coogar:

where?

you actually took me serious ! Everywhere but here and ''women are their own worst enemy thread''..... you're wasting your time here

coogar:

how can that be the best contribution so far?
fellis took too much emphasis on the word "submit" and went straight to the oxford dictionary. the fact is these laws were written in a different language and a lot of meanings get lost in translation. "submission" in that context is not "forced" otherwise it would be a blatant "obedience".........doing something whether you are happy or unhappy is just obedience. submission in the biblical sense is what you are happy at doing...if you are not happy, then it's not submission.

coogar

Thank you so much for your posts on this section. For the first time in my life I feel that submission is not only something I can make peace with but also enjoy.

My mum was scared I would never marry, I was like I don't mind. I said I was not going to be submissive, 'cause it wasn't me, I JUST couldn't do it. It felt like mental and physical slavery.

Now I feel like, it could really be nice to be submissive because you have explained it very well and I understand that submission is something I choose and not something that is forced upon me. It's me, the woman, who can make submission the greatest gift I can give to the man I love and respect. It's not just a s.tupid tradition not making any sense.

The way you see it, is perfectly understandable and even something desirable.

Coogar, I think you have changed my life

This 'context' issue is just an excuse to sugar coat the fact that submission is something that Christianity requires of the woman. Christian woman in earlier times didn't 'choose' to be submissive or decide that submission is a gift they would give their husband if they want to, they just did it because the Bible says so. I wonder how come it is now the modern Christians that understand the Bible better than those ones.
I am cool with Christians following the context explanation coogar gave though. I don't like the way some men oppress women in the name of submission and so if more Christians follow that explanation it would probably lessen the oppressive attitude of such men.

Frankie9ice:

You r wrong lady,....submission in marriage for a woman has no requirement. Just be submissive to him,shikena! Even if he were a womanizer,an alcoholic,a abusive husband,an irresponsible guy etc,....just submit to him

and love in marriage for a man has no requirement. Just love her, shikena! Even if she nags, sleeps around, abusive, irresponsible etc,.... Just love her!

funny thread & complete waste of time, thank God, i didnt marry one of those so called liberal women, feminist, she would ve been long gone. If u cant submit 2 my authority, whether u like it or not, u r nt fit 2 be my wife, no wonder d whole place is littered with divorcees, even NL here, arant nonsense. My wife is a educated & knowlegdeable wit wisdom, she contributes her quota 2 d success of d home, if i m nt please wit anything my wife is doing & she doent stop, thats d end of d marriage.

tatiana009:

Lmao, yes o. Once we learn to act like that we will all buy plenty jewelry and live happily ever after. Such simple mindedness!

Suprise! Life is really as simple as that.
There's Yoruba song: "Ewo gele yeye lori aji gbo t'oko...". It means "Behold the beautiful headgear on the obedient (submissive) wife".

coogar:

the bible was originally written in aramaic before getting translated to english language. most of these words are not the direct translations - just the closest available in english language.

This is an excuse to con women into being submissive(forced against their will) than cooperate(doing things as family of equal minds). It is clear what submission means is to enslave the female folks and there is no connotation in whatsoever manner that removes that from the translation of it in the bible. Cooperation would rather be a useful word that can replace what you are trying to insinuate with submission. Or else submission has never been used in the way you are driving at all along. Let's call a spade a spade!

all4naija: This is an excuse to con women into being submissive(forced against their will) than cooperate(doing things as family of equal minds). It is clear what submission means to enslave the female folks and there is no connotation in whatsoever manner that removes that from the translation of it in the bible. Cooperation would rather be a useful word that can replace what you are trying to insinuate with submission. Or else submission has never been used in the way you are driving at all along. Let's call a spade a spade!

don't argue against logic.....

submit to your husband like you submit to your Lord.....
now, are christians forced to worship God? is it not free will to worship and serve God? why would submitting to one's husband slavery yet submitting to God isn't seen as slavery? i am beginning to think comprehending simple lines is a challenge to most people.

husbands who use this bible verse to "oppress" their wives are misguided or just taking advantage of that poor wife. the message itself is clear. husbands should love and respect their wives and wives should return the favour by giving their husbands the privilege of "submission". the privilege can only be earned, not forced!

carefreewannabe:
coogar

Thank you so much for your posts on this section. For the first time in my life I feel that submission is not only something I can make peace with but also enjoy.

My mum was scared I would never marry, I was like I don't mind. I said I was not going to be submissive, 'cause it wasn't me, I JUST couldn't do it. It felt like mental and physical slavery.

Now I feel like, it could really be nice to be submissive because you have explained it very well and I understand that submission is something I choose and not something that is forced upon me. It's me, the woman, who can make submission the greatest gift I can give to the man I love and respect. It's not just a s.tupid tradition not making any sense.

The way you see it, is perfectly understandable and even something desirable.
Coogar, I think you have changed my life

thank you!
now get a man that deserves that "gift".......

coogar:

don't argue against logic.....

submit to your husband like you submit to your Lord.....
now, are christians forced to worship God? is it not free will to worship and serve God? why would submitting to one's husband slavery yet submitting to God isn't seen as slavery? i am beginning to think comprehending simple lines is a challenge to most people.

husbands who use this bible verse to "oppress" their wives are misguided or just taking advantage of that poor wife. the message itself is clear. husbands should love and respect their wives and wives should return the favour by giving their husbands the privilege of "submission". the privilege can only be earned, not forced!



thank you!
now get a man that deserves that "gift".......

Hahaha... I couldn't help laughing at your question, on bold. Christians are lured by fears of afterlife to submit or worship the so called Lord so that they be favored or gained access to the over-elusive heaven. Indeed, all religions coerced people to worship based on what they are going to gain from the Lord through indoctrination. There is always this condition attached to it in one way or the other and it is always scary or deceitful. That really makes it to be something actually against one wish to choose under normal condition without any pre-condtion.

You too are very funny to not see the fears attach to worshiping the Lord for access to heaven matter. I can't stop laughing at religionist topsy-turvy excuses!

^ I told him something similar before but he insisted that that was not the case.

There are only two options for women who aren't comfortable submitting. Do not get married or find a man who shares your view and let us be with your heady opinion. Gosh what rebellious generation. In the history of mankind, this generation has recorded the highest rate of divorce and dysfunctional kids. Did you ask yourself why? @fellis life is about right or wrong, good or bad. God gave us a will to chose either. Serving him yields good, not serving him yields bad, it's totally your choice so is it with submission it's ur choice to listen to God or not. Let me educate you bro, GOOD virtues aren't necessarily convenient. It is easier to withold than to give, easier to lie than say the truth, easier to sleep than work, easier to gossip than pray. Good virtues are like valuable natural resources like gold, crude oil e.t.c. You have to straineously dig deep to find them. Good virtues are mostly cultivated under rigorous discipline. Submition isn't different so is loving a woman selflessly inspite any odd. @coogar submission is simply a prescriptive guideline for virtuos women that chooses to adhere or disregard. So all feminist make I hear word abeg, being single isn't a bad idea for u afterall, but don't contaminate the few good ones left. Bloody heady women.

It's like saying because homosexualism is becoming a norm everywhere even being legalised in some climes, then it automatically makes it right whether ethically, logically or morally. For those bandwagons saying times have chaged.

dick hardener: There are only two options for women who aren't comfortable submitting. Do not get married or find a man who shares your view and let us be with your heady opinion. Gosh what rebellious generation. In the history of mankind, this generation has recorded the highest rate of divorce and dysfunctional kids. Did you ask yourself why? @fellis life is about right or wrong, good or bad.

I am not even encouraging women to be rebellious to their husbands. My argument has nothing to do with that. What I am saying is that women should, instead of being subjected or forced to submit, they should work hand in hand with their spouses and base their marriage on mutual love and cooperation, not on being made to loose their decision making choices all in the name of submission. Most times the wife has a better idea of what should be done in a particular situation and most times the husband has a better idea. Cooperation comes into play in such situations and instead of the woman ALWAYS deferring to the man and letting him ALWAYS have the last say, they both sit down and iron whatever issues they disagree on out. Same way the husband does not always have to let his wife have the last say in their decision making processes. If he knows better than her then he should tell his wife in details, why he thinks his opinion is better rather than forcing her to accept that opinion because she is meant to submit. They discuss them and decide what way is sensible. If the woman was to constantly submit to the man, this wouldn't happen. What would happen would be that the wife's choices would be subject to her husband's approval, whether they are better than his or not.
Married couples should work together abeg. Marriage is a partnership. Not slavery.

Submition isn't different so is loving a woman selflessly inspite any odd. So all feminist make I hear word abeg, being single isn't a bad idea for u afterall, but don't contaminate the few good ones left. Bloody heady women.

I don't even support the idea that men must love their wives selflessly in spite of any odds. That is not something that is possible especially if the wife is a particularly badly behaved one. The man would just end up frustrated with constantly having to force himself to show love to a person that makes his life miserable and he would definitely lash out at her one way or another and then he justifies this lashing out with any excuse he sees fit (I am trying to correct her or I am maltreating her because I love her and want her to change lol), when in reality he is doing it because he despises her.
Men are not under any obligation to always love their wives and neither are women under any obligation to always submit to their husbands. Let us try to apply common sense in these issues.

Who has the final say, Jehovah has the final say!!!

dinachi: @all the wanabe feminists, why will you submit to your boss, but not your husband? Why will you submit to your parents but not your husband? Only foolish women argue about submission. Every wise woman understands that submission dosent degrade but it elevates. You stoop to conquer! Any woman who argues about submision to the husband is suffering from the demon of pride, and remember it is pride that kept satan where he is today.Marriage is a CHOICE! If you are too proud and dont want to submit , then dont marry. Remain single and leave married folks out of your satanic wisdom. Dont join the new age movement in destroying one of the greatest institutions that God made. Finally,God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble! Submissiono is a sign of humility.If you are not humble as a woman , then marriage is not for you.If you want to make all your choices without any input, fine and good, just dont marry! You cannot eat your cake and have it. You want to be married, then learn submission , you dont want to submit then dont marry!

And I guess that the wannabe feminists sleep with their boss and love him! stop comparing oranges and apples! can you compare the relationship between a couple and a woman and her boss! with your post, it shows that you don't know what submission means in a marriage. if a woman doesn't submit, check her husband. A loved woman naturally submits. she does everything possible to please her husband. There was a story of a woman that was married to a man who maltreated her. He gave her rules on what to do at each pt and she lived like a zombie. After a while, he divorced her and she married a man who was a gift to her. she did everything to please him; washed his clothes with joy, cooked for him, combined his clothes for work, took lunch to his work place etc. She stumbled on the list her ex-hubby gave her and realized everything she did for her hubby now surpassed all what in that list. Traet your woman right and she would do all to please you.

Adeniyi A.:
some ladies have read wide yet they have shallow knowledge of the concept 'submission', should i call that western brainwash.
what some of our ladies learn from western education is gender equality- which can never be,any earthly principle against laid down divine principle is bound to fail.
did Adam not tell Eve of d forbidden fruit,yet she disobeyed as a result of wanting to be independent.
during decision making,make ur points known wt humility,if ur husband agrees,gud,if nt,same noni

and where in the bible did you see that a man and a woman are not equal?

bjcole: funny thread & complete waste of time, thank God, i didnt marry one of those so called liberal women, feminist, she would ve been long gone. If u cant submit 2 my authority, whether u like it or not, u r nt fit 2 be my wife, no wonder d whole place is littered with divorcees, even NL here, arant nonsense. My wife is a educated & knowlegdeable wit wisdom, she contributes her quota 2 d success of d home, [/bold]if i m nt please wit anything my wife is doing & she doent stop, thats d end of d marriage[/bold].

you must really place a high value on your marriage. Does your wife the same choice?

fellis:

I am not even encouraging women to be rebellious to their husbands. My argument has nothing to do with that. What I am saying is that women should, instead of being subjected or forced to submit, they should work hand in hand with their spouses and base their marriage on mutual love and cooperation, not on being made to loose their decision making choices all in the name of submission. Most times the wife has a better idea of what should be done in a particular situation and most times the husband has a better idea. Cooperation comes into play in such situations and instead of the woman ALWAYS deferring to the man and letting him ALWAYS have the last say, they both sit down and iron whatever issues they disagree on out. Same way the husband does not always have to let his wife have the last say in their decision making processes. If he knows better than her then he should tell his wife in details, why he thinks his opinion is better rather than forcing her to accept that opinion because she is meant to submit. They discuss them and decide what way is sensible. If the woman was to constantly submit to the man, this wouldn't happen. What would happen would be that the wife's choices would be subject to her husband's approval, whether they are better than his or not.
Married couples should work together abeg. Marriage is a partnership. Not slavery.



I don't even support the idea that men must love their wives selflessly in spite of any odds. That is not something that is possible especially if the wife is a particularly badly behaved one. The man would just end up frustrated with constantly having to force himself to show love to a person that makes his life miserable and he would definitely lash out at her one way or another and then he justifies this lashing out with any excuse he sees fit (I am trying to correct her or I am maltreating her because I love her and want her to change lol), when in reality he is doing it because he despises her.
Men are not under any obligation to always love their wives and neither are women under any obligation to always submit to their husbands. Let us try to apply common sense in these issues.

. Excellent fellis,, look at it this way, you are not wrong talking about common sense but God's sense and wisdom isn't common albeit based on ur belief about God u may probably debunk this truth. I am not saying ur claims are not logical but not in compliance to God's word simple and straightforward. The catch here is no one I mean no single person is under compulsion to adhere to this guideline it absolutely boils down to choice. And finally, ask urself this truthfully, has the soceity become saner or insaner? Divorce plummeted or nose dived? Has depression in general sky-rocketed or reduced and buttressing these question every societal functionality or dysfunctionality stems from the home. The Morale of my discussion is CHOICE. Choose what suits u but inculcating ur choice on the few wise is my grouse

bukatyne: And I guess that the wannabe feminists sleep with their boss and love him! stop comparing oranges and apples! can you compare the relationship between a couple and a woman and her boss! with your post, it shows that you don't know what submission means in a marriage. if a woman doesn't submit, check her husband. A loved woman naturally submits. she does everything possible to please her husband. There was a story of a woman that was married to a man who maltreated her. He gave her rules on what to do at each pt and she lived like a zombie. After a while, he divorced her and she married a man who was a gift to her. she did everything to please him; washed his clothes with joy, cooked for him, combined his clothes for work, took lunch to his work place etc. She stumbled on the list her ex-hubby gave her and realized everything she did for her hubby now surpassed all what in that list. Traet your woman right and she would do all to please you.

the bone of contention isn't about treating a woman right, that one is not negotiable. That is a standard set by God agreed on by all right thinking men. The issue here is women outrightly debunking their God laid down standard. It's clear as white and black. To debunk a law is one issue and to err on that same law is another. Spot the difference sweetheart

bukatyne: and where in the bible did you see that a man and a woman are not equal?

. Herein lies the foundation of our new found epidemy. I am not equal to you and you are not equal to me but complementary as husband and wife. This is precisely why God specifically used the word head for the man and helper for the woman. Your efforts to argue my darlyn is Borne out of rebellion. And again as an expert on women I must not fail to tell you this mind blowing jackpot.Besides the Bible, the most rebellious woman on earth can and will submit to a man she is insanely in love with. Now I'm talking about a kind of love that beclouds, inexplainable, deep crazy love. You'll see the woman automatically gives in to submission. My theory here is colour blind, race blind, success blind and does not respect whether you are Celine Dion or Oprah. Thank u.

dick hardener: the bone of contention isn't about treating a woman right, that one is not negotiable. That is a standard set by God agreed on by all right thinking men . The issue here is women outrightly debunking their God laid down standard. It's clear as white and black. To debunk a law is one issue and to err on that same law is another. Spot the difference sweetheart

To hell with the so called standard, and it doesn't look like standard to me anyway. Who told you everybody agrees to it? Please, take the next exit and stop perpetrating enslavement in the 21st century.

For you information, many women are beginning to distant themselves from marriage due to the way this tradition about it are lopsided to their rights.

all4naija: Most cultures have turned women into rags. The most obvious one is this marriage thing where men have to spend and basing all on that to make women look like something bought with a price. That simple reason makes many men to feel they have the right to enslave women. It is time this silly marriage thing have to be stopped with men having such sense but as agreement based on cooperation. Truly, many cultures are biased against women rights. We have seen that in many traditions all along.

What a silly tradition and a primitive culture to go in this regard!

sorry oh, but though u communicated, but not intelligently.

all4naija: To hell with the so called standard, and it doesn't look like standard to me anyway. Who told you everybody agrees to it? Please, take the next exit and stop perpetrating enslavement in the 21st century.

For you information, many women are beginning to distant themselves from marriage due to the way this tradition about it are lopsided to their rights.

like I earlier pointed out u'v got poor communication here. Do u mind if I ask how old u are?

dick hardener: sorry oh, but though u communicated, but not intelligently.

As if it makes you better human being! Blahblahblah...

dick hardener: like I earlier pointed out u'v got poor communication here. Do u mind if I ask how old u are?

Learn to write properly before even saying anything about poor communication skills! Try to express yourself as good as possible.

dick hardener: . Excellent fellis,, look at it this way, you are not wrong talking about common sense but God's sense and wisdom isn't common albeit based on ur belief about God u may probably debunk this truth. I am not saying ur claims are not logical but not in compliance to God's word simple and straightforward. The catch here is no one I mean no single person is under compulsion to adhere to this guideline it absolutely boils down to choice. And finally, ask urself this truthfully, has the soceity become saner or insaner? Divorce plummeted or nose dived? Has depression in general sky-rocketed or reduced and buttressing these question every societal functionality or dysfunctionality stems from the home. The Morale of my discussion is CHOICE. Choose what suits u but inculcating ur choice on the few wise is my grouse

So what you are saying is that Christians should just follow the laws of the Bible without applying any type of common sense to what they are doing?

What is the difference between your way of thinking and that of Boko hram that kill innocent people simply because they believe their God asked them to kill? They just kill because they claim their religion asks them to, they don't apply sense.

What makes your manner of following your faith diffrent from theirs?

fellis:


So what you are saying is that Christians should just follow the laws of the Bible without applying any type of common sense to what they are doing?

What is the difference between your way of thinking and that of Boko hram that kill innocent people simply because they believe their God asked them to kill? They just kill because they claim their religion asks them to, they don't apply sense.

What makes your manner of following your faith diffrent from theirs?

. Boils down to choice again sir. let's not go back and forth bros. If following suit does not appeal to u then ignore it. The beauty of living is u have a WILL. No compulsion. Even the abused women chose to be with the wicked man. It's about choices bros. Simple and plain

all4naija: Learn to write properly before even saying anything about poor communication skills! Try to express yourself as good as possible.

I'd appreciate you let me know what quota portrayed inexpressibility. We learn everyday you know. My notification was pointed at the incoherence associated with ur post.

all4naija: Hahaha... I couldn't help laughing at your question, on bold. Christians are lured by fears of afterlife to submit or worship the so called Lord so that they be favored or gained access to the over-elusive heaven. Indeed, all religions coerced people to worship based on what they are going to gain from the Lord through indoctrination. There is always this condition attached to it in one way or the other and it is always scary or deceitful. That really makes it to be something actually against one wish to choose under normal condition without any pre-condtion.

You too are very funny to not see the fears attach to worshiping the Lord for access to heaven matter. I can't stop laughing at religionist topsy-turvy excuses!

stop embarrassing yourself, negro....
christianity is a choice.... they lay out the choices...join us and cop eternal life, reject us and get a first class ticket to hell. no gun is put to your head to make that decision. how can you then liken this to the oppression women suffer from their overbearing husbands? like i have said, submission is a gift/privilege a woman has chosen to give her husband....a gift the husband must have earned by respecting his wife and loving her. if you still find my explanation ambiguous then i suggest you go lie down for a while and watch some cartoon.

coogar:

stop embarrassing yourself, negro....
christianity is a choice.... they lay out the choices...join us and cop eternal life, reject us and get a first class ticket to hell. no gun is put to your head to make that decision. how can you then liken this to the oppression women suffer from their overbearing husbands? like i have said, submission is a gift/privilege a woman has chosen to give her husband....a gift the husband must have earned by respecting his wife and loving her. if you still find my explanation ambiguous then i suggest you go lie down for a while and watch some cartoon.

. Thank u o coogar.

dick hardener: . Boils down to choice again sir. let's not go back and forth bros. If following suit does not appeal to u then ignore it. The beauty of living is u have a WILL. No compulsion. Even the abused women chose to be with the wicked man. It's about choices bros. Simple and plain

I am not sure I get your point, how should people avoid it altogether?
What I said before was that married couples should cooperate with each other instead of one person always bending to the will of the other but you insisted that the wife must always submit to the husband because the Bible says so.

If it is simply a matter doing it or ignoring it altogether then there would be a lot of divorces because instead of encouraging cooperation in marriages as a way to make things easier, people would just leave marriage alone completely since the very foundation of marriage in the Bible is for the wife to always submit and the husband to love unconditionally.