₦airaland Forum

Deep Sight:
Nobody has ever addressed these questions for me on this Forum.

In philosophical terms any multidude of causes cannot be traceable to a further multitude. I am certain that that is inconceivable under the principles of cause and effect and i dare say mathematics. It rather makes sense to hold apparent causes as reducible in origin to a reducing number of causes and given that an infinite regress of causes is internally inconsistent with the very meaning of the term "Causation" - then we can only have ONE  ultimate cause.

I must apologize for not being conversant with philosophy and philosophical argument, i tend to look at issues from a natural scientific point of view. So scientifically, a multitude of unrelated causes can give rise to another cause.

Lets take the sand dune example i posted above;
Sand dunes are caused by the interaction of sand and wind
Sand is caused by weathering of rocks by water (rain or flowing river) and wind.
Rain is caused by the sun, evaporating water from the oceans.
the water of the oceans was caused by chemical reactions from the early earth, by combining oxygen with hydrogen.

Also the causes of wind too has so many sub-causes. and each of the sub-causes has it own series of sub-causes.

So at the end the actual first cause of sand dunes will consist of numerous unrelated causes.

Deep Sight:
And even if the foregoing is flawed: which you will have to show me; then i may still ask what is wrong with regarding a multitude of Causes as God; afterall God is said to be Infinite and Compound, no?

Honestly, i have no problems with regarding all the aggregation of causes resulting in the universe we perceive today as God.

Deep Sight:
YOU are an atheist who is a non-materialist; as such i am surprised that you imagine the quality of Intelligence to be strictly contingent on matter.

But you as a Diest, is yet to tell us what you base your intelligence to be contingent upon. What do you mean by intelligence.

I tried to preempt you by putting up to pictures, as i suspect you will base intelligence based on aggregation and interpretation of patterns, found in the natural world.

Deep Sight:
Hi Dolemite -

Let's have a walk through.

From the foregoing it is manifestly clear that your problem with the God idea is the ridiculous description of GOD and his purposes set forth by religion, myth and legend. For you said - ". . . .believing there's a God in the sky, watching over me and if i don't conform to his laws he'll cast me into the firey pits of hell. . .but he loves me lmao."

Can we set religion firmly aside: i myself despise religion - and i subscribe to none.

Given that the assertions of Religion are nonsensical -

Does this -

1. Eliminate the logical consistency of the existence of a FIRST CAUSE for all that exists?

2. Eliminate the possibility that that FIRST CAUSE could posess the quality of intelligence?

Please answer me on these: and we may progress the discussion.

My brother how are you doing? I see you are still asking those questions that a lot of people have dealt with over and over again.

Let me answer from my atheist views once again.

We cannot eliminate the possibility of a first cause, just as we cannot eliminate the possibility of a second cause or a series of second causes as a result of the first cause. Also there is the possibility of many first causes goings on to cause multiple second causes and third causes. We might be a result of multiple causes.

I do not understand what you mean by FIRST CAUSE possessing the quality of intelligence. You have to please explain what you mean by intelligence. To me intelligence connotes some kind of brain activity or at worst some kind of Neural activity. Are you suggesting that the first cause possesses a brain?

Please take a look at the causes below, can you say that the patterns were created by intelligent causes.

1. The perfect helical shape of a snail's shell
https://sovereignspeculator.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/screenhunter_04-sep-02-00381.gif


2. The beautiful patterned lines of a sand dune.
[img]http://4.bp..com/_I1bXPvYRMA4/SAGxYT8X7aI/AAAAAAAAAvU/6vktnTU8QkU/s400/sand-dunes.jpg[/img]

Please indulge me to also add this.

The beautiful shape of a spiral galaxy
https://www.irishastrology.com/celtic-symbols-spirals/Spiral-Galaxy.jpg

Onlytruth:
Why North is skeptical of Jonathan’s Acting Presidency

Alhaji  Yakasai who was former Liaison officer toformer president  Alhaji Shehu Shagari explains that the North is bent on maintaining every tenet of agreement that gave the South the Presidency for 8 years under Obasanjo.

“We are not talking of Jonathan, the issue is that the South had it for 8 years under Obasanjo, and the North should be allowed to have its own term of 8 years irrespective of current happening”, Tanko Yakasai explains.

Alhaji Yakasai accused former President Olusegun Obasanjo for scuttling the process that gave him 8 years in the presidency, stressing that his likes in the North are only trying to compel the PDP hierarchy to adhere to the gentleman agreement reached by the party on rotational presidency in 1999.

He accused the South of exploiting its vast media resources to unleash a war on a region that out of magnanimity conceded power to a Southerner in the interest of a united and strong nation.

Yakasai stated that it is only normal for the region to fight back, maintaining that anything short of it will be harmful to regional interest,and must not be allowed to happen.

He described those who entered into agreement with Obasanjo as naïve, stressing that ‘gentleman agreement is only entered into with a gentlemen’.

“Obasanjo has never shown traces of a gentleman all his life and the founding fathers of the PDP made a fatal mistake by agreeing on such deal with Obasanjo. The long and short of it is that the South is fighting to scuttle our chance and we are trying to resist them in a civilize way”,  he explained.

As it is stands today, the North is unified against Jonathan’s acting Presidency, and may employ the services of  reactionary elements within the larger group to prosecute the war. Head or tail Nigeria has to watch it to avoid the express way to Kigali .

http://www.vanguardngr.com/2010/03/04/why-north-is-skeptical-of-jonathans-acting-presidency/

Reading this peace makes me red with anger. In a civilized society, this piece would be treated as treason or at worst incitement and the person would be thrown into jail.

I hate arguing based on ethnic sentiments, this comment is annoying and insulting.

Now lets summarize the arguments presented above;

1. That Alhaji Yakasai and by extension the North cannot allow Jonathan a southerner to assume the presidency, because of the agreement they had with OBJ in 1999, irrespective of what the constitution says

2. That if the south should insist of following the constitution, the North would be ready for war to enforce that agreement.

3. That the only way we can ensure peace in Nigeria is by handing over to the north (Hausa/fulani.

But, the main issues are;

What was the Nature of the agreement and who were parties to the agreement? Was is a private agreement between a few northerners and Obasanjo, or between representatives of the Northern and southern political elites. Was in between the Yoruba and Hausa/ Fulani elites or between political representatives from all the over 250 ethnic groups in Nigeria? Even fron the article above, we can clearly see that the agreements were personal gentleman's agreements with OBJ and OBJ broke a lot of them. SO let them publish the exact nature of the agreements the had with OBJ.

Yakasai is now indirectly confessing, that MKO was not allowed to assume power after winning an election because the North was not ready to concede power to the south and was ready to go to war to maintain their hold on power. And that they only agreed to concede power to OBJ to cool down tempers and then take it back immediately after. Because from what we know OBJ was given power not as a result of a rotational agreement but to pacify the Yorubas for MKO.

Another annoying issue is the fact that the Hausa/Fulani political elites arrogantly feels that the North starts and ends with their interests, what of the hundreds of other Northerners living in the North, have they been conquered into submitting to the hausa/fulanis, and so they are not entitled to vie for the presidency.

Then i am also surprised at the acquiescence of the Yoruba's, why don't they come out and tell us if it is true that they have entered into a secrete agreement with the Hausa/Fulanis. They seem to agree with the postulations of Yakasai.

Yes, that has always been my problem with pro-life advocates, a lot of them would spend their money and resources organizing protests and campaigns, they are ready to burn down abortion clinics and hire lobbyist pass anti-abortion laws.

But they would not even give a thought for abandoned children, they drive right past orphanages without as much as take a look at the entrance. They would brush aside any of the millions of filthy abandoned kids who touches their sparkling white clothes while begging for money to eat the next meal, or the abandoned mother with her baby who begs for money in traffic in order to buy drugs for her sick baby.

They are able to have sympathy for the unborn feotus but find no sympathy whatsoever for the borned abandoned child.

Dolemite:
Lol, i have found the truth, God doesn't exist and i don't expect you to be convienced, years ago i was naive and blind just like you. . .believing there's a God in the sky, watching over me and if i don't conform to his laws he'll cast me into the firey pits of hell. . .but he loves me lmao. I only became a Christian because I was raised in a Christian home, once i got into university and had some independence, i asked my self questions about this God stuff, wasn't getting too many answers, after reading the bible doing research, finding out that there were thousands of other pagan gods with similar stories like that of Christ eg Mithra. . . the whole Catholic agenda (Crusades toturing people in the name of God, the church owning brothels, Pedophilia) and Benny Hinn's fake miracles. . .the whole religion is based on fear, i'm not afraid anymore. . .if i do something messed up, i'll hang my head in shame and take responsibility, not blaming some satan being that only exists after thousands of years of folk tales.

. . . .oh and these spiritual experiences you speak of, i have had those, now i KNOW it's all in your head psychological experiences. . .do this experiment, for one week pray to an empty water bottle, ask it for everything you need, believe in it just for that week, i garrantee you if you devote yourself wholly to this act you'll get the same spiritual experiences you did from 'god'. . .

That singular statement i bolded in red is brilliant, discovering it is like reaching Buddhahood, and you suddenly realize that you are free and free indeed. You become free from fear of God(s), satan, devils, angels, spirits, demons, witches, mammy water and lots of others. Achieving a state of fearlessness can indeed be exhilarating, you need to experience it to to the joy therein.

I remember that the first conflict i had with Christianity was how can i fear something and at the same time love it, it is a paradox. Because fear is a negative emotion often associated with danger and hated, so how could one love what you fear.

Fhemmmy:
The man has already gave the mantle to his VP to be the Acting President . . . . . . so whatever he is doing with his time out of the office, is none of our biz

Mr Fhemmmmy, I am surprised you are reasoning like a member of the "cabal" The man never gave the mantle to Jonathan as required by the constitution. In the real sense of the word, the mantle still remains with Yaradua, and the one being held by Jonathan is an illusion. The cabal can make Jonathan's mantle disappear with a mid night judgment as it cannot withstand the force of a regular court, not to talk of a midnight one. I am sure that is one of the aces up the "cabals" sleeves, should Jonathan start to misbehave.

The Defacto presidents as recognised by Law as of today is Yaradua, and until he is declared incapacitated or impeached, he remains so, and that makes it our business what he is doing with his time. No body would give a hoot one he hands over the mantle legally to Jonathan.

If the above is true, the i think Jonathan made a right decision to accede to all the cabals demands, It is unwise to fight a battle where your opponent's weapons and resources greatly outnumber your own. He needs to buy time to arm himself before he can attempt any power play.

As much as like like most of the personalities appointed by Jonathan into his advisory committee, i believe whole idea is stupid and a political mistake. Most of the members are of little political value, and wield no real power in the Nigerian power equation. I do not even know if its legal, given that most of their terms of reference is already in the purview of the FEC. So we will have two parallel organization running the government policies. Is this new committee going to use the civil service to implement policies? Will the policies come that to the FEC meetings to seek approvals? Are the members of the committee going to be paid? are they required to go to the National assembly to seek budgetary approvals? there are so many unanswered questions.

Jonathan is showing that he is a political neophyte in the power game. He should have gone to seek advice form his Godfather OBJ or IBB on how to play the power chess game or read the books, The prince and 48 laws of power. OBJ used 4 years to consolidate his hold on power using Machiavelli's principles .

You need to control certain positions before you can hold power.

You need to control the party, by making sure you control the executive positions or have the executive officers by your side. OBJ changed the PDP chairman until he had his boy there in the person of Ahmadu Alli.

You need to control the governors, because the governors control the party machinery at the state level. Also the governors control the members of the National assembly. So one you have the governors, you will have no problems from the National assembly. OBJ used Ribadu to ensure the loyalty of the governors. OBJ used one governor from each zone as sample to show the fate of a disloyal president.

You also need to control the leadership of the house, preferably the senate as these are very powerful positions. OBJ at one time was changing the senate president every year or so.

Then of course, there is the Nigeria Military. You need to have control of the command structure of the Military, especially the Army.

Jonathan has none of these, that is why he is a lame duck, waiting to be plucked anytime the Yaradua group pleases.

Since our moral cape crusaders are appalled by the statistics of 34,000 women dieing every year from abortion in Nigeria, why don't they reel out the number of children that die from simple presentable diseases like Malaria. What of the number of deaths from typhoid due to lack of clean drinking water. Then they should remember the number of deaths from road accidents on our expressways. They must also not forget deaths due to malnutrition.   

They can then then compare all these statistics so we can see which problems are the most appalling so that we can situate the abortion statistics devoid of religious and moral colourations.

Sorry, I forgot to add the number of forced abortions of actual babies and not feotuses (including even aborting the mother), as a result of the poor medicare in Nigeria. I am sure the statistics would be more appalling than the Abortion figures presented - Just ask WHO.

I am puzzled people are more passionate about abortion that about a much bigger problem - Unwanted and abandoned babies and children, which degrades the quality of our society with all its social problems. They give rise to high illiterate levels, Child labour and exploitation, child pornography and sexual slavery (which gives rise to more abortions), high crime rates, and a myriad of other problems.

I wish these people can expend more of their energies and finances in to these problem instead of trying to show off their moral convictions as being superior to others.

InesQor:
Here are some quick questions to ponder on, assuming that no sane person deliberately gets pregnant in order to terminate it:

1. Why is it that nobody discusses the emotional effects of a post-abortion procedure on the ex-mother? What about the testimonies of mothers who aborted, having made one of the most difficult decisions of their lives?

2. Are we allowed to put a knife to a living premature baby just because it is no longer located inside its mother?

3. Why are other aspects of morality/immorality freely expressed in the media but the media is quick to hush up matters on abortion as being "overflogged"?

4. The mother and the zygote-embryo-fetus are two alive entities with human DNA, two masters in a single body: do they have equal rights to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness? Is veto power a necessary factor to consider?

1. Obviously no same person would deliberately get pregnant and then decide to abort it, at the same time it is perfectly logical for a woman who unintentionally gets pregnant to decide to abort it, if she gets no physical, financial and emotional support from anybody.

2.The crux of the matter is that the fetus needs to be located in side the woman's body, that is why she wants it removed in the first place. If the fetus can locate itself elsewhere, i am sure the woman in question would not need to "abort" the fetus.

3. Abortion is a very controversial and emotional issue, so no amount of overlogging would resolve the issue.

4. The mother and Embryo are not exactly two masters in a single body, it is more like one master housing a passenger . And they have equal right to life, if one does not depend on the other to exercise that right.

You are only looking at pre-birth related moral issues, what a about post birth issues? According to your arguments, if you insist that the woman is obliged to respect the fetus right to life inside her, what of when it is out of her? is she also obliged to ensure the survival of the fetus or leave the baby to pursue its own right to survive?

As said earlier Abortion issues are complex and multi-faceted and not the over-simplification of issues as presented by you

Holy Jesus, i made a mistake in my last post, I was refering to ilosiwaju but i wrote Jagunlabi, anyway apologies to both.
I disagree with you that eastern theology is superior to western. In fact western theology was greatly influenced by eastern theology, so it is a bit difficult to separate the two.

You will agree with me that both theologies are in decline, while western theology as represented by Christianity is in decline at its cradle- Europe, eastern theology is also declining in its roots India and China.

ilosiwaju:
jagunlabi, the above quite sounds "new-agic" and quite eastern. cool sha.
@wirinet, bros, e don tey wey i see u o or na me no dey the right threads? what's up man?

How u dey Jagunlabi, life for Niger is not easy. One has to work 5 times harder to achieve what you get before. So i just browse Nairaland most of the time without making contribution.

Na wa for all these eastern theology. I tried reading up on some of them when i was younger but found it more confusing than the western religions i was running away from.

Any way, take care.

Onlytruth:
The more I look at this Danjuma choice the more I'm convinced he does not belong in a Jonathan team. Danjuma bears a widows curse I wouldn't keep him near me:



[size=14pt]Danjuma Vs Ironsi: A Widow's Curse![/size]


Former Defence Minister and Chief of Army Staff, Gen. Theophilus Yakubu Danjuma is one distinguished Nigerian whose oratorical vibrancy and intrepid outspokenness marks him out as a courageous man versed in military politics. But sometimes while expressing himself Danjuma betrays the mindset of a man unable to reconcile or come to terms with his moral and intellectual limitations. In the Nigerian politico-military tragedy one doubts if General Danjuma -- much like Babangida, Abacha, Abdulsalami or Obasanjo -- should pass off as a hero.

In an explosive interview with The Guardian newspaper in Lagos last two Sundays ago the reverberation of which has continued across the lenght and breath of Nigeria captioned: "Danjuma: My Role In Arrest And Killing of Aguiyi-Ironsi" Gen. Danjuma drew conclusions that could best de described as controversial. Though what he had to say about General Olusegun Obasanjo like his aborted third term gambit, his failure as president for eight years, his greedy acquisitions and criminal privatisation policy is already in the public domain the Aremu of Ota continues to reap whirlwind having sown vice and vile.

General Danjuma's relationship with his former boss deteriorated more because of economic interests and political differences. The former President was reportedly privy to the confiscation of Danjuma's oil bloc, a blow below the belt which Danjuma took agonizingly. In 1999 when General Abubakar wanted to re-establish democratic governance after the welcome demise of Gen. Abacha Generals Babangida and Danjuma were among those known to have drafted Olusegun Obasanjo, bankrupt and worn out after the Abacha gaol treatment, to succeed Abubakar and ensure the security of their economic interests. That was why Danjuma even threatened to proceed on exile should Obasanjo failed to be elected President.

The best PDP candidate in 1999, former Vice President Dr Alex Ekwueme, was rigged out of the PDP Jos convention. Obasanjo 'betrayed' both IBB and Danjuma in the end. Babangida's preposterous attempt to succeed Obasanjo was dealt a cruel blow by both the civil society groups and Obasanjo himself. And Danjuma fell out in 2003 with OBJ, a man reputed for his primordial vindictiveness and meanness of spirit. As Defense Minister from 1999 to 2003 Danjuma must have had something serious to say about his ex-Commander-in-chief (or Commander-in-thief?). Having worked closely with the Owu Chief in the military General Danjuma is therefore an authority in both military matters and the political tragedy Nigeriana.

For Danjuma, "Right now, we are standing still… for as long as Aremu of Ota is allowed to control the party and to manipulate things, so long will the standstill continue. We need to dis-couple Aremu from Umaru. We have to return PDP to its original constitution where we don’t have a gerontocratic and expired former head of state to sit at the centre of the affairs of the country. And we don’t have time." Few months before OBJ quit power (in February precisely) Danjuma had spit fire in Kaduna where he picked holes in the much-vaunted campaign of the then President against corruption by asking powerfully: "If a crusader is deficient in integrity, who will believe his gospel?". Today we all know that Obasanjo is not only deficient in integrity but his corruption crusade was nothing more than a smokescreen to cover up his vast corruptly-acquired empire.

Like Orji Uzor Kalu, former charismatic Governor of Abia State and the BOT Chair of the PPA Party, had advocated General Danjuma wants Olusegun Obasanjo returned to prison from where he was brought forward and imposed on the nation in search of democratic solutions to her dictatorship-imposed problems. It may take time but the atrocities of Obasanjo in power may not be overlooked at all times. A time shall definitely come when the Ota farmer would be made to answer to charges of mindless looting of the state and even alleged incest by a son Gbenga.

In the exclusive explosive interview published by The Guardian on Sunday General Danjuma was in his very best eloquent element lambasting Obasanjo and providing clues as to why and how he became "the most toxic leader" we have had since independence. Beyond Obasanjo however the retired General recounted what he knew about how late General G.T.U Aguiyi-Ironsi, former Head of State, was killed in a counter military coup d'etat by Northern officers in 1966 in Ibadan. His role in the assassination of a giant of a man known also as Ironside has been all along very unclear with some people saying he did pull the trigger that silenced General Ironsi.

Describing the assassinated former Head of State as "a useless, desk-clerk Head of State" General Danjuma went beyond what should be accepted by many in the east who still see General Ironsi as a hero. Mrs. Victoria Aguiyi-Ironsi, former First Lady, widow of the murdered Head of State took exception to the Danjuma diatribe and she poured her heart out in an interview she granted The Sun in Umuahia last weekend. Fuming with anger in a sharp bitter reaction at both official government neglect and the Danjuma reckless description of her husband forty years after his gruesome murder which provoked the 3-year pogrom against the Igbos Lady Victoria came down hard denouncing both Danjuma and the federal establishment.

Describing General Danjuma as a "blood-thirsty, wicked Igbo hater" Mrs Aguiyi-Ironsi cursed Danjuma invoking vulture to descend on his corpse and devour same. "Yes, vulture! (Banging the table…) For making such a wicked statement against my husband in the paper, that is how vulture will describe him. For a man to make that kind of statement like the kind he made in that paper, it’s vulture that will describe him. Vulture will eat his corpse", she told Shola Oshunkeye, The Sun reporter who did the interview. And continuing she declared "Yes, I have to curse him. He deserves to be cursed because I am very, very bitter. Johnny has lived all over the world with people and I have never seen anyone make reference to him that way. Vulture will answer him, not me. He will go before his God and answer for this iniquity. Vengeance is for the Lord."

Picking holes in the assertions credited to General Danjuma in The Guardian interview Mrs Victoria Aguiyi-Ironsi described Danjuma as "shameless coward and a terrible liar" who waited till the witnesses (like ADC Nwankwo) to the cruel elimination of the ex-Head of State had died before going to the press with his half truths and bare-faced lies.

Lady Victoria Aguiyi-Ironsi's anger is understandable. She remains a high-profile widow with pain in her heart, pain over a loss so painful, the loss of a dear husband and bread-winner so terrible. Trying to remind her of what went wrong four decades ago and the brutal murder of her husband in Ibadan by the Danjumas of this world should be seen as a deliberate ploy by those who see themselves as heros that they are not to re-open old wounds and strike at the fragile and tender heart of an old woman. General Danjuma deserves the curse from the widow if you ask me.

Let me end this piece by quoting the ex-First Lady when asked by the reporter to describe General Danjuma from her vintage position when the latter was only a Major in the Army: "He has been a very sly and cantankerous man all his life. He is a loner. He doesn’t move with people. He is a dangerous man. We had always suspected him to be a dangerous human being, going by his strange behaviour and the way he kept to himself most of the time". Is there any other better description?

Sunny Chris Okenwa


http://www.nigeriavillagesquare.com/articles/sunny-chris-okenwa/danjuma-vs-ironsi-a-widows-c.html

The logic presented above is more warped than space and time approaching a singularity. You have been able to stretch the truth beyond recognition.

How can you allege that General Danjuma's relationship with his former boss deteriorated more because of economic interests and political differences. The former President was reportedly privy to the confiscation of Danjuma's oil bloc, a blow below the belt which Danjuma took agonizingly. It is public knowledge that general Danjuma fell out with OBJ less than 6 months on assumption of office and is said to have resigned at least 3 times during his tenure as defense minister. He was clearly not part of the kitchen cabinet of OBJ. The oil block seizure came up after 2007 and it was mainly due to his opposition of third term. OBJ punished every body whose opposed his third term project economically or politically and rewarded supporters handsomely.

Please explain how Ekwueme was rigged out. Was it Ekwueme himself that complained that he was rigged out? You people are so inconsistent that a chameleon's colour possess more stability. It is you people who scream turn by turn and rotational presidency and at the same time you talk about rigging someone out. It is public knowledge that OBJ was released from prison specifically to assume the presidency as a compensation for June 12, so any other thing that took place was "film trick" by actors including Ekwueme.

So Orji Uzor Kalu is your idea of a charismatic leader, and you say that you are not a chronic tribalist. Maybe you should campaign for him for presidency.  Since to you he is more credible than Danjuma.

The only issue against Danjuma is the Ironsi episode, and that was during coups and war situation. A lot of atrocities happens during these situation. Tafawa balewa  and Ahmadu Bello ware alleged to have been assassinated by Igbo soldiers and a lot of other atrocities had been committed during the various coups, counter coups and alleged coups, by most senior retired military officers. That is why we should resist illegal take over of government and prosecute anyone who attempts it.

I understand Mrs Ironsi's point of view and the pains she suffers especially  with Danjuma opening old wounds. And i believe it was insensitive of him to bring up the issue again, just like IBB did with Vasta. I believe we should be reconciling past mistakes instead of opening up old wounds.

Since your hatred for Danjuma is blinding, then who do you suggest, have better credentials? Remember he must be from the North (because of turn by turn arrangement), be acceptable by the northern elites and their southern counterpart, have no godfather and can keep the military in check.

RESCUER:
Abortion is nothing but the denial of the so called foetus to see d light of the day and av d chance to live.

Not every fetus is meant to see the light of the day. In evolutionary terms, the number of fetus that survives and becomes an adult depends on the dangers it will face, both as a fetus and a young animal. An animal that has its fetuses exposed to the environment and without parental protection for the young like fishes, needs to provides thousands and sometimes hundred of fetuses, and in most cases less than 100 survives to adult hood. A toad that lays eggs in a pond, also lays thousands and most cases less than 10 live to adulthood. Birds who lay eggs in protected nest and protects its young lay between 10 - 20 eggs depending on dangers posed by its predators. An eagle that virtually has no predator also lays very few eggs.

Same applies with mammals, animals with no predator and is able to provide enough safety for its fetuses and young ones need very few fetuses.

We humans have been able to provide the most security for both our fetuses and young one. So having just one fetus is enough, as it is almost certain the fetus will survive to adulthood. ( except you are in Nigeria, with appalling infant mortality rates). In fact we have even outnumbered many other mammals that have multiple fetuses like dogs and cats.

I hope people are not annoyed at my digression from the main topic, i am only trying to put this issue of the idea that a fetus must see the light of day in a broader perspective.

jagunlabi:
Be still and know that i am."I am" being the true self, the atman, is usually covered up by all the static noise of the ego or the false self.

Can you please explain further. What is atman ?

Hello Deep sight, I like your signature " be still", but can you explain further what you mean by it. I love the quote " be still, and know that i am within" and in fact, is one of my favourite verses in the Bible. The way i understand it is that, "i am" is your inner self and you cannot get in touch with your inner self unless you are still and quiet (meditate and contemplate). The new christian christian practices as adopted by Africans is too noisy and cacophonous and so lacks the vital connection with "I am". And that is what i believe is responsible for the confusion of both the individual christian and the Church, in relation his obligations to himself, his immediate surroundings and the larger society as a whole.

forpeace:
Ty Danjuma? ?a wasted rich glutton at the expense of yound rich minds like rufai and ribadu?

we must resist this danjuma idea at all cost. .i think we need a Say no to a Danjuma vice presidency rally. . .what insult!

If TY Danjuma is a wasted rich glutton, then tell me who among the ruling elite is a useful poor hungry man. El rufai and Ribadu? you must be a jester, what is the antecedents of these two, what have they done to warrant them any of them president and commander-in chief of the Nigerian armed forces?. And besides El rufai is also a wasted rich glutton, given the no. of properties he is alleged to have acquired.

We need a person that has no controversy tied to his name, a person that is not a godson to OBJ, someone that is respected by the Military, the northern political elite, the southern political elite and the international community. General Theophilus Danjuma (rtd) is that person.

toba:
Anyhow we see dis topic morally/religiously abortion is a murder.
For instance abortion is mostly done by unmarried folks i.e BF&G.FRIEND. Morally a guy knows his not going to marry alady yet wants to enjoy intimacy.In d process unwanted pregnancy comes in&next is abortion.Why shd a guy date a lady for fun?
Abortion is a murder,imagine if a pregnancy is terminated,do we know what d child could become if allowed to survive?
Jeremiah said in d bible,Jeremiah1:5 God addressed him dat b4 'i formed u in d womb,i knew u&i av appointed u a prophet.If he had been aborted would he av become a prophet? If we abort,do we know how many Obamas,clinton,Awolowos,Azikwes,Tafawa balewa dat would be killed?

Abortion is carried out by couples (mainly women), who are unprepared to cater for a pregnancy or a baby, especially in depressed economies like Nigeria. The problem is my friend we become sexually active and want to enjoy intimacy before we are ready for marriage. And most of the time an average person is not ready for marriage until he or she is in their late twenties or even early thirties.  So how do you expect them to suppress their sexual energies from the age of 18 when they are legally allowed to have intimacy.

Those people became great mostly because they had the love and support of their Parents and families, they would have had a difficult time if they were dumped into a gutter.  The consequences of outlawing abortion would be greater than allowing it. I have personally seen a newly born baby float by the Lagos lagoon behind Bar beach, and the memory still hunts me today ,and that was over 10 years ago. My wife said she had seen a new born dumped in a dust bin and covered with ants, while on her way to school when she was younger.luckily the baby was saved and taken to a hospital.

George_D:
evolution, did you say? ha! its amazing how we claim to be enlightened people and yet allow ourselves to be deceived by elusive theories!

Evolution, an elusive theory? Are you joking?. Please as an enlighten person, give me an alternative theory to explain the millions of species of living things (flora and fauna) on earth or a university that teaches an alternative theory.

Hell no!!! how can you compare abortion to murder. Before i continue my comment, i must introduce myself as an Evolutionist, so you will understand that my views are not from the selfish and very narrow moral views expressed by religionists.

From the evolutionary and socio-economic (read  Malthus Population Theory) point of view abortion play a crucial role in modern society.

Here is a snippet from his theory;

Malthus argued that population is held within resource limits by two types of checks: positive checks, which raise the death rate; and preventative ones, which lower the birth rate. The positive checks include hunger, disease and war; the preventative checks, abortion, birth control, prostitution, postponement of marriage, and celibacy.[26] Regarding possibilities for freeing man from these limits, Malthus argued against a variety of imaginable solutions. For example, he satirically criticized the notion that agricultural improvements could expand without limit:

You can read further http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Robert_Malthus

First I believe it is morally wrong to force a woman to go through the trauma of pregnancy and an even greater problem of raising a child, unless she is Physiologically, psychologically, and physically ready and willing. Forget the arguments about self control, when the hormones are overactive, nothing can control sexual activity (unless we have good societal sexual valves like early and easy marriages, other avenues for releasing sexual energies like prosti-tution, condoms usage, etc.) An unwanted child brought into the world today by an unwilling mother or family posses far greater risk to the society at large that having the child aborted in the first place.

We humans - Homo sapiens have been been so successful evolutionarily especially since the last ice age that our population has exploded and infact have put the world ecosystem out of equilibrium. We are beginning to consume more than the ecosystem can provide, even with our improved agriculture. Then there is the energy needs and living space requirements of our exponentially growing population, which will require that we cut down more trees, that are very important for maintaining the worlds temperature and oxygen levels and reducing green house CO2 gas. If our population continues to increase at the present levels, we will hit 12 billion by the end of this century or early next century, which will be twice our present population. So what i am saying is that the number of fetus aborted would have no appreciable impact on human population increase. Further more i want the UN to take population control seriously (like China is trying to do), because the single post important threat to world peace and stability in the long run is population explosion.

People are talking about the morality of killing a fetus, and they term it a living person. If so what about the millions of sperms wasted by the man or the eggs wasted by the woman, would you call that natural murder. The problem is, when can a fetus said to be a legal living entity? Is it on the day of conception? 8 weeks after conception, when there is a heart beat, 6 months after conception when the baby is fully formed or just before birth. I think that question needs to be answered before one can talk of murder.

I like the way Krayola is taking a wider perspective on the issue. Yes animals are vary important in the wider scheme of things and anything that applies to us also applies to animals and plants as well, after all we share this planet together.

nethacker:
wat r u sayin mr MAN

That Jonathan acting presidency just like the Shonekan Government is illegal and unconstitutional. And that the National assembly has powers to impeach Yaradua and Jonathan automatically becomes president and C in C, but they do not have powers to make Jonathan acting president. And the Yaradua's kitchen cabinet has the Laws on their side, because Yaradua can say that he did not inform the National assembly that he is on medical vacation, so how did Jonathan become acting president?

mikeansy:
Pure lie!!! The legality of the NASS resolution is not for Yar'adua to unilaterally ignore. If he believes Jonathan is not legally acting President then there are obvious legal means to challenge that. We are not a huge Motor Park run by thugs even though it seems so.

It took a NASS resolution to declare Jonathan Acting President

It will take another NASS resolution to declare Yar'adua President again if he is fit. Except he chooses to go to court to challenge the NASS resolution in the first place.

What is pure lie, That there is a section of the 1999 constitution that allows a resolution to declare a vice president as acting president? Yaradua does not need to go to court before he perform his duties, he is the defacto president. A national assembly resolution is just that - A Resolution, it is not legally binding. The Nigerian army and the armed forces are not bounded to resolutions, they are only bounds by Laws passed by the National assembly after accent (or not) by the president. The same way a National assembly cannot just wake up one day and pass a resolution to appropriate money without going through the full process of law making.

So who do you think the Armed forces will obey, Yaradua, Jonathan or the National assembly?

This is what you get when you "elect" nincompoops as legislators. All this yaradua nonsense was because we have legislators who do not know their jobs and are only interested in "Ghana must go" bags.

I am sorry to say, but the Jonathan Goodluck acting presidency is Illegal and he is not the commander- in - chief of the armed forces. The real C-in C is back. As long as Yara dua did not write the National assembly that he is on vacation, or the National assembly did not impeach him or declare in Incapacitated, then he remains our president dead, alive or in a coma. That is the Nigerian constitution and the army swears to uphold it. As i have always said here, the National assembly has no powers to declare anybody as acting president, just like the state house of assembly has no power to declare anybody acting Governor.

Where are all the people who scream Giant of Africa, greatest black nations, G20, and all sort of empty boasts. Our president is in the custody ofthe Saudi King, and it is only he that can determine what the president does or does not do, who he sees and does not see, what he eats and what treatment he gets. No Nigerian doctor or official is allowed to see the president - not even his personal physician or health minister. We should all be ashamed of ourselves. We should just be regarded as a colony of Saudi Arabia.

So we will just wake up one morning and hear the death of our president from the King of Saudi Arabia with no explanation of how and why he died.

Beaf,

I am from the Nigerdelta and in fact my village has 13 oil wells, so i am very bitter that the so called "Federal Government" meaning very few people in Abuja, just seize the land and hand it over to cronies from the north who have and will probably not set foot on the lands given to them. Now that is not the subject of our debate today.

The subject matter is T Y Danjuma. And i say that within human expectations T Y Danjuma had been enviable. He was the 3rd highest person in government and in fact was given the head of state on a platter after the assassination of Muritala, but he decided to hand over to Obasanjo and Musa Yaradua (a junior officer). When OBJ enacted the obnoxious Land Use act to seize land in the NigerDelta, he did not use undue influence to benefit himself. It was in fact over 15 yrs after he left government that Abacha allocated the oil block to him. And he did not even support Abacha publicly, in fact he was instrumental to helping get rid of Abacha. Most people in Government( especially from the west and east) today were strong supporters of Abacha. He was instrumental in bringing OBJ from prison to presidency because he believed in OBJ, but fell out on principle barely 6 months after joining the government. He only stayed to the end of the first term based on pleadings from people. During his reign at the ministry of defense, we did not hear of a single scandal (ask Ribadu).

So his major crime now is to tell the world that he made $500million from the sale of an oil block allocated to him?

If is Danjuma lacks integrity can you list 3 Nigerians that have more integrity? Maybe Awolowo, MKO Abiola and Dangote.

I wonder why people are crucifying T. Y Danjuma for having the courage to come out and tell the truth - Oh i forgot Nigerians abhors the truth, we are in love with lies and liars. No body among our revered billionaires had opened up on how they made their billions and this includes our "men of god", our politicians, our royal fathers and even our so called business men. Yet we shower praises on Mike Adenuga, Dangote, etc, without caring how they made their first billions.

Danjuma had been a man of integrity and had not been implicated or even suspected by any body or any organization during any of his public service.

Yes, i quarrel with the practice of allocating oil blocks to people outside of the Niger delta while leaving the people who owned the land  with nothing, but Danjuma did not create the situation. That is the anomality within the Nigerian federation we must fight against. Danjuma is not expected to refuse the oil block as i know of no human on earth that would do so.

I believe Danjuma show vie for the presidency if his health permits as he is the least controversial among the leading candidiates. He is a northerner, so that would satisfy the mythical zoning arrangement, he is a christian, he is completely detribalized and he is well respected within the military and even the civil society organizations.

pres-elect:
i beg to disagree. nigeria is not america. our democracy. . . . if u call this democracy . . is fragile. infact our existence as a nation, is fragile. we have fragments of the nation that would love to go away and form their own nation. we are in an age whereby people dont identify the president as their president but as dem-dem and if the president is fro one's ethnic group any attack on the president is an ethnic attack.

rotational presidentcy will give every unit in the country a sense of belonging and in our fragile nation that is very very vital. if igbos know that anyhow anyhow someday e go reach their turn, the agenda of massob would die slowly. same for niger-delta,mid-belt,yoruba etc yorubas first thought of seceession when abiola was denied.

dont tell me that we need the best to get to president bc u and i know that it doesnt happen and has never happened in nigeria and by the way who determines who is best candidate. it is a subjective assessment. i strongly believe that there is a capable hand for the president in every state in this country. if someone like bush can be president of the US there are people more intelligent than Bush or Clinton in every state in this country.

lets rotate it for peace at least for 100yrs when we will have a generation of nigerians who are better integrated and educated and democratised

I strongly disagree with you about your definition of Democracy except you want to give us a different definition. Rotation is a panacea for anarchy in the long run. There are over 350 ethnic groups in the country and about 10 major ethnic groups. So how will your rotate it between the ethnic groups? are we going to stick to just the 3 major ones and disenfranchise all other groups?

It is painful that in the people are still using ethnic sentiment to assume power. If power must be rotated between ethnic groups, what about religious groups as the Christians had been highly marginalized in the power arrangement. What about Gender, should not power rotate between the sexes too as the feminine population out number the male.

The motivation for all these rotation nonsense is to give one ethnic group undue advantage in the sharing of the National cake within the power elite. The day oil runs out and we have to work for each dollar we spend, you will see rotational presidency disappear.

why should rotation stop with the presidency? What about rotational governor, senator, honourable, chairman and chancellor. Should it not also be practiced in the civil service? DGs, permanents secretaries, directors and so on, after all, what is good for the goose, is also good for the gander.

ode remo:
where on earth did you get this kind of political table tennis from, as if Nigeria  and her ppl are nothing but a game of ludo. our future is in our hand . pdp was bent on taking Lagos state during last election with koro but look at what happened.

If you are old enough you will realize that the Political elites of Nigeria sees Nigeria as a Game of Ludo since after independence, since the average Nigerian refuses to take his destiny into his own hands and decides to leave it in the hands of the politician, the traditional ruler and the religious leaders.

PDP deliberately left Lagos because Lagos is the commercial centre and holds a very strategic position in Nigeria. Apart from the fact that a massively rigged election would be very obvious as almost all the media resides there including international media.
A highly flawed election in Lagos alone would render the entire election flawed in the eyes of the international community.

Why was is so easy for PDP to rig in Oyo state, even though the people did not want Adedibu and Alao Akala?

2tait:
Jonathan is Acting President not President.

He does not require an Acting Vice President.

Please can you explain it to me the constitutional process of a vice becoming an acting president and if it requires a proclamation/resolution/vote (by ayes and nays) from the National Assembly?

After you help me out with that, can you explain if Jonathan would be acting president indefinitely as the said broadcast did not specify how long the president would be away from office.

So are you telling me that the post of the Vice president should be vacant until the end of this tenure (assuming Yaradua is unable to recover)

juliesanto:
My fellow Nairalanders, lets try as much as we can to vote PDP out in the next coming election. please we should not sale out votes.

My sister you cannot vote out PDP without a revolution, They are still perfecting their rigging machinery, the Anambra Elections (and Ekiti) was a test run. They allocate some states to the opposition so as not to make the whole thing look like a one party system. They will probably allocate 2 states in the east, 2 states in the west, maybe 1 state in the South-South and maybe three or four states in the north and that will be the extent of their generosity. They are sure of sweeping the National polls, that is why the legislators and Governors do not care what the electorate think of them, as long as they are in the good books of the PDP executive officers.

The sudden U-turn by first the Governor's Forum, who before now had opposed the official hand over of power to Jonathan as acting president, the complete metamorphoses of the National Assembly including the northern members and the panic within Yaradua's close family members within the last few days, means there must be further deterioration of yaradua's health status.
The conclusion i can draw from all these is that it had become obvious that Yaradua is not coming back soon, and people with privy information are positioning themselves to take advantage. Bukola Saraki (who is very close t the yaradua family) is the engine room of the whole thing, he must be positioning himself for a bigger political job in the next dispensation.

I think the Game plan is to limit the power of Jonathan by resisting his becoming president by making him acting president perpetually until the next general election. This is to avoid him having the full powers to take over the party machinery so that he will have little say in who becomes the next president. Also as acting president, i doubt he will be allowed to change the cabinet, if he attempts to he would be resisted by the party and the FEC.

My greatest fear is that even if Yaradua dies before the next elections, i am sure that these people can decide to hide the information from Nigerians and "hibernate" the body until after the elections. It is a shame that they have been able to hide his true state of health up till now.

So how long can Jonathan be acting president? Can he act until May 2011? How long will it take before Yaradua can be declared incapacitated by having a team of medical doctors examine him? we wait and see.

Another related issue is if a Northerner takes over power as is being schemed, how long with the person hold power? 4 years or 8 years. Would any body be able to stop the incumbent in 2015 from coming back? What would then happen to the 8 year power rotation formula we are told is supreme to the constitution.

Answered badly needed.