₦airaland Forum

Enigma: Nna zikky, I hear you; also, make we no too pull the issue because as for me nowadays, I am far more reluctant to discuss these things in light of the current atmosphere and dynamics of this "Religion" forum.

No wahala. note that am not in support of the G.O scamming the congregation, and i do agree agree that it will be difficult for the average RCG attendee to resist the request of the G.O. But i still see the OP as a request and nothing more.

mkmyers45: The coercion is there....He dosent have to pull a gun to do the work of persuasive conviction...

The baba did not mention names. and i believe peeps were not coerced to attending the event. a good proportion of the congregation are desperate and miracle seeking, so don't blame the G.O for the choices they make.

Enigma: ^^^ I think the "I asked God", "God told me to ask you to partner" etc bits are extremely questionable ---- to put things mildly and kindly.

This is what i read....

1.

musKeeto: When I asked God, He said there will be a new set and it will not be for ten years.

. .and. .
2.

musKeeto: Now, the Lord says to me, the new set of partners will be for only three years. He said after three years, we can review. So, [size=14pt]if[/size] you want to be one of my partners,. . . .

The baba no force anybody na.

musKeeto: At first, I was like
then
then
finally, I just burst out laughing..

I expect one group of Christians will defend this with Bible verses, the other group will attack it with Bible verses. Then there will be the foools that will quote 'touch not my annoin-thieves and give my pro-flirts no ham'..

To be honest, i see nothing wrong in the OP. It's optional, abi?

Pastor AIO: The greater part of the christians look further down the food chain to get own back. They pick on Muslims and the dodgy practices of Muhamad and his ilk. Luckily for them this is a cyber world otherwise we'd be burying christians by the truckload. Many threads get locked because though the initiators of these threads can hide the owner of the website cannot hide. For his protection and self preservation he has to locked up many threads.

LOL!

Joagbaje: Levitical priesthood came with the law. Men die under this priesthood. But Melchizedek order has not record of death. Tithing was instituted under this order. So it started with Melchizedek ,then levitical now we are back to Melchizedek . Because Jesus was made a high priest under the order of Melchizedek . One major thing he was known for was tithe

Mr Joagbaje, this is very wrong teaching.

Joagbaje: But Melchizedek order has not record of death.

You've never taken time to study your comment above, abi? if Melchizedek is not dead it means he is still alive and is an high priest continually, abi? If "Jesus was made a high priest under the order of Melchizedek" (as you wrongly stated), then Jesus is high priest serving alongside Melchizedek. This view cannot be supported with the bible or even Hebrews chapter you quoted from. If you say Melchizedek is no longer in office (dead, maybe), that Jesus took over or continued from where Melchizedek stopped, then i'll say the efforts of the Hebrew writer was all in vain cos this makes the priestly office of the Lord similar to that of the Levites; i.e. a priestly office that relies on inheritance (the passing of baton) from one priest to the other (you are telling us Christ's priesthood belong to an order that requires succession to exist continually. i.e. from Melchizedek to Christ). either way Mr. Joagbaje, you are very wrong. Christ's priesthood is not 'Under' the order of Melchizedek, it is 'similar to' and the similarities were clearly stated in the Hebrews chapter. Mr. Joagbaje, a good number of people relies on you for sound teachings, please don't corrupt your offerings just because if you have to meet some revenue target.

Mr_Anony: Lol, you are welcome.....I just hope you haven't read something else other than intended sha

Nope.

Mr_Anony: Those verses are simple, They describe who we ought to be as Christians and not what we ought to do to acheive some level of Christianity.
Christianity is a character/lifestyle. You simply start by obeying God and then with time, it becomes easier and easier to obey Him. But obey Him you must do. whether it is hard for you or easy you. The beauty is that the Holy Spirit is there to help.

Thank you. I rest my case.....

Edit: Sorry, one last word

Mr_Anony: The beauty is that the Holy Spirit is there to help.

...if you subject/submit/allows.

Mr_Anony: That is why it is called the narrow way..........and few are they that find it

Using the word 'find', you again indicate it's a conscious effort. Maybe you can rephrase to say " and few are they that are 'led' to the narrow way" i no get wahala with that one. Please note am not here to argue, but only to state my point of view. Don't forget to help with my request on those bible verses. Thanks

Mr_Anony: He walks in continuous obedience

Can you help with some explanations on the following bible verse:

2Co 7:1 Having therefore these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Gal 5:25 If we live by the Spirit, by the Spirit let us also walk.

1Th 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
1Th 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.

Take your time. Am not in a hurry. Thanks.

Mr_Anony: I don't quite get what you mean by the question. As far as I know, obedience is both a one time and a continuous thing if God says come, you come. If he says go, you go. If God says come and go 100 times, you must come and go 100 times. 99 is not good enough
......."If you love Me, keep My commandments"

Good. Now you are getting the gist. I like the quote you put up there:

"If you love Me, keep My commandments"

He did not say "i will make you keep my commandment". It is not a 'must' that you keep the commandment. The spirit will not force you to do his will.

Mr_Anony: The question is now; How can you be born-again without obeying Christ? You don't "achieve" obedience to God, you simply obey Him.

Obedience is not a one time event, abi? What happens after the person becomes born again?

Mr_Anony: You don't "achieve" obedience to God, you simply obey Him.

If it was that simple there would be no need for Paul's letters to the various churches urging them to stay on track. In fact a large chunk of the new testament will not be available today if all the requirement was 'simply' to become born again.

Joagbaje: A christian has authority over the devil .as long as he stays in the word of God. You can't go having sex with prostitutes for example and expect thing to work out well .. There will be invasion .

The reason why i asked if the lady in your illustration was the wife or prostitute. So what if the lady is the wife? will there be invasion or infection with demon?

Joagbaje: If a man believes in Jesus Christ as lord and confess him openly ,he is born of God, I didn't use the word posses for a christian. A christian either spirit filled or not cannot not be possessed by the devil. He is Gods possession . But it is possible for demons to inhabit a christian in his body. It is possible to cast out a demon out of a christian. It is even possible to cast out a demon out of a pastor who even minister to others . The question now is how can a demon gain acces to a christian.

That's what the bible says. Can you vouch for everyone that says "i believe, i believe"? Only the one that searches the heart determines those that are saved/born again. It is not for you to decide, you can only assume the 'Christian' is born of God, you can only assume that the pastor is born of God.

Delafruita: have you given thought to the fact that judas was only doing his part in fulfilling the destiny of yoshua and that without judas you wont have the salvation you cherish?

It could have been some other person.

Delafruita: doesnt this show that god can cause some people to do evil i.e. judas just to accomplish his goal?and in such cases,no demons are involved?

consider the bible verse below (special focus on verse 8 );

1Co 2:7 Instead, we speak about God's wisdom in a hidden secret, which God destined before the world began for our glory.
1Co 2:8 None of the rulers of this world understood it, because if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

To say no demon was involved will not be correct. To say God cause Judas to do evil may not be correct.

Mr_Anony: @Zikky, sorry I disagree with you. Spirit-filled is not something we attain, It is a gift the father gives to us immediately we get born-again.
Jesus says in John 14:23: "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

I have never heard of a christian that is half-filled with the Spirit.

Your post above indicates two different events; one is when you get born again you receive a gift, the other is when you continue to obey Christ teaching he will make his home with you. My post relates to the second bit, it's a something you have to achieve. The gift you receive immediately you get born again does not make you a robot directing your every move.

Joagbaje: Let me ask you few question? Are you saying if a christian man have sex with a Demonised lady such demon will not gain access to him?

Is the lady in question the wife, girlfriend/prostitute?

Ihedinobi: Those scriptures do not agree with that claim.

I was hoping Jo will come up with new quotes

Ihedinobi: And my point is that it is contrary to the Christian's nature to allow it. A Christian has to be something other than himself to allow it and that's an absurd thing to think, as absurd as it is to think that an apple can be got off a palm tree.

Of course! Being a Christian does not mean you are 'bullet proof'all the time. The way i see it being spirit filled/spirit led is not a one time event, It's a status we all want to attain and it is not automatic (when you believe, you become spirit filled).

Joagbaje: Mr Anony and ihedinobi,
I think you guys should rather do personal researches on this rather than living by assumption. I do cast out devils very often. And mostly from Christians .

Joagbaje: What about afflictions. If a christian wakes up and see marks of cane (whipping) in the body, it's demonic oppression. Many sicknesses are demonic . If you don't cast the demon out they can't be healed.

What of obsession, certain addictions are demonic. Drugs , alcohol, I'm talking about a situation where the person wants to stop it but he can't . It's a demon.

I once minister to a lady nurse who gets drunk often. She said the drinking problem had caused her about four marriages . She had tried to stop , if she stops her body and fist will start to fold . It will take several people to stretch her open. I looked into her eyes and commanded the demon out . She felll. And that was it. From that moment ,the smell of alcohols makes her feel like vomiting.

Jo have you considered the possibility that these so called Christians were already possessed prior to conversion? Look at the possibility that they have not been truly or fully won over. They might appear to be Christians having shown that they believe, but are they truly born again? Maybe the deliverance sessions might help. You've said in some posts that a Christian cannot possess by demon. The post above contradicts that statement. I agree with the statement that Christians can be influenced. I don't agree that they can be possessed (Unless they lose that status).

Joagbaje: She was a christian has the holy ghost.

How can you be sure that she has the holy ghost?

^^ haba! you guys should take it easy with Joagbaje abeg.

Ihedinobi: One more thing that I find pertinent to point out is that being born again is not a "spirit-only" thing. It seems to me that this "it is the spirit that is born again, our souls and bodies are not born again yet" thinking is founded on the philosophy that the human person is a spirit which has a soul and lives in a body.

I am yet to find any Scriptures to base this on.

Maybe Jo can help with the relevant scriptures to support his claim.

Ihedinobi: Then, can he who has the Spirit of the Holy One be plagued by unholy and foul spirits in any sense, whether by possession, oppression or influence or whatever we might call such an interaction? The answer, my brethren and sister, is NO, as many times NO as eternity lasts. It is an impossibility that one who is seated in Christ Jesus in heavenly places far above every principality, power, dominion, might and name that is named should be subject to any kind of demonic influence! It matters not whether they are the equivalent of a day-old child in the House of the Lord or grounded "masters" of the Word, they are NOT, under any condition whatsoever, subject to any power of the devil.

I think you are not reading Jo very well. My understanding of his post is that a christian can be influenced if only he allows it.

Joagbaje: But to be Demonised is to be influenced by a demon.

Joagbaje: So there are 3 categories of demonic activities , POSESSION, OPRESSION ,OBSESSION of demons . A christian can't be possessed because God posess his spirit already.

Joagbaje: Demons can influence a christian from outside ,if he Give room to it. And they can invade his life and body if he give room to it. Wrong thoughts alone if unchecked can open doors for demons to enter a christian and cause him torment ,sickness even death.

Enigma: If no be say na you, enh? If say na our 'errant' brother Joagbaje, enh?

BTW where is Jo hanging out these days? there is nobody to 'mock' around here (afterall na the man talk say i dey mock am ). How can somebody be so wicked, depriving me of the joy (derived) from 'mocking' him? just imagine that *[size=4pt]off to yookoos to find joagbaje.[/size]*

Enigma: PS about the '8' when certain letters or figures {e.g. ; or 8} come before the second part of a bracket ) they turn into something else like the cool/glasses icon etc. Na wa!

took me unaware. Seun need to sort this out

Ihedinobi: hehehehehe you crook you

Zikkyy: ever considered the bible verse below (1 Corinthians 2:7-

Damn! what's wrong with NL i typed 7 - 8

Enigma: ^^^ Thanks bro and everyone on the thread; as someone reading most posts quietly in the background I have to say that i have thoroughly enjoyed the thread and the spirit in which it has been conducted.

It's not free oh can't speak for the others, but send my 10%

5solas: However, the point of my post is that everything that happens is predestined.

From what i read you say, predestination is knowing how things or people turn out; it is not about influencing the events that result in the ultimate outcome. Am i correct?

5solas: We don’t know if we are of the number of the elects or not (before conversion), but we do know He commands us to repent and believe.

and you don't think the bit above (in red) is all about making free-choices?

5solas: It seems contradictory to me that God who chose some persons before He laid the foundation of the world, should also command that the gospel should be preached to all. But both are true.

God chose the Israelite (probably before he laid the foundation of the world).

Rom 9:4 who are Israelis. To them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the Law, the worship, and the promises.
Rom 9:5 To the Israelis belong the patriarchs, and from them, the Messiah descended, who is God over all, the one who is forever blessed. Amen.

The Gentiles were subsequently incorporated into the equation (don't know when that was decided . But Paul tells us that God can also sideline those he has chosen

Rom 11:20 That's right! They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you remain only because of faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid!
Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he certainly will not spare you, either.
Rom 11:22 Consider, then, the kindness and severity of God: his severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness toward you—if you continue receiving his kindness. Otherwise, you too will be cut off.

God chose people; that fine, but they can also be cut-off. abi?

5solas: Acts 4
24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:
25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?
26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

Act 4:27 For in this city both Herod and Pontius Pilate actually met together with the gentiles and the people of Israel to oppose your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed,
Act 4:28 to carry out everything that your hand and will had predetermined to take place.

Edit: I believe you did read the last post by truthislight, Act 4:28 is all about events (i.e what will happen). Anyways. . .

ever considered the bible verse below (1 Corinthians 2:7-

1Co 2:7 Instead, we speak about God's wisdom in a hidden secret, which God destined before the world began for our glory.
1Co 2:8 None of the rulers of this world understood it, because if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

How can Satan and his crew stop the plan from happening if it was predestined to happen; when God can just will Judas to sell out his oga; when God can easily will the people to choose Barabas and not Christ when Pilate made the offer; When God can easily harden the heart of Pilate. What's the role of Satan in the whole event (in God's plan)? Maybe it was Satan inciting the people to choose Barabas and request that Christ be crucified. How was it Judas became the chosen one (to betray Jesus)? could it be because he already possess the trait/character of the person for the Job? (always dipping his hands in the money bag). Could Satan been able to convince Peter? No doubt God already knew how it will play out; did he direct it?

Maybe you don't know everything about this predestination or how it operates. Think about it

5solas: 'Will' is not equal to 'Freewill'.

Can you exercise 'will' if you don't have freedom to use it? think about it. It's not possible to have a 'will' if you can not exercise it. That's the way i see it.

Joh 1:12 However, to all who received him, those believing in his name, he gave authority to become God's children,
Joh 1:13 who were born, not merely in a genetic sense, nor from lust, nor from man's desire, but from the will of God.

You highlighted verse 13 without considering verse 12. We do not determine our salvation; that's for God to decide, but we do have to receive /believe.

5solas: Lol. He wasn’t forced. He was made willing

What's the difference?

5solas: Phil.2: 13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Php 2:12 And so, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not only when I was with you but even more now that I am absent, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God who is producing in you both the desire and the ability to do what pleases him.

Don't get carried away by Apostle Paul's writing style. Can we really do much without the Almighty? No. But it does not take away our responsibility to 'work out our salvation'. The above is not telling us that it is the Almighty that is working out our salvation (on our behalf).

5solas: Is it a third party doing this post for you? And yet you could not have done this post if God willed otherwise.

But he did not will otherwise. It is not about what God can do, it is about what he has done; allowing us to make our choices without interference.

5solas: John 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

You assume every quote that has to do with God's authority suits your purpose. Do you really think anybody can have authority over the son of God, unless allowed by the Almighty? This one is a special case oh.

5solas: Can man make choices? Yes!Does he have a will?Yes. Does he have freewill? No.

How can man make choices without freewill? How can man be said to possess a will if there is no freedom attached to it? How can you make choices if you cannot decide for yourself? If your choices are determine by a third party, then you are simply acting out his instructions.

5solas: Man can make choices , and as far as he is concerned they are free, but he cannot act other than God wills and foreknows.

Why should one rely on an interpretation that is not consistent with behaviors/actions and events we find in the bible? God can force his will on man (e.g. pharaoh), no issues with that, but it is not the norm. From the time of Adam, we see that God gave man the opportunity to decide. Abraham did not act out God's will when he agreed to sacrifice Isaac, Job's was not influenced, Jonah exercised his options (even though he was later forced to do it God's way ) e.t.c

5solas: Paul was converted without his seeking God,

It was the other way round for Cornelius and Jailer in Acts 16. Just as men who did not seek God finds him so also will men that seek him. It was the same Paul that told his jailer that he just need to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. If the Jailer is not exercising his freewill, whose will is it then?

5solas: But as we know not before our conversion if we are chosen or not, we should cry out to Him for our salvation because to Him it belongs.

This is contradicting everything you've said before now. If we do not have the ability to make such decisions, how can one cry out to God?