₦airaland Forum

Image123: @zikky
The point is that people received tithes after the law and were not condemned or castigated by any of the apostles. If anything, they were encouraged.

encouraged ke? who encouraged who. I don't know of any receiver of tithe that was encouraged to continue in the business of receiving tithe o!

Image123: @zikky
Paul said, he was not without law, but under the law, and he encouraged gentiles to follow him.

Your problem is that wherever you read the word 'law' in the bible, you assume it is the mosaic law that's being discussed. You don't even understand the verse you are quoting

Image123: i guess you don't need loooove in your life o? The goal and purpose and summary of the law is love, and love still needs to be adhered to.
1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

if the goal and purpose of Goodluck Jonathan campaign was to win the 2011 election, do you think it would make any sense for him to continue the campaign after wining the election. You can imagine the president asking for your vote in 2012 for an election that was concluded in 2011 talk better thing abeg

Image123: how could a praise and show from scriptures on the importance of the law be irrelevant to a discussion stating that the law is irrelevant. i guess only want you agree to is relevant to the discussion. How again do you expect the relevance to be shown. i showed you that the OT prophets said the law is relevant. James, John, Peter and Paul said that the law is relevant.
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Pro 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.
Are these passages irrelevant to christians?

You are telling us Isaiah and David's opinion of the law? In fact i consider the part of your post to be irrelevant to the discussion

Image123: The early christians respected the law as the Word of God. It was their scriptures.(Can you dispute any of these sentences?) They all commended it, it's then unfortunate how you out of context decide to deride the law and condemn it.
Hear James on the law, he thought the law was perfect. he was writing to christians!
Jam 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Once again you assume James was talking about the Mosaic law

Image123: Hear David, a man after God's heart.
Psa 119:128 Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.

This man stop this rough play, i am no longer finding this funny

Image123: Hear John the beloved,
1Jo 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
What he is saying is in paraphrase that "what i'm telling you is not different from the OT which hangs on love, according to Jesus".

Nonsense! old commandment in this case is not the OT. you continue to show you have problem interpreting the scriptures

Image123: Hear Peter, he encouraged the listeners to listen to the old,
2Pe 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Savior:
He said listen to the old guys, then us. But your folks here are saying "Pull out the old guys and the four gospels, lets listen to the after the law guys". Be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets e.g Malachi, moses

What has the words of the prophet gat to do with christians adhering to the Law. If the prophets prophesy the coming of Christ, what has that gat to do with christians adhering to the law?

Image123: Hear Paul the apostle,
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
To imagine that Paul delights in the law, considers it good, holy and spiritual! He must be kidding, right?

Paul said "Act 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing ALL things which are written in the law and in the prophets: " . Paul, AFTER the law, believed EVERYTHING written in the law. Remember he kept the law, even made vows and cleansing rites in the temple AFTER the law. He believed in Malachi 3, and in Genesis 14. He believed ALL.

Brother image123, i think you have lost touch with reality.

Image123: Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.
Whatsoever things include tithes mrs zikky.

For your learning abi? you agree it's not for you to practice. so what exactly did you learn from the OT tithing practice?

Image123: @zikky
1Co 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
1Co 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
EVEN SO, just like God took care of the levites in the OT, those which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. god took care of them with tithes and offerings , and EVEN SO it is to be done in the NT.

Even so abi? you realize the that God took care of the priest with tithe & offerings. Offerings here includes sin offering, guilt offering, cereal offering e.t.c If the priest were maintained with part of meat and cereals burnt on the altar, even so they should be maintained with burnt offerings today abi? you see yourself

Image123: @zikky
Ys, this is my position. you may also note that Gosh doesn't agree with the bolded. My point remains that people received tithes after the law in the time of the apostles, none of them condemned it or spoke ill of it. What you guys are doing as anti-tithers is not scriptural.

Goshen is not saying the levite did not receive tithe after the law. What he is disputing is your reliance (and interpretation) on Hebrew 7:8 to prove that tithe was received after the law. That Hebrew verse is not talking about tithing activities after law. Goshen is very correct.

It may be true that people received tithe after the law, but they were not Christians. If the Jews continued to offer burnt offering & tithe after the law, it is of no relevance to Christianity.

Image123: @zikky
i responded to and quoted the below, are you not the one that said it?
"Paul's behavior among the gentiles was that of one not under the bondage of the mosaic law. The weightier and minor matters of the mosaic law were not relevant in his dealings with the gentiles, only the law of Christ was relevant."
Why would Paul quote the law copiously in ALL his letters to the gentiles if they were not relevant to his dealings?
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
1Co 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
1Ti 5:18 For the Scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The laborer is worthy of his reward.

....and i spent time explaining what i meant by the law not being relevant in Paul's dealings with the gentiles, but as expected you guys don't read. I will say it one more time so you don't keep making irrelevant posts: Paul did not require the gentiles to adhere to the requirement of the mosaic law, simple.

Image123: @zikky
Fortunately, the verses are in praise of the law, as against the trampling and the deriding of the law that you folks consider a virtue. You need to understand also, that keeping the law of God in the NT is not a requirement to salvation.

Praise the law all you want, it does not change anything.

Image123: @zikky
Faith, mercy, love and judgement are major mattes of the law and they are relevant to real Christians.
1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Faith, mercy,love and judgement was in operation before the law and after the law. faith, mercy, love and judgement is also practiced by pagans.

Image123, loving God because the law says you should love is not real love. and that is the kind of love you get from tithers like yourself; love driven by fear and greed.

Image123: Meaning, on the same premise, while tithe is a minor part of the law, my giving tithe is not driven by the requirement of the law. Why is it so difficult for you to understand?

If your tithing is not driven by the requirement of the law, why do you keep referring to the law to justify your action?

Image123: you are the ones insisting that the premise for not paying tithes is that the law is 'no more', and we are telling you that there is no more law, there is no more love, faith, mercy, not only tithes.

I asked a question you are yet to answer. let me repeat it here: if the commandment "thou shall not kill" and "thou shall not obtain ya neighbor's wife" was never part of the law, can you image123 kill your brother for the fun of it? or can you steal your neighbors wife because you are image123 collecting peeps wife is what you do? Your response to this question will help in understanding 1 Timothy 1:9

1 Timothy 1:8-9 (KJV)
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

If you can kill in the absence of a law (& punishment) for murder, then the law is made for you and you belong to the category of peeps listed in the quote above. The man with the spirit of God in him cannot commit murder in the absence of the command "thou shall not kill".

This is the problem with tithers like yourself, you tithe because you believe the devourer will come knocking if you don't, it is not because you love God. That's what the law does to you, it makes you do things you ordinarily will not do.

Image123: and we are telling you that there is no more law, there is no more love, faith, mercy, not only tithes.

It's stupid for anybody to think that the love, faith, mercy goes with the law. If there was another commandment to tithe after the law, it would also be stupid for anybody to say there is no more tithe because the law is no more. Unfortunately, there is no commandment to tithe after the law

Image123: My claim? i do not understand that part. Tithe is a tenth, stop dodging issues.

Tithe is a tenth? so if my income is N20,000 and i decide to give a tenth of N10,000 (i.e. N1,000), can this giving be considered a tithe? afterall it is a tenth N10,000. You see why your comment don't make any sense. Tithe is a tenth, but not all tenth are tithe. You must properly define your tithe.

Image123: In actuality, it was God and He does not change.

What do you mean it was God? are you saying it was God that collected tithe?

Joagbaje: another cheap lie for ne
wspaper sale. 5,000 dollar inside vault. gateman vault or cleaner vault?

Are you saying the money is too small?

Joagbaje: ...
Christian tithing is not according to law but by faith of individuals. Tithing is a spiritual principle, as others ,such as prayer, intercession,alms giving, honoring father and mother etc.

The concern here is how do you even begin to preach tithe as a spiritual principle? What makes a fixed percentage of my income a spiritual principle? The only difference i see between tithing and other givings is that it is determined as 10% of my income (the pastoral definition). you are not providing full disclosure when you say tithing is a spiritual principle. The way you guys describe it, tithing is not just 10% it must be a tenth of my total income.

I could have given a tenth of my basic salary to the church/pastor, i can chose to give a tenth of one month salary as annual tithe (it is still a tenth); assuming i have interest in two or more businesses, i could decide to give a tenth from just one of them. The problem is you guys don't see these transactions as tithing. Abraham gave only a tenth of war spoils (Melchi was not always around on a monthly or annual basis to collect Abby's tithe from his agric business); Jacob determined when and how he was to give his tithe. It was not determined by God or priest (Jacob was not tithing prior to his journey. he probably gave his tenth years or decades after his vow. that is if he gave at all. It could have been a one tithe event); the Mosaaic law did not define tithe as a strict 10%, and it did not define tithe as 10% from all takings/earnings.

Prayer is as determined by the individual, same for intercession, alms giving and honoring your parents. There is no fixed approach to it. Why is tithe different? if Christians don't tithe according to the law, why is the definition fixed? what is the basis for the modern day tithing practice? Joagabje, i just don't see how you can talk about tithe today without tying it to the law.

Joagbaje: Precisely ! Now you're talking.

Its actually 'now Joagbaje is reading'. I have been saying the same thing for three years

Joagbaje: The reason we tithe is not because the law says so .

I hope you will assist in convincing Image123 that tithers don't tithe (or should not be tithing) because it's a requirement of the law.

Joagbaje: The reason we tithe is not because the law says so .

We know this is not true, as i am yet to see a tither & pastor that don't rely on Malachi 3:10 as the basis for tithing.

Deep Sight: Earlier this week (Tuesday, I believe) Pastor Matthew Ashimolowo was at HICC Church in Gbagada as a Guest Preacher.
He wondered why these "blessings" are not available to those who could not afford such sums.

this was a special 24hour blessing session denominated in foreign currency. if you want to fast track your blessings you pay more.

plappville: It is Christ and two angels that came to visit Abraham.

You talk like you were in attendance. na wa for you

Joagbaje: Nice ,I never thought of that .

You are so desperate you'll agree with anything that support your cause. am sure if image123 come here to say donkeys were tithing after the law, your response will be: "jeez, that's brilliant. why didn't i think of that"

Joagbaje: Voluntary giving is of the law as well, giving to the poor was of the law as well. Why pick some and fight some

why is it so difficult for you guys to understand that the his voluntary giving is not because it is stated in the law! Christians don't give to the poor because the law says they should give to the poor. Nobody is picking anything from the law! we have gone past the law. It just people like you and image123 that relies on the requirement of the law.

truthislight: yes the temple was active but what was done there was not christianity.

Agreed. in fact image123 already confessed he was referring to levi priests collecting tithe in accordance with the law.

truthislight: ^^^
that is a lie!

Unless you dont know how the law came to an end.

It is christ blood that put the law to an end.
So, when christ was alive the law was still in force.

There may be something in his post. The reason i agreed that people (levi priests) received tithe after the law. You know the temple was still active after crucifixion up till 70AD (i think).

Image123: @Gosh
Jesus approved of tithes, He wasn't making any distinctions. Tithe is simply 10% of income.

Was it Jesus that defined tithe as 10% of income? Who defined tithe as 10% of income? where in in the bible is tithe defined as 10% of your income?

Bidam: Giving is the only proof that u have conquered GREED and that includes tithes and offering:..mike murdock

This is true only if you are giving without expecting anything in return.

Image123: @Gosh
We KNOW that the law is good. He told the romans that we ESTABLISH the law.

Lol! who established the law Paul? or Image123? Apostle image stop quoting what you don't understand abeg you

Image123: @Gosh
But a sinner needs a law to convict him. Where there is no law, there is no sin.

Are you now saying the law is for sinners only, now that you agreed the law is not meant for the righteous man? Image, you are confused you are just wasting bandwith here. You think one has to make long irrelevant posts to make sense here

Image123: @Gosh
you can't forget all of the scripture and build on a verse not read in its context!
1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

The law is not made for a righteous man i.e the law is not made BECAUSE OF a righteous man. A righteous man is obeying the law already. He's not lying or committing fornication or profane, or a murderer. But a sinner needs a law to convict him. Where there is no law, there is no sin. Abraham can marry his sister because there is no law against it.

Apostle image123, just one question sir. If the mosaic law that says thou shall not kill was deleted from the 10 commandment, can you point a loaded gun at your brother's head and pull the trigger for the fun of it?

You said the goal of the commandment is love. Was that goal achieved by reliance on the law? Did it ever occur to you that the levite would probably have died of starvation if not for the law to tithe. did you observed that God continued to use threat to ensure compliance (e.g. Malachi 3:10), did you observed that the Israelite periodically stray from the rightful path to worship other gods and only returns under threat? Do you really think you can give in love when the driving force is the threat that your income/business will be consumed by the devourer if you don't comply? The reason why a man would abandon a brother in need to pay his tithe.

It appears somebody like you would go haywire without the law to control or put your fleshy desires in check. so anytime you sight your neighbor's wife your thoughts would be like: "damnnn, this lady is fine. i really must get down with her " then remembering the 10th commandment you say "ohhh shi.t, damn that law " You image123 are still working according to the flesh that's why you need the law. some of us have moved to the next level.

Romans 8:2-4 (KJV)
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Titus 2:11-14 (KJV)
11 [size=16pt]For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;[/size] Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Image123: @Gosh
AFTER indeed. You should have seen it earlier if you were not too busy with your soliloquy. Debosky and zikky were aware and even quoted the verse i think.
Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

You kept saying tithe was received after the law now, and after some serious pressure you come up with the info that the Levites are the receiver of tithes after the law. what exactly is the point? all this while i thought you were going to reveal some hidden secrets am disappointed

Image123: @Gosh
i see this scripture wan bend your bones small, and may also some others if not read in its right context. Permit me to share.
1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
'The end'there refers to the GOAL or the PURPOSE. The goal of the commandment is love. The purpose of the commandment/law is love. It's similar to what Jesus said in Matthew that all the law and the prophets hang on love for God and one's neighbour. Or James' (Jam 2:8 If ye fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well.) or Paul's (Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. )

Now that the GOAL or PURPOSE of the law have been achieved (except in your case where the law is yet to achieve its purpose), is there still need for adherence? My brother you need loooove in your life o! the lack of love is the reason you are tithing according to the law.

Image123: @Gosh
1Ti 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
If you don't understand the law, don't insult it, its a rule of thumb you guys ought to have in mind. There were folks who did not understand the law in Paul's time who swerved. The swerved from the law! That's almost a virtue to you folks. When one swerves from the law(especially its purpose of love, good conscience and faith), you collide with vain jangling. You continue to stumble.
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Pro 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

[size=18pt]i could go on in a praise of the law but wouldn't.[/size] The early christians respected the law as the Word of God. It was their scriptures. They all commended it, it's then unfortunate how you out of context decide to deride the law and condemn it.
Hear James on the law, he thought the law was perfect.
Jam 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Hear David, a man after God's heart.
Psa 119:128 Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.

Irrelevant to the discussion. You spent more time praising the law than showing the relevance to Christians

Image123: @zikky
It's called HYPOCRISY. you can't claim to throw away the law and still be encouraging faith, a weighty part of the law.
Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
You are swallowing the camel of the law(faith), and straining at the gnat of the law(tithe).

Oh yes i can! while faith is a weighty part of the law, my faith is not driven by the requirement of the law. Why is it so difficult for you to understand?

Image123: @zikky
duh, people were giving tithes before and after the law. Tithing is not limited to the law.

We know people rendered a tenth of 'something' before the law. That is not in dispute. What i don't agree with is your claim that the act of rendering a tenth of your income to the church is a requirement of the law.

Image123: @zikky
Thank you. BTW, i said the person.
Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

This goes to reinforce our understanding that it was the levi priests collecting tithe & offerings. no problem.

Image123: @zikky
You lie my friend, you lie. Paul had no issues writing about the law to anybody, jew or gentile. The law was what they knew as scriptures. He often used the law to validate what he said. This is because they respected the law. You are the one having issues with the law, Paul had no such issues, neither did the gentiles or the jews.

How can you say i lied? It would be nice if you can just ensure your computer screen is not lying on it side anytime you are reading my posts. Did i say Paul had issues writing about the law to anybody? NO!, did i say Paul did not use the law to validate his message? NO!, Did i say Paul did not respect the law? NO! so what are you talking about. This is what i said:

Zikkyy: It's very simple, the bible verse is enough proof that Paul (sent to the gentiles) did not require the gentiles to adhere to the mosaic law (tithe inclusive). Paul's behavior among the gentiles was that of one not under the bondage of the mosaic law.

The bolded is the message. focus on it. That's what we are discussing here.

Image123: @zikky
1Cor 9:8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

It is not stated anywhere in the quotes above that gentiles should adhere to the requirement of the mosaic law.

Image123: @zikky
He said the major matters of the law included faith, mercy and judgement. How you can say these were not relevant in Paul's dealings with the gentiles beats my imagination. What then was he dealing with them, ludo?

What constitute the major matters of the law is irrelevant as long as Christians are not required to comply with the requirements of the law.

Image123: @zikky
i said the Bible records people receiving tithes after the law and never condemned them. To this you initially replied by saying "yep". Where does the tribes of Israel enter? You already agreed to my premise. The premise that PEOPLE received tithes after the law and no one condemned them.

The bolded is not in dispute. I did agree that people received tithe after the law and i went further to state that it was the levites that received tithe after the law in accordance with the requirement of the law. I also stated that the people that received tithe after the law (levites - in accordance with the requirement of the law) were also the people receiving tithe when the law in force. there was no need for condemnation because nothing changed. If you say i already agreed to your premise, i want to believe this is your position as well.

Goshen360: As for offering plates, I can't see where the NT church is instructed to pass offering plates around.....I'm sorry to disappoint you in that aspect but I can appoint you as chief accountant by the power invested on me. I think that will do if you are not asking too much sha, lolz......

No offering plate! I am not interested. Make i go apply for Joagbaje church abeg

tip999: I belief He is God, in the flesh.

There will come a time when people like you will begin to worship Melchizedek.

Goshen360: I am beginning to have a re-think to return with home based ministry.

If you need anybody to assist in handling the offering plate or box, i am available

^^^^ Done.

Goshen360: And just in case you have problem with KJV what it means to honour one's parent or disobedient to one's parent because you are so manipulative to the extent that someone having a conversation with you must be prepared in all ways. Here is another translation for you,

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
People will be selfish and love money. They will brag, be arrogant, and use abusive language. They will curse their parents, show no gratitude, have no respect for what is holy,

Okay, just in case you are not satisfied with that scripture and from the mouth of 2 or 3, every truth shall be established. Let me help you with another scripture so you know that a Christian honouring his/parent is NOT doing so because it is according to the law.

New Living Translation (©2007)
[size=20pt]For the law was not intended for people who do what is right[/size]. It is for people who are lawless and rebellious, who are ungodly and sinful, who consider nothing sacred and defile what is holy, who kill their father or mother or commit other murders. - I Timothy 1:9

And this scripture,

New Living Translation (©2007)
They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents. - Romans 1:30

Please tell them

Goshen360: Joagbaje! Joagbaje!! Joagbaje!!! How many times did I call your name?

Even if you call his name a thousand times, the man will not hear you o! You need to first crack the soundproof material stuck in his ears (by Oyaks himself) before the man will hear you

truthislight: Befor the law was giving to moss all other nations had the law of not to murder and children in other nations listen to their parent.

Can you show me other nations that payed a compulsory 10%(tith) to their priest as a symbol of a universal moral code that has no origin from mosaic law and as such must continue?

Good question. But i think it is too advance for Jogbaje so don't expect an answer.

Image123: @zikky
The issue is that you can't claim to throw away the law and still be encouraging faith, a weighty part of the law.

why not? oya teach me na let's hear your sermon.

Image123: @zikky
Commiting murder and honouring parents are part of the 10 commandments, an integral part of the law.

If it was part of the law nkor? Peeps were commiting murder before and after the law and they had guiding rules, so why do i need to adhere to the mosaic law?

Image123: @zikky
Don't you understand that churches do not tithe today according to the law? Don't you know and say that tithing according the law MUST BE to the house of Levi? My church has no Levite, but we give tithes. Why do you want to force us under the law when you yourselves do not want to be under the law?

I don't understand you o! first you say you adhere to the weightier matters of the law. are you now saying you don't adhere to the minor or lighter matters of the law?

Image123: @zikky
are you joking here, or deliberately reading me selectively? The weighthier matters of the law are faith, mercy and judgement.

if the weightier matters of the law are faith, mercy and judgement nkor? it does not change anything. the law is not for Christians, simple.

Image123: @zikky
By the grace of God, i still adhere to the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith.

yes na, that's why you are a hypocritical pharisee

Image123: @zikky
it seems you've lost the plot in your bid to fight the word of God.

don't deceive yourself jor who is fighting the word of God? my fight is against the 'word of image123' which is in direct contradiction to the word of God

Image123: @zikky
call me names, i am not ashamed of the Word of God.

I don't expect you will be ashamed of the word of God, but you should be ashamed of yourself

Image123: @zikky
the pharisees and scribes of Jesus' time gave tithes and omitted the weightier matters of the law. You seem not to do any of them.

Na by force? or i look like a pharisee abi?

Image123: @zikky
i don't understand how this verse has anything to do with tithes. Please put yourself in my shoes, try and imagine if someone came up and used this verse to encourage tithes.

More strong meat for you how can you understand. am posting the quote one more time please read the very well o!

1 Corinthians 9:20-21 (KJV)
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

It's very simple, the bible verse is enough proof that Paul (sent to the gentiles) did not require the gentiles to adhere to the mosaic law (tithe inclusive). Paul's behavior among the gentiles was that of one not under the bondage of the mosaic law. The weightier and minor matters of the mosaic law were not relevant in his dealings with the gentiles, only the law of Christ was relevant.

Image123: @zikky
Who collects offerings? The same person who collects offerings collects tithes.

I know you are sheep, but i can see your pastor have been abusing your 'sheepish' approach to bible study to his benefit. Where is it stated in the bible that the man collecting offering also collects tithe? quote from the old testament is allowed

Image123: @zikky
Are you serious at all or just been frivolous and blinded as usual when tithe issues come up? Were Paul and Barnabas gentiles?
It's not my intent or motive to 'pieces' your posts, but you sometimes leave no choice, as this unimportant nonsenses would be overlooked as truth by many and overtime if left unattended.

Lol! so you honestly believe you attended to my post with the comment above? how? by asking if Paul & Barnabas were gentiles? lol! anyways if you must know Paul & Barnabas as 'pastor' equivalent did not receive tithe, so there was no need to complain. or do you have evidence to show that Paul received tithe? who paid the tithe?

Image123: @zikky
i don't understand. Are you tithing? Are you guys tithing and complaining, i don't understand this new insight you are giving us ooo?

How can you understand? My post was a response to your comment below:

Image123: @zikky
The moral lesson is that tithe was received after the law and nobody complained about tithes except you folks trying to force your dislike into the Bible.

I forgot you have milk teeth this meat is too tough for you. To help you i will chew it on your behalf and hand over for you to swallow.

The people tithing when the law was in force were also the same people tithing after the law in "accordance with the requirement of the law". no other person tithed after the law, that's why you don't see anybody complaining in the bible.

Image123: @zikky
What question again? i said the Bible records people receiving tithes after the law and never condemned them. to this you said "Yep" and the excuses.

I don't understand why you have difficulty defending your position. Is 'yep' one of the twelve tribe of Israel? please answer the question; Image123, who received tithe after the law? it's a very simple question requiring a very simple answer. abeg answer before i vex if you cannot explain your comments, please stop posting here

Joagbaje: Let me ask you two questions .

Honoring your father was a law right? Is it done away in the new testament ?

Thou shall not commit murder was a Jewish law, is it done away in the new testament?

You think this makes you look smart abi? i am sorry to inform you that we are not impressed You guys just deliberately refused to understand what the issue is. It is not an issue of committing murder or honoring your father. A Christian 'honoring' his father is not doing it because it is written in the mosaic law that he should. This is the issue with tithe; you don't find anybody tithing to the Levite outside of the law, you don't find tithe issued as a command from God outside of the law. If you must teach tithe or if peeps must pay tithe, it should not be based on the requirement of the mosaic law, simple. There is nothing wrong in giving a tenth of your income to the church afterall every giving is a percentage of something. It just that pastors cannot justify the call to tithe (fixed percentage giving) without reference to the mosaic law, and that should tell you there something wrong with the tithe sermon.

It's so difficult justifying your tithing scheme without the law, to the extent image123 decided to take up Jewish citizenship now image123 is an 'hypocritical pharisee'

chukwudi44: A christian can either be rich or poor and yet remains a genuine xtian.That a xtian is poor does not always mean he is not genuine.

True talk. Being rich is not an indicator that one has been accepted by God.

Goshen360: NOT all Christians are rich and NOT all Christians will be rich.

This is one truth these peeps will never accept. It is not possible to have a society where everyone is rich. That's why Christ said there will always be poor among the loaded. That's why Christ and the Apostles preached charity.