₦airaland Forum

Enigma: And further on that Council of Carthage and the claim of "ratification" by Rome

From http://www.bible-researcher.com/carthage.html

Enigma: I don't think you read and understood either me or that Roman Catholic author well.

You fell right into a trap! lol
You claim Jerome had a "canon" or must have had a "canon" before he began to translate (initially suggesting it was from Damasus before acknowledging the forgery I pointed out). Now, you acknowledge that not everything in The Vulgate was done by Jerome.
Of course, scholars tell us that Jerome definitely translated the gospels and some books of the New Testament; but then they say that it is not proven that he translated all the books of the New Testament found in editions of The Vulgate. Look, even at the Council of Trent they struggled to conclude which edition of The Vulgate to accept!
If that is the case where is the "canon" to be found in Jerome's own Vulgate (with its incompleteness suo motu) or in the instructions from Damasus?
Again, according to a Roman Catholic source http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=7470
The last sentence probably needs clarification on whether it refers to all other NT books. And if you want another summary on parts of the Jerome Vulgate, see here (which points to the presence/inclusion of the 'Epistle to the Laodiceans' in 'The Vulgate') http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulgate#Authorship
Well, here is what a Roman Catholic source, the Roman Catholic Encyclopedia, says:

Na so! The same people of Carthage who rejected the authority of Rome and its "popes" on a number of occasions (both before and after their synods setting out their biblical lists) -- including that of "pope" Stephen in c. 256 under Cyprian and that of "pope" Celestine in the early 5th century. The suggestion is that in the spirit of the oneness of the Church in those days they thought "the Church beyond the sea" could be consulted about the selection they had made.

Na so! And does the Roman Catholic Bible/Canon include Psalm 151?

chukwudi44: @ubenedictus

I can't even believe you are having this discussion.

Enigma: Ah cool, Ube' let's play some more!

No, my stance did not change, What I conceded was that my use of "finalised" amounted to a "refinement". However, I stand by the point that the Roman Catholics did not set a canon at a council until the Council of Trent.
And here again are Roman Catholic sources on that point:

From http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=7470



Then from http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03267a.htm

Enigma: OK, so that last post was a tease --- since it referred to Origen on the Old Testament. Here now is one on Origen and the New Testament.

Note again that I am quoting from a Roman Catholic source ---- this time the modern version of the one above.

From http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03274a.htm

Enigma: He he he indeed , ube; because on this one truthislight is actually right!

Meanwhile, we no dey play again? Because I still get plenty yarn!

Let me give you this bit about Origen. Note that I am quoting from a Roman Catholic source!

From http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Catholic_Encyclopedia_%281913%29/Canon_of_the_Old_Testament

Enigma: Let me ask you this: did "Pope Gregory I accept the Apocrypha as "canonical"?

Look, the scholarship reveals that Origen started out with quite a large collection including e.g. the Shepherd of Hermas before eventually paring down what he believed to be canonical to essentially the 27 books of the modern New Testament. You may disagree; but that is what is in the literature.

ooman: sorry

musKeeto: He has issues deeper than the love of God

christemmbassey: THE POPE IS AN ATHEIST? And Catholics claim that they are christians, wonders shall never end, Frosbel has been vindicated.

christemmbassey: THE POPE IS AN ATHEIST? And Catholics claim that they are christians, wonders shall never end, Frosbel has been vindicated.

peteregwu: "That at the name of
Jesus every knee should
bow, of things in heaven,
and things in earth, and
things under the earth" -
Philippians 2:10
Don't tell me that Catholicism
doesn't worship Mary!!! The below
photo says it all. Pope John Paul II
worshipped Our Lady of Fatima
(Mary) and not the Lord Jesus
Christ.

peteregwu: No man is worthy or holy except Jesus(God).
Romans 3:10 KJV. "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"


Without Jesus, we are nothing andbour righteousness is like a filthy rat before Him. Isaiah 64:6 KJV
But we are all as an unclean thing , and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.


Jesus is truely and the only one worthy off all worship an praises. And the only one that has power to forgive sin.



Revelation 4:8 KJV
And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him ; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.



Revelation 4:11 KJV
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

peteregwu: i dont know why you in support of pope, it could b that you are a muslim or catholic. now please read carefully the statement that pope made below,

He then praised the Muslim leaders that
had also come for the meeting, remarking
that they were men who “adore the one,
living, and merciful God and who call upon
Him in prayer.”

hmmmm
“I might not believe in God, but I believe
that Catholics and atheists can work
together just as all of humanity can work
together towards equality and justice when
we put the needs of modern people first
and the arcane doctrine second,” he
concluded.

A 'Pope' who dosn't believe in God?!
Hummmm...!

frosbel: It is .

Racism is institutionalized in some countries though it is not official, but it is a real life experience for countless many.

Same thing with s.exual abuse, hundreds of thousands of girls and boys have been abused by your so called holy fathers and priests , and instead of repenting they cover each others back , which is the sort of thing you find in cults.

How on earth people will go and confess their sins to a p.edophile priest who has yet to repent of his own sins, is a real baffle.

For example p.edophiles get posted to another parish where they carry on with their abuse of unsuspecting victims.

And we have not started talking about elderly priest abusing younger ones, the impregnation of nuns and abortion of babies etc etc.

It is a trend and the whole thing is a stench and filth.

there is nothing Holy about those wicked men.

Enigma: ^^^ Search the forum and you will see that we have long discombobulated the arguments of the Roman Catholic apologists on those matters --- comprehensively.

When I come back from Church (today is Palm Sunday afterall) and if I am in a generous mood, I could find a post that lists various threads on which those matters were sorted.

chukwudi44: @ubenedictus
I am sure you ll really get my point by now

Enigma: The Roman Catholic "popes" asked for the kind of inflammatory statement in that chapter of the Westminster Confession (especially from about the late 4th century though the Reformation and to some extent till now) with their claim of "universal jurisdiction" and headship of the Church.

Unfortunately, many present day Roman Catholics are themselves calling for that attitude ---- including very clearly quite a number on this very thread.

Enigma: Yes the apostles were catholics in the sense of the Westminster Confession. However they were not Roman Catholics.

So yes, we catholics (and NOT Roman Catholics) wrote the Bible.

Ah, sorry but (a) you are ignorant of what I know and (b) you have not read my post carefully and did not understand it. Read it again and pay attention to the words "in other circumstances".

Enigma: And funny enough there will only be slander on their "pope" according to that Westminster Confession if the "pope" claims to be Head of the Church and therefore pit himself against Christ. (Or if the pope's followers so pit him against Christ)

You know what is more interesting? A former Roman Catholic "pope" said pretty much the same thing in other circumstances.

From the words of Gregory I or Gregory the Great/the Dialogist then as simply Bishop of Rome (or according to Roman Catholics, "Pope" Gregory I).

Enigma: Yes indeed! The catholics referred to below!

Westminster Confession of Faith



Hallelujah! Thank God for the catholic Church; thank God for the Church catholic.

Enigma: @ Ubenedictus

Do you agree with the statement below? Or do you think such statements should be corrected and discouraged so as to prevent the spreading of falsehoods?

Enigma: I'm afraid I haven't said anything different even though I agree that my use of "finalised" did make a 'subtle' "refinement".

Yes there was a Rome Council; ah and now you "subtly" acknowledge that the claims about a canon at that council might be false and based on a forgery! Though you want to say it "may" have been a catalog of what happened. lol

As for Jerome's commission, let me quote from a Roman Catholic source: http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=7470

Jerome translated many books ---- including books that he did not consider to be "canonical". That is the whole point! Look, some editions of the Vulgate even include a/the supposed "Epistle to the Laodiceans"!

We will have to agree to disagree. In my view the Roman Catholics are trying to claim and appropriate the African synods which were regional; some of us refuse to be fooled by that.

truthislight: Those lies are meant for blind people.

peteregwu: is like you have not been reading most of the post here. we are disputing about religion. we are condemning what pope is doing, he who claims to be a christian, which also brought about muslims arguing with us. an point of correction, Jesus is the only way an the only way of receiving mercy from God. God cant show mercy to anyone except through His Son. if anyone does jot believ on the son, the person is doomed forever, no matter his charity donation. if the person like, let him feed the whole nation.

John 3:16-18 KJV
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. [18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

peteregwu: is like you have not been reading most of the post here. we are disputing about religion. we are condemning what pope is doing, he who claims to be a christian, which also brought about muslims arguing with us. an point of correction, Jesus is the only way an the only way of receiving mercy from God. God cant show mercy to anyone except through His Son. if anyone does jot believ on the son, the person is doomed forever, no matter his charity donation. if the person like, let him feed the whole nation.

John 3:16-18 KJV
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. [18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

maclatunji: That is what you have been told and never bothered to research independently. We don't 'practice the bible'. Islam is the religion that is ordained for man since Adam was created, the story of Abraham is in the Quran and significantly different from the Bible.

Your ignorance is exposed when you say Isa (Jesus) is Isaac (AS). It was actually Ishmael that was to be sacrificed not Isaac (AS).

frosbel: Another bomb gone off in Kano and we should have dialogue ?

Peace and Violence cannot belong to the team.

To associate Jesus the Prince of Peace with the perpetrators of war and violence is a big NO NO.

"Deliver us (me) from those who do iniquity And save us (me) from men of bloodshed." - Psalm 59:2