₦airaland Forum

[quote author=inspiredbyGOD:.]i am not a protestant (whatever that means). Most times, you need an object before you can feel any connection with God. What is the point of the rosary?[/quote]a counting bead.

[quote author=inspiredbyGOD:.]Defend what exactly? And for the record, I am not a protestant or a pentecostal or whatever fancy name you come up with for anyone who does not subscribe to the catholic doctrine. You kneel down in front of Mary's image to pray and they knelt down in front of their bibles to pray. What is the difference between what you are both doing?[/quote]the thing is, protestants make catholics defend their practice every week on nl. Let penticostals do same.

Kay 17: TRue! BUT the first cause must be be simplest and most basic substance.

simplicity uh?

greatgenius: well it is true.. put differently man is God made man.. and that's a fact.

A creator God is basically the Macrocosm of a soul group or memory complex.. The Ra is a soul group like Yahweh and some beings of this soul group incarnated here during the atlantean human period. They also visited the Egyptians eons ago.

this is very heavy polytheism. One i practically and entirely reject.

greatgenius: well the truth is there is no separate entity called God different from you..

But depending on the level of awareness it might seem as though you are separate from your "creator". let me bring it home so you and others can understand this easy yet complicated concept..

Take your whole being for instance.. is your organ called heart different from you? In fact is any cell of your body different from the entity called " you".. Without the organs or individual cells there is no you as am entity ..likewise without you there is no cells or a conglomerate of them to form an organ..

the truth is b4 we were created, God was, so he does have a distinct existence.

greatgenius: well the point is if you perceive God or the creator -for simplicity, different and separate from you then the creation link will have to continue ad imfinitum..

For instance the creator Gods Yahweh( creator of humans) Lucifer, Ra etc will all have to have a creator and their creator, have a creator, so on ad infinitum.. now this is actually true when viewed from a reality and position of separatism.. but that's an illusion and a distorted point of view because the ultimate reality is that we all ONE and there is no separation..

We are all one and no one being is more powerful than the other.. but all things are possible so those who have a need for a " God", more powerful than them will be provided one by the universe.. it is all for the experience. The reason why we are all here..

at the end of it all u end up like descarte "man is God to man". Where all beings in the universe are equal then it mean u caused urself to exist.
And hey i known not a creator "god" called ra.

kgbd: Hypocrite! Hypocrite! Hypocrite! Hypocrite! Hypocrite! Hypocrite! Hypocrite! A thing given willingly to someone without payment; is called gift. Now tell me how many of you will reject a gift? Sincerely we all know that to have a car in Nigeria today is not a luxury at all. That is a class, there is another class of people with international duties, people that set out thier calender yearly, they cant just do with the dictate of commercial flight. Hence the need to purchase a craft of thier own. These are the same men of God that paint the name of this country in good colour while our politicians drag it in the mud. See its about your vision in life, aim big, work hard towards it and you will be big. Keep that poor man sentiment of yours, and you will be the one to always criticise the successful. Hypocrite!

tune down my dear, u are sounding like a kid who was flogged.

Suprise, suprise, the protestants who were of using "outside the church there is no salvation" on catholics just refused to comment. Interesting.

#yawn#

modicum: On issues like this, I want to thread softly not to be seen to judge nor condemn an anointed. For no one will pass judgement on the anointed and will be guiltless before God. Having said that however, my admonition goes to the men of God. Most of them started well and God lifted them. But what we now see is the danger of fullness. The deceitfulness of riches is derailing most of them. How many jets did they use at the beginning of their Ministry. Yet they saw the raw hands of God and their churches exploded with people who yearned for the truth. If a Pastor could even afford a jet in this impoverished economy, shouldn't the love for the people be enough restraint. Would Jesus do this if he were to be in Nigeria today? Among the hungered, a person drinking common Garri may be lynched for being sumptuous. This is what these men of God should think about. Also, I want to submit that only a very negligible percentage of wealthy men in this present Nigeria will be able to righteously acquire a jet, without a shady underground. Aside the acquisition cost of about N10b, the parking at the port is about N20,000.00 per day, Pilot's salary, maintenance is done daily, not like a car you service 3 monthly, landing tax in foreign countries is exorbitant even for commercial aircraft etc. All these associated cost of maintenance is over a million Naira monthly. So would an hungry man among the congregation not be tempted to pass judgement on the man of God? Paul the Apostle said if my eating meat will make my fellow brother to stumble, I will rather not eat meat. The men of God are making us to stumble by forcing the hungry populace to pass unhealthy comments. I will not. But let everything be done decently and in order.

1000 likes

Oga frosbel it would be interesting to differentiate legit development from deviations. How about that.

Lovethywilbedon: Thats wonderful. I wonder why pure Gospel teaching like this never made it to the front page. If it is a story of a pastor stealing or being hanged or any useless story about one useless musician or actress it will be forwarded to the front page.

the ear of man seems to reject the truth and love the noise. When truth like this is pasted many just read and ignore, when moral failure of others are highlighted you find a host of people interested as though they never sin.

zikclassiq: cardinal Arinze is one of the favourites. Lets hope it turns to reality o

too old, an 85yr old pope retire and a man of 81 is elected, is there sense in that?

channel 190: the said cankerworm have been the power of nigeria, it have taken us far.
It took u.s.a far and religion is no exception

it caused d nigerian civil war and d american civil war, dat is what sectarianism does. So the race-pope adovocate shuld back off

Goshen360: Your words are paralleled. If Jesus had met homosexual just like the woman caught in the very act, would he have done the same thing? As Jesus ate with sinners, will he had eaten with an homosexual if it were to be in our days? Christians have no business hating anyone be it homosexuals or adulterers or lesbians etc. What we do like Christ is NOT to partake in their sins BUT we must love them as people in bring them into God's family. That was the purpose of my statement.



As for you....you just like to dey pinch me these days abi? You know say I promised you when I come 9ja, I must give your wife HOLY KISS in front of you and see wetin you wan do . Anyway, I dey feel your parol beside me sha. Feel free anytime. You be my person still, no matter what. #E-hugs#

@moredendisc,
Thank you brother. No mind our brother Image123. Me and him sabi how we dey feel ourselves. I go soon catch am. Na him season be this to dey give me upper cut . Thank you bro.

E-wrestling, i likey.

JeSoul: Nice piece. I believe the writer is sincere...however there are a few shortcomings with his conclusion.

Let me preface by saying one of the coolest dude I've known was a co-worker of mine who was gay. I learned so much from him personally & professionally and as a christian it went a long long way in challenging and eventually changing my perception of homosexuals. Indeed, they are human beings with the same needs of love, acceptance, community etc as everyone else. We are all equally children of the Creator.

Now to the article:
On the writers' conclusion that biblical directives that are against homosexuality should be 'dismissed' much like those on slavery...uhm very very problematic conclusion for several reasons and for the sake of the argument I'll stick with the New Testament since much of the ceremonial laws that applied to the Jews do not apply to modern-day christians.


Exhibit A:
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Don't you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people-none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God . Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Exhibit B:
1 Timothy 1:8-10
Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine


1. If he is going to say that biblical interpretation of homosexuality should be restricted to the cultural/contexutal times of the Jews/early christians, then you would also have to dismiss every other descriptor in those verses - liars, perjurers, sexually immoral, thieves, adulterers, drunkards etc etc as equally "cultural" and therefore should also be relegated as only applicable in biblical times.

^or else you would be guilty of selective, cherry-picking of 'sins' you want to excuse to fit with the 'modern times'. In this case, you cannot keep only one baby, and throw out the other babies along with the bath water.

2. His equating of homosexuality to slavery is also problematic - he is comparing an apple to a grapefruit - and regardless of what 'modern christians' feel about it, fact remains the bible never expressly condemns slavery - (and it is noteworty the bible also never expressly condemns many other things, think of womens' rights, tyrannical goverments etc). So this should not be a question of "well, modern christians oppose slavery so they shouldn't also oppose homosexuality because times have changed". On slavery, I don't know why the bible doesn't expressly condemn it - there are plenty of theories out there. Perhaps because it was an accepted part of the society? perhaps because the main goal of Christ wasn't to 'free slaves' but rather to save souls? perhaps Jesus started a movement and expected that out of that revolution, we would change the way we do 'business' in society? I'm inclined towards this position because of the way Jesus treated/interacted with the 'sinners, lowlifes, societally rejected' of His time - He ate, walked, talked, and spent time with them.

^all that said, there is definitely room for todays church to 'evolve' in how we treat homosexuals & the topic in general - less hate, more understanding. Homosexuality enjoys (or suffers) the status of a 'pedestal sin' and is truly considered the most heinous of the vices. But in our bid to handle the matter with wisdom & love, we must also stay true to what the bible actually says, that it is a sin - whether in the 1st, 21st or 81st century.

Cheerios.

amen, more love for gays. I totally agree.

JeSoul: Nice piece. I believe the writer is sincere...however there are a few shortcomings with his conclusion.

Let me preface by saying one of the coolest dude I've known was a co-worker of mine who was gay. I learned so much from him personally & professionally and as a christian it went a long long way in challenging and eventually changing my perception of homosexuals. Indeed, they are human beings with the same needs of love, acceptance, community etc as everyone else. We are all equally children of the Creator.

Now to the article:
On the writers' conclusion that biblical directives that are against homosexuality should be 'dismissed' much like those on slavery...uhm very very problematic conclusion for several reasons and for the sake of the argument I'll stick with the New Testament since much of the ceremonial laws that applied to the Jews do not apply to modern-day christians.


Exhibit A:
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Don't you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people-none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God . Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Exhibit B:
1 Timothy 1:8-10
Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine


1. If he is going to say that biblical interpretation of homosexuality should be restricted to the cultural/contexutal times of the Jews/early christians, then you would also have to dismiss every other descriptor in those verses - liars, perjurers, sexually immoral, thieves, adulterers, drunkards etc etc as equally "cultural" and therefore should also be relegated as only applicable in biblical times.

^or else you would be guilty of selective, cherry-picking of 'sins' you want to excuse to fit with the 'modern times'. In this case, you cannot keep only one baby, and throw out the other babies along with the bath water.

2. His equating of homosexuality to slavery is also problematic - he is comparing an apple to a grapefruit - and regardless of what 'modern christians' feel about it, fact remains the bible never expressly condemns slavery - (and it is noteworty the bible also never expressly condemns many other things, think of womens' rights, tyrannical goverments etc). So this should not be a question of "well, modern christians oppose slavery so they shouldn't also oppose homosexuality because times have changed". On slavery, I don't know why the bible doesn't expressly condemn it - there are plenty of theories out there. Perhaps because it was an accepted part of the society? perhaps because the main goal of Christ wasn't to 'free slaves' but rather to save souls? perhaps Jesus started a movement and expected that out of that revolution, we would change the way we do 'business' in society? I'm inclined towards this position because of the way Jesus treated/interacted with the 'sinners, lowlifes, societally rejected' of His time - He ate, walked, talked, and spent time with them.

^all that said, there is definitely room for todays church to 'evolve' in how we treat homosexuals & the topic in general - less hate, more understanding. Homosexuality enjoys (or suffers) the status of a 'pedestal sin' and is truly considered the most heinous of the vices. But in our bid to handle the matter with wisdom & love, we must also stay true to what the bible actually says, that it is a sin - whether in the 1st, 21st or 81st century.

Cheerios.

amen, more love for gays. I totally agree.

Kay 17: Homosexuality is one of the most divisive issues within churches and across our country today. The issue has become, for some, a litmus test on fidelity to God and the scriptures. The divide is not just between the progressives and conservatives. It is also a generational divide, with younger Christians generally seeing this issue differently than older Christians.
I recently delivered the sermon for the National Prayer Service at the presidential inauguration. While in Washington I took my family to the Lincoln Memorial. This iconic structure stands as a reminder of America’s great dream of equality and President Lincoln’s role in the emancipation of America’s slaves and the abolition of slavery in America. The words to Lincoln’s Second Inaugural Address are inscribed on the north wall of the memorial’s interior. In them Lincoln noted that at the center of the conflict over slavery were very different interpretations of the Bible. Lincoln said of the two sides in the war, “Both read the same Bible and pray to the same God, and each invokes His aid against the other.”

Southern preachers and slave owners believed the many references in the Bible permitting and regulating slavery (well over 100 verses), in both the Old and the New Testaments, were clear evidence that the institution was a part of God’s social and moral order. Abolitionist preachers argued in their sermons that the verses related to slavery in the Bible were a reflection of the cultural context and times in which the Bible was written and did not reflect God’s endorsement of slavery. They argued that there were “weightier” scriptures on justice, mercy and love that superseded those on slavery. This was the position that Lincoln himself adopted.

At the center of the divide over homosexuality today is the Bible. Conservatives and progressives “read from the same Bible and pray to the same God, and each invokes His aid against the other.”

There are a handful of Scriptures (five or eight depending upon how one counts) that specifically speak of same-sex intimacy as unacceptable to God. Conservatives or traditionalists see these as reflecting God’s timeless will for human relationships. Progressives look at these same scriptures in much the same way that progressives in the nineteenth century looked at the Bible’s teaching on slavery. They believe that these verses capture the cultural understandings and practices of sexuality in biblical times, but do not reflect God’s will for gay and lesbian people.

In my own life, it was both reading the Bible’s passages on same-sex intimacy in the same light as passages on slavery (and violence and the place of women) and coming to know gay and lesbian people that led me to see this issue differently, particularly children who grew up in my church who loved God and sought to serve Christ. As I listened to their stories I saw that they did not fit the stereotypes I had been taught about gay and lesbian people. The love they shared with others looked very much like the love I share with my wife --a deep friendship and companionship. And their faith was as authentic as that of anyone else in my congregation.

For many Christians today, particularly young adults, the handful of Bible verses related to same sex intimacy seem more like the 100 plus verses on slavery than they do the teachings of Jesus and his great commandments to love God and neighbor. Their gay and lesbian friends are people, just like them, in need of love and community. I believe that in the years ahead an increasing number of Christians, not only progressives, but also conservatives, will read the Bible’s passages regarding homosexuality as all Christians today read the Bible’s passages on slavery. And the sermons preached from America’s pulpits decrying the rights of homosexuals today will sound to future generations much like the pro-slavery sermons sound to us today.

Adam Hamilton is a United Methodist pastor and author of “When Christians Get it Wrong” (Abingdon, 2013)

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/guest-voices/post/on-homosexuality-many-christians-get-the-bible-wrong/2013/02/13/2443d062-761f-11e2-aa12-e6cf1d31106b_blog.html

reading those analogies gat me smiling, i'm suprised the writter think those against gay marriage are like those for slavery.

eddy1977: @ frosbel
Rather than hide behind a computer and play the sterile blame game,you should probably start thinking about starting your church. May be when you are a pastor,then you can show us the portrait of a real bible church.

Blaming darkness doesn't help until you turn the light on

ha! Frosbel doesnt believe in any church, i doubt he will believe in the one he establish.

Kay 17: Don't you guys get it?? If a Creator is always necessary, then the creator himself must be created.

d point is d creation link cannot continue ad infinitum, at a point we must have an uncreated creator, indistructible and pure energy with consciousness and will to create.

channel 190: its time for a black

the papacy isnt about race and sectarianism. This is the cankerworm in Nigeria and u are advocating it internationally.

[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]why is the pope usually italian? what kind of racist religion be this[/quote]is the present pope ben an italian or was the previou joanpaulus italian?
Besides, first and foremost d pope is bishop of rome i'll be suprised if the italian popes are few.

Bleep the haters.

1025: chelsea is planing a legal action against manure for copyright violation. why on earth will ferguson go and watch chelsea tapes and played their game without the consent of chelsea? that is illegal and criminal. such a great player like rooney playing 2 with refeal.
anyways, they got the result they wanted. can somebody now tell the unprofessional professor to join the winning team or continue in his pride and loose out. manure knew what to expect from madrid and the swallowed their pride and did a chelsea by parking keke na pepe. the wenger i know will not learn and he will try to prove a point and buyern will reign goals on them in their revenge mission.

Dear brothers and sisters! In today’s liturgy the Gospel according to Luke presents the account of the calling of the first disciples. This version is original with respect to the other 2 synoptic Gospels, Matthew and Mark (Matthew 4:18-22; Mark 1:16-20). The call, in fact, is preceded by Jesus’ teaching of the crowds and of a miraculous catch of fish, accomplished by the Lord’s will (Luke 5:1-6). While the crowd gathers on the shore of the Lake of Genesaret to listen to Jesus he sees Simon who is discouraged because he had not caught anything all night. First he asks Simon if he might get into the boat to preach to the people a little ways from the shore; then when he finishes preaching he commands him to set out into the lake with his companions and cast out the nets (5:5). Simon obeys and they catch a great quantity of fish. In this way the evangelist makes us see how the first disciples followed Jesus, entrusting themselves to him, basing themselves on his word, which is also accompanied by wondrous signs. Let us observe that before this sign, Simon speaks to Jesus calling him “Master” (5:5), while afterward he calls him “Lord” (5:7). It is the pedagogy of God’s call, which is not much concerned with the qualities of the elect but with their faith, like that of Simon, who says: “At your word I will cast out the nets” (5:5). The image of the catch of fish points to the mission of the Church. St. Augustine comments on this: “Twice the disciples fish at the Lord’s command: once before the passions and once after the resurrection. In both cases we find a figure of the whole Church: the Church as she is now and as she will be after the resurrection of the dead. Now she contains a multitude impossible to count, including the good and the bad together; after the resurrection she will only contain the good” (Sermon 248, 1). Peter’s experience, certainly singular, is also representative of the call of every apostle of the Gospel, who must never be discouraged in proclaiming Christ to all men, to the ends of the earth. But the text of today’s Gospel also brings us to reflect on the vocation to the priesthood and the consecrated. It is the work of God. Man is not the author of his own vocation, but he replies to the divine proposal; and human weakness must not trouble us if God calls. We must have confidence in his strength, which acts precisely in our poverty; we must more and more place our trust in the power of his mercy, which transforms and renews. Dear brothers and sisters, may this Word of God revive in us too and in our Christian communities the courage, the confidence and the zeal to proclaim and witness to the Gospel. Failures and difficulties must not lead to discouragement: we are expected to cast out the nets with faith, the Lord does the rest. Let us trust in the intercession of the Virgin Mary, Queen of the Apostles. Quite aware of her littleness, she responds to the Lord’s call with total trust: “Here I am.” With her maternal aid let us renew our openness to follow Jesus, Master and Lord.

Read the Catechism: Day 124

Part1:The Profession of Faith (26 - 1065)

Section2:The Profession of the Christian Faith (185 - 1065)

Chapter3:I Believe in the Holy Spirit (683 - 1065)

Article9:"I believe in the Holy Catholic Church" (748 - 975)

Paragraph3:The Church is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic (811 - 870)

III. THE CHURCH IS CATHOLIC

The Church and non-Christians

839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People, "the first to hear the Word of God." The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ", "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."

840 And when one considers the future, God's People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

842 The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:

All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city...

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."

844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:

Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.

845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son's Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is "the world reconciled." She is that bark which "in the full sail of the Lord's cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world." According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah's ark, which alone saves from the flood.

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience — those too may achieve eternal salvation.

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."

No Reason to Expect Reason as New Pope Is Elected


ROME, February 15, 2013 (Zenit.org) - Monday's extraordinary announcement of Pope Benedict XVI's resignation was the top news story around the world this week. An interesting feature of many of the commentaries was how they revealed the pre-conceived ideas of those who wrote them.

Benedict XVI's response to the Church's problems was to "insist that only uncompromising adherence to past doctrine could preserve the faith," intoned an editorial in the Washington Post. As if somehow it was not the role of the papacy to faithfully hand on the doctrine of the Church, but rather to conform to the latest fashionable opinions.

The Washington Post, along with a number of others media sources, expressed hope for a "more progressive successor."

The New York Times published a range of commentaries on the news of the resignation, some of them reasonably positive. Not lacking, however, were the negative, and at times simply spiteful opinions.

"He was utterly bereft of charm, tone-deaf and a protector of priests who abused children. He'd been a member of the Hitler Youth. In addition to this woeful résumé, he had no use for women," was the contribution of John P. Shanley, who could not help himself from repeating the stereotyped views of not a few in the media.

For the Los Angeles Times editorial writer, Benedict XVI was "traditionalist" and "authoritarian." Then, however, the author took on a more puzzled tone, by noting how it is those who are liberal who say a pope should resign if he is too old to continue. The editorial had difficulty in explaining how someone was so much a traditionalist could be so progressive.

Liberal

From Britain an editorial in the Guardian newspaper praised the "liberal" social policy of Benedict XVI, but went on to express criticism for a failure to "rethink moral doctrines," which included the familiar laundry list of homosexuality, celibacy, abortion and contraception.

According to the Guardian this failure is behind the decline in Christianity in Europe and North America and the fall in vocations, leading to the importation of clergy from Africa and Asia -- a view which ignores the fact that it is the more "progressive" dioceses and religious congregations that have seen a drastic decline in vocations, while others who do not accept such an approach enjoy a significantly higher number of vocations.

A London Times editorial was more generous in its judgment of Benedict XVI, calling his decision to resign "a noble and selfless decision," and acknowledging his role as an intellectual leader.

Nevertheless a Feb. 13 report from Rome by James Bone was singularly spiteful. He said that the Ash Wednesday ceremony was being transferred to St Peter's Basilica "to accommodate the "princes of the church," who are not usually present."

He somehow ignored the fact that by holding what was Benedict XVI's last major liturgical ceremony in St. Peters a greater number of people could participate and also that by avoiding a journey outside the Vatican it would be easier for the Pope, who had himself just admitted his lack of strength.

The reaction from the German press was not too favorable, at least according to a summary of editorial views published in English by Der Spiegal. The daily Süddeutsche Zeitung referred to Benedict XVI as "the last old-style church patriarch."

Thank God

The front page of the Die Tageszeitung newspaper carried the title of "Thank God," and also had an editorial with the title of "Even Worse than Expected." According to the editorial: "It would be a good thing if Pope Benedict XVI were the last of his kind."

Other reactions, however, were more gracious. In its commentary, the Economist recognized Benedict XVI as a "modernizer" for his attitude to the media, giving interviews and having a Twitter account. While they couldn't help themselves recalling how he had headed the office that was the successor to the Roman Inquisition prior to being elected pope, at the same time they did say he was "less abrasive and more cerebral than his billing suggested" -- perhaps, almost an admission of the fact that the media may just have been mistaken in how they had portrayed him in the first place.

The divergence between media preconception and the principles that guide the Church was highlighted by Brendan O'Neill, writing on the Web site Spiked.

"Today's fashionable allergy to the pope, and to the Catholic Church more broadly, is driven more by a petit-bourgeois disdain for firm commitment to a cause and belief in something bigger than ourselves than it is by a grown-up critique of Catholic theology," he commented.

There were, as well, a number of positive opinions. Writing for Canada's National Post, Father Raymond J. de Souza praised the humility of Benedict XVI, who recognized "that it is the service that the Church needs, not any particular servant."

In the end many of the commentaries and editorials provided more of an insight into the mentality of those writing them, than any kind of reasoned analysis. A situation that is not likely to change when it comes to opinions about whoever will be the next pope.

[quote author=HerexG ],

Well i will take that as your own opinion,[/quote]i no fit shout, d proof is there 4 all to see.

Intarasting[quote author=HerexG ]@ penzino, Obviously you proved that you are child beyond reasonable doubt, i exchange ideas with grown and sound minds.[/quote]thread made to bash other pipo's believes usually ends up bashing pipo. This thread is proof of that.

THE CHURCH IS APOSTOLIC

857 The Church is apostolic because she is founded on the apostles, in three ways:

she was and remains built on "the foundation of the Apostles," the witnesses chosen and sent on mission by Christ himself;
with the help of the Spirit dwelling in her, the Church keeps and hands on the teaching, the "good deposit," the salutary words she has heard from the apostles;
she continues to be taught, sanctified, and guided by the apostles until Christ's return, through their successors in pastoral office: the college of bishops, "assisted by priests, in union with the successor of Peter, the Church's supreme pastor":

You are the eternal Shepherd
who never leaves his flock untended.
Through the apostles
you watch over us and protect us always.
You made them shepherds of the flock
to share in the work of your Son. ...

The Apostles' mission

858 Jesus is the Father's Emissary. From the beginning of his ministry, he "called to him those whom he desired; . ... And he appointed twelve, whom also he named apostles, to be with him, and to be sent out to preach." From then on, they would also be his "emissaries" (Greek apostoloi). In them, Christ continues his own mission: "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." The apostles' ministry is the continuation of his mission; Jesus said to the Twelve: "he who receives you receives me."

859 Jesus unites them to the mission he received from the Father. As "the Son can do nothing of his own accord," but receives everything from the Father who sent him, so those whom Jesus sends can do nothing apart from him, from whom they received both the mandate for their mission and the power to carry it out. Christ's apostles knew that they were called by God as "ministers of a new covenant," "servants of God," "ambassadors for Christ," "servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God."

860 In the office of the apostles there is one aspect that cannot be transmitted: to be the chosen witnesses of the Lord's Resurrection and so the foundation stones of the Church. But their office also has a permanent aspect. Christ promised to remain with them always. The divine mission entrusted by Jesus to them "will continue to the end of time, since the Gospel they handed on is the lasting source of all life for the Church. Therefore, ... the apostles took care to appoint successors."

The bishops — successors of the apostles

861 "In order that the mission entrusted to them might be continued after their death, [the apostles] consigned, by will and testament, as it were, to their immediate collaborators the duty of completing and consolidating the work they had begun, urging them to tend to the whole flock, in which the Holy Spirit had appointed them to shepherd the Church of God. They accordingly designated such men and then made the ruling that likewise on their death other proven men should take over their ministry."

862 "Just as the office which the Lord confided to Peter alone, as first of the apostles, destined to be transmitted to his successors, is a permanent one, so also endures the office, which the apostles received, of shepherding the Church, a charge destined to be exercised without interruption by the sacred order of bishops." Hence the Church teaches that "the bishops have by divine institution taken the place of the apostles as pastors of the Church, in such wise that whoever listens to them is listening to Christ and whoever despises them despises Christ and him who sent Christ."

The apostolate

863 The whole Church is apostolic, in that she remains, through the successors of St. Peter and the other apostles, in communion of faith and life with her origin: and in that she is "sent out" into the whole world. All members of the Church share in this mission, though in various ways. "The Christian vocation is, of its nature, a vocation to the apostolate as well." Indeed, we call an apostolate "every activity of the Mystical Body" that aims "to spread the Kingdom of Christ over all the earth."

864 "Christ, sent by the Father, is the source of the Church's whole apostolate"; thus the fruitfulness of apostolate for ordained ministers as well as for lay people clearly depends on their vital union with Christ. In keeping with their vocations, the demands of the times and the various gifts of the Holy Spirit, the apostolate assumes the most varied forms. But charity, drawn from the Eucharist above all, is always "as it were, the soul of the whole apostolate."

865 The Church is ultimately one, holy, catholic, and apostolic in her deepest and ultimate identity, because it is in her that "the Kingdom of heaven," the "Reign of God," already exists and will be fulfilled at the end of time. The kingdom has come in the person of Christ and grows mysteriously in the hearts of those incorporated into him, until its full eschatological manifestation. Then all those he has redeemed and made "holy and blameless before him in love," will be gathered together as the one People of God, the "Bride of the Lamb," "the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, having the glory of God." For "the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb."

"The Christian faithful are those who, inasmuch as they have been incorporated in Christ through Baptism, have been constituted as the people of God; for this reason, since they have become sharers in Christ's priestly, prophetic, and royal office in their own manner, they are called to exercise the mission which God has entrusted to the Church to fulfill in the world, in accord with the condition proper to each one."

872 "In virtue of their rebirth in Christ there exists among all the Christian faithful a true equality with regard to dignity and the activity whereby all cooperate in the building up of the Body of Christ in accord with each one's own condition and function."

873 The very differences which the Lord has willed to put between the members of his body serve its unity and mission. For "in the Church there is diversity of ministry but unity of mission. To the apostles and their successors Christ has entrusted the office of teaching, sanctifying and governing in his name and by his power. But the laity are made to share in the priestly, prophetical, and kingly office of Christ; they have therefore, in the Church and in the world, their own assignment in the mission of the whole People of God." Finally, "from both groups [hierarchy and laity] there exist Christian faithful who are consecrated to God in their own special manner and serve the salvific mission of the Church through the profession of the evangelical counsels."

I. THE HIERARCHICAL CONSTITUTION OF THE CHURCH

Why the ecclesial ministry?

874 Christ is himself the source of ministry in the Church. He instituted the Church. He gave her authority and mission, orientation and goal:

In order to shepherd the People of God and to increase its numbers without cease, Christ the Lord set up in his Church a variety of offices which aim at the good of the whole body. The holders of office, who are invested with a sacred power, are, in fact, dedicated to promoting the interests of their brethren, so that all who belong to the People of God ... may attain to salvation.

875 "How are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? And how can men preach unless they are sent?" No one — no individual and no community — can proclaim the Gospel to himself: "Faith comes from what is heard." No one can give himself the mandate and the mission to proclaim the Gospel. The one sent by the Lord does not speak and act on his own authority, but by virtue of Christ's authority; not as a member of the community, but speaking to it in the name of Christ. No one can bestow grace on himself; it must be given and offered. This fact presupposes ministers of grace, authorized and empowered by Christ. From him, bishops and priests receive the mission and faculty ("the sacred power" to act in persona Christi Capitis; deacons receive the strength to serve the people of God in the diaconia of liturgy, word and charity, in communion with the bishop and his presbyterate. The ministry in which Christ's emissaries do and give by God's grace what they cannot do and give by their own powers, is called a "sacrament" by the Church's tradition. Indeed, the ministry of the Church is conferred by a special sacrament.

876 Intrinsically linked to the sacramental nature of ecclesial ministry is its character as service. Entirely dependent on Christ who gives mission and authority, ministers are truly "slaves of Christ," in the image of him who freely took "the form of a slave" for us. Because the word and grace of which they are ministers are not their own, but are given to them by Christ for the sake of others, they must freely become the slaves of all.

877 Likewise, it belongs to the sacramental nature of ecclesial ministry that it have a collegial character. In fact, from the beginning of his ministry, the Lord Jesus instituted the Twelve as "the seeds of the new Israel and the beginning of the sacred hierarchy." Chosen together, they were also sent out together, and their fraternal unity would be at the service of the fraternal communion of all the faithful: they would reflect and witness to the communion of the divine persons. For this reason every bishop exercises his ministry from within the episcopal college, in communion with the bishop of Rome, the successor of St. Peter and head of the college. So also priests exercise their ministry from within the presbyterium of the diocese, under the direction of their bishop.

878 Finally, it belongs to the sacramental nature of ecclesial ministry that it have a personal character. Although Christ's ministers act in communion with one another, they also always act in a personal way. Each one is called personally: "You, follow me" in order to be a personal witness within the common mission, to bear personal responsibility before him who gives the mission, acting "in his person" and for other persons: "I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit ..."; "I absolve you . ..."

879 Sacramental ministry in the Church, then, is a service exercised in the name of Christ. It has a personal character and a collegial form. This is evidenced by the bonds between the episcopal college and its head, the successor of St. Peter, and in the relationship between the bishop's pastoral responsibility for his particular church and the common solicitude of the episcopal college for the universal Church.

[quote author=inspiredbyGOD:.]What sort of double standard hypocrisy is this?
You do the same thing with images of Mary and Jesus. Heck you even pray to Mary and make her out as the mediator between man and God. Just live and let live, you are no better than them.[/quote]and i remember correctly that you protestants insult catholics every week on nl, on the charge of idolatry. Atleast d catholic pray to a human being not an object.

Anyigala: The truth is finally coming out.


http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/09/hitlers-pope-pius-xii-holocaust

oga anyi pls modify d thread topic and invite logicboy to the thread.