₦airaland Forum

truthislight: this is one of the best argument you have ever made on this forum that i have ever red.

Good.

This man you be teacher? it appears you are grading my posts.

Image123: @zikky
By the grace of God, i still adhere to the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith.

Apostle Paul became as one under the law to gain those under the law. You image123 became a Jew (subject yourself to the mosaic law) for what purpose? so you can hammer abi? You see where your desire for wealth (cash) has taken you to?

Image123: @zikky
By the grace of God, i still adhere to the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith. Do you?

No, i don't adhere to the weightier matters of the (mosaic) law. i don't even adhere to the (mosaic) law.

Image123: @zikky
The moral lesson is that tithe was received after the law

You have refused to answer a simple question. Who received tithe after the law? if you truly believe tithe was received after the law, answer the question na

Image123: @zikky
nobody complained about tithes except you folks trying to force your dislike into the Bible.

You don't expect peeps to complain when they are not tithing, do you? The Gentiles complained when they received told they must be circumcised and also required to observe the mosaic law. read Acts 15.

Read Apostle Paul in his letter - Corinthians:

1 Corinthians 9:20-21 (KJV)
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

If Paul became like the Gentiles, how is it possible he instructed them to tithe? BTW who collects such tithe?

Joagbaje: If you have something to teach .im all ears

This is the reason we have problem with you here using your 'ears' to read from your computer screen, lol you see yourself

Image123: debor
Tithe was before biblically before the law, during the law, and after.

after ke! who tithed after the law?

Image123: debor
Hebrews 7 mentions of men that RECEIVE tithes.

yep, the Hebrew verse refers to Levites.

Image123: debor
You can't fail to see the weightier matters of the law and be bullying the light weights.

whether weightier or lighter is not relevant here. If the weightier matters of the law is not relevant to Christians, why should we be bothered bout the light weights. The simple truth is that the Law is not applicable. Don't tell me you are still adhering to the matters of the law? If you are you better comply 100% o! So when is the next burnt offering taking place at your end

Image123: debor
The Scripture plainly teaches of the sacrifices we should offer in the NT which are better and more acceptable. It does nothing of such for tithes, instead Jesus commended and approved it.

this your statement is not complete. Let me help: Jesus commended and approved the practice of rendering a tenth of agric produce to the Levites in accordance with the law you don't have to thank me, afterall that's what friends are for

Am very sorry Image, am not trying to insult you here. so please don't take my comment as an insult

Image123: So, tell me how I'm in bondage please. i thought freedom was in Jesus, you seem to suggest its hinged on tithes. please clarify again.

Honestly, it will be difficult explaining this to you, so am not so keen on doing that. It's like telling a mad man he is mad; how do you expect him to understand

Image123: what fraud? i can't follow your ungodly advice of erasing a Bible chapter. no thanks.

What's wrong with erasing Mathew 23 from Image123 personal bible? you don't need it na. After all you don't read the full chapter you are happy just reading verse 23.

Image123: what fraud?

I don't expect you see it.

You are in bondage my friend. you've made yourself a slave to a law that was never meant for you. we have your pastor to thank for that

seriallink: Christian worship styles are all over the NT! Paul and other early Christians wrote letters to new Christian converts, giving them guildlines on how to worship God in spirit and truth! They never used any borrowed pagan styles of worship to teach!

Please list them, and show how they are different from the pagan worship styles.

and you think it's not the pagan tradition that first borrowed from the Christian worship style? or you think the pagans don't also worship their god in spirit and truth?

seriallink: The standard I'm talking about is in the Bible, anything borrowed from pagan tradition to please some pagan converts is wrong! That was my point.

It is this standard am interested in. It's not enough to say somebody is not doing the right thing if you cannot show the person what the right thing is. If there is a standard of worship Christians must adhere to, we need to know and learn. If the standard or worship program is cast in stone (i.e. cannot be modified) we need to know. I believe you understand.

seriallink: but I'm sure adopting & bringing pagan worship style into Christianity is wrong!

What exactly is the Christian worship style? is there a standard form of worship for Christians? did Jesus or the apostle produce a 'standard worship program' that we must use when worshiping? did the 'standard worship program' (if it exist) says there can be no modification? if you have that info, please share. i believe that will silence the Catholics, otherwise i will say you don't know what you are talking about.

Goshen360: Jesus is not Melchizedek and Melchizedek is not Jesus. It means Melchizedek was “something” or that he “set a pattern/order” and Jesus was “after or according to that something, pattern or order” fulfilling the type/shadows in which Melchizedek was. Melchizedek was a man (Heb. 7:4) and no man fall from heaven, he had to be born of a woman - this will be explained in details as we continue.

Carry go jare

@Joagbaje, i want to believe you are reading and learning

julietjuks: MEN AND BRETHREN,LISTEN TO ME.PAY UR TITHE.BELIEVE UR MAN OF GOD.BELIEVE UR PROPHET AND PROSPER. DONT GIVE TO THIS LIES AND DECEPTION THAT DESTROY MENS FAITH AND POISON THEIR SPIRIT HAVING SHIPWRECKED THEIR FAITH.DO THE WORD AND LEAVE THEM ARGUEMENTATORS AGAINST KINGDOM PRINCIPLES.,hear wisdom.....

This is the height of desperation maybe due to dwindling tithe collections am very sure you benefit from tithe takings.

julietjuks: MEN AND BRETHREN,LISTEN TO ME.PAY UR TITHE.BELIEVE UR MAN OF GOD.BELIEVE UR PROPHET AND PROSPER. DONT GIVE TO THIS LIES AND DECEPTION THAT DESTROY MENS FAITH AND POISON THEIR SPIRIT HAVING SHIPWRECKED THEIR FAITH.DO THE WORD AND LEAVE THEM ARGUEMENTATORS AGAINST KINGDOM PRINCIPLES.,hear wisdom.....

Goshen is yet to start and you are already in panic mode. una never see anything

Pastor Kun: And what is the source of these 'infancy narratives'? Does this confirm the belief that the catholic church has several other early christian literature which was not canonised into the bible. Books hidden in the vatican vaults for centuries.

Its possible the Vatican is holding information we don't know about. Maybe if you know you will stop attending church anyhow, Pope go 'hammer' with this book. i just hope he will not buy a private jet with the proceeds.

Image123: i've read 24. should i erase Matthew 23 from my Bible?

If erasing Mathew 23 will free you from the tight grip of this pastoral fraud, please do

Image123: i've read 24. should i erase Matthew 23 from my Bible?

no be my fault. i don't think i have read you quoting anything after Mathew 23 before now

Joagbaje: Work of ministry and welfare of priest were done through tithes and offerings . Same thing goes for the church today.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

You talk about principle but don't recognize one when you see it. What do you think is the principle here?

Joagbaje: Tithing and offering existed before the law.

if tithes and offering existed before the law nko? this is not news

Joagbaje: They are both spiritual principles.

then teach it as spiritual principle. simple

Joagbaje: There is never a place tithing was condemed .

nobody condemns the giving of tenth to the church. why would anybody condemn the act of giving? why? what is being condemn is the teaching that Christians are required to comply with the Mosaic tithe requirement, or that God demands tithe from Christians. Why is this so difficult for you guys to understand

Joagbaje: Jesus said men should tithe .

Yes he did, he said the Jews should tithe in accordance with the Mosaic law. but as always (and as expected) your statement is not complete.

Joagbaje: Work of ministry and welfare of priest were done through tithes and offerings . Same thing goes for the church today.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Priests lived of the items presented at the altar and in a similar way those that preach the gospel should live of the gospel. This means that those that preach the gospel are to obtain their livelihood from preaching the gospel. This could come in any form, the Lord did not mandate it should be in tithe and offerings.

Joagbaje: Why is tithes attacked? Why is offering not attacked? You can't separate the two. God said "you rob me in tithes and offerings"

What do mean we can't separate the two? the larger chunk of the offerings in the Malachi verse refers to burnt offerings. Are you saying we can't separate separate burnt offerings from tithe?

Image123: count me in Gosh, count me in.
Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

@Mathew 23:23....oh sorry i meant @image123,

count into wetin? don't you have better thing to do with your time? like reading Mathew 24. It appears you are unable to progress beyond Mathew 23. abi na Mathew 23 your bible end?

alexleo: You didnt make sense here because i just replied the way bookmark asked me the question. Why should i deny my church

are you sure? okay check out bookmark second question:

Boomark: My own Question is: do they believe in trinity?

....and your response below

alexleo: Yes [size=14pt]we[/size] believe in trinity.

boomark was not asking if you believe in trinity abi? but you were a bit more comfortable with this question and proud to be associated with the church anyhow, don't mind me sha, posting here is usually for fun.

Maxymilliano: Dollar is a measure, Naira is another measure, Euro is another and Pounds is another measure. If you want returns in Dollars, sow in Dollars. Do not sow in Naira and be expecting a harvest in Euro. It does not work like that.

You can be in any country and sow in the particular currency in which you want your harvest. Sow and keep on sowing in that currency. By the time your harvest comes, you will celebrate. In addition, the various denominations of each currency are different measures too. Take for instance the Nigeria Naira, you have N1000, N500, N200, N100, N50, N20, N10 and N5 notes. It is the particular denomination that you use that God will multiply and return to you. If you keep using the smallest of the denominations and think you are thrifty or wise, you are only limiting yourself. Do yourself a favour by using the biggest denominations so as to get the greatest harvest.

If this continues, it's likely there will be food shortage in the near future as more and more people sow cash instead of agric seeds.

italo: The teaching that the Bible is the final authority and that all Christian teachings should be Bible based is not "Bible based" (not in the Bible). Because the Bible was compiled and created almost 400 years after Jesus died and there were already Christian teachings before then. The Bible does not even say that we should read the Bible. The Bible does not even say that Jesus told his apostles to make a Bible. The Bible doesn't mention "Bible", so where does your Church get the book or even the word from?

True talk.

italo: And still, I humbly demand an answer to my question:

WHO APPOINTED "THE APOSTOLIC FAITH CHURCH" AS THE AUTHENTIC INTERPRETER OF THE BIBLE for all the other hundreds of thousands of "churches" that teach something different based on their own interpretation of the Bible, and where does the Bible say that?

That is another teaching of your "church" that is not in the Bible, unless you can show me.

This going to be a difficult question. Don't expect an answer. I think am beginning to agree with ogoamaka that it is a matter of personal/(pastoral) opinion though ogoamaka does not know what he/she is talking about and that's my opinion

alexleo: All their teachings are right and bible based.

You had to disown your church before responding to italo, why na?

alexleo: I simply pointed out some catholic teachings that are not bible based. Point out the ones u think are not bible based in my church. Any teaching that is not bible based is dangerous.

I think you need to explain what you mean by 'teachings that are not bible based', otherwise it will be interpreted to mean teachings not written in the bible. You cannot say that because you will be relying on a 'teaching that is also not bible based' to make this assertion.

But if you are trying to say teachings not supported by the bible, you will make more sense. That is not saying you are right or wrong sha.

Joagbaje: I quoted king James , what makes it fraud?

Always shine your eye when reading my posts. not referring to the source of your quote. Quoting KJV is no proof that KJV influences your opinion. am more concerned with the bible versions you are using to support your views.

Joagbaje: It's a discussion , he has something meaningful to say , but do you ?

You don't need my views Jo, no need for it. Snowwy already doing a good job cleaning the floor (with your afro . )

@Joagbaje, you need to throw away that fraud inspired version of bible you've been reading. See as small boys & girls dey use you do ye.ye for here. Snowwy is very correct.

ijawkid: Why are you so funny??.....

I never knew alexleo was an atilogwu dancer...lmao

My brother, na so i see am

salt 1: Mal 3:10
Bring ye all the tithes...that they may be meat in mine house...saith the LORD
I am not giving tithes to my pastor. I am giving it to God in His house where it will be used for orphans and widows and support those that are Levites(the fulltime people working in the different depts to preach,publish and pray for the work).

@salt 1, i am not contesting your decision to render a tenth of your earnings to your church (for the purpose of helping the orphans, widows e.t.c), that's between you and God. Honestly, i think it is a good thing. If your intentions are sincere, i believe God will continue to bless you for it. What i want you to take away is to stop seeing your actions as an attempt to fulfill Malachi 3:10. That teaching is poison designed by pastors to create fear & greed in man. As noted in my first response to you, God does not desire tithe from Gentiles. The requirement in Malachi 3:10 refers to God definition of his tithe in Leviticus 27:30-33 and how he instructed the tithe be paid in Numbers 18:21-31 and Deuteronomy 14:22-29 (read: God defined gave his definition of the tithe that is sacred to him; he did not say a tenth of anything, he said a tithe/tenth of the produce from the land and it is this same (tithe-able) items he defined the beneficiaries in Numbers & Deuteronomy. God did not say "pay your tithe into the storehouse", He said pay the tithe i defined in Leviticus 27 to the Levite who in turn will render their tithe to the High Priest. We know a good portion of the tithed items ended up in the store house for storage & distribution purposes only. The Jewish Christian did not tithe to Jesus or the Apostles, that would be contrary to the law. Only Leves received tithe, so tithe must go to the temple with a Levi high priest presiding. Tithe ended the day the priesthood was changed.

You should note also that the Israelite did not practice Abrahamic type tithe (i.e. rendering a tithe/tenth of war loot to the high priest) as your pastor would advise. Tithing is not just giving a tenth of anything. If you want to fulfill the biblical tithing command, you must perform it as stated in the bible, otherwise give your tenth because you want to (and not because the bible says you should).

Boomark: where are the levites you give your tithe?

If you must know, i don't tithe. So there is no need looking a Levite to receive my tithe.

Boomark: What he wants is until you make the Pope your salvation and worship idol, then you are teaching the truth.

Scores are not based on the ultimate objective/aim of the participants (whatever that may be). Scores are based on how well the participants are able to tackle the question. Italo responded well to the question even though he was the one that raised it (no wuru-wuru for there), alexleo was just dancing atilogwu round the question without touching it.

Boomark: Italo really made no point.

This is what happens when you allow sentiment or emotions distort your reasoning.

Boomark: It is alexleo 5 : -10 italo.

fans and well-wishers awarding official marks! It's not done anywhere o! you better keep your marks to yourself (edited) as the official referee (umpire) for the match, MY DECISION IS FINAL!

salt 1: I am really struggling to understand you. The quotation I used are the direct words of Jesus saying that in addition to paying tithes, you shouldn't forget justice and mercy. So how is that old testament?

The Jews were not tithing for fun. in the bible tithe is not something you do anyhow you like, there are procedures for it. The tithe Jesus was referring to is the tithe of farm produce the Jews (other eleven tribes of Israel) takes to the Levites; it is the tithe of farm produce the Jews take to the place that God chooses as his dwelling place and they are to jollof with it; it is the tithe they take (every third year) to the city gate (not church) for the Levites, the alien, the widows to jollof. The Jew cannot & will not pay his tithe to somebody from the tribe of Benjamin (or any of the other eleven tribe). So my friend when Jesus said to tithe, you need to understand what he was talking about. The tithe of agric produce belong to God, it is sacred to him and he gave specific instructions on how that tithe is to be paid. That instruction have not changed. If your pastor tells you to bring God's tithe to him, then he is a thief! He is the one robbing God

alexleo: Where did i say that we are wrong? I said we keep seeking to know more of God and as we know more of him we keep adjusting where we are found wanting. In other words as we keep knowing him, we keep growing in various areas of our work and teaching. Growth is part of life and it is when you dont grow where you are supposed to grow that is an error.

Why is it difficult to answer simple Yes or No na? So if i was an unbeliever and you come to me preaching the good news, and i ask that you confirm if your teachings are truth, our discussion will go down this way:

Zikkyy: "The message i am hearing, i really liked it. But are you sure of what you are saying? are you telling me the truth? I don't want to convert only to find i am worshiping Sango younger brother o!"

alexleo: "well....i can't say am there yet sha. we are still seeking to understand this God-Jesus thingy".

Zikkyy: "you mean you are not even sure if Jesus is the son of God or not?"

alexleo: "It's not like that. It just that as we keep seeking him, we understand better and anywhere we found we have passed the wrong message, we quickly adjust or modify our initial view and message. you know how this thing goes"

Zikkyy: "You mean this message can change anytime you receive an improved understanding?"

alexleo: "you understand na"

Zikkyy:

alexleo:

Zikkyy: come back and talk to me when you receive the final understanding.

I really don't see how you want me to believe you are serious. Anyhow, see your report card below:

alexleo 0 : 1 italo (final score)

CASE CLOSED

italo: If the Apostolic Faith Church teaches error in any matter of faith and morals, then it cannot be God's Church or part of God's Church. The Church, the body of Christ cannot teach error.

Teaching error would mean that the Church might be teaching people things that can even lead them to hell.
.

@alexleo, I believe you have heard (abi na read), so what do you have to say?

obalola7: The best answer depends on who is giving you the answer. Would you tell someone whose church has told that divine healing exist and he practicalized it in his life and got heal to tell you it was wrong?
Or someone who practicalized divine healing and he was not healed to tell you it was right?

It goes beyond experience. There are some teachings you don't experience (at least not while you are still around here) e.g the issue of trinity or any teaching on afterlife.