₦airaland Forum

Image123: i said MOST, not ALL. i know what i am saying. i know kunle, zikky, gosh nd co's views and drive. i've read them talk tithe for years.

Mark Miwerds: Pastors who teach a monetary tithe teach for doctrine the commandments of man. Jesus said because of that, their worship is vain.

Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

debosky: This is what God said in Leviticus 27:30 "'A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the LORD; it is holy to the LORD.

It belongs to me - not you should give it to me if you like since it's not compulsory.

Mark Miwerds: AlwaysTrue,

You say the tithe has not been abolished.

I believe it has been abolished. But if it has not, it still has nothing whatsoever to do with one's own money.

debosky: This division you make which alludes that only those ordinances in Exodus as being abolished is an interesting but ultimately baseless one which cannot be supported in scripture, or in English language for that matter.

debosky: People should stop using the word ‘compulsory’ without understanding what it means To be compulsory means to be required by law or rule. For something to be a law, it must be regarded as having binding force - it is compulsory!

So if tithe is given as a law/rule, it is compulsory for those that law applies to. If you say that because it was commended by Jesus (under the law) then it continues to apply, then you are saying that the law applies. That means you are saying tithing is compulsory (a law) for Christians. You cannot use this ‘nothing is compulsory’ as a get out clause - if it is a law, it IS compulsory.

Joagbaje: It's you guys who try to label me property preacher. Because I give you holyghost bashing on any thread that projects. Sufferings and poverty for Christians .

Joagbaje: And I have not changed at all its the poverty preachers that stopped .

Image123: DEBOOOOOOOO, hope you can read the first line? This is the view of most antitithers here BTW, not the lip service they were paying in Ola's thread.

idnoble135: OP permit me to state my thought in brief. It is not offtopic but slightly off topic, lol, depending on how anyone reading this. I hope the'big names' on the religion section gets to read this. Thanks
!I'm just alarmed at the proliferation of threads in the religion section, bringing up the same topics, and the same arguments, over and over again. And soon, it might dawn that we might have been moving in a circle all along.
This is another thread on tithing, coming on the heels of tens(if not hundreds) of thread on a similar subject. The question is, is this necessary again? Kindly hear me out to the end.
We are here, arguing over what we've been arguing on for maybe a month? A year? God knows how long.
My thought is if anyone needed help on this topics, one can simply search for it using the key word. Now we all know that when a thread is open, suggestions on similar threads also come up. And this leaves the reader to keep reading and reading till he/she gets tired. I am even typing this from experience. I have tens of saved pages that i am yet to read on diverse topics. I have read and read before and i'm even tired of reading.
My concern here is, are we not focusing on the minors? Repeating the same doctrinal issues again and again that no one even gets to change his mind at the end. Is this what it means to teach? This section has taught me the difference between a theologian and a teacher. And just my thought, i think we have lots of theologians here and few teachers. That aside.
Let me share my major concerns. We are christians. We are to minister to the Lord, to ourselves, and to the world. Are we really ministering to believers here? Are we giving exhorting words? Can a believer say, thank God for the religion section, just when i needed help, i found a thread that helped me. I mean can a believer testify that anyone here has improved their practical personal life in Christ and not just doctrinal issues?
Can we hear a someone say i use to be a sinner, but a visit to the religion section changed my life and i encountered Christ on a thread on the religion section?
I fear the words of Leonard Ravenhill plays out here, who said, "those of us in the 'deeper life' are busy hunting mice while lions devour the land".
I did not say all this topics, are not crucial, but they lose importance when compared with some topics that are more important than it.
And though i cannot point out monikers, but i have read comments on NL that suggest that the faith of some have been wrecked. And while, there abound glorious opportunities to take advantage of for the benefit of the Kingdom, we sit in one corner of the thread, arguing while alot of decay goes on. God bless the believers that have taken it upon themselves to post evangelistic and (practical) exhorting/edifying threads.
I hope my post is seen as a sincere concern expressed freely here.
I hope this gets to someone, even though one, then this is worthwhile.
I hope this post will not be hidden, it bears my thought also as relating to the topic.
Shalom!

christemmbassey: thank u bro, ur points are valid and noted. If i may ask sir, how many pastors/churches preach Christ, salvation, love, n other true christian values, when u put nn ur tv and a pastor is preaching, b honest, what do u hear? Is it nt money, money and money? Do u realise d havoc tithe fraud has wreck on lives? Do u realize how many that have lost their faith bc of tithe n d failure of Malachi 3:10? Do u know dat ppl commit crime n use tithe to cleanse their conscience? (afterall i've given God his share) do think few hundreds of tithe threads are enough to undo centuries of this fraud? No bro, we need more. God bless

debosky: ^^ Nah, nah, nah, in this new dispensation sin offering = Lexus i250 - 2013 model with 17" alloys. I will accept cash if your substitute is unclean.

debosky: Don't think I've forgotten oh - you still owe me two sin offerings for copying my posts.

Enigma: And for the umpteenth time, the argument is never that people are not free to choose to tithe; people are free to tithe into 'church' if that is their wish. However, as Christians too we have a say in what people are claiming to be Christian doctrine or teaching.

The challenge has always been about the teaching and NOT about individual choice.

Enigma: For me the principles are simple.

1. If a person says s/he has decided and chosen to tithe ----- I cannot argue with them, let alone to "insult" them.
2. If a person says others are "stealing" by eating "God's tithe" ---- I think it is reasonable to call the person too a "stealer" or a thief or at least a Bible-twister.
3. If a person says "tithes should not be given to the poor" ---- ok we might refrain from calling the person a "stealer" or thief but the view point should be challenged vigorously.

Image123: Some have explained that their finances improved after they stopped tithing, it goes both ways in that case. But should our yardstick of godliness be gain?
1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

Most antitithers here judge one by whether he is gaining financially or not. Is that the standard? That a pastor or christian is rich or poor, is that the standard or major yardstick for whether he is godly?

Image123: You should have noticed on this forum that i keep trying to avoid tithe talk,

Image123: You should have noticed on this forum that i keep trying to avoid tithe talk, but they keep asking questions on tithe and making unreal claims,

Image123: This they do to deceive new readers and lazy fellows. Tell the antitithers to extend this courtesy, can you?

Image123: When are you going to tell the antitithers to extend this courtesy, can you?

Candour: 2. Pay tithe as eternal principle to prove Abraham is your father according to Gen 14 and Heb 7(I keep wondering how this particular reference could be support for tithe)

Alwaystrue: @Enigma,
Do not be bothered therefore by what we have chosen to follow, thanks.

debosky: No there is no Pharisee around me - Pharisees are Jewish teachers under the Law. I also return the question - is there a Jewish temple around you where you tithe according to the law Jesus referred to in Matthew 23:23?



Yes, Jesus commended tithing, AND commended obeying all the Pharisees teaching - both are applicable to those under the law, not Christians. If you are not practising pick-and-chooseism, you should do both things not pick tithes alone from that passage.

Bidam: You still reading letters. is there a pharisee around you who teach and you are to observe and obey his teachings?

Bidam: Jesus was actually exposing the hypocrisy of the pharisees, that is the meat of the gist .

Bidam: Does this scriptures nullify the malachi scripture i quoted?

Bidam: What do you understand by bring all the tithes into the store house?

Alwaystrue:
You said people can tithe but they should not link it to scripture. How does that bother you if you are not bothered? If you decide something does not have any scriptural principle to you let others who know this principle use it in peace and I am talking of both tithes and 'freewill offerings'.

Enigma: Yes, why not? Harvest season is around the corner for traditional churches: someone brings an offering of a ram; another brings an offering of a bag of rice; I bring an offering of two bottles of oil though a more generous soul brings a gallon of oil and also peppers and salt. We pray over them during the service and after the service we cook and eat the lot for jollification.

Enigma: 4. Are you suggesting or teaching tithing on the basis of Abram or of the Law or of a composite of Abram and the Law?]

debosky: I thought tithes were all the same? I am learning by the day. So now some tithes are God's tithes - whose tithes are the others? I hope those saying it applies today maintain the division between God's tithes and other entities' tithes.

Alwaystrue: Hello @Enigma,
Kindly view the scripture below and do answer if this is the same as God's tithes that Jo was speaking about that the Lord commanded:

Alwaystrue: My questions:
1. Is this the same tithe as the one ordained in Numbers which Paul bore witness off?
2. In that command by Moses, even tithes, vows and others were eaten. Do you eat your offerings as well with other people? If you do is it in the place that was commanded?
3. Did you notice that Moses gave this command especially telling the Israelites that this tithe should not just be eaten anywhere but in the place the Lord choses to cause his name to dwell so much so that Moses said if the place is far for them they will need to convert it to money? Meaning it could not have been the tabernacle? Infact the place to be chosen in one of the tribes and this is where this should be carried out?

Bidam: Then what is the definition of God's tithe?

Bidam: God's tithe is never error,God is perfect and He never makes mistake,There is always a reason for everything God gives man.

OLAADEGBU: What do you understand by the following passages? Psalms 110:4; Hebrews 6:20; 7:11,21.

BERNIMOORE: THE PARTICULAR  ORIGINAL  OATH REFFERED TO IN THE BOOK OF PSALM 110:4 from Hebrew 7,‘DID NOT’ TREAT    ‘‘AFTER’’ SEPARATELY, AND  ‘‘ORDER’’  SEPARATELY, .............

BUT RATHER, THE TRANSLATION   ‘ACTUALLY JOINED’   ‘’AFTER THE ORDER’’  TOGETHER AND NOT SEPARATELY LIKE YOURS,THAT IS; (‘after’=(a meaning) and ‘order’=(another meaning)  BUT   ‘’AFTER THE ORDER’’ TRANSLATED ALTOGETHER WAS ACTUALLY RENDERED  USING (H1700),   SEE THE DIFFERENT MEANING DIFFERENT FROM THE ONE ABOVE THAT IT USES;(in the same strong Hebrew dictionary you used);

Psa 110:4

The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order (H1700) of Melchizedek.

H1700
דּברה
dibrâh
dib-raw'
Feminine of H1697 ; a {reason} suit or style: - {cause} {end} {estate} {order} regard.

THE WORD RENDERED “ORDER” HERE MEANS PROPERLY A 'WORD' ; 'A THING', 'A MATTER'; HENCE, 'A WAY' OR 'MANNER'. THE MEANING HERE IS,
THAT HE WOULD BE A PRIEST “AFTER THE MANNER” OF MELCHIZEDEK; OR,

SUCH A PRIEST AS HE WAS. HE WOULD NOT BE OF THE TRIBE OF LEVI; HE WOULD NOT BE IN THE REGULAR LINE OF THE PRIESTHOOD, BUT HE WOULD RESEMBLE, IN THE CHARACTERISTICS OF HIS OFFICE, THIS ANCIENT PRIEST-KING, COMBINING IN HIMSELF THE TWO FUNCTIONS OF PRIEST AND KING; AS A PRIEST, STANDING ALONE; NOT DERIVING HIS AUTHORITY FROM ANY LINE OF PREDECESSORS; AND HAVING NO SUCCESSORS..............


..........(C)   ALSO WE ARE 'NOT IN THE DARK' CONCERNING THE MANNER OF WHICH CHRIST 'WAS APPOINTED' A PRIEST 'SIMILAR' OR 'LIKE' OR 'IN RESEMBLANCE' OF MELCHIZEDECK THE ACIENT PRIEST, AS A ;PRIEST-KING, COMBINING IN HIMSELF THE TWO FUNCTIONS OF PRIEST AND KING,
AND JESUS 'DECLARED AS KING  OF KINGS,AND LORD OF LORDS' WHAT A FITTING AND UNDISPUTABLE SIMILARITIES?

OLAADEGBU: Do you know the difference between the Aaronic and Melchisedec priesthoods? and whose priesthood is our Lord Jesus Christ following after?

Joagbaje: But anitithers still insists on abusing and insulting others calling them MUGU , thieves etc. over their belief and faith.

Joagbaje: 10% of our earning belong to God . It's his honor. From age to age.

Joagbaje: 10% of our earning belong to God . It's his honor. From age to age. If you believe it and do. You experience it's benefit .

Joagbaje: But telling people that God has eliminated tithing is wrong when there's no single scripture about such.

Joagbaje: But telling people that God has eliminated tithing is wrong when there's no single scripture about such.

OLAADEGBU: The Levitical priesthood only came about 430 years after Melchi. This is what has been done away with not the Priesthood after the order of Melchisedec which is an everlasting Priesthood.

OLAADEGBU: What you need to know is that the practice of tithing shows an implicit responsibility toward God at least since the time of Abraham and this is what children of Abraham follow today.

debosky: If what we need to know is responsibility, let each person determine the specifics of that responsibility. The choice of whether to tithe or not should be left to the individual.

Joagbaje: I may not remember them all. Giving to parents for example . Honoring them with substance . Carry it's own blessing . Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for missing this out, because they teach people that once you give to God you don't need to give to patents. The point is ,one giving doesn't not supplant the other .

Mark 7:11-12
But [as for you] you say, A man is exempt if he tells [his] father or [his] mother, What you would otherwise have gained from me [everything I have that would have been of use to you] is Corban, that is, is a gift [already given as an offering to God],
Then you no longer are permitting him to do anything for [his] father or mother [but are letting him off from helping them].

So even if they give to God ,they must give to parents too. Because honoring parents is a principle which has its own blessing also. Before the law ,in the law and after the law .