₦airaland Forum

You see why some of us are skeptics, a story must have logic and common sense and not just accept a story because a book or newspaper says so.

This story defies all logic and common sense, if we follow the chronology of the events, it does not make sense at all.

They say at 10pm on Saturday the 7 they received a phone call informing them of mama's sickness and her admission at a hospital in Akure.

At 2:00am on Sunday the 8th, they heard she had died and confirmed dead by a doctor.

The next day there was a strike, so they could not get her to a hospital mortuary.

Then mortuary attendants were coming to vaccinate the corpse with clurophune.

Then on the 12th day she resurrected.

Matters Arising;
Did she die in the hospital or at home?
If she was admitted in a hospital on Saturday and pronounced dead on Sunday, how did she get back home on Monday?

How were they able to get mortuary attendants to work during the crippling strike?
What is clurophune? And is it possible to give a vaccine to a corpse?
Why did the body not show signs of rottenness after 12days in the open? No smell at all? When even a small dead rat would make a room unbearable after being dead for a few hours.

If the corpse was left in the house because of the strike, why did they not move it into the morgue once the strike was called off? The strike only lasted 5 days, why was it in the house for 12days?

How did they know the corpse was warming up? Were they checking the temperature regularly?

What was the nature of the sickness if mama? Where is her medical report?

This story looks like a publicly stunt to attract more followers.

That you could commit atrocities (sin) and get away with it with no consequences whatsoever, all you have to do is confess your sins (not specific but a general statement), accept a mythical Caucasian man as your lord and saviour and submit your mind to the founder of the church you made these submissions. The very principle goes against all common sense and even wise philosophical doctrines of the past like karma and cause and effect law.

I believe this doctrine has done the most damage to mankind as it kills the conscience of murderers, robbers, cheats, etc, as you can always sin and ask for forgiveness (especially if you are caught), and all guilt will disappear from the mind.

Then the concept of same punishment for small and large sin is obnoxious. How can you prescribe the same punishment for a person who told a small lie and a person who commits mass murder? If we apply the Christian god's laws in our courts, it would be senseless indeed.


Another stupid one is that the Christian god loves us UNCONDITIONALLY ,on the condition that we must love and accept his son first, then accept a free gift of the holy spirit, then go to church, pray and praise him ceaselessly, pay tithes, offerings etc, and we must submit our mind body and soul to men of god.

Deep Sight: Is there really a finite number of possible or conceivable sounds?

Of course there is a finite number of possible or conceivable sounds. First of all sounds are mechanical disturbance of air that our ears are sensitive to. And the human ear is sensitive to a limited range of frequencies, from about 20hz to 20MHz. We cannot perceive lower and higher frequencies.

Then there are no infinite graduation of sounds between notes, in its fundamental state all energy is not continuous but quantized, so only specific basic unit of graduation is allowed. Light is also emitted and absorbed in quanta.

Deep Sight: Is there really a finite number of possible or conceivable sounds?

Of course there is a finite number of possible or conceivable sounds. First of all sounds are mechanical disturbance of air that our ears are sensitive to. And the human ear is sensitive to a limited range of frequencies, from about 20hz to 20MHz. We cannot perceive lower and higher frequencies.

Then there are no infinite graduation of sounds between notes, in its fundamental state all energy is not continuous but quantized, so only specific basic unit of graduation is allowed. Light is also emitted and absorbed in quanta.

logicboy: Philosophical bullcrap! Seriously, do you fall in love with someone that you are not s.exually attracted to? Please tell me, hypocrites.

Please re-read the post and so that you can comprehensive the logic. I never implied that you can be in a romantic relationship (love), without lust.

There is a difference between love and lust, but common modern day interpretation does not distinguish between the two. In classical roman civilization, there are three kinds of love, namely éros, philios and agape, eros can be likened to lust, philios is brotherly/sisterly love and agape is spiritual love.

A romantic relationship is usually triggered by eros (at least in men), then it evolves to philios (non séxual relationship and ultimately evolves to agape love.

How can you return money to someone who says his money is not missing. The delta state government says no money is missing from its accounts. The delta state assembly passed a resolution saying Ibori did not steal any money from its treasury.

So how can the British Police return any money to its treasury

Dr. Okonjo Iweala might have the required qualifications for the world bank president, but she does not possess the moral qualification; yes she had modest success as the finance minister in her first coming, but this time she has been a disaster. She even left the OBJ government with her dignity intact by resigning and disagreeing with the then president. But now, she is just hanging on for political gains, her effect in this government is almost nil.

As finance minister, she is the most powerful minister as she controls the while economy, the CBN and other financial agencies are under her. Then Jonathan increased her powers by adding the office of the coordinating minister of the economy. With all these powers, the Nigerian economy is in the doldrums, we are now owing almost as much as before we got debt relief, corruption is so rife in agencies under her supervision, she does not have control how much money leaves her ministry as payment for fuel subsidy, has no idea of the monumental fraud going on in the pension office. If she feels she is being impeded in her duties and responsibility, she should have resigned honourable with her reputation intact. But she is hobnobbing with political crooks just like Dora akinyuli did. It is obvious she is looking for political relevance.

In the developed world, moral qualifications is more important than academic or even professional qualifications; unlike in developing countries.

Deepsight

We have been through this your argument of nothingness Time and time again and you keep bringing up the same argument. In modern day physics, there is nothing like nothingness. What we have is interactions of vibrations ( or energies) of different frequencies. So in effect we are talking about energy fields. When you say nothingness are you saying we have regions of the universe that contain
no matter, energy, gravitational field, magnetic field, etc. Remember gravitational, magnetic and electrical fields extends to infinity. There is no portion of the universe that contain nothingness.

About the possibility of mind being able to control matter, I am of the school of though that it might be a possibility because I believe that thought is a form of energy, and energy interacts with matter(another form of energy), but I don't see how that proves the existence of god(s). more research in that direction is required to understand the mind better. When I say mind, I am not talking about some spiritual or mystical thing, I am talking about the totality of the neurological processes that manifests as consciousness.

Lesson to be learnt from the Ibori saga. - when there is political uncertainty and you do not know where the balance of power will swing, stay neutral.

Jenwitemi: Wirinet, why are you still pursuing this old and tired debate? Even modern scientists have long abandon the ridiculous claim that the universe and everything in it was created by chance.

Scientists have long accepted that the universe was (is being) created and moved on to finding out how it was (is being) constructed and the momentary conclusion is that the universe we live in is a 3D holographic reality since the atoms it is made out of is 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999...% EMPTY, meaning there is no solidity to the universe. It is a phantom as the ancients used to call it. A dream.

Move with the times, dude. Science has left all this kind of debates behind long time ago.

The debate might be old, but it is no where tired. The creation vs chance debate has been going on for centuries and will continue for centuries more.

When did scientists agree that the universe was (is being) created and is finding out how it was ( is being) created. Where did you get that?

According to science the universe burst into being about 12 - 15 billion years ago and has been evolving since then.

You are way behind with the present theories of fundamental physics, fundamental particles is no longer look upon as billiard ball like electrons revolving around a central nucleon, with lots of empty space between. Modern quantum physics says the atom is made up of interactions of different types of vibrations at extremely high frequencies.
You need to update your physics.

What do you mean by there is no solidity in the universe? Are you talking philosophically, spiritually or physically?

The purpose of life is the creation and preservation of more life (self duplication).

Beaf: How come the man still has supporters? Some people have no shame.

Shame ke, in Nigeria? Do you have any idea how many people ibori made rich who would remain eternally grateful to him? Then most importantly, do you know how many people owe their political careers to ibori? All the political offices in delta state including Uduaghan, owes their position to Ibori, not to talk of the legislature and even the federal legislature.

Kay 17: Complexity directed towards a specifi purpose could be owed to an intelligent designer

How does one know the ultimate purpose to which the complexity is directed? What is the purpose of the intelligent designer?

Logic boy
Thanks for showing us the passages, I had never read that part of the bible before. Pastors and priests usually bypass this portion and lots of others that do not serve their purpose.

So maybe the above verses are examples of a god centred relationship. Therefore bachelors now have biblical methods of getting wives. Just wait for the next SHILOH.

The DNA molecule

The DNA is the most important molecule in the universe. Its beautiful double helix spiral pattern make life possible and is in fact life itself.

Now the key question is can this pattern be formed from chance after trillions and trillions of trial and error or it must require a thoroughly thought out process by an intelligent designer to arrange the molecular pattern in very precise order.

Waiting for comments from atheists and theists.

A sand dune

The lines are drawn to perfection

The core argument of theists for the existence of a God (intelligent designer) is that nature is to complex to come about as a result of mere chance. They point to the complexity of the DNA and the human body as a whole as evidence of design. The seemingly perfect and complex patterns in nature is evidence of an intelligent designer. They ascribe impossible probability to these patterns occurring by chance. Now I want to examine 4 natural phenomena and see if they could happen by chance or it must be designed by an intelligent designer.

1. A sand dune
A sand dune is sand heaped together as a result of the action of wind. It exhibits various complex patterns lines and shapes, in fact it could be considered the works of a very creative artist.

2. A galaxy
There are over a hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe, and although there a few basic shapes, each galaxy has its own unique pattern. Stars are arranged in a complex array of patterns. Does it require a designer or the patterns happened by chance.

3. The rings of Saturn.
There are few objects in space that is more beautiful than Saturn and this is due to its alluring rings. The rings of Saturn is made up of millions of small chunks of dry ice. It is situated in a very narrow belt around the equator. It has very beautiful precise patterns and colours in concentric rings at precise distances from the centre. Does this pattern need a designer or it can happen by pure chance after billions of years.

4. Ice crystals.

Ice crystals as represented by snow flakes as innocuous as they look presents one of the most varied and beautiful patterns in nature. They come in various beautiful patterns and shaped and is such that no two patterns are identical. The only theme running in the patterns is that they are all hexagonal in shape. Now does the shape of each ice crystal require a designer?

These are just 4 examples of the millions of seemingly designed patterns in the universe. Everything in the universe manifests as patterns, the atom is a pattern of neucleons and electrons, the difference between atoms is in the arrangements and patterns. Same for elements and compounds. Life is just a pattern of molecules that allows self duplication. So does the pattern of molecules that permits self duplication (life) require an Intelligent designer or it could happen by chance after trillions and trillions of trials.

Let's hear the arguments of both sides of the divide.

D sage: Atheists are notting but the most confused,frustrated&hopeless being/fellows on earth.

The only problem i had with you,is your inability to explained thouroughly the spirit/unseen forces capable of influence our thought,emotions,reasoning,feelngs etc. Hope you all agreed with me that,we have the soul which could not be seen or torch.
If you people dont believes in existence of God,then,base on your high level of reasoning,you should be able answer the following queation.

1.what is the soul?
2.its relationship with body.
3.Is it the essential cause of the body or otherwise.

You alleged atheists are confused but your 3 questions shows you to be even more confused. You want to see helplessness and hopelessness? Go to your nearest church (born again) and look at the faces of 90% of the worshipers. There are in hopeless situations seeking one miracle or the other.

Since it is you proposing the soul hypothesis, the onus rest on you to give a definition of what a soul is. But since you insist that it cannot be seen, felt, heard, smelt or tasted, I wonder how you came to the knowledge of its existence.

Finally is this soul just a human Thing, do babies possess it. What about gorillas, monkeys, lions, insects and even trees? Do they have souls?

Tell your friends to watch the film "MATRIX"(the first one), it is a very good representation of the way the minds of the masses had been trapped and controlled by "anointed representatives of god(s)" since the beginning of time. It shows how difficult it is to escape the mental prison once entrapped.

Please watch it.

Then have your friends read up about Jim Jones of the Guyana tragedy and David koresh of the branch davidian to appreciate the power of religion on the human mind.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peoples_Temple

Welcome to the real world.

Alumnus: my dear, the statistics ur asking for has been published years ago but since it is not in arithmetics many people didn't read it and some that read it didn't understand nor believe it. Its published in simple grammar with several hidden meanings. Care to take ur time to read but you must know the Author and the Finisher of it to understand it otherwise, u may find it confusing and conflicting. Am talking about the Bible. Cheers!!!

Dear, I would not mind you providing me with the non-arithmetic statistic and its hidden meanings of examples of couples that had successful god centred relationships in the Bible.


Thanks in advance.

JeSoul: Mazaje thank you as always.

At atheists on this thread, do not crash or derail the topic. I don't know why you guys always see the need to crash christian topics without disruptive comments. If you have nothing to contribute to the topic, its not by force to post, go and make your own topic.

any repeat trouble makes should expect a ban. Thanks.

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@David, can you clarify, what sort of examples do mean?

Your threat above is immature and it shows you as a very bias moderator. When self righteous "born again" Christians troll every atheist thread, you do not threatened them with ban. They troll threads by satanists, Catholics, amorc, and even Muslim threads, you are happy with it. But once an atheist comments on a born again topic, you start fuming and threaten with ban and maybe hell fire.

Learn to become tolerant of other people's views.

As for the topic, in modern civilization, there is nothing like god centred relationship, a relationship should be based on love, tolerance and respect. And sèx is a very important part of it. I doubt there would be any relationship in the first place if there is no sexual attraction involved. The problem is if the sole aim of the relationship is selfish sexual satisfaction instead of the satisfaction of both parties.

I am surprised at the energy and importance self righteous people place on other peoples private séxual lives. If that amount of energy is expended on helping others in need, in fighting and discouraging corruption, dishonesty, hypocrisy, etc, then the society would be a much better place.

The main problem in Nigeria today is greed, avarice, sheer wickedness any body in authority including the clergy, and not who is having séx with whom

I challenge self righteous born agains to provide me with statistics that shows "god centred romantic relationships" succeed better than those of others, is the divorce rate of god centred marriages less than those of non believers? There are many GO's that have divorced and remarried, so many are engaged in extra marital affairs within their marriages.

So please provide us with proof that "god centred relationships" succeeds better than others.

To me Rashidi Yekini is the best footballer that came out of Nigeria for the following reasons;
He was the highest goal scorer for all the leagues he played in, from Nigeria to ivory coast to Portugal. Imagine him being the hugest goal scored playing for a lowly club like Victoria setubal, when there are big clubs like sporting lisbon and benefica.

He was the highest goal scorer in almost all the nations cup he featured in.

Infact you could bet he would score if he has a clear chance against any team in the world.

His problem was he did not get good managers that could over hype him and get him better clubs and contracts.

Then the next according to me is George Finidi, he was a backbone of the great Ajax team of the late 80s and early 90s, in fact he was considered as the best number 7 in the whole world.

After finidi, I would choose Stephen Okechukwu Keshi, he also excelled in every league he played in and was the most influential player in his last club stratsburg. He was also the soul of the super eagles team for a very long time.

Then, I would choose Austin okocha mainly for his exploits in Germany and that he almost single handedly kept bolton in the premiership for two seasons.
Finally I would pick peter Rufia.

Although Kanu is the most decorated Nigerian player, my problem with him is that he never really broke into the first team of all the teams he played for. He was a substitute at Ajax. Same at arsenal. Even at portsmouth, he was not a regular, before I forget inter Milan. Even with the Nigerian senior team, you can count the number of times he played full 90mins.

FXKing2012: [b]God knows all things and can do all things. He knows your future and your heart; nothing is hidden from him.

God knows all things, so he knew Adam would sin, but yet acted disappointed when he did. Same for sodom and gomorah. He knew man would sin and yet was sorry he made man and so decided to correct his mistake by killing every man, animal and plant save for Noah and his ark. Did that solve the problem and made man a robotic praise singer and worshiper of god? NO. So what did he decide to do? He begat a son, who was then added to himself together with another personality to make 3 in one person. He then sent this son( 1/3 of himself) to be born by an engaged virgin(meaning Jesus must have had identical number of chromosomes to Mary, so where did the Y chromosome come from). This human/son/1/3 god, then must then be tried for treason, stoned, slapped by his own people and then crucified by the romans. The begotten god's son/1/3 god/man died, but came back to life about 36hrs later and continued his preaching. Then about a month later he was physically taken up in a cloud (he never died). Now if you believe this, then god would be happy again and then reward you by allowing you to robotically praise and worship him forever, otherwise you will have free will but suffer in hell fire under torture of Satan for ever.

FXKing2012: The challenge is to prove to you that there is a spiritual dimension. I would like to take u or send u to a MOG and if u dont fall under the anointing when he prays for u then you can claim there is no such thing as the spirit realm. Do u have wat it takes to take up the challenge or do u wanna keep wallowing in ignorance and making unfounded claims which only lead to hell.[/b]

I also have a challenge for you, if I take you to see celine dion concert and you do not fall down or cry with tears running out of your eyes, then you will understand the power of the spirit.

In the alternative if I take you to a good hypnotist and he does not make you laugh hysterically and cry at the same time, then I would know your spirit is strong.

I am very disappointed that some people just write without first thinking deeply at issues logically, that is why government, religious leaders and those in power lead us like goats.

How can anybody say that a manual exam can be collated, processed, checked and uploaded within 3 days in a country like Nigeria. It would be difficult even in advanced countries.

Now let's analyze the logistics involved;

1. Jamb is held on a Saturday morning, so most of the answer sheets would get to the state collation points in the capital by evening, assuming perfect transportation logistics.

2. If each state capital has a processing centre then processing can start simultaneously in all state capitals. Even though the marking is processed mechanically, the machines have to be fed manually with the marking sheets, somewhat like a printer or a 201 printing machine. Now considering that each of the 1.5 candidates has four answer sheets, that brings the total number of answer sheets to 6millions. some states like lagos has over 80,000 candidates with like 320,000 answer sheets. So even is the machine can process 1 answer sheet per second, and assuming flawless manual feedings, no power outages, no paper jams in machine, etc, we can assume the answer sheets would be processed in 320,000 seconds, which is 88.88 hours (appoximately 4 days).

3. Then all the results from the states have to be uploaded onto Jambs central server. Considering the speed and capacity of our broadband,(when even checking results can take days), we can safely assume that uploading the results can take a whole day.

So in the most efficient Scenario, it would take at least 5 days working round the clock.

If all the results are collated at one central point, it would even take more time.

So can someone who is more knowledgeable, provide us with the logisics of releasing the result in 3 days.