@Frosbel, let me be the first to let you know that I truly admire and respect your efforts at de-doctrinating the lot of Christian-folks who have fallen to False Prophets and Teachers. There is a greater danger than falsehood in religion. it is the danger of propagation and ultimately extremism that leads to fatal violence or worse. intellectual enslavement. I dare say I shall join you in this worthy crusade to stem the tide of extremists, scammers and social-robbers using religion for distasteful ends.

2 Peter 2:1–2

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

Ymodulus: at times i wonder which u are.
ATHEIST?
THEIST?
AGNOSTIC?
PAGAN?
DEIST?


OL!! that was a nice article.

Stay focused on the issue at hand

lagerwhenindoubt: @Frosbel, let me be the first to let you know that I truly admire and respect your efforts at de-doctrinating the lot of Christian-folks who have fallen to False Prophets and Teachers. There is a greater danger than falsehood in religion. it is the danger of propagation and ultimately extremism that leads to fatal violence or worse. intellectual enslavement. I dare say I shall join you in this worthy crusade to stem the tide of extremists, scammers and social-robbers using religion for distasteful ends.

Thank you for your support, appreciated !

frosbel:

Bible evidence ? Sorry where is this elusive evidence you keep providing ?

liar, i'll post it again to your shame. You said

what was the rich man's name ?
why are demons and their leader for whom hell was prepared, not yet tormented, why MAN.

And i gave you answers. i said "what was the name of the centurion Jesus said had great faith? Or the name of the thief on the cross? The Bible talks of angels in hell 2peter 2:4. I've shown you this before, do you lack retentive memory or purposely choose to live in denial?". These answers clearly show from the Bible that some fallen angels are in hell contrary to your claims, and falls your argument that a man doesn't exist if you don't know his name. Instead of you to bury your shameless head in penitent silence, you are here fooling yourself and lazy folks who cannot read. Here is the folly of an answer you gave

you are so fanatical and emotional in your argument, such that you refuse to slow down and read the bible for yourself with an open mind.

Sticking to traditional beliefs will not save you on the last day, only following Christ and his TRUE doctrine will.

Here is the Bible again, Mat 8:5 And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him,
Mat 8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marveled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
Read it with all the slowness and unaidedness you can and tell us the name of the centurion. Search for the passage on the thief on the cross with Jesus too if your loss of tradition permits you. Here is the Peter passage.
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
I'm curious to hear what your new church's traditions have to say about this verse. i'm certain you are desperately searching for some link/webpage to tell you the next line. When you find, i'll be waiting here. Go fetch a link mr.the only one following the true doctrine(whatever that means).

frosbel:

Jesus dictionary ? So we have another dictionary that explains these words differently ? Please show me where this dictionary is ?

Last time I checked , the bible translators translated the words of GOD and JESUS into the most appropriate English equivalents, are you saying they did not know what they were doing ?

SMH

You're asking me if there is another dictionary? Were you not the one making reference to the dictionary of Image123?
Joh 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Mat 27:20 But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus.

Do the words 'die, death, and destroy' mean the conventional from the above passages? Your answer is my answer, really.

[quote author=Image123]
liar, i'll post it again to your shame. You said

I have nothing to be ashamed of, do you have anything to be ashamed of ?

And i gave you answers. i said "what was the name of the centurion Jesus said had great faith? Or the name of the thief on the cross? I've shown you this before, do you lack retentive memory or purposely choose to live in denial?". T

Hmm, Sir, you seem to be getting more confused.

Jesus Christ had direct conversations with these people you mentioned, they were events not parables. They were real time events which were observed , recorded and written down for our awareness and encouragement in Faith.

The Parable of the rich MAN and Lazarus was not an event which happened, Jesus was conversing nether with the rich MAN nor Lazarus, he was simply telling a story with a meaning , something which the Jews failed to grasp , as you also seem not to.

hese answers clearly show from the Bible that some fallen angels are in hell contrary to your claims, and falls your argument that a man doesn't exist if you don't know his name. Instead of you to bury your shameless head in penitent silence, you are here fooling yourself and lazy folks who cannot read. Here is the folly of an answer you gave 2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Darkness, does not mean prison, lol. The angels are in darkness , reserved for judgement , no hope of ever returning to their former state. Darkness is a condition and is a prison of sorts.

For example :

"But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe." - Galatians 3:22

The above verse clearly states that all who live in SIN are in Prison even while on this earth. They dwell in the darkness and chains of SIN. This also applies to fallen demons who are now in darkness and prison , reserved for the day of judgement and subsequent perdition.

"Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short." - Revelation 12:12

Finally , on this point , If we use your logic, can you tell us if Paul was in prison when he penned this verse :

"Epaphras, my fellow prisoner in Christ Jesus, greets you," - Philemon 1:23

[quote author=Image123]
You're asking me if there is another dictionary? Were you not the one making reference to the dictionary of Image123?

I asked you to tell us the meaning of a few simple words, even that was hard for you !!

Joh 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

Who shall never see DEATH ? Christians, no ? Christians or Saints who will be granted immortality, i.e eternal life, right ?

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Ok, and ?

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

and what are the works of the DEVIL ?

Let's see what Jesus said they were :

John 10:10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.

Plain language.

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

And ?

Mat 27:20 But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus. [/color]

And they did ' destroy him , he died, but death could not hold him, so though they killed him, he had eternal life abiding in him, therefore the grave ( not HELL ) was not able to hold him.

Do the words 'die, death, and destroy' mean the conventional from the above passages? Your answer is my answer, really.

Sorry , your logic is not very clear, try again and make it clear this time.

frosbel: Hmm, Sir, you seem to be getting more confused.

Jesus Christ had direct conversations with these people you mentioned, they were events not parables. They were real time events which were observed , recorded and written down for our awareness and encouragement in Faith.

The Parable of the rich MAN and Lazarus was not an event which happened, Jesus was conversing nether with the rich MAN nor Lazarus, he was simply telling a story with a meaning , something which the Jews failed to grasp , as you also seem not to.

Are you kidding me? Direct conversations? Did Abraham not have direct conversations with the rich man? Was the EVENT of the rich man and lazarus not recorded or written down? Was the event for your loss of awareness and discouragement? What are you saying, have you started smoking? a story with a meaning, what meaning? you think He was a story-teller telling tales from the arabian night?

frosbel: Darkness, does not mean priso[/b]n, lol. The angels are in darkness , reserved for judgement , no hope of ever returning to their former state. [b]Darkness is a condition and is a prison of sorts.

For example :

Which one is it? Darkness DOES NOT mean prison or darkness is a prison? You have claimed this two positions in the above quote. And what does this have to do with anything? i just quoted plainly to you that some fallen angels are in hell, and you come up with your exposition on darkness and prisons?
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
You seem to suffer from memory loss so let me remind you. You were saying that even devil and his angels are not yet punished so why will humans be punished, and here is scriptures showing that some angels are in punishment, reserved to their final punishment/judgement.

Finally , on this point , If we use your logic, can you tell us if Paul was in prison when he penned this verse :

"Epaphras, my fellow prisoner in Christ Jesus, greets you," - Philemon 1:23

oh you somehow think that prisoner means something else ba? But death, die and co must streamline into your bigotry?

frosbel: And they did ' destroy him , he died, but death could not hold him, so though they killed him, he had eternal life abiding in him, therefore the grave ( not HELL ) was not able to hold him.

The same way death and hell will lose their hold on people on the judgement day.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
You may also read the verse that follows if it doesn't inconvenience your new found traditions.

Image123:
The same way death and hell will lose their hold on people on the judgement day.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
You may also read the verse that follows if it doesn't inconvenience your new found traditions.

So what happens to death and hell in the lake of fire?

TroGunn:

So what happens to death and hell in the lake of fire?

i'd prefer you asked Jesus, or are you keeping malice with him?
i'd say however that the same thing that happens to other entities in the lake of fire will happen to death and hell. SO, let's ask frosbel your new god.

frosbel:

Jesus dictionary ? So we have another dictionary that explains these words differently ? Please show me where this dictionary is ?

Last time I checked , the bible translators translated the words of GOD and JESUS into the most appropriate English equivalents, are you saying they did not know what they were doing ?

SMH

You are just beating about the bush on this topic. Image123 has floored all your false debate on this issue yet you wont admit becauuse you want to make hell look cheap before the eyes of people but you and i know that wether we make the message of eternal torment cheap or not cannot change how God has made it to be. Annony floored u on it in the other thread too yet you keep making noise. Somebody here asked which Jesus are you following? Well, for me i stil believe you are a follower of Jesus just that on this particular issue you are not getting it right. Be careful not to suffer God's wrath at the end of the day for deceiving people after you have toiled in God's work. Be careful my brother.

alexleo:

You are just beating about the bush on this topic. Image123 has floored all your false debate on this issue yet you wont admit becauuse you want to make hell look cheap before the eyes of people but you and i know that wether we make the message of eternal torment cheap or not cannot change how God has made it to be. Annony floored u on it in the other thread too yet you keep making noise. Somebody here asked which Jesus are you following? Well, for me i stil believe you are a follower of Jesus just that on this particular issue you are not getting it right. Be careful not to suffer God's wrath at the end of the day for deceiving people after you have toiled in God's work. Be careful my brother.

Which thread did Annony floor who? Image123 is only starting to delve into the scriptures and personally, I'm getting warmed up. At least image123 is ready to talk scriptures.

Image123:
i'd prefer you asked Jesus, or are you keeping malice with him?
i'd say however that the same thing that happens to other entities in the lake of fire will happen to death and hell. SO, let's ask frosbel your new god.

Here I was thinking we were gonna have a scripture-delving exchange? And Frosbel my new god? Where that one from come?

So according to you what happens to death and hell in the lake of fire?

Keep in mind 1 Cor 15:26 - "The last enemy to be destroyed is death".
Also Rev 21:4 - "....There will be no more death..."

Image123:
i'd prefer you asked Jesus, or are you keeping malice with him?
i'd say however that the same thing that happens to other entities in the lake of fire will happen to death and hell. SO, let's ask frosbel your new god.

Yes o. He is a god also to plappvile, ijaw kid and co. Truthislight stands on his own in some issues

TroGunn:

Which thread did Annony floor who? Image123 is only starting to delve into the scriptures and personally, I'm getting warmed up. At least image123 is ready to talk scriptures.

There was a thread that Annony opened here sometime ago where this issue of hell was debated extensively thats why am not interested in arguing it again. The prayer i prayed on this issue is what i choose to do about it Having said that, let me quickly say that as much as you are busy reading the bible to prove or disprove whatever point on this issue, make sure you are genuinely saved because except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. Just my humble advice.

alexleo:

Yes o. He is a god also to plappvile, ijaw kid and co. Truthislight stands on his own in some issues

This is very lame, bros. Is this a distraction? Frosbel and I agree on somethings, not everything, we sure are on same page on the eternal torment issue. If u have a scriptural view for your belief on God tormenting people eternally, put it forth and refute the questions asked - away with the childish distractions. It's pathetic, really.

A man has a child who disobeys his simple command. The man decides to deal with the child for disobeying him. He flogs the living daylight out of the child, taunts him and makes the child kneel down under the sun. You pass by the house the first day and you notice the child suffering under the scorching sun; you say to yourself, "the child probably deserves it". You pass the second day and you still meet the child outside the house under punishment. The third day, the same thing is still happening. For one whole week, this child is still outside kneeling down, he has not eaten nor drank water nor has he slept. You pass by after the one week has passed and you still meet this child outside. What would you think about the father?
Is it possible for a father to treat his child in such a way?
No?
Then why would you think that the perfect Father would roast His creation for all eternity?

alexleo:

Yes o. He is a god also to plappvile, ijaw kid and co. Truthislight stands on his own in some issues

Alexleo you don fall my HAND finish.......you call frosbel our new god just because we speak the truth from the scriptures??............

Now you have irked me.............this is utter childishness from you.............instead of you to reason from the scriptures and discuss maturely all you could do is support image's statement.............smh!!!!!..........

Get your double edged sword ready and let's discuss this hell fire gibberish once and for all........oh you can't........you'll rather wanna hide.......

alexleo:

There was a thread that Annony opened here sometime ago where this issue of hell was debated extensively thats why am not interested in arguing it again. The prayer i prayed on this issue is what i choose to do about it Having said that, let me quickly say that as much as you are busy reading the bible to prove or disprove whatever point on this issue, make sure you are genuinely saved because except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. Just my humble advice.

And how did that thread end??......anony because of his clinging to the traditions of men had to agree that satan would live forever when the bible clearly says satan would be crushed and destroyed....................the moment you guys start holding on to fundamental truths in the scriptures the farther away you guys would be from greek philosophies and the traditions of men that contravenes bible truths...........

lagerwhenindoubt: @Frosbel, let me be the first to let you know that I truly admire and respect your efforts at de-doctrinating the lot of Christian-folks who have fallen to False Prophets and Teachers. There is a greater danger than falsehood in religion. it is the danger of propagation and ultimately extremism that leads to fatal violence or worse. intellectual enslavement. I dare say I shall join you in this worthy crusade to stem the tide of extremists, scammers and social-robbers using religion for distasteful ends.

Hmmm...an unbeliever joining frosbel in this crusade to deliver false teaching about hell and eternal torment. Yes of course thats what you ll like because it sounds sweet in your ears while the truth is rejceted because it tastes so bitter. My dear, the best and first thing we require of you is to be saved. Give your life to Jesus. When u ve done this then we will be glad to see u debating or crusading.

inspiredbyGOD:.:
A man has a child who disobeys his simple command. The man decides to deal with the child for disobeying him. He flogs the living daylight out of the child, taunts him and makes the child kneel down under the sun. You pass by the house the first day and you notice the child suffering under the scorching sun; you say to yourself, "the child probably deserves it". You pass the second day and you still meet the child outside the house under punishment. The third day, the same thing is still happening. For one whole week, this child is still outside kneeling down, he has not eaten nor drank water nor has he slept. You pass by after the one week has passed and you still meet this child outside. What would you think about the father?
Is it possible for a father to treat his child in such a way?
No?
Then why would you think that the perfect Father would roast His creation for all eternity?

This eternal torment teaching is just senseless.

inspiredbyGOD:.:
A man has a child who disobeys his simple command. The man decides to deal with the child for disobeying him. He flogs the living daylight out of the child, taunts him and makes the child kneel down under the sun. You pass by the house the first day and you notice the child suffering under the scorching sun; you say to yourself, "the child probably deserves it". You pass the second day and you still meet the child outside the house under punishment. The third day, the same thing is still happening. For one whole week, this child is still outside kneeling down, he has not eaten nor drank water nor has he slept. You pass by after the one week has passed and you still meet this child outside. What would you think about the father?
Is it possible for a father to treat his child in such a way?
No?
Then why would you think that the perfect Father would roast His creation for all eternity?

You think God's ways are like your ways? Keep doing nonsense logic. The bible is not logic based, thats why water seperated and the children of Isreal passed through the mighty sea. Manner fell from heaven, Mary conceived and gave birth to Jesus by the Holy Spirit, sampson killed about a thousand army with jaw bone of a horse, Fire fell down from heaven and consumed Elijah's sacrifice. As long as you use logic to view the scriptures you ll continue to fail it.

alexleo:

You think God's ways are like your ways? Keep doing nonsense logic. The bible is not logic based, thats why water seperated and the children of Isreal passed through the mighty sea. Manner fell from heaven, Mary conceived and gave birth to Jesus by the Holy Spirit, sampson killed about a thousand army with jaw bone of a horse, Fire fell down from heaven and consumed Elijah's sacrifice. As long as you use logic to view the scriptures you ll continue to fail it.

That is why God would roast people continually forever even when the scriptures says its a LIE??.......smh!!!!!......

.........

TroGunn:

This eternal torment teaching is just senseless.

Thats your own opinion. When you leav this world you will know wether its actually senseless or you ve fooled yourself. And mind you, no remedy for you at that point. May God help you.

ijawkid:

That is why God would roast people continually forever even when the scriptures says its a LIE??.......smh!!!!!......

.........

it is you that says it is a lie and not the scriptures. Because you want the message to sound sweet in your ears rather than the bitter truth of it. You people are playing with God. Have you read the old testament to see how he dealt with evil doers exactly the way he said he will deal with them if they didnt repent of whatever they were doing, without all theses sentiments that you people are displaying here about him? The only thing that changes God's mind when he wants to punish is genuine repentance. Be careful my little brother. God's ways are different from ours.

alexleo:
it is you that says it is a lie and not the scriptures. Because you want the message to sound sweet in your ears rather than the bitter truth of it. You people are playing with God. Have you read the old testament to see how he dealt with evil doers exactly the way he said he will deal with them if they didnt repent of whatever they were doing, without all theses sentiments that you people are displaying here about him? The only thing that changes God's mind when he wants to punish is genuine repentance. Be careful my little brother. God's ways are different from ours.

You are the one subscribing to fairy tales my bro............Gods gift is everlasting LIFe and he gives it to those who have been obedient and faithful..............DEATH is the penalty for those who have hated God and disobeyed Him......satan and his cohorts would be crushed completely along with "death" itself.....

You need to read that your bible very well and stop dreaming.............

And if I may ask you:::: how did God deal with evil doers in the past??.....did he roast them in a furnace continually just as you posit??.....

ijawkid:

You are the one subscribing to fairy tales my bro............Gods gift is everlasting LIFe and he gives it to those who have been obedient and faithful..............DEATH is the penalty for those who have hated God and disobeyed Him......satan and his cohorts would be crushed completely along with "death" itself.....

You need to read that your bible very well and stop dreaming.............

And if I may ask you:::: how did God deal with evil doers in the past??.....did he roast them in a furnace continually just as you posit??.....

Am not talking about wether he roasted them or not. Am saying he punished without sentiment accordingto how he wanted to punish for any sin so dont bring in sentiment and use it to inteprete eternal torment as not eternal. What do mean by stop dreaming? I dont have anything to lose or gain by a sinner facing eternal torment.
It is even you people that are sugar coating it that have human accolades and whatevrer going for you.

ijawkid:

You are the one subscribing to fairy tales my bro............Gods gift is everlasting LIFe and he gives it to those who have been obedient and faithful..............DEATH is the penalty for those who have hated God and disobeyed Him......satan and his cohorts would be crushed completely along with "death" itself.....

You need to read that your bible very well and stop dreaming.............

And if I may ask you:::: how did God deal with evil doers in the past??.....did he roast them in a furnace continually just as you posit??.....

Am not talking about wether he roasted them or not. Am saying he punished without sentiment accordingto how he wanted to punish for any sin so dont bring in sentiment and use it to inteprete eternal torment as not eternal. What do mean by stop dreaming? I dont have anything to lose or gain by a sinner facing eternal torment.
It is even you people that are sugar coating it that have human accolades and whatevrer going for you.

Alexleo, before you wish unending torment for someone else, think of you yourself being there. For people like you, the fear of hell is the beginning of wisdom.

alexleo:
Am not talking about wether he roasted them or not. Am saying he punished without sentiment accordingto how he wanted to punish for any sin so dont bring in sentiment and use it to inteprete eternal torment as not eternal. What do mean by stop dreaming? I dont have anything to lose or gain by a sinner facing eternal torment.
It is even you people that are sugar coating it that have human accolades and whatevrer going for you.

You need to teach the truth my brother.......no one is sugar coating anything here........the scriptures is interpreting itself and speaking Gods thoughts on this matter.............the OP has asked pertinent questions which you should be defending with the scriptures if you really believe our heavenly Father would burn persons up forever in fire..............

inspiredbyGOD:.:
Alexleo, before you wish unending torment for someone else, think of you yourself being there. For people like you, the fear of hell is the beginning of wisdom.

I am not wishing anybody eternal torment. Ours is to preach the truth and anybody rejects it he will still face it at the end of the day. The fear of God remains the begining of wisdom.