₦airaland Forum

I am ashamed of nigerian Christians, they take bigotry, hypocrisy and intolerance to another level. The same Christian supporting this apartheid like action because it was perpetuated by a Christian MOG would show unrestricted anger and condemnation when the Muslims expel (albeit violently) non believers from bars, brothels and even their state.

The nigerian constitution clearly forbids discrimination based on tribe, sex, religion or class. But our thieving and clueless leaders prefer political correctness than uphold the constitution they swore to uphold.

It is very wrong to expel students from a school or university because the refuse to attend a religious service, it is even worse to deny admission based on religious grounds. Then all other services in Nigeria whether private or public should provided based on religious inclination.

Then Christians have no moral obligation to condemn the introduction of sharia in northern Nigeria, and the expulsion of Christians from the north.

Nobody is quarrelling with the university instiling Christian values on students, but Christian values does not include attending Oyedepo's sermons and real CHRISTIAN VALUES is universal and is not exclusive to Christianity. Christ did not only associate or provide service (preaching and healing) to only believers.

davidylan: Jesus does have the capacity to change a man from the inside. It is true bro. Happy new year to you and yours as well and it is my prayer that you will find the truth of the gospel of Christ soonest.

Thanks. I know the truth about the gospel of Christ already, it preaches unconditional love for neighbour and other humans irrespective of race, religion or political views. It emphasises empathy for the less privileged and most of all it promotes contentment and peace within our soul. It is the Christians who preach hatred, intolerance and unbridled accumulation of wealth in the name of Christianity that needs to accept the gospel of Christ.

Have to go now. Wil be back later.

TroGunn: Who is saying that study of fossils equates evolution? The point being made is that if evolution is truly the process through which we now have diferrent species as opposed to creation, then the fossil record should support that theory. Overall, study of fossils show fully formed species virtually "exploding" into existence and remaining largely unchanged over time - a big challenge to evolution theory.

please provide a source that supports the spontaneous explosion of species into existence. I mean a scientific source and not some warped creationist website. Does your source prove that we have land animals in the cambrian period? That evidence would be truly earth shattering.

Enigma: Going back to one of the comments and the claim that "majority of the general population" in Europe etc "understands and accepts" evolution: I think this is at least an overstatement if not indeed an inaccuracy. It is true that people at the GCE/Secondary level of education generally "accept" what they are taught without critical thought; that does not however mean that they "understand" it or really recognise it to be true beyond that they they were told it is.

On another thread currently there is a somewhat amusing disussion whether the big ban.g involved an explosion or not. However, see an example of an explanation at a level for the "general population".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/science/ocr_gateway/energy_resources/big_bangrev1.shtml



Can we therefore extrapolate from that that the majority of the general population in the UK understands and accepts the big ban.g theory?

The so-called "religionists" are in fact correct when they say that majority of those who accept what the so-called scientists say on things like evolution etc simply do so on faith; not on knowledge, understanding or proof.

Your assertions are not exactly accurate. Although it can sometimes be true that people accept some subjects, theories or doctrines based on inpartation through the learning process, but in the case of most scientific theories, this is not correct. Apart from scientific theories passing through the vigorous process of investigation, experiments and peer review, they are astonishingly basic to understand without religious bias. Take the theory of evolution for example, it says animals change to adapt and survive in their changing environment, those that cannot change fast enough go extinct. Now what is difficult to understand in that, especially when 99% fossils of animal and plants found are extinct.

Also take the big b.ang theory, hubble observed that further a galaxy is from us, the faster it is moving away from us, and this phenomenon can be observed in all directions with us as the centre of this expansion. So what is difficult in understanding that the expansion must have started at a point at a distant point in time. Now we might not know when the expansion started because we no not know the exact rate of acceleration or decceleration over the period, but it is easy to understand what an inflatable closed system entails.

Also the fact that someone studies a subject does not mean that the person would believe or accept the subject matter without understanding it. In Nigeria we have thousands of science graduates graduating yearly from our tertiary institution and have hundreds of thousands school cert. graduates with science subjects leaving secondary school every year, but the number who accepts these basic scientific theories is less than 0.01%. In Nigeria you will find majority of doctors, biologists and professional scientists reject the the theory of evolution based solely on religious and emotional sentiments.

davidylan: how? Please explain how DNA lends credence to the theory of evolution.

allow me to evaluate this - "it smacks of gross ignorance to equate the study of fossils to the theory of evolution" . . . this is quite baffling. The theory of evolution requires a fossil record as concrete evidence. To suggest that somehow the fossil record is completely divorced from the theory of evolution is absolute crap and clear evidence you have no idea what you are talking about.

David, my old mortal foe. You seem to be actually "born again", no insults, intolerance and aggression as your old self. Anyway, in the spirit of the season, happy new year and a joyous season.

I did not say that fossil records is completely divorced from the theory of evolution, the misconception i am trying to correct is that the theory of evolution is based on the study of fossils, meanwhile the reserve is the case. The study of fossils is based on the theory of evolution. What i am saying is that problems in fossil records like missing links, lack of fossils for a particular specie or incomplete record can not invalidate the theory of evolution as creations wants us to believe. The theory of evolution does not necessarily require fossils to give it credence as there are other methods to study evolutionary paths using other methods like DNA, differentiation of existing species as done by Darwin, etc.

When i say the study of DNA is about a decade, what i mean is the study of the complete genome of animals is barely ten years. I remember when the complete genome of humans was decoded about a decade ago, it was well celebrated. And the comparison of complete genome between different specie gives further credence to evolution.

Study of fossils gives very strong credence to the theory of evolution. Even if you are not convinced with the evidence provided by hominid fossils, there are very compelling evidence of those of other animals, like bovines, sharks, dinosaurs and even insects.

.

Nigerians never cease to amaze me with their refusing to learn basic science, just because it contradicts their religious beliefs. They would refuse to read up on a scientific theory but claim enough authority to be able to criticise it.

The theory of evolution has gone beyond debate in advanced industrialized societies. Even in Christian Europe (those that brought us the bible) and Jewish Israel Yahweh's chosen people), majority of the general population, including children understands and accepts evolution. But here you have academics including professors questioning the validity of evolution based only on religious sentiments.

For the ignorant, the theory of evolution was propounded and accepted before any fossil was ever studied. Charles Darwin wrote his book - The Origin of Species, and propounded the theory of evolution based solely on the differences he found among various animals in his travels around the world especially south America. When he compared animals between different continents and various habitats, he found differences between the animals can be explained by environmental, nutritional and social factors. He did not study fossils.

Study of fossils came much later to give more evidence on the theory of evolution. Just like the study of DNA which is barely a decade also gives credence to evolution. Even the study of hominid fossils is less than 50 years old while the theory of evolution is more than 150 years, so it smacks of gross ignorance to equate the study of fossils to the theory of evolution.

In comparing state governments to the federal government, i believe state governments are as corrupt, incompetent and visionless as the federal government - including lagos state. It has to do with how leaders are thrown up in Nigeria. The reason it is more apparent at the federal level is that the federal government is scrutinized more closely by the press, the people and the international community. Another factor is the national assembly is to some extent independent and is able to provide some checks on the president, but in the case of the state house of assemblies, they are mainly errand boys of the governor. Also tribalism plays a major factor in determining perceived performance, the president is vehemently supported and protected by his tribe while being criticised and attacked by other tribes. While the governor is usually protected and promoted by his tribe (especially in a homogeneous state.)

in the case of Fashola, supporters should provide us with the lagos state budget for the last few years, what is the percentage of capital to recurrent expenditure? How much is used for feeding the state house? What is the level of budget performance? Why did the state how of assembly carry out an assessment of previous budgets before approving this one? Theses are questions that are asked of the federal government but never asked of state governments.

Merry xmas to all Seun, super moderator mukina, moderators and all forum contributors. Today being xmas (the rebirth of the son of God or the Sun God), should see us spread peace and love. So i implore all with opposing political and religious views to sheath the sword today and refrain from insults and abuses.

As for Fashola, i am not against him per se, what i am against is the excessive propaganda that we are bombarded with daily. He renovates a hospital, repair a road or signs a Public-private partnership agreement and for the rest of the month we no go hear word.

Areas i give him kudos for is in the area of security and in renovating and maintaining existing infrastructure. He has done extremely well in beautification of lagos, especially the highbrow and Medium brow areas. Although in other climes beautification projects is usually the purview of the local council or local government. He neglected the poor suburbs of Ikorodu, Epe and Badagry.

In terms of new infrastructural developments in areas of power, roads, water, education and even agriculture, he has failed to make any impact especially with the amount of funds available to him.

Peace and a merry xmas to everybody once more.

It is a wonderful thing that Fashola's apologists have taken up the challenge and provided us with a project initiated, funded and completed by governor fashola, which is the Ajeromi Maternity Clinic. Before we can finally accept our shame of being haters, can someone from Ajeromi help us confirm that the project is actually as hyped? We need to know that the project is new and not a renovation of an existing clinic as we have known to be fashola's style. At least Ajeromi is one of the largest local government in lagos, so it should be expected that we should have a few hundred nairalanders who can confirm the authenticity of the project.

We might be luck and get a feedback from a member who have actually used the services of this clinic.

As for a new maternity clinic in Ikorodu, i can confirm that one as a white lie. I live in Ikorodu, and all Fashola did was to renovate (mainly paint job) the existing general hospital at Ikorodu.

In terms of personalities, i think the most corrupt Nigerian head of state is IBB, Abacha, OBJ, abdulsalami, then the rest, as seen by their enormous wealth and lavish lifestyles after they left office. It would be difficult to assess GEJ until he leaves office.

But in terms of government, i think the most corrupt is undoubtedly, Goodluck Jonathan, given the sheer volume of money stolen by its officials, and accounting for the fact that the goodluck government makes more money in a year than the whole tenure of IBB or Abacha. For the same reason the OBJ government comes a close second.

babapupa: ....but we have shamed you with pictures so what more do you want us to shame you with?

The only reason why you losers are always losing sleep over Fashola is because his work is putting your lazy and do nothing village leaders to shame, he's calling them dullards and you are also upset that Lagos is leaving you behind.


Now, apart from painting roundabouts, can you please show us what your village leaders have initiated and completed and even GEJ sef if you get any to show us..

Are you expecting to shame us with those pictures? Instead you are embarrassing us with meaningless pictures. How can you just post pictures without any details of the project. From the pictures i think i can recognise the Ikota link bridge and the concessioned lekki expressway. If these are the symbol of performance by your governor, then that performance needs to be questioned.

So please shame us blind people by showing us projects initiated, funded and completed by your performing governor with over over N30 billion naira monthly revenue (both IGR and allocation from abuja).

For your information i am not a fan of GEJ or any governor in Nigeria ( although Oshiomole is trying with meagre resources, akpabio is trying also but not commensurate with the huge resources he gets for such a tiny state). Almost all the governors are mediocre, no political, administrative or sociological philosophy. All they are capable of is poorly thought out and poorly executed projects which most of the time only enrich their pockets and that of their cronies, and then spend so much time and money celebrating these projects.

I had been saying this for the past couple of years, but every body was caught in the fad. Fashola is 90% propaganda and 10% actual work. He has a formidable propaganda machine. So the masses are easily bought over with all the noise of performance.

It is a joke for people to call Fashola a brilliant administrator. What were his administrative antecedents before he became a governor? He was simply a chief of staff for a few years. Prior to becoming a governor, Fashola never held an administrative position in his life. So there must be something else Tinubu saw in Fashola to impose him as governor of lagos.

We fashola's antagonists only ask for one simple thing of protagonists, show us one new project initiated, funded and completed by governor Fashola in his six odd years as governor and you would have shamed us.

Then we should now compare the performance of Fashola to past Governors of lagos state and see if he can be said to rate among the best. Ie Tinubu, Marwa, Rasaki, Otedola, Jakande. I want to know which governor touched more lives.

I do not know whether GO Adeboye would make heaven or not, but what i know is that the holy ghost congress is not about making heaven but more about showing influence and power. Year in year out, the president, governors and other high powered politicians are invited to grace the occasion. The politicians realizing the sheer number of people in attendance turn it into a political campaign ground. By Jonathan's campaign speech at the redemption camp, you will agree that the campaign for the 2015 elections was flagged off.

But no body has cared to ask why presidents always go to the redemption camp to make political speeches. Is Jonathan now a born again Christian? Has he giving his life to Christ? Which bible believing church does he attend and does he pay his tithes. OBJ was also a regular visitor to the camp (although OBJ would never kneel or bow to any one), was OBJ also born again and why has OBJ not attended holy ghost congress since leaving office?

bojokayode: @wirinet.Pls be sure of whatever you say up here.can u post d pic where Jonathan knelt before Adeboye&Adeboye backed the Altar facing Jonathan?Nigerians.....If what you have said is true,God will judge but if its a lie,God will judge u&ur intentions.Haters...I'm sure you don't respect God,let alone his servant.You must be a native doctor.About d bible,go and check 1Sam,the account of Saul d king honouring/bowing b4 Samuel the prophet.

what did i say that is false? Did our president kneel down and bow down in front of Adeboye or not?

As you said, Adeboye is a SERVANT, he is not a representative of god, not a master and definitely not God. So he should serve God first and then his followers, he should not be worshipped.

Why not do us all a favour by pasting 1sam which shows Saul kneeling and bowing before Samuel and i would agree that it is a Christian requirement for a sovereign to bow before a Prophet as a way of worshipping God.

The only problem with Mr Collin's long epistle is that not a single verse supports any man bowing and kneeling before any man of god or prophet, not to talk of a sovereign ruler.

I wonder what religion Nigerian so called Christians are practicing, because it is not Christianity. Even when people were kneeling before Christ, it was more of a desperate plea for help and not a form of worship as Mr Collins wants us to believe. The is no where in the bible that says kneeling and bowing down before a priest is the same thing as kneeling and bowing before God. Yes bowing at the alter of God is tantamount to bowing before God according to the bible, but not bowing down before any man.

It is morally, spiritually and ethically wrong for the president of Nigeria to kneel down and bow before a man of God, while the Man of God stands erect backing the alter in the full glare of the whole nation. Adeboye needs as much prayer as Jonathan as no body is sure of heaven - even Adeboye. They should both kneel before the alter.

Someone mentioned Obama bowing to the Saudi king (as a mark of respect and not worship), the Americans were highly embarrassed by that act and they were very hard on obama for it.

This problem of men of god trying to arrogate power to himself over sovereign kings is what cause a lot of division within Christianity in medieval Europe, leading to kings separating from the catholic church and setting themselves up as king and priest.

So in today world who would bow to who among these men of god? The Pope, archbishop of Canterbury, primate of the anglican church, Adeboye, Bishop Oyedepo, kumuyi.

collinsfbi: I know you are not a Christian even a devoted muslim will never post such foolish post as yours. In your Bible there is nothing like kneeling down and pray but in mine there are hundreds of act of kneeling before God or a vessel of God and pray to God almighty. Check below extracts from the Holy Bible which I believe is the same thing all over the world and see how people knelt before Jesus and Jesus Himself knelt before God almighty and prayed.


Matthew 17:14 “And they having come to the crowd, a man came near to him (Jesus), kneeling down to him, and saying, Lord, have mercy.'

Mark 1:40 “Then a leper came to Him, imploring Him, kneeling down to Him and saying to Him, "If You are willing, You can make me clean."

Mark 10:17 “And he going out into the way, one running near, and kneeling to him , asked him, Inherently good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?'

Luke 22:41 And He was withdrawn from them about a stone's throw, and He knelt down and prayed,

Luke 5:8 When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus' knees , saying, "Depart from me, for I am a sinful man, O Lord!"

Luke 22:41 “And He (Jesus) was withdrawn from them about a stone's throw, and He knelt down and prayed.'

Acts 7:60 “Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not charge them with this sin." And when he had said this, he fell asleep.'

Acts 9:40 “But Peter put them all out, and knelt down and prayed.'

Acts 20:36 “And when he had said these things, he knelt down and prayed with them all.'

Acts 21:5 “When we had come to the end of those days, we departed and went on our way; and they all accompanied us, with wives and children, till we were out of the city. And we knelt down on the shore and prayed.'

Romans 14:11 “For it is written: "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God."

Ephesians 3:14 “For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.'

Philippians 2:10,11 “That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow , of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

I Kings 8:54 “And so it was, when Solomon had finished praying all this prayer and supplication to the LORD, that he arose from before the altar of the LORD, from kneeling on his knees with his hands spread up to heaven.'

I Kings 18:42 “So Ahab went up to eat and drink. And Elijah went up to the top of Carmel ; then he bowed down on the ground, and put his face between his knees.'

2 Chronicles 6:13 “(for Solomon had made a bronze platform five cubits long, five cubits wide, and three cubits high, and had set it in the midst of the court; and he stood on it , knelt down on his knees before all the assembly of Israel, and spread out his hands toward heaven);'

2 Chronicles 7:3 “And all the children of Israel saw the fire come down and the heavy glory of Jehovah upon the house, and they bent down on their knees with their nostrils to the ground upon the pavement, and prostrated themselves, and raised their hands to Jehovah, because of his goodness, because of his eternal mercy.'

2 Chronicles 7:14 “And if my people which are called by my name shall bend their knees , and judge in prayer, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will attentively hear from the heavens, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.'

2 Chronicles 12:6,7 “And the princes of Israel and the king bent their knees, and they said, Jehovah is righteous. And when Jehovah saw that they bent their knees, the word of Jehovah was to Shemaiah, saying, They have bent their knees ; I will not destroy them.'

2 Chronicles 12:12 “And when he bent his knees the nostrils of Jehovah turned back from him, and he did not destroy him completely, and also in Judah words were good .

2 Chronicles 29:29 And when they had made an end of offering, the king and all found with him bent their knees , and prostrated themselves.

2 Chronicles 34:27 “Because your heart was soft, and you bent your knees before the face of God when you attentively heard his words against this place and against its inhabitants, and you bent your knees before my face, and tore your clothes, and wept before my face - even also I have attentively heard you — An oracle of Jehovah.'

Ezra 9:5 “At the evening sacrifice I arose from my fasting; and having torn my garment and my robe, I fell on my knees and spread out my hands to the LORD my God.

Psalms 95:6 “Oh come, let us worship and bow down; let us kneel before the LORD our Maker.'

Isaiah 45:22-23 "Look to Me, and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.

Mr Collins is the only person that attempted the justify GEJ kneeling and bowing before Adeboye using biblical examples, all others are just using their emotions.

The only prob

Why do nigerian Christians on nairaland pretend to be blind, dumb, blind and brain dead? The main grouse of the poster is president Jonathan kneeling and bowing before Adeboye, and not not kneeling and bowing before God.

In pictures, we see the president bowing in front of Adeboye and not God. If you people now represent God with Adeboye, then you have broken the first 3 commandments, which says thou shall not have any other god, thou shall not make any graven image to represent God (Adeboye's image is now a representation of God) and thou shall not bow down before any image. It would have been abominable for the Jews to bow down before any man of god including Moses who brought the commandments.

So Christians should stop blaspheming, ADEBOYE IS NOT GOD AND ADEBOYE IS NOT A REPRESENTATIVE OF GOD, he is simply a servant of God.

Akinlawson: i just believed that Nigeria is full of crazy pple that needs to be attended to in psycratic hospital, what is so wrong in president to go for prayer, if he has gone to mosque? i knw that there would not be this comments.........fools, nonsense, hypocrite,.......,

i am sorry to say, but it is you who need psychological evaluation if you see nothing wrong in the sovereign of a nation bowing and kneeling down before another man even if he is a man of god.

Although i am not a Moslem, i do not thing Moslem kneel and bow before their imams. They all bow and kneel facing the east when praying. I have never heard a muslim imam annoiting anybody while he is kneeling in front of him.

Nigerians are an amazing group of people. The comments on this post is simply amazing, it shows that the minds of most people is still in the stone age and yet to enter the iron age not to talk of the jet age. Even the ancient Israelites did not worship men of gods or prophets of god the way we worship our GOs. It is unthinkable for a king in ancient Israel or any other ancient civilization to bow down before a prophet, chief priest, or religious authority.

It is unbelievable for Christians to insinuate that bowing and kneeling in front of a man of god is equal to bowing before God. Remember the first commandment of thou shall not have any other god before me.
Others say the GO is a representative of God on earth, so should be treated like God, the only problem is that they provide no bible biblical basis. A prophet is a SERVANT of God and not a representative as claimed by hero worshippers. A servant can never be called a representative. The only representative God sent is supposed to be Jesus Christ no other. And Jesus himself did not ask anybody to bow and kneel before him (only the devil demand that).

It is a huge embarrassment for the sovereign of a nation to bow and kneel before any other man. Imagine the queen on England of kneeling and bowing before any other person. That is why i respect the Oba of Benin or Sultan of Sokoto, the would not bow for even the pope.

So for those justifying GEJ bowing before adeboye, how many men of God should he be bowing to? What of Oyedepo, T.B. Joshua, Chris Oyakhilome, Chris Okotie, and the myriads of MOGs doing the Nigerian landscape? Or are they lesser men of gods?

Nigerians have two main problems: they love to copy concepts they see in oyinbo countries without understanding issues involved with the concept and they are always in a hurry to duplicate these concepts.

Cities, towns and villages are not build overnight by governments or even private people but evolves. A city evolves according to the economic activity sustaining the city or village. The reason we have unsustainable villages, towns cities and states in modern Nigeria is because the are sustained only with hand outs of free oil money from Abuja, stop the flow of free money from abuja and many of these cities would collapse overnight.

A mega city would naturally develop if you have a mega business or industries, which can only develop if the people are empowered enough to create mega wealth. A good example is Hollywood or Vegas.

This abortion debate has been overflogged on this nairaland religious section, just like tithes, so the arguments are just being recycled.

I have said it again and again that nobody has the right to dictate what a woman does with her body. I mean a young, free and single legal adult woman. It might be painful for the theists to accept but you cannot hold others to your own personal moral prejudices and preferences. As long as she is within the confines of the laws of her society (that is in secular societies).

It is laughable when someone refer to abortion of a baby to murdering of the baby. They need to check their dictionary to learn what it means to abort a process.

Even in commonsense English, when a woman discovers she is pregnant, she say i am going to have a baby, and not i already have a baby. A pregnancy becomes a baby the second it leaves the mothers body and is capable of independent existence. Till then it is an organ like any other organ in her body. And can decide to remove it if she does not want it. She can even decide to remove the whole womb or her breasts if she chooses. It does not affect onlooking strangers in anyway.

Some take the moral high ground of questioning the sexu.al life of others. What is you concern about who others decide to sleep with? As long as it is done within the confines of their private spaces, and the consequences is their to bear and does not affect others, then it is non of your business.

If you decide to wait until your thirties before having se.x, good for you. But someone who decides to do it at the legal age of 21 owes you (or your god) no apologies.

Double post

Continue.....
The biblical principle of it is more blessed to give than to receive cannot be twisted to mean that we should compulsorily submit 10% of our paycheck to our pastor or church or face God's wrath. Giving can be in the form of anything; money, material, time, knowledge, any other type of help to those that need it - this is what Christ was supposed to be about.

Any church that depends on compulsory tithing to survive does not deserve to survive and should be closed down. When we have charity organizations like the Red Cross and others that have survived for decades with voluntary donations, without any form of compulsion. (anyway they do not support the extravagant lifestyles and business ventures of their CEOs). Also we have many religious organizations including Christian denominations that have survived for centuries without tithing.

Just because apostle J.A. Babalola, or prophet T.B. Joshua, General Overseer E.A Adeboye, Bishop Oyedepo or any other titled "men of god" preaches and lay emphasis on tithing does not make it right or Christian. Mis quoting and twisting malachi 3:10 does not make it right. I have challenged tithers many times to show me explicit biblical injunction to give 10% of their earnings compulsorily to their pastor so that he can do whatever he pleases with it. I am still waiting for the answer.

I say it again tithing is a fraud. Just like 419, it is a Nigerian phenomenon. All the churches you mention are Nigerian churches. Mention churches outside Nigeria (and US)that preach salvation according to tithes. Christianity had survived for 2000years without depending on tithes. In fact tithes are a small minority in the total world Christian population. The traditional orthodox Christian denominations of Catholics, anglican, Methodist, and so many others are much more than the minority Pentecostal Christians whose main doctrine is tithe.

God2man: @ pastor kun, i know you very well. You will never agree with me, but the truth is that there is no problem free life, presently, there is a global economic meltdown, in fact Jesus said that in this world we will have tribulation. Your best teacher is adversity, without it you will not grow or become a better christian.

Money,money,money. What if God withdraws your health and you start paying bills, what are you going to do? Also, God can bless you with sound health and you just pay little money for medical expenses. There was a case of a man that got afflicted with an ailment, a man with a big car came to the man of God for healing, God said" Tithe", this man refused to pay tithe, although he gives money to church but tithe, No way. God told the man of God to tell the man to pay his tithe and he will be fine, thank God for his mercy the ailment could have terminated his life.

Now, what am i saying here? True riches is not how much you HAVE, but how much you are willing to give. So, coming here to tell us that tithers are facing financial hardship is not a good reason to conclude that tithers are not blessed. Infact, money is limited in some areas, for example, money does not make a good home, money cannot give you brain, money can buy you books, but not brain. Money can buy you the best mattress but not a sound sleep. There is a yoruba adage that says; "ibanuje moniwon fun eniti o ri gari wamu" the sorrow of a man that is swallowing gari is limited. People believed that once they have money, their problems are over, they are joking. If you have money, there is going to be problem, if you do not have, you will defnitely have a greater problem, the important thing is contentment, Godliness with contentment is a great gain, a great blessing indeed so not Money.

I have come a long way in my christian journey, now, when i look back, i always give glory to God for that woman God sent to me a decade ago to pay my tithe whenever i collected my salary, i am not a Pastor, i am not on church payroll, i would rather give to support the work of God than to be receiving money from church, my Bible told me that it is more blessed to give than to receive.

Moreover, if you are doing something continually, and you do not get result, people may say you are mad, but the foolishness of God is wiser than men: and the weakness of God is stronger than men, 1cor 1:25, for the fact that we have been praying for sometime and it seems there is no answer or the situation may even get worse as a result of our prayer, does not mean God will not answer our prayer, God's ways are higher than our own ways. Likewise, if you are paying tithe and you are expriencing hardship, it is not a good reason to conclude that Tithe is a fraud. A big No.

Men of God who have gone to the mountain in 1930s, fasted for forty days, without food except water, came back to establish the church and instructed their members to pay tithe can NEVER, NEVER, NEVER be wrong. For example,Apostle Joseph Ayodele Babalola was the one that founded the Christ Apostolic church,CAC, up till today they are still paying tithe.

Now, who are the proponents of Antithers on nairaland forum to open the same Bible, that we were told that Aposlte J.A Babalola the founder of CAC memorized the whole book of psalm, to tell us that Tithing is a fraud. A big lie from the pit of hell.

At least i know the following churches still pay tithe, RCCG, MFM, CHRIST EMBASSY, WINNERS. So, i don't know where Antithers on nairaland get their doctrine from, i don't know.

I rest my case.

God bless you all.
God2man.

I am sorry to say but you do not have any case. You are only emotionally and psychologically attached to tithe without any biblical basis. How will tithing make you a better Christian? Do you even have an idea of who a Christian is? For your information a Christian is a person who lives according to the dictates and teachings of Jesus Christ. Jesus never demanded for tithes from his disciples or anybody else and never commanded anybody to pay tithe.

Are you now tying good health or other misfortune to tithing? If so please provide us with just one biblical example. In fact that doctrine is from paganism and African traditional religion where you have to bribe the gods (through the priest of course), to receive blessings and fortune.

Realising the truth that true riches is not how much money you have or how many houses or material things you possess, shows you are gradually coming into enlightenment. But that your statement is at variant with what is preached by over 90% of the so called men of god, they instill the fallacy that money and materialism is the key to happiness (and blessing from God), and anybody who is poor is cursed and is a sinner. Contentment (not complacency) is one of the main keys to happiness, and i am yet to see a Nigerian Pentecostal church that preach it.

This report is bullshite. You do not even need to be an economist to debonk this cap. Well some nigerians love caressing their ego with all sorts of fantastic catch phrases; giant of Africa, top 20th economy in the year 2020, fastest growing economy in the world and now Nigeria to overtake UK and France economy by 2050.

It annoys me when the government and some people give one sided statistics on economic growth without giving the components of that growth. They de-emphasize the fact that over 90% of the growth is in the oil and gas sector which is controlled by foreign multinational (including these same France and British) companies who cart away 40% of anything we earn. Then the remaining 10% is shared by the industrial, agricultural, financial and other sectors. Can you then consider this real growth? What will happen when the price of oil goes burst or when an alternative source of energy is found.

You do not need an economic degree to know the indices and infrastructure needed for real growth. The crucial ones are good and efficient transportation system - especially cheap and efficient rail transportation, to be able to move raw materials and finished goods to and from factories, then you need a machine tools industry before you can contemplate industrialization - unless you people think it is possible to industrialize by relying on others like Germany UK and China for industrial machines. Then manpower, with the declining educational standard in every facet of our educational system, where will we find the necessary middle and high level manpower necessary for industrialization?

Then there are myriads of other issues like the growth killing interest rates, lack of power (compare our so called improved power with the power available in any developing country- i did not even say developed), high cost of poor services, quadruple taxation by all tiers of government, including agberos), corrupt and inefficient judiciary (it takes forever to settle simple industrial, contractual and labour disputes). The list of stumbling block to real growth is so many that i cannot state all here.

Finally, the official growth figure is fraudulent without taking account exchange rate depreciations, inflation and population increase, which usually cancel out the perceived growth figures.

beanos: When you pay your Tithe of 10%, You still have 90% left with you. From there you can still help the poor around you. You don't rob peter to pay paul.

The Law of Tithing.

Tithing is a commandment from the Lord to give one-tenth of all our increase, which we understand to mean
income. Even Abraham paid tithing,
"And it was this same Melchizedek to whom Abraham paid tithes; yea, even our father Abraham paid tithes of one-tenth part of all he possessed."

Blessings from Paying Tithing.

When we obey the Law of Tithing we are blessed. Malachi 3:10 says, "Bring ye all
the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD
of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room
enough to receive it." When we don't pay tithing we are stealing from God. "Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have
we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings." ( Malachi 3: An important part about obedience to the Law of
Tithing is to pay it faithfully. This means that we shouldn't begrudge paying it, such as grumbling in our hearts about
"having" to give money. "There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated— And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated." Meaning we
receive blessings by obeying God's laws and when we obey God's laws there are blessings that go with it. Remember,
blessings can be spiritual, temporal or both but are not always given in the way we expect. How to Calculate Tithing Since tithing is one-tenth of our increase, meaning our income, we figure out how much money, either weekly, monthly, etc. and then times
that amount by 10%. You can easily do this by dividing any amount by 10. For example take #50,000 divide it by ten and the amount of tithing would be
#5000.
It's also important to note that
you can be generous with your
tithing, by paying even more.

Gaining a Testimony of Tithing.

Personally I know that obeying the law of tithing is a wonderful financial blessing. It's a privilege and a blessing
to pay tithing. As you put your trust in the Lord and begin to pay a faithful tithe of 10 percent of your income you
will gain your own personal testimony from the law of tithing.
Be Blessed.

See twisting of simple mathematics to justify tithing.

one tenth of all our increase does not mean 10% of our income, it mean exactly 10% of our increase or growth. That means that if our produce (or income as you would like to interprete it) does not experience increase or growth, you are not to pay any tithe. Remember Abraham paid tithes on his increase (spoils of war), and not on his total assets.

So you need to recalculate, the tithes in the examples you gave based on the increase in income (if there is any).

martin123: Malachi 3:10 (KJV)
10Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.



In my own opinion, the Bible said in the scripture above, that we should bring it into the store house of the lord, so where will you regard as the store house of God? The Church of course

An observer would think Malachi 3:10 is what the whole gospel of Christianity is all about the way pentecostals emphasis it. They have so twisted it that the Jews who are the original practitioners of the concept would be perplexed.

Now it still baffled me how someone can twist the above verse to mean you should give 10% of you income to a pastor or even a church (although with pentecostals the pastor is the church). The verse says bring all the tithes into the storehouse that there may be meat in mine house. So a church is now a store house for meat (maybe the members are meat to the pastors).

Whenever the bible talks about tithes, it always mention agricultural produce and never about money. Another question is how many people paid tithes in the whole of the bible? Abraham was said to pay tithes only once. It did not mention him paying to a church. What about others? Solomon, David, Jacob, isaac, and others in the old testament? Who paid Jesus any tithes? Did Jesus or any of the disciples demand for any tithes?

Tithes is 419, it works on the same principle with yahoo yahoo, you are promised unbelievable wealth if you pay some money upfront and the maga milked until he or she runs dry. What the bible encourages is voluntary offerings, not compulsory giving. Giving should be from the heart and not by force.

Finally, giving to the needy and the less privileged without expecting anything in return is the most noble attribute of our humanity, and deserves heaven more that somebody giving tithes for future selfish rewards.

Nigerian politicIans love rhetorics without having a clue of what they are talking about, while nigerian masses love to hear rhetorics, without asking for details of how to achieve bogus promises by politicians.

Do you have an idea on how much it cost to generate and store 1w of solar power (photovoltaic cells) electricity? I have done a number of solar installations and i can tell you it range between N750 to N1,500 per watt, depending on scale of project and specifications. Because solar installation involves the cost of the solar generator, the electricity storage (batteries), the inverter (to be able to distribute the electricity) and the installation cost. So to instal a 1kw system, you would require at least N750,000. For a 1mw system, you would need at least N750,000,000. Now extrapolate for a 450 mw system.

I am not saying solar power is not good, what i am saying is that on a governmental level - especially federal government, gas powered turbine systems and hydro powered dams are far more cheaper and cost effective to maintain. We are still flaring most of our gas for God sake, and we have many useless dams that do nothing but flood our cities and towns at the slightest rain.

Solar power is effective as a back up power source for domestic and small industrial or commercial use.

I am forced to align with Waku (the mad man) here. Giving militants money to safe guard the pipelines can only work in the short run, it would backfire in the long run. Can and will the government be able to give millions of dollars to the militants forever? What will happen when the flow of cash stop? What will happen when a new president from another region of the country take over?

It is also a dangerous precedence to be paying N64,000 to 26,000 former armed militants - mostly ijaw youths (out of millions of unemployed youth in the Niger delta). That is the equivalent of a standing army that can be used for anything in the future.