PAGAN 9JA:



politics, jobs, fitting into "modern" society, money-business.

http://www.rof-worldwide.com/origin.html

Read!

Bloody ignoramuses!

FOLYKAZE:

You said it all bro..... I dont need to say much anymore.

@ Nativeboy, if you read the OP very well, you will understand I am not preaching any religion but sending a call or message to Africans to hold what belong to them. This message cut across atheism to Islam and christianity.

Also I dont do cherry picking. I chose the best verse to backup my points.....you cant expect me to quote whole bible here. If there are anything wrong in my bible quote, kindly show me.

Writing this was a motivation from the biography of rev. Ogunbiyi who founded Reform Ogboni frat. He was a christian, he lead churches and was highly respect. Despite, he didn't ignore Asebaye. They still worship Orisa in Ogboni today and I am proud I saw some pastors there too.

You were a christian because you were indoctrinated. You didn't make the choice. How long are you going to stand against your fathers?

Considering your query on sin...... In yoruba, sin is more social and cultural. In term of spirituality, it temper with your Ori. Have you every heard 'oun a ba gbin la n ka, asegbe kan o si' meaning whatever you sow you reap, there is no cause without an effect. That is why you have your Ori to guild you and stay by you in everything. Your Ori is your saviour......why are you ignoring it for another jew who doesn't care about you?

Gentlemen,

You are actually proving my point. Indeed all cultures have their own moral codes but what happens when someone breaks that moral code (sin), is it just a matter of saying sorry and we all move on? Again, no society's moral code adequately deals with the issue of sin.

You talk about the law of karma that is found in all societies. Where is the karma for the little girls in Congo being raped and killed and for the perpetrators that are never brought to justice? You have to see that what you are saying is that there is a self-dispensing justice system that balances good and evil in the world. This is simply not true.

Your main point though is that why do those such as myself reject our ancestral religion in favor of a foreign one. I will answer by asking you this question: why do you use the Internet when it was created by westerners. Why do you prefer (I assume) to have electricity instead of candlelight or lanterns? After all, these were brought to us by foreigners. So you see that you cannot reject something on the basis of it being foreign, especially when that foreign thing is superior. Now please do not take that to mean that I am saying that foreigners are superior to us. That is simply not true. What I am saying is that until Judeo-Christian God revealed himself to the world through Jesus Christ, it was entirely fine for each society to practice its own religions.

Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, (Acts 17:30 NKJV)

But now that Christ has come, all should come to him because he is not the God of the Jews alone but the God of all:

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. (John 3:16 NKJV)

If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. (John 15:22 NKJV)

I hope i have been able to make my points clear.

@ NativeBoy

I need to know if you are a yoruba cuz I can best explain sin according to yoruba spirituality....so you might not understand me if you aint yoruba. Also, dont get me wrong cuz you might take this as tribalistic or hideous game......most yoruba words do not have direct english vocabulary.

Every individual have their Ori.
What ever you do affect your Ori either positively or negatively.

So I think if you know what Ori is as Yoruba, you will bring in the law of cause and effect. I think thats what pagan9ja called karma.

Lets reason about your questions......what happened to catholic priest after molesting a young boy? What has happened to those christians going against social moral code?

There is social and natural law that deal with sinners and there are also spiritual laws that balance the Ori.

For better understanding, the closest english vocabulary that best explain Ori is consciousness or 'me-ness'.


Yeah you were saying foreigners brought electricity, internet and others. Do you know civilization sprang out of Africa? Do you know the technology that gave birth to electricity was first develop in Africa? Do you know the coding of computer machine is base on binary codes and this is embedded in Ifa? This is what we are saying charging Africans to know themselves and their ancestral heritage. I have told atheist on this forum about the ancient technological developments in Africa before the other world developed it. Ifa is complex 5th generation computer while Osanyin is the 6th generation computer. I challenge you to provide any machine with artificial intelligence and I will provide you Osanyin built thousands of years ago by African.....yoruba specifically.

You were also asking why are we using electricity. Note, development of electricity started from Africa, why wont I use it when I paid for it? If I have problem with their products, since I have the materials and intelligence, why cant I rebrand and develop it? Japan are building their machine on their patterns. It takes only African to rebrand what they got. Our medicine, politics and social structures do not have comparability in other world.....so the question is why do we ignore what belong to us without improvement for what others own?


And lastly, if you want to deal with folykaze, dont bring bible to his face cuz he will shred it totally. Is it the word WORLD in john 3:16 that is giving you headache? Let me break it down.

1. According to http://i.word.com/idictionary/world, World is defined as 7 a: a division or generation of the inhabitants of the earth distinguished by living together at the same place or at the same time <the medieval world>
b: a distinctive class of persons or their sphere of interest or activity <the academic world> <the digital world>. Here you should understand the term World does not necessarily mean the whole earth.... I will accept your whole earth definition if you can provide another verse that back your points.

So from dictionary, it stated that World could mean distinctive part or group of people. So my point is from dictionary meaning, World in the john 3:16 could mean Jew/Israelites.

2. Another evidence to prove that 'World' mean group of people or race or tribe is found in the bible.

Isaiah 45:17
King James Version (KJV)
17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

^^^From the above verse, can you say world mean whole Earth in that context? It is glaring that World in that context mean Israelites or Jew.

3. The word translated "world" in John 3:16 is the Greek word "kosmos." The word never means "every individual of mankind who ever lived." In fact, the word has at least seven different meanings in the scripture, depending on the context in which it's used. It can mean Gentiles (as opposed to Jews); it can mean the world of believers; it can mean the world of unbelievers; it can mean the physical creation; etc. So who the points are directed at can be define by Jesus and God which are found in Matthew 24:15 and Deut 6:7 respectively.

From the three points above, it is concluded that john 3:16 was directed to the world of Jew and not the entire earth. You can prove me wrong.


And the John 15:22 you quoted mentioned 'them'.....who are 'them'? They are the Jews/Israelites according to John 4:22 and Matthew 10:5-6. I dont see how 'them' apply to and you. And Israelites aint a person but group of people so 'them' is the best word to use which doesn't apply to you.

From the whole points, you have shown you read world out of context without serious and critical examinations. Jesus or bible God isn't for you. World technology and civilization sprang out of Africa.

What you display conclusively is inferiority mentality, brainwashing and ignorance. Hold unto what belong to ya buddy.

FOLYKAZE: @ NativeBoy

I need to know if you are a yoruba cuz I can best explain sin according to yoruba spirituality....so you might not understand me if you aint yoruba. Also, dont get me wrong cuz you might take this as tribalistic or hideous game......most yoruba words do not have direct english vocabulary.

Every individual have their Ori.
What ever you do affect your Ori either positively or negatively.

So I think if you know what Ori is as Yoruba, you will bring in the law of cause and effect. I think thats what pagan9ja called karma.

Lets reason about your questions......what happened to catholic priest after molesting a young boy? What has happened to those christians going against social moral code?

There is social and natural law that deal with sinners and there are also spiritual laws that balance the Ori.

For better understanding, the closest english vocabulary that best explain Ori is consciousness or 'me-ness'.


Yeah you were saying foreigners brought electricity, internet and others. Do you know civilization sprang out of Africa? Do you know the technology that gave birth to electricity was first develop in Africa? Do you know the coding of computer machine is base on binary codes and this is embedded in Ifa? This is what we are saying charging Africans to know themselves and their ancestral heritage. I have told atheist on this forum about the ancient technological developments in Africa before the other world developed it. Ifa is complex 5th generation computer while Osanyin is the 6th generation computer. I challenge you to provide any machine with artificial intelligence and I will provide you Osanyin built thousands of years ago by African.....yoruba specifically.

You were also asking why are we using electricity. Note, development of electricity started from Africa, why wont I use it when I paid for it? If I have problem with their products, since I have the materials and intelligence, why cant I rebrand and develop it? Japan are building their machine on their patterns. It takes only African to rebrand what they got. Our medicine, politics and social structures do not have comparability in other world.....so the question is why do we ignore what belong to us without improvement for what others own?


And lastly, if you want to deal with folykaze, dont bring bible to his face cuz he will shred it totally. Is it the word WORLD in john 3:16 that is giving you headache? Let me break it down.

1. According to http://i.word.com/idictionary/world, World is defined as 7 a: a division or generation of the inhabitants of the earth distinguished by living together at the same place or at the same time <the medieval world>
b: a distinctive class of persons or their sphere of interest or activity <the academic world> <the digital world>. Here you should understand the term World does not necessarily mean the whole earth.... I will accept your whole earth definition if you can provide another verse that back your points.

So from dictionary, it stated that World could mean distinctive part or group of people. So my point is from dictionary meaning, World in the john 3:16 could mean Jew/Israelites.

2. Another evidence to prove that 'World' mean group of people or race or tribe is found in the bible.

Isaiah 45:17
King James Version (KJV)
17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

^^^From the above verse, can you say world mean whole Earth in that context? It is glaring that World in that context mean Israelites or Jew.

3. The word translated "world" in John 3:16 is the Greek word "kosmos." The word never means "every individual of mankind who ever lived." In fact, the word has at least seven different meanings in the scripture, depending on the context in which it's used. It can mean Gentiles (as opposed to Jews); it can mean the world of believers; it can mean the world of unbelievers; it can mean the physical creation; etc. So who the points are directed at can be define by Jesus and God which are found in Matthew 24:15 and Deut 6:7 respectively.

From the three points above, it is concluded that john 3:16 was directed to the world of Jew and not the entire earth. You can prove me wrong.


And the John 15:22 you quoted mentioned 'them'.....who are 'them'? They are the Jews/Israelites according to John 4:22 and Matthew 10:5-6. I dont see how 'them' apply to and you. And Israelites aint a person but group of people so 'them' is the best word to use which doesn't apply to you.

From the whole points, you have shown you read world out of context without serious and critical examinations. Jesus or bible God isn't for you. World technology and civilization sprang out of Africa.

What you display conclusively is inferiority mentality, brainwashing and ignorance. Hold unto what belong to ya buddy.

Aww man come on, now you're not being sincere. The meaning of "world" is clear as day. You're attempting to use linguistic hocus-pocus to shroud clear meaning.

In any case, I am intrigued by done the statements you made. Can you please provide some texts that I can read that show that electricity has African origins, binary code is embedded in Ifa, Osanyi is a 6th generation computer, etc. I am as Afro-centric as the next guy but I don't engage in revisionism. I know civilization sprang out from Africa so I don't need any text on that part.

Yes, I am Yoruba so i understand the concept on ori.

Mr President:

http://www.rof-worldwide.com/origin.html

Read!

Bloody ignoramuses!

Isn't this what you are trying to show us from the site you provided?

The original name of the fraternity was EGBE "OGBONI ONIGBAGBO " which means in English language "OGBONI FRATERNITY OF THE CHRISTIANS".

If you meant the above, then we can all have it that you are the dumbest person on earth. Let me educate you. Do you know what santeria is? That was the aim of Rev. Ogunbiyi; that is displaying Orisa practises more like christianity. As in bringing the two together. But do you bother to read the whole context on the link page?

The overall control of the fraternity is vested in the Olori Oluwo who is the HEAD of the ROF. He presides over all the meetings of the Supreme, Executiveand General Councils. The Olori Apena who is next in rank is the custodian of the rites, usages, and custom of the order.
The Supreme Council is the competent authority of the fraternity and its governing body. It is composed of the Olori Oluwo, Olori Apena, all the trustees, and those in charge of the region.
The Executive Council is composed of all the Alakoso of the division, the Oluwo. The Apena and Lisa of the premier conclave Ile-Nla and any such member or members of the fraternity not below the rank of Lisa as the Olori Oluwo and the supreme council may deem fit.

The bold include Olori Oluwo, Olori Apena and Lisa. Also from the link we still have Iya Abiye.... Are these was you called christian cult? Do you know the meaning of Oluwo or Apena? They are confirm Aborisa and held the major shrine in town. They are engage in rituals for the town or community. They are also powerful than the kings cuz they can open calabash at anytime for him. Are these christians? Lol.

And do you think Ogboni started really from Rev. Ogunbiyi? Guy you must be joking. Lol. Ogboni had been from generations among the Yoruba communities. What Rev. Ogunbiyi did was reformation of the cult.

So the Orisa they call 'Iya' in the cult is Jesus huh? How about the rituals before it is christian doctrine huh? The consulting of Oracles before doing anything is bible huh? Guy you are very very very foolish and completely brainwashed. Do you even know whom you are?

I task you to go back to your parents to tell you your history. Displaying foolishness and stupidity is a bad reputation for your parents. You are typical Omo ale Odua.

We know you are lost completely...... Being a slave in this age is unacceptable not to mention being suppressing self, birthright and identity into slavery is stupidity of highest order.

NativeBoy:

Aww man come on, now you're not being sincere. The meaning of "world" is clear as day. You're attempting to use linguistic hocus-pocus to shroud clear meaning.

lol. The Truth is scary and kinda hard to swallow. You can take what you want but the truth stand unless you prove me wrong. World does not necessarily mean whole earth. So if I say your world is paradise mean there is a special earth for ya? There are three evidence there, refute it man.

In any case, I am intrigued by done the statements you made. Can you please provide some texts that I can read that show that electricity has African origins, binary code is embedded in Ifa, Osanyi is a 6th generation computer, etc. I am as Afro-centric as the next guy but I don't engage in revisionism. I know civilization sprang out from Africa so I don't need any text on that part.

You need text and dont need text. What are you smoking?

Read about Electricity discovery on Wikipedia...... It started from Egypt and it premises.

About Ifa binary code.....get more informations here https://www.nairaland.com/1477407/ifa-ifa-practice-it-religion#18807997

Yes, I am Yoruba so i understand the concept on ori.

If you understand the concept of Ori, why dont you understand spiritual case of Ori and ese? You no not what you saying.

Can you explain how Ori came about if you know what you saying?

Can you please provide some text not written by yourself?

FOLYKAZE:

lol. The Truth is scary and kinda hard to swallow. You can take what you want but the truth stand unless you prove me wrong. World does not necessarily mean whole earth. So if I say your world is paradise mean there is a special earth for ya? There are three evidence there, refute it man.



You need text and dont need text. What are you smoking?

Read about Electricity discovery on Wikipedia...... It started from Egypt and it premises.

About Ifa binary code.....get more informations here https://www.nairaland.com/1477407/ifa-ifa-practice-it-religion#18807997



If you understand the concept of Ori, why dont you understand spiritual case of Ori and ese? You no not what you saying.

Can you explain how Ori came about if you know what you saying?

Can you please provide text written by someone other than yourself?

FOLYKAZE:

lol. The Truth is scary and kinda hard to swallow. You can take what you want but the truth stand unless you prove me wrong. World does not necessarily mean whole earth. So if I say your world is paradise mean there is a special earth for ya? There are three evidence there, refute it man.



You need text and dont need text. What are you smoking?

Read about Electricity discovery on Wikipedia...... It started from Egypt and it premises.

About Ifa binary code.....get more informations here https://www.nairaland.com/1477407/ifa-ifa-practice-it-religion#18807997



If you understand the concept of Ori, why dont you understand spiritual case of Ori and ese? You no not what you saying.

Can you explain how Ori came about if you know what you saying?

NativeBoy: Can you please provide text written by someone other than yourself?

Na wa o. So you are not different from Mr President that cant reason out of a book. This is the problem religious bigot are having. You think because something is written in a book mean it is truth huh? Lol so because I wrote it means you cant accept it. Are you waiting for foreigner to write it or what? Where is common sense here pls? Obviously it is a plain fact that if you want to hide something from black man, keep it in a book. I will provide list of some books.

'Africa un-slaved Volume II: The Free Africa Project' by Akin Adeseye. The link is http://www.google.com/url?q=http://freeafricaproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/AFRICA-UN-SLAVED-Volume-II-The-Free-Africa-Project1.pdf&sa=U&ei=FA98UuK9GOqW0AXug4HwCw&ved=0CCoQFjAH&sig2=lOm-ZUI_4xP-zeHG2KRGRA&usg=AFQjCNEX3WZvYSTJ68tYL6FSSFID-3nq6g . This is free so download and read.

Wande Abimbola, Ifa Will Mend Our Broken World (Aim Books, Boston, 1997). You can buy this in bookshops.

There is also a lecture taking by Prof Odeyemi about Ifa and computer. Here is the link https://www.facebook.com/notes/teekay-akin/what-is-ifa-a-lecture-by-prof-odeyemi/485508524819777?_e_pi_=7%2CPAGE_ID10%2C7423938486 read it cuz it free.

And where do you keep your common sense? If you know the principal Odu Ifa is 16 and it display in binary format. What is computer and digital format?
Divination involve group of sixteen Ikin, commonly known as sacred palm nuts, which are used to create binary data.........
Microprocessor Assembly Code is written in Hexadecimal (base 16) so what the difference?



Like I told a friend, though I read but I prefer deciphering experience and reasoning along. A lot of people can write anything.....that is there mind on paper. Go out there and get knowledge for yourself.

Pls explain the concept of Ori and how it came about. Stop dodging my challenge. Also prove me my analysing of WORLD is wrong. This running around bush cant be accepted.

NativeBoy: Can you please provide some text not written by yourself?

Adding on the electricity in spranging out African civilization

History of Electricity

Long before any knowledge of electricity existed people were aware of shocks from electric fish. Ancient Egyptian texts dating from 2750 BC referred to these fish as the "Thunderer of the Nile", and described them as the "protectors" of all other fish.
Several ancient writers, such as Pliny the Elder and Scribonius Largus, attested to the numbing effect of electric shocks delivered by catfish and torpedo rays, and knew that such shocks could travel along conducting objects. [ 3 ] Patients suffering from ailments such as goutor headache were directed to touch electric fish in the hope that the powerful jolt might cure them.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity

Do you know what Ifa says about Eja Ojiji and Sango? Lol.... If you want to understand Electric charges, how it operates through thunder and lightening, it is fully explained in Odu Okanran meji which gave birth to Sango.

Odu Okanran meji was brought down from Orunmila thousands of years ago because modern electricity. Only those that can reactivate their consciousness can understand this. And if you are looking for a book about this Odu, get 'Oju Odu merindinlogun' and do comparism between it message and theory of electricity, flow of charges and thunder.

Mr if you truely Yoruba, you know one you got lot to know. I am not claiming to know all but I am willing to learn more. If you want knowledge, acquire it with your five senses and not what some gullible minds put down. Cheers man

About Osayin.....the best I can say if truely you Yoruba is to consult priest that have it for observation for yourself.

There is this text titled MAGIC AND SCIENCE IN YORUBALAND.... You can download it here http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.unilorin.edu.ng/publications/abioje/8%2520MAGIC%2520AND%2520SCIENCE%2520IN%2520YORUBALAND.doc&sa=U&ei=vxx8UtaZJMa60QWzuYAw&ved=0CCwQFjAFOAo&sig2=DeSLSW0lhzIiMmNhRpz6Nw&usg=AFQjCNH5ZdHCBnrA8wVh2tPCBTgvkkJzjQ . It explain everything.

Have a nice time bro

Thanks for the resources. I'll definitely look into them. One thing about me is that I love to learn and that's why I don't need to devolve conversations into name-calling as you do. Truth will stand for itself. I suspect though that the way you have chosen to present this "knowledge" indicates that it is bunk but I will go along for now and read the texts you have provided.

In any case, to answer your question, Ori, as you said is an individual's essence. It's like their life force. It isn't unique to Yoruba tradition, other eastern cultures have similar concepts. You don't need to work do hard to try to prove what you know. I'll readily admit I'm not an expert in all things Ifa but now that you give provided some source text, we can check its merits.

You mock those who ask you to provide texts so how did you get your information? If it wasn't through written text, how would you know what to recommend to me?

FOLYKAZE:

Adding on the electricity in spranging out African civilization



Do you know what Ifa says about Eja Ojiji and Sango? Lol.... If you want to understand Electric charges, how it operates through thunder and lightening, it is fully explained in Odu Okanran meji which gave birth to Sango.

Odu Okanran meji was brought down from Orunmila thousands of years ago because modern electricity. Only those that can reactivate their consciousness can understand this. And if you are looking for a book about this Odu, get 'Oju Odu merindinlogun' and do comparism between it message and theory of electricity, flow of charges and thunder.

Mr if you truely Yoruba, you know one you got lot to know. I am not claiming to know all but I am willing to learn more. If you want knowledge, acquire it with your five senses and not what some gullible minds put down. Cheers man

NativeBoy: Thanks for the resources. I'll definitely look into them. One thing about me is that I love to learn and that's why I don't need to devolve conversations into name-calling as you do. Truth will stand for itself. I suspect though that the way you have chosen to present this "knowledge" indicates that it is bunk but I will go along for now and read the texts you have provided.

In any case, to answer your question, Ori, as you said is an individual's essence. It's like their life force. It isn't unique to Yoruba tradition, other eastern cultures have similar concepts. You don't need to work do hard to try to prove what you know. I'll readily admit I'm not an expert in all things Ifa but now that you give provided some source text, we can check its merits.

You mock those who ask you to provide texts so how did you get your information? If it wasn't through written text, how would you know what to recommend to me?

Lol. You have spoken the truth but I will disagree with some of your points here.

I dont think I call you name personally because the way you present your points from start on this thread shows that you have open mind and willing to learn. Though you holding on your 'defence and weakness attack' but I forced my way in without insulting you.

If it because of what I said against Mr President you pointing at, I am saying I aint sorry about every bash I bath him with. This is stick and carrot game so I think stick is the best for his like. He is insulting my ancestors by patching my history to Judah. He cant even prove is point than pointing to one useless book. You can insult me but I will take it as words; nevertheless, you cant insult my ancestors without striking you. So I think I gave him the best thing.

And the knowledge I present is bunk? Lol. After shredding your forces in bible, you didn't give me credits o. Lol. You are free to call the knowledge anything. Having it isn't final, understanding it is what you need.

Ori is not life force. Emi is the life force. You know we have Emi, Ara and Ori? Ori is more like soul. Philosophically, it your 'me-ness' or consciousness. You have not answered my questions but I wont hesistate to bother you much. I will take your points as the way you understand it.

Adding, I love those having open mind. I really like to hang around people that want to learn. Let me reveal one secret to you......i registered on this site and didn't post here for two and half years. Why? I am reading and liking people's post. I can remember those days I cant sleep without reading logicboy post. Though I dont agree with everything he and other post but we still learn. I am not claiming I am the best or know all.......I am a seeker of enlightenment. And according to Ifa, we learn till death and continue in afterworld cuz Ifa is infinite. So I encourage you to continue learning.

And finally, I dont mock those who ask for books. You were contradicting yourself in your post. You were asking for a book and also saying you dont need a book. I was just kidding around with ya. I am sorry if I offended you on this.

Note this, when something is Infinite, books cant say everything about it. Though I am not discouraging you to stop reading, I am tasking you to observe and experience. If it about reading, I would have become babalawo but bro, it dont work that way.

I think with yeah, the OP and discuss you had with me on this thread as expose some reality to you. The option is yours to journey through it. The dark path has been lighten, it is up to you to walk through it. Nobody is threatening you with hell if you resist. But come to think of it......what is the essence of a person who doesn't know about himself or his history? Is it reasonable for a person to ignore is clothen for rags outside? If our father house fall on one side, it is our duty to rebuild it and not destroying it totally. Africa son....a word is enough for the wise. Goodnight

My feelings aren't hurt. Anyone who cannot bear harsh words isn't fit for argument on forums. It is about respect though and being able to submit your arguments coherently for consideration.

You misunderstood me. I asked to text backing up your points excepting the point you made about Africa being the cradle of civilization. That I'm well versed with.

As I said I will start looking at the resources. It doesn't threaten me or my faith and as I am able to surmise from what little I've read, Ifa still fails to deal with the critical issues.

Sleep well.

FOLYKAZE:

Lol. You have spoken the truth but I will disagree with some of your points here.

I dont think I call you name personally because the way you present your points from start on this thread shows that you have open mind and willing to learn. Though you holding on your 'defence and weakness attack' but I forced my way in without insulting you.

If it because of what I said against Mr President you pointing at, I am saying I aint sorry about every bash I bath him with. This is stick and carrot game so I think stick is the best for his like. He is insulting my ancestors by patching my history to Judah. He cant even prove is point than pointing to one useless book. You can insult me but I will take it as words; nevertheless, you cant insult my ancestors without striking you. So I think I gave him the best thing.

And the knowledge I present is bunk? Lol. After shredding your forces in bible, you didn't give me credits o. Lol. You are free to call the knowledge anything. Having it isn't final, understanding it is what you need.

Ori is not life force. Emi is the life force. You know we have Emi, Ara and Ori? Ori is more like soul. Philosophically, it your 'me-ness' or consciousness. You have not answered my questions but I wont hesistate to bother you much. I will take your points as the way you understand it.

Adding, I love those having open mind. I really like to hang around people that want to learn. Let me reveal one secret to you......i registered on this site and didn't post here for two and half years. Why? I am reading and liking people's post. I can remember those days I cant sleep without reading logicboy post. Though I dont agree with everything he and other post but we still learn. I am not claiming I am the best or know all.......I am a seeker of enlightenment. And according to Ifa, we learn till death and continue in afterworld cuz Ifa is infinite. So I encourage you to continue learning.

And finally, I dont mock those who ask for books. You were contradicting yourself in your post. You were asking for a book and also saying you dont need a book. I was just kidding around with ya. I am sorry if I offended you on this.

Note this, when something is Infinite, books cant say everything about it. Though I am not discouraging you to stop reading, I am tasking you to observe and experience. If it about reading, I would have become babalawo but bro, it dont work that way.

I think with yeah, the OP and discuss you had with me on this thread as expose some reality to you. The option is yours to journey through it. The dark path has been lighten, it is up to you to walk through it. Nobody is threatening you with hell if you resist. But come to think of it......what is the essence of a person who doesn't know about himself or his history? Is it reasonable for a person to ignore is clothen for rags outside? If our father house fall on one side, it is our duty to rebuild it and not destroying it totally. Africa son....a word is enough for the wise. Goodnight

Since I have agreed to look at the texts you supplied. I would like to implore you, if you really are someone seeking truth, to open your heart to God. Without pretense, arrogance, self-righteousness, or stubbornness. Reach out with all sincerity of heart. That is my challenge to you.

NativeBoy: Since I have agreed to look at the texts you supplied. I would like to implore you, if you really are someone seeking truth, to open your heart to God. Without pretense, arrogance, self-righteousness, or stubbornness. Reach out with all sincerity of heart. That is my challenge to you.

I did that before you speak about it. Check here https://www.nairaland.com/1500875/conditions-make-me-reconvert-christianity

And if I should ask, which God do you want me to seek?

NativeBoy:
My feelings aren't hurt. Anyone who cannot bear harsh words isn't fit for argument on forums. It is about respect though and being able to submit your arguments coherently for consideration.

You misunderstood me. I asked to text backing up your points excepting the point you made about Africa being the cradle of civilization. That I'm well versed with.

As I said I will start looking at the resources. It doesn't threaten me or my faith and as I am able to surmise from what little I've read, Ifa still fails to deal with the critical issues.

Sleep well.

morning bro. Was reading your post and laughing. Lol. Even your bible permit me to use harsh words. The way you handle dove is different from goat.

I wont say much about Ifa cuz I am not a practitioner yet. I have argued with babalawo and lamented about some confusion to him. It fact that they are making this knowledge fully presented to initiated ones. If you want to know everything about Ifa, it doesn't end in what you, what you taught or what you heard. You need to visit IGBODU and see it manifesting for you. Every Orisa will manifest before you and you will understand those forces. That is power of Africa. Can you tell Jesus to manifest before you? Ifa can do that.

Ifa you are yoruba, take your time and challenge babalawo to reveal secrets hidden in your mind to you. You know what I did? I hide cowries and ask him to find it with Ifa. Do any trick you wish....Ifa will reveal it even before you do it. Lol there is power in Africa......you leave it, the world use it against ya. Ask chinese about Iching.

FOLYKAZE:

morning bro. Was reading your post and laughing. Lol. Even your bible permit me to use harsh words. The way you handle dove is different from goat.

I wont say much about Ifa cuz I am not a practitioner yet. I have argued with babalawo and lamented about some confusion to him. It fact that they are making this knowledge fully presented to initiated ones. If you want to know everything about Ifa, it doesn't end in what you, what you taught or what you heard. You need to visit IGBODU and see it manifesting for you. Every Orisa will manifest before you and you will understand those forces. That is power of Africa. Can you tell Jesus to manifest before you? Ifa can do that.

Ifa you are yoruba, take your time and challenge babalawo to reveal secrets hidden in your mind to you. You know what I did? I hide cowries and ask him to find it with Ifa. Do any trick you wish....Ifa will reveal it even before you do it. Lol there is power in Africa......you leave it, the world use it against ya. Ask chinese about Iching.

lol folykaze
tell me how it went, did the baba find the cowries?

macof: lol folykaze
tell me how it went, did the baba find the cowries?

For sure. He got it right but not all. Folykaze is a trickster. I am Eshu lol

There was a point he asked me to keep it between my right and left hand. I did and he got it right. I added my own trick in next phase and kept the cowrie in my front pocket instead of my hands. The baba couldn't get this right though.

This got him ashamed but when he reported the incident to Oluwo, the old oluwo said the baba was asking for the sides and Ifa gave him direct answer. It what you ask you got it answer. Garbage in and garbage out. The Oluwo told him Ifa was informing him that the cowrie was in my left side as the pocket was positioned on the left side of my shirt but the baba interpreted it as left hand. So the error was from the baba and not Ifa. The baba even had chance to learn somethings which I witnessed but dont understand. They were just talking and chanting.

I have been trying to relate with Oluwo here but the old man is doing somehow. Kinda keeping things out of my understanding. He often take me as joke but I am thinking only my initiation can appeal him.

Bro there are more to Ifa than what we think. Oluwo told me interpretation of Odu can take period of 8yrs before knowing it fully. Awo ju awo, eye n gbe eye mi. Lol.

macof: lol folykaze
tell me how it went, did the baba find the cowries?

2 Thessalonians 2:
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


folake, you have shown that you are not a sincere seeker, the knowledge of the truth cannot be revealed to you because your search is dishonest and not borne out of altruistic motives. This is glaring to me by the way you tried to twist the contents of the ROF website. You are not an 'olufokansin', and as NativeBoy has adviced you, I will also reiterate; seek God with sincerety and pure motives, He will reveal Himself to you if you search for Him with your whole heart. If however you continue on the path of perdition as you currently are, I would just advice patience for you. You will be destroyed in due time.

Isa 55:6-8
6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.


I asked you boys; Macof, PAGAN 9JA and folake 2 simple questions:

1 Why did Rev. Ogunbiyi not abandon Christianity when he came into 'enlightenment' as you, folake, has done? keep in mind that PAGAN 9JA'S mouth has already condemned him.

2 Why has the Ogboni, traditional custodians of the history, culture and traditions of the Yoruba expressly specified 'non-idolatrous beliefs' in God as the major criteria for admittance and initiation?

The truth stares you boys in the face, answer with sincerity and you would have made good progress in your search. What is the traditional religion of the Yoruba if the Ogboni are against idolatry? As it stands, I have a better chance of entering the Ogboni as a Bible believing Israelite than you boys who have with your own mouths confessed to be pagans and idolaters, worshippers of wood and stone.

I am not holding brief for the Ogboni and I nurse no intention of joining them. But one thing I know for sure is this, the reason why they so eschew idolatry is that it is the sin The Most High and Holy God detests most. It is the reason the true Israel, which includes all the tribes of the slave coast of Africa, were dispersed to the ends of the earth from the East. Remember Oduduwa came from the East. Job also came from the East

Job 1:3
3 His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.

FOLYKAZE:

morning bro. Was reading your post and laughing. Lol. Even your bible permit me to use harsh words. The way you handle dove is different from goat.

I wont say much about Ifa cuz I am not a practitioner yet. I have argued with babalawo and lamented about some confusion to him. It fact that they are making this knowledge fully presented to initiated ones. If you want to know everything about Ifa, it doesn't end in what you, what you taught or what you heard. You need to visit IGBODU and see it manifesting for you. Every Orisa will manifest before you and you will understand those forces. That is power of Africa. Can you tell Jesus to manifest before you? Ifa can do that.

Ifa you are yoruba, take your time and challenge babalawo to reveal secrets hidden in your mind to you. You know what I did? I hide cowries and ask him to find it with Ifa. Do any trick you wish....Ifa will reveal it even before you do it. Lol there is power in Africa......you leave it, the world use it against ya. Ask chinese about Iching.

After knowing Christ, I can no longer turn to any mystic arts. Do I believe that these powers exist? Yes, after all, all societies have at some point tapped into them. What we Yorubas call babalawo, the native Americans calls shamans, in the east they are called yogis, gurus, etc. But therein is the problem, none of these are universal in scope and the knowledge they offer is esoteric.

My interest in the points you raised is to know whether the Yoruba traditional system really does have any connections to 21st century science, specifically with respect to organizing data in computer systems. I really did find the link between the 256 odus (16 x 16) and the 8-bit and 16-bit systems we use in modern day computing to be very interesting. I thank you for that bit (no pun intended) of information. I don't think it's a conscious link, rather just another indicator that our universe is governed by amazing mathematical order. I was aware that Egyptian, Sumerian, and certain other cultures had this kind of knowledge (albeit not to the extent we know it today), but I didn't know that it was do close to home, that we Yorubas also were clued in. This only further underscores that there is so much to know about Africa's past heritage, which is what I'm about. But as fascinating as it all is, none of it offers answers to the fundamental questions of sin, morality, justice, purpose, etc.

To answer your question squarely, I want you to seek Jesus Christ. Don't seek miracles, signs, etc. Just seek Christ and you will see the other things follow. The first thing required is to remove pride from the equation.

FOLYKAZE:

For sure. He got it right but not all. Folykaze is a trickster. I am Eshu lol

There was a point he asked me to keep it between my right and left hand. I did and he got it right. I added my own trick in next phase and kept the cowrie in my front pocket instead of my hands. The baba couldn't get this right though.

This got him ashamed but when he reported the incident to Oluwo, the old oluwo said the baba was asking for the sides and Ifa gave him direct answer. It what you ask you got it answer. Garbage in and garbage out. The Oluwo told him Ifa was informing him that the cowrie was in my left side as the pocket was positioned on the left side of my shirt but the baba interpreted it as left hand. So the error was from the baba and not Ifa. The baba even had chance to learn somethings which I witnessed but dont understand. They were just talking and chanting.

I have been trying to relate with Oluwo here but the old man is doing somehow. Kinda keeping things out of my understanding. He often take me as joke but I am thinking only my initiation can appeal him.

Bro there are more to Ifa than what we think. Oluwo told me interpretation of Odu can take period of 8yrs before knowing it fully. Awo ju awo, eye n gbe eye mi. Lol.

this is interesting, u sure are one intelligent trickster

Ifa is wonderful, I also noticed most Awo(not just for Ifa) withhold some information except u are initiated, I wish I was initiated already.

the first time I went to Osun shrine I was still a Christian and I saw people praying to Osun for pregnancy and I was confused. the Awo there told me to take water from odo Osun and use it for anything I ask for. I remember some days later(still in Osun state) I had a terrible headache and poured the water over my head, and drank the rest, it didnt take up to 30secs the headache disappeared. I went back to the Awo to explain how the water could do that, he just laughed and told me "A christian like u cant understand"

@ Mr President.

I think you dont want to accept any reality that contradicts your opinion. So you can eat all you got. You free.

- I have charged you to compare Reformed Ogboni to Santeria. The picture is clear as Ogboni had been existing prior to the reformation.

- what exactly is it you want to prove out in Ogboni? That they are christians? Stop kidding bro.....they are pure Aborisa.

- Oduduwa was from bini. He was the son of the last ogosi. Many people have attempted to destroy our historical fact. Some foolish arab said Odudua is from mecca. This is lies. Oduduwa gave the birth between Yoruba and bini. And today, the head of Oba bini sleep in Ife. Na israeli head dem dey bury.

I have done a great job debunking the gilberish link you posted. Cant you refute me? Lol.

My points on this thread were from scriptures....cant you counter me directly?

I know what/who Eledumare is to my best understanding.....he is aimotan. I dont know how I can know infinite. I dont belief in your God.....thanks.

Lets deal with the OP. I hate bashing you.

macof:

this is interesting, u sure are one intelligent trickster

Ifa is wonderful, I also noticed most Awo(not just for Ifa) withhold some information except u are initiated, I wish I was initiated already.

the first time I went to Osun shrine I was still a Christian and I saw people praying to Osun for pregnancy and I was confused. the Awo there told me to take water from odo Osun and use it for anything I ask for. I remember some days later(still in Osun state) I had a terrible headache and poured the water over my head, and drank the rest, it didnt take up to 30secs the headache disappeared. I went back to the Awo to explain how the water could do that, he just laughed and told me "A christian like u cant understand"

we shall meet for the next year Osun festival.

Have you seen Osayin once? I have observed different Osanyin manifesting before me. One is a small pot command and rolling around on self and another one is producing talking. Mehn....Yoruba technology is really amazing. Wishing our scientist can develop something out of this but seem most are puppets of white men. That is why we produce science graduate every years but nothing to show of out of this.

I have really admire spiritual works since I understand it advance science.

macof: President u are a big fool

I thought u even knew something or had valuable knowledge, you read from a confused and deluded man like Samuel Johnson and come here to spread foolishness.

i told you, u are addicted to this word.

NativeBoy:

After knowing Christ, I can no longer turn to any mystic arts. Do I believe that these powers exist? Yes, after all, all societies have at some point tapped into them. What we Yorubas call babalawo, the native Americans calls shamans, in the east they are called yogis, gurus, etc. But therein is the problem, none of these are universal in scope and the knowledge they offer is esoteric.

My interest in the points you raised is to know whether the Yoruba traditional system really does have any connections to 21st century science, specifically with respect to organizing data in computer systems. I really did find the link between the 256 odus (16 x 16) and the 8-bit and 16-bit systems we use in modern day computing to be very interesting. I thank you for that bit (no pun intended) of information. I don't think it's a conscious link, rather just another indicator that our universe is governed by amazing mathematical order. I was aware that Egyptian, Sumerian, and certain other cultures had this kind of knowledge (albeit not to the extent we know it today), but I didn't know that it was do close to home, that we Yorubas also were clued in. This only further underscores that there is so much to know about Africa's past heritage, which is what I'm about. But as fascinating as it all is, none of it offers answers to the fundamental questions of sin, morality, justice, purpose, etc.

To answer your question squarely, I want you to seek Jesus Christ. Don't seek miracles, signs, etc. Just seek Christ and you will see the other things follow. The first thing required is to remove pride from the equation.

folykaze bad gan. Lol.

Which christ do you know? Jesus the italian guy or the one with chinese look? How does jesus look and where do you meet him? What does Jesus stand for..... 'hail zeus'.... He is coming to earth with fire....just like thor and Sango. Lol.

Orunmila is intelligence. If you got brain, you cant deny it. Lol.

Sango manifest as electric charge....can you deny that?

Ogun manifest as Iron in your food and blood stream.. You want to deny that?

Obatala manifest as light particle and Oduduwa is the womb of creation....you want to deny you aint condense energy?

Seeking or practising here isn't worship but getting to understand and use them for ourselves. The air is there even though we deny it but we study air today for our better use.....so you expecting whity to dig into your spirituality? Lol.

Jesus said he came for the Jew and concerned about the Jew.....in rev 3:9, 2:9 said he will fish out those that aint jew and those that disguise as jew as synagogue of satan. Isn't that your fate? Lol

the finite position between 1 and 3 is cleared and that 2 is only between them both. But if you dig deep, there are infinites in the range. If you are truely intelligent, you will understand that simple analogy. Cheers man

MEILYN: i told you, u are addicted to this word.

maybe I am

hey check out these threads https://www.nairaland.com/1508769/christians-god-idol-hills
https://www.nairaland.com/1503699/christianity-things-arent-really-known

MEILYN: i told you, u are addicted to this word.

And your bible say rebuke the fools. Nothing to be scared of man.

macof: maybe I am

hey check out these threads https://www.nairaland.com/1508769/christians-god-idol-hills
https://www.nairaland.com/1503699/christianity-things-arent-really-known

You are calling the sheep to lion den. Lol

FOLYKAZE: @ Mr President.

I think you dont want to accept any reality that contradicts your opinion. So you can eat all you got. You free.

- I have charged you to compare Reformed Ogboni to Santeria. The picture is clear as Ogboni had been existing prior to the reformation.

- what exactly is it you want to prove out in Ogboni? That they are christians? Stop kidding bro.....they are pure Aborisa.

- Oduduwa was from bini. He was the son of the last ogosi. Many people have attempted to destroy our historical fact. Some foolish arab said Odudua is from mecca. This is lies. Oduduwa gave the birth between Yoruba and bini. And today, the head of Oba bini sleep in Ife. Na israeli head dem dey bury.

I have done a great job debunking the gilberish link you posted. Cant you refute me? Lol.

My points on this thread were from scriptures....cant you counter me directly?

I know what/who Eledumare is to my best understanding.....he is aimotan. I dont know how I can know infinite. I dont belief in your God.....thanks.

Lets deal with the OP. I hate bashing you.

Oduduwa is not the son of any Ogiso. That is modern revisionism inspired by the present Oba of Benin. Up till the early 1900s, the heads of deceased Obas of Benin was being buried in Ile-ife. What does that tell you?
When Oduduwa and his people arrived at Ile-ife and he was asked where he came from by the people he met on ground, he answered them that he came from Orun. What is orun? Orun is heaven. What is heaven? keep in mind that it was war that made Oduduwa leave the 'East', and that the Yoruba (as with all Negroes) are not indigenous to West Africa.

What is Heaven? Rulership. What is Earth? Subservience. Esoteric language.
Lamentations 2:1
How hath the Lord covered the daughter of Zion with a cloud in his anger, and cast down from heaven unto the earth the beauty of Israel, and remembered not his footstool in the day of his anger!

It was because of Idolatry that Israel was chased away from Heaven (Orun), it was because of Idolatry that Oduduwa was chased away from the 'East'.
Those people who reside in the State of Israel today are not the real Israelites and they do not call themselves Israelites. They call themselves Israelis and refer to themselves as jewish.
Revelation 3:9
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

It is part of Biblical prophecy that the original Israelites would forget their heritage.

Jeremiah 17:4
And thou, even thyself, shalt discontinue from thine heritage that I gave thee; and I will cause thee to serve thine enemies in the land which thou knowest not: for ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn for ever

I am following this thread not because of you but for the sake of the seeker who will review it later and connect the dots. You are an insincere seeker and you will never get the truth in this state.



Santeria is Catholicism mixed with idolatry. You dare to accuse the custodians of Yoruba history of Idolatry even when they have expressly told you they are against it? Open your mouth and be condemned!

Personally I dont sunscribe to the Oba of Benin story that Odududwa was from Uselu(former name of benin), when Oduduwa came he didnt come with any army. He came alone(wearing a royal attire) The Ife people believed he was the man of prophecy, a prince of heaven and accepted him as the first king of Ife.

before the expansion of the Yoruba nation from Ife to the current landmass, Ife people lived around in places like Iwo, Idanre etc which are in the east of Ife. Oduduwa come have been born in any of these places.

The birthplace of Oududuwa is still a mystery

Mr President:

Oduduwa is not the son of any Ogiso. That is modern revisionism inspired by the present Oba of Benin. Up till the early 1900s, the heads of deceased Obas of Benin was being buried in Ile-ife. What does that tell you?
When Oduduwa and his people arrived at Ile-ife and he was asked where he came from by the people he met on ground, he answered them that he came from Orun. What is orun? Orun is heaven. What is heaven? keep in mind that it was war that made Oduduwa leave the 'East', and that the Yoruba (as with all Negroes) are not indigenous to West Africa.

What is Heaven? Rulership. What is Earth? Subservience. Esoteric language.
Lamentations 2:1
How hath the Lord covered the daughter of Zion with a cloud in his anger, and cast down from heaven unto the earth the beauty of Israel, and remembered not his footstool in the day of his anger!

It was because of Idolatry that Israel was chased away from Heaven (Orun), it was because of Idolatry that Oduduwa was chased away from the 'East'.
Those people who reside in the State of Israel today are not the real Israelites and they do not call themselves Israelites. They call themselves Israelis and refer to themselves as jewish.
Revelation 3:9
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

It is part of Biblical prophecy that the original Israelites would forget their heritage.

Jeremiah 17:4
And thou, even thyself, shalt discontinue from thine heritage that I gave thee; and I will cause thee to serve thine enemies in the land which thou knowest not: for ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn for ever

I am following this thread not because of you but for the sake of the seeker who will review it later and connect the dots. You are an insincere seeker and you will never get the truth in this state.



Santeria is Catholicism mixed with idolatry. You dare to accuse the custodians of Yoruba history of Idolatry even when they have expressly told you they are against it? Open your mouth and be condemned!

lets start here. In Yoruba, we have patakis and Oral history.

Differentiate Oduduwa among the both.

For better understanding, Oduduwa was involve in the creation process. And also appear again despite people have been existing in Oyo.

Orun mean sky, womb and invisible realm....there is nothing like rulership here.


I will await your analogy on the differences. Lets learn.....lol