ijawkid:
How do the Jews pray and how do pagans pray??.........is it the same??.....oya start answering.........remember adopting the ways of the pagans is what I'm on.......

there's no special approach. it's either you knee, stand, sit e.t.c and non of this approach was unique to either Jews or pagans. God did not tell the Jews not to knee when praying because it was also a pagan way, he did not tell the Jews not to offer bulls as burnt offering because Baal worshipers also offer bulls in worship. So we need to be careful the way we designate things as either pagan (and unacceptable) vs. Holy and acceptable. If sango worshipers eat barbecued chicken as part of their worship, people like you and truthislight will immediately categorize such activity as pagan and unacceptable. am happy you people are not God, otherwise there will be nothing left to eat

ijawkid:
What if an isrealite borrowed the pattern of the pagans in prayer to God,would God accept it??.........

there is nothing new to borrow.

Zikkyy:

there's no special approach. it's either you knee, stand, sit e.t.c and non of this approach was unique to either Jews or pagans. God did not tell the Jews not to knee when praying because it was also a pagan way, he did not tell the Jews not to offer bulls as burnt offering because Baal worshipers also offer bulls in worship. So we need to be careful the way we designate things as either pagan (and unacceptable) vs. Holy and acceptable. If sango worshipers eat barbecued chicken as part of their worship, people like you and truthislight will immediately categorize such activity as pagan and unacceptable. am happy you people are not God, otherwise there will be nothing left to eat

Now your problem is the animals itself.......I am talking about adopting pagan customs and practices............

Pagans used animals in there scarifice but ofcourse there pattern of worshipping there gods with those animals were exclusive to them(the pagans) and Gods servants were not to imitate such patterns............


If Sango worshippers eat barbecued chicken during there festivals as a custom and I as a christian adopt both the festival,customs and its pattern and tie it up with Jesus ,how would Jesus feel??....

Hope you see what I mean??the chicken is not even the issue,rather the pagan custom and its rites is what is the bane here......easter and its customs has no dealings with our master Jesus but with paganism...and encyclopedias have shown you,but you would rather not listen.....

Zikkyy:

there is nothing new to borrow.

Sure??............

ijawkid:
Come announce wether you dey do or not....

i still dey think am

ijawkid:
If you can't from the scriptures discern what is clean and unclean then maybe you need to be ready to learn how to do that........

it's not about me being able to interpret. dropping bible references without interpretation is not ideal.

ijawkid:
Adopting a pagan observance and clinging it to Jesus is UNCLEAN..............

i don't think this was the message in the 2 Corinthians verse you posted. if something is unclean, its unclean whether you 'cling' it to Jesus or not. i consider anything sinful as unclean. you don't wait till you 'cling' it to Jesus before it becomes unclean.

ijawkid:
Of which is EASTER is one of it.......

you need to clarify the easter you have in mind. is it ishtar (spring festival), or is it easter (pascha, thanks to Mr. Ube ) the celebration of Jesus resurection? which one?

ijawkid:
Hehehehe....and what is that reason??........

you dey ask again is it not for worship? abi una dey use kingdom hall as bar (a.k.a. beer parlour ) on part time?

ijawkid:
Remember we are on do not adopt the ways of the pagans.....God always drew this clear line between being godly and following the ways of pagans.......

I agree with you that it is God that draws the line and not man drawing the line. That's why i always say we should consider the fact that pagans and Christians live in the same society. categorizing a practice as pagan because it was done by a pagan is not ideal. Its safer to assess an activity or action using God's law. if something is sinful then it is not Godly, whether performed by a pagan or by a Christian.

ijawkid:
God would detest cakes and rabbits that are eaten for the sake of easter celebration........the clause there is easter(which is pagan)............

i believe you refers to ishtar or eaostre you stated something here which you have always been against. It is the intentions of the heart that matters. So if i eat cakes with ishtar in mind, then am worshiping ishtar, i agree. Then we both agree that i can go ahead and enjoy myself celebrating Jesus resurrection. am not thinking ishtar when i jollof. Thank you sir

ijawkid:
Do not adopt the ways of the pagans...

Nothing like pagan ways, only un-Godly ways.

ijawkid:
Mbaaa....the scriptures do nt agree with you........the buildings of pagan worshippers isn't a GO area for christian gathering......the apostles never did such..........

Jesus said then that location does not matter, what matters to God is for us to worship in spirit and truth. God is not concerned with your location. You can worship God anywhere you find ya self

ijawkid:
Now your problem is the animals itself.......I am talking about adopting pagan customs and practices............

we are saying the same thing, the custom and practices adopted has to do with the animals.

ijawkid:
Pagans used animals in there scarifice but ofcourse there pattern of worshipping there gods with those animals were exclusive to them(the pagans) and Gods servants were not to imitate such patterns............

if you are talking 2013, i will agree. but back then the pattern of worshiping was not exclusive to pagans. sacrifice using animals was the same. if you say they had se.x with the animals as part of their worship, i will agree it was exclusive to pagans, but i don't know about that bit sha. can you share those patterns that God servants were told not to imitate? i must have missed that bit.

ijawkid:
If Sango worshippers eat barbecued chicken during there festivals as a custom and I as a christian adopt both the festival,customs and its pattern and tie it up with Jesus ,how would Jesus feel??....

if you adopt a pagan festival, you are not celebrating Jesus. adopting the spring festival amounts to celebrating the spring festival just as celebrated by the original (pagan) celebrants without modification. That has nothing to do with Jesus. The Easter (or pascha, thanks Mr. Ube ) i know contains element of fasting, prayers, thanksgiving, reflections e.t.c. i see some churches acting out the events leading to Christ arrest and crucifixion like the palm sunday thing, the washing of feet e.t.c Italo & co can correct me if am getting it wrong. i don't see anything spring in these activities. It would be nice if you can help tie this activities with the worship of ishtar. The other question will be if such acts can be considered un-Godly. It is on this basis one can or should reject the celebration.

ijawkid:
.....easter and its customs has no dealings with our master Jesus but with paganism...and encyclopedias have shown you,but you would rather not listen.....

believe me i was listening/reading. the thing is that young man freksy was stuck on egg, rabbit and hot buns cake. one cannot conclude that a celebration is un-Godly based on some additional stuff that is based on choice i tried showing that young man that the stuff he was hanging on to show that the celebration is pagan can be removed today with ease. in fact a significant proportion of the celebrants don't celebrate with those items. will their removal result in a celebration that is acceptable to God? if it will not, then they are not worth considering in our discussion. We should focus on what is important.

ijawkid:
Sure??............

sure.

Zikkyy:

i still dey think am

Zikky answer na.......answer so that I go knw wether we dey waste out time here........

Zikkyy:

it's not about me being able to interpret. dropping bible references without interpretation is not ideal.

And all the verses that have been dropped here are not self explanatory??........those verses are quite clear to anyone who is ready to repudiates pagan practices

Zikkyy:

i don't think this was the message in the 2 Corinthians verse you posted. if something is unclean, its unclean whether you 'cling' it to Jesus or not. i consider anything sinful as unclean. you don't wait till you 'cling' it to Jesus before it becomes unclean.

What's the difference other than in this case Jesus in question here............clinging pagan customs to Jesus is unclean......na lie??....answer yes or No....

Zikkyy:



you need to clarify the easter you have in mind. is it ishtar (spring festival), or is it easter (pascha, thanks to Mr. Ube ) the celebration of Jesus resurection? which one?

And what is pascha??.........answer me...what is pascha??...........

I'm talking about ishtar the supposed commemoration of the ressurection of Christ which Christ himself nor his disciples ever instituted......

Zikkyy:

you dey ask again is it not for worship? abi una dey use kingdom hall as bar (a.k.a. beer parlour ) on part time?

Worship of who or what??........

Please walk into a KH and a sango shrine and tell me if there isn't any difference...

Zikkyy:

I agree with you that it is God that draws the line and not man drawing the line. That's why i always say we should consider the fact that pagans and Christians live in the same society. categorizing a practice as pagan because it was done by a pagan is not ideal. Its safer to assess an activity or action using God's law. if something is sinful then it is not Godly, whether performed by a pagan or by a Christian.

The scriptures draw the line.......

The bolded is wrong bro.........you mean if pagans engaged in the use of beads in worshipping there gods a right thinking christian can do the same thinking he is worshipping the Father with it??....you forget that as christians we have a foundation already built that we are to stay on.......the moment pagans set the precedence applying scriptural principles should tell you to avoid such ways......

Zikkyy:

i believe you refers to ishtar or eaostre you stated something here which you have always been against. It is the intentions of the heart that matters. So if i eat cakes with ishtar in mind, then am worshiping ishtar, i agree. Then we both agree that i can go ahead and enjoy myself celebrating Jesus resurrection. am not thinking ishtar when i jollof. Thank you sir

I refer to easter...........there's this question I've asked before and will still ask again..::::......if the catholics did not institute easter (since we've established that easter did not originate with Jesus and his apostles) would you ever think of celebrating the ressurection of Jesus??......

Would you In your life celebrated Jesus' ressurection devoid of the easter observance??.......talk true o......

And don't you ever think there's any difference between ishtar and easter.....if ishtar didn't exist we wouldn't be talking about easter........

Zikkyy:

Nothing like pagan ways, only un-Godly ways.

Pagan ways are under all-ungodly ways.......

And so I'm right when I say the ways of pagans....the moabites,cannanites, and the romans were pagans.......

Zikkyy:

Jesus said then that location does not matter, what matters to God is for us to worship in spirit and truth. God is not concerned with your location. You can worship God anywhere you find ya self

God is concerned when paganism is about to be attached to our worship to him........

Zikky God cannot aCcept worship that is offered to him from a juju shrine........

What relationship does baal and God have??......

Ask yourself....

Zikkyy:

we are saying the same thing, the custom and practices adopted has to do with the animals.



if you are talking 2013, i will agree. but back then the pattern of worshiping was not exclusive to pagans. sacrifice using animals was the same. if you say they had se.x with the animals as part of their worship, i will agree it was exclusive to pagans, but i don't know about that bit sha. can you share those patterns that God servants were told not to imitate? i must have missed that bit.



if you adopt a pagan festival, you are not celebrating Jesus. adopting the spring festival amounts to celebrating the spring festival just as celebrated by the original (pagan) celebrants without modification. That has nothing to do with Jesus. The Easter (or pascha, thanks Mr. Ube ) i know contains element of fasting, prayers, thanksgiving, reflections e.t.c. i see some churches acting out the events leading to Christ arrest and crucifixion like the palm sunday thing, the washing of feet e.t.c Italo & co can correct me if am getting it wrong. i don't see anything spring in these activities. It would be nice if you can help tie this activities with the worship of ishtar. The other question will be if such acts can be considered un-Godly. It is on this basis one can or should reject the celebration.



believe me i was listening/reading. the thing is that young man freksy was stuck on egg, rabbit and hot buns cake. one cannot conclude that a celebration is un-Godly based on some additional stuff that is based on choice i tried showing that young man that the stuff he was hanging on to show that the celebration is pagan can be removed today with ease. in fact a significant proportion of the celebrants don't celebrate with those items. will their removal result in a celebration that is acceptable to God? if it will not, then they are not worth considering in our discussion. We should focus on what is important.



sure.

Zikky what is pascha.....you just dey thank UBE....wetin be pascha??...answer me....

ijawkid:
I'm talking about ishtar the supposed commemoration of the ressurection of Christ which Christ himself nor his disciples ever instituted......

This na New one. I thought ishtar was a spring festival or something I don't know bout this one, so cannot comment.

ijawkid:
The bolded is wrong bro.........you mean if pagans engaged in the use of beads in worshipping there gods a right thinking christian can do the same thinking he is worshipping the Father with it??....you forget that as christians we have a foundation already built that we are to stay on.......the moment pagans set the precedence applying scriptural principles should tell you to avoid such ways.....

You still don't gerrit, being pagan does not mean everything they do is unacceptable to God.pagans also engage in acts of love. Consider the centurion whose servant was sick. He was considered a good man and was building synagogues for the Jews. Can we say the building of synagogues cannot be done by servants of God because its already been done by the centuries? An action or activity can only be wrong if its not acceptable to God. It is not because it was done by pagans.

ijawkid:
I refer to easter...........there's this question I've asked before and will still ask again..::::......if the catholics did not institute easter (since we've established that easter did not originate with Jesus and his apostles) would you ever think of celebrating the ressurection of Jesus??......

Why not? The only reason you knew bout easter is because a national holiday was granted to enable full participation. I doubt if there is a Sunday catholics are not feasting something; something you are not aware of.

ijawkid:
Would you In your life celebrated Jesus' ressurection devoid of the easter observance??.......talk true o......

Even after I told you some people dont know what are easter egg or bunny Look like

Zikkyy:

This na New one. I thought ishtar was a spring festival or something I don't know bout this one, so cannot comment.

Hehehehe...if you like run....ishtar is easter...

Without ishtar therÉ would not be easter...

ijawkid:
Zikky God cannot aCcept worship that is offered to him from a juju shrine.........

Let God decide. You are not in a position to determine that on behalf of the Almighty.

ijawkid:
Zikky what is pascha.....you just dey thank UBE....wetin be pascha??...answer me....

You are asking the wrong person. Talk to Oga Ube.

Zikkyy:

You still don't gerrit, being pagan does not mean everything they do is unacceptable to God.pagans also engage in acts of love. Consider the centurion whose servant was sick. He was considered a good man and was building synagogues for the Jews. Can we say the building of synagogues cannot be done by servants of God because its already been done by the centuries? An action or activity can only be wrong if its not acceptable to God. It is not because it was done by pagans.

And you still don't get it too......what pagans do as regards there worship to there gods would always be something detestable to God and servants of God are to run from such practices...............

When pagans follow the patterÑ set by Gods servants like the centurion then it isn't sÓmething detestable to GoÐ.....infact God is loÓking for suchlike ones........but what if it was the other way round??.....that a Jew was the one building pagan temples??...........hope you see what I'm seeing........

Zikkyy:

Why not? The only reason you knew bout easter is because a national holiday was granted to enable full participation. I doubt if there is a Sunday catholics are not feasting something; something you are not aware of.

Make I hear word o............

As we know Jesus neve® instituted any commÉmoration for his ressurection,so Í know you woulÐnt even observe a rememberance for his ressurection if not for the permanent cu§tom of easter.......

Zikkyy:

Even after I told you some people dont know what are easter egg or bunny Look like

But they ob§erve easter....and we've seen where it came from....

Zikkyy:

Let God decide. You are not in a position to determine that on behalf of the Almighty.

.........even with enough scriptural commands and principles you still want God to whisper in your ears that worshipping him in a sango shrine would be repulsive to him??.....

Zikkyy:

You are asking the wrong person. Talk to Oga Ube.

Lol........you were thanking UBE for shifting the goal post from easter to pascha as an escape route........

Now I ask you wetin be pascha wey u dey talk about for here......

ijawkid:

Lol........you were thanking UBE for shifting the goal post from easter to pascha as an escape route........

Now I ask you wetin be pascha wey u dey talk about for here......

you have a problem with language! No be my fault say you no understand.

ijawkid:
And you still don't get it too......w[b]hat pagans do as regards there worship to there gods would always be something detestable to God[/b] and servants of God are to run from such practices...............

what they have done is to engage in sinful practices, and any Christian engaging in such practices is said to have sinned. 'Pagan' is not the keyword here; sin is. so this is what am saying; you should stop arguing that something is bad because it was done by a pagan. An activity will be considered bad or wrong if it's something God detest.

ijawkid:
When pagans follow the patterÑ set by Gods servants like the centurion then it isn't sÓmething detestable to GoÐ....

The centurion was not a servant of God.

ijawkid:
....infact God is loÓking for suchlike ones.......

yes God would be happy. So if pagans celebrates the resurrection of Christ, it's good news and a step in the right direction.

ijawkid:
As we know Jesus neve® instituted any commÉmoration for his ressurection,

it will be wrong of me to do something that was not instituted by Jesus only if i am acting contrary to a commandment that says i cannot do anything good on my own. i.e. am restricted to precedence. since there is no such commandment, there is no way i can be condemned for doing a good thing just because Jesus did not do it. we have freedom to do every good and acceptable to God, why do you want to restrict that freedom?

ijawkid:
so Í know you woulÐnt even observe a rememberance for his ressurection if not for the permanent cu§tom of easter.......

You are speaking from a position of ignorance cos you don't even know me or what am capable of doing you don't know what people celebrate as individuals and the frequency of celebration. There are lots of activities going on within churches either as a church or as groups or individuals within the church. we cannot not say they are wrong simply because we don't see Jesus or the apostles doing them.

ijawkid:
But they ob§erve easter....and we've seen where it came from....

Yes they observe Easter; their version of Easter and not your version. If they worship God with sincerity of heart, who are you to say they are worshiping Ishtar?

ijawkid:
But they ob§erve easter....and we've seen where it came from....

What you have seen is where colored egg and rabbit came from. you have not seen where the celebration of Jesus resurrection came from.

ijawkid:
........even with enough scriptural commands and principles you still want God to whisper in your ears that worshipping him in a sango shrine would be repulsive to him??.....

even when Jesus told you it no longer matters where you worship the Lord as long as you worship him in spirit and truth, you are living old school We cannot say God rejected everybody in Rev. King's church even if the pastor was worshiping something else, there may still be some peeps worshiping him in spirit and truth. God no dey stay for kingdom hall, na you he follow go kingdom hall. Since there is no law regarding place of worship, i will to wait for God to wisper in ma ears o!

Zikkyy:
it will be wrong of me to do something that was not instituted by Jesus only if i am acting contrary to a commandment that says i cannot do anything good on my own. i.e. am restricted to precedence.

^ ^ ^ Stories!
Did you wake up one day and know it's good to pray, sing, make offerings, observe the Lord's supper etc all on your own? What is precedent (note the spelling), and who is a Christian? See if your definitions are at variance with the following scriptures:
"For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:" 1 Pet. 2:21 "Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ." 1Cor. 11:1 NKJV

since there is no such commandment, there is no way i can be condemned for doing a good thing just because Jesus did not do it. we have freedom to do every good and acceptable to God, why do you want to restrict that freedom?

How do you know easter celebration is good and acceptable to God? Things are not good and acceptable to God merely because a mortal man declares them good and acceptable. "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." - Prov. 14:12

You are speaking from a position of ignorance cos you don't even know me or what am capable of doing >:

You are rather the one ignorant. Easter is not defined by who you are, what you believe in, nor by what you are capable of doing. Your refusal to celebrate Easter the way others do, does not alter its status as an idol and its customs from being pagan's.

( you don't know what people celebrate as individuals and the frequency of celebration. There are lots of activities going on within churches either as a church or as groups or individuals within the church. we cannot not say they are wrong simply because we don't see Jesus or the apostles doing them.

If you like celebrate the heavens and the earth a milion times per second, if that has never being the will of the father, all will be vain.
"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!" Matt. 7:21-23.

Who among you can prove that Easter celebration is the will of the Heavenly Father?

Yes they observe Easter; their version of Easter and not your version. If they worship God with sincerity of heart, who are you to say they are worshiping Ishtar?

It's not about sincerity of heart, but about doing the will of the father. "And in all things that I have said unto you be circumspect : and make no mention of the name of other gods , neither let it be heard out of thy mouth." Ex. 23:13 KJV.

Who are you to say they are doing the will of the father? Who are you to say they are not worshiping God in the name of another god, an idol? Who are you to say that a holy beign can compromise his pure worship with easter's, a goddess, an idol?

What you have seen is where colored egg and rabbit came from. you have not seen where the celebration of Jesus resurrection came from.

Celebration of Jesus' resurrection was an add-on to easter to enable the church fathers christianize this pagan celebration. If you have anything contrary to this, put it up!