ijawkid:

ECclesiastes 9:5

____________________________
New International Version (©1984)
For the living know that they will die, but the
dead know nothing; they have no further
reward, and even the memory of them is
forgotten.
_____________________________
New Living Translation (©2007)
The living at least know they will die, but the
dead know nothing. They have no further
reward, nor are they remembered.
______________________________


They are conscious of nothing at all....

My apology to the preacher. am not saying he is not correct but i tend to hold a different view from wat was quoted from ecclesiastes..from the beginning of the passage he said everything is meaningless but we all know the death of Christ is not meaningless..my point is the preacher has not been given the knowledge to know what happens after death..he is only searching for the key to the meaning of life....Now there must be a reason why we are not given an insightful knowlege to know what happens immediately someone dies..i believe only God knows best..but from my little knowlegde of scriptures..the scenario where Jesus painted a graphical illustration is that of the rich man and lazarus..if u look at vs22 of luke 16..the bible says the rich man died and was buried and immediately found himself in hell where he was in torment.lazarus was not was not in heaven but in the bossom of Abraham..remember the pharisee believed so much in ressurection that they asked Jesus questions..and Jesus replied, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is not the God of the dead but of the living..after physical death, individuals continue to exist in a state of personal consciousness,lets take a little look @ the apokalypsis revelation of John the beloved who was closer to Jesus than anyone, he was opportuned to have a little insight of what happens after death when banished @ the island of patmos..in Rev6:9-10 the bible says "when he opened the fifth seal, i saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.10..they called out in a loud voice..how long,Sovereign Lord, holy and true. Until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood? Then each of them was given a white robe AND THEY WERE TOLD TO WAIT A LITTLE LONGER, UNTIL THE NUMBER OF THEIR FELLOW SERVANTS AND BROTHERS WHO WERE TO BE KILLED AS THEY HAD BEEN WAS COMPLETED...pls dnt ask me wether souls have tongues and can speak..from d scripture above you can see that the ressurection has not even occured yet..so where are these souls staying? Your guess is as good as mine..lets look @ heb 12....therefore since we are sorrounded by such a great cloud of WITNESSES...who are these cloud of witnesses that exist even before RESSURECTION? IF u look @vs22 but you have come to mount zion....23.to the spirits of righteous men made perfect.....who are these righteousmen in the city of the living God with Jesus even before the ressurection Ur guess is as good as mine..chew this bit for now i will continue....

truthislight:

All the bible including your 1901 kingjames v are translated from manuscript that are over a thousand years older. You can still see the way king james abused the word "hell" in the bible from those old manuscript today.

Using hell to means a place of fire and using it to means grave at other places thereby creating confussion.

If you dont sort out this things and know where fire is suppose to be used and where it is not supposed to be used you will still be going round and round.

Ok, consider, if hell is fire or a place of fire as us in the kingjames bible, why then throw "hell" into the lake of fire? Fire into fire

See:

"And death and "hell" were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." (Revelation 20:14).
....................

The right word there ^^^ is grave since if some one dies he will be put in the grave.

But kingjames bible just keeps on mixing things up there and many other places.

That Rev20:14 is telling us that death and grave were cast into fire, that is destroyed since the next chapter 21 verse 4 says and "death will be no more" and this death will be know more is as a result of it being cast into fire in verse 14 of chap 20.


But the translators of kingjames version owing to their bias or tradition wanted to lead people to think that it is "hell fire" and the people inside that is thrown into fire.
*Smh*



No he is not and did not. What you are doing is a misaplication of scriptures.



yes he did, since the meaning of the word hell used at that place is wrong and the place he went has no fire.

Blame tradition and kingjames bible for your confussion.

The right word there should have been grave, sheol, or hedes but certainly not hell.(since hell is not the common grave of mankind but "fire" as used in kingjames bible)





all this is you giving yourself planty confusing work.

The truth is a very straight forward thing and not you trying to explain why Jesus did not go to "hell fire".

Ofcouse we know that Jesus was not burnt in fire or tormented, but your use of the word hell is giving you this problem and confusion.

Just know that the correct word there is that Jesus went to grave or sheol or hedes, the resting place of all mankind and waiting to be resurrected.
Peace.

the way you attacked the KJV is as if nobody should use the bible again..if we quote NIV and the other translations una go say it has also been compromised..no wonder the unbelievers(atheist and muslims,) have a perfect ground argument and accusation against we the christians..are u telling me Our God is the Author of Confusion??God is no author of confusion. And abegi no tell me say our fathers have missed it cos they used The KJv. The KJv has been used Of God to CONVERT AND EDIFY MORE PEOPLE THAN ANY OTHER VERSIONS IN HISTORY..it has been speaking to our ancient fathers the TRUTH even before you were born.

Bidam: the way you attacked the KJV is as if nobody should use the bible again..if we quote NIV and the other translations una go say it has also been compromised..no wonder the unbelievers(atheist and muslims,) have a perfect ground argument and accusation against we the christians..are u telling me Our God is the Author of Confusion??God is no author of confusion. And abegi no tell me say our fathers have missed it cos they used The KJv. The KJv has been used Of God to CONVERT AND EDIFY MORE PEOPLE THAN ANY OTHER VERSIONS IN HISTORY..it has been speaking to our ancient fathers the TRUTH even before you were born.

this is being purely emotional.

When you are over it you can come back.
Peace.

truthislight:

"The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence." (Psalm 115:17).

ofcos i know that..but the fact that we have been given eternal life guarantees that we have everlasting fellowship with God..our life in Christ will never be diminished, only enlarged.that "the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who is given unto us"(rom 5:5) mandates the continued conscious existence of the believer after physical death because nothing, not even death, "shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord"(Rom8:39)

truthislight:

this is being purely emotional.

When you are over it you can come back.
Peace.

nope...i spoke the truth and it hurt so bad..sori bro...

Bidam: My apology to the preacher. am not saying he is not correct but i tend to hold a different view from wat was quoted from ecclesiastes..from the beginning of the passage he said everything is meaningless but we all know the death of Christ is not meaningless..my point is the preacher has not been given the knowledge to know what happens after death..he is only searching for the key to the meaning of life....Now there must be a reason why we are not given an insightful knowlege to know what happens immediately someone dies..i believe only God knows best..but from my little knowlegde of scriptures..the scenario where Jesus painted a graphical illustration is that of the rich man and lazarus..if u look at vs22 of luke 16..the bible says the rich man died and was buried and immediately found himself in hell where he was in torment.lazarus was not was not in heaven but in the bossom of Abraham..remember the pharisee believed so much in ressurection that they asked Jesus questions..and Jesus replied, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is not the God of the dead but of the living..after physical death, individuals continue to exist in a state of personal consciousness,lets take a little look @ the apokalypsis revelation of John the beloved who was closer to Jesus than anyone, he was opportuned to have a little insight of what happens after death when banished @ the island of patmos..in Rev6:9-10 the bible says "when he opened the fifth seal, i saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.10..they called out in a loud voice..how long,Sovereign Lord, holy and true. Until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood? Then each of them was given a white robe AND THEY WERE TOLD TO WAIT A LITTLE LONGER, UNTIL THE NUMBER OF THEIR FELLOW SERVANTS AND BROTHERS WHO WERE TO BE KILLED AS THEY HAD BEEN WAS COMPLETED...pls dnt ask me wether souls have tongues and can speak..from d scripture above you can see that the ressurection has not even occured yet..so where are these souls staying? Your guess is as good as mine..lets look @ heb 12....therefore since we are sorrounded by such a great cloud of WITNESSES...who are these cloud of witnesses that exist even before RESSURECTION? IF u look @vs22 but you have come to mount zion....23.to the spirits of righteous men made perfect.....who are these righteousmen in the city of the living God with Jesus even before the ressurection Ur guess is as good as mine..chew this bit for now i will continue....

Let me concentrate on the rev 6:9-10

Those souls of those death saints in revelation 6:9 contextually shows that those persons died sacrificial deaths...nothing more nothing less.........that is why they are found under an altar......also remember that before they are given robes and crowns to wear they had to be ressurected first(revelation 20:4 $ 5)..............without ressurection the those faithfuls remained in sheol just like Jesus was in sheol before he was ressurected...........
----____________________________
Do you know what should solve this whole problem??........if you study Jesus' death and ressurection very well then you would understand the real truths as to what happens to man when he dies.........and as we know Jesus is the firstborn from the dead,meaning his ressurection is set as a pattern for all others who'd be ressurected.........
______________________________
I'll like to ask you this......when Jesus died where was his soul??.......did it run to the heavens or did it remain there in sheol until ressurection??..........was Jesus' soul dissociated from his body to go reside somewhere??.....was Jesus conscious while he was in sheol before his ressurection??
_______________________________

Whether it "makes sense" or not does not count here. John saw people that died come back to life...now apologies to john's level of education-he did not see flesh and blood-he saw supposed immortal souls. After they had their judgment, they were packaged into a lake of fire where he saw them perish again. The term "second death" should not make sense to anybody. Whats d essence? Why should God make it look like hollywood (like u say)? But thats what he saw and he gave that modest description.

Oh, making sense does not count again? Most of you build on emotion by saying it is irrational for God to punish people for eternity. i used your approach now and you say it doesn't count? The Bible does not record the bolded. Instead, it says
Rev 14:9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, If any man worshippeth the beast and his image, and receiveth a mark on his forehead, or upon his hand,
Rev 14:10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 and the smoke of their torment goeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name.

you got it wrong, they are not being raise to be killed as you said and as some translation erroneously put "damnation" but rather to "judgment" as Revelation 20:12 rightly puts it and explains what will happened.

You are supporting my position tislight. Frosb and the gang say that the sinners will be raised and then killed again, but i'm saying NO, that's senseless and unbiblical. What the Bible says and that you just said is that they will be judged. Their sentence will be ETERNAL damnation.

so, when the bible says "all" the dead shall come out, you say it does not make sense abi?

No, i said it doesn't make sense for them to be disturbed. What's with you and selective reading? Why should a sinner that has been dead since 6000years ago be raised, and killed again? Why should death and hell give up all the dead, and then they are killed again. That makes no sense and is not in the Bible. What is in the Bible is that they will be punished forever.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Now, people that died due to Adamic sin have paid the wages of their Adamic sins, so, on given another short at life by God because of the grace from Jesus ransom sacrifice for Adamic sin, Since they have not heard about Jesus and the ransom and as such can not call on him to be seved the are given the opurtunity.

How can they call on some one they have not heard of and neither have they been told about Jesus, as such this fundamental basis for judgement has not been applied to them, how then and on what basis are they being judged and condemned forever?

This makes some sense, but most importantly, Where is this in the Bible?

All the bible including your 1901 kingjames v are translated from manuscript that are over a thousand years older. You can still see the way king james abused the word "hell" in the bible from those old manuscript today.

i said and you even quoted 1901 American Standard Version. Hope you see your bias against the KJV?

Using hell to means a place of fire and using it to means grave at other places thereby creating confussion.

The KJV you are fighting with hardly translates the same word as grave. You do err.

Ok, consider, if hell is fire or a place of fire as us in the kingjames bible, why then throw "hell" into the lake of fire? Fire into fire

Consider that the tongue is referred to as a fire, can the tongue be burnt by fire?
Jam 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity; so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

But the translators of kingjames version owing to their bias or tradition wanted to lead people to think that it is "hell fire" and the people inside that is thrown into fire.
*Smh*

You need deliverance of the TB Joshua form. Many other versions translate the same word as hell. Quit hating what you can't match.

No he is not and did not. What you are doing is a misaplication of scriptures.

Please, frosb and the crew, correct this guy for me. He may not listen to me.

"The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence." (Psalm 115:17).

Fortunately, believers will never die according to Jesus.
Joh 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

your write up is usually contradictory and unusually long.

sorry about length. i try to explain and also to touch everything said instead of picking and choosing sentences without considering context. i will change

Bidam: nope...i spoke the truth and it hurt so bad..sori bro...

ijawkid:

Let me concentrate on the rev 6:9-10

Those souls of those death saints in revelation 6:9 contextually shows that those persons died sacrificial deaths...nothing more nothing less.........that is why they are found under an altar......also remember that before they are given robes and crowns to wear they had to be ressurected first(revelation 20:4 $ 5)..............without ressurection the those faithfuls remained in sheol just like Jesus was in sheol before he was ressurected...........
----____________________________
Do you know what should solve this whole problem??........if you study Jesus' death and ressurection very well then you would understand the real truths as to what happens to man when he dies.........and as we know Jesus is the firstborn from the dead,meaning his ressurection is set as a pattern for all others who'd be ressurected.........
______________________________
I'll like to ask you this......when Jesus died where was his soul??.......did it run to the heavens or did it remain there in sheol until ressurection??..........was Jesus' soul dissociated from his body to go reside somewhere??.....was Jesus conscious while he was in sheol before his ressurection??
_______________________________

You mean they actually gave their necks willingly to be slaughtered like rams by boko haram? abegi go siddon..u no get talk. To answer your questions lets start with what happened to the Repentant Thief on the Cross (Luke 23:32-34, 39-43): As they hung on their respective crosses, one of the thieves who was crucified with Him turned to Jesus with a repentant heart saying, “Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom”. Christ’s response was to say, “Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in Paradise” (see Luke 23:39-43).


We know that at the time of His death the Lord Jesus descended to the “heart of the earth” where He stayed for three days and three nights (Matt. 12:40) “and preached to the spirits in prison” (I Pet. 3:19). This tells us that up to the time of Christ’s sacrifice for the sins of the world, “Paradise” was in the heart of the earth. He promised the repentant thief they would be together in Paradise that very day.

This is the same place that is referred to as Abraham’s Bosom in Luke 16:22. From II Corinthians we know that Paradise is now located in “the third heaven” (see II Cor. 12:1-4). Obviously this abode of the saved dead was moved from the innermost parts, or the heart, of the earth to the heavenly abode of God. Paradise is the place where the souls of the redeemed reside awaiting the resurrection. Before the price of their redemption was paid on the cross, it was located in the heart of the earth. But, after the full payment was made, it was relocated to the third heaven, or the Heaven of heavens, where God is. There they wait in God’s presence for the time of their resurrection.

The souls of all of the redeemed who have died since Jesus Christ’s resurrection have entered into God’s presence there as to be “absent from the body” is to be “present with the Lord” (see II Cor. 5:6-.

Image123:
Oh, making sense does not count again? Most of you build on emotion

What are you talking about?

Image123:
by saying it is irrational for God to punish people for eternity.

for sadist like you it makes sens, and all this is in your mind.

The bible says out of the abundance of the heart/mind the mouth speaks.

I can imagine how cruel your heart is then.

Image123:
i used your approach now and you say it doesn't count? The Bible does not record the bolded.

i dont know what you are saying my friend.

Image123:
Instead, it says
Rev 14:9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, If any man worshippeth the beast and his image, and receiveth a mark on his forehead, or upon his hand,
Rev 14:10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 and the smoke of their torment goeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name.

what is all this?

Dont let let me feel you have nothing to say please.

If fire is the symbol of second death or everlasting destruction why are you unable to get the gist?

People or thing that God use fire to signifier the destruction means their death is final.
Get it?


Torment is not literal torment, but it is use for emphasis, or, is the hell in heaven where the throne of Yahweh and of christ is, and where his holy angels are?

what you posted is not literal.

Anything destruction referencing with fire by God in the bible signifies permanent destruction and ever and ever burning or forever and ever tormenting is for emphasis since the symbol is fire.

Have you forgotten that death and grave will be cast into this fire? I guess grave will also be torment forever and ever.
U need to upgrade.

Image123:
You are supporting my position tislight. Frosb and the gang say that the sinners will be raised and then killed again, but i'm saying NO, that's senseless and unbiblical.

they will be raise and taught the word of God and be given an opurtunity to chose christ like we have the opurtunity today.
Those that rejects it will not be fit for the kingdom of God and as such they will be destroyed.

Image123:
What the Bible says and that you just said is that they will be judged.

Judgement day is 1000yrs,

Image123:
Their sentence will be ETERNAL damnation.

after they have been resurrected and the unrighteouse in God's memory who have not
heard about the christ will be taught from the scrolls to make an informed choice like we do.
Those that refuse will be destroyed eternally

Image123:
No, i said it doesn't make sense for them to be disturbed.

we are not here to discuss what makes sens to you but rather what the bible says.

Image123:
What's with you and selective reading? Why should a sinner that has been dead since 6000years ago be raised,

the bible says "all" in the grave will come out.
John 5:28 & Rev 20:12.

Image123:
Why should death and hell give up all the dead,

to be taught about christ & Yahweh that they have not heard of befor so that it forms the basis of there judgement.
some people that have died in the past are better than you.

Image123:
and then they are killed again. That makes no sense and is not in the Bible.

yes it is = all the dead. John 5:28 read!

Image123:
What is in the Bible is that they will be punished forever.

the wages of sin is death the bible says.

Image123:
This makes some sense, but most importantly, Where is this in the Bible?

"For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed, For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved, How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?" <<<

and how shall they hear without a preacher? (Romans 10:10-15)

Image123:
The KJV you are fighting with hardly translates the same word as grave. You do err.

the kjv is not consistent in translating the word hell, that is why it said Jesus went to hell(fire)

Image123:
Consider that the tongue is referred to as a fire, can the tongue be burnt by fire?
Jam 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity; so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

irrelevant.

Image123:
You need deliverance of the TB Joshua form.

Image123:
Please, frosb and the crew, correct this guy for me. He may not listen to me.

make your post shorter.

Image123:
Fortunately, believers will never die according to Jesus.
Joh 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.


sorry about length. i try to explain and also to touch everything said instead of picking and choosing sentences without considering context. i will change

dont you like this scripture? :

"The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence." (Psalm 115:17).

Bidam: You mean they actually gave their necks willingly to be slaughtered like rams by boko haram? abegi go siddon..u no get talk. To answer your questions lets start with what happened to the Repentant Thief on the Cross (Luke 23:32-34, 39-43): As they hung on their respective crosses, one of the thieves who was crucified with Him turned to Jesus with a repentant heart saying, “Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom”. Christ’s response was to say, “Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in Paradise” (see Luke 23:39-43).

We know that at the time of His death the Lord Jesus descended to the “heart of the earth” where He stayed for three days and three nights (Matt. 12:40) “and preached to the spirits in prison” (I Pet. 3:19). This tells us that up to the time of Christ’s sacrifice for the sins of the world, “Paradise” was in the heart of the earth. He promised the repentant thief they would be together in Paradise that very day.

Oh yes those apostles died a§ matyrs....there deaths were fashioned in the likeness of that of there master(Jesus)...listen to what paul says in phillipians 3:9-10
___________________________
9 And be found in him, not having mine own
righteousness, which is of the law, but that
which is through the faith of Christ, the
righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of
his resurrection, and the fellowship of his
sufferings,
being made conformable unto
his death ;...........
____________________________

The souls of tho§e underneath that. SymbÓlic altar signifies the kind of death those faithfuls under went.... The "altar" is not paradise......


I wanna know if you are saying that paradise is sheol??........
PlÉase tell me whe®e paradisÉ is located.....it seems you don't know.......Jesus went to "hell"
That day along with the thief ......I wonder how HELL turned out to be paradise.......if you had not noticed Jesus was aSsuring that thief that he'll be ressurected when the end comes.....because neither Jesus nor the thief went to paradise that day..........smh!!!!.....

Also not until Jesus was ressurected did he go preach to the spirits in prison..for you to assume that Jesus while in the grave escaped to go visit the spirits in prison goes against the scriptures...........Jesus was no where to be found other than the tomb he was in for 3days........Jesus was ressurected before he gained consciousness and was able to visit the spirits in prison.............

Bidam:
This is the same place that is referred to as Abraham’s Bosom in Luke 16:22. From II Corinthians we know that Paradise is now located in “the third heaven” (see II Cor. 12:1-4). Obviously this abode of the saved dead was moved from the innermost parts, or the heart, of the earth to the heavenly abode of God. Paradise is the place where the souls of the redeemed reside awaiting the resurrection. Before the price of their redemption was paid on the cross, it was located in the heart of the earth. But, after the full payment was made, it was relocated to the third heaven, or the Heaven of heavens, where God is. There they wait in God’s presence for the time of their resurrection.

I thought the souls of GOOD people fly to heaven while the souls of bad persons immediately transit to hell fire to burn.....not so??......from your exegesis of those scriptures we can conclude that heaven where the soul of righteous persons will go has now turned out to be" hell" which Jesus went to for 3 days??........smh!!!.....you see why we say the story of the rich man and lazarus is just a parable and nothing more??...........was abraham in hell from the parable of the rich man and lazarus??....................Jesus didn't go to paradise immediately after his death,rather Jesus went to hades,sheol,grave etc........Jesus was inactive,dead and unconscious...that is why he was ressurected.....Yahweh won't waste his time ressurecting one whose soul is already perambulating.......you guys are a making a mockery of the hope of ressurection....

And as for the 2corinthians 12:1-4 you quoted it was paul himself that had that experience and not some deady body wey soul escape from........

Bidam:
The souls of all of the redeemed who have died since Jesus Christ’s resurrection have entered into God’s presence there as to be “absent from the body” is to be “present with the Lord” (see II Cor. 5:6-.

And how does thi§ prove that when a man dies his soul either goes to heaven or HELL fire before he is ressurected??.......smh!!!...

@tislight
you'll never get or understand what I said or what anybody said if you continue in such bizarre way of cutting posts into incomplete phrases and attacking them. Why not take your time to read through, then answer back objectively. You're not even giving ears for a complete sentence before you quote and comment,its impossible to discuss that way. And your posts are also long by the way. i can most easily answer in one liners and boring trites if that's what will make you happier.

ijawkid:


Oh yes those apostles died a§ matyrs....there deaths were fashioned in the likeness of that of there master(Jesus)...listen to what paul says in phillipians 3:9-10
___________________________
9 And be found in him, not having mine own
righteousness, which is of the law, but that
which is through the faith of Christ, the
righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of
his resurrection, and the fellowship of his
sufferings,
being made conformable unto
his death ;...........
____________________________

The souls of tho§e underneath that. SymbÓlic altar signifies the kind of death those faithfuls under went.... The "altar" is not paradise......


I wanna know if you are saying that paradise is sheol??........
PlÉase tell me whe®e paradisÉ is located.....it seems you don't know.......Jesus went to "hell"
That day along with the thief ......I wonder how HELL turned out to be paradise.......if you had not noticed Jesus was aSsuring that thief that he'll be ressurected when the end comes.....because neither Jesus nor the thief went to paradise that day..........smh!!!!.....

Also not until Jesus was ressurected did he go preach to the spirits in prison..for you to assume that Jesus while in the grave escaped to go visit the spirits in prison goes against the scriptures...........Jesus was no where to be found other than the tomb he was in for 3days........Jesus was ressurected before he gained consciousness and was able to visit the spirits in prison.............



I thought the souls of GOOD people fly to heaven while the souls of bad persons immediately transit to hell fire to burn.....not so??......from your exegesis of those scriptures we can conclude that heaven where the soul of righteous persons will go has now turned out to be" hell" which Jesus went to for 3 days??........smh!!!.....you see why we say the story of the rich man and lazarus is just a parable and nothing more??...........was abraham in hell from the parable of the rich man and lazarus??....................Jesus didn't go to paradise immediately after his death,rather Jesus went to hades,sheol,grave etc........Jesus was inactive,dead and unconscious...that is why he was ressurected.....Yahweh won't waste his time ressurecting one whose soul is already perambulating.......you guys are a making a mockery of the hope of ressurection....

And as for the 2corinthians 12:1-4 you quoted it was paul himself that had that experience and not some deady body wey soul escape from........




And how does thi§ prove that when a man dies his soul either goes to heaven or HELL fire before he is ressurected??.......smh!!!...

from ur statements..it goes to show how far you have wandered away from the faith..you have now resorted to mixing truths and falsehoods abi?i will give u a lengthy explanations..later..make i sleep abeg

@Image123
U wont be able to stand it for long here when name calling starts.
Stop refering to those answering u objectively as "gang" (in yr expression-"frosbel and his gang" )...

Its not about what makes sense. ITS ABOUT WHAT YR BIBLE SAYS.

What really is yr issue? Why repeating issues? Even citing Rev 14vs 11 is very annoying! Its the same term and expression used for the then destruction of Sodom (Jude 7) "eternal fire", "eternal torment" etc and SODOM IS NOT BURNING TODAY! (WHICH THE OP LISTED!) When u read a verse in yr bible-research on what the verse really means before coming here and re-listing bible verses.

Instead of u asking what a term or verse means, u throw it up again, against the explanation of the term. Pathetic.

ijawkid:


Oh yes those apostles died a§ matyrs....there deaths were fashioned in the likeness of that of there master(Jesus)...listen to what paul says in phillipians 3:9-10
___________________________
9 And be found in him, not having mine own
righteousness, which is of the law, but that
which is through the faith of Christ, the
righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of
his resurrection, and the fellowship of his
sufferings,
being made conformable unto
his death ;...........
____________________________

The souls of tho§e underneath that. SymbÓlic altar signifies the kind of death those faithfuls under went.... The "altar" is not paradise......


I wanna know if you are saying that paradise is sheol??........
PlÉase tell me whe®e paradisÉ is located.....it seems you don't know.......Jesus went to "hell"
That day along with the thief ......I wonder how HELL turned out to be paradise.......if you had not noticed Jesus was aSsuring that thief that he'll be ressurected when the end comes.....because neither Jesus nor the thief went to paradise that day..........smh!!!!.....

Also not until Jesus was ressurected did he go preach to the spirits in prison..for you to assume that Jesus while in the grave escaped to go visit the spirits in prison goes against the scriptures...........Jesus was no where to be found other than the tomb he was in for 3days........Jesus was ressurected before he gained consciousness and was able to visit the spirits in prison.............



I thought the souls of GOOD people fly to heaven while the souls of bad persons immediately transit to hell fire to burn.....not so??......from your exegesis of those scriptures we can conclude that heaven where the soul of righteous persons will go has now turned out to be" hell" which Jesus went to for 3 days??........smh!!!.....you see why we say the story of the rich man and lazarus is just a parable and nothing more??...........was abraham in hell from the parable of the rich man and lazarus??....................Jesus didn't go to paradise immediately after his death,rather Jesus went to hades,sheol,grave etc........Jesus was inactive,dead and unconscious...that is why he was ressurected.....Yahweh won't waste his time ressurecting one whose soul is already perambulating.......you guys are a making a mockery of the hope of ressurection....

And as for the 2corinthians 12:1-4 you quoted it was paul himself that had that experience and not some deady body wey soul escape from........




And how does thi§ prove that when a man dies his soul either goes to heaven or HELL fire before he is ressurected??.......smh!!!...

@ the emboldened...ofcos i know that, the joke was actually on you dumb head....did i mention altar as paradise in my post this lies don dey too much sha....i mention that fact in my post maybe you were too blind in marshaling your arguments to notice...i brought scriptures to prove my points, stop insinuating what Jesus said...has "today turned to that day"..see what JESUS said...let me use other translations so you wont do 419....
New International Version (©1984)
Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
New Living Translation (©2007)
And Jesus replied, "I assure you,[b] today you will be with me in paradise."

English Standard Version (©2001)[/b]
And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you sha[/b]ll be with Me in Paradise."

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
And He said to him, [b]"I assure you: Today you will be with Me in paradise."

International Standard Version (©2012)
Jesus told him, "I tell you with certainty, today you will be with me in Paradise."

... these are false(fallacy)...lemme quote again the translations so you won't miss the gist, be cos e be like say u no dey see(pharisee)....mat 12:40 connects 1 pet 3:19 Matthew 12:40 (King James Version)


Matthew 12:40
King James Version (KJV)
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.[/b]the bible said he died on the cross..did the bible tell us he died in the heart of the earth? if it did, pls show me the scripture. 1 pet 3 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, [b]that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19[b] By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
[/b]
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

it was immediately after death that the resurrection power hit the grave he was laid bro... and not after being unconscious for 3 days and three nights as you would have us believe..be cos the next verse stated clearly what he went to do within those three days and 3 nights. you can now see your lies and deceptions from the pit of hell abi....and its like you are having a hard time differentiating between spirit, soul and body..abegi go for foundational studies on that..

Bidam: @ the emboldened...ofcos i know that, the joke was actually on you dumb head

exemplary Christian behavior !!

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
And He said to him, "I assure you: Today you will be with Me in paradise."

International Standard Version (©2012)
Jesus told him, "I tell you with certainty, today you will be with me in Paradise."

... these are false(fallacy)...lemme quote again the translations so you won't miss the gist, be cos e be like say u no dey see(pharisee)....mat 12:40 connects 1 pet 3:19 Matthew 12:40 (King James Version)

You ignorance of scripture is very stark.

How can the thief be with him in Paradise on the same day when the body of JESUS was laid to rest in the grave ? Jesus was dead for 3 days , totally dead, otherwise why on earth will GOD want to raise Lord Jesus from the dead, if he was not dead but was somewhere alive and well.

Can you see how this doctrine of demons starts to fall apart, defying the purpose of the resurrection and insinuating rather strange ideas concerning the real significance of death and it's relation to the grave.

Jesus died for 3 days and was resurrected , showing the power of GOD to deliver even from death and also corroborating the experience of Lazarus , which again was by the Power of GOD displayed through Jesus Christ his SON.

"40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." -Matthew 12:40

If this verse does not agree with the prophecy of JESUS regrading his death and burial and subsequent resurrection I don't know what else does.

40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.[/b]the bible said he died on the cross..did the bible tell us he died in the heart of the earth? if it did, pls show me the scripture.

wow, mate you need to read your bible again, you have sorely missed the meaning of what you just wrote above.

The point is that he was dead and buried for 3 days and was raised up on the third day.

1 pet 3 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19[b] By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1. but quickened by the Spirit:
2. By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
3. in the days of Noah
4. Qualification with 8, that is , after the Spirit preached to the prisoners of sin, only 8 souls were saved.

Let me explain this to you.

Jesus Christ was raised by the Spirit of GOD, it was this same Spirit that preached to the disobedient sinners in the time of Noah , using Noah as the vessel for communicating the message of salvation.

Jesus Christ himself did not preach to anyone during Noah's time, it was the Spirit as clarified in this verse of scripture.

And sinners are indeed prisoners of sin as the people of the world today are and the people of Noah's days were as well.

For example :

Some sat in darkness, in utter darkness,
prisoners suffering in iron chains,
11 because they rebelled against God’s commands
and despised the plans of the Most High.
12 So he subjected them to bitter labor;
they stumbled, and there was no one to help.
13 Then they cried to the Lord in their trouble,
and he saved them from their distress.
14 He brought them out of darkness, the utter darkness,
and broke away their chains. - Psalm 107:10-14


or


"16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin," - Romans 6:16 - 17b


Therefore the spirits in prison were the sinners who lived at that time and for whom God was grieved because of their wicked activities.

"5The Lord saw how great man’s wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. 6The Lord was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain." - Genesis 6:6

it was immediately after death that the resurrection power hit the grave he was laid bro...

lol, this is just nonsense and totally unscriptural.

Resurrection means to bring back to life. Jesus Christ was brought back to live on the 3rd day not on the 1st day. The thief was dead and so was our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was raised from the dead as the ONLY MAN from time immemorial to experience such a resounding victory over MAN's enemy , DEATH. This victory will be extended to all of mankind who embrace the gospel of grace, repent from their sins and submit to Yahweh through Christ JESUS.

"And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy." - Colossians 1:18

and not after being unconscious for 3 days and three nights as you would have us believe..be cos the next verse stated clearly what he went to do within those three days and 3 nights. you can now see your lies and deceptions from the pit of hell abi....and its like you are having a hard time differentiating between spirit, soul and body..abegi go for foundational studies on that..

You are mocking your ignorance and I really pity you, you need to start slowing down and reading the bible , comparing scripture with scripture , instead of hasty conclusions based on half-baked study.

frosbel:






How can the thief be with him in Paradise on the same day when the body of JESUS was laid to rest in the grave ? Jesus was dead for 3 days , totally dead, otherwise why on earth will GOD want to raise Lord Jesus from the dead, if he was not dead but was somewhere alive and well.

Can you see how this doctrine of demons starts to fall apart, defying the purpose of the resurrection and insinuating rather strange ideas concerning the real significance of death and it's relation to the grave.

Jesus died for 3 days and was resurrected , showing the power of GOD to deliver even from death and also corroborating the experience of Lazarus , which again was by the Power of GOD displayed through Jesus Christ his SON.

"40[b] For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish[/b], so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." -Matthew 12:40

If this verse does not agree with the prophecy of JESUS regrading his death and burial and subsequent resurrection I don't know what else does.




wow, mate you need to read your bible again, you have sorely missed the meaning of what you just wrote above.

The point is that he was dead and buried for 3 days and was raised up on the third day.




1. but quickened by the Spirit:
2. By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
3. in the days of Noah
4. Qualification with 8, that is , after the Spirit preached to the prisoners of sin, only 8 souls were saved.

Let me explain this to you.

Jesus Christ was raised by the Spirit of GOD, it was this same Spirit that preached to the disobedient sinners in the time of Noah , using Noah as the vessel for communicating the message of salvation.

Jesus Christ himself did not preach to anyone during Noah's time, it was the Spirit as clarified in this verse of scripture.

And sinners are indeed prisoners of sin as the people of the world today are and the people of Noah's days were as well.

For example :

Some sat in darkness, in utter darkness,
prisoners suffering in iron chains,
11[b] because they rebelled against God’s commands
and despised the plans of the Most High.
12 So he subjected them to bitter labor;
they stumbled, and there was no one to help.
13 Then they cried to the Lord in their trouble,
and he saved them from their distress.
14 He brought them out of darkness, the utter darkness,
and broke away their chains.[/b] - Psalm 107:10-14


or


"16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin," - Romans 6:16 - 17b


Therefore the spirits in prison were the sinners who lived at that time and for whom God was grieved because of their wicked activities.

"5The Lord saw how great man’s wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. 6The Lord was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain." - Genesis 6:6





lol, this is just nonsense and totally unscriptural.

Resurrection means to bring back to life. Jesus Christ was brought back to live on the 3rd day not on the 1st day. The thief was dead and so was our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was raised from the dead as the ONLY MAN from time immemorial to experience such a resounding victory over MAN's enemy , DEATH. This victory will be extended to all of mankind who embrace the gospel of grace, repent from their sins and submit to Yahweh through Christ JESUS.

"And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy." - Colossians 1:18



You a[b]re mocking your ignorance and I really pity you, you need to start slowing down and reading the bible , comparing scripture with scripture , instead of hasty conclusions based on half-baked study.
[/b]

OK..the rescuer has arrived..and why not? HE said " I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this? John 11:25-26"... OK i now see to buttress your demonic doctrines that Jesus was a mere man abi? WAS JONAH DEAD IN THE BELLY OF THE FISH?? DO YOU THINK JESUS WAS STUPID TO HAVE USED THAT ANALOGY?? IT IS TO STOP PPLE LIKE YOU FROM CREATING WRONG DOCTRINES IN THE CHURCH.
.......My sincere apology frosbel, you actually are the one who need the Holy Spirit to interprete the Bible for you..... Blasphemy of the highest order...this is heresy, pls show me from scriptures where the Holy Spirit was in believers in the OT APART FROM WHEN JESUS BREATHE ON THEM...JOHN 20:22
New International Version (©1984)
And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
New Living Translation (©2007)
Then he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit.

STOP!!!quoting irrelevancy to state your nonsensity..wat has psalm 107:10-14 got to do with 1 pet 3:18-19? Did that particular scripture mentioned Jesus going to the prison(grave) to bring them out if actually you sincerely read vs 12 to 13 I'd rather pity you and your followers you've poisoned with heresies here on nairaland...your heretic teachings is beginning to make you mad...MAY GOD IN HIS INFINITE MERCY HELP YOU..AMEN...I ALREADY COMPARED MAT 12:40 TO 1 PET 3:19 DEAL WITH IT MATE.

Bidam: OK..the rescuer has arrived..and why not? HE said " I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this? John 11:25-26"... OK i now see to buttress your demonic doctrines that Jesus was a mere man abi? WAS JONAH DEAD IN THE BELLY OF THE FISH?? DO YOU THINK JESUS WAS STUPID TO HAVE USED THAT ANALOGY?? IT IS TO STOP PPLE LIKE YOU FROM CREATING WRONG DOCTRINES IN THE CHURCH.
.......My sincere apology frosbel, you actually are the one who need the Holy Spirit to interprete the Bible for you..... Blasphemy of the highest order...this is heresy, pls show me from scriptures where the Holy Spirit was in believers in the OT APART FROM WHEN JESUS BREATHE ON THEM...JOHN 20:22
New International Version (©1984)
And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
New Living Translation (©2007)
Then he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit.

STOP!!!quoting irrelevancy to state your nonsensity..wat has psalm 107:10-14 got to do with 1 pet 3:18-19? Did that particular scripture mentioned Jesus going to the prison(grave) to bring them out if actually you sincerely read vs 12 to 13 I'd rather pity you and your followers you've poisoned with heresies here on nairaland...your heretic teachings is beginning to make you mad...MAY GOD IN HIS INFINITE MERCY HELP YOU..AMEN...I ALREADY COMPARED MAT 12:40 TO 1 PET 3:19 DEAL WITH IT MATE.

Incoherent and incomprehensible , please rephrase !

[quote author=frosb
1. but quickened by the Spirit:
2. By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
3. in the days of Noah
4. Qualification with 8, that is , after the Spirit preached to the prisoners of sin, only 8 souls were saved.

Let me explain this to you.

Jesus Christ was raised by the Spirit of GOD, it was this same Spirit that preached to the disobedient sinners in the time of Noah , using Noah as the vessel for communicating the message of salvation.

Jesus Christ himself did not preach to anyone during Noah's time, it was the Spirit as clarified in this verse of scripture.

And sinners are indeed prisoners of sin as the people of the world today are and the people of Noah's days were as well.
[/quote] Blasphemy of the highest order...this is heresy, pls show me from scriptures where the Holy Spirit was in believers in the OT APART FROM WHEN JESUS BREATHE ON THEM...JOHN 20:22
New International Version (©1984)
And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
New Living Translation (©2007)
Then he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit.

frosbel:

exemplary Christian behavior !!





You ignorance of scripture is very stark.

How can the thief be with him in Paradise on the same day when the body of JESUS was laid to rest in the grave ? Jesus was dead for 3 days , totally dead, otherwise why on earth will GOD want to raise Lord Jesus from the dead, if he was not dead but was somewhere alive and well.

Can you see how this doctrine of demons starts to fall apart, defying the purpose of the resurrection and insinuating rather strange ideas concerning the real significance of death and it's relation to the grave.

Jesus died for 3 days and was resurrected , showing the power of GOD to deliver even from death and also corroborating the experience of Lazarus , which again was by the Power of GOD displayed through Jesus Christ his SON.

"40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." -Matthew 12:40

If this verse does not agree with the prophecy of JESUS regrading his death and burial and subsequent resurrection I don't know what else does.




wow, mate you need to read your bible again, you have sorely missed the meaning of what you just wrote above.

The point is that he was dead and buried for 3 days and was raised up on the third day.




1. but quickened by the Spirit:
2. By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
3. in the days of Noah
4. Qualification with 8, that is , after the Spirit preached to the prisoners of sin, only 8 souls were saved.

Let me explain this to you.

Jesus Christ was raised by the Spirit of GOD, it was this same Spirit that preached to the disobedient sinners in the time of Noah , using Noah as the vessel for communicating the message of salvation.

Jesus Christ himself did not preach to anyone during Noah's time, it was the Spirit as clarified in this verse of scripture.

And sinners are indeed prisoners of sin as the people of the world today are and the people of Noah's days were as well.

For example :

Some sat in darkness, in utter darkness,
prisoners suffering in iron chains,
11 because they rebelled against God’s commands
and despised the plans of the Most High.
12 So he subjected them to bitter labor;
they stumbled, and there was no one to help.
13 Then they cried to the Lord in their trouble,
and he saved them from their distress.
14 He brought them out of darkness, the utter darkness,
and broke away their chains. - Psalm 107:10-14


or


"16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin," - Romans 6:16 - 17b


Therefore the spirits in prison were the sinners who lived at that time and for whom God was grieved because of their wicked activities.

"5The Lord saw how great man’s wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. 6The Lord was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain." - Genesis 6:6





lol, this is just nonsense and totally unscriptural.

Resurrection means to bring back to life. Jesus Christ was brought back to live on the 3rd day not on the 1st day. The thief was dead and so was our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was raised from the dead as the ONLY MAN from time immemorial to experience such a resounding victory over MAN's enemy , DEATH. This victory will be extended to all of mankind who embrace the gospel of grace, repent from their sins and submit to Yahweh through Christ JESUS.

"And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy." - Colossians 1:18



You are mocking your ignorance and I really pity you, you need to start slowing down and reading the bible , comparing scripture with scripture , instead of hasty conclusions based on half-baked study.

OK..the rescuer has arrived..and why not? HE said " I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this? John 11:25-26"... OK i now see to buttress your demonic doctrines that Jesus was a mere man abi? WAS JONAH DEAD IN THE BELLY OF THE FISH?? DO YOU THINK JESUS WAS silly TO HAVE USED THAT ANALOGY?? IT IS TO STOP PPLE LIKE YOU FROM CREATING WRONG DOCTRINES IN THE CHURCH.
.......My sincere apology frosbel, you actually are the one who need the Holy Spirit to interprete the Bible for you.

Bidam: OK..the rescuer has arrived..and why not? HE said " I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this? John 11:25-26"... OK i now see to buttress your demonic doctrines that Jesus was a mere man abi? WAS JONAH DEAD IN THE BELLY OF THE FISH?? DO YOU THINK JESUS WAS silly TO HAVE USED THAT ANALOGY?? IT IS TO STOP PPLE LIKE YOU FROM CREATING WRONG DOCTRINES IN THE CHURCH.
.......My sincere apology frosbel, you actually are the one who need the Holy Spirit to interprete the Bible for you.

What else can we expect from MOG followers, you are the people that put other people off Christianity , with your false doctrines and emotional tantrums.

This is just sad. The painful reality of a hard "unknown" truth versus "what they have always taught us".
Please when studying yr bible-especially in "teaching passages" use a REFERENCE bible and as much as possible, look for the interpretation of given words or phrases from the Greek and Hebrew translation. U will be shocked to find out that some of yr "popular" scriptures are not what they are thought to mean.

What is happening here is just funny. After thirty questions which were mostly taken from research, u guys are just attacking the OP with verses that mostly agree to what the OP said IF INTERPRETED. Una dey even attack una selves now.
The Holy spirit has all the ability to interprete scripture but He can only do that to an independent mind. Many people are totally sold to the way their given churches have interpreted the bible.

deebrain: @Image123
U wont be able to stand it for long here when name calling starts.
Stop refering to those answering u objectively as "gang" (in yr expression-"frosbel and his gang" )...

Its not about what makes sense. ITS ABOUT WHAT YR BIBLE SAYS.

What really is yr issue? Why repeating issues? Even citing Rev 14vs 11 is very annoying! Its the same term and expression used for the then destruction of Sodom (Jude 7) "eternal fire", "eternal torment" etc and SODOM IS NOT BURNING TODAY! (WHICH THE OP LISTED!) When u read a verse in yr bible-research on what the verse really means before coming here and re-listing bible verses.

Instead of u asking what a term or verse means, u throw it up again, against the explanation of the term. Pathetic.

If you want to call me names, no need to threaten me about it. i felt frosb and the gang was easier and easy to depict. i didn't say "frosb and HIS gang". It's easier than mentioning all your names, and i didn't want to coin stuff like anti-hell. But on putting myself in your shoes, i realise no real christian would want to be so associated with frosb. I'm truly sorry. I wasn't initially particular about what makes sense, i'm only throwing back the argument that folks give that it doesn't make sense for God to punish people forever. So you agree that your position on judgement is senseless? My Bible does not say that God will raise the dead sinners and kill them again. My Bible says,
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

And
Rev 4:10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb forever and ever.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign forever and ever.
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
These scripture passages show us plainly from the same writer the meaning of and what he meant by "forever and ever"
citing Rev 14vs 11 is very annoying to you? i should not quote Bible again, you want me to quote who, pastors? Rev 14v11 tells us without mincing words what will happen to sinners. Love it or hate it, THERE WILL BE weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Sodom and Gomorrah are suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. If that's had for you to believe, it's not my fault. You can ask Jesus to increase your faith. Sodom and Gomorrah refers to the inhabitants, not just the land. Just like Israel refers to the inhabitants of Israel, not just the land.
Exo 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Isa 19:14 The LORD hath mingled a perverse spirit in the midst thereof: and they have caused Egypt to err in every work thereof, as a drunken man staggereth in his vomit.
Isa 16:6 We have heard of the pride of Moab; he is very proud: even of his haughtiness, and his pride, and his wrath: but his lies shall not be so.
All the bolded above refer to the inhabitants of those places. It is rthe same thing in Jude 7 and in the places Jesus talked of Sodom and Gomorrah. It is referring there to the resurrection of the people/inhabitants of sodom. Jude 7 actually proves that sinners are suffering in hell awaiting judgement, just like some angels are suffering in hell awaiting judgement.
Jud 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. PAST
Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. PRESENT
Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffer[b]ing[/b] the vengeance of eternal fire. PRESENT
Jud 1:8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. PRESENT
Notice the change in tenses from past to present in the verses above. Please, don't fight the facts or castigate versions, translations and the messenger(me). Do a sincere and prayerful study instead of aiming for winning the argument or having the last word.
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Image123:

If you want to call me names, no need to threaten me about it. i felt frosb and the gang was easier and easy to depict. i didn't say "frosb and HIS gang". It's easier than mentioning all your names, and i didn't want to coin stuff like anti-hell. But on putting myself in your shoes, i realise no real christian would want to be so associated with frosb. I'm truly sorry. I wasn't initially particular about what makes sense, i'm only throwing back the argument that folks give that it doesn't make sense for God to punish people forever. So you agree that your position on judgement is senseless? My Bible does not say that God will raise the dead sinners and kill them again. My Bible says,

Anyone who is not disturbed by this doctrine of demons needs urgent psychiatric evaluation.

To suggest that people will be in an oven operating at 2000 degrees if not more , and for all eternity , borders on sadism and is very unscriptural.

According to this heresy which you have embraced like a robot, death will never be destroyed and the dead will be dying for all eternity , complete with immortal souls , though there is no such thing as an immortal soul in the bible for the unsaved.

Carry out with your numerous heresies, I will keep pointing them out .

@Image123

Now i dont know frosbel and if he is not a christian-it is his cup of tea. And personally, im not looking for an award in this thread. I dont typically like the religious section because its more of attacking people and pastors using bible passages rather than people learning from the bible.
Im not one of u religious folks. Im anti-religious. Christianity is more of RELATIONSHIP than religion. U are in an affair and any relationship that does not enjoy COMMUNICATION between the two (where they question themselves on things they are bothered about) will be off. In a true love relationship, u do things because u recognize u are a stake holder in the affair AND NOT BECAUSE U WILL BE DUMPED-IT IS VERY GENIUNE.

What got me attracted to this thread is (which u should confirm from yr STUDY bible) is frosbel exposed something that many preachers supposedly know but would not want to preach about because of how weak christians may justify backsliding. The true meaning of eternal torment and the lake of fire. He did not just take the term as it was but looked for what Jesus or Isaiah or John actually said when teaching about the term.

In the original versions (greece) of yr bible every portion u listed from Revelation chapters 14 and 20 and others (as a matter of fact every place where "smoke will rise forever and not be quenched" is used or "be tormented day and night forever and ever"), it uses the phrase "as in Gehenna" or simply"Gehenna". This was a place (made popular in greece empire)where things were burnt up and there where people whowere paid to ensure that things dumped there where burnt to bits by reheating the place so there was no time the place was not in flames and smoking. NOTHING SURVIVED GEHENNA.

In the parable of lazarus and the rich man, Jesus used the term "Hades" or "Hell" a place known for a terrible smell and fire. It was not really a place of destruction but a place of disgust and torment (it did not really exist physically so people coined it into a place bad people go in death).

Now anyplace u see God "reigning forever" or "worship Him forever and ever" etc...that is where it was used as it was. That was the source of hope and impression that life with all challenges was temporary. That there was going to be a time of permanent enjoyment with yr creator who on His own lives forever and people with Him would also live forever.

Now most known bibles carefully write the texts of the lake of fire (or hell fire) leaving its comparison to Gehenna out of it-mostly based on personal reasons of the authors. And that is where the confusion comes today. The hard hidden truth versus what "they told us". Its people that like to drive people to a place of fear before preaching the gospel that end up bringing more confusion.

People should stop emphasising on hell.

@image123

And i did not say that "the bible says that God resurrected people just to kill them again". I was trying to draw something out from what John saw in his revelation to make him give the term "Second death".

[quote author=deebrain]@Image123

Now i dont know frosbel and if he is not a christian-it is his cup of tea.

First of all , I am used to slander by members of the orthodox Christian community, i.e those who believe in all the dogmas passed down to them by the catholic church and so called early 'church fathers' who were mostly scholars influenced with platonic philosophy.

I like to think of myself as a follower of Jesus Christ , which means I have received the born again experience, attaining to higher standards of holiness and called by JESUS Christ to follow him and preach the gospel. I believe in his death , resurrection and second coming .

Don't listen to image123, if his type cannot win an argument they will resort to name calling and even outright insults.

Now most known bibles carefully write the texts of the lake of fire (or hell fire) leaving its comparison to Gehenna out of it-mostly based on personal reasons of the authors. And that is where the confusion comes today. The hard hidden truth versus what "they told us". Its people that like to drive people to a place of fear before preaching the gospel that end up bringing more confusion.

People should stop emphasising on hell.

bottom line is that the lake of fire will exist at a future date for the purpose of putting to death all the wicked , hence the term second death.

Our gospel should be repent and live or rebel and die.

However , the orthodox or should we say apostate church , has used the fear of hell fire to either bring in new members who are ignorant on this subject or to prevent others from leaving.

This was my experience with deeperlife etc.

I once had a deeper life pastor come to my house and subject me the the horror story of Mary Baxter's visions and testimony regarding HELL. This put more fear into me and made it impossible to truly LOVE GOD .

Salvation can never be said to be a free gift if the rejection of it is a vindictive punishment in the lake of a fiery fire for all eternity. On the other hand, salvation will be a free gift of eternal life if the opposite of it is the absence of eternal life.

God is LOVE , he is not in the fear and torment business.

"There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." - 1 John 4:18

Image123: @tislight
you'll never get or understand what I said or what anybody said if you continue in such bizarre way of cutting posts into incomplete phrases and attacking them. Why not take your time to read through, then answer back objectively. You're not even giving ears for a complete sentence before you quote and comment,its impossible to discuss that way. And your posts are also long by the way. i can most easily answer in one liners and boring trites if that's what will make you happier.

my post is long because i was replying to a long post.

Bidam: @ the emboldened...ofcos i know that, the joke was actually on you dumb head....did i mention altar as paradise in my post this lies don dey too much sha....i mention that fact in my post maybe you were too blind in marshaling your arguments to notice...i brought scriptures to prove my points, stop insinuating what Jesus said...has "today turned to that day"..see what JESUS said...let me use other translations so you wont do 419....
New International Version (©1984)
Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
New Living Translation (©2007)
And Jesus replied, "I assure you,[b] today you will be with me in paradise."

English Standard Version (©2001)[/b]
And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you sha[/b]ll be with Me in Paradise."

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
And He said to him, [b]"I assure you: Today you will be with Me in paradise."

International Standard Version (©2012)
Jesus told him, "I tell you with certainty, today you will be with me in Paradise."

... these are false(fallacy)...lemme quote again the translations so you won't miss the gist, be cos e be like say u no dey see(pharisee)....mat 12:40 connects 1 pet 3:19 Matthew 12:40 (King James Version)


Matthew 12:40
King James Version (KJV)
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.[/b]the bible said he died on the cross..did the bible tell us he died in the heart of the earth? if it did, pls show me the scripture. 1 pet 3 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, [b]that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19[b] By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
[/b]
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

it was immediately after death that the resurrection power hit the grave he was laid bro... and not after being unconscious for 3 days and three nights as you would have us believe..be cos the next verse stated clearly what he went to do within those three days and 3 nights. you can now see your lies and deceptions from the pit of hell abi....and its like you are having a hard time differentiating between spirit, soul and body..abegi go for foundational studies on that..

when Ijawkid will man handle you with all this your "nursery rhyme" your eyes go clear.

Lol.

@ frosbel

And yr rivalry with these people have turned this thread into a free for all fight. Scriptures thrown aimlessly everywhere while the main questions not answered. The crises of bible interpretation between the greek/hebrew and english has come to this place. Those that have gone to standard seminaries and colleges KNOW THE TRUTHS OF YR QUESTIONS BUT THEY HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING THAT THESE TRUTHS ARE NOT FOR THE PULPIT OR FOR EVANGELISM.

Those with sincere zeal for evangelism (and ofcourse those that cant wait to see their brothers who they have grudge against, burning alive), very understandably, will likely fight u in this thread.

Maybe yr questions should not have been posted to this open forum. But im wondering, does it mean that we christians dont study? The things people are posting really shocks me. Before u know it, atheists will come here and start talking crap.