Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles - Religion (10) - Nairaland
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"Stop Giving Offerings In Redeemed Churches If....." - Pastor Adeboye / Give Your 'Tithes' And Offerings To The Less Fortunate In Church / Tithes And Offerings (2) (3) (4)
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| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Enigma(m): 8:39pm On Sep 29, 2013 |
idnoble135: @Enigma, i owe you no explanation. If God is not exhibiting double standard as shown you in two different verses in Acts, why do you still say i have double standard. Those two instances are way out of the world different. Even the intent and principle are different. Biko, bring something new. You are right, you owe me no explanation and I accept that.  |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Alwaystrue(f): 8:40pm On Sep 29, 2013 |
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, AND have the testimony of Jesus Christ |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Nobody: 8:42pm On Sep 29, 2013 |
Enigma:Did not intend to be rude. Sorry if it sounded so. 1 Like |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Nobody: 9:00pm On Sep 29, 2013 |
idnoble135: |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Enigma(m): 9:04pm On Sep 29, 2013 |
I didn't take any offence my brother. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Enigma(m): 9:05pm On Sep 29, 2013 |
Moving on swiftly .... A propos this "principle" business: the principle of which "tithe" was Jesus talking about in Matthew 23:23? 1. Was it the "tithe" of Abram of Genesis 14? - If so, which war did the Pharisees fight and who was the Melchizedek that they were giving mint, anise and cummin to? - Or were they giving the mint, anise & cummin to Jesus?  - If not to Jesus, then who was the priest of the order of Melchizedek that they were giving them to? 2. Was it the tithing mentioned in Numbers? - Thus, were they giving the mint, anise & cummin to the Levites/Levitical priests? - Or, were the Pharisees giving mint, anise & cummin to Jesus? - If not to Jesus, who was the priest of the order of Melchizedek that they were giving them to? 3. Was it the tithe mentioned in Deuteronomy? - Thus, were they giving the mint, anise & cummin to widows, orphans, strangers and Levites as that book required? - Or, were the Pharisees giving mint, anise & cummin to Jesus? - If not to Jesus, who was the priest of the order of Melchizedek that they were giving them to? 4. Was it the tithe mentioned in Leviticus? - Thus, did they also give the very specific tenth animal under the rod? - If so, who did they give the tenth animal under the rod to? - Or, were the Pharisees giving the tenth animal plus mint, anise & cummin to Jesus? - If not to Jesus, who was the priest of the order of Melchizedek that they were giving them to? 5. Was it the tithe mentioned in Malachi? - If so what/where is the storehouse that they were bringing all the tithes to? - If this one is because of the "principle" of the Abram tithe, why was there a curse about devourers? - If this one is the "principle" of the Abram tithe, why would anyone be seen as "robbing God" when it was simply a matter of the Heart? - Can you be robbing God if you do not give voluntarily what God did not ask you for? 6. Was it the tithe mentioned in Nehemiah? - If so where/what is the storehouse? - If so, why is it that the tithes were to be brought to the Levites? - If so, why is it that the Levites were to bring a tenth of the tithes to the storehouse? (Not even the whole tithes but a tithe of the tithes!) 7. If it is "principle" of "tithes" more generally, why did Jesus never ask anybody to give/pay Him tithes? 8. If it is "principle" of "tithes" more generally, why did none of the apostles ever ask anybody to give/pay them tithes? Not even Paul --- who spoke a lot about giving? 3 Likes |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Nobody: 9:11pm On Sep 29, 2013 |
My battery is down. . See you all tomorrow. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Enigma(m): 9:12pm On Sep 29, 2013 |
Oh, one more! If the "tithe" of Matthew 23:23 is because of "principle": when did that principle become converted or applicable to money, kudi, cash among the Pharisees or Israelites? Where and when did the Pharisees or Israelites give money as "tithes" because of "principle"? 2 Likes |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Alwaystrue(f): 9:16pm On Sep 29, 2013 |
The Christians in Jerusalem gave all during the time of the apostles so they were giving 100% yet there were still complaints even within the widows when they did not get out of it. Strangely though it was not a law yet Ananias and Saphira kept part, lied and lost his life in the NT. In 1 Corinthians 9:3, Paul said some people were examining him (ARE WE SURPRISED GOING BY THE SAME LEVEL OF REASONING ON TITHE SEEN SO FAR) AND he decided not to use what He called a RIGHT, SO NO ONE WILL MAKE HIS GLORYING VOID....YES THE SELF-APPOINTED EXAMINERS OF PAUL. Still he received gifts one of which he even called a fragrant offering and acceptable sacrifice. Phil 4:18 and he blessed them in verse 19. Paul ws not afraid to use a burnt offering term to describe it. He understood it. Anything of great sacrifice is a burnt offering. Yes, even Paul understood the 'Principle'. The offering for the poor saints in Jerusalem in II Cor. 9 was because of the famine as they had been giving their all already (100%) so the offerings were given to help them, it was not meant to be continuous. It would go on till they got back to their feet. There were other poor saints in Macedonia who were so liberal and always willing to giving especially to Paul (2 Cor.8:1-7). |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Goshen360(m): 9:47pm On Sep 29, 2013 |
idnoble135: 1. Query the bible not me. I quoted the passage where it was said that the law was ordained to life. Why are you still insincere? The Romans you quoted, does it have 'eternal' added to the 'life'? That's the one in Romans I was referring to. # 2. Exactly what I'm saying - if Christ is the life, does the life in Romans as per the law ordained to give life mean the same life Christ came to give? If the law was ordained for life, what life did Christ came to give then? What I'm saying in simple language is, the life in that was ordained of the law is not the same life that Jesus came to give. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Enigma(m): 10:57pm On Sep 29, 2013 |
Now, I think we are entitled to ask how our brothers have never seen an "eternal principle" in respect of giving to the poor especially when we place Mark 10 21 in the context of the important passage in Matthew 25. Alright, if our brothers say that they also see an "eternal principle" in respect of giving to the poor, we will then ask: 1. Why is it that giving to the poor is not preached as vehemently and vociferously as tithing? 2. As between the "eternal principle" of tithing and the "eternal principle" of giving to the poor, which is more important? (Which even falls into weightier matters of the law such as justice and mercy and even faithfulness?) 3. Since we have found a way to make the "eternal principle" of tithing a monthly (or regular) affair, have we made the "eternal principle" of giving to the poor a monthly (or regular) affair? 4. How do we know what percentage we should use for the "eternal principle" of giving to the poor? Should we not also use 10% since it was commanded that at least one type of tithe was to be given to the poor? In that case, should we not also be giving 10% every month to comply with the other "eternal principle" of giving to the poor? 5. As between the "eternal principle" of tithing and the "eternal principle" of giving to the poor, which one did Jesus more directly instruct! Which one did Jesus more clearly instruct? 6. As between the "eternal principle" of tithes and the "eternal principle" of giving to the poor, which one even seems to be more directly linked to salvation or at least eternal rewards? 7. Did Jesus say anything about the "eternal principle" of tithing in such serious terms as He spoke about giving to the poor? Mark 10:21 Jesus said: “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” Matthew 25 34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ 37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ 40“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ PS Although this Mark 10:21 has taught a us a few things in this thread, I hope we return to a similar question that had earlier been asked by Candour about Matthew 23:3. I am now desperately interested in what technical means our friends will use to escape that one as they are trying to do with Mark 10:21!  3 Likes |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Goshen360(m): 11:13pm On Sep 29, 2013 |
^ @ Egbon Enigma, E Jo, e saanu bobo yen o. Question yen ti poju o. The way te fi n fa ida emi yo, ida le be bobo yen lori o.  |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Enigma(m): 11:13pm On Sep 29, 2013 |
As I dey go sleep make I do one last yeye! "Truly I say unto you, as long as you paid tithe to your pastor and Daddy G.O. you paid it to me". Whether pesin fit find that one inside Bible as we can clearly find it about the homeless, unclothed etc (aka the poor). @Goshen360, na you go be night guardsman with ya yankee time. 2 Likes |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Nobody: 11:22pm On Sep 29, 2013 |
I've read through. Whatever will not kill a person only makes the person stronger. I shall reply your posts tomorrow. @Goshen, let the questions come. No one asked for reduction. Hope you guys can answer mine too(though Enigma already dodged my questions). |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Enigma(m): 11:24pm On Sep 29, 2013 |
idnoble135: I've read through. Do you too have to resort to plain lying?  Issorait. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Nobody: 11:27pm On Sep 29, 2013 |
Enigma:I previously asked a question and you shoved it aside. Straight away concluding i lied... Oga o*sighs* |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Goshen360(m): 11:29pm On Sep 29, 2013 |
Enigma: As I dey go sleep make I do one last yeye! Trust me, I get sword of the Spirit here with me efen though I still dey work. I get arrows of the mighty too. I get Holy Ghost missile. I get breast plate of righteousness. Any suspect shall be captured and held bound until the dawn of the morning for all to see. Bros, you don try. Leave me make I do the guardsman for the rest of the night. All site safe and fully secured. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Enigma(m): 11:32pm On Sep 29, 2013 |
I took time out to answer questions you put to me --- which were even irrelevant. I guess you might be Is this the question? https://www.nairaland.com/1456343/tithes-offerings-eternal-principles/6#18445000 If so, you did not see reply here? https://www.nairaland.com/1456343/tithes-offerings-eternal-principles/8#18453763 So why are you lying like this. Ko buru! |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Nobody: 11:40pm On Sep 29, 2013 |
^^^ Was that the reply? SMH... Be sincere, this was your immediate response. You even quoted me and gave this as a reply. Enigma:Smh! Its well oh! |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Enigma(m): 11:46pm On Sep 29, 2013 |
Look, I am being rather patient with you. Am I right that it is this post you are referring to as your "question"? https://www.nairaland.com/1456343/tithes-offerings-eternal-principles/6#18445000 If that is the case, where is your question in that other than you saying "is it not revealing" or something like that? Can you not see that it was just an excuse of a rant that did not address the question that was put to you? Is that not why my initial response was what you quoted? And my post that I linked for you here https://www.nairaland.com/1456343/tithes-offerings-eternal-principles/8#18453763 do you want to say it does not address the post you are mouthing about? Honestly, I am being very patient with you here because you are making a clearly false allegation; even an ungrateful allegation after the trouble I took to answer what were actual questions from you. All good. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Nobody: 11:51pm On Sep 29, 2013 |
I already told you that i had questions for you and you said okay. Alright oh! This is going to be interesting. Lets assume i never asked. Tomorrow is going to be a good day. Good night. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Enigma(m): 11:53pm On Sep 29, 2013 |
No no no! You will have to withdraw your allegation; in fact the lie. You never asked a question that I did not answer other than the irrelevant "is it not revealing" --- after a pointless rant that avoided a question that had been put to you. If that is your way, and if you do not see it wrong, I am very sorry I will strenuously avoid conversing with you. Simples. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Nobody: 12:01am On Sep 30, 2013 |
Whatever you desire sir. But at the top of the quotation was the statement that read, and here for you. That was almost immediately i said i had questions. I gave that post not because of anything but to ask you to make comment on it. This to you is a lie. I also viewed otherwise. Whatsoever you would bro. Nevertheless, i'm going to respond to your questions later in day. Good morning. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Enigma(m): 12:05am On Sep 30, 2013 |
idnoble135: Whatever you desire sir. Whatever. To be clear, I did not and I do not consider that pointless post of yours to be a question. I actually maintain my original reply to the post. You are obviously incapable of seeing that you never asked a question other than the irrelevant "isn't that revealing?" after the pointless rant. In that case, I do not see it worth my while to converse with you. All the best. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Nobody: 12:09am On Sep 30, 2013 |
^^^ Bad things turned out this way. It is well. I bid you good speed. 1 Like |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Alwaystrue(f): 6:38am On Sep 30, 2013 |
Matthew 5:29-30 29 If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30"If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell In as much as this scripture has a much deeper meaning and intent, the 'joke' is on those who take it literarily for the bible says: Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry Luke 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh James 1:14-15 14But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust . 15Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. Lust is not a tangible thing and this is what conceives sin. Our hand or eye does not literarily cause us to sin. It is comes from much deeper within...lack of love. If taking it literarily, may be Eve would have also said that it was her HAND that caused her to sin by plucking the fruit, meanwhile after she was tempted by the devil, she looked at the tree again and saw it differently....yes, no more in love of God and His word but with lust....it suddenly was good to the eyes, good for food and was able to make one wise....lust of the eye, lust of the flesh and pride of life. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Alwaystrue(f): 7:06am On Sep 30, 2013 |
And let us hear the conclusion of the matter: Matthew 25:34-37,40 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me Least of the brethen is anyone from poor, needly, widow, ministers of God, family, friends, 'enemies', your workers....anyone you are in possession to help at any time. Loving our neighbour....nothing is substituted for the other....let us reach out to all as much as lies with us. Malachi 3:5 5 “At that time I will put you on trial. I am eager to witness against all sorcerers and adulterers and liars. I will speak against those who cheat employees of their wages, who oppress widows and orphans, or who deprive the foreigners living among you of justice, for these people do not fear me,” says the Lord of Heaven’s Armies Proverbs 19:7 Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will repay him for his deed James 5:4 Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty Mark 9:41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward I Timothy 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel Philipians 4:14 Nevertheless, you have done well to share with me in my affliction Romans 12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head I Corinthians 9:4,14 4 Do we not have the right to eat and drink? 9 For it is written in the Law of Moses: “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain. Is it about oxen that God is concerned? 10 Surely he says this for us, doesn’t he? 14 In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel Malachi 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. Isaiah 58:6-7 6 No, this is the kind of fasting I want: Free those who are wrongly imprisoned; lighten the burden of those who work for you. Let the oppressed go free, and remove the chains that bind people 7 Share your food with the hungry, and give shelter to the homeless. Give clothes to those who need them, and do not hide from relatives who need your help Thank you. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by idumuose(m): 1:03pm On Sep 30, 2013 |
Alwaystrue: 2 Corinthians 2:15-16Are Ɣ☺u saying anytime Ɣ☺u see commandments in the bible,it means The ten commandments or the commandments in the O.T? 1Jn3vs22-24(NKJV) .......because we keep his commandments and do those Things that are pleasing in his sight.V23 And this is his commandments:that We should believe on the name of the lord and love one another.... Read verse 24. Like Goshen said Ɣ☺u can limit commandments to 10commandments or The ordinances. Check my profile and Ɣ☺u will realise that this is my first post on religion in NL.I really thank God for directing me to this section of nL as I hv always limited My interest to politics. Having read the write ups on pro tithe and anti tithe,I have come to realise that our pastors have been making a merchandise of us on tithes and offering. If Ɣ☺u think that anti tithe brethren here are not winning people to their side then Ɣ☺u are living in denial.it is a pity that our pastors have brought us to this sorry state.Someone here said 'no matter how far lies and deceit have travelled, the truth will eventually overtake it.No wonder Nigeria is in this sorry state. Thanks to Christeembassey,frosbel,Goshen,pastor kun and other brethren whose Eyes have been opened to this fraud called tithe. My sisters at home,3 of them have sworn not to pay tithes again,instead they will give their pastor a seed and then give the rest to brethre who are needy. 2 Likes |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Alwaystrue(f): 1:15pm On Sep 30, 2013 |
@idumuose, No problem. Please do as you purpose. I think the entire thread is sufficient enough to make the decision. But first take time to read the gospels and see the commanments Jesus kept talking about and the revelations He gave concerning them. That is all I will say. Thanks .By the way I forgot to add: I John 3:23-24 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us Please study the words of Jesus indept and gain understanding of what LOVE means indeed and the difference between COMMANDMENT and COMMANDMENTS....Thanks. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Candour(m): 1:16pm On Sep 30, 2013 |
idumuose: Thank God for you. Surely not everybody will see the light, but no matter how few those who do are, we will continue spreading the truth that Tithing is NOT for Christians but more importantly, the Tithing in practice today is A MONUMENTAL FRAUD and total CORRUPTION of the practice given to Isreal as a law. God bless you bro 1 Like |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by PastorKun(m): 1:17pm On Sep 30, 2013 |
idumuose:
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| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by idumuose(m): 1:24pm On Sep 30, 2013 |
Candour:Thanks bro.But if tithe was this important why didn't Paul as much as mention it?Paul taught more about giving yet he didn't mention tithe.Maybe he forgot to mention it.Peter,James,John never mentioned it if it was that 'Very important'. 2 Likes |
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