₦airaland Forum

italo: I was beginning to wonder why if I was the only one who noticed the level of st***dity. It's incredible.

You want sister plappville to dedicate an all night prayer session to this your comment

plappville: You are still missing what it means to be "born again". Everyone that goes to church is a "born again" without knowing what it means. NA WAOOH!

Actually you are the one having difficulty understanding what i meant when i used the words 'born again'. It has nothing to do with church.

plappville: Show me bros....

You are still on this matter for your mind now you go dey tell yourself say "i don put am for tight corner, let me see how he gets out of this one"

plappville: Show me where i said i want the church to put a stop to xmas.

you have to rephrase if you want an answer to your question. I cannot answer this one o! This na false accusation. Besides what you ask for will be too complex for you to understand

^^^^Lol!

plappville: I have gone through it, It was a quote as you say.
I did not in anyway try to put a stop to Xmas. You that have comprehension, how did you come up with this conclusion? does the thread says i am trying to put a stop to xmas? did you go through it at all? I did not tell the chruch not to continue with thier celebration, i only told them i will not partake in the xmas program.

You are still missing what it means to be "born again". Everyone that goes to church is a "born again" without knowing what it means. NA WAOOH!
Do more study on it bro...

More damage control you just want me to say something sha. All that is required is for you to say 'thank you zikkyy' (for being so nice ).

on a lighter note now

plappville: Did Christ toilet or not?

plappville my sister, na wa for you o! how can say a thing like this? was it in anger? I no fit answer this kind of question o! Anyways i just want you to know that it's not recorded in the bible, so how come you doing it today? Your 'toileting' is paganism at it's highest/peak

plappville, if i end in hellfire because of my comments around here, you will be held responsible i will ensure i don't go down alone

plappville: Have you done damage control by reading the font size? How can God all knowing forget to include something?

oh my plappville, your case is worse than i imagined! even after correcting you and referring you to the author of that statement, you are still pointing figures in my direction do i need to spoon-feed you? for the last time please see the author of that comment below i was just quoting him in my response to him. If you come back with any false accusations again, i will make sure you celebrate the coming xmas

truthislight: are christians not suppose to be exclusively follows of christ?

Why then did you bring in what the scriptures did not command?

Are you saying that christians needed it but God forgot to include it and not even a record of it is mention in the scriptures?

It's on page 4 (i think), posted 11.32p.m Oct 09. Ordinarily i believe any clown should be able to 'navigate' his/her way to page 4 but you are giving me doubts now

plappville: Watch urself, when using the word "born again next time.

You hate me this much? just because am opposing your bid to put a stop to xmas celebration It's a good thing you are not the custodian of the word 'born again', people like you will only give it out to friends & supporters

plappville: What i am saying is that There is no command from man binding Christian to use toilet like there is a command for Xmas.

You know that xmas was a forged thing, but toilet has no link with this but you brough up the issue. Did Christ toilet or not? Did Christ do Xmas or not?

This na damage control but am now born again and have a policy to be a gentleman here on NL. Am letting you get way with it. You can thank me some other time

plappville: What are you talking about? what has toilet got to do with this? Do you mean going to toilet is breaking Gods law then all righteous figures fall in ur trap.

Now you see why italo's comment make sense You did not consider the impact of toilet when you went said; "No man commanded toilet as a binding, just Like Xmas and other Paganism feast." consider the words in red. if you have difficulty understanding other peeps post, you should be able to understand your own na no be me elevate toilet to same status as xmas o!

italo: Hurray! The dunce is back!

@plappville, consider yourself lucky! i decided to tone down my response to your post after reading italo's post above

plappville: Dont sound RIDICULOUS !! No man commanded toilet as a binding, ...........

Okay na Don't go to the toilet. Just stay away from the toilet for one week and let see what happens

Enigma: Very funny. Do you know of Charles Spurgeon? Quite a "revered" evangelical preacher; he used to smoke a cigar (or pipe; can't remember); anyway when some other Christians frowned at it, he told them he was "smoking to the glory of God".

italo: But most of what you are telling me cannot be found in the Bible so you are also engaged in this PAGANISM.

The reason i decided to participate in this discussion. I observed that some people decide what is sin or pagan and what is of God by relying on personal sentiments and what their organization/church must have told them (which also could be biased based on sentiments). So if it suit them to classify a behavior as pagan or sinful then it is, and if its in their favor to classify a behavior as being correct/right, they do that. The bible did not detail what we must do when we wake up every morning up till the when we go to bed at night. There is no standard behavioral/activity program. A large % of the things we do usually a response to the ever changing environment, and it vary from one person to the other. We have the bible as a reference to assist/guide us in our everyday living. It makes no sense for somebody to come here and say because it's not in the bible therefore it's a sin, and at the same time agree that some other behaviors or activities (in that same category) is acceptable to God simply because it suits you or because you also participate in that other activity. What is sin and what is not should not be based on sentiment.

truthislight: that is parental consent.

You've not answered my question, but am going to let it go in the interest of peace

truthislight: then you are not a follower of christ.

Cus the bible said that followers of christ should do all things for God's glory and not you to do what you like to your own glory.

are you serious? you mean you go to the toilet for God's glory abi? this man don't make me say things i should not be saying this morning

ijawkid: The real issue here is pleasing Jesus ahead of our own pleasure....

You could ask yourself:::

What would the apostles have done??how would the 1st century christians have viewed xmas??
Ofcus they didn't celebrate xmas...

Infact those christians who were Jews left all the jewish celebrations that went away with the death of Jesus....

Many even left the sabbath observance..

Circumcision also they forfeited.....

Christians can do better by abandoning anything that has nothing to do with Jesus...

We are followers of Christ,not followers of our pleasure or some religious leaders who pick out pagan rites all in the name of pleasing God.....

The apostles were too busy to consider such celebrations. You want to compare them to modern day pimping pastors? The early Christians could have been worse if given the opportunity. You forgot they were getting drunk anytime they come together to eat (some were eating alone self). If the apostles had allowed them to celebrate (xmas style), those guys would have gone gaga. If not for the hard work of the apostles, Christianity would not have gone beyond the first century. Those guys try sha, they built a good foundation.

ijawkid: We are followers of Christ,not followers of our pleasure or some religious leaders who pick out pagan rites all in the name of pleasing God.....

Now the truth is it will be great if you take your time to find out about the christmas tree,santa claus,the exchange of gifts etc that is associated with the xmas....you'll be surprised @ what you'll find.....

All the yeye pagan things that was found in saturlania is still the same things found in xmas.......

am not sure it's everything found in saturlania. You can say the celebration been corrupted, yes that's true but xmas is not completely bad there is something good about it. The idea of a feast is not bad, because peeps must chop. God's people have been feasting for a long time. The idea of sharing and giving is not bad either. That would be pleasing to Jesus. Maybe it can still be salvaged but don't think that will happen.

ijawkid: Asians love to celebrate xmas,but they don't even believe in Jesus....xmas has now turned out to be a secular holiday for many.....

The intent of the xmas has been watered down because in the 1st place Christ had no part in it...

So my bro you can avoid xmas......

But its up to you......

I disagree with the bold i need the holiday jor. Thank God we don't have people like you in Government

italo: So what is the Christian way of handling marriage?

Am waiting for truthislight to respond to a similar question. The man is yet to surface. I hope he will not pop up here after i have gone to bed. That's what he did yesterday and had the floor to himself

ijawkid: Oh and as regards marraige,why should I adopt or attend a maRraige that a sango priest is officiating??

Then I'll be mixing up with paganism......

A christian who's got good bible foundation ofcus won't adopt a marraige pattern that has got the saturlania spirit behind it.......

That's why I say one who is really a bible student should know how to make the right decisions as regards festivities and rites.......

Finally! If you had adopted this approach we won't be arguing. I like the bolded, and that's why i don't see anything wrong with the concept of anniversary (based on biblical teachings). The idea was hijacked and the actual practice did not align with biblical teachings; the reason i agree with you that xmas as practiced by the Saturn worshipers (including participating Christians) was of pagan nature.

ijawkid: And if u notice today many persons are even adopting the worlds pattern of handling marraige.... christians should be meticulous so as not to be fashioned after the world ....:-)...

@bolded, I agree.

ijawkid: And please tell me how u celebrate your christmas??

Was hoping you will ignore this bit. na wa for you you are asking for confidential info i will tell you this much (afterall na me look for trouble );

Well...its nothing special. there is nothing like Christmas rice or chicken (i do that as a routine), no santa claus (being resident in Nigeria, it will be at your peril to have Santa sneak into your house), or any of those stuff you mentioned (not sure have seen any of them before, except the Christmas tree). Because i receive cards, i sometimes have them on display. I don't reject hampers either (that one is rare event these days thanks to the harsh economic condition ). I like Christmas holidays because it provides the opportunity for a quite time with my family (same with any other national holiday). a vacation is not a bad idea if i can get extended time out. I hope with this am off your list of saturnalia celebrants

ijawkid: And for your info the pope was the one who stamped december 25th as the xmas date and that's what all professed christians catholics and non-catholics are commemorating till date....

Well.... he was the boss at the time. I still don't have issues with the concept; it just sad that it was hijacked.

ijawkid: There isn't any christian date....

Okay.

ijawkid: Leave the xmas alone....it doesn't add any thing to christianity rather it has brought shame and reproach upon Jesus.......

Is this why you believe xmas is pagan? because the concept was poorly implemented? if the issue is with the implementation, i will agree with you.

ijawkid: ........you guys have submerged Jesus into the saturnalia celebration....

which one be 'you guys' na? i gat this feeling that i have been added to your list of Saturn worshipers i don't know how you arrive at such conclusion without first finding out how i celebrate my xmas

ijawkid: ....our master aint no pagan freak....

Lol! okay. i agree with you.

ijawkid: If the pope back then did not ratify dec 25th(snatched from pagans) as the birthday of Jesus and then instituted the festivity called christmas,would you be doing christmas today??please tell me......

I will tell you. you know i don't avoid questions

Yes it's possible i will still be celebrating Christmas. I don't need the pope to tell me what to or not to do. I can read the bible. Also consider this; what if i decide on my own to celebrate Christ birth on specific date every year by dedicating that day to giving thanks to God. You know, an all day event. would that be pagan? and if yes, why? please tell me...

ijawkid: and when you mean trado marraige what exactly are you trying to arrive at??

It's not a trap. You guys came up with the theory that if a practice is not recorded in the bible, it's a sin (even when the bible itself did not say that). I just needed to understand your basis for classifying non-biblical practices. Even though i don't share your approach to determining what is pagan and what is of God, i believe there should be consistency in approach (no element of bias or sentiment). I believe you can answer my question now

ijawkid: Is marraige a pagan celebration??

what if the wedding was performed by a sango high priest? What if a born again saturn worshiper decides to celebrate his marriage the saturnalia way?

ijawkid: Let us face pagan festivities....marraige is not one of it....stay focused on the topic.....

@bolded.....are you saying marriage irrespective of the form it is celebrated (whether performed at Okija shrine, muslim wedding, Hindu wedding e.t.c) is not pagan?

ijawkid: When the isrealites offered up burnt offerings to Yahweh it was a straight instruction from Yahweh to them...

All the festivals and commemorations the isrealites did were lucid commands from Yahweh himself....

Sabbath
Festival of unfermented cakes
Passover celebration
Festival of pentecost...
Etc...

All were written down commands for the isrealites....

Don't u dare compare yourself with the Jews....the Jews never snatched any pagan holiday to please Yahweh with it...ofcus u know what happened whenever they did that..Yahwehs anger blazes on them....
Yahweh warned them not to near the baal worshippers talk less of snatching a date dedicated to baal,to worship Yahweh..

Don't change the subject. You accused xmas celebrants of organizing a feast that appears to be a replica of saturlania, all i did was show that being a replica is not an issue. you avoided that and when on to prove that burnt offering was command (as if we are arguing that burnt offering is not a command) .

I still don't understand your case with xmas. You stated that it is not in the bible and therefore a sin (or pagan practice). If that's the case i requested for your thoughts on some other non-biblical practices like African traditional marriage rites, you fired blank You also stated that you have issues with the date being same day as some other pagan feast, which is fine. I have asked for what you consider a 'more' Christian date, you ignored that one as well. Am beginning to think you have personal issues with the chaps that came up with the idea of celebrating xmas

ijawkid: the date is the issue because that date was adopted from pagans who celebrated the birthday of there God.....have u heard of the festivity called ""SATURNALIA""??

An exact replica of saturlania is the christmas you celebrate....

Now you are accusing me of worshiping Saturn na wa o! just because i decided to celebrate on December 25th. So peeps born on December 25th are Saturnalia children abi? BTW what's this talk about replica? When the Jews were rendering burnt offering to the Almighty, some other peeps were also rendering their own burnt offering to Baal. Is that not a replica Hope you've not forgotten the challenge between Elijah and the prophets of Baal, did you observe any difference between the offerings or mode of preparation?

ijawkid: the date is the issue because that date was adopted from pagans who celebrated the birthday of there God....

Okay, do you prefer we move it to mid-year when the sango worshipers celebrate or earlier to coincide with the feast for Ra, the sun god am sure there is a pagan party in-progress at any point in time. If you are not happy with my proposal, kindly suggest a 'Christian date'

ijawkid: Christmas has nothing to do with Jesus...

Who told you?

plappville: To the bolded!!

Shocked? That was my reaction as well when i read it You need to talk to your brother trusthislight. am just quoting him

plappville: Can you show me where Jesus says that by celebrating His birthday is a sign of following Him?

Sure. as soon as you show me where Jesus says that we are 'not' following him when we will celebrate him.

truthislight: we are talking about a form of worship here!

Not just using something.

You are not talking about the form of worship sir, you are more interested in the source.

truthislight: Who gave you the example you are following?

Nobody. I adopted my own approach. I just ensured it's not against biblical teachings. Thats all.

truthislight: There are two birth days that are mentioned in the bible and the celebrants were devil woshipers and they both beheaded innocent people on this birth days.

And infact one of them beheaded a prophate of Yahweh in the person of John the baptist.

So what's the message? that only bad people celebrate birthdays? or that it is wrong to behead people on birthdays? is that how you interpret your bible

Don't forget that in the first birthday, the chaps were not innocent and at that same birthday, a life was spared. Also remember that a life (barabas) was spared during passover celebration and lives were lost as well. You think that makes the feast pagan?

truthislight: Infact the birth date of christ is not mention in the bible, is this an error or an omission on God's part? No.
It is deliberately omitted.

The bible did not mention the birth date of anybody including the devil worshipers that celebrated their birthdays so what do you have to say?

truthislight: are christians not suppose to be exclusively follows of christ?

..and by celebrating Christ, who do you think am following?

truthislight: Why then did you bring in what the scriptures did not command?

Did the scripture command that i should not celebrate anniversaries? I don't think so.

truthislight: Are you saying that christians needed it but God forgot to include it and not even a record of it is mention in the scriptures?

Am not saying "that Christians needed it but God forgot to include it". It's not compulsory. am saying you don't consider it a sin simply because it's not recorded in the bible. Its a sin if the act is not in line with how God want us to live as Christians.

I believe you are African, so consider the African traditional marriage rite; do you think it's a sin for Christians to perform traditional marriage rites? and also kindly detail the procedure for Christians marriages as mandated by the bible. Hope you will respond.

ijawkid: Mind u I don't celebrate any day.....

You celebrate december 25th....kindly tell me how it came....

I don't understand the obsession with date here. It could have been any day. It could have been October 1, or May 29, and still will not change anything. I don't celebrate December 25th.

ijawkid: Was it a celebration the apostles did that has a corresponding date with our calendar or was it a borrowed date straight from the realms of paganism.....??

....and i have done my best to show you that the calender you rely on today is not from the apostles.

ijawkid: How did you arrive @ celebrating the birth of Jesus on the 25th of december...

Was is it an arbitrary choice you made or you are just following the instiagtors of that date??

It's a national holiday. i guess i settled for the day every other person is having theirs. The more the merrier

ijawkid: All this to defend christmas...

Those are days of the week.....

I see you are having difficulty understanding my posts. I know they are days of the week and that was part of the message.

ijawkid: And please expanciate on dec 25th......

Please.......

What do you want me to say?

ijawkid: The Jews had a calander with days and months in it........

The problem here is adopting a pagan date,month and rites to praise Jesus who hates paganism with all his strength....

Yes the Jews had a calender with days and months. is that what you use today? or you are telling me the months January to December were named after angels? If December 25th is a pagan date, what dates are Christian dates?

ijawkid: Why should a celebration that is suppose to be attached to Jesus our Lord not be found in the bible??why??

Why should it be pagans who should lead the way??why??

If christmas is not found in the bible why should a bible trained christian sought for ways to instigate the celebration....and from a pagan source for that matter..

You are not reading my posts. It doesn't have to be in the bible to be right. Not every act you perform today can be found in the bible. The bible should be seen as a guide against which we benchmark our actions. It's wrong if the action is contrary to biblical teachings and not because it's not in the bible. All you need to do is show Christ or the Apostles teaches or preach against the celebration of birthdays or the celebration of Christ birth or something.

ijawkid: What has santa claus got to do with Jesus??

What exactly is the role of santa claus in Christmas celebrations? that will help in answering your question.

ijawkid: What has december 25th got to do with our Lord??

ijawkid: And this has been going on for centuries....and till date many christians like you and italo try to defend it....

You still don't know what am defending cos you re not reading my posts.

ijawkid: Why must they convert that day that was for okija juju to worship God in the heavens??

How would God accept that kinda worship??

I think many Christians are taking Yahweh and his son as fools......many think they can just adopt pagan dates all in the name of praising God and think God accepts there worship.....

Is there a date on the calender that is not of pagan origin? even the day your mama gave birth to you was named after something of pagan origin;

Origin of Names of Days

Sunday - ME sun(nen)day, OE sunnandaeg, translation of Latin dies Solis, "Day of the Sun"
Monday - ME mone(n)day, OE mondaeg, translation of Latin Lunae dies, "Day of the Moon"
Tuesday - ME tewesday, OE tiwesdaeg, OHG ziestac, Day of the war god Tiw, translation of the Latin dies Martis, "Day of Mars"
Wednesday - ME Wednesdai, OE wednesdaeg, mutated version of Wodnesdaeg, Woden's day, compare with Dutch Woensdag, Danish onsdag, translation of Latin Mercuru dies, Day of Mercury
Thursday - ME OE Thursdaeg from Norse Thursdagr, "Thor's day", Germanic translation of Latin dies Jovis.
Friday - ME OE Frigedaeg, "Freya's day"
Saturday - ME Saturdai, OE Saternesdaeg, partial translation of Latin Saturni dies, "Saturn's day

ijawkid: Did the apostles celebrate xmas??

Did mary celebrate xmas??

Did any level headed christian ever celebrate the birth of Christ??

Did Jesus commemorate his own birth day??

am sure that there are lot of activities performed by Mary or early Christians not recorded in the bible. This apostles not doing it does not mean it is a sin. We are not meant to strictly adhere to behaviors or way of life as displayed by the early apostles or early Christians, otherwise you would be restricted to riding donkeys. As Christians, there are lots of things we do today not recorded in the bible. That does not make it pagan or sinful. We should look at these behaviors and see if it is contrary to biblical/Christian teachings. It would then be easier for us to determine what should be considered a pagan practice. I don't think celebrating is a sin; how we celebrate is another thing. Naming ceremonies as practiced by some Nigerian Christians today has element of ancient African tradition embedded in it, does that make it pagan? Christians in Nigeria approve of traditional marriage rite in addition to Christian marriage ceremony, do you think this will void the process?

plappville: Are you not seeing @Italo twisting a scripture to make it looks like a command from God?
Its a doctrine in some churches and when you refused to observe it, they see you as disobeying God, That the reason of this thread was created.

It would be wrong to teach Christmas as doctrine. but i don't see Italo twisting scriptures sha.

plappville: First, there nothing like Christmas in the bible. second, there are alot of chapters that says its a man tradition due to its origin. Its a world loving feast.

@bolded......and this makes Christmas pagan? Are you saying anything originated by man is pagan?

plappville: Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Matthew 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. 5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; 6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the

Mark 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

I think the above quotes will only be relevant if Christmas was taught as a means to obtaining salvation or as a commandment from God.

frosbel: The Pastor should know better as a mature believer, if a sister refuses to celebrate what we know is a PAGAN holiday he should be sensitive enough to accommodate her needs.

What makes Christmas a pagan holiday? I think what is important is the intentions of the man celebrating and not the day of the celebration. It's a pagan holiday only if you want it to be one.

^^It's a simple matter. i think you are missing that special ingredient called 'faith'.