Donian007: You are so IGNORANT, I have posted and cleared this issue of deploying to Mali previously even proving that Nigeria has better assets for logistics than SA and @Andrewza didn't object. But did you know that France secretly sponsored Chad into Mali because of the great experience and strenght she(Chad) has in desert warfare? Chad's involvement is most propelled and sponsored by France.
i never disagreed, SAAF knows it needs to upgrade there strate lift so does nigeria though.
Augustine Again: nigeria currently has MI-35 hind and is a better battle tested world approved gunship than south african Rooivalk.
nigeria currently has Roland and TYype 90 air defences and will shoot down south africa's tiny force of only 6 t0 8 Gripen jets.
nigeria currently has 2 modern guided missile stealth warships with anti-submarine capabilities, not waiting to buy, but already bought and almost finished at shipyard to arrive next year, clear world news well published. 2 more to make 4, are paid for and your country's defenceweb south africa posted the news.
in a coastal area navy combat nigeria has 40 stealth fast attack vessels already in service today, but south africa has zero.
every country has its time of major weapons purchase, south africa had cheetah jets before Gripen, right ? yes.
poor spy and recce is a major weakpoint of south african miliatry, it means they never see beyond their immediate area, that is why Seleka rebels was face to face with south african army before your soldiers knew it ! south african military is NOT better than nigerian military in any way. each acquired weapons that it needs based on the type of threat they face. period.
how is the hind better remember there are people in SA who have flown both aircraft.
You failed to achieve that goal and sa has way more than 8 gripens.
Their ability are not known all we know is that they are OPVs
Augustine Again: you lie big time, nigerian ATR-42 Surveyor is a NATO standard EW aircraft, and never compare southa african 1950 generation Dakota aircraft too old that one crashed recently. go tell tales of F00LISH Dakota vs ATR-42 comparison to a 3 years old kid, not me.
since when is it now a EW aircraft it is a MPA.
And NATO means what nigeria does not have access to any of the high end NATO electronics not to mention NATO standard is for uniformity not quality
Henry120: Egypt receives 1.3 billion dollars, yearly in american military aid, and not 5 billion dollars, you are touting.
@Andrew, I hope you've seen the photos @fynline posted?
not all of it is money actually most of it according to the american brokered israel egypt peace deal is not money. case in point America gave them a bunch of tanks m1 tanks for free this year. it all adds up.
Augustine Again: you just got me banned again trying to answer your ignorant question about HEAT artillery shells, i posted a long data base file from my private e-library on all types of explosives for artillery and nairaland administrator banned me for posting information about bomb making and high explosives ! your fault.
i have to be careful answering some unnecessary questions you ask instead of you to do your own research you will be asking me to post and re-post what i posted before or what you can google yourself and spend your own time to find.
a few things i will answer before you get me banned again.
now because i reminded you that you are 5,000km away from home base and that you originally came with 76mm guns, you cancel the idea of changing ships guns to 155mm. continue to change goal post in one single football game
i wont listen to your story about 40km-50km ships away from nigerian coast. you think i am a F00L ? south african navy did not stay back 50km when you simulated originally, now because nigerian palmaria artillery range is 40km max you change and remove goal poast again after i gave you information
its too late man, too late, in real war soldiers dont do resurrection back to life after their ship is sunk to sea bottom and get a second chance to form a new combat strategy.
i sank aall south african navy warships with artillery first time they entered nigerian territorial waters with their overconfidence, i used a surprise method of counter attack
game over. you already R.I.P.
no matter what new missile south africa buys, nigeria is defending at home on land and has 100 times more capacity to throw missiles at south africas only 4 warships already 5,000km away from cape town and with no single satellite, even @msauza the chief liar among you south africans has not dared to challenge me when i said it to him this morning that south africa has no satellite, i mean no satellite.
stop wasting my precious time on that issue and fact, i am not a F00L.
new nigerian stealth warships are 4, two china, two india. your south african defenceweb website published both news. google it.
nigeria dont need to buy rocket assisted rounds, we build a rocket that has range 120km and launched a spy hardware into space this year, so what is an extra 10km range rocket to be looked for all over the world ? nothing hard. arms trade logs do not record unguided rockets sales, no record counted nigerian MLRS ammo. you dont have access to inspect nigerian armoury.
china, i never said china will intervene, i just showed you the FOOLISHNESS of your naval blockade that keeps running your ships away from nigerian artillery into international waters, there is wisdom in war if you dont know, ask saddam of iraq, do war, but dont turn other countries economy upside down.
22km is nigerian territory, if you play games of blockade 40km away you will stop commercial trade shipping routes crossing from europe/america along west africa to central africa and from asia along central africa to west africa.
your military rank is below a sergeant and you will never understang that aspect of war. you only think at tactical level, you never think of strategic level. that is a F00LISH war to fight war and get into big trouble not planned for.
i dont wat to waste my time on this naval blockade again, i have said enough, let the other people judge us.
meanwhile, tell the bat bling south african military to go get satellite and stop fighting war like a roadside begger with no eyes.
how is it my fault, i know there are no indirect HEAT rounds seems you do not.
i never said we would change i said we could change there is a difference you know.
i siad they would stay out of coastal waters and your palmarer at best could reach 30km and probably only 24km.
Maybe he has no need to since i have already posted the proof that SA does have satellites
you happy to posted links from there so you may do it your self for all of us to see.
show proof of all of that, what 120km range rocket no but only a few countries use high tech arty rounds and even less make them.
china selling you long range anti ship missiles during a sa blockade is them intervening
nope we can track the ships and figure out their course and insure they don't move towards nigeria.
agaugust:you said before that you were gone from this thread, but you are back now, sure you could not find any such brain stimulating forum in the whole of south africa, then you returned back to 'lagos' like @msauza
i personally posted a lot on this thread for Egypt, Algeria, Ethoipia. Their military weblinks, list of weapons, war history, photos, videos, etc. other people also posted.
when i posted Egypt vs South Africa main weapons beside each other, the south african guys here ran for cover. when i did same for Ethiopia, the south africans said the issue is between them and nigeria, that is to say, the lizard in pretoria vs the crocodile in abuja.
you asked for it, you get it. simple. now go to sleep you white racist, south africa has no single satellite to use for war today, nigeria has 3 plus several nigerian army built hi-tech space based military spy balloons.
south african military is fighting war as blind as a bat !
in a number of areas egypt is a lot better but they do get 5 billion dollars worth of military aid from the USA. Nonetheless they are no threat since they need to worry about israel
what does ethyipa or algeria have on us that is of concern
agaugust: France has its military permanently in most of its west african ex-colonies, the french maintain permanent bases there, but nigeria does not build military base inside francophone countries. Chad has logistic capability 100 times smaller than nigeria. Mali wanted french speaking brothers, the Mali government earlier warned nigerian army that they are not welcome in Mali and will be treated as an invading force.
Nigeria did not do F00LISHLY like south africa to enter CAR nation when all the people have not agreed to let you come in. that is why south africa was disgraced out of CAR, they came in neatly organized, they went out scattered by seleka.
Yet a lot of the massive numbers of the french forces came from france or across the country.
There was a agreement for nigeria to enter malil months before france went in to save the day with chad and then it took a few more months to deploy, over all it shows you have no ability to act fast when need be.
CAR failed because SA a force that was never meant to fight the rebels was forced to do so after the local and regional forces ran away without even put up a token resistance. Nonetheless we proved we could deploy fast if need be when the following week we had deployed a infantry battalion and air support ready to move on to CAR if the go ahead was given. Nigeria would still have been back home if they had tried a similar feat
agaugust: none of them is built for air to air combat because helicopters cannot stand against jet fighter interceptors. Mi-35 Hind carries S-24 and i you cannot say it wont carry SRAAM.
that so called Augusta 109 Helicopter 'production line' in south afroica is actually an ordinary assembly line, or did south africa build the engine and its components, and fabricate the parts from scratch ? stop stealing other nations products and their glory. Ford and BMW are not south african products and so Augusta Helicopter is Italian.
Yet no one has ever thought to mount AAM on a mi24 even though other helicopters have received them. not to mention the s24 is a land attack rocket nothing close to a AAM.
The A109 has a few problems mostly they received a number of upgrades to try and fix them. Nonetheless i prefer the EC645 nonetheless the A109 has done it,s job and is in constant use.
agaugust: ...and that makes it as capable as nigerian air force ATR-42 Surveyor ? you drink too much
And did i say it was better, it does not have has good radar but there is a purpose built EW dakota(i think it was 2 or 3 i forgot but any of them could get the upgrade) that nigeria has nothing comparable
agaugust: T-craft is a south african navy boat, i will not post its details for you, do it yourself or forget it. thats why i said it is a F00LISH question you asked me.
i wont repeat my self again, nigerian satellite has real time information equipment go page 336 on top, i posted it there with eblink source of its full technical details and capabilities. people have told me not to answer you on this poit again because it is another F00LISH question you asked me.
nigerian navy on the coastland has 15 radar stations spread around from lagos to calabar, new and modern built by israelis and americans. the radars are more than enough to see all south african warships in real time and report their positions GPS coordiantes to nigerian army artillery command and control every minute of 24 hours a day without any stress at all.
south africa is the one that is blind as a bat with no satellite to watch nigeria.
Global Security website reported nigerian Archer artillery guns, and wikipedia too reported it. if those two sources are not enough for you, then go and continue your day dreams in simons town sea side drinking more beer to erase your fear of nigerian artillery.
i never said nigeria fires GPS guided shells, i said south african ships GPS is known and artillery shells will spread all over the area like a carpet bombing, that is the traditional role of artillery and it has not changed since world war II or gulf war in iraq, and so the south african navy ships will be sunk to sea bottom, you hear me ?
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you the one that claimed the T-craft is made from a certain material. I want that source. I know every detail of the T-craft since i work on one. Yet you want to tell me what it is made from. I want that source if you can not popst it , that means you lied.
You don't seem to know what i mean by real time, nowhere does it show how it will be able to take a photo and get that position of the ship to the guns in real time. You have not shown how either you mini satellite or radar posts will be able to achieve this, i know they can not but nonetheless i want you to understand what i mean by real time.
Those are not legit sources or even well informed, nor is there any proof of them in country not even beagel agrees with you.
no but you said they could fire at 50km, that is reached using only by firing high end rounds such has a GPS rounds.
@Andrewza normal fonts @Agaugust bold black or red fonts
The change could be done in simmons town or durban. And the point is that the valour was built to take the reciol of the 155mm round. Never known the G6 to have problems with recoil.
[b]how many times will you change the goal post in this football game ?
when you made simulation of south african naval blockade of nigerian waters your warships sailed to nigeria with 76mm gun to fight NNS THUNDER and NNS ARADU. i surprised you by nigeria counter attack with 105mm and 155mm artillery guns, so now your navy ships want to sail back to south africa and change their guns to 155mm, do you forget that you are already 5,000km away from home base ?
you want to go and do that big logistics operation back in south africa 5,000km away, yet you said nigeria cannot move around its own 500 artillery guns towed with ordinary trucks/trailers on home soil ? is it only south africa that God allows to do logistics for war ?
you say its not certain nigerian artillery are all functioning, what makes it certain that all south african warships and submarines are working too ? artillery guns need very little maintenance, warships and submarines need regular and heavy maintenance, south africa will have 100 times more logistics and maintenance problems than nigeria, go see your Gripen jets in cold room freezer long term storage.[/b]
Point out all ready that we don't ever have to come in range of your guns. Ever we can stay 100 km away and still blokade your ports. Some thing you keep on failing to address is why the valour would close in on to the battriess. We could stay 50km out of the ports and laugh at you. Even in my first war game I menstioned the valour would not come in close.
[b]
in real war soldiers dont have a second chance to live again, nigerian army already sank all the south african navy warships to see bottom in the first surprise artillery counter attack when the ships were over-confident and entered nigerian territorial waters feeling superior to NNS THUNDER and NNS ARADU.
you keep changing the goal post, now you want to anchor your warships 50km away, when you posted comments few days ago about using 4 Rooivalk helicopters flying 10km away from coast to attack nigerian artillery, then 12 nigerian air force F-7 jet interceptor aircrafts showed up and you ran back again.
if you stay 50km away from nigerian coast you just carelessly created a big 50,000 sq km safe corridor for coastal oil barges to ship crude oil freely, and the baseline/shoreline is too shallow for any submarine threat. you defeated yourself.
you also dont know that nigeria can ignore oil shipping and simply extend its massive NNPC crude oil nationwide pipeline network from chevron's new oil rig base in lagos lagoon to along and beside the existing west african gas pipeline to cotonou, and in a few weeks 80% of nigerian oil and gas export flows easily to world market.
sorry you dont know how nigerian oil and gas industry works
i told you that nigeria has more than enough firepower to protect its 22km territorial waters, about 1,000 artillery weapons have range to cover nigerian waters from baseline coast to 40km and that is almost double of our territorial waters. south african navy running away from nigerian army long range artillery at 50km to 100km away from nigerian coast, weakens your patrol of the waters because you now have bigger sea of about 50,000 sq km to 100,000 sq km to blockade with only 4 warships ? are the south african navy warships become flying spirits that move in the air ?
south african navy is blind as a bat without any satellite to spy and monitor a massive nigerian ocean EEZ and yet your ships keep running back more and more distant into the ocean because of fear of nigerian artillery, with this tactical difficulty, the south african navy is already defeating itself by itself !
south african navy will end up sitting down useless in international waters 5,000km away from home and wasting the money that your government does not wish to throw away and achieve nothing.
south african navy 50km to 100km away from nigerian coast will give it a big problem, too deep in international waters and breaking international shipping laws by harassing american, european, chinese, and russian warships by challenging their free trade movements to indirectly blockade their own economy too, then those super powers will teach south africa the same lesson they taught iraq that entered kuwait where other countries have right to do business, and ask somalia pirates the lessons they learn from the super powers' navy warships enforcing free trade and safe shipping in international waters.
nigeria does not need to have artillery cover more than its 22km territory or say double it to 44km....anything outside that becomes an international issue because nigeria itself has no legal right to harass any ship outside its territorial waters by international law....
Since when did 2 opvs become 4 warships? And again talking about things you do not have. SA has more money to spend so if you want I can all so start at that game of your. [b] nigerian navy's 2 new Type 056 stealth guided misslile warships will arrive next year 2014, then we can all review their missiles, guns, ECM and ASW. too early to judge, but available information from china says : The Type 056 is the first Chinese warship with module design, which makes it cover the roles from OPV to multi-role frigate. weblink http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_056_corvette
you can choose not to believe it, that is your personal day dream and i dont care. nigerian naval chief never called them OPV, he said they are ships, i dont know when you a south african became nigerian navy chief. http://www.punchng.com/news/nigerias-survival-depends-on-sea-navy-chief/
in case you dont know, ignorant jounalists call ships by any name that comes to their head and manipulate is anyhow....south african source here says your valour class warship is a small frigate, who gave him that misleading language ?
Since when is it mighty. I mean what makes it so mighty. And it is 49 not 50.
[b]49 to 50 units of Palmaria is almost the same number.
if nigerian Palmaria 40km range 155mm artillery is not might as you say, why did you run away from nigerian coast and put your ships at 50km distance away from nigerian coast ?
and why did you change your mind and cancel the F00LISH naval blockade to sail back home 5,000km away and change the guns on south african valour warships from 76mm to 155mm ?
you just proved how mighty nigerian palmaria artillery is because your south african navy ran away to change guns at home and sit away in a long distance deep ocean.
also know that every nation reacts to new threats, if south africa navy sits 100km away from nigerian coast and makes a threat, nigeria will quickly spend peanut $100m to buy so many chinese land based guided anti-ship missiles with longer range 500km and sink all south african navy warships to sea bottom, or if you are the one in nigeria's position you will not quickly buy a new weapon to defeat a new threat ? you need to think like an adult.
you see how F00LISH your naval blockade is ? i keep your navy uniform hanging on top of my mango tree until you learn real war.
[/b]
No i would not bother to change the guns out of the vallour, the frigates would not ever go more than 50 to 40 km from your coast, i was just pointing out that if nigeria wants to to buy and add new things on a whim because it suits them SA can do the same thing.
supporting 3 ships is a lot easier than all your guns and support they will need. By their nature ships are able to operate with little support
While yes they would run back some time a tactical withdrawal is a good idea, you may follow them if you wish.
how did you get to 50,000sq km you only have a few ports we need to watch. And large ships can only travel along certain channels in coastal areas.
Those pipes have a set max capacity, so show where you get 80%, not to mention oil and gas is not the only thing that your ports are used for, most of the world trade is done by sea.
you have about 500 max 600(590 according beagel) Arty guns excluding mortas where do you get 1000 guns?
And i have shown that SA does have a satellite but there use is not all seeing as you think.
You do know that a EEZ and continental shelf claims go beyond 22km not to mention the entire west african region is seen has your sphere by your 2001 defense policy
Sinc when did 2 become 4 and they OPVs that what the order is for.
very max range it can get is only 30km and that is using rocket asset rounds you have not shown to have any of these rounds so the best you can hope for is 24km.
i never said we would, i said we could.
Why would china choose Nigeria over SA show me why they would give a hoot about nigeria.
agaugust: so what ? there is a lot of funny ideas people have about HEAT warhead, but most are just imaginations not reality. i know the reality of war and you know the fiction.
i said HEAT rounds high explosive anti-armour/tank shells, i have two different things there, read my post again, HEAT shell is there and i called it anti-tank, to be mixed with regular ARMOUR-PIERCING shells and i called that anti-armour....i wrote both types so dont try to lecture me about types of shells.
artillery dont need to fire HEAT directly on armour to penetrate a warship, artillery shells land directly from above and not a slope that bounces off when land based tanks fire on tanks with different levels of turret depression/elevation which requires laser guide.
HEAT will explode without hot temparature, its the reality, any other belief is imagination by people who get confused by the name HEAT. google is your friend.
it was smart enough to mix both anti-tank and anti-armour shells together and fire both on the warships. valour warship is welded steel built to take shell hits in gunfire, artillery HEAT shells have double penetration power will pierce through its steel and bore hole into the ship, even down to its ammunition and missile storage bay which is usually below the deck but now penetrated and then one explosion in the south african ships ammo storage will trigger massive chain of explosions and the ship will sink very very much faster than normal.
my reason for firing artillery shells both HEAT and ANTI-ARMOUR types : valour ship has Welded GL-D36 Steel hull subdivided into more than 10 watertight compartments, as well as double bulkheads and box girders running lengthwise – proven to prevent hull break-up. i will use double penetration shells and increase chance to dig hole into its ammunition bay/storage down below the surface deck plus risk of its fuel tanks and cause huge explosion or huge fire. the ship will go to sea bottom faster than normal.
if artillery shell hits the missile cells the ship will have huge explosion of multiple ammunition and the deck will break up, no navy admiral will sail his warship in an artillery bombardment zone unless he and his crew have no wife and children waiting at back home.
What i mean is show me a arty HEAT round, i know of no HEAT round built to be used in any direct role or of any 155mm nato heat rounds.
patriot4: I think you misunderstand me completely. I do not know what you are arguing about. I am only showing you that there are more difficult insurgencies than that those two ones you keep bragging about. I gave you an example of an insurgency you lost. The ANC, did target white civilians, raped and killed them. That is terrorism. And your armed forces gave the fight up, and now they are ruling you. The type of terrorism you faced is much less than that Nigeria is facing right now. So please try to be balanced. By the way, I want to clarify that apartheid was wrong, but the methods used by some ANC people was just as wrong.
SADF never gave up the fighting. There was a natsional poll where goverment asked the people if they wanted to end aparthied. I don't think many people know about that.
agaugust: Post source to prove your claim that Nigerian ocean has more piracy than Somalia with statistics.
The web link in your post mentioned only one single piracy incident in Nigerian waters, but Somalia waters piracy happens many times more than Nigeria.
I thought you claim South African Police was good, why do you still have the highest Murder rate in Africa and the highest R.ape rates in the world ?
If you live in a glass house, don't throw stones .
patriot4: The militants/terrorists did strike in SA right ?
Sawpo launched a few raides in to south west africa(now nambia) non ever achied any form of victory.
In SA ANC,PAC and others had a few bombings. Non ever threanted the goverment. Then there where periods of internal township uprising but thos where mostly a poliece matter. The SADF only provinding support.
Township uprising still occure today. And they have never had enough power to over throw the goverment.
patriot4: The militants/terrorists did strike in SA right ?
Sawpo launched a few raides in to south west africa(now nambia) non ever achied any form of victory.
In SA ANC,PAC and others had a few bombings. Non ever threanted the goverment. Then there where periods of internal township uprising but thos where mostly a poliece matter. The SADF only provinding support.
Township uprising still occure today. And they have never had enough power to over throw the goverment.
Also, you still had best weapon from France the Mirage F1 Jet Fighter-Bombers
Cuba that you fought has no combat experience or any war in their history. Most of the Cuban army that fought south African army were young boys conscripts of communism pushed to war without much training and zero experience. South African military had been fighting war since 1930 and had military forces built up by Europeans for over 100 years.
Yet you did NOT win the war. We have posted on that bush war on earlier pages and I don't want to waste my time on it again.
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You sure you in the defense industry.
Look at when SA got hit with sacstions.
The mirrage was outdated by the 1980s. Hence the cheeta upgrade.
Cuba had fought a revoulnarry war, and held off a US backed bay of pigs. Show a source for your clam of cuba only sending conscripts.
Nor did we loose. The bush war ended with both cuba and SA leaveing angola and angola and swapo cancelling support for the ANC.
patriot4: You must be kidding yourself, the black South africans were schielding ANC militants and also helping them hide their weapons in South african soil. And yes of course ANC had bases outside South africa, so does boko haram. boko haram is hidden and shielded by the northern muslims (a big chunk of them =70 million peaople) and they have big bases outside Nigeria, places like Niger, Chad and Mali. The difference is that Nigerian army will never give up the fight, and that it will be won.
Name one major battel in side SA between SA goverment forces and any of the liberstion movements.
patriot4: It is not about the security forces, it is about the menthality of the civilians. This is the reason why israel got rid of the palestinians who were a large population in Israel. The palestinians had the menthality of schielding terrorists. So you see even the israeli security aparatus couldn't deal with them, so it had to frustrate their living Hood and send them out of israel. Your own army couldn't deal with ANC militantism, they gave up and now you have ANC ruling you.
Non of the former liberstion movemebts where ever a internal threat. They operated from external bases and luanched raides in to SA.
The mass break downs of law and order where never ANC or PAC operstions. Though both supported them and provocted actsion. Most acctual ANC,PACextra(excluding swapo) in SA held lands where small and of no threat.
agaugust: South African had support from America, France Britain and Israel against Angola,Cuba USSR. It was a balanced war. South Africa could not have survived Russian weapons alone without European help. South Africa had French Mirage F1 modern jet fighters the very best from France
all forghin support bar some corvert and intel sharing was stoped in the late 1970s or when the war became really tough.
Henry120: Agaugust, thank you for mentioning IRA. The britis government fought them for 27years with no success. Insurgency, especially islmic insurgency/ fanaticism is no easy task battling.
Russia Turkey India Indonesia Pakistan Philippines
All of them battling islamic insurgency for more than 10 years now. With the top five with far better militaries than nigeria.
Eze Promoe: [color=crimson]Yea, you may see it as such because Nigeria is poor in record-keeping, you can never tell what Nigeria has except in the battle field. Remember during the civil war, that weapons were built and made by Biafrans. Boko Haram makes their bomb themselves, they have a number of bomb factory in Northern Nigeria. South Africa would have being in the dust if it has experienced what Nigeria has experienced. That's how you get to know who are the real GIANTS [/color]
Wow you are really ignorant. We fought a sviet backed Cuba in Angola. The USSR used the angolan war has a testing ground for all there high tech wepaons. Yet you think your bifar, mend and BH where better.
I can make bomb I know people who could make bombs that would put any thing BH has to shame.
You act like BH's IEDs are that big of a deal. Even the airforce of bifar was a joke compaird to the angolan air force(never mind cuba) during our war there.
zetdee: hahaha, @Andrewza have you ever been to the town of Bellville, 15 years ago it was a beautiful thriving coloured/Christian/afrikaans town, today it's the most rundown, filthiest and backward town in the whole Western Cape thanks to the huge influx of starving backward Somalians, the clinics are also full of ugly Somalian freaks ( due to inbreeding a somalian/Muslim thing). Somalians are the 1 nationals i would favour deporting. You are right my friend apartheid did end too soon, as the old government would have never allowed these starving backward sand niggers into our beautiful country.
Foreign Affairs › Re: Who Has The Strongest Military In Africa? by zaandrew: 12:08pm On Jun 15, 2013
