[quote author=trolling][/quote]
U'r using †ђз wrong term Oga.
Service ain't needed here. But wen u say serve, do u mean †ђз husband shld b a servant? Dis ain't govt o!

@Oyin no vex Abeg , don't let anybody make you display what you won't like ... na wetin Internet do be that o! iru and ogiri ! I wish I can see some people face to face here so we see levels! Aiya!

all4naija: Lol@ tile. It is like man and woman! You too refuse to get it. The idea of the ship is that two captains cannot pilot it insinuate that only the man is in control of every thing, which is not the case with aircraft. Indeed, the first officer is equally as in command as the captain in a plain. This is what a captain of a flight is " to operate the aircraft for the specific flight and flight conditions, but need not be actually manipulating the controls at any given moment" -culled from Wikipedia.

The truth is that you are using this analogy in the real sense to show that captain of a flight should be the sole pilot as it is with a ship. You see you are still wrong, even with the name attach to a captain in an aircraft.

Its a known fact dt in any group (social or institutional), dere has 2 b a head, consciously or unconsciously. So its a choice 2 b a good head, who listens or otherwise.
†ђз problem we men have is DT we sometimes get over-conscious(bossy) of our divine role.
A man has 2 b tact & wise, if not †ђз smart woman will naturally take †ђз role.

oyin50: . Fine, but insulting my mom who suffered with my dad when he was so poor is very painful.

I deeply apologize for any pain I caused.

However, your take on your folks marital situation is highly flawed IMO. I highly doubt it is your mother's submission that's responsible for them enjoying their married life today. It is more likely because they are compatible, responsible and in love. Many men in your dad's position have dumped their submissive wives and moved on to the next young thing the moment they came into money.

Your suggestion that you get to spend your husbands money at will once you submit is simple minded, like someone else said.

And I never said, submission is not needed in marriage. But I will certainly denounce the manner of submission many people (including 50caliber who you are seriously agreeing with) claim women should have.

all4naija: Lol@ title. It is like man and woman! You too refuse to get it. The idea of the ship is that two captains cannot pilot it insinuate that only the man is in control of every thing, which is not the case with aircraft. Indeed, the first officer is equally as in command as the captain in a plane. This is what a captain of a flight is "a person to operate the aircraft for the specific flight and flight conditions, but need not be actually manipulating the controls at any given moment" -culled from Wikipedia.

The truth is that you are using this analogy in the real sense to show that captain of a flight should be the sole pilot as it is with a ship. You see you are still wrong, even with the name attach to a captain in an aircraft.

In a broader sense submissiveness doesn't add anything than to put the other person on a edge of no influence in the family. This control through submission is merely a way to take opportunity and trample on rights of a woman.
Why not let them co-operate than one being submissive?

You are beginning to understand it little by little. The title - Pilot in Command or Captain does not necessarily mean that he is the only one starring the plane, it means he has overall accountability and responsibility for the plane. And that is what it means. And that is what the head of the family means. A big organisation may have 100,000 employees but just one CEO. The CEO is not doing everything by himself, but he is the one accountable to shareholders.

I am not here to debate with you whether women should be slaves, most people are clearly against it. You probably have experienced cases where women have been treated like slaves all in the name of submission, hence your reasoning. But just like the pilot example, the husband need not take every decision, in fact he could even be away from the family for a while, but that does not mean he is not responsible and accountable for the family. My point to you is that equal accountability does not work and you are beginning to agree!

sambussie:

Its a known fact dt in any group (social or institutional), dere has 2 b a head, consciously or unconsciously. So its a choice 2 b a good head, who listens or otherwise.
†ђз problem we men have is DT we sometimes get over-conscious(bossy) of our divine role.
A man has 2 b tact & wise, if not †ђз smart woman will naturally take †ђз role.

Yes! It doesn't mean the follower has to be submissive to the head where the nuance of the family matter lies is that people only see what the flawed analogy really say about the society. Effective family is based on equality. It doesn't mean there is no man or woman because there are some responsibility which exist only for both genders but in the case of submissiveness it not. So it a thing based on idea not what actually solely can not be don't away with by resorting to co-operate as equal responsible people. I hope you will understand the nuances.

Again to the captain issue, you seemed to miss it. It is not about rank as in the captain case that I am on about but the atmosphere and right with both cooperating than being one being submissive as pilots.I repeat, I am not arguing about rank as in hierarchy but to be submissive is to yield to whatever the man say without questioning, which is aged and it doesn't mean it is encompassing. We have seen it is even full of disadvantages than advantages. Orderliness in the society is monitored by the laws - that is the barometer. In the case of the family it is the rights,responsibility and vows attested to by both people during the marriage. They are about equity, justice and equality in taking in the family. That doesn't mean the woman is automatically the father nor the father automatically the mother but it doesn't require her to be submissive in any way but co-operate to the benefit of a better family.

Thankfully, not everyone is a mentally unbalanced, cowardly, crass, half wit who comes completely unglued at the slightest non provocation .

Submission of women means that when your husband wants to do anal sex, don't say no; enjoy yaself

Nashville:

You are beginning to understand it little by little. The title - Pilot in Command or Captain does not necessarily mean that he is the only one starring the plane, it means he has overall accountability and responsibility for the plane. And that is what it means. And that is what the head of the family means. A big organisation may have 100,000 employees but just one CEO. The CEO is not doing everything by himself, but he is the one accountable to shareholders.

I am not here to debate with you whether women should be slaves, most people are clearly against it. You probably have experienced cases where women have been treated like slaves all in the name of submission, hence your reasoning. But just like the pilot example, the husband need not take every decision, in fact he could even be away from the family for a while, but that does not mean he is not responsible and accountable for the family. My point to you is that equal accountability does not work and you are beginning to agree!

Thank you for the head being the man. Is it required of the woman to be submissive because she is a woman for any reason? What difference does it make without the woman being submissive but cooperate?

Leaving the slave thing out,although, the topic can not be complete without it as it is related to human as social animals(with different reactions) and disposition submissiveness is duly unfair ideology striping her of her will.

Now, why should it be the man always in control? Don't tell me God created it that way or it is right.

all4naija: Stop using such flawed analogy of two captains can't pilot a ship. family is made up of the two people who agree to vows of mutual respect, marital responsibilities and their children or who would be born. Family is not like a ship with a captain, it is more like a plane with two pilots. That is my view.

You seem to be championing the course of ignorant women who don't know their role in their quest for equality with men.

I am just laughing at you, I really hope you do get what you see i.e a really stubborn woman who will really put this your belief and theory to the test.

I only pity women who are mislead by your advise, because they will only have themselves to blame by the time they are in their 50s and single or divorced.

Foolish women get carried away by this so called male-
female equality cr*p being pushed by feminists who advise women to be rebellious to their husbands all in the name of equality whereas they themselves go home and submit whole heartedly to their husbands.

It has been proven time and time again that in any marriage where a woman doesn't want to submit to her husband doesn't last. Just look at marriages of old, and look at the modern marriages, the stats speaks for it self.

So many divorces with children left in the custody of the woman who fails to train and instruct the children right, they grow up and end up being failures.

Yet people won't learn

all4naija: Yes! It doesn't mean the follower has to be submissive to the head where the nuance of the family matter lies is that people only see what the flawed analogy really say about the society. Effective family is based on equality. It doesn't mean there is no male or woman because there are some responsibility which exist only for both genders only but in the case of submissiveness it not. So it a thing based on idea not what actually solely can not be don't away with by resorting to co-operate as equal responsible people. I hope you will understand the nuances.

Again to the captain issue, you seemed to miss it. It is not about rank as in the captain case that I am on about but the atmosphere and right with both cooperating than being one being submissive as pilots.I repeat, I am not arguing about rank as in hierarchy but to be submissive is to yield to whatever the man say without questioning, which is aged and it doesn't mean it is encompassing. We have seen it is even full of disadvantages than advantages. Orderliness in the society is monitored by the laws - that is the barometer. In the case of the family it is the rights,responsibility and vows attested to by both people during the marriage. They are about equity, justice and equality in taking in the family. That doesn't mean the woman is automatically the father nor the father automatically the mother but it doesn't require her to be submissive in any way but co-operate to the benefit of a better family.

See bolded part. That is your own definition of submission and few people here will agree with you on that definition. I am married and the first thing I posted is that my wife makes me complete. I do not treat her like a slave, I listen to her advice, discuss with her and take her views on almost everything I do. That is what marriage is about. It is partnership, both contributing to the whole. It is about the two voices being heard and both feeling an ownership in decision making. It is not about tyranny and dictatorship as you think. Having said all that, even in any partnership, there will always be a senior partner who holds the family together, who has the overall vision and should take leadership in the home.

Nashville:

See bolded part. That is your own definition of submission and few people here will agree with you on that definition. I am married and the first thing I posted is that my wife makes me complete. I do not treat her like a slave, I listen to her advice, discuss with her and take her views on almost everything I do. That is what marriage is about. It is partnership, both contributing to the whole. It is about the two voices being heard and both feeling an ownership in decision making. It is not about tyranny and dictatorship as you think. Having said all that, even in any partnership, there will always be a senior partner who holds the family together, who has the overall vision and should take leadership in the home.

Comeon! I added which is aged and doesn't mean it is encompassing! You seem to bold what looks appealing to you half.I know submission exist in most society but I am advocating for a balance. It is obvious you haven't been reading most of my comments with open mind.

Does listening to your wife make you submissive to her?

50calibre:

You seem to be championing the course of ignorant women who don't know their role in their quest for equality with men.

I am just laughing at you, I really hope you do get what you see i.e a really stubborn woman who will really put this your belief and theory to the test.

I only pity women who are mislead by your advise, because they will only have themselves to blame by the time they are in their 50s and single or divorced.

Foolish women get carried away by this so called male-
female equality cr*p being pushed by feminists who advise women to be rebellious to their husbands all in the name of equality whereas they themselves go home and submit whole heartedly to their husbands.

It has been proven time and time again that in any marriage where a woman doesn't want to submit to her husband doesn't last. Just look at marriages of old, and look at the modern marriages, the stats speaks for it self.

So many divorces with children left in the custody of the woman who fails to train and instruct the children right, they grow up and end up being failures.

Yet people won't learn

You seem to be championing the course why our society is messed up. You need to learn how to change to balance things in nature than enslaving others. Marriage is not a must, it is the society that turns it on us all.

all4naija: Thank you for the head being the man. Is it required of the woman to be submissive because she is a woman for any reason? What difference does it make without the woman being submissive but cooperate?

Leaving the slave thing out,although, the topic can not be complete without it as it is related to human as social animals(with different reactions) and disposition submissiveness is duly unfair ideology striping her of her will.

Now, why should it be the man always in control? Don't tell me God created it that way or it is right.

Now that you have agreed that equal accountability does not work, your next problem is that why does it have to be a man. Well, many reasons,
1. That is what the bible says,
2. It's also part of our tradition
3. It makes more sense for several reasons (most cases, the man is physically stronger, he probably earns more, may be older and he usually asks for her hand in marriage so she is technically joining him).

Having said that, there is no law that says it has to be the man being the leader. You can choose to make your wife the leader in your house, if you are both fine with it. Nothing stops that as long as you both are happy with it, she can be the CEO while you be the COO.

Nashville:

Now that you have agreed that equal accountability does not work, your next problem is that why does it have to be a man. Well, many reasons,
1. That is what the bible says,
2. It's also part of our tradition
3. It makes more sense for several reasons (most cases, the man is physically stronger, he probably earns more, may be older and he usually asks for her hand in marriage so she is technically joining him).

Having said that, there is no law that says it has to be the man being the leader. You can choose to make your wife the leader in your house, if you are both fine with it. Nothing stops that as long as you both are happy with it, she can be the CEO while you be the COO.

Look at this dude forcing words into my mouth on a public forum. I only defined people perceptions and asked questions. It doesn't mean I accepted or agreed to them. Jeez!

Please, reread my comment you quoted earlier

all4naija: You seem to be championing the course why our society is messed up. You need to learn how to change to balance things in nature than enslaving others. Marriage is not a must, it is the society that turns it on us all.

And who told you marriage is not a must, the white man? Because I know such stupid belief didn't originate in Africa.

Well since you believe marriage isn't a must, I'm also guessing you also believe that children are not a must
right? What is your religion, because I know even in the bible or quaran, marriage is almost mandatory or are you a man without a religion?

It's funny you chose to follow what the white man tells you without questioning it, no wonder Africa lags behind because when a white man tells them eat sh*t it's good, they eat it

50calibre:

And who told you marriage is not a must, the white man? Because I know such stupid belief didn't originate in Africa.

Well since you believe marriage isn't a must, I'm also guessing you also believe that children are not a must
right? What is your religion, because I know even in the bible or quaran, marriage is almost mandatory or are you a man without a religion?

It's funny you chose to follow what the white man tells you without questioning it, no wonder Africa lags behind because when a white man tells them eat sh*t it's good, they eat it

Marriage is almost mandatory in the bible? Wow

By the way, who introduced Africa to the bible? The black man?

50calibre:

And who told you marriage is not a must, the white man? Because I know such stupid belief didn't originate in Africa.

Well since you believe marriage isn't a must, I'm also guessing you also believe that children are not a must
right? What is your religion, because I know even in the bible or quaran, marriage is almost mandatory or are you a man without a religion?

It's funny you chose to follow what the white man tells you without questioning it, no wonder Africa lags behind because when a white man tells them eat sh*t it's good, they eat it

Lol!!! You speak as if everybody is married and everybody must get married.

Dude, you have been following the thread and it baffles me you still ask about my religion. Just try to read previous threads though!

Heheehehe...... this is the best evening ever! now marriage is mandatory ?! Africa in the bible ?!! Only on PBS NL..

fücking hell.....

this thread has gone to the dogs - what started off as a brilliant thread has veered into a complete nuthouse. there's a difference between being submissive and just being obedient! people are mixing obedience with submission. submission is a gift - obedience is forced!

coogar: fücking hell.....

this thread has gone to the dogs - what started off as a brilliant thread has veered into a complete nuthouse. there's a difference between being submissive and just being obedient! people are mixing obedience with submission. submission is a gift - obedience is forced!

I do get it. That applies to both gender in a family. Do you agree with that?

all4naija: I do get it.

no you don't!

i cannot force my wife to be submissive to me. she has to give it to me by herself. for instance, obedience is just doing what you are told to do even if you don't want to. parents would tell their son to go wash a car by 7am - the son might not like waking up early for such tasks. he would squeeze his face, moan and groan but he would still complete the task - that's just obedience, it's not submission!

coogar:

no you don't!

i cannot force my wife to be submissive to me. she has to give it to me by herself. for instance, obedience is just doing what you are told to do even if you don't want to. parents would tell their son to go wash a car by 7am - the son might not like waking up early for such tasks. he would squeeze his face, moan and groan but he would still complete the task - that's just obedience, it's not submission!

Oh, I don't. why is it a gift I can't seem to phantom in that religious tone.Women are now meant to be giving gifts!

50calibre:

And who told you marriage is not a must, the white man? Because I know such stupid belief didn't originate in Africa.

Well since you believe marriage isn't a must, I'm also guessing you also believe that children are not a must
right? What is your religion, because I know even in the bible or quaran, marriage is almost mandatory or are you a man without a religion?

It's funny you chose to follow what the white man tells you without questioning it, no wonder Africa lags behind because when a white man tells them eat sh*t it's good, they eat it

Oh please leave the white man out of this. By the way see you contradicting yourself, isn't it the white man who brought you the bible? Marriage was never said to be mandatory in the bible, in fact people were encouraged to remain single if they had the self control to abstain so they could focus on the work of God without the distractions of marriage.

all4naija: Oh, I don't. why is it a gift I can't seem to phantom in that religious tone.Women are now meant to be giving gifts!

yes - it's a gift!
privilege is the closest word i can think of now. if it does not truly come from her mind to give then it's not submission!

coogar:

yes - it's a gift!
privilege is the closest word i can think of now. if it does not truly come from her mind to give then it's not submission!

I think your definition is different from submission from that view because it is imperative( a command). Privilege is close and it's seem like half part of it as it applies to both the man and the woman. The definition of submission and perception of the male chauvinist is absolutely different in this regard and is a must and have to be taken as right, which is unacceptable.

all4naija: I think your definition is different from submission from that view because it is imperative( a command). Privilege is close and it's seem like half part of it as it applies to both the man and the woman. The definition of submission and perception of the male chauvinist is absolutely different in this regard and is a must and have to be taken as right, which is unacceptable.

Actually, Coogar's definition is the true one. It is cavemen (and the cavewomen that allow them) that define it the wrong way simply designed to give an undue advantage to men while oppressing and suppressing their wives.

ileobatojo:

Actually, Coogar's definition is the true one. It is cavemen (and the cavewomen that allow them) that define it the wrong way simply designed to give an undue advantage to men while oppressing and suppressing their wives.

In other words submission is supposed to be close to privilege, yet what the male chauvinists are doing is taking the primitive opportunity of submission to subject women to do what they want. That to me is submission. I like privilege and cooperation which are different from what submission(which carries commanding tone)really is. So he defines something else which is close to privilege( which I advocate for that too) not submission.

I think we are on the same boat here. Just that the rudders are on different sides of it.

Submission like has recently been said, takes a lot of courage from women in this day and time. A lot (not all) of men have taken advantage of the opportunity to oppress the women in their lives. And the truth is they are simply insecure ... they oppress their women because they feel inadequate in themselves and try to gain power by hurting their wives. The truth is in the bible. If you look close enough it says that women should 'respect' their husbands ... i.e. submit but men where also commanded to do something as well. Marriage can't (in my opinion) be truly satisfying as God intended it to be, if one partner is not meeting the requirement as laid out in the bible.

The bible says that women should submit to their husbands ... but it also says that husbands should love their wives. If the husband truly loves his wife, then he would not oppress her. Remember the 2 become one therefore when the man oppresses his wife and he truly loves her, then he just wouldn't feel rite.

Ladies remember, the world can sometimes be really harsh on men and their egos ... we are meant to massage it and make him feel like he is the best of them all ... and if he loves you, he would be there for you as well in your down times.

God help us all, cause it aint easy, lol ...

Woman is created to help her man not to make decitions.With this man must have ability of good reasoning so when his woman suggest he will digest it and come out with good decition.they can still reason together to conclusion.if the woman makes most of d decitions then d man has lost his place

@all4naija, great job man.

This is the dictionary meaning of the word 'submit'; I don't understand the strange definitions the people on this thread are giving to the word:
sub·mit [səb mít]
(past and past participle sub·mit·ted, present participle sub·mit·ting, 3rd person present singular sub·mits)
verb
v. sub·mit·ted, sub·mit·ting, sub·mits
v.tr.
1. To yield or surrender (oneself) to the will or authority of another.
2. To subject to a condition or process.
OR
1. To give in to the authority, power, or desires of another.
2. To allow oneself to be subjected to something.

All the descriptive verbs in those definitions ( to give in, to yield, to surrender, to be subjected) imply something that is forced, something that is not gotten via any type of diplomacy.

I see people on this thread advocating submission because the Bible says so. The Bible also says that women should not speak in church and should always cover their hair therein (Corinthians) yet we don't see any women advocating things like this in this day and age and there are countless women preaching in churches and having their own ministries.
The truth is that times have changed.
We are no longer in the era where men were the sole bread winners and so had the most say on how the money they earned for the family should be spent. Another thing is that women are more exposed these days, there is hardly any sphere in society where you don't see women doing the exact same thing men do, their lives are no longer strictly restricted to taking care of the house and children, they get the same education men get and get practically the same exposure as men. Yet they are supposed to just shove all that knowledge and experience under the carpet and submit to another person when it comes to making decisions. Submission made more sense back then in those days when women did little outside the home and didn't have the exposure/knowledge men had.

Any marriage will last and be a happy one when BOTH parties are happy. Not when one party is 'surrendering' or 'subjected' constantly to the will of the other.

One unfortunate thing about this submission issue is that a lot of men look at laws in the Bible about submission of women in marriages and conclude, based on these laws that they must be superior to women and women exist only to be subjected to men. This is what has led to many sexist attitudes that pervade our society today. Also, a lot of callous men are taking advantage of the submission thing to trample on the rights of women and to treat them badly in marriages. And in spite of this bad treatment a lot of women will stay put in their housed and not complain/resist simply because they see the husband as the one who knows best.

I understand that men will resist any thing will cause them to cease being the head of the family. It is not easy to give up a privileged role, one that puts you in charge of others, gives you the final say, makes you superior etc. It is not easy to give up such a role and so the men will advocate submission.

soreola:

Ladies remember, the world can sometimes be really harsh on men and their egos ... we are meant to massage it and make him feel like he is the best of them all ... and if he loves you, he would be there for you as well in your down times.

God help us all, cause it aint easy, lol ...

Why are ladies meant to massage the ego of men? Did they give the men those egos or why are they the ones with the task of massaging it?
Anyone who chooses to have a big ego should massage it himself, women are not under any obligation to fan anybody's arrogance.