my bible this morning and i stumbled on a scripture where jesus says and i quote: "but anyone who says you fool will be in danger of the fire of hell"...since you guys are saying hell is equivalent to the grave...pls can u candidly explain why jesus will mention "fire" in a grave? Pls no connectin,lifting and twisting of scriptures cos i get bored easily wen u bring semantics and logic to explanations..why did jesus mention 'FIRE' in mat 5:22?

fire means a death without resurrection. Permanent death.

Fire is used to diferentiate permanent death of no Resurection from the death from Adam that there is a promise of a Resurection for "all"

"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which

"all"

that are in the graves shall hear his voice and come out. " (John 5:28).

Again, "fire" = second death and in secondeath there is no resurrection.

Second death = permanent death, "fire" = permanent death.

So, consistently, fire is used as a symbol of permanent death, rejection, abhorance by God in the bible, since it is him alone that can kill someone permanently with no hope of Resurection.

Remember; "the bible says do not be afraid of him that can kill the body but cannot kill the soul, but be in fear of him that can kill both body and soul in "fire".

So, that permanent destruction is = "fire",
so then, were such destruction is not of Adamic death the bible use "fire" to let you know that it is a permanent removal of whatever it is.

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." (Revelation 20:14).

Meaning that there will be no more death and grave since it is thrown into fire:

"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be

"no more death"

neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." (Revelation 21:4).

"Fire" is used to signify what that has been permanently removed by the almighty God

Image123: can any man stop Jesus, the chief teacher of hell?

that is how you and your likes keep misrepresenting Jesus and his father all the time.

If you dont understand something cant you keep quite and learn instead of spreading conterfeit?

Keep doing the dirty laundery for satan and keep painting Yahweh black and hope he will reward you for it.

Sadistic doctrine from the father of the lies.

there is no doubt who the almighty God is.

Yahweh/Jehovah went to the then world power egypt and defeated their gods to set his people free.

He defeated all the gods of the canannites.

He decreed the rise and fall of the world powers. (this by the way is recorded in the bible)

so many scriptures attest to this.

See:
"Remember the former things of old: for I am Jehovah and there is none else; I am Jehovah and there is none like me," (Isaiah 46:9).

And

"And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them." (Exodus 6:3).

Yahweh/Jehovah = Almighty God.

Ie. all the might(power) belongs to him = almighty.(all might).


The other gods by the way are angels turned Demons, Rebels.

Satan also was a former angel.