₦airaland Forum

Deep Sight: It is true that the Bible is not inerrant, but in this matter of theism, it contains deep spiritual truths which will be incomprehensible to the atheistic mind.

The Light shineth in the darkness and the darkness comprehendeth not the Light. That is one saying that no atheist can even begin to contemplate. It will take them another lifetime, granted by same Light, to begin to even see the vaguest hint of what this means. Shalom.

Deep Sight: O sire, special, you surely are.

In your ruminations on this matter have you stopped to probe the depths of the human mind as one reference point for discussion? Does it seem to you that this artistic, scientific, emotional, passionate, believing, intellectual and self probing mind that is ours, is the product of the interaction of mindless matter? Does it really?

Sincere answer.

Ah. Ok. I know the standard response to that one. Not acceptable as its an "argument from incredulity."

You might want to reflect on the literal meaning of the word - "in-credible"....

dictionary: in-
3
a prefix of Latin origin, corresponding to English un-, having a negative or privative force, freely used as an English formative, especially of adjectives and their derivatives and of nouns (inattention; indefensible; inexpensive; inorganic; invariable). It assumes the same phonetic phases as in-2. (impartial; immeasurable; illiterate; irregular, etc.). In French, it became en- and thus occurs unfelt in such words as enemy (French ennemi, Latin inimicus, lit., not friendly).

google: cred·i·ble
/ˈkredəbəl/
Adjective

Able to be believed; convincing.
Capable of persuading people that something will happen or be successful: "a credible threat".

Synonyms
believable - trustworthy - plausible - reliable - trusty

google: in·cred·i·ble
/inˈkredəbəl/
Adjective

Impossible to believe: "an incredible tale of triumph".
Difficult to believe; extraordinary: "the noise was incredible".

Synonyms
unbelievable - improbable - fabulous - inconceivable

Deep Sight: Gbam.

trogunn: And of all religious views/books, none comes close to the historically accurate records, scientifically sound views, extremely wise counsel found in the Bible

Deep Sight: After so many years the discussion remains willfully misdirected. The question is the existence of A creator. By whatever misconceived name or rendered with whatever misconceived attributes. The philosophical necessity of a prime mover. That is the question.

As such, questions on this or that god are misfooted and meaningless. It beats me that Mazaje could fail to grasp this simple point for several years now.

TroGunn: The question is, what do the facts show?

When you look at the universe, it overwhelmingly shouts design, laws, intelligence. Design, Law, Intelligence points to a living being. Simple.

All the non-god explanation of the origin of universe, origin of life and speciation are nothing more than fantastic, imaginative nonsense - not consistent with known facts.

The evidence consistently point to the origin of the universe requiring an Originator - it had a beginning, it's a marvel of order and precise laws. A Beginner and Law-giver seems the logical conclusion.

The evidence consistently point to origin of life requiring an intelligent Originator - even the most basic life form is a marvel of complexity and design. True, living things have basic building blocks, but combining these blocks in the right order by uncoordinated forces of "nature" to create a protein or a nucleic acid, not to mention a living self-replicating organism has severally been shown to be a mathematical impossibility. The fact that it's taking painstaking human effort, deep research into existing proteins, great intelligence and millions of dollars in precise labs and equipment in the attempts to only create synthetic proteins from amino acids tilts toward one sure conclusion - the vastly and insanely more complex living things around us were created by an Intelligent Being.

Speciation or origin of different species/life forms continue to befuddle those who assert evolution as the reason we have different species. Nothing is more factual than real fossils and they consistently show living things unchanged over time. They just don't evolve. Fishes stay like fishes, monkeys remain monkeys, birds remain birds. It's known that over 90% of fossils show unchanged organisms over time. The remaining <10% is inconclusive - likely extinct species. If life forms evolved, we'd see many intermediate life forms as fossils. But the fossil evidence points to one conclusion - variety of species started relatively abruptly (Cambrian Explosion) such that creation is the more logical explanation.

The reason for atheism is understandable - largely to blame are frankly stupid religious teachings/practices and the presence of evil/suffering. But atheism still is the much weaker, less logical, completely-opposed-to-observable-fact position, when compare to believing in Intelligent Creator. Definitely requires more blind faith to be an atheist than to believe in an Intelligent Creator.

And of all religious views/books, none comes close to the historically accurate records, scientifically sound views, extremely wise counsel found in the Bible - giving good reasons to believe it's from the universe's Intelligent Creator.

FOLYKAZE: I met lot of people on this forum and the person I can see thats reasonable is Uyi-iredia.

mazaje: Do you believe that the god Zeus exist?. . .What about the goddess Shiva does she exist and created the universe and many Hindus claim?. . .

aManFromMars:

@weigraf: Is your sig for real?

italo: @ wiegraf,

As usual, you dont know the topic of discussion.

OLAADEGBU: You atheists think alike. Read this conversation between an atheist and a Christian and see the answer to your question.

David Estes Said: "I wouldn't have a problem with Hell if we were punished in proportion to how we hurt others. But eternity in a lake of fire is way beyond that."

Ray: My advice would be to get right with God, then try and work out the concept of what the Bible calls “eternal punishment.” There are certain facts of which you are probably not aware and so they are not entering the equation--such as the absolute holiness of God (a concept beyond human understanding), and that “sin” isn’t primarily about hurting others. When we sin we violate God’s moral Law (the Ten Commandments) and sin against a morally perfect Creator. You are also probably not bringing the withdrawal of the dimension of time into your reckoning. In eternity, time will be withdrawn. It won’t exist. Such a state is beyond our comprehension.

OLAADEGBU: If I rejected a belief in gravity because I thought it was overly harsh (it has killed millions), it doesn’t change its reality. The reality is that death exists, and the Scriptures warn that if you die in your sins you will be justly damned. You will end up in God’s prison, without parole. However, He is rich in mercy and offers you forgiveness. Take it before it’s too late. Repent of your sins and trust alone in Jesus, and you will know the truth and the truth will make you free.

Watch Evolution Vs God Free -> http:///19l86Ea

FOLYKAZE: Here we go with strawmanning. How many time am I going to tell you that everything in nature is super enough?



nothing like cannot or impossiblities in revealing answer to scientific questions. I agree with if you say they are not yet answered. Moreover, I didn't say it supernatural. It a natural phenomena.



Here we go....you asked about how I will gauge my evidence. I gave you two logical slots and back it with reason showing the contradiction and incoherency in what christians says. You want me to post whole world here?

OLAADEGBU: Was that because I mentioned the "H" word?

FOLYKAZE: I now see you are specific. Right, I dont believe in any Abrahamic God. So if anybody come to my doorstep and tell me he is God, logic and reason will be employed here.

The bible and christians claimed he is omnipresent and omnipotent, let check through their claim.

Omnipresency theory shred him immediately when he appears in my room. He is supposed to be everywhere at once and which mean doesn't have the ability if he possess this omnipresency to move from one place to another....therefore he is not omnipotent.

If he deny any of these, then he is not God

Two shot.....

FOLYKAZE: Because it a joke. Could be self-esteem.....or drama. Lol


Can you answer my question. What is God? What concept of God are you refering to?

FOLYKAZE: I see that as joke.

FOLYKAZE: Erm....what is God? Fela is my God....he existed. Wrong?

This will only stop if you take your time to read through that link I gave you....by then, I will know where to drive at

Chibuebem: why isn't the video link working again?

It's a shame this thread was ignored

FOLYKAZE: Thanks for your question. Let me quickly make you guys understand that the term God mean different thing to different people. I opened a thread about this some days ago as it cause problem and makes it very hard for argument to run smoothly.....more like atheist arguing with pantheist on God. We all know atheist disbelief in God but pantheist believe in God....however, God to pantheist is universe. So will atheist says he doesn't believe in universe? I think you can see how problematic conflict the term 'God' cause in different conception. Read about Concept of God and atheism here.

I dont believe in God the creator of world, the ruler and maker of world, the humanic nature God (laugh, angry, walk, talk, live, die, sit, rest and depicted with human character), omnis and other religious attribute this being can have. It lie and product of mind.
Though...I agree with some people here that says God is the totality of force and energy in the universe. It mean you, I and other things in the nature are God. Also if by saying God, you could mean admiration, respect and thing thats due for honour.....like I will say, fela is my god/deity. I dont worship fela but love, admire, and honour his concept, philosophy, and style of life. I see fela as God but not as creator of the world or ruler of the world. Im not bowing down to his image or calling on people to worship him. I just admire his ways and that made him my God.

Eledumare = El' (body) + Odu (intelligence/conscious) + mare (infinity) which mean the body of infinite intelligence/consciousness. So Eledumare is totality of forces, energies and all that therein in the universe. No skydaddy attached to this. Eledumare is universe itself. I dont need to believe in Eledumare as a god.....it universe and we human are microcosm of the whole. I am God, you are God, we are God and everything is the universe is conscious so they are Gods. I dont need to believe I exist, I know that im existing. Within the body of God, all things, both abstract and concrete, are cells. Each and every animal, vegetable, mineral, thought, feeling, idea, emotion and concept has its own ashe (energy) and therefore contributes to the whole that is Eledumare.

Orisa = Ori (consciousness) + sa (selected) which mean selected consciousness among the infinite consciousness....ELEDUMARE. The theist usually think Orisa means deity so Ogun is one humanoid that suck blood. Nope....these are just form of consciousness.

Certain constellations of energies bear within their structure an assortment of related cells that together create a force of divinity called an Orisha, which can be best defined as a facet of God. Each of these constellations of energies, while made up of many different individual components, has its own, for lack of a better word, personality.

Therefore, God to me is a plural legion of higher intelligence that are not necessarily outside us but a part of the matrix of energy, the brightest amongst us assume esoteric mandate to join the legion of GOD.
In the begining was the word (audio-sound energy), and the word was God: Energy is God, God is energy.
Since God is Energy, it therefore means God can not be destroyed but converted from one form to another. Therefore Energy is God.
Since Energy can be converted from one form to another, it therefore means, that the totality of all that there is in the universe is called GOD.
God means all that there is, including you and I. So, do not look out there to God, you are a part of it. Little wonder the bible says, Ye are Gods and children of most high. Meaning you are the microcosm of the whole.

The mistake theist and some atheist made arose when attributing sex and human nature (laugh, angry, talking, thinking, walking, fighting, hatred, etc) to God. Some will say God is masculine and believe he is humanlike. This is work of mind in action.
Everything in nature is God. Stone, Animal, water, trees, magnetic force, energies....everything is God. My body is God in the sense of functionality of each of it. I see the reason some respect and honour head, some bosom, some private part and among yoruba traditionalist, they honour toes. Some people are my God and im God to others. The totality of the universe can be said to be the GOD.

striktlymi: Anyways, though the video seem cut at a point but I believe, from the conversations they had with the lady, her crime was that she was suspected of being an Atheist.

Ishilove: Is this not the same video of lady that was beheaded because she was suspected of being an SSS informant?

FOLYKAZE: The memory of what happened to me in Ekiti is still fresh, I had an argument with a friend who claimed the quran is holy and nothing bad can happen to it. During the evening, I get a match box and held straight to this guy hostel. I took his quran and some little kerosene from his room and set the quran on fire. Mehn it burn but the mistake I did and will never do again is that I called the attention of others toward this quran burning test. I received serious beating from those that took it as crime. It was the help of my good friend and those heartful folks around that escaped me from the hell.

I learnt my lesson from there to respect other beliefs. Respect and patience brings tolerance and love. You cant because you are atheist then should go to mecca and tell them mohamed is a criminal and Allah doesn't exist. You cant go to vatican and pour urine on mary's statues. What ever happen to you from there should be blame on your very self.

There are religious folk who can reason with you and others take thing personal. Let your opinion out when asked for or necessary....it not that you go on public and rant that some God/gods dont exist and those believing it are dumb or ignorant. Like I said before, there are many way we can pass across our decision. Some of your friends can tell that 'you are mad boy' without taking it person but person from nowhere cant just tell you that.

The tongue is double edge sword they say.....it kills and protect. Learn to respect others.

Chibuebem: I'm not a fan of terrorist islam, but do you still argue this evening?
Go and examine the life of Jesus, the head of the church. And speak against him. He is the base and foundation of God's true church.

But honestly wiegraf, have you ever been in an area of crisis, religious crisis? Have you ever experienced it?

FOLYKAZE: I dont think am arguing here. Just dropping my opinion.

Atheist doesn't have the right to insult people's belief. My parents are christians and that doesn't make me insult christ or Jehovah before them.

There are many ways of passing across your mind. There are many way you can argue your point without insulting or hurting others opinion. We need to consider time, location and person we are addressing.

Not that I really support the killing of that gal. I know such act is evil and brutal. Im just trying to tell atheist that we can bypass such shot on us only if we learn to handle others people belief with respect.

mazaje: Why am i unable to view the video?. . .

striktlymi: For starters there is a need to put a stop to the anti-Atheist posts we have in the religion section because it serves no purpose but help this growing hatred.