₦airaland Forum

debosky: Zikky stop copying my questions jo.

Joagbaje: The point is simple . God demanded what is required in the tabernacle or temple for the running,upkeep of the work and welfare of ministers there.

Joagbaje: But whatever is not usable is redeemed with money and 20% extra is added. Either it's unclean plant or unclean animal. So Cash giving was optional.

Joagbaje: But whatever is not usable is redeemed with money and 20% extra is added. Either it's unclean plant or unclean animal.

Joagbaje: But whatever is not usable is redeemed with money and 20% extra is added.

debosky: Why are you referring to practices under the law here? I thought you said we don't tithe according to the law? So why are you quoting requirements from the Levitical priesthood? And I see you bringing in give to the priest so he can bless you. I thought we are following Abram's example, where he tithed AFTER the priest blessed him?

Joagbaje: No , you give it through a minister , because he is anointed .

Numbers 18:8
And the Lord spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them[b] by reason of the anointing[/b]. .

Joagbaje: There is a giving to the poor which is alms giving . We must all do that. But the giving to God must be done through minister .

Joagbaje: The importtant thing is thst we give God our tithe. the structure if collection is not the issue. the structure in the days if abrahsm was not exactly thesame under the law. We are not giving tithes according to the law or levitical structure .

Joagbaje: Tithe was given in cash and kind. How do you tithe from horses and dog sales, you bring the money of course . Do you bring horses or dogs as tithe ? Or Carmel or snakes . They only brought certain item which the temple requires . Other things are converted to money. They don't bring perishable things like tomatoes as tithe. They sell them and gave tithes of the income. Salary earners tithed!

Zikkyy: na wa oh! please read again God's definition of tithe below:

32 "Every tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod—will be holy to the Lord."

Joagbaje are telling us that every tenth dog, carmel and snake that passes under the shepherd's rod is holy to the Lord

Joagbaje: Did Abraham pass the booty under the rod?

Joagbaje: Tithe was given in cash and kind. How do you tithe from horses and dog sales, you bring the money of course . Do you bring horses or dogs as tithe ? Or Carmel or snakes . They only brought certain item which the temple requires . Other things are converted to money. They don't bring perishable things like tomatoes as tithe. They sell them and gave tithes of the income. Salary earners tithed!

Luke 18:12
I fast twice a week and tithe on all my income. '

Joagbaje: Where were they exempted. The Jews were farmers by default.

Zikkyy: you are saying Israelite rearing horses, dog, carmel or snake were required to tithe?

Joagbaje: Yes they gave tithes and offerings of things needed in the tabernacle. There are other things that people couldn't bring . Like perishable things. For example mint and anise are backyard plants not cash crops. It's like tomatoe garden in your house.

Zikkyy: Farmers sell portions of their harvest to purchase other goods and services they don't produce, God did not tell them to tithe from sales of their produce. The tithe was from increase in assets before it is sold.

Joagbaje: They were farmers by default. And what if the produce is unclean? Won't it be sold and money value given?

Zikkyy: Joagbaje, where did you read God telling the Israelite to tithe from sales or that salary earners tithed?

Joagbaje: Where were they exempted. The Jews were farmers by default.

Alwaystrue: Possibly you may take time to read the scriptures relating to Jesus Christ's words on tithe again and confirm if He said 'under the law' or 'of the law' and afterwards do explain why you have no issues with the other 'matters of the law' which include faith, justice (which is same as fairness and impartiality), love of God and mercy since they are also 'of the law' .

Alwaystrue: So it means tithe is weighty since the others are weighthier and if you notice the weighthier aspects he mentioned are offshoots of love. Which means with love it is possible to do all those. Tithe involves more of a physical action (tangible) while the other aspects Christ mentioned work more on the rightness of a heart (intangible) which aid proper carrying out of such acts and he said it should not be neglected. Jesus said all those he mentioned should be done as well as tithe so your deciding the latter part is not for you is strictly your business.

Joagbaje: Everyone gave tithe. What do you mean by hard earned income. Tithe was given in cash and kind. How do you tithe from horses and dog sales, you bring the money of course . Do you bring horses or dogs as tithe ? Or Carmel or snakes .

Joagbaje: Everyone gave tithe. What do you mean by hard earned income. Tithe was given in cash and kind. How do you tithe from horses and dog sales, you bring the money of course . Do you bring horses or dogs as tithe ? Or Carmel or snakes . They only brought certain item which the temple requires . Other things are converted to money. They don't bring perishable things like tomatoes as tithe. They sell them and gave tithes of the income.

Joagbaje: Tithing has nothing to do with the messiah .

Joagbaje: It's an everlasting principle .

Joagbaje: Jesus continues the ministry of Melchizedek .

DrummaBoy: The above quotes are the tragedy of modern day translations. Pls compare those verses to the King James and find their original meaning in the Greek, and U will see there is no such thing as PAY in those verses.

They are the translation by modern day prosperity gospellers to justify Pastors earning CEO salaries.

Period!!!

Joagbaje: Call it allowance , honoraruim or whatever ,but what is wrong with salary? All na pay.

nlMediator: First of all, I should have made clear that the 2 people in my story were classmates - read the same course, the same year and in the same school. So, theoretically, their chances in life should be similar.

nlMediator: They hate the ministry. In fact, their parents almost regret answering the call.

nlMediator: "WE" run out good people from ministry and turn around to complain that charlatans run the church.

Image123: i do not understand this. Are you saying that we should help others or do to others as we want them to do to us, only if we are expecting assistance from them?

Image123: You always have issues, i'm not perturbed.

Image123: Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Luk 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.


This is what Christ wants from all His followers.

Image123: So stop complaining when the church members have decided and are happy with it.

Image123: i do not think that members of MFM, Winners, DeeperLife, RCCG, Catholic, CEC etc are complaining that their pastors are (probably) being paid salary. Many of them are ready to give their eyes even.

Image123: 1Co 9:4 Have we not power to eat and to drink?
1Co 9:6 Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working?
The early church leaders had the power and choice to stop working if they wanted to, and the church was to take care of them. This is fact and truth.

Image123: Zikky, the thread is talking about ministers and their pay, not about church members that are not ministers and their care. You need to learn to look at things holistically, not just with an extremist's view of making every minister an Oyedepo.

Image123: i do not think anyone here has suggested that church members should not have good education. Decent education is not a luxury or comfort as you imply, it is what everybody should have.

Joagbaje: Here s difference between part time or lay pastor and a full time pastor. A lay pastor has his own job and business. He could be a banker, oil worker . Etc. 99% of pastors in our ministry have their jobs and businesses .they don't require support from church .

Joagbaje: But few who are into full time ministry , some have to resign from their lucrative jobs for the sake of their responsibility . Such has to be put on salary

Image123: .......So, a christian would need to be soundly drilled and convinced to agree that a minister of the gospel deserves to be paid. He is expected to only perhaps have his basic needs needs met. Basic needs in this case referring to feeding and clothing. There should be no thought for his family, he would not educate and raise his children, he would not send them to good schools,

Image123: ......he would not have enough as to be able to do all the things that you want and pray to do, becuase he is a minister abi.

Image123: You want to build house and become landlord of tenantS self, you want to buy car and change cars, buy for your wife and friends, you want to travel for courses, and go for vacation, you pray to be able to give quality education to your loved ones and kids in any part of the world, and to have access to the best medical care possible. But your minister should go and sit down and thank God that he can get breakfast today, shameless christains abound here.

Image123: It is normal christian duty to also minister unto them in carnal things. If you want to be paid and receive income constantly, you should want your neighbour to also receive constantly. You shouldn't be going about campaigning that they should receive only when you feel like giving them cheerfully.

Image123: They had the power and choice to stop working if they wanted to, and the church was to take care of them. You do not even need a Bible to know this. Even wicked thieves and politicians know this, but some people are too religious to know this.

Ihedinobi: Please explain the "support" part to me. What do you refer to as "support"? And support for what?

Bidam: .......The people you portray here are either not true believers or they have falling away like demas........

nlMediator: Oops, I posted a detailed response to you - or at least so I thought - but it looks like it never showed up. Oh well . . . .

Ihedinobi: According to the Scriptures, do ministers of the Gospel have any entitlement to a wage or not?

Image123: nice thread. It depends on administration and personal decision. Paul's decision was personal and not a law.Even he sad that they as ministers had power/right to do otherwise.

Ihedinobi: Here I will emphasize simply that regardless what percentage each believer might favor, every believer is "obliged" to provide for those who serve them spiritually and the poor brethren.

nlMediator: I concur that the tithe issue is blown out of proportion. Granted, there are abuses but the critics go overboard – attributing to tithe collection the level of ‘evil’ powers it does not have.

nlMediator: To put it in context, there are probably 100-200 pastors in Nigeria that are really rich. The rest (thousands) struggle even though they preach and collect tithes.

nlMediator: Nigerian churches here in the U.S. also preach tithes. But hardly any of them is quite rich.

nlMediator: Interestingly, I heard last month that a friend in the U.S. closed a church he opened here, choosing to minister as an evangelist.

nlMediator: Either he was not getting enough tithes or money could not keep him?

Bidam: It is no surprise that you will take my words and twists it to mean what it never said.

Bidam: You can go ahead and talk from both sides of your mouth and infer that i don't love God and i see the church as a profit making venture.

Bidam: .....And it is because of this myopic and demonic view of yours..........

Image123: Okay, tithe is not a tenth, but it is a tenth part of, or the tenth. i see. i will be replying your more serious posts.

Enigma: @debosky

Sorry, I've looked at your Maths again and I think it is correct.

Let's just say I am not fully awake yet (literally)!

Bidam: .....By the grace of God i can boldly say in this forum that it is the church that has been overburdened with needs of people,.....

Bidam: There are things that goes on in life and nobody says anything about it but when it comes to church issues you see all hell break loose.Take for instance MTN, nobody says it makes billions of dollars in Nigerian telecom sector.These guys have not given back to the community enough in terms of their social responsibility,yet nobody talks about it.The natural human person cannot even think that MTN is just out for the money and nothing else.

Here in Nigeria it's not up to 5 pastors that owns private jets,but it is on record that when the late saraki of ilorin died over 40 private jets landed in ilorin,and some of these jets where owned by imams.Where did imams get money to buy private jets? Is it not our tax payers money? Nobody is complaining about these things.

I know of bank executives who owns private jets using OPM(others people money) and people still see it as normal.Why is it that it's concerning the church you see most of these complains,arguments,negative criticism and rantings