₦airaland Forum

True! True!! True!!!

OLAADEGBU:
Shall I then assume that all the Bishops today should be referred to as popes?

the patriachs are still called popes.

OLAADEGBU:
All your points here have been muted in the relevant thread below:

https://www.nairaland.com/2036494/should-catholic-tradition-equal-greater

sorry dear, no thread can mute the fact that the bible clearly bears witness to the transmission of apostolic Tradition, its use and its authority in the christian. Anyone who denies this teaches falsely.

OLAADEGBU:
Who wrote the book of Enoch?

non seqiter.

That is an example that clearly shows that the apostles used extra biblical jewish traditions.

Image123:
That's a ridiculous thing to want to argue of everything said. The point was clearly made.

actually my dear, it isn't ridiculous, i simply wanted to point out that your post was side stepping the question. Italo talked about "contradictory doctrines" and you were busy talking about judicial pronoucements, that shows a clear attempt to sidestep the question.

In your quick rage to point out "fact" about legal pronoucement and run away from the issue of doctrines, you started to post misinformations and lies (i do not mean to call you a liar) by boldly claiming that a pope KILLED galileo, sorry galileo was not killed he died a paceful death inside his own mansion.


Now please inform us how manage you believe it is ok for every Christian to hold and teach contradictory DOCRINES when scriptures clearly says we should hold "one faith" and in another place say that "if an angel teaches a different gospel...let him be anathema"

OLAADEGBU:
Show me where the Bible says the bolded.



The Scriptures are authoritative to the Christian church and not the church traditions. Enough of these diversions, read up on the thread below for more on church traditions.

The oral teaching was accepted by Christians, just as they accepted the written teaching that came to them later. Jesus told his disciples: "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). The Church, in the persons of the apostles, was given the authority to teach by Christ; the Church would be his representative. He commissioned them, saying, "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19).
And how was this to be done? By
preaching, by oral instruction: "So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ" (Rom. 10:17). The Church would always be the living teacher. It is a mistake to limit "Christ’s word" to the written word only or to suggest that all his teachings were reduced to writing. The Bible nowhere supports either notion.

Further, it is clear that the oral teaching of Christ would last until the end of time. "’But the word of the Lord abides for ever.’ That
word is the good news which was
preached to you" (1 Pet. 1:25). Note that the word has been "preached"—that is,
communicated orally. This would endure. It would not be supplanted by a written record like the Bible (supplemented, yes, but not supplanted), and would continue to have its own authority.

This is made clear when the apostle Paul tells Timothy: "[W]hat you have heard from
me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:2). (TRANSMISSION) Here we see the
first few links in the chain of apostolic tradition that has been passed down intact from the apostles to our own day. Paul
instructed Timothy to pass on the oral teachings (traditions) that he had received from the apostle. He was to give these to men who would be able to teach others, thus perpetuating the chain. Paul gave this instruction not long before his death (2 Tim. 4:6–, as a reminder to Timothy of how he
should conduct his ministry.

Paul illustrated what tradition is: "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures. . . .
Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed" (1 Cor. 15:3,11). The apostle praised those who followed Tradition: "I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you" (1 Cor. 11:2).
The first Christians "devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching" (Acts 2:42) long before there was a New Testament. From
the very beginning, the fullness of Christian teaching was found in the Church as the living embodiment of Christ, not in a book.

The teaching Church, with its oral, apostolic tradition, was authoritative. Paul himself gives a quotation from Jesus that was
handed down orally to him: "It is more blessed to give than to receive" (Acts 20:35).
This saying is not recorded in the Gospels and must have been passed on to Paul.
Indeed, even the Gospels themselves are oral tradition which has been written down (Luke 1:1–4). What’s more, Paul does not quote Jesus only. He also quotes from early Christian hymns, as in Ephesians 5:14.

OLAADEGBU:
Jesus, the OT prophets or the apostles didn't refer to traditions but to Scriptures alone.

that means you are ignorant of the bible, here are a few examples of jewish traditions and extra biblical books referenced by the apostles scripture

Book of Enoch (Jude 4,6,13,14–15,[23] 2
Peter 2:4;3:13[23][24])
Epistle to the Laodiceans (Colossians
4:16 "read the epistle from Laodicea"
Life of Adam and Eve (2 Corinthians
11:14 "Satan as an angel of light", 12:2
"Third Heaven"[25]
A lost section of the Assumption of
Moses (Jude 9 "Michael.. body of Moses"
Martyrdom of Isaiah (Hebrews 11:37
"they were sawn in two"

OLAADEGBU:
You don't have to divert attention away from the topic at hand. If you must talk about what a Church is go to the thread below:

https://www.nairaland.com/1984289/what-church

hehehe so you don't want to talk about the fact that you believe in secret occultism.

Image123 pls tell me again who killed galileo?

Hiswordxray:
Well it seems we don't worship the same God. Because my God didn't became God but he had always been God even before the beginning of the beginning.
My God is eternal and doesn't have a beginning. He is a Spirit and cannot be given birth by flesh.
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (John 3:6).
My God was never born because He himself is the "Father of spirits" (Heb 12:9).
My God is a Spirit indwelling in flesh, "For in Him [Jesus] dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;" (Col 2:9)
He indwells in a flesh but He himself is not a flesh but a Spirit. "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” (John 4:24).

I don't know who you are worshipping but we are certainly not worshipping the same God.

hehehe,

u want to dodge, ok let me dance with you, my God has no begining, the exists of himself.


Since you say "your God" is a spirit indwelling in flesh, how did your God get this flesh?

Kay17:
then it makes the Big Ban.g a supernatural event.

that is about right

OLAADEGBU:
Sure, the Church of Christ is invisible to those who are without as we walk by faith and not by sight.

hahahaha, the invisible church must be a secret cult.

The bible clearly talks of the church in ephesus, antioch, jerusalem e.t.c, all of dem visible, how come your own is a secret cult sorry church.

italo:
We all know the purpose of harvest and bazaar.

We all agree that the method is/might be outdated.

But has any of you proposed a better way for your parish to achieve the objectives, and worked towards it?

If you haven't, you may be a part of the problem.

You know a better way, yet you abandon the work for those who don't know...year after year.

Think about it.

italo don nack d nail for the head

striktlymi:
The Church, especially in Nigeria, would do well to scrap the present day Harvest and Bazaar sales.

In my very proud opinion, I believe the present day harvest and bazaar have lost their meaning and relevance.

Some may argue that this is a special period of thanks giving and fund raiser for the Church, I still hold the view that there are better ways to thank God and help the Church grow financially.

The sad reality is that the period of Harvest and Bazaar is a time when the Church (particularly the Nigerian Church) give a subtle permission for wrongdoing.

agreed

honourhim:
@OP, Jesus is the son of God. Even God testified this when Jesus was baptized. This is MU BELOVED SON....

You mean that God was baptized and the same God spoke from heaven to say that he is a beloved son of himself? Na wa for you people o.

Even Jesus commended Peter when he said "thou art the Christ, the son of the living God.

so you dont believe in jn 1:1?

Hiswordxray:
The questions you should ask yourself are:
Who is God?
Is God a man(flesh) or a spirit?
Do you worship a man who became a god or a Spirit who became flesh?

Answer:
If you worship a man that became a god then his mother is Marry.
But if you worship a Spirit who became flesh then your God has no mother.

if this "spirit" became "flesh", then how did the spirit bcome flesh?
The bible give the answer, he was concieved and born by a woman so he had a mother.


this is the most silly attempt at a distinction i have ever heard....


I worship God who took flesh! He became God and man! The person marry gave birth to was both God and man, so yes God had a mother.

tonybosses:
Here is what I meant by it would be misleading...saying God was "born" might send a signal to a child or a baby in Christianity,that d origin that is d event dt brought about God, I event dt happened b4 genesis 1:1, dt brought about the existence of God is the birth tru mary... and u nd I dt wuld b very false to say...

Now sayin Jesus was born by Mary "on earth" would effectively channel d mind of d listener or d reader into d event tru d happened tru which Jesus too flesh as man....you understand?


That is the distinction I want to make....

i clearly understand and i note your distinction, mary is not the "origin" of God, she simply gave birth to him when he came to earth.

And also I would also like to know where it was state that God honoured mary or commanded us to honour her, because I blive as knowledge pops up evriday our approach nd understand of the bible changes.

what do you understand by the word "honour"?

And also I would like you to study d difference btw d "saved" nd d "redeemed"... den u wuld understand dt in terms of grace, glory and. gift of d spirit... I am "higher" dan mary.

hehehe, redemption refers to Christ paying our ransom from sin, death and hell, salvation is simply redemption applied to us individually.

And in both cases you still aren't greater than mary in grace or in glory.

And I can prove it.

i would love to see you try to prove it.

I would love to ask a question, do u blive dt any practise dt isn't biblical practised along syd wt Christianity, takes Christianity from being a way of life to being a RELIGION?

nowhere does the bible even say that so that is untrue.

OLAADEGBU:
The oral tradition is what is referred to and that has been codified in the 66 books of the Bible. Your church tradition that asserts that the creation account in the book of Genesis is an allegory instead of history is not an authority to the body of Christ.

this is another lie spread by your likes....
Nowhere does the bible claim to contain all apostolic Tradition, nowhere did it even claim that the new testament was written to compile the apostolic Tradition. That is a lie plain and simple.


What is found in the bible is that the bible clearly points away from itself, the bible clearly says not everything Jesus said or did were recorded. The bible clearly shows that the apostles prefered to give their teaching orally i.e face to face than thru letters, infact the letter were simply an invention of neccesity which were inspired by the holyspirit. The bible also clearly shows that the apostolic Traditions are to be transmitted, believe and considered authoritative in the Christian church.

The idea that all apostolic tradition is found in the bible is not supported by the bible, and conradicts the bible.

OLAADEGBU:
Your tradition is not an authority to Christians the inspired Scriptures is. Premarital sex would have resulted in execution under the Mosaic laws a fate Virgin Mary would have suffered if she had committed the sin before marriage.

even the bible disagrees with you and convicts you of lying, apostolic Tradition has always been a source of authority in the christian Church that is why the bible say to "hold fast to the tradition you have recieved frome us".

if you do not believe in the authority of apostolic Tradition then u are not even following the bible.

tonybosses:
Mr bene sincerely I dnt understand ur message here... Wht re u trying to say boss?

And I am yet to see in my bible where God "honoured" mary... mayb I av nt read to dt part yet.

my dear i'll be happy to discuss how God honored mary another day on another thread.

My point on this thread is that it is theologically and biblically inaccurate to say that God made man didn't have a mother and it is my position that anyone who denies that God had a mother in time has also rubbish his own salvation.

And mind u I didn't deny, dt God (Jesus) didn't av a mother while on earth.....
Pay close attention to the word "while on earth"

because sayin "God has a mother out right might be misleading, hope u understand?

how can it be misleading for a Chrisian to say that God was born?

I am very happy that you believe that God did have a mother "while on earth", i am happy you believe that a woman did give birth to our Lord and God. Becos u believe this, the thread isn't against you.

Also about the "jumping Jesus, u obviously got dt illustration wrong"

actually, i understood your illustration, your point was that God could have come anyway he liked, but my point is that God didn't just come any how or jump down, God CHOSE from the begining to come thru a woman,
we see this in gen 3:15 and the prophet isaiah clearly says "behold a virgin(or maiden) is with child..."
God didn't just jump down, he instead made a conscious chioce to be born and he chose mary to be his mother.

Let me ask a question... do u knw dt b4 God, u nd mary re d same? I mean none is higher b4 God. Do u live dt?

sorry my dear, in what context are you talking about?

God loves every body equally infinite, so before God me and you and mary are loved the same. I believe that.


But before God this is different levels of grace, there is also different levels of spiritual gifts and different levels of glory, in those levels you, mary and myself are not equals. There are people in higher levels of glory, there are people in higher levels of grace and in the context of glory and grace you are not their equal.

You are all fair my love; there is no flaw in you.
Song 4:7

O Mary Concieved without Original sin!

tonybosses:
Mr bene.... u av spoken well, let's gt done with one part u said sumtn abt "save"

My bible told me dt "wt d mouth confession is made unto salvation"

Dt aside.. nw abt Jesuss avin mother or nt

Or God avin mother.

it is clear that you haven't really been reading your bible.

The only reason you will believe in ur heart and confess with ur mouth and be saved is becos Jesus DIED on the cross for you, if Jesus has no mother, that means he had no human nature he was solely God and couldn't die for u.

If God had no mother then God didn't save u and no matter how much u confess and believe you wont be saved becos you have made the basis of salvation useless.

My brother, it's very very clear in d bible.. Mary was an "instrument" tru which Jesus came to earth... mind u it wasn't as tho, he couldn't av descended frm d sky or happend to b in midst of men.. preaching nd nobodi wuld knw wher e came frm.... bt d nature of tinz nd faith of men wuldnt be influenced at such. at dt point in time.

actually my dear, not once did the bible call mary an "instrument", address her with the words that the bible used.

Secondly, Jesus did jump down from heaven, it was the will of the father that he will be like us in all things but sin. If Jesus jumped down then he wouldn't even qualify as savior becos God already promised that the messiah will be from isreal. So your jumping Jesus does not work that is why the bible tell us that he was born.

So in his widow he came tru mary...

Mary was created by God nd mary gave birth to the same "God" while on earth..

Nw we re looking at "God in 2 perspective"

1) as "God on earth"
2) as "God supernatural"

In case (1) mary gave birth to Jesus, she was the instrument tru which he came in full flesh as man

But dt can't nd shldnt b linked to d origin of God in case (2) as supernatural and creator of all frm time immemorial.
because long tym b4 mary was, God has been.

i never said mary exised before God, infact Jesus created mary becos d bible says "thru him all things were made". But when God came to earth Mary gave birth to him. God became man to save us and mary was his mother.

Anyone who denys that God had a mother in time has denied the incarnation and conseqently his own salvation.

And dt isn't a reason we shld worship (honour) mary, I knw dts where u re driving at....

I was a catholic, I got into the seminary nd got out,i can ask 100 question dt u might not b able to answer.

my dear i didn't ask about your life history and i haven't asked you to honor mary. If the fact that God himself granted her the honor of been his mother is not enough reason to "give honor to whom honor is due" as saint paul say, then i hope luk 1;48 will teach and instruct you on the honor God has given her.

Kay17:
So where do you factor God in the Big ban.g?!

as the first cause

OLAADEGBU:
So you agree with Goshen on his stand on premarital sex? What does your tradition say about Paedophiles ministering to you as priests?

that is why i love apostolic tradition, whenever you are in doubt u recieve clarity.

Both premarital sex and pedophilia are heavy condemn in sacred Tadition. So face your sola scriptura arguement.

Tranglatar:
Don't expect any replies from Christians who don't profess the Catholic faith. Theology is not a favourite of "Protestants". "Marrying" Theology to the Bible is very difficult for them. Why? Most if not all that tried it ended up becoming Catholics (G.K Chesterton, Newman, Scot Hahn). There's this suppressed hidden fear of the end result. But expect a lot from Atheists

this is surprising, because the founders of protesanism took pride in having degrees in theology, luther was very proud of his title and made sure everyone knew he was "doctor", calvin instituted a school of theology in geneva. They all like theology and they all knew that it was important that God had a mother.

Kay17:
But know that you have not explained it yet. So I will be waiting.

i do not dream that you'll understand it.

You may search for redemptive suffering online with ref to the catholic church..

johnydon22:
heheheheheh ... ... Front seat finx.. grabs a bottle of guldar and await comments and arguements...

lol,

but this is a serious matter.

This is a very important question. How are we saved.

I was scrolling through nairaland religious section this morning and I came across the statement, "God Has/Had No Mother". That is a heavy blanket statement and make no mistake it isn't a scarce statement in the religious forum, infact if you type that word into the search engine you will come out with over 10 hits.

So I decided to discuss this very important matter, one of the most important parts of Christian teaching is the incarnation. It simply says that, man sinned against God and became a slave to the devil and no man could rescue himself from this bondage of sin so God himself had to come in with a human nature to put an end to sin and win our redemption and salvation.

Infact it is a basic part of the christian faith that God took human nature and became man, it is important because no other human being can do it for scripture say "no man can pay his own ransom".

So God himself became man and was born of a woman, Jesus Christ the Word incarnate had a mother. He took human form and was born as all men are and because he was in human nature he could walk with us, talk with us, eat and drink with us, even floged some of us, taught us, and more importantly suffered and died for us and is now ressurrected. If God has no mother that means God was not born, he wasn't even human and could die for you, that means he didn't save you, if God has no mother that means God didn't take human nature and your salvation is nonesense.

If God had no mother that there is no redemption, no salvation and no grace, if God have no mother then all Christians are wasting their time because they believe in an illusion.

If Christ had no mother then the Word of God didn't take flesh, he thus couldn't die, couldn't really eat and wasn't ressurrected so your faith is useless. Without the incarnation there is no redemption or salvation.

So I wish to ask my protestant, penticostal and evangelical brethren, If God didn't have a mother and hence didn't take flesh, how are you saved?

The bible clearly say "you will concieve in your womb and bear a son and you shall name him Jesus", that same bible tells us that Jesus is the Word of God and that "in the begining was the Word and the Word was with God and Word was God".

So I ask again if God didnt take flesh in mary's womb and was born by her (thus by definition his mother) so he will save you and I, if that didn't happen, how then were you saved?


I await matured answers.

stardragon:
MouthAction between a married couple, is it a sin? I read in a book were a man of God vehementlt condemed MouthAction, atributing it of been devilish.

methods of pre-intimacy and even postplay that is mutually acceptable to both partners are hardly sinful.

Personally I have never considered fondly the idea of a catholic pope in a muslim prayer service inside a mosque.

I understand his sentiments, the desire to ease violent tension and identify with each human person irrespective of race, color, or even religion, the need for solidarity and promote peace and peaceful co-existence, but i would wish he found a different and better way to do it than going to a mosque.


Come to think of it, he cannot say the arabic prayers the muslims are saying, it would be disrepectful to go to a muslim salat and pray "in Jesus name". So as far as it goes he is probably mute there or he his saying the lord's prayer, i don't think the muslims will be happy about addressing Jesus as God, savior or intercessor in a mosque.

I also pray this deosn't send the wrong message to those who are weak in faith or lend credence to those who would like to believe that all religions are fully true, right and equal.

italo:
Yeah. Gd morning.

your village is a not so far from my maternal home....

Una dey disappoint me wella, na so una dey fear?

i think today na immaculate conception, why is this thread so dry?