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IslamRe: Why Qur'an Alone? 2.0 by usermane(op):
A few noteworthy points about #1 hadith

Al Qurtubi, Ibn Hajar, Ibn Uthaymeen, Ibn Malik and Ibn Qayyin share their interpretation of the phrase; "force them to the narrowest path of the road". You can find their exegesis here; Click. Scroll down the page to the bold blue font heading; NOW DOES NARROWING THE JEWS AND CHRISTIAN INDICATE INTOLERANCE OF ISLAM?

I wont get into how irrational their interpretations are. But it is interesting to see that none of them except Ibn Qayyin, relate this hadith to war situation or Banu Qurayza. Meaning that many scholars saw the hadith applicable even under general situations.

In Ibn Khathir's tafsir on Quran 4:89, this hadith is mentioned as proof against saying salaam to the people of the Book. And thus, Ibn Khathir does not limit the application of the hadith to only war enemies among the people of the Book.


I will just have to stop here and proceed to #2 hadith, but be rest assured, the rabbit hole goes very deep.
IslamRe: Why Qur'an Alone? 2.0 by usermane(op): 3:06am On Jul 05, 2018
Empiree:
Oh no, dont get it wrong. I only cited Banu Qurayza due to its famous incident relating to the Jews. I didnt mean it is decisive in this case. There are of course series of wars and bickering between muslims and Jews. and pagan arabs.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you. I meant to tackle your argument and other arguments for this hadith, so I lumped them in together. I know you didn't point to Banu Qurayza, I didn't intend to misquote you.

Before i can even effectively reply you on this, you first all need to recognise islamic history in relation with Quran. Without this we may be wasting our time here. Yourself just cited a bit of history while ignoring facts on ground. As for your personal experience recently (maybe), that is a flimsy analysis here.
Hey man, go easy on me. Will you? It's too early. "Islamic history in relation to Qur'an?" How is that relevant to our discussion on this hadith? Or you mean "Islamic history in relation to hadith?" Hadith may have history but unless an historical event fit the hadith, it is untenable for me as a critic. I shouldn't have to state this.

Oh, and the only facts I have ignored are untenable facts, that don't add up.

Look, I'm not entering an endless squabble with you over this, I have many other hadith to cover. You're offended by me, by my critique of your beliefs? Create your own thread, article or publication exposing the irrationality of Qur'an alone, the evil it has and can cause, and how accepting hadith will better everyone, everything. Because, I'm tired of debating you and your likes on toxic hadith that continue to cause oppression and mischief for over 1400 years.
IslamRe: Why Qur'an Alone? 2.0 by usermane(op): 1:23pm On Jul 03, 2018
Peace.

Now that we have seen our #1 hadith, let's see the popular argument for it.

The 9th century Persian Islamic scholar Abu Isa Muḥammad ibn Isa as-Sulami ad-Darir al-Bughi at-Tirmidhi (824 – 892 CE) placed this Hadith in the category of “The Book on military expeditions”

The 14/15th century Shafi’I scholar Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani (1372 – 1449 CE) placed this Hadith in the category of “The Book On Jihad”:

It is quite clear that among classical scholars of Islam, they deemed this Hadith report to be in relation to war only.
This is not tenable, since Imam Muslim placed it in Book of Greetings. Many cases, hadith applications are not limited by the book in hadith they occur.

The medieval sunni scholar Imam Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya (1292 – 1350 CE) states that the Hadith was uttered in relation to when the Muslims “went out to Banu Quraizah”
Apparently, the inclusion of Christians in this hadith nullifies this argument. Unless there is a point in history at which Muhammad was simultaneously at war with both a Christians nation and Banu Qurayza Jews. Thus, this can't be limited to Banu Qurayza expenditure.

Also, please note that a related hadith to this warn Muslims not to return the complete salam to the Christians and Jews that initiate salam.
“It was narrated from Abu ‘Abdur-Rahman Al Juhani that the Messenger of Allah said: “I am riding to the Jews tomorrow. Do not initiate the greeting with them, and if they greet you, then say: Wa ‘alaikum (and also upon you)”. Sunan Ibn Majah
If the Muslims were so much in war with Jews and wont initiate salam to them, why even respond to their salam? This again, is untenable.
Also, why merely push the Jewish enemies to the narrowest side of the road? Was this all the Muslims could do to hurt their mortal enemies?

There are all kinds of unreasonable, untenable argument for this hadith and many other gross hadith by traditional scholars. But delving on all of them will detract from the this aim of this thread.

This is clearly a fabricated hadith at worst, a poorly reported hadith at best. Either way, it point to the flaw of science of hadith.

Empiree: Usermane, how are you bro?.

You on vacation or what?.

Good to see you around.
Thanks pal. Not a vacation exactly. Got inspired for this thread by recent bitter experiences and reflections on my part, regarding the Muslim society.

I am of the opinion that you first need to agree that Islam has its history. Quran is not just a Book revealed without some sort of historical background. If you fail to understand this, which you have been doing actually, you will never get out of your cloister. I do welcome your fair criticisms of some hadith even if they are alleged to be sahih
I believe you've read my counter argument for this hadith by now. I should have posted it alongside the hadith yesterday, because I did sift through the argument for the hadith, even before I posted it. I have very rigorous modus operandi for hadith criticism, am no amateur.
IslamRe: Why Qur'an Alone? 2.0 by usermane(op): 3:33pm On Jul 02, 2018
#1

Hadith breeding aggression and intolerance

Sahih Muslim>Book of Greetings>Hadith 5389
“Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger as saying: Do not greet the Jews and the Christians before they greet you and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it.”
IslamWhy Qur'an Alone? 2.0 by usermane(op):
Peace.

July 2012
Usisky created a post with this title; Why Qur'an alone?, presenting an hour long YouTube session of Edip Yuksel and various web links promoting pristine Islam that is contained in the Qur'an, the whole Qur'an and only the Qur'an.

The spurious origins and shady teachings of hadith books would be the bone of contention of usisky's post and references.

July 2018
The subject of this thread will be no different from usisky's, but it will deal more directly on presenting the worst of hadith books, drawing parallels between Islam as belief system of Qur'an alone and Islam as a mix of Qur'an and sunnah/ahlul bayt.

So, this thread will be updated periodically with vile extracts from major hadith books of traditional Islam.

Thank you.


Table of Content:

NB: Some topics are covered in multiple posts. Ensure you've read everything on a topic by scrolling through the subsequent post.

Hadith #1: Hadith breeding aggression and intolerance

Apologist argument for Hadith #1

Key Points on Hadith #1

Hadith #2: Hadith slandering the messenger, breeding child abuse, child marriage and pedophilia

Hadith #3: Hadith objectifying women and breeding rape.

More Apologetics for Hadith #3

A Case of Child Marriage under sharia

Hadith #4: Hadith fostering Muslim supremacy, Aggression, and terrorism or imperialism

Abu Bakr As Sadik started terrorism in the name of Islam

Hadith #5: Hadith breeding hypocrisy, oppression and Murder

The miserable faith of the traditional Muslim apostates

Famous Muslim apostates and their fate in Recent times

Muslim Apostasy In Northern Nigeria

Ignoring Empyree

Hadith #6: Hadith legislating cold murder of blasphemers or Critics

My Opinion on Charlie Hebdo

Apologists on Hadith #6

Satire: Fate of Blasphemers in Muslim world

Insanely silly Analogy from Empyree

Blasphemy by Muslims against Islam

Hadith depict Muhammad like a Porn*star

Hadith #7: Hadith breeding stupidity and Ignorance

Muslim Ignorance in the 21st century

More Hadith breeding Stupidity & Ignorance: Combing Hair daily is haram, Yawning comes from Satan, Winter & Summer comes from Hell

Hadith as faulty basis for Tafsir

A Muslim's Guide To Study Qur'an

Lip service of Hadith defender to Qur'an

Traditional Muslims Don't Study Qur'an

Hadith #8: Hadith Fostering Muslim Supremacy, Injustice and Bias

Fatwa: Whether Muslim is killed for killing non-Muslim

Hadith #9: Hadith breeding Slavery

Prisoners of War(POW): Between Slavery and Imprisonment

Slavery & Jihad go hand in hand in Mainstream Islam

More cases of Hadith disapproving slave manumission

Hadith #10: Hadith promoting rape, concubines, fornication and adultery

Fatwa - Intercourse with female slaves

I seek to please none

More On Slavery

Message from a shrewd Christian Man

Traditional Muslim Method of deriving sharia Laws

The flaws of the Refutations by Empyree

What is my Mission

Arabs Observed Salat Before Muhammad, God Never Condemned their Procedure

Salat Without Hadith

An Analysis of Qur'an 8:35: Did Pre-Islamic Arabs Literally Clap & Whistle as Salat

Clapping & Whistling in the Arabs' Salat

Singing, Humming & Clapping/Whistling in Traditionalists' salat

Bye To Traditionalists' Congregational Salat

A Poor Refutation & Letting the sleeping dogs lie

Acknowledgement
SportsRe: Nigerians React To Super Eagles 2 - 0 Loss To Croatia by usermane(m): 12:53am On Jun 17, 2018
That is it. Nigeria won't qualify to the next round. I don't see Nigeria grabbing more than a point against Argentina or Iceland. Nigeria will finish with no more than two points and will be eliminated. Croatia may need only a point now to qualify and Argentina will at least win one of their next two games. I will say Iceland that held Argentina to a draw have a chance at beating Nigeria and qualifying.


We are a small team who rejoice at defeats to England and Czech Republic in friendlies. It comments on how low out expectations have become. This is why I stopped watching Super Eagles and Nigerians have to wake up and smell the coffee. This is not the 1990s anymore.
ComputersRe: 10 Reasons Your Computer Is Frustratingly Slow And What To Do About It by usermane(m): 11:27am On Jun 16, 2018
Turn off Windows Update. It takes a lot of processing power
RomanceRe: Zambian Slay Queen's Nude Photos Leaked Online After Sending To European Lover by usermane(m): 4:21am On Jun 08, 2018
Angelanest:
When will some ladies learn about sending nude pictures to guys in the name of love or money. A beautiful slay queen has got herself trending online and a subject of mockery after her nude pictures were released online and have since been trending.

According to reports, the accountancy graduate identified as Mbayama Jombo from Lusaka, Zambia was reported to have sent the purported pictures to an older white lover in Europe who was said to have leaked them.

The pictures have caused a buzz on social media especially among Zambian online users who stormed the lady's Facebook account to confirm the story as she totally ignored their comments.

While some have hailed the lady for her beautiful body, others have chastised her for sending the pictures to her lover.

Source; https://www.nationalhelm.co/2018/06/slay-queens-photos-leaked-online-after-sending-them-to-her-european-lover.html
And you are posting it here for us? You are part of the problem you are citing.
HealthI Need Sleeping Pills Recommendations by usermane(op): 8:49am On Apr 08, 2018
Hello people.

I have very big exams coming up this week and I need to sleep but I just can't. My heart is palpitating like drum, my eyes are weary but still I can't sleep without waking up intermittently from nightmares, for urination.

Please I need recommendations on sleeping pills. I want somthing that will knock me out straight
IslamRe: The Entity And The Kettle: Question For Islamic Scholars by usermane(m): 6:51pm On Mar 13, 2018
Salaam.

That is not Quranic verse. God, are people this clueless about Islam?

That is an Hadith or reported speech supposedly from Muhammad.
Christianity EtcRe: Muslim Girl Converts To Christianity In Jos And It's Causing Controversy by usermane(m): 10:14am On Jan 14, 2018
This isn't new
LiteratureRe: Excerpts From Untold Pain: A Novel by usermane(op): 5:34pm On Jan 07, 2018
Immediately, as they left, Dale set his sight for the staff quarters, his foot pattering up the tile floored walkway branching into classrooms by the left and walled by lushly green flowers at the right. Adjacent to the block of classrooms, only interjected by the finance office, the staff quarter greeted Dale with a feel of nervousness and unease. Not that he was particularly wary of any of his staff. His relationship with most of the staff either fall into fair or indifferent. But the given the wide distance between the staff quarter and other facilities frequently sought by the staff, any student within or around the confines of the staff quarter is most likely an going on an errand for a staff. Either, to collect a text from the library, purchase a book or stationary from the bookshop or grab some lunch from the cafeteria.

“Dale” Mr Tom’s voice cease his thought as he emerged in the doorway opening into the small hall. Dale head swung slightly left in reaction. At the reception was Mr. Tom, sleeves folded, an ice cold bottle of soft in hand and the books he’d been carrying earlier had now been pile on the computer desk behind which sat a young brown haired Miss Akilah. At the moment, she seem preoccupied with paperwork and rather unwilling to give Mr Tom a bit of attention. Mr Tom’s index finger pointed Dale through the double door that had been left wide open.
"Wait in my office!". He called to Dale.

The door open into a large passage bordered on either side by square cubicles lined side to side vertically down down the passage. It used to be just one large office where all staff sat side to side only a few feet apart but that had changed with the appointment of the new principal two months ago. Tom’s cabin as Dale still recollect was the second, on the right end of the passage. Cabin after cabin, he shot down the passage way, his ear drums occupied with mouse clicks, white noise from ceiling air conditioner vents and faint traffic noise from the exterior.

Arriving at the door, the sliding door opened leftward at his pull and he entered, ushering himself to the guest seat. “Phew”, he whispered in relief at the sound of footsteps approaching. But it was not Mr Tom, for another five minutes that felt like eternity, he persisted in his seat. The office was cozy and smelt of old books some of which had been stacked on the cabinet on the table before him. The chair well padded felt more comfy to his butt than the stacking ones furnishing the classrooms. Drowned in boredom, he had almost dozed off when the door slide open again and Mr Tom bust in. The heelless pair of chocolate brown leather boots buckled over his feet had done well to muffle his steps through the passage.

“Hey” He smiled, dropping to his chair wheeled himself forward, towards the center of the table so that he was directly facing Dale. He arranged the pile of books on table, their spines neatly aligned facing him.

“Pepsi?” Mr Tom asked. Dale shook his head to pass, this overt hospitality he was receiving from Mr Tom was too good to be true. But too late for him, the door creaked again and a petite girl of about eighteen entered, a tray in hand bearing a chilled can of Pepsi. Mr Tom nod slightly at Tom and she dropped the tray before him and disappeared out of the cubicle. Dale raised his eyelids in disapproval.

“Relax, you don’t have to drink it here” Mr Tom tapped his index finger on the table.
“You can go with it if you like, that is why I have ordered for a can”

Staff never treated their students to drinks. Meetings between students and staff in the school premises have always been formal and brief. There was no time for morning coffee, afternoon snack or soft drink. Whatever Mr Tom had to talk with him, must it be discussed over a drink? Wait, why hadn’t this bothered him, what was he even here for? What did Mr Tom want to discuss? Thoughts on Regina had so flooded his mind today that he couldn’t care less about anything else.

“Sorry for taking your time” began Mr Tom on a more serious note. Dale leaned forward, crossing his arms over the table to lend full attention.

“I just wanted to learn a bit about you, so it is nothing to wary of”. He brushed his thumb over his goatee and continued.

“You seem unlike the rest of your class, you know..... more attentive, diligent and industrious”.

“My job would be a lot easier with more students like you... you know” he rolled up his sleeves and withdrew the top book from the pile. “The Basics of Calculus” read the yellow title text in bold Time New Roman font over the red hard back cover.

“You don’t have anymore class for the day......”
“There is double period of Physics” Dale interrupted, shifting backward in his chair. He had sounded too loud than he expected and feared he might be have come across as rude. But Mr Tom merely took notice. He had opened the book to the content page and was running his finger through the chapters.

“Mr Robert..... is on sick leave today”. He opened to about the center of the book and began to flip backward pages backward. Dale’s heart heaved with relief. Learning that he would have no class for the day will ease the remainder of his time here. He reclined further into the chair, still ignoring the can before him. The condensate sliding down the can had began to pool around its base in the tray.

“I wont take much of your time, Dale. I understand you haven’t taken lunch”

“I have gone through the class last semester grades, you seem to have struggled a bit with Calculus? He lifted his eyes to Dale.

“Yes, sir” Dale replied almost in whisper. His face fell in shame. Pulling multiple rounds of coffee fueled all nighters to practice plenty of exercises weeks before the final only earned him one percent above the pass mark. It was a close shave.

“I had never taken calculus before then” Dale added, his voice taut in desperation to vindicate himself. Was this going to be the moment when Mr Tom recommend he dropped the class and choose a major that did not require it? He prayed in his heart that this wasn’t it.

“Soo, is it a mandatory requirement for your university degree or you just seek to one up your application?” Mr Tom dropped the book in his hand and picked up the next book at the top of the pile. “Electrical Engineering, right?”

“No, Agricultural Engineering. It is not a mandatory requirement, but with most applicants taking it to boost their chances, it leaves me with no choice”. Dale said.

Dale swallowed hard as he recalled submitting two applications last year only to get turned down. Opting to reapply again by January, he was rather encouraged by his supervisor to take Calculus. The university had not mentioned this as part of her admission grade requirement but were favoring students with good grade in Calculus over those without calculus. He disliked Maths, he was never good in Mathematics however hard he tried. His secondary education was highlighted with excellent grades and awards in every science course; Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Technical Drawings, Geography, but Dale could never excel half as much in Mathematics.

“It is no problem Dale.... I am not recommending you drop it”
“I am here to help” He pat the book page.

“Here....” He fetched out a sheet of paper from his breast pocket, squinted at the writing and slipped into Dale’s hand. Dale frowned at scribbling of digits he’d been passed.

“You can read that?” Mr Tom asked. Jagged, the digits seem to have been scribbled in a sleepy state.

“Umm...yes. The last digit?” Dale asked.
“It’s a 4”

“Call me whenever you need help. This semester will be a lot tougher than the last, but you can make it easier ....If you share your difficulties with me”. Mr Tom asserted.

“Thank you, sir” Dale heart lightened with relief, he couldn’t think of any better way to express his gratitude. Having Mr Tom at his disposal for Calculus problem will save him a lot of time.

“Alright, that’s it!” Mr Tom clasped his hands like they had come to the end of an official agreement. He stretched forth his right hand. Dale arose and shook him, a glint of satisfaction in his eyes.

“Feel free with me. As a teacher and a friend, I am here for you” emphasized Mr Tom.
“Don’t forget your drink” Mr Tom pointed at the can. He seem to have read Dale’s mind. The day had been full of surprises and the least on his mind now is a can of Pepsi.
Respecting the wish of Mr Tom, he picked up the drink and departed the office.
LiteratureRe: Excerpts From Untold Pain: A Novel by usermane(op): 5:33pm On Jan 07, 2018
********

Dale had no class for the next couple of hours. It was only the first day of the academic semester and he didn’t feel like hitting the library yet. So he remained in his seat, waiting for the perfect moment to go talk to Regina. Unfortunately, Ron and Regina had remain inseparable all morning. Together, they strolled past him out of the class for the cafeteria about an hour before noon. When Regina returned back alone about half an hour later, she had merely acknowledged him. She strode right past him without even a glance in his direction. Though slightly dejected that Regina had ignored his presence he felt his heart warm with relief that Ron was not with her anymore. The class was virtually empty, most students had not returned from the cafeteria. Could he wish for any better moment this to approach her? Warm blood rushed through his cheeks as he move to get to his feet. What would would he say to her now? Why hasn’t she called him since she left? Was she avoiding or ignoring him? He deserved an explanation, he nod. He pulled out his legs from beneath the desk causing it to jerk noisily. He rehearse his lines in his head once more as he stood between his chair and desk. He’d start with an Hi, then ask if he could sit. She’ll permit him, wont she? Then, he’ll ask her about the call and why she seem to have ignored his presence all day despite owing him a call.

Two steps away from his seat, he heard the familiar steps that had interrupted their lesson that morning and within a split second a chair behind him creaked aloud as Ron jostled past him in direction of Regina.

“Hi Dale” Ron waved as he dropped on Regina’s desk. She was holding her phone to her face, typing in a rush.

“Hi” He waved back, his voice bored with embarrassment and he staggered back towards the nearest seat and collapse on one of them. He could feel Ron’s gaze still on him. What? He wondered, did she notice, had he embarrassed himself? He bowed in shame, determined to continue avoid Ron’s gaze, whom he could see from the corner of his eyes was having small talk with Regina. She’d not even given him a look at all. After everything that happened last weekend, she was acting really strange. There was definitely something going on between these two and whatever it is, it is definitely getting in his way of seeing her.

She seem to want to be approached, girls always do. He had little to no experience on girls but he knew this from the movies, TV and his uncle had mentioned this a couple of times on breezy nights where they sat in the porch of the farmhouse enjoying the cool air, discussing various matters that range from dating, business, money and farm among a host of others. He got up again, this time heading out through the door. Further across the walkway, he leaned on the railing facing away from the class. Barely half full of chatty students lining at the counter for their lunch or already at the table munching away spoonful after spoonful of all varieties of meal, the school eatery or cafeteria stood 40 yards away.

He peered through the vertical window slit opposite him to read the clock in the classroom. It was barely 11:00AM. Too early for lunch, he thought to himself. But most of the students here were taking brunch, having skipped breakfast at home in bid to catch the 8:00PM classes. For Dale, breakfast was like a ritual that must be performed every morning or risk hunger for the entire school hours. He’d made it a point every night to prepare and refrigerate his breakfast, usually simple sandwich of saute fish and vegetables placed between mayonnaise coated sliced bread. By morning, all that was needed was to reheat it in the microwave, pour himself a cup tea and his meal was ready. He didn’t like eatery, thanks to the social butterflies like Ron, it had become a social center where guys and girls come to entertain themselves chatting, flirting and gossiping. Even this far from the eatery, he could hear their voices. Whatever happened to table manners. He’d been there a couple of days when he wanted something different for breakfast but like a bull in a china shop he’d sat at the table all alone scooping spoonful after spoonful in his mouth, eyes after eyes of curious students flashing his table in astonishment or bafflement.

“Hey” Ron tapped his shoulder and he spun around. A wide smile and a handshake awaiting him. He pulled up the sleeves of his polo shirt and extended his arm to Ron. The handshake felt rather unnatural, he winced as Ron squeezed his palm. He could not recall the last time they’d shook hands. For as long as he could recall, their relationship had been next to none ever since they’ve met.

“Sorry for the push, mate... I hadn’t realized it at the time but Regina seem to be unhappy with it”

Dale forced a smile. He had forgotten about the push. Not that it mattered anyway, he felt more bitter about getting interrupted from approaching Regina.

“Dale, she is such a nice girl, don’t you think?” Ron released his grip on Dale’s palm.

“And beautiful too” He turned his face towards the door where Regina now stood busy on her phone and quickly turned back to Dale as if beseeching a response.

Awkward, but trying not to embarrass himself like before, Dale ignored the question, fixing his eyes on Regina.

“Hi Regina” he greeted as she stepped through the door, proceeding towards them. Busy as a bee, she was still punching her keypad oblivious of Dale or his greeting as she walked by to Ron’s left side. Dale legs shivered in disbelief and he leaned back on the railings for support. Wasn’t he loud enough, was she ignoring him, what had he done?

“Regina” Ron called.

"Hmm...?" she jerked gaze out of her screen to Ron.

“Dale says Hi”

“Oh, am so sorry Dale..... Hi” Her tone was soft and sweet. Her face glowing with smile melted his heart instantly, burying his dejection and reawakening his joy.

“Hi! He repeated, taking a step towards her only to stop in his track. Ron had pulled closer towards her already.

“Dale raised his eye brow”, taken aback. Ron seem more than ever to be hindering him from Regina. If he had any doubt that the push earlier had been deliberate, this sudden act of possessiveness by Ron have relinquished it. Regina’s smile seem to be fading away and while Ron’s face was carving into a smirk.

“We are headed for the library” It was Ron who broke the silence, relieving Dale off the moment of embarrassment.

“You can come hang out at my place this weekend, they’ll be a party.....It will be fun”

Dale eyes flared in disbelief. Ron was inviting him to his place, to a party? There ought to be some sort of explanation for this. He pulled his hands into his pocket and just stared in bewilderment. A group of girls strode past him, past Ron and Regina towards the library at the end of the walkway opposite Dale. Now and then, they’ll peek over their shoulders at Ron and Regina, their eyes watered with curiosity on the pair.

“Will you come?” Regina asked. She seem to be aware of the eyes trailing at them but not bothered in the slightest.

He wasn’t sure he could come. He wasn’t even sure why Ron was inviting him. He wasn’t sure of anything so far today. He needed time to decide.

“Dale!” Mr Thomas called from behind. He was carrying a tall pile about half a dozen textbooks in one palm, supported by his chest, while the free hand pulled opened the door to the staff department.
“Come see me now! At my cabin, please”

“Right sir” Dale nodded.

Ron and Regina were turning to leave now.

“Please do come, Dale. It will be fun” Ron assured him.

Dale looked over at Regina and she nod in affirmation as they both turned for the library down the walkway.
LiteratureRe: Excerpts From Untold Pain: A Novel by usermane(op): 5:32pm On Jan 07, 2018
Copyright © 2017 by S.M Nas
All rights reserved. This book or any portion thereof may not be reproduced or used in any manner whatsoever without the express written permission of the publisher except for the use of brief quotations in a book review.

Chapter 2

“Listen!” Above chatter encroaching his lecture, Mr Thomas’s voice echoed from the white board, through the rows and column of student occupied desk to the rear of the class where Dale sat. Dale jerked his head in reaction back to his table on which lay a pen and a plain paper covered in scribbles. For what seem like half a minute, he had been staring at Regina who was sitting four desks diagonally away at the second row. He’d started this lecture with rapt attention, his eyes directly trailing the white board and ears siphoning the words from the young lecturer pacing side to side of the white board. However, as the minutes rolled, he soon find his attention drifting further and away from the lectures and nearer to Regina. For the umpteenth time since the class had commenced, he had been locked in an internal conflict between the course of his woes and the girl of his dreams.

“Quiet! Mr Thomas called again. And the whole class fell silent as graveyard. As he parted his lips between his prominent goatee to begin to address the class, brisk and creaky footstep from outside drawing closer to the room cut him short. One after the other, head turned away from Mr. Thomas towards the door as another student entered. Male, about 21 years, tall and fitter than Dale. He stopped at the door mouth to stare back at all the eyes staring at him, a fixing a hard smirk at the onlookers. “Please, have a seat Mr Ron”, Mr Thomas pointed at the empty seats before him. Ron proceeded his stride upward till the front row, and down to the end of the row to an empty seat on the right, next to Regina. Regina recovered an handbag from the chair and he plopped in like a king occupying his throne. Dale’s jaw dropped, there seem to be something going on with these two. Dale had been eyeing that seat all morning as his attention fluctuated between the lecture and Regina. After initially chickening at the thought made his mind to move there after the class to at least say Hi to Regina.

Dale shifted uneasily in his chair, leaned and turned his gaze back to the board. Mr. Thomas. Over the white board, Mr Thomas’s eraser stuffed hand swayed left and right, rubbing away the red ink writing, drawings and illustrations.

“By the way, you are over thirty minutes late for the class, you mustn’t be this late for my class again” Mr Thomas declared over his shoulder.

“I had things to sort out with the account department” Ron sounded sharp and defensive.

Dale raised his eyebrow to glance at the digital clock above the board. Mr Thomas was true, but Ron was false. He resisted the urge to turn Ron’s direction once more. He hoped Mr Thomas would reaffirm his warning disregarding Ron’s excuse but the young professor seem rather uninterested getting further into the subject. He paced to the lecture podium to recover a his reference textbook, turning through the pages. Dale cupped his jaw in his right palm a little disappointed. Ron had clearly lied to Mr. Thomas, the account department didn’t open today. He had been there earlier that morning for financial clearance as well but the cashier had informed him that there were technical problem the office needed to sort out that would take the entire school day. If Ron had been there, he’d have been informed as well.

“Sure, Mr Ron? I passed by the office on my way in for the lecture, a bold note by the door announcing that the officers will not open for the day". Dale fought to restrain the smile of contentment that was cropping his face.

“He is true sir, he’d misunderstood the note and had been waiting there all morning” Regina’s voice pierce through his ears like a knife effectively pruning off his smile.

Mr Thomas, walked along the row drawing closer to Regina with the textbook borne in his palm, his arm seem to have depressed owing to the sheer weight of the book. He seem dissatisfied with Regina’s response. And his silence rather seem to be demanding for further proof. Unperturbed and indifferent, Ron sat still, twirling the ballpoint pen between his thumbs as though everything else depend upon it.

“I....I messaged him ten minutes ago to inform him the office was closed” Regina added before turning to Ron.

Mr. Thomas looked over the heads before him till his eyes met Dale. Then, he returned his sight back to Regina who seem to be intent in averting his eyes.

Mr Thomas scanned further through the pages of the text book for several seconds then shut it.

“I believe you.... Regina”. He gave an apologetic smile and retreated to the board.

Hard as it was to admit that Dale was right, it was even harder to admit that Regina had been false. Regina was a nice girl that commanded the respect of both students and staff. Virtually every girl admired her and probably all the boys in the class fancied her. She was academically gifted and blessed with a gorgeous look. Despite this, a part of him seem skeptical. It seem in character for Regina to have alerted Ron that office was closed for the day. However, it was out of character of her to operate her phone in class. The class rule forbid operation of mobile phones during lecture. Aside this, Regina’s unwavering concentration in lectures mean that she’d never even consider the idea of anything or anyone else.

Could she really have broken her attention, broken the class rule to just message Ron while Mr Thomas had been lecturing or was she merely covering for him? Dale rationalized these two probabilities to no end, only to conclude that whichever was true, Regina was uncharacteristically getting out of her way to support Ron. After another fifteen minutes of lecturing, Mr Thomas dismissed the class, inviting Dale to his office as he made for the exit.
LiteratureExcerpts From Untold Pain: A Novel by usermane(op): 5:07pm On Jan 07, 2018
It has been over two years since I set off to write my novel: UNTOLD PAIN

I look back at my old topic where I revealed my plan for the novel and I just can't believe how little I have done.
https://www.nairaland.com/2474092/untold-pain-making

Over the last two years, I have struggled with time. I realized bitterly that when you are not a full time writer, writing become even more difficult to pursue. I knew it would be hard, just not this hard. When you take numerous college classes weekly or work 40 hours per week, writing a may to drop down your priority list.

Another thing I realized after wasting so much time drafting my scenes and chapters on paper was that transcribing onto the computer becomes boring and cumbersome. Therefore, until June 2017, in bid to conserve paper and speed writing, I had all these chapters drafted in my pocket notes in tiny writings which I occasionally found illegible. The plot were too disjointed and incoherent for even a first draft.

By ending of June, I resolved to start typing on computer starting a fresh story still built on the original ideas but unrelated to the scribbling and jotting I had preoccupied myself in.

Anyway, I have typed just under 60,000 words in the last 6 months. Word wise, this is a novel according to Wikipedia but plot-wise I am far from done with even the first draft. In this thread, I'll be posting excerpt from the Untold Pain: A Novel. I hope you enjoy my writing, feel free to leave a comment.
IslamRe: Mu'tazila: Use Of Rationality In Islamic Theology by usermane(op): 1:33pm On Jan 06, 2018
Fundamentalist:
Mutazillah school of thought cannot last as its not the truth . According to the Qur'an, falsehood never lasts : Allah says

Ar-Ra'd 13:17

أَنزَلَ مِنَ ٱلسَّمَآءِ مَآءً فَسَالَتْ أَوْدِيَةٌۢ بِقَدَرِهَا فَٱحْتَمَلَ ٱلسَّيْلُ زَبَدًا رَّابِيًاۚ وَمِمَّا يُوقِدُونَ عَلَيْهِ فِى ٱلنَّارِ ٱبْتِغَآءَ حِلْيَةٍ أَوْ مَتَٰعٍ زَبَدٌ مِّثْلُهُۥۚ كَذَٰلِكَ يَضْرِبُ ٱللَّهُ ٱلْحَقَّ وَٱلْبَٰطِلَۚ فَأَمَّا ٱلزَّبَدُ فَيَذْهَبُ جُفَآءًۖ وَأَمَّا مَا يَنفَعُ ٱلنَّاسَ فَيَمْكُثُ فِى ٱلْأَرْضِۚ كَذَٰلِكَ يَضْرِبُ ٱللَّهُ ٱلْأَمْثَالَ

He sends down from the sky, rain, and valleys flow according to their capacity, and the torrent carries a rising foam. And from that [ore] which they heat in the fire, desiring adornments and utensils, is a foam like it. Thus Allah presents [the example of] truth and falsehood. As for the foam, it vanishes, [being] cast off; but as for that which benefits the people, it remains on the earth. Thus does Allah present examples.
You misinterpreted that verse. We both know from human history that truth does not always last and that is why God repeatedly sent messengers to earth. The truth is apparent, but that doesn't mean even half of the people recognize it. I think you can see how at least 95% of Christian rejected the doctrine of unity for the doctrine of trinity. If you think the Muslim community is incapable of straying off the true path, you merely live in fool's paradise.

Anyway, I think the Mu'tazila have really interesting ideas. And I think, this writing will help anyone who is disillusioned with the traditionalist view of God or predestination.
IslamMu'tazila: Use Of Rationality In Islamic Theology by usermane(op): 11:06am On Jan 05, 2018
A detailed and relatively unbiased look at Mu'tazila school of thought in early Islam.

http://www.mutazila.net/

The Mut'azila were champions of rationality, logic or reason for interpretation of Qur'anic texts in Muslim history. Unlike the mainstream traditional schools, the Mut'azila maintain that reason and revelation have to complement each other and revelation cannot go contrary to reason if it is truly divine.

The Mu'tazila reigned from the late Ummayad era to early Abbasid era after which they were ousted out by the traditionalists. By the 11th to 12th century the Mut'azila voices have become nonexistent and text were scarce. Today, existing documents on Mu'tazila are written by traditionalist and do not offer accurate and unbias representation of the Mu'tazila.

In this webpage I have cited above, you may read about:

Part one

Mu'tazila use of reasoning

Mu'tazila history

Dominance of Ash'arism

The Ash'arite view

Response from Mu'tazili, 'Abd al-Jabbar

Mu'tazila reasoning & doctrine

God in relation to reason & moral laws

Part two

Debates over free will & predestination

Meaning of qadar – capacity or determinism

Relevant verses from the Qur'an

Interpreting meaning by overall context

Example of Mu'tazila logic

Guide us on the straight way


Part three

Mis-representation of the Mu'tazila

Sunni-Ash'ari 'Divine Decree'

The meaning of 'God Wills'

Ideas about God's power and will

How important is prayer?

Contradictory beliefs

Mistakes in life: the bad and stupid

Life - an undetermined work in progress
IslamRe: Beards: A Failure Of Traditional Muslim Men by usermane(op): 4:00pm On Jan 03, 2018
https://djriqayym0hsz.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Sultan-of-Sokoto.jpg

Sultan of Sokoto: Sa'adu Abubakar

Even the famous spiritual and ceremonial leader of Nigerian Muslims won't let his beard grow.
IslamRe: The Dust Will Never Settle Down. by usermane(m): 6:25am On Jan 03, 2018
IdisuleOurOwn:
Thanks, bro usermane for this. Are this "barbaric act" still applicable to this day Ummah? This acts I believe are the driven power of isil, Al Qaeda,Taliban, Al shabab and the rest.
To a certain extent, Empiree did answer this question but with little damage control.
I'll start my own response with questions.
If these laws(babaric acts) are inapplicable today then,
why did Anwar Al-Awlaki write the book?
Why is Aasia Bibi under life or death sentence in Pakistan for allegedly insulting Muhammad?
Why did Iran condemn Salman Rushdie to death for writing Satanic verses?

In traditional Islam, the laws are immutable and applicable at all time. Anyone who dare question these laws on grounds of incompatibility with modern time will be slammed as a modernist, westernized or deviant Muslim. You can see from the few cases mentioned that these these laws are not applied by terrorists groups only. Every functioning sharia compliant Muslim country continue to apply these laws. In Saudi Arabia, there is the case of Raif Al Badawi still imprisoned for 10 years with 1000 lashes mainly for blasphemy. And with charges of apostasy against him, he'll likely face death sentence on conviction by the court.

Dude, this is the twenty first century, the information age. Google is indispensable too for anyone seeking the truth.

We all know that the main sources of Islamic creed are found in the area whichthe above groups originated from. Talk about Iraq, Yemen, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Syria this places are where you find the original sources of Islamic history.

A.slm, Rilwayne001
I think you misunderstood my usage of the term; sources of Islam. By sources of Islam, I don't mean the region of origin of Islam. I mean the religious text(s) of Islam.
LiteratureRe: 2017-2018 Chatbox by usermane(m): 6:23pm On Jan 02, 2018
kayo80:
What's up guys? This came at the right time. I was thinking of starting a whatsapp group for Nairaland writers, but this can serve the same purpose.

So, what I want to ask you guys this morning is this... Why are there no rich fiction writers in Nigeria?

I was just having a conversation with my friend in my house just now... He is into online branding, and we were talking about how Nigeria has such a large population, which supports other forms of art (music, movies, even painters), but authors don't make shitt (pardon my French).

This is sickening, and it needs to change. We put in as much work as other artists, why don't we make even a quarter or a tenth of what they make?
Peace people.
People don't value books anymore. In fact, they'd really binge watch TV or films for weeks than invest two days on a novel. Reading culture is dead. To succeed as an author, you need a little bit of luck or connection to supplement effort.

Yes, Nigerians don't really read, but someone like NaijaSingleGirl was able to capture a lot of Nigerians with her humor and controversial subject matters. But since she released her book (29 and single or something like that) two years ago, the book has sold just 800 copies on Okadabooks. I was really disappointed in her sales, judging from her popularity and all the promo she did before the book was released, I was expecting it to have sold at least a couple of thousands of copies.
@underbolded, how many percent of Nigerians are regular users of this forum?
First, Nigerians hate reading.
Secondly, ebooks are not really popular in Nigeria. So, it may not be a good idea to invest your effort here if you want to sell significant quantity of books.
Thirdly, I think her book is too expensive. Readers may not want to invest in a book they are unsure they'll enjoy. An author has to convince readers they'll enjoy her book. That is why it is difficult to succeed with a debut standalone book. Not every author is J.K Rowling. Most only begin to see success after releasing multiple books. Let's also not forget that most Nigerians like free stuff, they cannot appreciate the effort expended in writing a book.

Lastly, as I have stated, Nigerians do not read. Any author serious about selling books may want to consider another market aside okada books. I have been to the site, checked a couple of free-books but was put off by poor writing. This hurts the reputation of the site in the eyes of serious readers.

Don't leave your eggs in one basket, try out popular international e-book stores.

kayo80:
Hey guys, on a lighter note, let's talk about how our writing process goes. Do you take anything for ginger/inspiration? wink You know, sometimes when you have writers block and you just have to write, do you take anything or do anything to get your creative juices flowing.
I simply go on a walk, usually in the mornings. I keep pondering till I figure out how to proceed the plot. Just a simple, solitary and quiet walk with no music, no external noise to detract my meditation.

I believe at least 80% of us here are adults, so let's not be shy. smiley. I know some writers listen to music, some take alcohol, some smoke something (you know that thing), some have sex or think about sex, some draw energy from memories of a breakup or a sad event in their lives, some get driven by the thought of money and fame at the end of the line, some watch movies in the genre they write in, etc.. What is your own source of inspiration for writing?
What inspire me to write is my love of stories, my passion for storytelling.
As for my story ideas, my source of inspiration is a mixed bag. Past events in my life, my current personal struggles does inspire my ideas. Rock and alternative music, TV, movies, video games, novels and their cover arts do inspire me with ideas.
Sometimes even a picture or a quote could inspire me with ideas that may fit or not fit within the context of my current book.
2 Likes
IslamRe: The Dust Will Never Settle Down. by usermane(m): 3:08pm On Jan 02, 2018
Peace

You may not know this, I am not your typical next door Muslim. So, what I'm about to say on this subject might not be what you expect. Some people call me a Qur'anist, deviant Muslim, Dajjal, modernist Muslim, extremist Muslim, all kinds of slanderous names but I'd identify myself a HETERODOX Muslim, because my Islamic beliefs are far cry from the mainstream and what is regarded orthodox.

I read the lecture as you requested. However, I am anything but shocked.
Anwar Al Aulaqi is merely expressing that side of traditional Islam that almost every Muslim want to just sweep under the rug and pretend that it doesn't exist. The Muslim community loves to rave on how beautiful, peaceful, egalitarian & women empowering traditional Islam is but this is often borne out of ignorance or dishonesty because if you bore deep into traditional Islamic sources that interpret Islam(Tafsir, Hadith, Seerah, Fiqh), you will find all kinds of unholy teachings.

Every account in Anwar Al Aulaqi's lecture on killing those who abuse Muhammad can be tracked to traditional Islamic sources of sharia. The references are well cited.
I'd say, start investigating the Islam you have been thought. Start from scratch(Qur'an), What is Islam, what are the sources of Islam? Don't limit yourself to the orthodox viewpoints, research and learn of the heterodox before reaching conclusion

Peace.
IslamRe: Hijab, Qur'an, Law, And Religion. by usermane(m): 3:08am On Jan 01, 2018
Empiree:
^^^

I still don't get why Hijab matter is a big deal?
I don't get why niqab is a big deal at the bar either.

I have put up picture descriptions to illustrate hijabi lawyers in the West.

Why is this an issue?. Are you more democratic than them?

All of you bypassed hijabi inaugurations pictures i put up there.

I ask again, is nigerian Bar more secular than them?

You have problems in that country you called Nigeria. Everything you try to copy from your slave masters. But then, you wanna act like you know more than slave masters. Why is every skywards negative in Nigeria?.
Of course, the Western society, the supposed enemy of Islam becomes a good example where her policies favor traditional Islam. We should not consider the US policy on alcohol, gay marriages or pornography but we should consider and imitate her policy when it comes to hijab in secular institutions.

Is it not only at Bar hijabians have been abused. They have been abused at govt offices and schools. Muslim children wear hijab to school in America. You dare not yank off hijab from her. You going to jail for hate crime. Hijab is identity for women and western govt perfectly understood that except for islamophobia movement.
The issue is not on abuse of hijab wearers, we all condemn yanking off and shoving away any person's attire. The subject here is wearing hijab to a place it wouldn't be approved. In US, there were legal procedures that had to be established before hijab could be freely permitted at secular institutions to grant the right of women to wear head covers.

PS: For a man who seem so certain of his stance, you sound too accusatory. Only prejudice and bias for hijab can underlie such accusations because I have made it clear that I have no issue with permitting hijab at the bar once this has been tabled, discussed and decided on by relevant authorities in light of the law, principles and goals of the institutions.
I don't have bias against the hijab anymore than I have bias against the hat or baseball cap. Ever since I concluded women are not obliged to cover their hair, eyes and neck in Islam, I stopped taking the hijab serious. Only those who believe hijab to be an Islamic law have bias or prejudice for or against hijab
IslamRe: Hijab, Qur'an, Law, And Religion. by usermane(m): 5:18pm On Dec 31, 2017
tintingz:
Albaqir, does a Muslim woman have right to judge men or have power over men according to Islamic rules?
If you read my exchange with him, you can see his response. But I believe anyone who left Islam upon disillusion with the message ought to already know the answer to this question.
Women in traditional Islam can be judges in only women only society or perhaps women only courts. But which society on this earth can one find only women?

What I have gathered after days of investigation traditional Islamic sources is that by virtue of their poor intellect are not considerable for the authority of judge.

Sahih al-Bukhari » Book of Menstrual Periods
Narrated Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri:
Once Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) of `Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."


Empiree: Hijab is subject of discussion here not niqab. Niqab is optional.
What? First, niqab is also part of traditional Islamic law. You keep invoking freedom of religious expression as justification for hijab in the ceremony and now when niqab is mentioned you turn away? Wearing niqab is just as much expression of religious beliefs as is wearing hijab.

Secondly, how do you know niqab is optional? To you it may be optional, but there are others who regard it obligatory. Followers of the Hanbali sunni school of thought consider the niqab obligatory. Are you saying an hanbali woman can be denied her right to wear the niqab where another woman is granted her right to wear hijab?

You see now that there can be no such thing as boundless freedom of religious expression at all places and times, you realize we have to draw the line and define the boundaries for freedom. To you, the niqab fall outside this boundary and that explains why you shrugged off the idea. For another man, the even the hijab fall outside this boundary. Still, you do not hate or habor prejudice for the niqab, this is just your rational opinion. Everyone has a rational opinion. And that is why you can't just jump to conclusion, accusing anyone that disagrees with you of hatred or prejudice.
IslamRe: Beards: A Failure Of Traditional Muslim Men by usermane(op): 4:02am On Dec 31, 2017
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1446701363/DR._AKINTOLA_400x400.jpg

Dr. Ishaq Akintola

This is the president of MURIC, an organization tasked with supporting the rights of traditional Muslims to exercise their faith in Nigeria. But for a man so committed to Muslim rights, for a man demanding hijab be permitted in all secular institutions and Friday be made work free for the sake of Muslims, Mr. Akintola is unable to fulfill his own personal religious obligation to let the beard grow.
IslamRe: Beards: A Failure Of Traditional Muslim Men by usermane(op): 3:02am On Dec 28, 2017
4. Yet again

https://www.jordantimes.com/sites/default/files/styles/news_inner/public/1-Hajj.jpg?itok=pfQXmPR8

Funny enough, some of them here even grew their mustache.
IslamRe: Beards: A Failure Of Traditional Muslim Men by usermane(op):
3. Traditional Muslim pilgrims

https://vid.alarabiya.net/images/2016/09/11/f9c2d3a3-51eb-449c-a254-85c6a66f6dac/f9c2d3a3-51eb-449c-a254-85c6a66f6dac.jpg

Of the multitude, only 7 are bearded, thus again confirming my proposition. At this point, we can safely ask why this is so, why have the ulamas been relatively silent on a matter of fard. Most of the traditionalist scholars I have listened to opined the beard is fard. But aside, when asked about the beard by their audience or listeners in Q&A kind of sessions, most of these scholars seem indifferent about it violation.
IslamRe: Beards: A Failure Of Traditional Muslim Men by usermane(op): 2:20am On Dec 28, 2017
Fundamentalist:
I have noticed for quite some time that you broadcast atheist ideologies but here you are defending fundamental Islam

I'm I wrong
Kinda. You must have mistaken me for someone else. I have only shared Qur'an alone Islam on this site.

Plus in this thread, I am not defending fundamentalist Islam or any Islam. The purpose of the thread is to highlight the reality of cherry-picking doctrines by mainstream Muslims. The community is not as faithful to her laws as members tend to portray
IslamRe: Beards: A Failure Of Traditional Muslim Men by usermane(op): 5:36pm On Dec 27, 2017
Fundamentalist:
You should also accept the same principle they preach since you understand them to be sincere .

Or don't you idolize sincere people
This isn't about me. If you read the intro to the thread, I said I was here to prove a point. That is the Muslim community is not as faithful to her doctrines as members boast. And generally, traditional Muslims will cherry-pick doctrine according to convienence.
IslamRe: Beards: A Failure Of Traditional Muslim Men by usermane(op): 3:23pm On Dec 27, 2017
Fundamentalist:
So what about those that keep beards , what are they ?
Nothing. They keep law. Respectable and sincere of 'em
IslamRe: Beards: A Failure Of Traditional Muslim Men by usermane(op): 1:56pm On Dec 27, 2017
More examples will be added, God willing
IslamRe: Beards: A Failure Of Traditional Muslim Men by usermane(op): 1:49pm On Dec 27, 2017
1. Muslims at Friday congregational prayer

https://www.informationng.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/nigeria-muslims.jpg

Try counting the number of congregants here. So many, yet not even one with beard is identifiable. I've always estimated that 9/10 traditional men do not sport a beard. But seeing this picture above indicate that is an underestimate.

2. Here is another one.

[img]https://foreignpolicymag.files./2017/01/gettyimages-603215700.jpg[/img]

Again, no single one can be spot with beard. There are so many clean shaven and this is too much negligence for even a recommended doctrine.
IslamRe: Beards: A Failure Of Traditional Muslim Men by usermane(op): 1:47pm On Dec 27, 2017
Time to back our claims that traditional Muslims largely fail to keep the doctrine of the beard. Images of traditional Muslims will now be presented.

Disclaimer: I am not saying all traditional Muslim men fail in this doctrine, but I am saying the overwhelming majority fails. And what makes this even worse is relatively reserved stance of the authorities and scholars to overseeing the observation of this doctrine compared to other doctrines.

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