₦airaland Forum

noetic16:
1. Last time I checked, we are in the 21st century and not the 20th  

2. Sir, this is NOT a xtian bashing thread. so it does not matter how "contradicting" u find the concept of God. the question is that. .  .  .does the complex intelligent nature of the universe, DNA and life support the existence of a super-intelligent creator?

My apologies, it is the 21st century, it was an error due to my working and trying to post at the same time.

Noetic, i honestly do not find pleasure in religious arguments, like political arguments, it always leads to a dead end. Each person is caged in his mental universe and anything outside universe is forbidden no matter how logical or obvious it is.
The only time i feel compulsion to respond to post is when someone arrogantly attempts to denigrate others because they hold a completely different view from their acquired beliefs. They then exhibit a feeling of being special and others less than special, or they take on a moral high ground and see any other opinion immoral. That is why i have an aversion (apologies to davidylan) for religious fundamentalists.

I wish they can be contented and satisfied with their personal beliefs and allow other to their personal beliefs no matter how ridiculous it might sound. If a person like let him take a piece of stone and decides to make that a representation of his God, it is his/her right. But it should not lead to hatred, bigotry and discrimination.

I know they is a lot of resentment for atheists, and some tend to view them as less that humans and not worthy to live. The truth is that atheist cannot be wished away, except you want them to go underground as was the case of Christianity in the beginning.  

Noetic, you cannot build a religious cage and expect everybody to trap that person one step at a time. You first ask a person to enter the theist trap by believing in the existence of Gods, then you steer the person to believe in your own particular God, then to your own particular denomination as opposed to Cele or Catholic, and finally you want the person to have your own interpretation of your denominational views. In fact you want other people to become you before you are comfortable interacting with them.

Accept people for what they are, your beliefs is not superior to that of the Buddhist or Ifa worshipper. Every body holds a belief that is in harmony with himself.

toba:
What then can u call atheist that says theres no God without being able to proof his non Existence?

Please listen to your self, you guy keep regurgitating ridiculous arguments. How can you prove non existence of anything. I you can, then please prove the non existence of vampires, santa claus and Jupiter (the God), while at it have a go at proving the non existence of aliens from the Andromeda galaxy, a 10th planet in the solar system and a civilization living in the centre of the sun.

karo93:
@wirinet
i do not advocate that you must worship God infact you can damn him but to say he doesn't exist is the pinnacle of foolishness

I for one had never advocated that you stop worshiping your God, and you can praise him/her/it till eternity, but to worship an imaginary entity with no definition, which you have never seen or heard, but depend on the stories and account of unknown people from another civilization, age and time, is the height of delusion and psychosis.

frosbel:
What are you talking about ?


I am man not a woman, so does not apply to me.

I did not imply that you were a woman. Most abortions are performed with the permission, prompting and sponsorship of the responsible man

frosbel:
Factually incorrect.

Worldwide [b]foeta[/b]l abortions annually - 30 Million

Worldwide malaria deaths annually - approximately 1.5 Million

So are you telling me that 30 million [b]foetal [/b]abortions is inconsequential ?

Agreed both cases are sad , but you cannot trivialise any one of them for the illogical reason which presumes that there is no God or if there is he does not care an iota.

I have helped you factually correct your post. Foetus have never been termed babies in any language and in any academic discipline.
How are you able to compile the world wide abortion statistics, as most abortions are carried our illegally behind dark alleys, because of religious fundamentalists like you. where is your source?

I think it would be more fruitful for you to expend your resources fighting real pressing problems like world hunger, deceases, ignorance than by taking the moral high ground by fighting women who privately had sex in the privacy of their bedroom and decided privately that they do not want to have babies, and so privately decides to abort the foetus in a private clinic.

It is their bodies, it is their foetus, so why are you so obsessed. even in religious countries, abortion is illegal for what it is - Abortion, and had never been equated with the murdering of a human being, not to talk of equating abortion to genocide.

It is amazingly shocking that full grown men living in the 20th century can believe such outlandish things like Gods.  Some believe their God is three in one or it it one in three, there even believe one of the three came as a human being suffer,beaten and be killed by mere men, in order for the other part of himself to forgive mankind, even though he can not actually die.

The other religions are just a preposterous, they are mere political tools of subjugation and exploitation of fellow human beings.

Religious people especially the Abrahamic  variation, is close to mass hysteria mixed with psychosis. The greatest plague that has afflicted mankind and still afflict mankind is Religion and it destructive, wicked, egocentic and intolerant Gods.

frosbel,

I think you are just wallowing in your moral euphoria. I do not know how women that chooses to abort their fetuses concern you to the level of obsession. If hate abortion, then don't do it.

If you are so concerned about human death especially infant mortality, you should be more concerned about killer diseases like malaria. It is estimated that 1.5 to 2.7 million deaths is caused by malaria annually, with over 90% of deaths being children under 5. So you should open a thread venting your anger at poor and corrupt heath services  obtainable in developing countries like Nigeria.

That is more genocidal that abortion, and we are not even talking of abandoned children yet.

For more information read this
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol4no3/nchinda.htm

The saying that religion is the opium of the people is false.
It should be religion is far more deadly than opium, it is the most potent drug ever concocted by man, once you are hooked there is not escape. At least with opium you can seek help in a drug rehabilitation program. With religion your mind stand little chance of being detoxified.

k-luv:
dear poster,my candid advice:dont marry him,danger looms ahead.forget everything about him and move ahead,wit the way he's reasoning,he's a devil incarnate.wise up so as not to have eternal regret.you can't throw away your family,pastor,community love just becos you want to marry "prince charming",it doesnt work that way

From the comfort of your living room, you can see danger in someone marrying another person, both of whom you have never met. You must be clairvoyant.

If he is devils incarnate, what would you call yourself - God incarnate?. You need to exorcise negative thoughts against people who are different from you or hold different views from you. You need not carry the baggage of hatred and  fear for people different from you.

Why can she not throw away family, pastor, community because of her love for prince charming and have a chance to live happily ever after. There are so many examples of it everyday, bot in real life and in fairy tales. Bianca is just one example.

I am sorry to say but you sound like a very insecure person, who needs to demonize other people in order to feel a sense of self worth.

davidylan:
Just absolutely daft reasoning. Sorry to say.

I'm sure you own a dictionary . . . look up the word "aversion" . . . its NOT the same as "hate" . . . a word i never used.

I wrote this - your bf has a serious aversion to anything christianity. How is that the same as saying that her bf hates CHRISTIANS as individuals?

You didnt need to quote her entire post, you simply needed to pay attention to details and stop being a dishonest nuisance.

And where did i make such a claim?

If you cant see it then you have a serious problem with honesty . . . read again . . . Anytime i come back from Church and talk about my pastor or what i was taught, he gets very angry. He doesnt like hearing anything about pastors, churches, tithes and sermons

why does he get VERY ANGRY anytime the discussion has to do with "church" or "christianity"? What is it about christianity that makes him act in a way TOTALLY ALIEN to his usual character?

Nah . . . folks like you couldnt pick about an argument even if it were made by a 2 yr old.

I swear arguing with you is like arguing with child. You pick one statement of a whole post to attempt to support you argument and leave out all the ones that says he accommodates her religious views.

The statement says he gets very angry about what is taught by her pastor at the same time he does not like hearing about pastors, churches, tithes and sermons, immediately you equate that to hatred, sorry aversion to Christianity. It did not even talk about God or Christ.

I know many Christians on Nairaland that has aversion for those same topics, people like kunleoshob, does that make them have aversion for Christianity too.

Since you, as you say; the signs were there all along. your bf has a serious aversion to anything christianity., then you should be happy that people on Nairaland like you have made our sister see the light, so she should in your opinion allow the guy waka.

davidylan:
wirinet, i'm sorry but this is extreme and blind stu.pidity from you. you talked about "morbid hatred" for the atheist . . . where did you observe that in this line?

the signs were there all along. your bf has a serious aversion to anything christianity.

I based that claim on sia fuller's own comments and that is a FACT. He gets unecessarily angry and agitated whenever she makes the mistake of bringing up a christian discussion . . . an attitude he does not display towards anything else.

So WHERE did you find the "morbid hatred" against the atheist there?

Seriously many of you have a severe psychological problem bothering on your own spiritual confusion. Trying to blame that on everyone else who has a different opinion of you is a FARCE.

I think the mare mention of atheist did not allow you to read and comprehend what was written, i will post the whole post again so you can show me where Sia Fuller claimed her boyfriend hates Christianity;

I am an Avid reader of Nairaland and i have never bothered to comment but to enjoy the comments and advices of others i relationship matters but i think i now need your assistance before i lose the plot.

I have been dating this guy for a while now and honestly speaking without exaggerating too much, he is the most perfect man to me. He is tall, dark, handsome, hardworking and very kind to a fault. He helps people at will and takes no offence whatso ever at my excesses except i over do it to a fault and instead of getting mad at me to hit me or abuse me, he just walks away for an hour or 2 and comes back as if nothing happens. The only snag i have with him is that he is an atheist and doesnt believe in God whatso ever. I am a very strong Christian and i didnt take it as anything at first when he was trying to date me. I saw it as a juvenile boy's thing and maybe misguided and my purpose was to date him to make him change his ways and believe in God, but instead he has kept steadfast to his belief of not believing in God and hating anything about religion but apart from that, he is everything a girl could want in a man or more.

Since i have known him, he doesnt smoke or drink or party, move around with unserious or bad friends. He has never cheated on me  and promised to never do so because its not his nature. He hasn't hit me before and also swore the day that he hits me mistakenly i should stab him and dump him there and then because he doesnt appreciate Men who beat women. He takes care of me and sometimes even cook for me when ever i come to his place. He even paid close to N300,000 for my hospital bills when i had a surgery and he stayed with me most of the time. I know he truely and genuinely loves me but this issue of his religion and atheism is my only problem with him. He has even driven me to church on so many occassions when it rains or when am going for Night Virgil but he never comes down or attends it and he sometimes comes back to pick me up when i am done.

He blatantly refuses to change. My pastor dislikes him so much and sees him as a bad influence to me because he says anybody that is not of the spirit and with the spirit of God is a temptation to be cut loose. My Mom doesnt even want to hear anything about him until he renounces his  atheism but she hasnt complained about him concerning anything else. My Dad has warned me not to bring a devil to his house hold and sees him as a Devil's incarnate and spritually unclean. He even promised to disown me if i ever call him my financee talkless of bringing home as a potential husband. Most of my female friends drool over him and tell me how lucky i am to meet such a good man while others warn me that he is demonic and i should stay away from him because he doesnt believe in God.

The thing is that he is very brilliant and intelligent and when you hear him speak sometimes he could be so mesmerizing when denouncing religion and the bible or Koran as mere propagandas and fictional works. There was even a day some people in my fellowship came to meet him to pray and convert him and it turned into a debate and he ended up winning the argument and making us question or faith back in a total reversal of roles. He is very unsparing and merciless when it comes to things of God, Bible or religion and makes no apologises for it. Apart from that, he is a total kitty cat. Calm, collected, mature, responsible and humble. 2 days ago he jokingly made a feeble attempt to propose to me  but added a clause that we would only do a registry marriage and not church wedding because he cant stand the site of the hypocrisy of christianity and the church but he would go out of his way to make sure i have a memorable wedding @ the registry and reception. He tells me that prayers dont work and only daft and lazy people believe in prayers. He says you don't have to be a christian to be kind, compassionate and honest and to help people. He says its human nature and the society that dictates how we think and act and he chooses to be someone that is kind and honest to people and not attribute it to one God or Church. Anytime i come back from Church and talk about my pastor or what i was taught, he gets very angry. He doesnt like hearing anything about pastors, churches, tithes and sermons but when you get into a biblical argument with him, its as if he knows the bible inside out and the right quotes without even reading it. He is that articulate.

For the past 2 days i have been in a dilema now. He wants to marry me i believe and i love him seriously to bits. I have dated other so called born again or spiritually filled guys in my past that messed me up so badly and i know alot of men use this as a bait to catch women and end up showing their true colors later on. My boyfriend is not disguising who he is in terms of his spirituality but he is offering me this unconditional love which i have seen and no man has given me despite their promises. My only fear is that my parents will see me as an out cast, my friends dont like him for it, my pastor and church members loathe him for being an athiest and dislike more everyday i am with him. If i go ahead with my choice to stick with him, i lose my soul and my community but gain happiness because he has truely being a wonderful man so far but if i leave him for my friends, family and community i might lose my prince charming that every woman dreams of that loves me dearly.

I am really confused and i have to make a decision quickly. Please help advise me. Please no nasty comments too i beg you. Hope we can be civil with this.

P:S: I will be 30 in September.

So where in this post shows a hatred for Christianity by the boyfriend.  Is it the parts i highlighted?

Please read it again and then tell me what is said was a hatred for christianity or a hatred for what the pastor taught. At least you said you have a PHD, so you should be able to read and comprehend.

Here i was sitting quietly in my office until my life was altered due to something silly my supposedly fiancee wrote exposing ourlives for no just cause and setting me up for christians who dont know me to insult me to the highest heavens. If she even spoke to me about this, i wont be this demoralized and shakey at work reading all these evil statements made by people calling me this things. Why would she go this far to do it. And your saying i shouldnt blame her. You all forget the 6 pages of insults that strangers from no where have been pouring on me and the people that know me reading this. How far this write up would go is something else. From all your advices she is getting married to a devil because i am not a christian, why should i just let her be in peace since that would stop all these slanderous statements and let me be. We have done so many things together as a couple and this issue of the christian or no christian thing has never cropped up until now on the internet. How would you feel if it were you that you just woke up one morning and found your life being the centre of the storm for no just cause. Do you guys forget things easily? Have you not gone through all the name calling and atheist bashing due to her story. Why should she do this and your telling me i should chill and am childish because she praised me. What sort of praise is that? If she truely loved me why should she lay me out bare for people to castigate me because of my views and these people dont even know me. What sort of advice is she looking for that we havent weathered together for 4 years and we are still going on. In fact what ever. Am done with this episode. Whatever. I will fulfill her wishes so that this castigations will end and i will be in peace. Because there is no way i can ever forgive her for this humilation and if we are even together back, this issue will now truely rise every now and then. It was never an issue to me but it will now be an issue to me. I will have to accept that religious discrimination is truely alive and i am an endangered specie because of my views. I was deluded it will work and was planning to make sure it works to prove people wrong. I accept i was betting on the wrong horse and for those insulting Labake, she has done more for me today that i could imagine. Showing me this website makes me appreciate her more. I could have continued living a false life with Sia and not knowing she had the capacity to stab me in front of strangers. Now i know better and who i can truely call my friends.

@Be who u r,  

How do you do my brother, i am very sorry for what you are made to go though. I understand exactly how you feel. I am an atheist myself, and i am married to a "Born Again" Christian. So the religious differences cannot just be wished away, you will have to learn to deal with it, whether you marry Sia Fuller, another christian or any other religious faithful. Even in marriage, the woman would sometime get uncomfortable with the social stigma associated with atheists and non - church goers. As you know church going satisfy a social need in a woman's  life  and it would be difficult for your woman imagining going to church and joining the married women group, without her husband by her side. I am sure these are some of the things going through your woman's mind.

You two needs to sit down alone and talk, about what is actually bothering her. The religious issue might just be an excuse for more fundamental issue. After all, from what i have read in this post, you have not given her an engagement ring yet. If the only problem is the religious differences, then i do not see any problem. Just make your real intention known and arrange to introduce your selves formally to each others families.

You have invested over four years of your life in this relationship, i do not think something like this should be the issue that would break it up. Believe me, when you eventually get married more serious issues would come up.

Do not mind the Christians that equate same religion or same church to marital bliss, survey shows as much divorce and infidelity between marriages of couples of the same religion as marriages between cooples of different religions.

davidylan:
the signs were there all along. your bf has a serious aversion to anything christianity.

Davidylan, at times you are so annoying and insensitive that it is a wonder you advertise yourself as a christian. If you are an example of a christian, i thank god i am not one. You see a lady going through an emotional turmoil and all that blinds you is your morbid hatred for atheist. I think you might make it as a suicide bomber against atheists.

@ Sia fuller,

I blame you greatly for the predicament you are passing through now, you should not have brought such important personal matter to an internet forum like this, because as you have painfully found out, you cannot control the outcome of things. The best you should have done once you made the mistake of posting was to at least moderate the forum so as to protect your loved one from insults and abuses. Me for one cannot take insults.

If religion was an issue bothering you, you should have had a heart to heart with your man. And if it is your Parents that is the problem, you should have talked to your mother or close aunties to take care of the family aspect. Although i do not understand the stance of your family, since you have been together for 4 years and he had help them a lot in taking care of some of their responsibilities. If it your pastor that is the problem, you should have ignored them, a lot of pastors have been responsible for lots of broken relationships and marriages, most times either the pastor or someone close to the pastor has vested interest in ending the relationship, especially when the church member is a promising young fine lady or gentleman, while the other party is from another church denomination or religion.

Sia Fuller:
I dont even know what to do again. Something so harmless as a post to ask for a personal advise in respect of an issue i was trying to clarify has turned into a nightmare for me. Since yesterday i have been calling him he is not answering. My Parents have heard through my brother and while i was expecting them to be elated, they have kept an uneasy silence. My brother has been accusing me of trying to poision his future since my boyfriend assisted him with his NYSC runs and am in the middle of all these things that i cant even lay my finger on what i have done and i have been trying to make him know i meant no harm humilating him in public. Worst still i went to his house this morning and he instructed the Mallam not to allow me access. He sent me a text stating since i have told the world he is an atheist, he will be better off mingling with his fellow atheists than for him to be subjected to such condemnations publicly when we both agreed to keep things private. Am a total wreck since yesterday and am gradually losing my mind.

If he is reading this or if any one can help connect with him to tell him that it was not intended the way he is seeing it. I have never seen him so upset like this before and worse things have happened that he hasnt even remotely acted like this. I really dont know what to do again and what triggered him to be so angry and upset ! i didnt wake up 2 days ago planning to destroy our future but i was looking for a way to strengthen it but it has turned into a total reversal. Where do i start from. The Devil really knows how to worm his way into people's heart. I have never posted on Nairaland and against my better judgement i decided to do it rather it leading into a crisis of immense proportion. Nobody would understand what he has done for me over the years and i never expected people to criticiize him the way they did thats why i asked for mature comments not insults. What do i do now.

I am a bit disappointed by what i highlighted above. You mean to say that you did not know what made him to be so upset? So you claim ignorance of the emotional trauma of what your post has caused someone you claim to love. Even your Bible which you claim to believe says you must admit your mistakes and then ask to be forgiven. If it was me that is made to endure so much insult and ridicule by strangers on very personal emotional issue, i honestly do not know i will react.

If you really love him, then you have to make up your mind if you really want to marry him ( i am almost certain your pastor has a candidate for you). If the answer is yes, then you have t fight to have him back. You will have to ask you mother or a prominent aunty for assistance. If you guys are to get married, then you will need to practice some conflict resolution. If you enlist your mother or a prominent aunt to follow you to his house, at least he will grant you audience, to allow you mend things.

How many times did peter deny "the real Jesus" that  he followed for years?
how many of the 12 disciples came out to defend Jesus or even identify with him, when he was tried and put to death.
So my hypocritical Nigerians should shut up. They will even deny Jesus if someone brings them a better offer, that that offered by Jesus's preachers, not to talk of being at gun point.

This is an interesting topic, it is my area of interest and i have been studying alternative energy for some years now. It is a pity i do not have time on my hands at the moment to do justice to the topic, but i would make my brief contribution.

You cannot resolve your energy problem by taking the piece meal and disjointed approach we are used to in Nigeria. You have to have a plan , a short time plan, a medium time plan and a long time plan. The problem we are in this mess today is because there was no planning at all for our medium and long term energy requirements. For example if our energy demand today is put around 12,000MW, in 10 years time it would be close to 20,00 MW and in 30 years time it would be around 40,000MW.

The major problems with our energy is numerous, from legal, to technical to manpower. The listing of Energy on the federal government exclusive list is a major obstacle, you cannot generate and distribute energy without the all mighty federal government. Each region, state and local government should be allowed to generate, distribute and sell its own electricity. Each region should should determine how it wants to generate its electricity base on raw materials available to it and on meeting the federal government's environmental and other requirements.

The Niger Deltan states, singularly or collectively can decide to use its gas resources to generate electricity and sell to its neighbours, the states within the Niger River and Mambila plateau can decide to generate using hydro power, the far north can decide to look into generating electricity with solar farms, the east can decide to use coal if the can meet international environmental and safety requirements.

As for Nuclear, i do not support we go fully into Nuclear for now as do not have the manpower and management requirements to build and run it, and besides we still have cheap oil, gas and hydo power to last us for some time. But i would advocate setting up a research institute on nuclear technology for our future energy needs when oil and gas would dry out. We can build one or two small experimental plants to study and train our people nuclear energy, so we would not have to depends 100% on foreigners in the future for our nuclear energy as it is obtained in the oil and gas industry.

Ikengawo is living in Utopia, Since he has experienced western civilization, he sees everything from a very myopic perspective.

In third world countries, the government is like a God, it is omnipotent and omnipresence. They attempt to control everything. The so called private sector Ikengawo is always hammering about is a creation of the Government. You will find that the private sector did not evolve naturally is is done in the west. Most of the so called private sector are either former government officials or fronts for former of current government officials, the funds are usually stolen or diverted government money. Even a lot of the foreign companies are fronts for government officials.

This kinds of arrangement usually drive away genuine investments because the government backed "private sector" would have undue advantage and patronage by the government. This is what is happening in Nigeria, where you cannot just raise capital and decide to import sugar, cement, or flour. A free market system is supposed to be free entry and free exit. Imagine a private individual threatened the government that it would cripple the cement industry if the government should free up the cement market to everybody and the government backed down.

In Nigeria government officials (current and former) constitute a very potent force called - The Private Sector and they are either above the law, or make law that is skewed to their advantage.

You can not have a private sector driven free market economy, except you have genuine democracy and private control of resources.

agitator:
you people that are so versed in the american system, do you know that oil exploration is in the hands of private individuals? that if you acquire a piece of land any mineral found belongs to you, the owner? and you pay taxes to the Counties, which in turn pays to the States and States pay to the Federal Government. The Rockefellers started out by buying up lands and prospecting on those lands whereas in nigeria you need a license which is not easy to get as the lands are sold in blocks. remember your land can be sold of to any oil company without your consent. so when making your comparisons include this in the equation. "There is no law like land use decree there."

I tire o my brother, these people are so blinded by the American system they only recently acquired, that they cannot see the contradictions within the Nigerian system. I have pointed in out again and again but they choose to be blind to the facts.

You cannot have the wealth of the nations controlled 100% by the government and ask private individuals to build services and infrastructure. The so called leasing of oil blocks to individuals is only a tool government use to settle and bribe important members of the elite. The government can as well allocate the oil blocks directly to the foreign firms that will exploit the field without any intermediary. When the oil is sold the Federal government collects majority of the money and shares it with other tiers of government the way it deems it fit. The private people can only get some of this oil money through executing contracts (with collaboration with government officials) for the various levels of government.

Is that the way it works in their beloved America?

If the government insists that they do not want to be responsible for providing infrastructure and services, and want the private sector to be responsible, then they should allow the private sector control the wealth of the nation, and live on taxes as is done in a capitalist system.

The most annoying issue about this mythical machine that can output more energy than input (perceptual motion machine), is that no one had ever been build and demonstrated publicly. Anybody that can build such a machine would get an instant Nobel price for physics and be rated with greats like Einstein.

I have viewed so many so call demonstrations on Yutube, and i am about to die of laughter, all the systems are so basic and crude, that is unbelievable that universities with the most sophisticated equipments are unable to duplicate these wonder machines.   The contraptions wastes loads of energy from noise and frictions from crude gears just to keep it running.  The connected  batteries, which actually supplies the power would lose charge in a relatively short period of time without any load.

I doubt those contraction can run for one hour (depending on the battery bank)not to talk of one day. A more efficient system would be to connect the fuc.king batteries directly to the load. You would eliminate loss of energy from the various conversions and the noise or friction.

NSNA:
It is now obvious that most of you are only ranting that you know a little bit of science.

Many times many know laws of physics has been proven wrong

It is obvious that you never took any science subject beyond integrated science, because if you do you would have heard of the law of conservation of energy and the laws of thermodynamics.

Laws are physics have not been proven wrong, although they are not sacrosanct like biblical laws. Laws of science are always valid for the conditions and methods of observation and  collection of data.  Please tell me which laws of physics had been proven wrong for the conditions under which the law was observed?.

edoyad:
The term "fuelless" might actually have been a misnomer but it doesn't change the fact that electricity could produced from sources other than conventional fossil and renewable fuels.
Up until a few decades nobody had seen or had evidence of neutrinos but a few suspected it to exist non the less. Now dark matter in space which cannot be seen but is known to be out there is being investigated too and will be discovered eventually. All these point to the fact that there are properties out there that probably cannot be weighed or seen at the moment but could be taken advantage of. Do you know scientists have been able to power little bulbs using magnetic force by simply placing the bulb between 2 magnets ? All these combined with developments in nano technology point to greener electricity in the future. If we didn't know know about electromagnetic forces we would be saying a bulb is being powered from nothing but that would be wrong of course, which brings me back to my argument that just cos you don't know it's there doesn't mean it isn't.

I always say that half knowledge is more dangerous than no knowledge, because a person with half knowledge can mislead others.

Electricity is a result of movement of electrons, so whatever force you employ to move electron from one location to another through a conductor, electricity would be produced. Neutrinos has nothing to do with movement of electrons (electricity), also dark matter has nothing to do with electricity. Dark matter had never been observed and was only postulated to account for the huge shortfall in the mass of objects within the universe and the mass of the universe itself. So i do not know how you can connect that with producing electricity.

How do you take advantage of something that cannot be observed or weighted, how do you interact with such a particle.

Lighting a light bulb placed within two magnets is no rocket science, as long as you are able to deploy enough force to produce changing magnetic fields between the magnets, to move electrons through the wires connected to the light bulb.

Nano solar is just miniaturization of the regular solar panels using nano technology, the basic principle of science is not being broken as is the fuelless generator, which breaks all know laws of physics.

Electromagnetic forces was discovered way before any attempt to use it to invent the light bulb and not the other way round. What forces are you using to power your mythical fuelless generator.

I do not want to even bother myself with this scam, if you can actually generate 2000 watts without any external energy input, then we would have found the holy grail. Oil would become irrelevant as we would be able to drive all our machine with this free energy. Also every home would be able to generate its own electricity - free of charge.

jp philips:
It seems the journalist killed the story and the likes of beaf are having a field day.
if i should go by what up2u said then it aint really fuel less like the journalist reported cos it uses battery, lets assume the title is flawed but the concept does not elude simple physics.

except for this

i dont agree with this, the output from the coil alternator is connected to your house directly just like in Gen sets,
Since you already have a Generator alternator like u said

I don't think you need to polarize it again. i think this concept is ok because i have always know that your Gen uses petrol or Diesel just for the combustion chamber to generate heat that is then converted to mechanical motion that will simply be transmitted to the crankshaft through a piston which connects the alternator through a connecting Rod.

The big question is this;
What if this guys have found something that will turn the alternator in place of the conventional thermodynamic set up?
From what Up2 said they have come up with a DC dynamo i think it is a brilliant idea,
i will call you so u can link me up with these chaps, guess we can do business together  
guess we may be having patronage from the likes of Thomas beaf

You sound very knowledgeable in the field of science but you surprise me that you are giving this so called contraption a thought.

Since it is sacrosanct that energy cannot be created, how do you think that a system that starts with electrical energy being converted to kinetic  energy and then converted again to electrical energy would ever work? If you now use the final electrical energy to dive a load, how would you replace the lost energy back into the system? Where are you going to get the energy from?

marvix:
Quote from wirinet:

now you are throwing in a cork and bull story about a NYSC lady, who is about to undergo surgery with an instruction to the uncle not to inform her mother. So why not tell us the complete story of how the corper was able to fund her medical bills without the knowledge of her parents.


The Cock and bull story is on this link go and view it and maybe u can pick on d person who posted it here.
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-427314.0.html

at least i didnt write the story

Apologies for calling it a cork and bull story, but you must admit that you did not give me a link earlier or provide details of the story.

But having read the full story, i do not see the connection to the Yara dua's case. The ladies condition was not critical and she informed someone about the true condition of her health. She was very conscious and made the decision to protect the mother, maybe because she felt her case is not critical.
Here is what she said;

When we got to the hospital, I phoned my uncle and told him, but asked him not to allow my mother to know about it, because if she does, she would not believe that I was still alive and she might kill herself before I come back.

The operation involved removing some pellets ( a real bullet would not fall off her head just like that) from her body and i am sure no vital organ was involved. If it was other-wise, i am sure the hospital in Sokoto would not be able to handle the case.

The reason for isolating Yaradua from friends and family, including the mother, uncles, aunties, nieces, etc is not to protect them. The true state of Yaradua's health is still unknown as we have been hearing different versions from people chosen by Turai to visit him. One cousin said they spoke and he was walking, another would say they drank kunu together, a cleric would say they pray together with Yaradua sitting unaided. Another still would say he is unable to speak. The stories are as varied as stories from different episodes of super story.

My brother, a dutiful wife would be more concerned about the well being of her husband than any acquisition of power or even wealth. Most women would choose their husbands to power and wealth - try putting the question to women on this forum. If i am very sick, my wife would be so affected that she would not care about anything else, she usually sleeps in the hospital until i am discharged.

Losing power should not be the end of life for Turai, after all the Husband was about to retire before being drafted into the presidency by OBJ. If his health is in Jeopardy, the most reasonable thing to do is to take care of his health. He cannot be force to resign, as that is is personal prerogative, but if those charged with the responsibility of checks and balance on the executive are ready to do their job, they should step in decisively and normalize the polity.

up2u:
The technology was first developed by one Technocrat Resource Group. I attended their seminar early this year and I will proudly say its a SUSTAINABLE POWER GENERATION method. I have been trying to design one for myself since then but have been too busy with work and source of material difficulty. This group claimed they have been for long frustrated by government to stop it but decided to tell Nigerian so they can design for themselves and put govr to shame. This is the basis of the technology:

1. An accumulator is used as the main power source.
2. Attach a D.C Motor to the rotating end of an Alternator(can be found in our normal generators)
3. Power this motor with the Accumulator which further turns the alternator.
4. Now since the current produced from the alternator would not be polarized, one would need a diode for polarization
5. Boost with capacitor
6. Now here is the secret of its sustainability. Use a transformer to step-up the output current to say about 240V OR 260V(the physicist can do that well or any electrician around u). Use this new output as input to your accumulator.
7. Thus the accumulator is been charged at thesame time is been used.

House, this concept is mind blowing. It can work 24/7 24/7 xcept for wear and tear which would set-in because of the rotation between the alternator by the motor. But lets be real, even if it would last you for just 1year you would have saved alot of money from buying diesel or fuel.

If u feel like knowing more here is my number (EDDIE)07025895782 or 08072249270 email eddie.jerry@yahoo.com

I still have some part of the live video i made during the seminar.

But remember I paid to learn. So u MIGHT pay to learn form me. ''JUST JOKING''

What you wrote above sounds like science fiction, please can you elaborate more.

An accumulator is just  a Battery for storing electricity.

You power a D.C motor with a battery and connect it again to an alternator and now produce an alternating current from a Direct Current.

A capacitor does not boost current, it stores and stabilizes output current

A transformer does not step up current, it  transforms - meaning step up  or step down voltage, current depends on the load.

This is a poor attempt at a perpetual motion machine. You turn alternator with current from a battery though a D.C. motor and in turn attempt to charge the battery with the current generated from the alternator using a diode and a capacitor.

This is a very poor attempt, even if the system is not loaded, the loss of energy from the system would run down the battery in a very short time. Simply converting the battery D.C. to A.C. through an inverter would be a much more efficient set up, as there would be no mechanical moving parts.

marvix:
@Chiosor, sorry I don't know abt Soyinkas wife nd I'm not interested in his marital life, but all I was tryin 2 ask was does he enjoy a marital life nd does he really understand what it means 4 a man to love, cherish nd respect his wife as a politician in Nigeria and bein a muslim.

In Nigeria once a man is loyal 2 his wife pple attribute it to juju as though it is abnormal to love your wife nd listen 2 her.


@wirinet, if u are not askin every tom, manliness nd harry 2 c Yaradua den who can or shld decide who nd who can c d man. Do u think its evry time a man is sick he wants his aged mother 2 c him, did u read a thread of a lady who was shot by robbers on her way 2 NYSC camp, she specifically requested her uncle not 2 tell her mom abt d incident nd d impendin surgery. Pls give this woman Turai a break she is attendin to a sick husband these are tryin times for her nd d family can't they at least nurse their wounds in private, must Yaradua resign 4 u 2 b happy or is your success tied 2 his resignation.

You are ready to fight for Turai with everything you have got and even throw in the kitchen sink. You throw in highly unrelated and unreasonable points. First you throw in Soyinka's marriage, now you are throwing in a cork and bull story about a NYSC lady, who is about to undergo surgery with an instruction to the uncle not to inform her mother.  So why not tell us the complete story of how the corper was able to fund her medical bills without the knowledge of her parents.
What is the relationship of this story with the Yaradua episode? except you have an inside info, that Yaradua informed the wife that he does not want the mother to see him. As the mother is already aware of his sickness.

Turai does not need a break, if this was a sane country, the authorities would take more drastic measures to ascertain the true condition of a spouse who has been held incommunicado for so long. She cannot actually "attend" to her husband medically, that is left for medical practitioners to do, all any other person (including Turai) can do is to sympathize with him. And i say she is not allowing him to get the best medical attention possible. 

There you go on again spinning of the tangent, i have read this thread and i do not see where anybody talked about resignation. This thread is about allegation of spousal abuse on Turai by Prof. Wole Soyinka. It is about the refusal of Turai to put the life and well being of her husband above that of her personal interest (or the political interest of her husband  as she wants us to believe).

Ikengawo:
its the other way around. societies start with free markets and socialize as time and development passes

you must remember the starting point of society is anarchy or lawlessness, this is as free market as free market gets.
then a people organize and form a government to protect themand keep peace, but do so by giving up some of the freedom they had in the state of anarchy
then as time passes these government take on more responsibilities
in the modern era, these responsibilities now include taking care of the economy, which wasn't even considered an option prior to the GReat Depression (which was cause because the free market at the time was too free and rampant)

Nigeria is still a 'frontier market' like the US was right before the great depression. things are still being introduced to the economy and thus it needs to grow as much as possible. When the market is freer it grows more but becomes more wreckless, but when you start creating a welfare state growth slows. the more of a welfare state, the less growth.

not saying one is bad or not but look at europe today and compare it to growing economies like brazil. the growth rates aren't comparable, europe's is low to negative while braxil and even nigeria is close to double digits with china reaching double digits. as soon as these growing economies reach their full economic potential like europe has, THEN its wise to implement the welfare state because growth is no longer needed, but a country without a stron private sector in something as common as electricity should do anything to slow growth, and this includes implementing a welfare state.

Brilliant argument, i will reflect on it and comment later

marvix:
@wirinet I didn't say Soyinka must be married 2 give dat kind of coment but only asked wat kind of relationship does he hav wit his wife.
Yaradua has bin in Saudi do u think dose docs are inferior 2 docs in britain nd france I say no. The docs may have done all they cld nd given up hope but tell d wife dat prayers wld do. All these politicians nd pple complainin dat they want 2 c Yaradua have they bought d cards or flowers nd must Yaradua receive it personally are they actually goin there 2 wish him well or mock him nd compound his prob, or wat wld a visit of someone like Soyinka do, after his visit he comes out nd start usin derogatory terms to describe d illness nd even kill d hope of d wife nd family by his utterances. Pls pple don't 4get its our pple dat say dat at the burial of a man who was killed u find d pple dat killed him. Lastly I don't have anythin personal wit Turai or d Cabal but just state my view as a man who experienced somtin lik dis wen my dad was sick.

If you want to comment on Soyinka's marital problems, open a new thread and i will comment based on the merits of the argument. But if we are taking about the allegation of Turai spousal abuse, lets stick to the issues and topic raised.

The US, France and Britain has far superior medical facilities than Saudi Arabia. I cannot even say if Saudi medical facilities are better than that of South Africa or even Dubai. I have not heard of any other president or very important personality going to treat a very complicated case in Saudi. Yassar Afafat went to France for his condition, when Saudi Arabia is just a stone throw away. Boris Yelsin went to the US to treat his heart condition at the same hospital Kanu went to treat his, as the doctor there was reputed to be the best in the world. Even the crown prince of Saudi Arabia went to the US to treat his illness.

I think Turai chose Saudi Arabia, because that is the only place, where the true condition of Yaradua can be hidden.

I am not saying every tom dick and harry should go and visit Yaradua, i said close friends and family. But in a situation where even the Mother is complaining that she is not allowed to see her son, calls for questions.

Marvix, your line of reasoning is amazing, although i hate getting personal in arguments but i am certain you have a personal stake in Turai. Wole Soyinka is alleging spousal abuse on Turai and instead of you to defend against the charge, you go about attacking Soyinka's marriage. So you are saying only a married lawyer or judge can handle a case of spousal abuse if brought to a court.

I have always said, that Turai is abusing her husband. And i allege that she is doing it for personal gain. Yaradua should be in the hands of the best medical services, this planet can offer. He should be in either the US, france britain or germany in the hand of the best specialist and equipments. But No, he is wasting away in seclusion in Aso Rock, on the orders of his wife. I am not even talking about the disgrace the Nation is made to pass through, i am talking about Yaradua's personal health and well being which should be of the utmost importance.

The most pathetic thing is that, Yaradua is isolated, lonely and alone. No condolence by friends, colleagues and family. Imagine being sick an not receiving well wishes, flowers, gifts, and get well cards form friends and family. Being around loved one is part and parcel of a recovery process - ask any psychologist.

I really feel sorry for President Yaradua.

tensor777:
The free market is the best tool  for determining the allocation of resouces and not some government central planning commitee.

In essence, the well-trained,experienced and motivated financial analysts in the private sector of the electric power industry are in the best position to determine the nature, timing, and extent of any capital investment required to deliver services to their target market.

So yes the FGN should still leave any required capital investment to the private sector. Period.

You cannot talk of a completely free market economy and at the same time talk of allocation of resources. In a free market economy the wealth and resources of the state resides in private hands. The people have control of their resources. You cannot divorce private control of resources from the free market economy.

But whereby the government decides to take control of the country's resources, it should be ready to provides services and infrastructures with it, and not just sit down embezzle all the state resources, while blaming private individuals who have no resources; oh I forgot they would ask foreigners to bring in their own resources.

Furthermore true free market can only operate in true free democracy. If you mix a free market economy with quasi-democracy as we have now, what you will have is exploitation and oppression by the so called private sector in collusion with the government. That is why all the so called privatization and concessions are very controversial.

Ikengawo:
so you people want a welfare state?
im totally against the idea but this is a more legitimate debate then some of the garabage discussions i've ran into on this site.

a welfare state is not something nigeria needs right now because our capital market hasn't fully developed and our people dont pay taxes regularly, nor is there a way to track their tax records and enforce it yet.

things till need to be built before we start giving money to ppl for continuing to not do anything.

No state starts out as a free market. A free market economy evolves naturally when the conditions are right. Till today only very few countries are able to operate what can be regarded as a free market economy, and even at that they are not completely free market as the governments still exercise a lot of control on some segments of the economy and intervenes in the markets from time to time.

The reason we cannot go completely free market is because of the reason you stated, that our markets hasn't fully developed, countries that operate the free market economy had had highly developed markets for decades if not centuries.

Just look at this bad belle.

How would one get Chieftancy Titles, honourary doctorate degrees, religious titles, national titles like GCON and so on if one is not corrupt.

Abegi, make we hear word

If the wrong register is used in something as important as a governorship elect6ions, then something is very wrong with INEC's management structure. It would the height of mediocrity for one mistake by one office - junior or senior to cause such a fatal error. So it means INEC does not have various levels of cross referencing and proof reading. Anyway even if it is their most junior officer that is responsible, the bulk still still stops at Iwu's table. In Nigeria we should learn to take responsibility for our positions - Take credit when we excel and take the heat when we fail.

Iwu did not propose Electronic Register, what he proposed was electronic voting, with electronic voting machines. And people are rightfully skeptical, when voting manually is being heavily rigged, what would happen when everything is done virtually.

Even then we all registered electronically with those electronic machines that was supposed to capture our finger print and photograph, the problem was in the compilation and display of the voter's register, except you are alleging that it was Nigerians that stopped Iwu from displaying the voter's register online, since INEC is supposed to have a working website.

AjanleKoko:
Actually it is possible theoretically, to have a closed-loop recyclable energy system. I.e. you use the output of your fuel-source as feedback, to 'recycle' the stored energy back into storage.

But you have to have what is called a 'lossless' system, a 'superconductor' carrying the current back into the feedback loop. Which is only possible in a lab where you create an environment without temperature, pressure, humidity, light, etc. I doubt anybody in Abeokuta or Osogbo would have achieved that.

Or you could have a primary source of energy, like water, from which you can produce hydrogen via a closed-loop converter. The hydrogen will now be used to power a generator specially rigged up for that purpose. I have seen a few patents on that online.

I like your imagination, at least it is more lively than that of the so called scientist trying to re-invent the wheel or is it the round table.

Theoretically you can travel back in time, the problem is its practicality. There is nothing like a lossless system, it can never be achieved, energy will always be lost once the energy moves from on location to the other, and we are not even talking of using the energy yet, or else you can have a perpetual motion machine.

Producing Hydrogen from water consumes more energy than can be obtained from it. Except other methods of extracting hydrogen is found other than electrolysis. What you see online is patent (and there are thousands of unpractical ones out there) and not a working device.

I do not believe someone can exonerate Iwu for our electoral misfortunes.  It is live an Architect blaming the workmen for the collapse of a house he designed and supervised.

So who is to blame for the non display of Voter's register in order to correct mistakes. Iwu kept on lying that he had complied with the Law by displaying the voter's register when all he did way to organize a stage managed show for the camera. meanwhile majority of voter's could not check their names. This made it possible for mike tyson and Fela to vote in the elections. Anambra elections was a very good example of Iwu electoral skills, where over 80% of registered voter's were excluded.

Who was to blame for the non serialization of ballot papers used for the presidential elections, who approved the design and award of contract for the ballot papers?

Who supervised the Ekiti debacle, when we are told that Madam (can't remember her name now) was still part of the INEC family after being declared wanted by the police and meeting with Iwu.

Who gave himself pass mark after the 2007 "non elections" only for the courts to find many of the elections flawed. Some of the elections of 2007 are still being nullified 3 years after.

The list goes on and on, but the bottom line is Iwu is very incompetent and must not be allowed to organized any more elections in Nigeria.

So jokers here are praising Iwu for declaring that elections should be declared at the polling units, In the 2007, elections a lot of elections were declared at the polling stations, the problems is the announcement of results from either the state INEC secretariat or Abuja, where they write a different result. And the laws state that one a result is declared  by the REC, only the courts can reverse the results, which can take up to three years.