@theoctopus
In both lights that Jesus castigated those tithing I hope you noted He gave reasons why?

Also did you notice for instance one said he fast twice a week, yet we also know Jesus said 'This goesth not out but by fasting and prayer' so was he castigating fasting there? The guy was just being pompous and pointing out the other sinner to God.

In the other, He said they were tithing and neglecting the weigtheir aspects of the law....but did you see what He concluded with....He said they should do both (loving, justice, mercy, tithing) and I hope you know tithing was not done only by the Pharisees? In that place there was even a multitude.

Jesus told the Pharisee Nicodemus He must be born again and also of water and spirit.....He did not say those same things to His disciples...All we mentioned was that there was a reason behind all this and Jesus TAUGHT. HIS WORDS ARE LIFE. It is the message we passed across.


Paul spoke about tithes and offerings in I Corinthians 9:13-14 and the reason you see it was because THEY WERE EXAMINING HIM in I Corinthians 9:3....Same way people here have been calling names on what they do not believe. He said in Verse 15, He decided not to take the right SO NO MAN WILL MAKE HIS GLORYING VOID. The same kind of haters evidences on this thread is the same type that were EXAMINING HIM then. But he took offerings and He called it a sacrifice and sweet savour in Philipians 4:18-19. And He admonished people to give to those that teach them in ALL things. He decided to let it go....And that is why you did not see it mentioned again.

The Jerusalem Christians actually gave 100%, sold their lands, houses and brough it to the apostles feet for sharing to all who have need but just 10% is generating so much from supposed Christians who claim we should give our 100% to God.

If you just take time and read the thread, you will understand this questions have been answered in detail.
Thank you.

God didn't need money while humans were being created so he does not need money to bless anybody.Only lazy pastors emphasise tithing.

Alwaystrue: [b]The Christians in Jerusalem gave all during the time of the apostles so they were giving 100% yet there were still complaints even within the widows when they did not get out of it. Strangely though it was not a law yet Ananias and Saphira kept part, lied and lost their lives in the NT.

In 1 Corinthians 9:3, Paul said some people were examining him (ARE WE SURPRISED GOING BY THE SAME LEVEL OF REASONING ON TITHE SEEN SO FAR) AND he decided not to use what He called a RIGHT, SO NO ONE WILL MAKE HIS GLORYING VOID....YES THE SELF-APPOINTED EXAMINERS OF PAUL. Still he received gifts one of which he even called a fragrant offering and acceptable sacrifice. Phil 4:18 and he blessed them in verse 19. Paul ws not afraid to use a burnt offering term to describe it. He understood it. Anything of great sacrifice is a burnt offering. Yes, even Paul understood the 'Principle'.

The offering for the poor saints in Jerusalem in II Cor. 9 was because of the famine as they had been giving their all already (100%) so the offerings were given to help them, it was not meant to be continuous. It would go on till they got back to their feet. There were other poor saints in Macedonia who were so liberal and always willing to giving especially to Paul (2 Cor.8:1-7). [/b]

Like I said it is obvious many have still not read the thread. All these questions have been answered. God spoke about TITHES AND OFFERINGS...not just tithes in (Malachi 3: 8 ).....TITHES AND OFFERINGS have been given since the time of Abraham. If you do not have a problem with offerings then I really wonder why tithes is the issue....that is the hypocrisy of it all.

Alwaystrue: @theoctopus
In both lights that Jesus castigated those tithing I hope yoiu noted He gave reasons why?

Also did you notice for instance one said he fast twice a week, yet we also know Jesus said 'This goesth not out but by fasting and prayer' so was he castigating fasting there?

In the other He said they were tithing and neglecting the weigtheir aspects of the law....but did you see what He concluded with....He said they should do both (loving, justice, mercy, tithing) and I hope you know tithing was not done only by the Pharisees? In that place there was even a multitude.

Jesus told the Pharisee Nicodemus He must be born again and also fo water and spirit.....He did not say those same things to His disciples...All we mentioned was that there was a reason behind all this and Jesus THOUGHT. HIS WORDS ARE LIFE. It is the message we passed across.


Paul spoke about tithes and offerings in I Corinthians 9:13-14 and the reason you see it was because THEY WERE EXAMINING HIM in I Corinthians 9:3....Same way people here have been calling names on what they do not believe. He said in Verse 15, He decided not to take the right SO NO MAN WILL MAKE HIS GLORYING VOID. The same kind of haters evidences on this thread is the same type that were EXAMINING HIM then. But he took offerings He called a sacrifice and sweet savour in Philipians 4:18-19. And He admonished people to give to those that teach them in ALL things. He decided to let it go....And that is why you did not see it mentioned again.

The Jerusalem Christians actually gave 100%, sold their lands, houses and brough tot the apostles feet for sharing to all who have need but just 10% is generating so much frm supposed Christians who claim we should give our 100% to God.

If you justtake time and read the thread, you will understand this questions have been answered in detail.
Thank you.

I am sorry but you seem to be interpreting the Word of God to suit your purpose. Why are you trying to explain God's word to fit your doctrine? It is self explanatory. It is only when a man is trying to create a wrong doctrine out of it that he starts to create meanings which are not there. Jesus was very clear, He called tithing a lesser matter of the law and said the pharisees ought to do the weightier matters along with tithing. He said that because they were still in the old testament. They were still under the law. The law of Moses ended with the death and resurrection of Jesus. Jesus himself lived in the old testament. He was speaking to old testament people. These things are so simple and clear, you need help to actually misunderstand it. Jesus performed old testament offering of animals along with the Jews. But after he resurrected, all that stopped. The veil of the temple was split in two and a new testament was ushered in. Praise God. Gal 3:13 declares that Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us! If you preach that a new testament believer is cursed because he didn't give his tithe, you are trying to negate salvation.

double post

^^^^^^
I did not come here to preach. I came here to back the belief on why I tithe and give offerings based on the word of God. And this does not affect my other givings in any way.
It was not me that said Malachi 3:8, so why are you feeling threatened? I am not God that said He was robbed in TITHES AND OFFERINGS but based on His word I follow it and this was further confirmed by Jesus and Paul. Simple. And Abraham the Father of Faith tithed.

That is the funny thing, when you quote scriptures they say out of context, when you don't they say I am the one saying.

No need to be afraid in your belief. I am not afraid in mine, I have the sure word. I have not even given all I know on this subject yet see the reaction. It is ok.
Thanks.

Alwaystrue:
Like I said it is obvious many have still not read the thread. All these questions have been answered. God spoke about TITHES AND OFFERINGS...not just tithes in (Malachi 3: 8 ).....TITHES AND OFFERINGS have been given since the time of Abraham. If you do not have a problem with offerings then I really wonder why tithes is the issue....that is the hypocrisy of it all.

Give us ONE SCRIPTURE where what the early church and CHRISTIANS gave in worship gatherings was called OFFERINGS.

Alwaystrue: ^^^^^^
I did not come here to preach. I came here to back the belief on why I tithe and give offerings based on the word of God. And this does not affect my other givings in any way.
It was not me that said Malachi 3:8, so why are you feeling threatened? I am not God that said He was robbed in TITHES AND OFFERINGS but based on His word I follow it and this was further confirmed by Jesus and Paul. Simple. And Abraham the Father of Faith tithed.

That is the funny thing, when you quote scriptures they say out of context, when you don't they say I am the one saying.

No need to be afraid in your belief. I am not afraid in mine, I have the sure word. I have not even given all I know on this subject yet see the reaction. It is ok.
Thanks.

If you Malachi applies to Christians bring God's tithe HOW ABOUT DEUTERONOMY 14 THAT SAYS EAT YOUR TITHE?

Alwaystrue: ^^^^^^
I did not come here to preach. I came here to back the belief on why I tithe and give offerings based on the word of God. And this does not affect my ofther givings in any way.
It was not me that said Malachi 3:8, so why are you feeling threatened? I am not God that said He was robbed in TITHES AND OFFERINGS but based on His word I follow it and this was further confirmed by Jesus and Paul. Simple.
No need to be afraid in your belief. I am not afraid in mine, I have the sure word.
Thanks.

Feel threatened ke? You are funny.

Was Malachi 3:10 written to you? Are you a Jew? Even the Jews dont tithe today because they know clearly that you cannot tithe outside of the Levitical priesthood. The congregation tithed to theLevites, and the Levites tithed to the priests. Is your pastor a high priest? Is he a mediator between God and men? Are you not a priest. Are you aware that priests dont tithe?

The sad part about those preaching tithing is that they dont even preach tithing as the bible prescribes. They preach their own version of tithing. Here is the bible's old testament tithing.

Deut 14

22 “You must set aside a tithe of your crops—one-tenth of all the crops you harvest each year. 23 Bring this tithe to the designated place of worship—the place the Lord your God chooses for his name to be honored—and eat it there in his presence. This applies to your tithes of grain, new wine, olive oil, and the firstborn males of your flocks and herds. Doing this will teach you always to fear the Lord your God.

24 “Now when the Lord your God blesses you with a good harvest, the place of worship he chooses for his name to be honored might be too far for you to bring the tithe. 25 If so, you may sell the tithe portion of your crops and herds, put the money in a pouch, and go to the place the Lord your God has chosen. 26 When you arrive, you may use the money to buy any kind of food you want—cattle, sheep, goats, wine, or other alcoholic drink. Then feast there in the presence of the Lord your God and celebrate with your household. 27 And do not neglect the Levites in your town, for they will receive no allotment of land among you.

Convenant university pre-degree form is out call:08147279803 for help.

Why do some Christians think God is like an olopa- Nigerian policeman- to whom you pay a BRIBE so he can assist (bless) you
Is the Almighty God such a cheap person?
Why should anyone serve such a God?

Alwaystrue:
Like I said it is obvious many have still not read the thread. All these questions have been answered.

have done that and i can confirm nothing been answered.

Alwaystrue:
God spoke about TITHES AND OFFERINGS...not just tithes in (Malachi 3: 8 ).....TITHES AND OFFERINGS have been given since the time of Abraham. If you do not have a problem with offerings then I really wonder why tithes is the issue....that is the hypocrisy of it all.

I know of the following offerings in the O.T:
1. Burnt offering
2. Sin Offering
3. Peace offering
4. Trespass offering
5. Grain offering

Lets not forget the temple tax (AKA atonement money) paid by Israelite.

Exodus 30:11-16 (NIV)
11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “When you take a census of the Israelites to count them, each one must pay the Lord a ransom for his life at the time he is counted. Then no plague will come on them when you number them. 13 Each one who crosses over to those already counted is to give a half shekel,[a] according to the sanctuary shekel, which weighs twenty gerahs. This half shekel is an offering to the Lord. 14 All who cross over, those twenty years old or more, are to give an offering to the Lord. 15 The rich are not to give more than a half shekel and the poor are not to give less when you make the offering to the Lord to atone for your lives. 16 Receive the atonement money from the Israelites and use it for the service of the tent of meeting. It will be a memorial for the Israelites before the Lord, making atonement for your lives.”

Now which of the offerings above is being paid in your church? Because some churches term their collections offering does not imply they are adhering to some O.T commands. the reason people don't criticize offering is because they are not paying O.T offerings. Tithe is criticized because you see it as a response to O.T commands meant for the Jews alone. why is that difficult for you to understand?

idnoble135: It is well. See the way i was singled out when i made my stance known, lol. It is well.
As the days go by, i'd trust to make posts. I've read threads where it is told that Jesus never tithed, yet He did. I've read threads where it is told that tithe is self righteousness... Lol! Tithe is not self righteousness, its not, it bigger than that.
Thanks to the pro tithe and anti tithe whose posts forced me to search out scriptures for my self.
Like my first post on this thread states, Jesus never cancelled tithes, if it was the Father's will, Jesus will have been prompted to specifically cancel it. He already cancelled the early view on divorce, murder, lust etc. But it came to tithe and there was no, "BUT I SAY UNTO YOU", rather, it was "THESE THINGS YE OUGHT TO DO". That to me is the biggest evidence in line with the thread, why tithe still exists.
And with this, i think i'm done with the thread.

So you've based your findings largely on this text. Have you heard about the term 'Principle of Hermeneutics,Exigesis,and Eisegesis'?
Didn't want to get embroiled on this whole 'tithe' issue,but I've been following the argument from both sides of the divide and while I laud the efforts of both the antagonists (sic) and protagonists (sic) I dare say you Sir,has got some more digging to do should you be so inclined (which by the way I feel would come as a welcome gesture to you judging by your demeanour with regard to the thread. You strike me as one with a mind open to fresh knowledge,ideas,and concepts) with regard to the issue at hand.
May wade in should time allow.

Goshen360:

Give us ONE SCRIPTURE where what the early church and CHRISTIANS gave in worship gatherings was called OFFERINGS.

"Now after many years I came to bring alms to my nation, and offerings"

(Acts 24:17).

Paul collected offerings for the Jerusalem church but it seems the anti tithers have a phobia for the words offerings, just as they detest the word tithe. There must be something in the tithe that makes the devil fight it this hard.

OLAADEGBU:

(Acts 24:17).

Paul collected offerings for the Jerusalem church but it seems the anti tithers have a phobia for the words offerings, just as they detest the word tithe. There must be something in the tithe that makes the devil fight it this hard.

There is nothing like anti tithers. It isnt about what people think. The word of God does not command us to tithe. If tithing was important in the new testament, it would have been commanded. Every ordinance that was important was instructed. Breaking of bread, baptism, ordaining of pastors and deacons, etc. Tithing was never instituted or instructed once in the new testament. It was only mentioned in Hebrews 4 where Paul was teaching about the priesthood of our Lord Jesus. He used the Abraham incidence to explain priesthood of Jesus. He never said we should tithe or did he mention that he also tithed. There is no instruction to tithe so why make it up? Why are you adding to God's Word? It is a serious sin. See revelations 22

The scriptural refrences to the issue would take some time in unraveling and as such should anyone care to raise a point based on scriptural exegesis and not allusions,conjectures,or 'gut-feeling',please feel free to post such,then we can take it from there.
BTW I see little reason for all the tithe drama.It's a doctrine,and christian organisations have always and will always differ in doctrine. As long as said doctrines are not in variance with revealed scriptural doctrines (read: cardinal evangelical doctrines and themes) I see no reason to sweat the issue.

OLAADEGBU:

(Acts 24:17).

Paul collected offerings for the Jerusalem church but it seems the anti tithers have a phobia for the words offerings, just as they detest the word tithe. There must be something in the tithe that makes the devil fight it this hard.

What Paul collected is called collections for d saint NOT offerings. Try again, Olodo!!!

Alwaystrue:
@theoctopus
In both lights that Jesus castigated those tithing I hope you noted He gave reasons why?

Also did you notice for instance one said he fast twice a week, yet we also know Jesus said 'This goesth not out but by fasting and prayer' so was he castigating fasting there? The guy was just being pompous and pointing out the other sinner to God.

In the other, He said they were tithing and neglecting the weigtheir aspects of the law....but did you see what He concluded with....He said they should do both (loving, justice, mercy, tithing) and I hope you know tithing was not done only by the Pharisees? In that place there was even a multitude.

You really should do away with this talk that Jesus said this or that......... It's not enough to say because Jesus mentioned it, then Christians should adopt it. Jesus told the pharisees to tithe yes, tithe what? answer: tithe according to the law. He did not say tithe 10% of your income/salary, he said tithe as stated in the mosaic law!

and what was the tithe according to the law? visit Leviticus 27:30-33

Leviticus 27:30-33 (NIV)
30 “‘A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord; it is holy to the Lord. 31 Whoever would redeem any of their tithe must add a fifth of the value to it. 32 Every tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod—will be holy to the Lord. 33 No one may pick out the good from the bad or make any substitution. If anyone does make a substitution, both the animal and its substitute become holy and cannot be redeemed.’”

The tithe above is the tithe required of the Jesus target audience. - “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin............" - the teachers of the law tithe/pharisees tithe vegetables as required by law.

You should also consider the recipient/beneficiary of the tithe Jesus was referring to: visit Numbers 18:24

Numbers 18:24 (NIV)
24 Instead, I give to the Levites as their inheritance the tithes that the Israelites present as an offering to the Lord. That is why I said concerning them: ‘They will have no inheritance among the Israelites.’”

The tithe goes to the tribe of levi (not priest) as their inheritance. you read the bolded? the levite inherited the tithe because the levite will have no inheritance among the Israelites. Read it from the Lord himself in Numbers 18:20 "The Lord said to Aaron, “You will have no inheritance in their land, nor will you have any share among them; I am your share and your inheritance among the Israelites"

If God has not revised the sharing formula, if he has not revoked his will regarding ownership of the tithe, why are you trying to claim what belong to the levites (as inheritance) and give to your pastor? tell me

Also note that the tithe as defined by God himself goes to the Levites not priest. The priest received a tithe of tithe i.e. 10% of 10% or 1% of the initial tithe remitted by the Israelite. It is the Levites that tithe to the priest not the people. see Numbers 18:27-29

Numbers 18:25-29 (NIV)
25 The Lord said to Moses, 26 “Speak to the Levites and say to them: ‘When you receive from the Israelites the tithe I give you as your inheritance, you must present a tenth of that tithe as the Lord’s offering. 27 Your offering will be reckoned to you as grain from the threshing floor or juice from the winepress. 28 In this way you also will present an offering to the Lord from all the tithes you receive from the Israelites. From these tithes you must give the Lord’s portion to Aaron the priest. 29 You must present as the Lord’s portion the best and holiest part of everything given to you.’

Jesus told the pharisees that they ought to tithe because the law requires it at the time and Jesus lived under the law. @Alwaystrue, are you living your Christian life according to the law of moses? under what law are you required to tithe today? please tell us.

Goshen360:

What Paul collected is called collections for d saint NOT offerings. Try again, Olodo!!!

You saw what Acts 24:17 called it and you are still being contumacious.

theoctopus:
I am sorry but you seem to be interpreting the Word of God to suit your purpose. Why are you trying to explain God's word to fit your doctrine? It is self explanatory. It is only when a man is trying to create a wrong doctrine out of it that he starts to create meanings which are not there. Jesus was very clear, He called tithing a lesser matter of the law and said the pharisees ought to do the weightier matters along with tithing. He said that because they were still in the old testament. They were still under the law. The law of Moses ended with the death and resurrection of Jesus. Jesus himself lived in the old testament. He was speaking to old testament people. These things are so simple and clear, you need help to actually misunderstand it. Jesus performed old testament offering of animals along with the Jews.

I agree with you @ bolded. Matthew 23:23 is so clear and simple that scripture twisters actually need assistance to mis-understand that part of scripture.

4C2215131: The scriptural refrences to the issue would take some time in unraveling and as such should anyone care to raise a point based on scriptural exegesis and not allusions,conjectures,or 'gut-feeling',please feel free to post such,then we can take it from there.
BTW I see little reason for all the tithe drama.It's a doctrine,and christian organisations have always and will always differ in doctrine. As long as said doctrines are not in variance with revealed scriptural doctrines (read: cardinal evangelical doctrines and themes) I see no reason to sweat the issue.

The problem with discussing on an online forum as this is that you have to be sure you are actually discussing with Christians who believe in the total authority of the bible and not some church members trying to push their church doctrine. If you are born again and truly believe in the authority of God's Word, then we can really discuss.

There are doctrinal differences among Christians, but there are basic doctrines that completely determine if we can even discuss or not. If for example, you do not believe in the saving grace of our Lord Jesus, then we have no basis of discussion and you cannot term out differences, doctrinal. The problem with the teaching of tithe is that it isnt just a doctrinal difference. It is a doctrine that seeks to negate the principles of salvation. Now, they even preach that tithers wont make heaven. Very terrible heresy going on. When you quote Malachi 3:10 and say a new testament Christian is cursed when he doesnt pay tithe, you negate the work of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is heresy. It is doctrines of devils. When you say that a man gets blessed because of his tithing, you negate the work of Jesus Christ and the principles of salvation. Even in the old testament, their prosperity was not based on their tithing. The Israelites never paid tithes until they reached the promised land. The paying of tithes was tied to the farminf and havesting in the promised land. They received complete provision and care from God for 40 years in the wilderness without paying a single tithe. They lived in total health and wellness for 40 years without paying tithe. God has never tied his blessing to tithing. He didnt do it in Genesis or Exodus so why would he do it in Malachi. Malachi was written to chide the Jews for backsliding and wasnt just about tithe. The problem of tithe in Malachi arose because the levites and priests had to abandon the temple to go farm and get food for their families. Tithing was never money. It was food crops and animals. Deut 14:22-26 shows that clearly. It was an offering to God and not just something to be given to levites and priests. So much has been twisted about tithing today because the proponents are using it for their won agenda

Alwaystrue:
It was not me that said Malachi 3:8, so why are you feeling threatened? I am not God that said He was robbed in TITHES AND OFFERINGS

It was you that said malachi 3:8 and it was never meant for you, it was not you that said he was robbed in tithes and offerings and God was not referring to you. It was meant for those that were required to tithe under the law. It was meant for the Israelite (the people under the law at the time). so why are you bothered?

If God did not accuse the gentiles for not tithing according to the law that was not meant for them, why do you think God will condemn Christians for not adhering to a law that been abolished?

@Zikky, I am not going to rationalise the word of God with you as there are enough quoted scriptures here which you can confirm in your bible and with God. You do not need to follow what I showed from the word pr in the various contexts, just as you have your stand, I have mine. Everything is explained and I went to great detail to provide the word on them.
The only person acting bothered is you actually.
Good that you checked the scriptures up though. Thanks.

OLAADEGBU:

You saw what Acts 24:17 called it and you are still being contumacious.

Read the question again:

Goshen360:

Give us ONE SCRIPTURE where what the early church and CHRISTIANS gave in worship gatherings was called OFFERINGS.

See your dubious answer:

Acts 24:17

OLAADEGBU:

(Acts 24:17).

Paul collected offerings for the Jerusalem church but it seems the anti tithers have a phobia for the words offerings, just as they detest the word tithe. There must be something in the tithe that makes the devil fight it this hard.

theoctopus:

The problem with discussing on an online forum as this is that you have to be sure you are actually discussing with Christians who believe in the total authority of the bible and not some church members trying to push their church doctrine. If you are born again and truly believe in the authority of God's Word, then we can really discuss.

There are doctrinal differences among Christians, but there are basic doctrines that completely determine if we can even discuss or not. If for example, you do not believe in the saving grace of our Lord Jesus, then we have no basis of discussion and you cannot term out differences, doctrinal. The problem with the teaching of tithe is that it isnt just a doctrinal difference. It is a doctrine that seeks to negate the principles of salvation. Now, they even preach that tithers wont make heaven. Very terrible heresy going on. When you quote Malachi 3:10 and say a new testament Christian is cursed when he doesnt pay tithe, you negate the work of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is heresy. It is doctrines of devils. When you say that a man gets blessed because of his tithing, you negate the work of Jesus Christ and the principles of salvation. Even in the old testament, their prosperity was not based on their tithing. The Israelites never paid tithes until they reached the promised land. The paying of tithes was tied to the farminf and havesting in the promised land. They received complete provision and care from God for 40 years in the wilderness without paying a single tithe. They lived in total health and wellness for 40 years without paying tithe. God has never tied his blessing to tithing. He didnt do it in Genesis or Exodus so why would he do it in Malachi. Malachi was written to chide the Jews for backsliding and wasnt just about tithe. The problem of tithe in Malachi arose because the levites and priests had to abandon the temple to go farm and get food for their families. Tithing was never money. It was food crops and animals. Deut 14:22-26 shows that clearly. It was an offering to God and not just something to be given to levites and priests. So much has been twisted about tithing today because the proponents are using it for their won agenda

You seem to get my previous remark wrong. We are actually on the same page.
I meant irrelevant doctrinal issues,not the core and cardinal doctrines of evangelical christianity.

In my opinion and humble has nothing to do with it,the doctrine of tithes is trivia when juxtaposed with weightier issues such as true salvation. That I pay and/or not pay my tithe has nothing to do with my fate at the two judgments-The Judgement Seat of Christ and The White Throne Judgement.

To he that require tithing tot fill fulfilled as a true practicing christian I say,tithe on! But please don't place a yoke on the other that don't as after a Careful,Painstaking,Rigorous,Meticulous,and Meditative study of the issue,Tithes as it is being touted from well meaning ministers of God is not binding on me. Don't know about you and I'm ready to meet with ANYONE no matter how well read,anointed,or placed to thrash out the issue utilising the Bible as my point of departure and secular documented facts with regards to the history and development of the concept.

Interesting read... Wonder how i got so busy. I'm still reading comments. Tomorrow is a good day. I should be free.
@Goshen and Candour, tomorrow is a good day. I never even expected the the thread to hit front page. We can discuss clearly when the traffic is down.

Please pardon the typographical errors on my last post. Just wanted to place a quick rejoinder to your post. Cheers.

The end time battle against the believers would not be about might or power because all powers belong to Jesus and believer have access to the power, the battle would be about wiles (crafty intelligence) and the battle field would be our mind. Some believers are so spiritually timid that they are afraid to question the essence and basis of their beliefs, the pastor said this, i was born into this, this has been my life. 2nd Tim. 2:15 says - Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Why should believers subject themselves to physical ordinances that Christ has delivered them from and also taught them to be free from? For those of you that comfortably sit in positions where nobody questions what you believe in then you are not a good student of the word. Jesus ministry was a radical change from the norms, He spent most of His times discussing,arguing and teaching the so called children of Abraham. Do not be afraid to research and challenge the status quo.

Contrary to what people said, Christ did not abolish the Law of Abraham, He fulfilled ALL requirements of that Law. The requirement of the Laws and ordinances of Abraham has ceased to exist !!! Jesus made it clear while referring to the Law of the Sabbath !!! He took the burden of the obligation of the Law and gave us His own requirements to attain righteousness. That why He said;

Matt 11;28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

2 Corinthians 9:1-15

New International Version (NIV)

9 There is no need for me to write to you about this service to the Lord’s people. 2 For I know your eagerness to help, and I have been boasting about it to the Macedonians, telling them that since last year you in Achaia were ready to give; and your enthusiasm has stirred most of them to action. 3 But I am sending the brothers in order that our boasting about you in this matter should not prove hollow, but that you may be ready, as I said you would be. 4 For if any Macedonians come with me and find you unprepared, we—not to say anything about you—would be ashamed of having been so confident. 5 So I thought it necessary to urge the brothers to visit you in advance and finish the arrangements for the generous gift you had promised. Then it will be ready as a generous gift, not as one grudgingly given.

6 Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to bless you abundantly, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. 9 As it is written:

“They have freely scattered their gifts to the poor;
their righteousness endures forever.”[a]

10 Now he who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will also supply and increase your store of seed and will enlarge the harvest of your righteousness. 11 You will be enriched in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion, and through us your generosity will result in thanksgiving to God.

12 This service that you perform is not only supplying the needs of the Lord’s people but is also overflowing in many expressions of thanks to God. 13 Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, others will praise God for the obedience that accompanies your confession of the gospel of Christ, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else. 14 And in their prayers for you their hearts will go out to you, because of the surpassing grace God has given you. 15 Thanks be to God for his indescribable gift!

Stop quoting the Laws of Moses and Abraham to satisfy your own ignorance like the Pharisees were doing !!! If you want to obey the Laws then do it completely, you cannot do one and leave the others!!! it is the hypocrisy Jesus was referring to in Matt 23:23

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.”

If you must obey the ordinances of tithing then you must obey all ordinances of the Law thereby nullifying the essence of Grace in your life.

Candour:



You're a fraud and I doubt you're a lady behind the moniker. You're the biggest proof on this thread that tithing for Christians is a fraud. Your inconsistencies and scriptural gymnastics give you away. I'm so thrilled to see other Christians who do not readily join these discussions give you answers.

You claim tithing is for Christians, yet all the apostles forgot to mention in all their epistles that Christians should pay it. Idumuose is only asking a rhetorical question my dear. He knows the answer already because he's seeing the light.

You should notice everybody has stopped responding to you because you're a joke. Go home and cook for your husband my dear and that is if you're really a woman.

Go and create another ID. You've lost whatever reputation you had with this one, at least with me.

i told u, Alwaystrue is Bidam, u u notice, when she post , Bidam is offlhne?

idnoble135: Interesting read... Wonder how i got so busy. I'm still reading comments. Tomorrow is a good day. I should be free.
@Goshen and Candour, tomorrow is a good day. I never even expected the the thread to hit front page. We can discuss clearly when the traffic is down.

Yes sir, in fact, I'm interested in that Hebrews 7 verse you quoted and there await you some questions. I'm ready when you ready. Hebrews 7 is the MESSAGE OF THE CROSS THAT NAILED THE COMMANDMENTS IN THE LAW OF TITHING. We will get there soon bro!!!

Candour: @idnoble

Pls ponder on this small write up and give yourself answers in your mind

Some things not written expressly in scripture but which can be stated without fear of contradiction based on old testament history and laws

1. Jesus would NEVER have received tithes when he was on earth because he was not from the tribe of Levi.

2. The apostles would NEVER have received tithes because non was a Levite or serving at the Temple.

They all knew what the law says. Remember the law was in full operation then and the Levitical priesthood was in charge. I can confidently say here that if they had tried collecting tithes from any body, the Jews whould have STONED THEM TO DEATH because it would have been Sacrilege.

DO YOU AGREE WITH THE ABOVE?

The question now comes, how could the early Christians have paid tithe? who would they have paid it to?

Catholic history records tithe as being resurrected at a council in Tours(567AD) and Macon(585AD). Does it mean that all the Christians who lived in that span of over 500 years all sinned and are going to hell?

idnoble, what do you think?

Even more importantly, How do these current day Pastors "Qualify to be Levites"?
*Dont they have inheritance? (Most of them have more money than the whole church members combined!)
*Most have "business" (established ofcourse with church money) that rake-in money for them

I tell you, these people are pimps and fraudsters!

Only that God's judgement is relatively SLOW! ..Otherwise......
But the "members" need to SHINE-YOUR-EYE!

The pastor cannot and should not be getting "fatter" while his members get "thinner".
No be so e be with Jesus o, he was just like his followers so much so it took the "kiss of death" to identify him among his followers for him to be arrested.

Can we say the same of our Pastors today?

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OLAADEGBU:

(Acts 24:17).

Paul collected offerings for the Jerusalem church but it seems the anti tithers have a phobia for the words offerings, just as they detest the word tithe. There must be something in the tithe that makes the devil fight it this hard.

@the bolded.
I agree with you 101% on this, so on-point.

Why would the "DEVIL" be so annoyed and fight so hard to "keep Tithe"?
How will the "Devil" buy his private jet, build mansions and maintain his extravagant lifestyle, if he does not fight over tithe this hard?

Now l know the Devil when l see him ...pronouncing curses on those who will not pay Tithe!
"he' stands on the pulpit fighting for his tithe!
That "Devil" is not only a fraudster, he is also a p.i.m.p.

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