₦airaland Forum

viruz007: Ogbeni I posted twice... 1 focused on the Op's initial posts and another showing the dark moments of the church... yet I ask again? y did d church hinder the translation of the bible from Latin Vulgate?

truthislight: Saw this on another thread, though it is a well known fact, but i decided to post it here for any that wish to refresh his brain on what had happened in the middle ages.

https://www.nairaland.com/1104124/problem-catholism-an-introspection/10#14272365

it is also available on a search of the inquisition.

truthislight: If i bother with you, i will derail this thread.

I advised you to seek for another thread.

Can you show evidence for this statement:



And again, which manuscript are you talking about?

* The original greek manuscript of the 1ce?

* The translated latin manuscript of the 4/5th ce?

* The later latin manuscripts ?

Dont forget that the bible was by force kept in latin for over 1000years, and any effort to translate was met with death as a penalty.

Can you then please show the manuscript that contain Hebrews 1:6 as "worship"?
And, does the word have only one conotation if any?

Meanwhile, (thinking aloud)

* Why was it refused to translate the latin manuscript to other language (manuscript) when other older manuscript was still around? *

WAS THERE AN AGENDER? !!

truthislight: I see, you people always lied when you dont know about a thing.

Well, i repeat, i dont know and such cannot and should not be important to me Expercialy since the one that receives exclusive worship in the bible is Yahweh.

viruz007: Ogbeni answer me or move on to the next thread.. we r here discussing matters dat affect our faith and I had to speak that way because we r in an era where information is easily available including the bible but you think you can just come and spew out what you think is right? Prove to me praying to mary is in the bible and I'll pray to her else..... Next thread plz.

GiantParrot: @ UBenedictus
Thanks a lot for your answers. They were reasonable. I really appreciate that your responses were devoid of the childish terms I usually observe on nairaland. You were just calm in making your points known. But I am really tired of arguing. From what I see here (nairaland), the arguments are more likely to cause more estrangement than conviction. I realize that the really important thing is one's relationship with God. It is my prayer that He draws me nearer to Himself and reveals more of His wisdom to me. I also pray that He does the same for you.
Again, I appreciate your composure and maturity at stating your position.

Lovethywilbedon: I am LOVETHYWILBEDON and I APPROVE THE CONTENT OF THE ABOVE QOUTED COMMENT, most especialy on the work of the LAY APOSTOLATE. HONESTLY, If you listen to Ewtn Satelite Radio or Watch Ewtn Satelite television you will see where some lay men and women are more effective than many of our Priests in terms of Evangelism and Catholic Apologetics. These are the fruits of the Vatican II Council documents on the New Evangelisation. It is true that All Catholics, Priests, Religious and Laity are called to evangelise but the descernment of our vocation to priesthood, religious life or lay apostolate demands alot of prayer just as you mentioned. After the The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and The Silent Adoration of Jesus in The Most Holy Eucharist, another great prayer that I have discovered that helps alot in discernment is the Meditative Praying of the Holy Rosary. Ofcause I know you and other faithful Catholics are aware of this Great Prayer but many catholics take this Prayer for granted. I personaly have recived from God, two Great Miraculous answers to my prayer through this prayer. Unfortunately this prayer is the Most Criticised Prayer, just because the name of Mary, "The BELOVED MOTHER OF JESUS" was mentioned in it. As for the work you mentioned, Great amount of Scriptural with ADVANCED Catechetical work is still needed to be done on Nigerian Catholics so the woun't fall pray to these "tithe seeking", "New age" Penticostals. Honestly, when I see your works of Catholic Apologetics and that of Udenedictus with that of those you mentioned, not excluding Holyvirgin, I am encouraged that God is raising fierce Sergents that will replace the Great Generals of the Church Militant on earth in the nearest future. To you and to all faithful Catholics on Nairaland I say Grátia Dómini nostri Iesu Christi, et Cáritas Dei, et Communicátio Sancti Spíritus sit cum Ómnibus vobis.

viruz007: Ogbeni answer me or move on to the next thread.. we r here discussing matters dat affect our faith and I had to speak that way because we r in an era where information is easily available including the bible but you think you can just come and spew out what you think is right? Prove to me praying to mary is in the bible and I'll pray to her else..... Next thread plz.

truthislight: hope you have not pass the post above directed at you.

You dont seem to have what to say it seems.

ijawkid: The bolded is so right.............the question ube and enigma are asking are so jejune............smh!!!......
How does the NWT using words like obeiscance,bowing down and adore in replacement of the word ""worship"" for the sake of unambiguity now be the bane of this discussion??..........
Smh!!!!....

ijawkid: Don't you know the answer to your question??........

truthislight: there is a comprehension problem some where.

I know i have made myself explicitly clear.

ijawkid: What would the answer do for you??............eh??.........

Zikkyy: How do you know it was subject to all sorts of mistakes? Do you have alternative approach to compiling the bible? Maybe you have info am not aware of. Abeg if you have reason why I should not be using the bible, tell me.

viruz007: Someone mentioned earlier that there are many ways to get to Jesus and one of them is through Mary. R u people so shallow or narrow minded to spew out this particular line?

I hate arguing or insulting people when it comes to discussions about God and the word but you people have take it one step too far. John 14:6 says " Jesus answered, I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me."

John also writes in 1 John 2:1, " My dear children i write to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the father in our defense- Jesus Christ, the righteous one. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only ours but also for the sins of the whole world"

I have forgotten the passage that says whatever you ask in my name shall be given to you. Mary's name was never mentioned please. You want your prayers answered dial JESUS straight up and he'll go present them before God. I have always prayed in Jesus name and have always had results so i stand tio be corrected that Mary is a way to Jesus because your inferring total crap. She was a mortal, she was married and had children shikena.

my 2 cents #NuffSaid

GiantParrot: Fair enough. Still, I have to point out that Galileo’s trial, the inquisitions and the crusades were unbecoming of the church because they wrongfully portrayed Christianity in an intolerant light. They are suggestive of a very superficial knowledge of scripture and a fundamental flaw in reasoning about certain responsibilities of the church among a significant number of church leaders at the time. Such undertakings are even counterproductive for the church’s mission because those non-believers who got killed forever lost the opportunity to accept the salvation offered by Jesus Christ. Salvation cannot be achieved by forcing confessions on people and threatening them with death or deprivation if they do not believe. Common sense dictates that this should promote dishonest claims to salvation for fear of persecution and oppression. I wonder how they got to ignore Ephesians 2:8-10. There has to be a sincere decision by a sinner to come to salvation. I am not aware of any mandate given to the church by God to persecute those who do not believe. On the contrary, Jesus Christ said that it is the church that would be persecuted. How could they have so easily disregarded Jesus’ command regarding peoples’ refusal to accept Christian teaching?
Mark 6:11: And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, it shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the Day of Judgment, than for that city.

Acts 13:50-51: But the Jews stirred up the devout and honourable women, and the chief men of the city, and raised persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them out of their coasts. But they shook off the dust of their feet against them, and came unto Iconium.

In John 16:1-3, He spoke to His disciples about persecution:
John 16:1-3: These things have I spoken unto you, that you should not be offended. They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time will come, that whosoever kills you will think that he does God a service. And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor Me.

And on Christian warfare:

2 Corinthians 10:3-4: For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds.

In view of the quotations above, it is difficult to resist the temptation to take a good look at the church and some of the “heretics”, and then determine which party fits which profile.

achina boy: with my little knowledge,don`t think he will ever resign for any reason unless death

chigo4u: http://chigotoday..com/2013/02/first-black-pope-cardinals-peter.html

pash4naija: I'm not Catholic but I just read this from Linda Ikeji's blog. It's interesting and at the same time makes one wonder about the end times. Some of the comments too are interesting to read. This is the article:


Source: http://lindaikeji..ca/2013/02/malachys-prophecies-last-10-popes.html

The Pope announced his resignation today. For those of you interested in stuff like this...read and be amazed! :-)
*Benedict XVI is the 111th pope in the prophecy of Saint Malachy. Petrus Romanus will be 112th**
Born in 1094 A.D. at Armagh, Ireland, Saint Malachy is also known as: Maolmhaodhog ua Morgair; Maol Maedoc; and Malachy O'Morgair. He died as he himself predicted, on November 2, 1148 at Clairvaux, France. Malachy was canonized the first Irish Saint in the Catholic Church by Pope Clement III in 1190 A.D.
In 1139 AD, a man named St. Malachy was given a prophetic vision. He saw all of the Catholic Popes that would come in the future. He wrote down a short description of each one. Throughout history, each one has been accurate. He foresaw 112 Popes until Jesus returned and that # 111 would see the beginning of the tribulation. The current Pope is # 111. Here's a link to the story and a reprint of the story as well:
It gets more interesting...:-)



Papal Prophecies - The End of Religion

Saint Malachy (1094 - November 2, 1148) was known as great prophet. While in Rome in 1139 he received a vision showing him all the Popes from his day to the end of time. According to these prophecies, only two Popes remaining after John Paul II.

St. Malachy was reported to have possessed the powers of levitation, healing, and clairvoyance. While on his way to the Vatican to assume the post of papal legate for Ireland, he fell into trance and saw a line of papal reigns stretching from the successor to Innocent II and extending through centuries to the last of the line, identified as Peter of Rome. Malachy assigned short descriptions in Latin to each pope when he committed his vision to paper. These mottoes usually refer to a family name, birthplace, coat-of-arms, or office held before election to the papacy. Some of the phrases are multiple prophecies, written with ingenious word play.

Through the centuries, his prophecies have turned out to be amazingly accurate, even prophesying the date of his death. In all, 112 popes and their characteristics are listed from 1143 to the alleged end of the world, or perhaps religion as we know it, when truth is inlay revealed about human creation and destiny.

Saint Malachy's final words were: "Rome, the seat of the Vatican, will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people."

Prophecy of the Popes is a list of 112 short phrases in Latin. They purport to describe each of the Roman Catholic popes (along with a few anti-popes), beginning with Pope Celestine II (elected in 1143) and concluding with a pope described in the prophecy as "Peter the Roman", whose pontificate will end in the destruction of the city of Rome.

Malachy's Prophecies - The Last 10 Popes
1. The Burning Fire. PIUS X. 1903-1914. This Pope showed a burning passion for spiritual renewal in the Church.

2. Religion Laid Waste. BENEDICT XV. 1914-1922. During this Pope's reign saw Communism move into Russia where religious life was laid waste, and World War I with the death of millions of Christians who were carnage in Flanders Field and elsewhere.

3. Unshaken Faith. PIUS XI. 1922-1939. This Pope faced tremendous pressure from fascist and sinister powers in Germany and Italy, but he was an outspoken critic of Communism and Fascism which enraged Hitler.

4. An Angelic Shepherd. PIUS XII. 1939-1958. This Pope had an affinity for the spiritual world and received visions which have not been made public. Peter Bander says Pius XII "has emerged as one of the great Popes of all time," and he "was in the truest sense of the word an Angelic Pastor to the flock..."

5. Pastor and Mariner. JOHN XXIII. 1958-1963. John was a pastor to the world, much beloved, and the Patriarch of Venice. The connection to "mariner" is thus remarkable.

6. Flower of Flowers. PAUL VI. 1963-1978. Paul's coat-of-arms depicts three fleurs-de-lis, corresponding to Malachay's prophecy. His coat of arms included three fleurs-de-lis (iris blossoms).

7. Of the Half Moon. JOHN PAUL I. 1978-1978. John Paul I was elected Pope on August 26, 1978, when there was a half moon. He reigned 33 days, that is, about one month, when he died, although many think he was murdered. He was the 109th Pope - is "De Medietate Lunae" (Of the Half Moon). The corresponding pope was John Paul I (1978-78), who was born in the diocese of Belluno (beautiful moon) and was baptized Albino Luciani (white light). He became pope on August 26, 1978, when the moon appeared exactly half full. It was in its waning phase. He died the following month, soon after an eclipse of the moon.

8. The Labor of the Son. JOHN PAUL II. 1978-2005. Pope John Paul II was the most traveled Pope in history. He circled the globe numerous times, preaching to huge audiences everywhere he went. He survived an assassination attempt. He has written a book which has enjoyed a large circulation. Like the sun which never ceases to labor and provides light daily, this Pope has been incessant. He was born on May 18, 1920. On that date in the morning there was a near total eclipse of the sun over Europe. Prophecy - The 110th Pope is "De Labore Solis" (Of the Solar Eclipse, or, From the Toil of the Sun). Like the sun he came out of the East (Poland).

9. The Glory of the Olive. The Order of St. Benedict has said this Pope will come from their order. It is interesting that Jesus gave his apocalyptic prophecy about the end of time from the Mount of Olives. This Pope will reign during the beginning of the tribulation Jesus spoke of. The 111th prophesy is "Gloria Olivae" (The Glory of the Olive). The Order of Saint Benedict has claimed that this pope will come from their ranks. Saint Benedict himself prophesied that before the end of the world his Order, known also as the Olivetans, will triumphantly lead the Catholic Church in its fight against evil.

10. PETER THE ROMAN - This final Pope will likely be Satan, taking the form of a man named Peter who will gain a worldwide allegiance and adoration. He will be the final antichrist which prophecy students have long foretold. If it were possible, even the very elect would be deceived. The 112th prophesy states: "In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church there will reign Petrus Romanus, who will feed his flock amid many tribulations; after which the seven-hilled city will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people. The End."

So what do you guys think?

pash4naija: I'm not Catholic but I just read this from Linda Ikeji's blog. It's interesting and at the same time makes one wonder about the end times. Some of the comments too are interesting to read. This is the article:


Source: http://lindaikeji..ca/2013/02/malachys-prophecies-last-10-popes.html

[color=#006600]The Pope announced his resignation today. For those of you interested in stuff like this...read and be amazed! :-)
*Benedict XVI is the 111th pope in the prophecy of Saint Malachy. Petrus Romanus will be 112th**
Born in 1094 A.D. at Armagh, Ireland, Saint Malachy is also known as: Maolmhaodhog ua Morgair; Maol Maedoc; and Malachy O'Morgair. He died as he himself predicted, on November 2, 1148 at Clairvaux, France. Malachy was canonized the first Irish Saint in the Catholic Church by Pope Clement III in 1190 A.D.
In 1139 AD, a man named St. Malachy was given a prophetic vision. He saw all of the Catholic Popes that would come in the future. He wrote down a short description of each one. Throughout history, each one has been accurate. He foresaw 112 Popes until Jesus returned and that # 111 would see the beginning of the tribulation. The current Pope is # 111. Here's a link to the story and a reprint of the story as well:
It gets more interesting...:-)



Papal Prophecies - The End of Religion

Saint Malachy (1094 - November 2, 1148) was known as great prophet. While in Rome in 1139 he received a vision showing him all the Popes from his day to the end of time. According to these prophecies, only two Popes remaining after John Paul II.

St. Malachy was reported to have possessed the powers of levitation, healing, and clairvoyance. While on his way to the Vatican to assume the post of papal legate for Ireland, he fell into trance and saw a line of papal reigns stretching from the successor to Innocent II and extending through centuries to the last of the line, identified as Peter of Rome. Malachy assigned short descriptions in Latin to each pope when he committed his vision to paper. These mottoes usually refer to a family name, birthplace, coat-of-arms, or office held before election to the papacy. Some of the phrases are multiple prophecies, written with ingenious word play.

Through the centuries, his prophecies have turned out to be amazingly accurate, even prophesying the date of his death. In all, 112 popes and their characteristics are listed from 1143 to the alleged end of the world, or perhaps religion as we know it, when truth is inlay revealed about human creation and destiny.

Saint Malachy's final words were: "Rome, the seat of the Vatican, will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people."

Prophecy of the Popes is a list of 112 short phrases in Latin. They purport to describe each of the Roman Catholic popes (along with a few anti-popes), beginning with Pope Celestine II (elected in 1143) and concluding with a pope described in the prophecy as "Peter the Roman", whose pontificate will end in the destruction of the city of Rome.

Malachy's Prophecies - The Last 10 Popes
1. The Burning Fire. PIUS X. 1903-1914. This Pope showed a burning passion for spiritual renewal in the Church.

2. Religion Laid Waste. BENEDICT XV. 1914-1922. During this Pope's reign saw Communism move into Russia where religious life was laid waste, and World War I with the death of millions of Christians who were carnage in Flanders Field and elsewhere.

3. Unshaken Faith. PIUS XI. 1922-1939. This Pope faced tremendous pressure from fascist and sinister powers in Germany and Italy, but he was an outspoken critic of Communism and Fascism which enraged Hitler.

4. An Angelic Shepherd. PIUS XII. 1939-1958. This Pope had an affinity for the spiritual world and received visions which have not been made public. Peter Bander says Pius XII "has emerged as one of the great Popes of all time," and he "was in the truest sense of the word an Angelic Pastor to the flock..."

5. Pastor and Mariner. JOHN XXIII. 1958-1963. John was a pastor to the world, much beloved, and the Patriarch of Venice. The connection to "mariner" is thus remarkable.

truthislight: My friend, what you are concern about is not important, the important thing is God and not human.

The concern and our worries is not that humans should be "infelible", not when christ even said that no one is Good except God.

The most important thing is to ensure that, "through all men be found a liar, let God be found true".

God's words does not contradict itself and render people confused.

"pride goes befor a fall"

we continue to learn, if you found out you are on the wrong or error, please make amends for the "truth".

(1 Timothy 2:3-4).
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:3-4).
..................

^^^

ensure you are on the part of life, even though that will call for drastic changes. = TRUTH.

Contradictions are not truth.

"One has to keep on asking, keep on seeking"

not to set your own righteousness.

truthislight: My friend, what you are concern about is not important, the important thing is God and not human.

The concern and our worries is not that humans should be "infelible", not when christ even said that no one is Good except God.

The most important thing is to ensure that, "through all men be found a liar, let God be found true".

God's words does not contradict itself and render people confused.

"pride goes befor a fall"

we continue to learn, if you found out you are on the wrong or error, please make amends for the "truth".

(1 Timothy 2:3-4).
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:3-4).
..................

^^^

ensure you are on the part of life, even though that will call for drastic changes. = TRUTH.

Contradictions are not truth.

"One has to keep on asking, keep on seeking"

not to set your own righteousness.

truthislight: My friend, what you are concern about is not important, the important thing is God and not human.

The concern and our worries is not that humans should be "infelible", not when christ even said that no one is Good except God.

The most important thing is to ensure that, "through all men be found a liar, let God be found true".

God's words does not contradict itself and render people confused.

"pride goes befor a fall"

we continue to learn, if you found out you are on the wrong or error, please make amends for the "truth".

(1 Timothy 2:3-4).
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:3-4).
..................

^^^

ensure you are on the part of life, even though that will call for drastic changes. = TRUTH.

Contradictions are not truth.

"One has to keep on asking, keep on seeking"

not to set your own righteousness.

Boomark: Why would you dig a grave and ask my friend to enter? Infact you don vex me.

Zikkyy: No o! it means the scientific approach used by the bishop is acceptable in the absence of information that shows otherwise.



We know.

Enigma: ^^^ See how Christians who are not Roman catholics understand that expression and why Lutherans, Evangelicals, Anglicans and even some Pentecostals can all say they believe/belong in "one, holy, catholic, apostolic, church."

https://www.nairaland.com/1032312/scandal-church#11979108

Enigma: Ube bros

See the answer to your question in what I said recently here: https://www.nairaland.com/1179270/pastor-god-should-listen-christians/2#14169726

plaetton: From all the above, we can infer that papal resignations have only occured during periods of schisms or extra-ordinary circumstances. Age and Ailing health has never been one of them.
So despite this official reason, I have no doubts, that in a short while, we shall see real reasons for this forced abdication of Pope Benedict.