Hezron Lorraine: wow,must have been hard.like I explained above,there are different stages at discovery.now I know where you fall in.

so where do you think i fall in?

Yooguyz:
have you ever been in a situation where you are attracted to men?

Trick question. If I sa¥ ¥es then ¥ou will start to tell me to consider the fact that I am ga¥, and if no then I am sure ¥ou will sa¥ that is wh¥ I don't understand.

I have written a book called Lucifer's. Lover, and in there GOD exposed the wa¥s in which the devil entangles generations and makes it look like normal, if ¥ou ask me I will tell that he has reall¥ done a good job at it.

1.Cor.10: 13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Hello people, where u folks at, aaaaamm baaaack

Yooguyz: Hello people, where u folks at, aaaaamm baaaack

Hi bro.to reply your question,I say you fall into this category:
There are gay people who after years of having feelings for the opposite sex begin to experience same sex feelings without having control over it or you have been straight then you were faced with an intimate advance from the same sex and you found that you can't resist the urge.Which are you.

Yooguyz: Hello people, where u folks at, aaaaamm baaaack

welcome but please kindly answer my question

There's something I want us to discuss.its about whether God is impartial with his blessings using the Jacob and Esau example.I'll be back with more details later.

Hezron Lorraine: There's something I want us to discuss.its about whether God is impartial with his blessings using the Jacob and Esau example.I'll be back with more details later.

ok.

OmoKhary: welcome but please kindly answer my question

maybe i missed the question, can you post the question again?

Since this thread is open for questions, can I ask one please?

Who is a Gay Christian?

debosky: Since this thread is open for questions, can I ask one please?

Who is a Gay Christian?

the answer to the question would depend on whom you are asking, and the motive for asking.

I have followed this thread for a while now and I thought I could share the Story of Randy Thomas to help the discuss her(that is if it has not been mentioned before):

Randy Thomas grew up in an abusive environment. At the age of 5 he perceived his natural father was a threat to his mother and at that young age promised his mother he would take care of her. Randy recalled that childhood, “Growing up I internalized the abuse and the pain grew. My need for love was desperate. I knew at a very young age that I preferred the company of males even though I wasn’t like them. When a male would smile my heart would leap. This became erotic at the age of ten.”

The pain in Randy’s heart continued through adolescence and at age 16 he started drinking and had his first homosexual experience. At eighteen he was dating men and frequenting gay bars. Randy believed the only thing going for him was his homosexual identity. He explained, “When I walked into my first gay nightclub, I was ecstatic. People here were friendly and fun and just like me! … My first sense of belonging, safety and identity was through the gay community.”

At nineteen Randy’s mother asked him if he was gay and he told her he was. His mother was not a religious person and as a family they had only briefly attended church, but in her childhood she had been taken to a rural Tennessee church and told that God hated gays. Randy’s mother imparted that theology lesson to her son and she threw him out of their home. A popular drag queen gave Randy a place to live.

Randy was openly gay and believed with his whole heart that he was born that way. He never thought about leaving homosexuality, because he believed he could only be happy as a homosexual. Every opportunity Randy had he promoted the gay ideology.

At that time he believed in a God, but didn’t really know what to think about Him. He had come to the conclusion that the Bible was culturally biased. When his mother kicked him out of their home he “became hard about hearing anything about the gospel.” Randy did not care about Christians. Despite his harden attitude at the age of twenty Randy went to a Bible study a co-worker invited him to and met a man who told him that “he wasn’t gay anymore and was getting married, to a woman.” Randy did not take it personally, but later he started to recognize that his life was empty and he began to fear the future. For the first time in his life he prayed an honest prayer - “God help me, please.”

One month later Randy was on a Greyhound bus headed for Dallas with a chance to “start over.” Instead he “found the best gay bars and drugs Dallas had to offer.” The night of New Years 1990 he was drunk and vomiting when he had a premonition of his own death in an alcoholic state of stupor. For Randy the event was a culmination of a lifetime of asking why. “Why all this pain? Why was I even still alive? I had been through drug overdoses, abuse (from childhood and gay bashers), worry-free homosexual sex. Nobody seemed to really care, so what’s the point?” Almost two months later Randy was in a twelve step program and sober for the first time in while. He thought he was at the beginning of a fulfilled gay life.

Randy’s life continued on a roller coaster. He had a spiritual experience where he felt the presence of God and he knew that “God had gotten me off drugs! He had orchestrated every move. He had a purpose for my life.” A short time later he started drinking again. It wasn’t un htil March of 1992 that he went back into the twelve step program where he was reunited with a friend that had recently become a Christian.

“Then it started; she kept talking about Jesus. This was the girl that would convince me to run around till dawn doing stupid fun things. But here she was, calm, reflective and loving. I was amazed that Jesus had transformed her life. I asked her about homosexuality and [was] angry at her response. She said, “I now believe it is a sin, but God would not call it a sin if there wasn’t something better.” She informed me that a former lover of mine had recommitted his life to Christ (I had no idea he was a Christian) and was getting married to a woman. This reminded me of the man at that Bible study in Nashville.”

Pls read the conclusion of the story on this link http://ex-gaytruth.com/encyclopedia/randy-thomas/

Yooguyz:
the answer to the question would depend on whom you are asking, and the motive for asking.

As the thread-starter, I am asking you.

As for motive, I wish to understand what is meant by the term in order to understand those whom this thread is intended to welcome.

debosky: Since this thread is open for questions, can I ask one please?

Who is a Gay Christian?

Let's redirect Your Question and ask:Who is a christian?

Answering this we say a Christian is A Follower of Christ.Someone believes in Christ as His True Lord and Saviour.someone who observes the laid down principles and message of Christ.In other words,someone who acts like Christ would in day to day activities.That's a Christian.

On who a Gay Christian is.Be careful not to get carried away by the Term 'Gay Christian'.There's only a Christian.As to why someone would choose to identify as Gay Christian Is a matter of wanting to stay true to your faith despite persecutions.Someone who despite their s.exual orientation is still a follower of Christ against the believes and judgement of the vast Christian Populace.

I read the OP and some comments that followed it and I understand that some people had issues with the thread being called a Gay Christian chat box. They would have preferred that it is called a gay chat box.

I think I get their fears and in a sense I agree with them. One cannot be gay and at the same time be a Christian.

But, before we jump into such a conclusion, we may need to hear the OP out well. Wether he is gay or not, is not an issue to me. He feels that one can be a Christian and be gay at the same time. And that being gay is a natural disposition some individuals find themselves in and cannot help it. So, if there are naturally occurring people like that, why can't they also be Christians - as Christ died for all men.

I am very open to any contradiction on this matter, but this is my position: One can be gay and one can become a Christian. Just as one could be a murderer, adulterer and a thief and then becomes a Christian. The problem is with being a Christian and still remaining gay, murderer, adulterer, thief, etc. I believe that Christianity call us to Christ as we are but leads us in him as new Creatures.

The gay inclination whether natural, in born, in built or whatever, is supposed to succumb to a new nature in Christ. Now the challenge is with how the gay-Christian allows for his life to be reformed. He may in one hand accept that being gay is sinful and submit to the power of God that is ready to change him or he may on the other hand, believe that being gay is natural and acceptable and find a way to making it compatible with his new nature in Christ. For which, I believe, he will continue to have conflicts with the Spirit of God within him, if he truly is regenerated.

I do believe one can be gay and also be a Christian; but I believe that one being a Christian, such an individual can avail himself to the power of God to deliver him from the power of homosexuality.

This is what the story Randy Thomas depicts and those who find themselves as gays and are Christians now, also can learn from him.

http://randythomas.co/about/

Hezron Lorraine: Let's redirect Your Question and ask:Who is a christian?

Answering this we say a Christian is A Follower of Christ.Someone believes in Christ as His True Lord and Saviour.someone who observes the laid down principles and message of Christ.In other words,someone who acts like Christ would in day to day activities.That's a Christian.

On who a Gay Christian is.Be careful not to get carried away by the Term 'Gay Christian'.There's only a Christian.As to why someone would choose to identify as Gay Christian Is a matter of wanting to stay true to your faith despite persecutions.Someone who despite their s.exual orientation is still a follower of Christ against the believes and judgement of the vast Christian Populace.

Thanks for the answer sir. Can you clarify what you mean by being 'true to your faith despite persecutions'? Is s.exual orientation (or any other orientation from that matter) excluded from what it means to 'act like Christ would in day to day activities'?

debosky:

As the thread-starter, I am asking you.

As for motive, I wish to understand what is meant by the term in order to understand those whom this thread is intended to welcome.

The term "gay christian" literally speaking is IMPOSSIBLE ( from my own perspective ). But i chose the term to refer to those who have been alienated by religious christians because of their sexual orientation. I chose the term to refer to people of orientation and gays who love Jesus and accept the sacrifice he made on the cross of calvary. I chose the term to refer to those who want to RECONCILE THEIR CHRISTIAN FAITH WITH THEIR ORIENTATION. It's not about bending the scriptures to suit one's view. It's about recognizing your "weaknesses" and yet still make heaven.

I participated in the hurtful
echo chamber of
condemnation. I gave lip
service to the gay
community, but really did not
exemplify compassion for
them. I placed the battle over
policy above my concern for
real people. I sometimes
valued the shoulder pats I
was given by religious leaders
more than Jesus’
commandment to love and
serve. That was wrong and
I’m disappointed in myself.
Please forgive me.
I directly empowered people to co-opt my testimony
and use it against the gay community. There were a
few times I almost worked up the nerve to confront
them, only to hear them invoke my name at an
opportune moment. ‘Of course I love gay people,’
they would say. ‘Just look at my good friend Randy…’
It was very selfish of me to back down in these
situations. I apologize.”

@ Drumma

I'll preface with the following - my thinking is still evolving on this subject, so indulge any imperfections therein.

While the testimony you provided is a good aid, it doesn't address those who regard homosexuality as the way they are born - something they have no choice in, and something not determined by harsh events in their lives. (Unless of course, you imply that all cases of homosexuality can be traced back to traumatic incidents in one's childhood).

In Randy's case, the cause appears easy to identify - events in his childhood and his response to those events. However, I would argue that there are numerous homosexuals who didn't experience this in their childhood.

The gay inclination whether natural, in born, in built or whatever, is supposed to succumb to a new nature in Christ.

This sounds good in principle, but may be problematic in practice. If it is in-born how do you let it succumb to a new nature? I am born male for example - no matter how I let my maleness succumb to the new nature in Christ, it doesn't involve changing my maleness.

This is very important as general comparisons to lying, etc. are a different kettle of fish altogether, as I am not aware of people asserting that lying or stealing or killing is the way they were born.

If I am 'born' male, but I am not required to change my maleness, why, if I am 'born' homosexual am I required to change that?

Yooguyz:
The term "gay christian" literally speaking is IMPOSSIBLE ( from my own perspective ). But i chose the term to refer to those who have been alienated by religious christians because of their sexual orientation. I chose the term to refer to people of orientation and gays who love Jesus and accept the sacrifice he made on the cross of calvary. I chose the term to refer to those who want to RECONCILE THEIR CHRISTIAN FAITH WITH THEIR ORIENTATION. It's not about bending the scriptures to suit one's view. It's about recognizing your "weaknesses" and yet still make heaven.

Are you saying you find the gay orientation incompatible with being a Christian? How can one reconcile one's faith with orientation if the faith is (understood as) explicitly considering such orientation sinful and unacceptable?

If having a gay orientation is seen as an inextricable part of one's makeup, surely there is no reconciliation with a faith that (seemingly) rejects such an orientation?

Agree 100% with this scriptural view of this topic.

What's OP Keep seeing it a lot.

DrummaBoy: I read the OP and some comments that followed it and I understand that some people had issues with the thread being called a Gay Christian chat box. They would have preferred that it is called a gay chat box.

I think I get their fears and in a sense I agree with them. One cannot be gay and at the same time be a Christian.

But, before we jump into such a conclusion, we may need to hear the OP out well. Wether he is gay or not, is not an issue to me. He feels that one can be a Christian and be gay at the same time. And that being gay is a natural disposition some individuals find themselves in and cannot help it. So, if there are naturally occurring people like that, why can't they also be Christians - as Christ died for all men.

I am very open to any contradiction on this matter, but this is my position: One can be gay and one can become a Christian. Just as one could be a murderer, adulterer and a thief and then becomes a Christian. The problem is with being a Christian and still remaining gay, murderer, adulterer, thief, etc. I believe that Christianity call us to Christ as we are but leads us in him as new Creatures.

The gay inclination whether natural, in born, in built or whatever, is supposed to succumb to a new nature in Christ. Now the challenge is with how the gay-Christian allows for his life to be reformed. He may in one hand accept that being gay is sinful and submit to the power of God that is ready to change him or he may on the other hand, believe that being gay is natural and acceptable and find a way to making it compatible with his new nature in Christ. For which, I believe, he will continue to have conflicts with the Spirit of God within him, if he truly is regenerated.

I do believe one can be gay and also be a Christian; but I believe that one being a Christian, such an individual can avail himself to the power of God to deliver him from the power of homosexuality.

This is what the story Randy Thomas depicts and those who find themselves as gays and are Christians now, also can learn from him.

http://randythomas.co/about/

Debosky:

I'll preface with the following - my thinking is still evolving on this subject, so indulge any imperfections therein.

My own thinking is also evolving on this matter but no matter how much it evolves, it cannot go beyond a basic understanding of the bible.

Debosky:

While the testimony you provided is a good aid, it doesn't address those who regard homosexuality as the way they are born - something they have no choice in, and something not determined by harsh events in their lives. (Unless of course, you imply that all cases of homosexuality can be traced back to traumatic incidents in one's childhood).

In Randy's case, the cause appears easy to identify - events in his childhood and his response to those events. However, I would argue that there are numerous homosexuals who didn't experience this in their childhood.

I agree that every one will have varying experiences and all of them cannot, of course, be a Randy Thomas. But except, we want to submit to an extra-biblical position, that says that God made some mistakes in some of his creation and thus created some people imperfectly - making them gay, we must agree that at some point in people's lives, through some expeirences, such people begin to nurture gay worldviews, that grow into full blown homosexuality.

Debosky:

This sounds good in principle, but may be problematic in practice. If it is in-born how do you let it succumb to a new nature? I am born male for example - no matter how I let my maleness succumb to the new nature in Christ, it doesn't involve changing my maleness.

I believe the proccess of being changed from glory to glory unto Christ's person is the working of the Holy Spirit. I however, argue that God will need our agreement for that work to be done. If we think we are ok the way we are, we will not avail ourselves to God's power that is able to change anyone or any nature.

Debosky:

This is very important as general comparisons to lying, etc. are a different kettle of fish altogether, as I am not aware of people asserting that lying or stealing or killing is the way they were born.

I agree with you: comparing gays with murder and theft is digging up a can of womrms that will not help in a proper discuss with individuals who claim to be gays and are Christians also. Pls, accept my apology on that. It is due to my own in-bred prejudice against gays.

Debosky:

If I am 'born' male, but I am not required to change my maleness, why, if I am 'born' homosexual am I required to change that?

With God nothing shall be impossible!

ayoku777: Agree 100% with this scriptural view of this topic.

What's OP Keep seeing it a lot.

OP is an abbreviation I found here on nairaland that I think means OPENER. I may be wrong. But it can be used in a dual manner: to either refer to this first post on a thread or to the person who posted it. I think I used it to refer to the person who opened the thread.

Now welcome. You have an unfinished business on nairaland.

We are still looking forward to your posting your paper on Walking in the Spirit in the concluded E-Convention. Pls refer to this thread https://www.nairaland.com/1416947/welcome-e-grace-convention-2013/1#17754058. Let me know when you can upload your paper and then we'll invite the house to it.

Thanks.

Yooguyz.Keep the thread going.heading out the country now.I'll log on next week.bye.

Safe journey bro.

Hezron Lorraine: Yooguyz.Keep the thread going.heading out the country now.I'll log on next week.bye.

Finally! Safe flight,my regards to ur folks.

Thanks, I guessed that was the meaning too, something like 'Opening Post'. But I got confused when it was being used to refer to the individual as well.

LOL @ unfinished business. Will let you know when I will upload my piece. I love being Spirit-led for maximum impact, don't just want to 'add to the list' of posts.

Hope you're doing good. I've checked out some of the links, hope it wasn't hijacked and turned into a 'roforofo' fight again?

DrummaBoy:

OP is an abbreviation I found here on nairaland that I think means OPENER. I may be wrong. But it can be used in a dual manner: to either refer to this first post on a thread or to the person who posted it. I think I used it to refer to the person who opened the thread.

Now welcome. You have an unfinished business on nairaland.

We are still looking forward to your posting your paper on Walking in the Spirit in the concluded E-Convention. Pls refer to this thread https://www.nairaland.com/1416947/welcome-e-grace-convention-2013/1#17754058. Let me know when you can upload your paper and then we'll invite the house to it.

Thanks.

Thanks

@hezron,
safe journey. @masonkz how you dey na?

DrummaBoy:
My own thinking is also evolving on this matter but no matter how much it evolves, it cannot go beyond a basic understanding of the bible.

And does that basic understanding tell you you can change a nature you are born with?

I agree that every one will have varying experiences and all of them cannot, of course, be a Randy Thomas. But except, we want to submit to an extra-biblical position, that says that God made some mistakes in some of his creation and thus created some people imperfectly - making them gay, we must agree that at some point in people's lives, through some expeirences, such people begin to nurture gay worldviews, that grow into full blown homosexuality.

I disagree - I don't know what you mean by 'imperfectly' but there are people for example born with defects, without limbs, etc. Are those perfect? If those people are not perfect and are not denied access to God's kingdom, why do you assert that people cannot have been born homosexual in orientation?

I believe the proccess of being changed from glory to glory unto Christ's person is the working of the Holy Spirit. I however, argue that God will need our agreement for that work to be done. If we think we are ok the way we are, we will not avail ourselves to God's power that is able to change anyone or any nature.

I agree, but then again, if you are male - do you ask God to change you from being male for example? Or change you from being black to white?

I agree with you: comparing gays with murder and theft is digging up a can of womrms that will not help in a proper discuss with individuals who claim to be gays and are Christians also. Pls, accept my apology on that. It is due to my own in-bred prejudice against gays.

No need to apologise bro, I'm just trying to explain my own limited understanding of the subject.

With God nothing shall be impossible!

Amen!

But even with a strong belief in this, I am not aware of any men that have been converted to women (or vice versa), neither am I aware of other aspects of people's nature which they are born with changing. If that is not observed, is the expectation of those with gay orientation (who believe they are born that way) to change?

I didn't know we had this many gay christians on Nairaland.

debosky:

Are you saying you find the gay orientation incompatible with being a Christian? How can one reconcile one's faith with orientation if the faith is (understood as) explicitly considering such orientation sinful and unacceptable?

If having a gay orientation is seen as an inextricable part of one's makeup, surely there is no reconciliation with a faith that (seemingly) rejects such an orientation?

lemme explian some terms i use and the meaning i ascribe to them :
MAN OF ORIENTATION: someone who is attracted to the same sex, both sexes. It's something he finds himself in, it's beyond his control. He has accepted his. He can be reffered to as a homosexual based on his attraction.
GAY: is someone who assumes the identity above. It's a label. When one decides to act on his attraction, he's classified as gay. I know about all what the bible says about homosexuality. I came about the definitions above because i want to be at peace with myself and still make heaven.

ayoku777: Thanks, I guessed that was the meaning too, something like 'Opening Post'. But I got confused when it was being used to refer to the individual as well.

LOL @ unfinished business. Will let you know when I will upload my piece. I love being Spirit-led for maximum impact, don't just want to 'add to the list' of posts.

Hope you're doing good. I've checked out some of the links, hope it wasn't hijacked and turned into a 'roforofo' fight again?

We'll be looking forward to it.

There was little trouble on the thread. One or two people had issues but they were easily resolved. I think our making rules for the thread worked and it ensured the usual suspects did not hijack it. Some guys that had issues with christembassey's presentation opened a thread claiming there was heresy spotted on the convention. I explained the issue out to them with a post but they still lashed out at me. So I left them to enjoy their thread.

We shall be looking forward to your paper. Do take your time.

Cheers.