₦airaland Forum

wirinet:
Fallacy. There is no evidence whatsoever that the God you adopted from your slavemasters or colonial masters created anybody.
My life is mine and mine only, when I die, I die and my body is given up to the earth to be raw materials for other lives.

Okay, of what good is it when you've spent your life on earth fighting God, die only to be used as plant manure to grow trees, those trees are cut and used to make sheets of paper, and Bible verses printed on such paper.
You've lost before you even started.

dalaman:
God doesn't kill because he is imaginary in reality. But in the pages of story books like the bible we have him killing people and boasting that he killed them all alone without help from anyone.

" I have been treading the winepress alone; no one was there to help me. In my anger I have trampled my enemies as if they were grapes. In my fury I have trampled my foes. Their blood has stained my clothes "- Isaiah 63:3

See your murderous God in action killing people and gloating that he did it alone with nobody's help. He is even saying that the people's blood stained his cloth. So your God wears cloths. Luckily thos God idea remains the fictious imagination of the writer.

That was a vision of the prophet. Were are the people in question?

HCpaul:
But by the time humanity will dominate Mars, religion will become territorially limited to earth domain.

Ok, why not wait till then.

HCpaul:
Let us give the guy a chance to keep derailing the philosophy behind science by amalgamating religion with science.

I'm not amalgamating nothing, real scientists are. No one month old atheists screaming science and sanity upandan.

quote author=HCpaul post=48513274]

If only we can figuratively see science as a human being, Christians will be amazed to realize that science ain't a believer but a pure and first-class atheist.[/quote]What is wrong with you? Why do you say these things?

KingEbukasBlog:
The best responses are from winner01 and 4kings . I still don't get why uncle s.eun likes involving himself in these arguments . His "points EASILY get refuted . Its so easy that I just want to see his response so we would intellectually destroy them . . And he keeps saying the same things all over again , so it gets easier every damn time .

@OP You can only find answers with Christ . Atheism is false and hopeless . Check out winner01 's threads for evidence

Peace .

lol.
Atheist and hopelessness are synonymous. lol.
Thanks Bro.

TheSixthSense:
Your testimony just made my day. You found Jesus without a doubt. Key word you used just 'Seek God' God bless your older brother for that. Just keep following, I've found most times people reject Christ because they're already in bondage to sin but they're unaware. you've also inspired me. God bless you mightily.

About Nigerian churches, read Rom 1:18-19 and also the wheat and tares parable of Jesus. God is just, He knows.
Thanks for your post.

Thanks Bro. The old me is dead and buried forever. My new life in Christ Jesus is the real deal.

This pic below describes the issue with Nigerian churches.

4everGod:
Nuff said. Nothing to add! Nothing to remove. My General I salute you.

Thanks my fellow General. God bless you.

Joshuabase:
. . And he compared human life to a phone, I guess that's expected from a follower of a murderer. Psychopathic serial killers usually refer to their victims as lower life forms and insignificant - thats how they justify killing them. Congratulations, you just did the same.

Actually, the difference between atheists and Christians is that atheists don't justify murder, especially infanticide.

Humans created phones, God created man. Why is it difficult for you to see that God is not a man. The life you have is not yours, you'll give it back someday.

The infants you are crying for are enjoying themselves with their maker so what will you do now? Arrest God?

Seun:
It's difficult to justify intelligent design rationally. What intelligent designer creates billions of stars just so that he can create life on a single planet revolving around one of the stars? What intelligent designer creates a nerve that travels from a giraffe's brain to its chest and back to it's throat - a distance of several meters - instead of just connecting it directly? Which intelligent designer designs ugly, horrible diseases? It's difficult to justify intelligent design rationally if you know the basics of evolution and cosmology. It's absolutely hilarious, frankly.

I believe that saying "I dont know" is far better than calling things you dont understand needless.

Look what Stephen Hawkin said: "Many people do not like the idea that time has a beginning, probably because it smacks of divine intervention. "

If time had a beginning, then whatever brought time into existence is timeless (eternal). No beginning, no end. It actually might be divine intervention, and if it is, then it changes everything.

Seun:
You cannot logically prove to me the non-existence of a super-hero, yet you would consider me crazy if I told you that I met Superman last night. Atheists don't necessarily have a strong belief in the non-existence of God, just as you don't have a strong belief in the non-existence of super heroes. We just think it is illogical to believe in any God unless there is good evidence that the God in question actually exists, just as you wouldn't believe that super-heroes are real and I met one unless I presented you with some really strong evidence to support my claim.

You missed it. Atheism is lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. You addition of "until evidence is provided" suits agnosticism than atheism. If you lack a belief in something ordinarily you should move on with your life. But if you will propose this position to people, then be ready to give the sort of evidence you request from theists. Especially considering the fact that "Belief in a form of Creator" is the default position.

Seun:
Atheism actually doesn't need to make the society a better place. I don't believe things because I think believing them will make the society better. I believe things because I have good reasons to believe that they are in fact, true. For example, I believe that the sky is blue. Because when I look at the sky, it's blue. When I take pictures of the sky, it's blue in those pictures. Whether it makes the world a better place or not is completely irrelevant to the fact that the sky is blue. I can see it, other people can see it, and it's clearly blue. End of story. Full stop.

This is wrong. You are what you believe and there are consequences for many of what we believe. A belief in God gives the vast majority of people values, morals, purposes etc. What you dont understand is that a belief or disbelief in God means everything to everyone. Maybe you think you can tell people what to do or what not to do, i'm at loss on why you think people should listen to what other people tell them to do. If everyone will do what they wanna do with the few years they have in existence, then you havent seen chaos. Believe it or not, some people want to shoot randomly in a mall or crack peoples heads open for fun, and why shouldnt they? Because its wrong? Says who? Seun Osewa?

Trust me, its unreasonable for you to stop people from doing what they want if the universe cares nothing about what you do or dont do.
Belief in an All seeing Judge is not a trivial issue my brother.

Seun:
Where the value of atheism lies is that it allows you to employ critical thinking in every area of your life. If you're religious, there are some thoughts you cannot engage in because they contradict your religious beliefs. You are constantly shielding yourself from any knowledge that contradicts the holy dogma you subscribe to. You're required to accept some highly illogical ideas because they are written in holy books. Even if rationally you know those ideas are wrong, you have to engage in disingenuous mental gymnastics to justify them. When you become an atheist, that enormous mental burden is lifted from your shoulders. Everything in your life suddenly makes perfect sense. You're free!.

Just what are the thoughts you cant engage in as a religious person?

How about people who religion has liberated from social vices?

And you speak of illogical ideas? The foundation of anything is important. People will continue to believe in these so called "illogical" till you can provide a "logical" and coherent origin and reason for their existence.

Seun:
What I want people to embrace is not atheism per se, but reality. If most people in society are making decisions based on reality, they will make better decisions, and society will move forward collectively as a result of that. You won't have things like women dressing like ninjas under the hot desert sun; little girls fainting from the heat and still being forced to keep their ninja attires on. Children being called witches.

Reality has continued to prove that every item we see is intelligently designed, the same way you intelligently designed nairaland.
Reality has proved that life is not merely physical or material, otherwise we would have been able to resolve the problem of death physically.
Reality has continued to prove that humans are naturally configured to "believe".
Reality is a strong word bro, i do not think it means what I think you mean.

mekkfreshboy:
My mind is often stimulated when I peruse through arguments and discussion threads by Atheist aimed against Theists for instance like the ones created by the founder of Nairaland Seun. As rational and plausible such arguments may sound I think the Atheists got it wrong in several ways on issues that has to do with the Divine/Supernatural. I follow the Jewish religion/tradition and while I may believe in a Divine and Eternal creator I still consider myself a bit of a rationalist. I believe that most of human problems are mechanistic and can be fixed by humans. My idea of G-d/God is on certain level different from those of the people around me ( I reside in Southern Nigeria). I am usually skeptical of paranormal activities (miracles) purported by prominent self acclaimed pastors/imams/priests in Nigeria.

It is perfectly rational to believe in the existence of an Almighty Creator. Every Single item in our world was intelkigently designed. In reality, time and chance does not create anything. Atheists got it wrong in the most basic way: "If the universe has no meaning or reason for existing, we should never have found out that it has no meaning".

mekkfreshboy:
There is religious and cultural diversity and systems of thinking in the world today. Atheism in itself is just one of those systems of thinking. There are countless Scientists who are Theists and some that are Atheist for example Albert Einstein, and we also have materialists who were Theist and non Theists. There are Atheists called Anarchist who reject any form of authority. Atheist does not amount to intellectualism and rationalism, I have come across some learned and brilliant Atheists and Theist but there are still countless ignorant Theist and non Theism out there.

Atheism is not a system of thinking, it is a "lack of belief", at least as the atheists claim. It has nothing to do with rational thinking. Theists ushered in the very rational thinking that atheists seek to be affiliated with. Rene Descateres was the first mordern rationalist, Sir Francis Bacon (the founder
of applied science) inspired the mordern scientific attitude that favours skepticism, systematic observation and verification of
claims by independent empirical observations, and many other theists. The fact that critical thinking is parroted by atheists severally does not make it so.

mekkfreshboy:
I believe that the primary aim of religion or any system of thinking is to contribute in making the world a better place for man to live and co-exist peacefully in. Any Religion or system of thought that encourages violence, extortion, crime, moral decadence etc is fraud.

Religion has almost all the moral structures all over the world built around it, it is also not a system of thinking as you put it, it is the internal realization of more permanent values. Religion can be used for anything ranginging from peace to violence, just the same way politics, entertainment etc can be used for the same purposes. It is easier to get rid of the latter than religion. Religion is a part of humanity.

mekkfreshboy:
There is diversity in Atheism just like we have in religion. I believe in making the world a better place and I practice religious tolerance. I love humanity and I try to do what is right and decent, my philosophy is “ what is hateful to you do not do it others”.

Good philisophy, it also stems from religion. The problem with atheism is the lack of basis for morality. Seun was talking about scholars who were working on ways to acheive better human relationship but failed to give reasons why people should listen to fellow humans. Not everyone wants to "live and let live", how do you handle such people?.
The power of religion can never be estimated and that is why it will continue to grow.

mekkfreshboy:
I believe in Intelligent Design, that there exist a reality higher and greater than oneself. I have weighed the Atheist lack of believe in a Divine Creator and found certain flaws in it. They cannot logically prove to me the non-existence of a Divine creator.

Intelligent Design is the default position. Everything we see in actuality is intelligently designed even when we do not know their designers. Those who blame the "flaws" in nature exhibit infinite knowledge i.e I do not know why this was created and so its a flaw. Its like doing the same thing they accuse theists for i.e I do not know how the universe got here but God must have created it. The only difference is that one position makes more sense than the other.
If i'm presented with a car engine, i may not know why it looks so dirty and oily or even the functions of certain parts, but it would be irrational to call it useless. On the other hand, If I'm presented with the same car engine, it would be irrational for me to say it came to existence by time or chance or accident or probability or fission of older metals etc.
Intelligent design is the default position, if atheists will convince the world otherwise, the must provide evidence, and it wont be some half-baked assumptions, fantasy or wild guesses backed by zero evidence.

mekkfreshboy:
I oppose religious extremism but my QUESTION remains “Is Atheism the way forward? How exactly can lack of belief in a Divine creator add meaning to your life and make the society a better place. What exactly do Nigerian Atheist believe in?

Every normal person opposes extremism. Atheism is not the way forward. Atheists themselves cannot tell you what atheism has to offer. The best they can do is to side with irreligion, science etc.
History has shown that when you believe that religion is a disease that must be cured, there are extremism tendencies. Religion is a part of humanity. To seperate man from religion, you must be willing to exterminate in democidal quantities. (you can check some of my topics for proof.) Atheists are only angry that they are minority, and their number has been predicted to even fall over the next 50 years.

mekkfreshboy:
Atheists in the House should please enlighten me. Thanks

Be careful who you call on to "enlighten" you, for a blind person may not recognize the direction of light.

4everGod:
Dude do you want to convince him to return like Messi returned to their national team? He says that is his last post here on NL and i trust he will honor it.

Send him a pm if you wish to discuss further with him. You are a good guy Ranchhoddas..you just need to find a sure footing. I hail!

Ranchhoddas loves arguments, ive noticed. I bet he's sad that his comrade has left the battle field.

TheSixthSense, I praise God for your life. I've also been in such a situation. I stem from an islamic background and later professed Christ (after someone preached to me) even though I didnt even know what I was into. I sought to know the reality of the scriptures. Nigerian churches were not helping matters. During my service year, I had to stop going to church because the preaching and testimonies and even seats were clear show off, no single regard for the poor and needy. They had few churches around and most were the same. I remember my older brother who had just got converted telling me to just seek God and keep an open mind. I had told him earlier that i'm okay and I live a good life, I didnt need anybody to tell me what to do.
I didnt want to be affliated with religion or even atheism. I just wanted to be that free intelligent and self-reliant human. My parents also encouraged freedom of religion so that made it easy.

I "enjoyed" my life to the fullest. What we call enjoyment is actually killing us. I lost 2 of my friends to alcohol. One drowned while drunk, the other died while driving him to the hospital. I remember we had an accident while coming back from a club in lagos, the car summersaulted from overspeeding, no one was injured, we all got down laughing at our drunk friends who drove.

Recently one of my very close friends called me to tell me that she does not have a womb anymore. Do I need to talk about my battle with glaucoma. Most of the friends that I had are either addicts of alcohol, marijuana e.t.c. So I smile when atheists are telling me to enjoy my life. I actually live a better life right now than the sick, unrestrained and devil controlled life I've lived as a young man. I've noticed that the devil is in control of most of the lives of those people who think they are directing themselves.

My being sober still did not lead me to Christ, an ex-cultist made me see the world for what it really is. A man who was active in a spiritual realm controlled by demons started to tell me the inner workings of such government. I started to think to myself "are these things real?"...

Bros, lemme just stop here. I've seen things in this life. I'm more than convinced that Jesus is Lord. Maybe I should just open a thread on why I am a Christian.

Topgainer:
Excuse me Mr Winners, when you had the name and designation of the 'Bishop' who assaulted/slapped a lady for insulting 'Jesus' I hope you informed the head quarters that one of its ordained Bishops have gone rogue. Are you aware that the Bishop employed the services of top lawyers when the family of the lady and the Nigeria public challenged such brazen show of 'I am bigger/richer/more connected than you'
My friend don't be a hypocrite.

The culture of arrogance, violence, materialism and making mockery of Christ has a firm grip on the throat of most Pentecostal groups today. That should be challenged and condemned in honesty

I'm not supporting violence or anything. I'm against atheists who think the cure for violence is atheism. I'm against atheists who seize the slightest oppoirtunity to defame christianity.
I'd care less if they just preached atheism.

ValentineMary:
The precher is not yet mature in faith. The christians of the middle ages killed muslims and jews because they failed to convert.

And Winner01 claiming science and religion are the same pls can u explain that statement or rather reconcile the biblical verse that birds are bat (Deut 14: 11-18) to science. Let us start from there. Am tired of ur ranting.

How about atheists in the 20th century who killed 70 times more than all religious groups ever in just a short time because they hated God and religion and seized the oppourtunity to actualize their unrealistic dreams.?

https://www.nairaland.com/3232176/atheist-presidents-heads-state-quick

https://www.nairaland.com/3176513/atheist-murderers-past-present-murderous

https://www.nairaland.com/2988881/atheism-terrorism-annihilation-quest-atheistic

You should be tired cos according to you, the universe does not care if birds are bats or poultry. So why does it matter.
I'm not even ready to discuss the Bible with you cos you'll get your ass kicked as always?

HCpaul:
I am not surprised cuz he is actually portraying the footsteps of his mentor.

His father GO once slap a small girl on the alter and he is still claiming that he was right. His fellow pastors keep defending that trash in church and the deluded congregations accepted it as a right thing to do.

We atheist just need to be more innovative in science so as to equip ourselves with more self-defense ammunition cuz majority of Nigerians are not ready to abandon religion and are ready to harm us with their emotional display and arrogance.

Apart from renouncing theism, let us create a community that will improve science in Nigeria and promote real invention and innovation. An invention that will be technologically based on scientific exploits and an artwork of creativity.

We should assume responsibility that the destiny of this primitive country is in our hand and to make it glorious rely on our decisions.

Let this community have more passion for science, innovation, autodidactism, multi-disciplinarity (polymath), technology, philosophy and knowledge.

Our success will make primitive men to drop their religion and delusion to join the community of the sane.


Am not deviating the thread just that irrational act like this can only be cured by reason and an environment that accommodate all the aforementioned intellectual facilities.

Why didnt you cure these ones of their delusions?
You became an atheist barely a month ago and you're already shouting science and sanity. If real scientists were like you, we will still be in the stone ages.
You better go to school and become useful for yourself and your family if not for the world.



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Joshuabase:
The bolded is self contradictory, the character God himself is a murderer and a genocidal maniac, I find it hard to believe that his followers would be any different.

What people do in the name of religion these days don't even surprise me anymore.

Exhibit A

https://www.nairaland.com/3287640/popular-pastor-kills-church-member

If you have ever sold your phone or destroyed it, then you are corrupt and heartless too. Hear how that sounds?
Stupid right?, cos its a created phone. Same as you, you are a created human.

God takes what creates, humans take what they cant create. God is not the man you have created in your brains. The word murder is means for humans, non-humans e.g animals dont murder? God is also not human.
Many of the souls you are crying for are back in their Creator's abode, why not save yourself?

Cry till you kpai, we will always believe in the Creator of the heavens and the earth.

dalaman:
Shut up. Just the way ISIS and BH are also judges right? Delivered them from captors or land grabbers and theives? If we are to go by your pathetic reasoning we can as well conclude that Moa was also a judge who also wanted to keep people in line who saw his people through a difficult time. In fact he is still honoured and revered in China till tomorrow. It's funny and pathetic that you accuse others of genocide and then use this elusive God idea of yours who you claim is the epitome of all morality to justify genocide. Pathetic.

Very angry fellow. God does not kill because he is not a man.

KingOfAmebo:
The more you apply logic into the things of God the more foolish you become. Same reason God warned Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil... knowledge is so powerful that it can make you question your maker of his existence. Look around you most people that don't believe in God are the smartest and knowledgeable people in our society, scientists and technologists. They try to prove theories with their knowledge and even looking for mistakes in the Bible forgetting the Bible is not a novel but a book that is read with spiritual discernment.

You may have a point, but the Bible also encourages us to exercise the power of reason. Isaiah 1:18.

hopefulLandlord:
That kinda "hope" has its disadvantages bro but I understand you

Just what are the disadvantages?

braithwaite:

Cant laugh..no reason to argue on this..


Most theists do. No one tells me what to do except my Creator cos I didnt come here on my own. You people who think you created yourselves or chance created you cant tell us what or how not to think, cos the universe does not care what you think.

Atheists are just like you theists, some of us are nice, some are really nice, some of us are not so nice and some are just silly wankers It's not because they're atheists though, it's because they're people. In every demographic, the negative elements can be loud, so it's easy to see the whole group in a negative light because of the bad attitudes of a few.

Winner01 comparing how you think with mine is far too lame..you know why? YOUR THINKING HAS LIMITS... MINE DOESN'T ...you think what you're accustomed to,and youre bn bind by faith and all...WE THINK OUTSIDE THOSE SCHEMES..

And do get this,As a matter of fact, it usually requires quite the humbling and sobering epiphany to cause one to remit ones claims to know of the existence of a god. however, this doesnt mean that all theist don't think.. they do, but they seems to turned back form the reality and still get stucked with that word FAITH..

Pls THINK

Can you explain how my thinking has limits?
Out thinking box is not limited to material universe alone. I think atheists are angry because their worldview is limited to the material, thats why they try to invite us to such closed box by tellung us constantly that "all we have is here and now".... I'm sorry, but we dont wanna be reduced to such.

Most people who discovered the fields of science you all wanna hijack were thinking outside your box, they were theists.

so what exactly do you people want?

KingEbukasBlog:
Lolz .... There is no proof this story is true

They will want it to be true. If it was a miracle news, they'll mock the poster and say the link is not credible.

braithwaite:


Is it a crime to think for yourself without someone/somebook reference?

I think far better than you. Most theists do. No one tells me what to do except my Creator cos I didnt come here on my own. You people who think you created yourselves or chance created you cant tell us what or how not to think, cos the universe does not care what you think.

raphieMontella:
no according to ur bible god can..nd science cant..theres a place which said smtin like that..
After all metusalah is the guiness book world record holder for longest years(almost a millenium lol)...so if metusaleh can do it..god can do it for u..ask him for that...

in those days how many unreligious persons were they?
When did man pick up courage to start questioning dogma?
The tin is that religions(mainly christians) like to be faster than their shadows..thats how u'd expect a scientist to create a planet or a sun for u in the lab jst because they have observed how it forms..time will tell

the loss in on u to pray to god to create horses that can fly into space..he did it alot in the bible...and that u shud stop using ur phone to make calls etc lest u worship science...since if u believe in god u dnt need to use ur phone..all u need to do is pray nd the thread u want to create will magically create on nairaland..
He can do it..he made a snake talk..remember?
#delusion

All the techonological gadgets you are screaming was motivated by theists.

Which place in the bible confirms your first paragraph.
You people should just keep crying angrily, religion has been attacked since the 14th century and been predicted to die off even before the16th century. This is the 21st century and more than 3/4 of the worlds population is still religious, and the number has been predicted to increase over the next 70 years. Seems to me like you will be crying for a really long time.

HCpaul:
By the time humanity will dominate Mars, religion will be a thing of the past, the past delusion and the ignorance of the earth. No sane people will carry religion to Mars..

Then chill your hungry nerves till then.

kobosmalls:
So there could be 3 possibilities right?
So the bible was fuzzy on that one.
Now if they didn't see him how come they ate and drank?
Or you skipped that part.
Please tell me.

The Bible was not fuzzy on that one, i dont have a unifying answer because I dont know everything and neither do you.

The Bible did not say they ate and drank with God.
I dont know what you're driving at.

leksy07:
religions causes most of the problem we have in this country

Says the poster of this thread. Can we have the name and designation of the "preacher" so we can inform the head quarters that one of its ordained pastors have gone rogue.
Cos na only Nairaland we dey see pastor this, pastor that.

Even if na self professed christian wey nor dey attend church, they go say na pastor cos obviously na front page things.

E neva do the pastor, she should look for more followers and proclaim a jihad on islamic people in Nigeria.

We are Christ-ians, people who wanna be like Christ not pastors.

Joshuabase:
Where's winner01 and his rants about atheists harassing people?
I'm still yet to see a topic about a modern day atheist killing /assaulting people in the name of atheism.
How can you claim that religion is good, when so much evil is done in its name?

If it was a miracle news, you people would be asking for the credibility of the blog and the poster and it will never make fp. Its not new.


If you are apprehended for murder today, you'll still say it's the work of the devil. If they ask people about you, those ones go say they know you to be a strong chrstian since you go to church with them and didnt proclaim your atheism openly to them. Hungry bloggers go get your story, change your name to pastor and post. Food don done for them be that.

If you fear God, you'll revere human life.

KingEbukasBlog:
I don't bother replying him , whenever I see that he mentioned me , I just skip his post to the next mention without reading his post . I can't waste my time reading trash

The annoying thing is that his posts are long and empty.

hopefulLandlord:
We are arguably the most religious country in the world, you and I can't argue that religion has influence in almost every sector in Nigeria

Or did they call us most religious for nothing?

Georgia, Armenia, Thailand, Yemen, Indonesia, Srilanka, e.t.c are more religious than Nigeria.
Those promoting such lies are atheists who have the internet at their disposal.

Just as the lady in the op said, you cant take away hope for a better tomorrow where people are suffering.
Other countries have reasons for being religious, many religious countries have prospered.
Africa has its own problem. You people cant capitalize on that. There is no single study that shows the correllation between atheism and development. All you have are assumptiins and speculations. Ive posted several studies showing links between religiousity and positivity, post yours and prove us wrong (scientifically).

4everGod:
we dont need that T shirt here in Naija. 95% of Nigerians do not even know what Atheism is

Lol, na so sef.

Its like giving credence to unimportance.

braithwaite:

What they aren't...

Explain that abeg

They arent Christians. If I said atheists, they'll say atheism is not a thing, but a lack of something.
Why do they want to encourage us to lack what they lack?
Who lack epp?

HCpaul:
That country that you laughed in aren't like us and their progress cannot br underestimated.

Nigerian has been trying the religious way to solve their problems and yet nothing happen. Let us attempt the atheistic way to solve it and fully see the positive attributes attached to atheism.

Or should we keep promoting the same failure by invoking the same solution that doesn't actually work?

This guy, you just say some long nonsense without thinking . Dont you have anything in your head.
How is Nigeria trying the religious way