₦airaland Forum

Affalatus: Persecution is a sign of repentance as a christian cannot be at peace with Satan. Even Christ asked his disciples to rejoice at being persecuted. Peter was crucified upside down. John was killed in boiling oil. They were true disciples. Yes?

John was not killed in a boiling oil, yes he was put in boiling oil but escaped, John died a peacefull death as bishop of ephesus, the was probaby over 100yrs wen he died.

Brodafred: Actually Salvation is free and there is nothing you can do to atain it or obtain it, all you need is faith and believe in on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved , Jesus only is the saviour.

my friend this is just d first step, what u described above is justification, what comes next is santification and it takes more that faith at times it include suffering.

Well my mum did something like this some years ago, she gave away her heavy jewry including her makeup stuff and those very costly feminine stuff, the thing is nobody asked her to do so. It had a significance for her, till date she doesnt use those stuff. It is hard to explain. but i would b concerned if there was a church that had a problem with gold

sadeiyare: I have been seeing,talking and interacting with angels physically and spiritually, since 1999.Their ministry have been documented in every book of the Bible.I wonder why christains have not taking this seriously,knowing that we all have one. My question is this, have you ever seen or sensed an angel,physically, in your dreams and otherwise ? And if yes, what have you done to increase this Heavenly assistance and fellowship ?

TALKING ABOUT ANGELS. Hebrews.1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

wow! Angels! I talk to them, but i cant say i have physically seen one.

Delafruita: every single version of that verse makes it clear that yeshwa and yahweh are different entities.if after reading it,you felt it was in favour of trinity,i have to question your comprehension skills

it shows that d fada and son are distinct, but it also say that yeshua is 'true God' if u didnt notice the i question ur comprehension skills. It makes me remember d nicea creed "i believe in 1 lord Jesus christ d only bgoten son of God, born of d fad b4 all ages, God from God, light from light, true God from true God

[quote author=frosbel][/quote]if frosbel isnt here spining her fairytales no else will. Wow! Ur hatred for d catholic church is so great that u dont mind spread nonesense just to discredit her. Weldone, i would love 2 see ur face on judgement day when those u call harlot and prostitue make their way to God's kingdom.
An academia without a open mind is lost, his intellect will rust.
Peace

nedostic: Sometimes, I wonder if there is any difference between the Roman Catholic Church and the present day Protestant Churches.

Frankly,I do not see any major difference both in doctrines and outlook.

Just three main points to buttress my assertion.

The Roman Catholic Church operates a Bazzar system(highest bidder option) in the name of harvest,the daughter church-protestant church(most and not all)hoard miracles and sell all spiritual materials like apron,prayer book,anointing oil,etc to their members.

The Roman Catholic Church hinges all authorities of the church on the POPE,its more of a taboo by any priest within the Roman Catholic Church to speak against the actions of the POPE even when the POPE errs being a mortal like every one of us. As a matter of fact, most catholics belive more in what the POPE says compared to what the word of God(Bible) says.

The same applies to most protestant churches, most members believe more in what their pastors/prophets/bishops say rather than what the Bible says.Even the protestant flocks would tell anyone who disagrees with what their supposedly 'spiritual' memtors taught them, 'touch not my annointed'. Suffice to say that both the POPE and most protestant church leaders are more or less idolized and hero-worshipped by their members.

Also, there is a noticeable seggregation between the poor and the rich in any one of the two churches. The rich are virtually the elders and deacons in any one of the two churches. You need to be financially empowered to have a voice in these two church systems.

Kindly share your thoughts on the smilarities between the Roman Catholic Church and the present day protestant church.

u are most certainly joking, wen i saw ur thread i thought it had something positive, i checked and all i see is some atheist game. Well done.

[quote author=rich_john]Hmmm..........thanks plaetton we learn everyday, grew up in a strong baptist family, the bible we read today is a council of nicea edited bible, no thanks to the catholic church, the da vinci message is getting clearer, this is sign we are edging towards the end of time after millenia of falsehood and deceit.

@Ubenedictus thanks a lot we arent fools any longer hang on to ur falsehood and deciet [/quote]hahahahaha, i cant help laughing as u display ur ignorance, the canon of d bible wasnt set at nicea, infact d nicea fathers didnt discuss about d bible. Go back to ur history class and be careful, before u accuse someone of deciet and falsehood make sure u arent lying. I think next time u shuld take it easy before u mention 'da vinci' the guy wasnt mr know all. He is probably more ignorant in some issues than urself, da vinci first son.

obadiah777: THE COMFORTER IS THE WORDS OF GOD. THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST. THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST MAKES YOU ALIVE ( JOHN 6 VS 63 ). THE COMFORTER IS THE WORDS IN THE BIBLE. THE WORDS IN THE BIBLE IS THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST. THE WORDS IN THE BIBLE IS CHRIST ( REVELATION 19 VS 13 ). THE COMFORTER IS THE BIBLE.

are u freking kidding me?

truthislight: did you really red through and did not find out where that said that Jesus is the last Adam?

So, the bible must suit your opinion?

did u read what u wrote? The bible says Jesus is d 2nd adam, d bible didnt say adam and Jesus are equal, stop making this useless arguement.

frosbel:


I hope you are not having nightmares about frosbel and the pope

thanks for d concern, no nightmares, i was commenting on ur thread 'd leader of d xxxxx church visit lebanon' unfortunately my post jumped here, i deleted it immediately but it seems u saw it b4 i deleted it, u would notice i wrote 'wrong post'.

k2039: I will assume I didnt see this.(very close)

That's true

i have explained that the presence of perfect grace in mary, proves d catholic teaching on her state as immaculate, i hope u have no problem with that?

Are u freking kidding me? What is d argument u are making? U got to be joking. It seems u are simply looking for anything to say.

k2039: you have still not shown me who the saints are,a precise identity.

sorry my friend d bible didnt say u must know d saints identity before he can interceed for u. I could ask all d angels and saints to join me in prayers. What is d significance of d question? It doesnt make sense.

Everthing created by God are meant to worship and praise God,afterall that's what the angels do in heaven.
Prayer of praise is to worship God,it is different from intercession.

what a joke... To ask for intercession is to ask a fellow broda whether on earth or in heaven to prayer for u or join u in prayers. On earth we usually tell our fellow xtian 'he me/join me in thanking God for xxxx', it means u are asking intercession in a prayer of thanksgiving. The psalm i reference clearly shows d psalmist asking d angel to join him in a prayer of praise, whether u like it or not that is intercession.

Either if at all you pray to saint and you show me the basis in Revelation,you should be able to prove their identity,

this is really stupid,

so you know who you are praying through.

when d psalmist asked d angel to join in a prayer of praise he didnt call their names.

As far as am concern am a saint and my prayer could be what is refered to as prayers that are in the "golden bowls full of incense"

beautiful, and yet d elders in heaven interceed for d saints on earth. The question isnt whether or not u are a saint, the question is whether or not those in heaven can interceed for those on earth. I have show that truly those in heaven can and do interceed for the saints on earth, do u have a problem with that?

k2039: Without repentance there is no reason for baptism. An infant has no understanding of repentance.
So he doesnt have the capapbility to make the decision and fulfill his baptism.

I guess you will tell,that's why they have a godfather or godmother to lead them into salvation as soon as they dem it fit(kid gets maatured)
The order has change,repentance before baptism not baptism before repentance.
Still at that you cant change someone who isn't willing or desiring to change.

SALVATION IS A DECISION EVERYONE HAS TO MAKE FOR HIMSELF,the parents could loead them to finding Christ,I still beleive it's the kid's decision that matters

actually my friend, children have nothing to repent from, so your argument flies out of the window. Jesus said 'dont prevent d children from coming to me, for such as these is the kingdom of heaven' and peter goes on to confirm the d promise of salvation also blong to d children. To be saved is not abt d will of man, it is of God.
Peace

plaetton: Disprove of what? The letter of the scriptures is staring you in the face : It did not say" the disciple whom Jesus loved above others", no, it ephatically said "The disciple whom Jesus loved". Did that imply that Jesus did not love the other disciples, or that Jesus had a different kind of love for this particular disciple?



Here is a quote from father Iranaeus:

He says “ ...but from the fortieth and fiftieth year a man begins to decline towards old age, which our Lord possessed while He still fulfilled the office of a Teacher, even as the Gospel and all the elders testify; those who were conversant in Asia with John, the disciple of the Lord, [affirming] that John conveyed to them that information. And he remained among them up to the times of Trajan. Some of them, moreover, saw not only John, but the other apostles also, and heard the very same account from them, and bear testimony as to the [validity of] the statement. Whom then should we rather believe? Whether such men as these, or Ptolemæus, who never saw the apostles, and who never even in his dreams attained to the slightest trace of an apostle?”


Gnosticism was condemned collectively and individually? Who were the individuals and who were the collective that had the devine perogative to choose what was truth and what was falsehood?

read act 15, u will se those with d divine perogative and how it is exercised.

And by your logic, all the teachings of Jesus should also be condemned as heresy because the Senhadrin , the council of Jewish elders,declared him as such because they did not like what he preached. Do you agree?

this is ur idea, i didnt imply that. Some doctrines in xtianity are considered heresy in judaism, gnosticism is considered heresy in catholic christianity.

That the church is bulwark of truth is laughable.
Which church and which truth?
The roman catholic church and the roman catholic truth?
The orhtodox church and the orthodox truth?
The coptic church and the coptic truth?
The calavnist church and the calvanist truth?
The anglican church and the anglican truth?
The white garment church and the white garment truth?
The Tb Joshua truth and the Tb Joshua truth?
And on and on and on........

gud question, one u may want to find an answer for urself.

Ohhhh Pls.
Spare me the laughter.

really, provide me with the name of d work u quoted, it chapter and verse. As for d other long stories u told i would rather ignore them, today those topic dont interest me.

Delafruita: give me the proof that jesus christ existed

u arent ready for a discussion. U cant answer my question by bringing up a totally irrelevant subject. If the writtings of history and scripture doesnt satisfy u, i doubt i can make a meaningful discussion with u.

Rich4god: Are you surprised... They always try to dodge away from fact/truth... My own question to enigma is still unanswered and he only turned back to accuse me of lying.

lol, my protestant brothers have ran away from the discussion. Since they have decided to run away i think it would be wise to conclude that with so much proof the catholics here have done well to prove the primacy of d roman see, the work of d catholic church in the writting, compilation, canonisation and preservation of scripture. Let he who have eyes see, let him wu have ears hear.
Peace

frosbel: and who said I accept the JW teaching of 144,000 people in heaven , lol.

Let us not be presumptuous in our statements Pal.

in you original post u didnt say anything abt d 144000, i also didnt see anytin abt it in d first page, i checked it wasnt there.
At the rate u are going frosbel, ur hatred for d catholic church, ur ideas etc sooner or later u will b a JW. U probably havent noticed but ur belief has just one outcome: Jw. Congrats on ur new faith.

k2039: Ubenedictus,take your time o.lol

I agree with certain Roman Catholic doctrine but not all.
I agree with the following;
God Became Man: The Incarnation
Christ Died for Us: The Redemption
Christ Rose From the Dead: The Resurrection
Christ Returned to His Father: The Ascension
Trinity
Just to name a few.

lol, i though u probably had nothing with catholics. I had a friend wu said he believe Jesu d son of God was born but he didnt believe in d 'incarnation'. He said d birth of Jesus was biblical but d word 'incarnation' isnt in d bible. One of frosbel proof against d trinity is that it is believed by catholics. For most protestant anytin catholic is false. So yeah im surprised, im even more surprised becos most protestants agree with calvin and luther in subject involving freewill. No joke.

plaetton: I dont care how you rationalise it,if Jesus had 12 disciples and one among them is repeatedly refered to as the disciple whom Jesus loved, then something appears to be wrong with that picture. Which is probably why the name of the disciple is deliberately omitted.

And again, what type of love are we talking about here? Was it the love your neighbor as yourself type of love, or was it the type of love a parent has for his child, or was it romantic or fleshy type of love?

To rationalise that Jesus has the right to love, not like, one out of 12 disciples, would cast jesus as having the same human proclivities as all of us, and therefore, seem unbecoming of god in flesh.

it seems ur aim is to disprove scriptures, suite urself.

plaetton: I always laugh when you guys say something is a heresy. Pls define heresy for us.
Condemned by whom? Another laugh.
And who were the church fathers?
Father Eusebius, for example?
The grandfather of pius fraud?
Or was it Father Iraneus, who wrote that Jesus lived to the ripe old age of 53?
Where these men not mere humans with their own faulty beliefs, prejudices and agendas?

How does the fact that something is disliked and condemned by your so-called church fathers prove that the thing in question was faulty, false or evil?
Is that a case of being both the prosecutor and the judge?

give me proof where he said jesus died at 53. Gnosticism was condemn both collectively and individually, both council and father. The church d pillar and bulwark of truth judged those topics

k2039: LOL,I didnt mention a church o,I wrote 'a certain church'.

Come to think of it the phrase "The disciple whom Jesus loved" only appears in Johns acccount(Epistle of St John).Just wondering why Matthew,Mark and Luke didnt write it in theirs.

u didnt name but u implied. Only d catholic and orthodox church blive in intercession and d last time i checked i could find any orthodox on nairaland. Do u doubt the testimony of John?

frosbel: You did not quite get it, or maybe you did.

My point is , that the righteous will inhabit a new heaven and new earth with new bodies , immortal bodies for that matter, while the wicked will be cut off from the earth forever.

ur idea is a JW teaching, the only difference is that the JW believes 144000 people will go to heaven and d rest wil b on earth, but instead u blive no one will go to heaven. Wow! Frosbel!

k2039: "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9.
All things are possible for God. (Matt. 19:26)

From the two verses above it must be possible for all men to be saved
But you have to understand that God has made man in His own image. (Gen. 1:27) Man has a rational mind, a heart to love with, and a free will with which to choose. So it is possible for man to choose to reject God's offer of saving grace.
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, NOR OF THE WILL OF THE FLESH, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, but of God." John 1:12-13

"I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life that you may live." Deuteronomy 30: 19.
God does not pre determine anyone to hell,He respects the free will that He has given us,we choose if we are going to hell or heaven.(even the devil was not pre determined to hell,he rebelled against God and he chose his path)



God does not EXEMPT us from the consequences of our own choices.


[s]how about the reality of the fact that humans are also doomed to hell[/s]
I am not doom for hell

wow! Atleast i totally agree with this. Have you been reading summa theologica or what? What u posted above is catholic teaching, attested to by scriptures, im pretty sure those wu adhere to calvinism on this topic wont like this

stepo707: Matt 5:44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you.

It happens that satan happens to be our enemy.So guys what do you think?

i know a xtian wu said he didnt hate satan, satan is d instrument God uses to test us. In essence satan has his purpose. Just dont follow him and praying for him is useless.

plaetton: There is no evidence that the disciple John ever wrote the gospel of John. The Gospels were written several generations after the facts by unknown scribes.

The real question remains: Why would or should Jesus have had a special love for one of his disciples? Does that not strike one as rather odd ,given that Jesus was thought to be God incarnate, that he would do something as grossly human as to have a special love for one individual among the multitude of humans whom he came to earth to save?.

i think u are forget that Jesus was also human, there is nting wrong with having likenes 4 someone.

Wow!

991: Mary Magdalene was one of Jesus' close companions. Jesus also cared especially for her by, for instance in one occasion, driving out 7 demons from her Luke 8:2.

what is d point? He cast demons from many people.

Anyway, according to widely accepted early Christians' doctrines, Jesus kissed Mary Magdalene. He apparently had strong feelings toward her.
"Interest in Mary Magdalene grew following the discovery of the Nag Hammadi Gnostic Gospels in 1945. The Gospel of Philip explicitly said Jesus kissed Mary Magdalene in the mouth, making the disciples jealous of her. Other gospels in the Nag Hammadi texts also spoke of the intimate relationship between her and Jesus, even referring to her as his "beloved." her importance was shown by her presence in major events of Jesus' life. She anointed his feet with a costly perfume, an act the disciples tried to stop but which Jesus allowed. Luke chapter 8, tells us that Mary was one of Jesus' followers and traveled with him.
Have you heard about the:
the gospel of philip
the gospel of mary magdaline
the gospel of thomas
the acts of peter, etc
None of these gospels was included in the Bible because the content didn't conform to Christian doctrine, and they're referred to as apocryphal. One of the documents discovered at Nag Hammadi in southern egypt is the Gospel of Philip, in which Mary Magdalene is a key figure. It has been the cause of one of the most controversial claims ever made about her.

hahaha! U defeated ur argument the moment u agreed that the text were gnostic, for those wu dont know, gnosticism was a heresy that existed in the early church, the heresy was condemned and the writtings werent by any of d apostles or immediate disciple. That fact and the heretical nature of d said text was more that enough reason why d church fathers excluded those book.

k2039: Thank God,if not a certain church I know would probably have exalted the person to the office of mediator and intercessor(afterall he is the one Christ Loved most)

hahaha k2039, i think d church fathers agree on this. The disciple was john. And my friend not only john is considered an intercessor in the catholic church, even peter, paul, andrew...even me, im considered an intercessor. Wow! Gud to hear frm u again

frosbel: What is this NONSENSE called 'spiritual father or mother' Do you read your bible or just follow your pastor ?

Also who told you to pay tithes , where is it in the bible.

Sheeple, arghhh

when u see frosbel's post u must know. 'Spiritual father' wow didnt u see that paul called timothy is son? Infact i recalled him saying "i fathered u". Or u neva read ur bible reach there?

Wrong post

Ihedinobi: I see. I agree with that. I find it funny that atheists who do not know the Lord take it upon themselves to educate His children on His Character.

Anyhow, I agree that we should avoid strife. I don't know if we can see how the principle that governed Jesus's cleansing of the Temple and His "unprovoked" "rude" utterances against the Sanhedrin relates to that attitude though.

The Bible teaches us that God is both severe and gentle. I think that His children are evidenced by similarity of behavior to Him. This is one reason the Scriptures ask, "who shall bring a charge against God's elect?" Anyone who accuses a child of God accuses God Himself. Within the Family, accusations are unknown. Rather is there discernment, judgment, the separating between that which is Christ and that which is not and the strengthening of the former to the detriment of the latter.

Outside the Family, everything is already condemned and the witness of the Christian is to declare that this is so, but that in Christ God has provided a way of escape. I think it is easy then to see why someone who would not accept God's Right to Rule would accuse such preachers of arrogance.

you guy are diverting the thread, this thread is not abt atheist, it is about theist especially xtian, the canon of scripture, the primacy of rome and the catholic church. You guy have refused to answer d questions u were asked instead u are talking about atheist.