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Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS - Politics (4) - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Politics / Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS (19420 Views)

The Toll Booths At The New Ikoyi Link Bridge.pics / Lagos Lawmakers Fault Tolling Of Lekki-ikoyi Link-bridge / Lekki - Ikoyi Link Bridge Construction Update - July 2010 (1) (2) (3) (4)

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Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by Billyonaire: 8:19am On May 30, 2013
berem: ha-ha! I was expecting you to say something silly but once again, you didn't disappoint. smh
The Bridge is beautiful and we should thank Fashola for putting on a thinking cap and making use of the "Federal Allocation" and "IGR" to build this bridge, but I totally disapprove the high cost of toll at that Bridge, the aim is defeated by such imposition because, it means, that only the rich like myself can afford to ply that bridge, while the poor people like Eko Ile can only trek across it. I also thank the Federal Government, for allowing Lagos State to build this bridge across her waters without litigation. Fashola should also channel his efforts to Ajegunle, Makoko and the rest of the slumps of Lagos, and alter the dirt constellating those axis of the poor and needy, so that the poor people can feel the presence of the Government.
Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by blink182(m): 8:23am On May 30, 2013
Eko Atlantic: Ajumobi is commissioning, Fashola is commissioning, jonathan is delivering speech.

I love this democracy.
what do you expect Jonathan to do with his speech, commission it?...lol. He's working on his level and Fashola is not his mate. Jonathan is a dull person and not capable of delivering such projects, at best he will lay the foundation.

3 Likes

Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by amiskurie(m): 8:25am On May 30, 2013
oh,my homeland
your pinkin dey hail o

no be today I sidon dey look o
for which I kon dey vex so teyy
I one commot go jand o

but me'your pikin still reason
say one day na one day u go fit dey rise o

I been dey happy say I never kaput see u dey form obodo oyinbo
ok na,I see reasons to dey yanga in the face of ghanians and xenophobic southy.

ok,see no lele
all I see na the wake of kaput.

grin

1 Like

Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by Realdeals(m): 8:29am On May 30, 2013
Why all the fuss about tolling, even the FG is planning to collect tolls on major highways. Lagos/Ibadan, Benin Ore etc will still be toll after reconstruction.

FG Plans Toll Gates On Kubwa, Airport Roads - FCT Minister
The Federal Government on Wednesday said it would concession the newly constructed Kubwa and Airport roads in Abuja through the introduction of toll gates to make the roads self-sustaining.
http://leadership.ng/nga/articles/49338/2013/03/06/fg_plans_toll_gates_kubwa_airport_roads_fct_minister.html

FG to re-introduce toll gates on Lagos/Ibadan Expressway
http://www.channelstv.com/home/2012/12/04/fg-to-re-introduce-toll-gates-on-lagosibadan-expressway/
 
Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by berem(f): 8:36am On May 30, 2013
Am yet to get a reply on why there was a court injunction to stop Fashola from commissioning the bridge?
Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by Gbawe: 8:41am On May 30, 2013
maryjames9: What qualified the fisherman to be President in the first place? A man with absolutely no achievement in bayelsa. Let me tell you, it takes a visionary man like Fash to govern Nigeria,not a dulard and learner like Gej. Most of you who support Gej are doing that cos he is an Ijaw man,southern man but you need to be objective and take sentiments away. Goodluck is not the right man for this country. He just don't know what to do with the resources in his domain than setting up committees. Yes there was bh, that is no excuse for failure. I voted Gej like many other cos he said he was shoeless. Many of us expected more from this man but his achievement so far is behind 20 percent

100% real and correct talk. Some people have no shame. They can dishonestly tell us that administering Lagos, by far the most populous and most cosmopolitan State in Nigeria, is "different" to leading Nigeria yet same hypocritical folks have no qualms , because he is their kinsman, supporting a hideously crass mediocrity ,who failed in Bayelsa with it comparatively large allocation, as "President material".

They are even happy to tell everyone, in a show of clannish worship and lack of national ambition, that "there is no vacancy in the Villa" instead of simply accepting that GEJ is a failure, placed far above his league, who should be replaced by others who have shown themselves far better than him with how they have stood out in challenging positions - something GEJ has never done . Could bigoted and unreasonable support be more obvious? If Fashola is not fit to lead Nigeria can anyone show us who is?

2 Likes

Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by berem(f): 8:48am On May 30, 2013
Gbawe:

100% real and correct talk. Some people have no shame. They can dishonestly tell us that administering Lagos, by far the most populous and most cosmopolitan State in Nigeria, is "different" to leading Nigeria yet same hypocritical folks have no qualms , because he is their kinsman, supporting a hideously crass mediocrity ,who failed in Bayelsa with it comparatively large allocation, as "President material".

They are even happy to tell everyone, in a show of clannish worship and lack of national ambition, that "there is no vacancy in the Villa" instead of simply accepting that GEJ is a failure, placed far above his league, who should be replaced by others who have shown themselves far better than him with how they have stood out in challenging positions - something GEJ has never done . Could bigoted and unreasonable support be more obvious? If Fashola is not fit to lead Nigeria can anyone show us who is?
Oga Gbawe, could you please explain why there was a court injunction stopping fashola from commissioning the bridge?
Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by Gbawe: 8:55am On May 30, 2013
berem: Oga Gbawe, could you please explain why there was a court injunction stopping fashola from commissioning the bridge?

I think it was linked to the Court case raised in regard to the tolling of the bridge.

http://www.ngrguardiannews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=105952:lawyer-asks-court-to-stop-ikoyi-lekki-toll-&catid=1:national&Itemid=559


Lawyer asks court to stop Ikoyi-Lekki toll
MONDAY, 26 NOVEMBER 2012 00:00 BY JOSEPH ONYEKWERE NEWS - NATIONAL


A LAGOS-based lawyer and human right activist, Ebun-Olu Adegboruwa on Monday filed a suit at a Federal High Court, Lagos, against the Lagos State Government over the proposed collection of N500 toll on the newly constructed Lekki-Ikoyi suspension bridge.

In the suit, Adegboruwa is seeking an order of court injunction, restraining the state government from collecting any toll or road tax in any form whatsoever from motorists in respect of the newly constructed Lekki-Ikoyi suspension bridge.

The applicant averred in his originating summons that the news on the proposed toll collection on the Lekki-Ikoyi bridge was published in The Guardian dated Monday, October. 8 which is annexed to the processes before the court.

Joined in the suit as respondents is the LASG, Attorney General of the Federation, Attorney General of Lagos State, and the National Inland Waterways Authority.

Adegboruwa argued that owing to the prevailing hardship, hunger and unemployment rate in the country,

it was unnecessary for the state government to propose a toll collection of N500 per vehicle on the said bridge which was built on a federal navigable waterway belonging to the Federal Government.

In his originating summons, Adegboruwa wants the court to determine whether the state Government has the power and authority to erect any structure such as a bridge, on the Lagos Lagoon and the Lekki Lagoon, which are both categorised by law as federal navigable waterways.

He also wants the court to decide whether the state government can competently impose any toll or tax on such bridge, among others.
Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by Blueboy0402: 8:57am On May 30, 2013
Garri the 1st: This thread won't be complete if folks with extreme low self esteem and unimaginable inferiority complex do not come to vent their frustration over the backwardness and direction-less movement of their gully-zone.

Waiting for them!!

cool cool cool
Will you close that your gutter mouth!! Can't you just appreciate the good works Fashola is doing without displaying your bigotry? You accuse others of having "extreme low self esteem and unimaginable inferiority complex" but the truth is you are an epitone of the adjectives you used in qualifying those people. By your action you have indeed confirmed that tribalism/bigotry/hatred runs in your DNA. Go get a life, pig!

@ topic: God bless Fashola, God bless Lagos. Lagos is setting the pace for others. Fashola is working! Lagos is moving!
Eko o ni baje ooo....
Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by nikkyshyne(f): 8:57am On May 30, 2013
ZACHIE: What about the toll?
SUV is 300
cars 250
Sport bikes 200

Keke Marwa/Okada/Busses banned
This is crazy!
Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by soledayo: 8:59am On May 30, 2013
Eko Ile:


This bridge is not the only access to get you back and forth, there are others and they are all free of charge curtsey of the people of the great state of state..
What do you mean? Why do i pay tax? It was built with tax payers money and not by any private firm.
Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by ifyalways(f): 9:25am On May 30, 2013
Eko oni baje. Love Fash.
The bridge is not meant for everyone, if u can't afford it, use the other routes.
We don't need danfo drivers ati gbogbo ero with all their noise in ikoyi tongue

Lol
Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by naptu2: 9:30am On May 30, 2013
Excerpts of the speech. I typed it in a hurry and from memory. Apologies for any errors.


He started off by listing everybody on the Lagos State side of the project team (including the present and former commissioners). He said that the bridge was their dream and thanked them for making the dream a reality. He said that they are the ones that Lagosians need to thank and pray for.

He said that the work was because of the nature of Lagos. That General Johnson and Alhaji Jakande would be able to attest to the challenge that Lagos State faces by virtue of the fact that it is a group of islands. In the past people moved around in canoes. Governor Carter built the first bridge, linking Iddo Island with Lagos Island. About 70 years later, the Eko Bridge was built (when Femi Okunnu was the permanent secretary in the Federal Ministry of Works). It was rightly named "Eko" Bridge to indicate its geographical location. Then came the Five Cowrie (which he called Falomo) and Independence bridges. He said that this indicates that what he is doing is nothing new, rather he is just continuing what our forefathers did.

He said that London has * bridges across the River Thames, while Cairo has * bridges across The River Nile (I can't remember the numbers). He said that Lagos also needs more bridges and means of connecting the various islands that make up the state. He recalled the commissioning of the Okota Link Bridge, which has reduced journey times in the Isolo and Mushin areas. He said that work has begun on a link bridge over the Ejigbo Canal, where people died during the Ikeja bomb blast. There will be another link bridge at Ajiliti and another one at Isheri axis. He said that the government is working very hard to make the fourth mainland bridge a reality and it has also built ferry jetties at Ikorodu and Badore to connect people in these two areas before the fourth mainland bridge is completed. He said he believes that Lagos also needs a fifth and sixth mainland bridge.

He thanked everybody who has contributed to the success of the project and singled out President Yar'Adua for special praise. He said that at the initial stage, the team had come up with different possible routes for the bridge, but they finally settled on the present route because it would involve the demolition of fewer structures. However, there were four buildings on the route at the Ikoyi end. Two of the buildings belonged to Lagos State Government, while the other two belonged to the Federal Government. This was at the height of the dispute between the Federal Government and the Lagos State Government over houses in Ikoyi. Members of the Lagos State team told him that the Federal Government would never allow the state demolish the buildings. He told them that he believes that President Yar'Adua is an honourable man, so he would take the case to the President. He explained the problem to President Yar'Adua at the Villa. The President said that political differences should never prevent them from delivering development to the people. That the people voted them in to deliver development and they must never let party differences interfere in that. He immediately picked up the intercom and called the Secretary to The Government of The Federation, Alhaji Yayale Ahmed. When Alhaji Ahmed came into the office, he told him that the Lagos State Government wants to build a bridge, but these buildings are on the route of the bridge. He said, "Without prejudice to the cases in court, I want you to ensure that these buildings are released to the Lagos State Government". Fashola praised President Yar'Adua for his descision and said that the Yar'Adua family, beginning with Mallam Musa Yar'Adua who was Minister of the Federal Capital Territory/Lagos Affairs in the First Republic, has always supported development in Lagos. He praised the late president for being an honourable man and thanked Alhaji Ahmed, who was present, for expediting action and ensuring that the buildings were quickly released to officials of Lagos State.

The Governor also thanked some residents of Alexander Avenue who willingly sacrificed their fences so that the construction yard could be built.

The Governor noted that there are some who, for political and selfish reasons, tried to stop the construction and commissioning of the bridge.

He also noted that some well meaning Lagosians, including Chief Molade Okoya-Thomas and The Oba of Lagos had expressed concern when the bridge was comppleted, but not commissioned. They thought that the commissioning was being delayed by court cases. The Governor stated that there was no court action or court order that prevented the commissioning of the bridge. He noted that some people had, out of selfish and political reasons, instituted a court case against the government. He said Lagos State offiicials will vigourously defend the state in court and also said that he strongly believes that the judicial arm of government is alive and aware of the government's developmental responsibilities.

The Governor thanked the Victoria Island & Ikoyi Residents Association (VIIRA) and the Lekki Residents Association for their cooperation throughout the construction of the bridge. He thanked Julius Berger for the work they've done, but noted that Julius Berger billed the government "very well" (laughter).

The governor said that residents of the area do not own the bridge, but rather, they hold it in trust for all Lagosians, even people from other part of the state, who might want to use it. People have a right to use the bridge, so long as they meet the terms and conditions for use of the bridge. He gave the terms and conditions as : Users will pay a toll. The toll rates are N250 for saloon cars; N300 for mini vans, Sport Utility Vehicles (SUVs) and light pick-up trucks; N400 for non-commercial buses (he stressed the "non commercial" )with a maximum sitting capacity of 26 persons (these are your official coaster buses, etc) ; N100 for motorcycles with 200cc engine capacity and above (he stressed the 200cc). He said that okada, keke marwa, danfo, high capacity buses, large trucks and trailers would not be allowed to use the bridge.

The Governor said that, just like the Eko Bridge, this bridge will take the name of its geographical location and he consequently names it the "Lekki-Ikoyi Link Bridge".

The Governor said that it took him 23 minutes over 5 kilometres of road to get to this point (on a public holiday), but driving across the bridge will take 3 minutes over 1.7 kilometres. That's 20 minutes saved. He said if you calculate the savings over a period of one year, then a period of 6 years, you'll be able to understand the impact of the bridge. He said that Lekki residents who have no business with Victoria Island will not have to go through Victoria Island to go about their business. He said the government is committed to completing the road behind the third roundabout to ensure that Ajah residents who have no business with Victoria Island will also have no reason to go onto Ozumba Mbadiwe Road. If they do, it would be by choice, not because of lack of alternatives. The government is also committed to upgrading Glover and Thompson roads in Ikoyi to ensure that there are many routes through which traffic from the bridge can easily dissipate.

He said that a few years ago he came to commission the Falomo ramp, which has considerably reduced traffic at the Law School axis. On Democracy Day last year he commissioned the Traffic Radio, which is another piece of the road traffic infrastructure that reduces the stress Lagosians experience on the road. Today he is here to commission the Lekki-Ikoyi Link Bridge, which will further reduce traffic jams on Ozumba Mbadiwe, Falomo and Alfred Rewane road. Next year, who knows what he might be commissioning.

3 Likes

Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by favourbroda: 9:31am On May 30, 2013
God bless fashola his effort $ goodwill may his children enjoy amen$amen eko oni ba je oooh
Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by naptu2: 9:43am On May 30, 2013
I forgot. He also said the bridge will be opened to the public on June 1st, when the tents and other things used during the commissioning would have been removed.
Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by chris365(m): 10:02am On May 30, 2013
bloggernaija:
Golden Gate Bridge - carry your $6 or jump inside lagoon and swim.



http://www.jaunted.com/story/2011/7/18/185449/475/travel/The Top Ten US Toll Bridges Worth the Money


And is that a residential area to you?
Fashola has barricaded lekki with 3 toll gates. * a residential area for crying out loud*
do your research and tell me which residential area is being tolled in the major cities in the world.
Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by naptu2: 10:11am On May 30, 2013
Barricaded? New Market Road?



Completely toll free. Even the TUC owned BRT buses used it.
Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by ktqueeny: 10:15am On May 30, 2013
please is it toll free or will I pay here and still pay at lekki
Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by chris365(m): 10:19am On May 30, 2013
pro01:

That's why I laugh at the îmbècilès that are spewing rubbish such as "Fashola for President 2015". Where would he get the votes from? Is it the 1% wealthy elite or 19% smug middle class that would stand in the sun and rain to vote on election day? Or is it the overwhelming 80% majority of poor people who this animal called Fashola has made life unbearable for in Lagos? Do these fools think Lagos, let alone Nigeria, begins and ends with the residents of Ikoyi, Victoria Island, and Lekki? I am certain that Fashola would woefully lose a senatorial election in Lagos state, assuming that is what he wants to consider next after his punitive governorship ends in 2015. Go to the densely populated suburbs all over Lagos - from Mushin to Okokomaiko to Oshodi and Ijora Badia, etc and ask the millions of poor residents in these areas what they think about Fashola. Also ask the everyday working class people who have to trek long distances to and from work daily simply because they committed the crime of not being able to afford to own cars, and have had their means of transport (Okada and Keke) banned without alternatives.

The man has no grassroots appeal whatsoever, let him and his hare-brained internet supporters continue deluding themselves.

Just leave these people, let them continue to let sentimennts cloud their judgements.
Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by olusola200: 10:21am On May 30, 2013
Ajumobi, okorocha, aregbesola are commissioning, Fashola is commissioning, jonathan is delivering speech BOKO HARAM DELIVERING BOMB
Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by naptu2: 10:29am On May 30, 2013
There we go with the usual "Fashola is elitist" nonsense. If I start posting all the developmental projects Fashola has implemented in low income neighbourhoods, if I start posting the poverty alleviation projects, these people will not be able to reply.

Just two days ago Berem posted the story of the street kid who ran away from home. He was living on the streets. The social welfare department picked him up, reunited him with his family (although his father didn't want him), sheltered him, taught him a skill and today he earns more than some white collar office workers.

These stories are not as spectacular as cable-stayed bridges, they may not get column inches in newspapers, but they are real, they are many and they exist.

http://www.nairaland.com/1306519/make-n5000-daily-street-kid
Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by Tinkinguy(m): 10:45am On May 30, 2013
Thanked God the project had been commissioned, its good for development well done Fashola/Lagos,
However, Why am I not surprise at the rate of praises here for Fashola, even when I will be made to pay through thick skin for it.
I have come to know that some Nigerians are just sycophants….. QED.

What’s the benefit of collecting monthly allocations and sharing of excess crude oil free fall for the states, collecting monthly tax payment and all other irrelevant dues, when they will use it or part of it or even ignore it as was the case most times here in Lagos and build projects for use by the people and the state will still ask me to pay heavily for it.

If I pay for water, light, transportation, medicals, for doing my birthday or wedding party or whatever party and even using a road, then of what use is my tax payment for??.

hmmm, lets trade softly and be careful what we wish for, we might after all get it unknowingly and then it will be too late.
Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by ilugunboy(m): 10:45am On May 30, 2013
A special thank you to the late President Umar Musa Y'ardua..... perhaps if not for his statesmanship like role in conceding those two FG house to LASG the bridge would still be at the planning level.

The big question is...would GEJ have given the approval considering his level of pettiness even over his own party affairs not to talk of a project that the opposition would likely leverage on politically?
Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by sholarb(m): 10:49am On May 30, 2013
Burger01: Eko baje ti... Haters please go jump from Ikoyi link bridge.

Fashy Baba, we dey your back like hunchback. Please do one more term. This is dividend of democracy.

grin

By the time he bombards your residential area with three different toll plazas (cos i doubt you use the toll plaza daily) i bet you will sing a different song!!
Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by freshdude2(m): 10:50am On May 30, 2013
Eko Atlantic: Ajumobi is commissioning, Fashola is commissioning, jonathan is delivering speech.

I love this democracy.
You forgot to put another "commissioner-in-chief", Governor Amosun.
Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by naptu2: 10:58am On May 30, 2013
So finally we have the three route access roads, the BRT buses (although I wish TUC would resume operations) and the ferry service (Tarzan car and people ferry, etc), what's left?

The Green Line!

I CAN'T WAIT FOR THE GREEN LINE!!!
Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by Joarams(m): 11:08am On May 30, 2013
There are projects ongoing allover in Lagos, depending on where you choose to look. These ones are reported for their topical nature. Ikorodu has a massive road expansion project going on; Badagry road has a mega-massive road + rail project going on; Ejigbo has same...
Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by ZACHIE: 11:13am On May 30, 2013
SLIDE waxie: u won't kill yourself with ur village life!
A typical Nigerian will want everything to work fine but for freeeeee! I mean, real freeee!

Let me juggle u a lil' bit:

In england, The toll at the Humber Bridge per single crossing costs: £1.20 for motor cycles, £2.70 for cars, £4.90 for goods vehicles and £18.90 for heavy commercial vehicles and this Humber Bridge is just a single-span suspension bridge, which connects the East Riding of Yorkshire and North Lincolnshire.

The toll for the QE2 bridge even av off peak and peak period. It's free to motorbikes though, but a vehicle pay as much as 5pounds to pass!

So, pack go ur 'fillage' if lagos dey kill u!


Village life is a peaceful life and we live within our means
We do not make a comparison with other people,s meals. Our meal is enough for us, one family at a time.
You will think England is your father,s stead.
even besides that, do we have the same earning power as The England you are comparing us to?
See this for an average hardworking Lagosian that is forced to take that Bridge each working day, he must cough out 600/day, which translates 12,000/Month and 144,000 per annum if he must use a bridge built with his commonwealth wealth.
If there must be a toll, it should not be one to kill the users
Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by berem(f): 11:17am On May 30, 2013
naptu2: There we go with the usual "Fashola is elitist" nonsense. If I start posting all the developmental projects Fashola has implemented in low income neighbourhoods, if I start posting the poverty alleviation projects, these people will not be able to reply.

Just two days ago Berem posted the story of the street kid who ran away from home. He was living on the streets. The social welfare department picked him up, reunited him with his family (although his father didn't want him), sheltered him, taught him a skill and today he earns more than some white collar office workers.

These stories are not as spectacular as cable-stayed bridges, they may not get column inches in newspapers, but they are real, they are many and they exist.

http://www.nairaland.com/1306519/make-n5000-daily-street-kid
@ naptu, am very angry with the moderators for their refusal to move that inspirational thread to front page after pleading with them to do so. So much could be learnt from that story but instead they prefer to put Tonto Dike frying akara or MC Weird not getting married on front page. smh

http://www.nairaland.com/1306519/make-n5000-daily-street-kid#15958710

2 Likes

Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by berem(f): 11:17am On May 30, 2013
,,,,,
Re: Fashola Commissions Lekki-ikoyi Link Bridge. PICS by Ilaje44(m): 11:19am On May 30, 2013
Garri the 1st: This thread won't be complete if folks with extreme low self esteem and unimaginable inferiority complex do not come to vent their frustration over the backwardness and direction-less movement of their gully-zone.

Waiting for them!!

cool cool cool

You don't need to dare them to come to the thread. Ahaa, eyin omode wonyi sha, se gbogbo nkan lo ye ki e fi ma to ija ni? Why dont you appraise or critique the topic of the thread and leave those people you implying out of it?

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