₦airaland Forum

italo: Even the Bible derives its authority from the authority of the Church that produced it. If the Catholic Church had no authority to create, compile and canonize the Bible, we wouldn't accept it as such.

Reyginus: To say that the bible derived its authority from the church that compiled it, is wrong. By that, you're saying that the bible is subject to the church. The word of God can never be subject to anybody or group.

I want to believe he meant the compilation/collection of texts and not the text itself (that was my interpretation). I think what he is saying is that the collection of texts is subject to the church. The question i want to ask is this; who determines which texts to include in the bible? if the church determines what text to include and what to leave out, then i don't buy the idea of 'bible alone'.

italo: There is only one doctrine of our Lord Jesus Christ and the responsibility rests on the Church to interprete the Bible and teach us that doctrine. It is because you people feel that anyone can interprete the Bible any way you please that we now have millions of people teaching millions of different doctrines and claiming they are all from the ONE Holy Spirit.

The idea of the church leadership doing the interpretation makes a lot of sense but i am afraid it will not hold. I do agree there has to be some form of leadership to provide a direction (imagine millions of sheep running in different direction without a shepherd). what you are asking is that we leave our brains locked up in a vault when it comes to matters concerning interpretation of the bible (let the church do the interpretation). This could have been achieved if we never had access to the bible. Now that we can read, there is going to be questions.

"My Pastor or God , Who Should I Listen To ?"

For the regular church goer, i will say listen to your pastor jare after all that's one of the reason you are in church; to hear your pastor preach

eddy18: I believe what the Pastor was trying to communicate was that, you should not give what you ought to give to God to people, e.g tithes, and first fruits. Giving to your parents is part of honoring them, which is biblical.

What exactly are you saying? So you know what the pastor was trying to communicate abi? that if the money kept aside for your tithe or first fruit was all you have left at a point in time, you cannot use it to meet your 'obligation'/'responsibilities' to your parents or child because you already planned on giving it to the pastor (interpreted by you as giving to God)? I have the following verse for you:

Matthew 15:3-7 (NIV):
Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ 5 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6 they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you

truthislight: test:
can you consistently drink two bottles of maltina and coke every day for a month or more and i will drink two bottles of beer everyday for a month or more and lets see whose wisdom is more beneficial?

hmmm, 'shayo master' i don dey suspect you for some time now

Joagbaje: Giving to members of the family is not sowing . It's family responsibility . If I pay my child's school fees . Is that a seed? But giving to parents is honor and responsibility but it is not a seed .

if giving to family is an obligation, what was the basis for the pastor comparing giving to family and giving to pastor? you don't compare obligation to investment do you? unless she was try to convince them to abandon their obligation/responsibility and bring the money to church. That's the message am reading here; it's better to let your parents starve or even better for your child to forget about schooling so the person can donate (interpreted as sow by joagbaje) his scarce resources to a PJ flying, limo riding pastor

delkuf: Neddivine, God bless u. @op, is a sin, and a big one at that. let me ask, can u take a bottle of beer and stop, no u will want to cont until u get drunk.

I wonder where this theory is from. You think every other person is a drunkard like you?

FXKing2012: I've come to the conclusion that mr_anony is a false teacher [/b]misleading people which is why atheists agree with him.

Imagine him saying smoking and consuming alcohol is not bad. These are substances so dangerous to the body that even governments and unbelievers preach against them while a "Christian" who should operate on a even higher standard is advocating for such dangerous substances.[b]
The eeeeeeediot even equated cigarette and tattoo to food and water. Doesnt that tell you he even lacks wisdom as much as he's confused? Just imagine him teaching such in his church...

I unequivocally and without mincing words declare that mr_anony an agent of the devil out to mislead people. Remember the Bible says in the last days such people will abound and they will appear like agents of light deceiving people - even the very elect.

Mr. Anony don suffer

ijawkid: is there any other reason why people smoke apart from getting high??...please tell me zikky.......

Have told you before this time; I am not going to speak for others. Also consider the number of people that takes cocaine using syringe, am sure the larger proportion will be those abusing the drug abi? The drug (in my opinion) is rarely used for treatment. But you will not see the injection of cocaine via syringe a sin because medical people are likely to adopt that approach. If it is possible to achieve same objective by smoking or sniffing, the act itself can never be a sin even if 99.9% are abusing it. It is the abuse that's wrong.

ijawkid: What i should be hearing you say is that these hard drugs should be taken by christians for only medical reasons and under strict prescription ............we know why the majority of persons take cocaine,smoke igbo,smoke haze,etc......

The message from your post aligns very well with what have been saying. Your post is telling us you consider smoking grass & cocaine a sin because you are of the opinion 'majority of persons take marijuana & cocaine just to get high & do rubbish'. It's exactly what I have been saying; motive is what determine whether It's bad or not. It is not just because they smoked it, but they smoked it to get high.

ijawkid: Oya try to find out why people smoke marijuana....find another reason(good reason) if there is other than people getting high and tell all of us.......its your job now to tell me the merits of smoking marijuana...if you can't then smoking of that substance is bad.........prove me wrong.....remember my focus is on smoking.......

stop disturbing me jor have told you already. who says you can't smoke or sniff your medicine just as long as the medicine works. if the medicinal effect can be achieved by smoking or sniffing, then the act of smoking or sniffing is not wrong. what is wrong is why you decided to sniff or smoke.

ijawkid: What does a smoker of marijuana or cocaine plan to achieve if not just to get high and do rubbish...........is there any other reason why people smoke??...............eh??.............

I don't know. can't speak for others. the reason why i prefer to focus on the act itself. If you say smoking marijuana and cocaine for the purpose of getting high and doing rubbish is wrong, i will agree with you. but if you say smoking marijuana and cocaine is wrong, i am very likely to disagree. i want to believe you noticed the difference

ijawkid: ...........if after your wound got healed you started smoking heroine day and night then I would have to show you the scriptures to allign ya brains.................abi you still dey take the heroine??......

e no concern you

ijawkid: I earlier had directed my arguments.....................you were the one acting like you didn't know where we were heading to.........

it's difficult to say where you were heading to. There was no way i would have known if you were condemning the idea of taking cocaine or condemning it for the purpose of getting high and doing rubbish. That was why i asked my question, but you were not sure what my motive was so you decided your best response was to dodge the question.

Mr_Anony: Someone once told me that it is not what you say that matters rather it is what is heard that matters.

I agree. but sometimes you have to be sure you heard right the other party probably did his best ensuring he was as clear as possible.

Mr_Anony: We have to be very careful not to take liberty for license. I will respectfully not "define self-control" here because I am sure that you understand what the bible means but are only being cheeky.

The next thing you'll probably start doing is asking me at which point is the acceptable level of sanity kinda like the way a drunk person says "I'm ot drunk, I'm only tipsy". I refuse to engage in a discussion where one person feigns ignorance.

Oh com'on, you really expect me to do a thing like that before responding to posts i always want to be sure i got the other party right. It's wrong to assume you know Anyways, no issues

Mr_Anony: Now more to the point. I find no sin in taking marijuana/cocaine as part of your medication if they are for medical health purposes. The sin is not in the drugs themselves but in the motive as you rightly said.

Thank you my brother. That's what am talking about.

Mr_Anony: Thank God you were referring to health purposes when you were talking about marijuana and cocaine but please next time don't lead people to get the wrong impression. Clarify what you mean from the onset so that brethren don't merely swallow the soundbite

It's not my fault you guys mis-understood my question. It was just a question, all that militant needed to do was provide additional details by telling me why he is of the opinion taking cocaine or grass is bad. I did not at any time say whether it was good or bad, all i did was ask a question. Now you see why it is not always ideal to assume.

ijawkid: na you go list.......lets compare.......

you never ready

Image123: suspect no more, you're conversing with St. Image123 N.D, N.S, N.T (no drinking, no smoking, no tattooing).

Lol!

ijawkid: are u saying smoking it is good??......eh zikky?/...........how can you smoke marijuana and claim is for health reasons...??....

am not saying anything is good or bad. even swallowing it or cooking soup with it could be good or bad. What the guy trying to achieve with it should be a concern to me, not the act itself.

ijawkid: Remember you wanna focus on the taking of hard drugs ...............what has oyaks got to do with this discussion??............do the persons who loose control in christ embassy(when oyaks shadow crosses path with there bodies) do that as a result of there taking hard drugs??.....

This is a response to the issues of self control and not just 'hard' drug. There are other activities that makes you lose self-control (that is if i understand what you guys meant by self-control). The fact that it makes you lose self control is not the issue. I believe what you want to achieve with it should be the focus. I had an operation a long time ago, and i was being treated with (controlled doses) of heroine related drugs (according to the nurse). I was always high anytime the drug was administered. I bet you will call me pagan for getting high

ijawkid: ........I want you to tell me from the scriptures how the smoking of marijuana and ganja upbuilds a christian or pleases GOD....

Again it depends on what you want to achieve with it. afterall it's God that made everything for our use Lol!

ijawkid: .......have you lost your bible trained conscience??........

No i have not. am trying to give your argument a direction. so you just don't post for posting sake.

ijawkid: ......and can we list the benefits and disadvantages of taking in marijuana??

begin list na. Don't forget to do the same for cocaine o!

ijawkid: did you not hear me say smoking??...eh zikky??......

you don find liver to talk now that you know my motive abi smoking it does not change the medicinal benefit. anyhow you want to take it, as long as it does the job.

Mr_Anony: One question for you to ponder: How do you reconcile the fruit of the Spirit: Self-Control with smoking marijuana and cocaine?

Back to your question; you need to define this self-control o! does it have anything to do with being able to restrain ya-self from taking cocaine or being able to stay sane after a good 'smoke' Kindly clarify sir.

Image123: do you work with the Nigerian Police Force?

Not yet but that will not stop me from suspecting you na

Mr_Anony: Correct me then

It's a simple matter. below is the post i was responding to:

ijawkid: I bet smoking of marijuana and cocaine was mentioned there too...right??.........

I see people make statement like taking cocaine or marijuana is bad. These substances also have medicinal benefits. How it is used (for what purpose) determines whether it is bad or not. You might as well say the use of any other drugs is evil or sin as well. For me the focus should be on the purpose/motive of the user. I was expecting the man to provide more details on what he meant by marijuana and cocaine being un-scriptural. The man has been avoiding me since

Mr_Anony: Then we have a big problem on our hands.

Perhaps you can start by telling me why would a person snort a line of coke other than getting high? What other purpose is there to sniff cocaine?

Lol you getting it wrong.

Mr_Anony: I think we've come to that point where you now need to answer

you are right. i don't think that militant will ever respond.

there are two issues i will be responding to here:

1. the purpose for asking the question.

2. though it's really of no relevance to my objective, i would like to understand what you meant by self-control.

Mr_Anony: Wow! just wow!

Are you for real??

am for real o!

ijawkid: ...even your conscience go answer that question for you....

My conscience tells me there are no issues with marijuana and cocaine. Its the reason i asked that question. cos it appears you have issues with the idea of smoking marijuana and cocaine.

Image123: iyah! see as what tithe things join together, tattoo and marijuana wan put asunder for hia. o ma se ooooo!
it will be well

@image123, am begining to suspect you smoke marijuana o! cos your posts these days appears to have been influenced by something beyond your control

ijawkid: you didnt read when he connected the fruit of self control with taking hard drugs??....u no see am??

Where? is it this one below:

Mr_Anony: One question for you to ponder: How do you reconcile the fruit of the Spirit: Self-Control with smoking marijuana and cocaine?

or this one:

Mr_Anony: I don't have to show the bible specifically mention cocaine. All I have to show is that the Holy Spirit is a Spirit of Self-Control. As long as hard drugs make a person lose self-control, they are evil.

you people need to define what you mean by self-control cos i don't know what you guys mean by that word o! we all know that there are a lot of things that makes people lose 'self-control' (whatever that means), even when Mr. Anony is doing his thing with his madam, there is that point in the process when the man looses 'self-control' is that one evil as well? go to pastor chris embassy and see people loosing self-control anytime their body cross path with oyaks shadow is that one evil? people can lose self control when they are sick. you can see you have not answered my question. am expecting a proper answer from you abeg

ijawkid: Anony has answered that question...........

Where?

ijawkid: ........I have noticed engaging in your selfish desires has taken first place,while scriptural principles have gone to the back ground...........

now you are saying zikkyy smoke grass and sniff cocaine just to avoid my question

ijawkid: ......and I know what I'm talking about.....

...and you dey fear to answer you see yourself

ijawkid: ..........I know you zikky can do anything and claim you are serving God with it..............if you like smoke and push drugs na you sabi.........

There are no claim of servig God with marijuana & cocaine. All that's required from you is to tell me what's wrong with smoking marijuana and cocaine. you do begin fear? abeg answer my question so people can see you don't know what you are talking about

ijawkid: I no go answer your question....anony go answer am for you.............

you see yourself always making accusations you cannot defend now you are looking to Mr Anony to rescue you.

Mr_Anony: What?? Oh no??

One question for you to ponder: How do you reconcile the fruit of the Spirit: Self-Control with smoking marijuana and cocaine?

i will answer after i have finished with that young militant.

ijawkid: Chineke!!!!!!!......zikky you again...??...............u dey ask me this kin question??..........

abeg answer my question jor Cheneke no dey for this matter