hifaif:

Oh, how interesting. So God knew everything right from the beginning. He wrote the drama, yet the actors had to write their own parts.

Mmm, what can we call such a script?

This is some twisted stuff bro
I wish people would see it for what it is instead of trying so hard to explain such blatant discrepancies away in an even more confusing manner...

Xcapist:

A sick twisted joke? :\

That sounds like what it really should be called.

Xcapist:

This is some twisted stuff bro
I wish people would see it for what it is instead of trying so hard to explain such blatant discrepancies away in an even more confusing manner...

And i wish you will understand it the way it really is than the way you think it is.

hifaif:

Oh, how interesting. So God knew everything right from the beginning. He wrote the drama, yet the actors had to write their own parts.

Mmm, what can we call such a script?

The issue here is whether God used the new testament to correct mistakes in the old and i ve tried to clear it by showing that he actually planned the old and the new together. You are just mixing up things. Lets face what the op raised first. When you try to mix up things it doesnt show sincerity of purpose.

alexleo:

The issue here is whether God used the new testament to correct mistakes in the old and i ve tried to clear it by showing that he actually planned the old and the new together. You are just mixing up things. Lets face what the op raised first. When you try to mix up things it doesnt show sincerity of purpose.

I am not mixing up things. You can't tell me that God planned everything right from the beginning and still want me to believe that man has free will.

Jesus' death was part of God's plans too? Whose script wasJudas following? God's or is own?

alexleo:

The issue here is whether God used the new testament to correct mistakes in the old and I've tried to clear it by showing that he actually planned the old and the new together. You are just mixing up things. Lets face what the op raised first. When you try to mix up things it doesn't show sincerity of purpose.

But if they're one package as you say why does one say "do this or I make the people stone you to death" and other say "you know what? You don't have to do it...loosen up a bit"? Why is the Yahweh of the old testament quick to annihilate and punish with dead and then he goes on to say" love your neighbor and do good to those who hate you"? Does consistency has any meaning to him? Is his personality that fluid and dynamic? Is he bipolar? Why did Jesus in many instances say Moses told you this and Moses told you that, but I say to you... What does he mean, why the buts and was it even Moses' words or should it be God told you this and God told you that but I'll still go on to tell you another thing that's 180 degrees the opposite. Has it always been in his script that "I'll take no nonsense from the ancients and be too lenient with the new people"? And to what end?

hifaif:

I am not mixing up things. You can't tell me that God planned everything right from the beginning and still want me to believe that man has free will.

Jesus' death was part of God's plans too? Whose script wasJudas following? God's or is own?

Aah...the uncanny paradox of predestined freewill.
Why don't we start punishing actors for all the illegal atrocities they commit in movies? They are responsible, no?

Your questioning is as babes. When u come into maturity and the fullness of God is revealed to u, u will forget the way he dealt with oda pple and be focused on the way he is dealing with u. Be careful what u say, don't be curious because u want to justify the ways of God or cos u want to find faults in him. Be curious because u want to knw more of him. Human reasons can't fathom the width and depth of him. Claiming we are actors in the script that God has written is a thing I hate to delve into because the more u try to understand the more u lose ur focus on those things which are important in the Kingdom. If u say we are actors then, what is ur part of role in the Fathers script?

sheunfemix: Your questioning is as babes. When u come into maturity and the fullness of God is revealed to u, u will forget the way he dealt with oda pple and be focused on the way he is dealing with u. Be careful what u say, don't be curious because u want to justify the ways of God or cos u want to find faults in him. Be curious because u want to knw more of him. Human reasons can't fathom the width and depth of him. Claiming we are actors in the script that God has written is a thing I hate to delve into because the more u try to understand the more u lose ur focus on those things which are important in the Kingdom. If u say we are actors then, what is ur part of role in the Fathers script?

The Christian god has too many faults. It is glaring. People do not have to look for them. It is everywhere in the Bible.

hifaif:

The Christian god has too many faults. It is glaring. People do not have to look for them. It is everywhere in the Bible.

Old testament God was a God of Justice. Jesus brought a new special grace and mercy. Now, God could have a different relationship with us.

What are God faults??

hifaif:

The Christian god has too many faults. It is glaring. People do not have to look for them. It is everywhere in the Bible.

and who is ur God?

sheunfemix: and who is ur God?

Not any that I know of.

BananaBender:

Old testament God was a God of Justice. Jesus brought a new special grace and mercy. Now, God could have a different relationship with us.

What are God faults??

A God of justice indeed. Killed Bathseba's innocent baby to punish king David, the murderer. Some justice indeed.

Killed thousands of Egyptian firstborns to teach Pharaoh (who was clearly following God's script) a lesson.

Killed thousands of Egyptian soldiers and their harmless horses (as a vegetarian, I find it repulsive)

Utterly destroyed the Amalakites (Including their innocent babies). Even got angry when Saul spared some people.

Killed Achan and his entire family (including the household babies and children and harmless women) simply because Achan kept some booty for himself.

Some God of justice indeed. What sort of justice includes killing babies for the crimes their parents committed?

What is the difference between Jehovah and ISIS? Aren't they both bloodsuckers and cradle robbers?

hifaif:

A God of justice indeed. Killed Bathseba's innocent baby to punish king David, the murderer. Some justice indeed.

Killed thousands of Egyptian firstborns to teach Pharaoh (who was clearly following God's script) a lesson.

Killed thousands of Egyptian soldiers and their harmless horses (as a vegetarian, I find it repulsive)

Utterly destroyed the Amalakites (Including their innocent babies). Even got angry when Saul spared some people.

Killed Achan and his entire family (including the household babies and children and harmless women) simply because Achan kept some booty for himself.

Some God of justice indeed. What sort of justice includes killing babies for the crimes their parents committed?

What is the difference between Jehovah and ISIS? Aren't they both bloodsuckers and cradle robbers?

YOU MUST KNOW A LOT ABOUT JUSTICE. MAY BE GOD SHOULD ENROLL IN YOUR CLASS TO TEACH HIM THE FULL MEANING OF JUSTICE.

OR MAY BE WE YOU SHOULD ASK WHY THIS SAME GOD IS ALLOWING YOU TO SAY ALL THIS ABOUT HIM AND HAS NOT KILLED YOU?

manmacho:

YOU MUST KNOW A LOT ABOUT JUSTICE. MAY BE GOD SHOULD ENROLL IN YOUR CLASS TO TEACH HIM THE FULL MEANING OF JUSTICE.

OR MAY BE SHOULD SHOULD ASK WHY THIS SAME GOD IS ALLOWING YOU TO SAY ALL THIS ABOUT HIM AND HAS NOT KILLED YOU?

Anyone with some sense will at least try to debunk all I stated or explain not type BS.

And you should look at the post I quoted before jumping on mine.

hifaif:

Anyone with some sense will at least try to debunk all I stated or explain not type BS.

And you should look at the post I quoted before jumping on mine.

YOUR RESPONSE IS A SERIOUS MATTER FOR CONSIDERATION AND RESPONSE. YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY ONE ON THIS THREAD. FOR YOUR ACTION THIS IS MY REACTION WHATEVER YOU POSTED EARLIER

MY QUESTION REMAINS IF THIS GOD WAS SOOOOOO BAD WHY ARE YOU STILL ALIVE AFTER ALL THE NEGATIVE THINGS YOU SPOKE ABOUT HIM?

manmacho:

YOU MUST KNOW A LOT ABOUT JUSTICE. MAY BE GOD SHOULD ENROLL IN YOUR CLASS TO TEACH HIM THE FULL MEANING OF JUSTICE.

OR MAY BE WE YOU SHOULD ASK WHY THIS SAME GOD IS ALLOWING YOU TO SAY ALL THIS ABOUT HIM AND HAS NOT KILLED YOU?

Maybe because he doesn't really exist?

Btw, what's with the all caps?

Yahweh can learn a few things about justice from human law and natural sense of justice. If we'll judge Yahweh in a human court for all the atrocities he has committed, then we'll have to lock him up for life...well, forever.

manmacho:

YOUR RESPONSE IS A SERIOUS MATTER FOR CONSIDERATION AND RESPONSE. YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY ONE ON THIS THREAD. FOR YOUR ACTION THIS IS MY REACTION WHATEVER YOU POSTED EARLIER

MY QUESTION REMAINS IF THIS GOD WAS SOOOOOO BAD WHY ARE YOU STILL ALIVE AFTER ALL THE NEGATIVE THINGS YOU SPOKE ABOUT HIM?

Again, probably cause he doesn't exist. If he's so power as to strike down a man for simply attempting to help steady his ark, why doesn't he just strike hifaif down from where he's hiding and venting all these blasphemous accusations. Oh wait!! Hifaif has gone silent for a while, maybe Yahweh has already done that

My good friend who believes in God says that your murderous Yahweh god is her devil. I think that makes sense...

Xcapist:

Again, probably cause he doesn't exist. If he's so power as to strike down a man for simply attempting to help steady his ark, why doesn't he just strike hifaif down from where he's hiding and venting all these blasphemous accusations. Oh wait!! Hifaif has gone silent for a while, maybe Yahweh has already done that

My good friend who believes in God says that your murderous Yahweh god is her devil. I think that makes sense...

Don't mind that fellow. I am alive. Yahweh (Jehovah) is dead.

Xcapist:

Again, probably cause he doesn't exist. If he's so power as to strike down a man for simply attempting to help steady his ark, why doesn't he just strike hifaif down from where he's hiding and venting all these blasphemous accusations. Oh wait!! Hifaif has gone silent for a while, maybe Yahweh has already done that

My good friend who believes in God says that your murderous Yahweh god is her devil. I think that makes sense...

BUT YOU TWO KEEP TALKING ABOUT HIM AS IF HE IS ALIVE. YOU EVEN CALL HIM NAMES.

THE TRUTH IS YOU CONTRADICTING YOURSELF. HOW CAN YOU BE SO AGHAST WITH WHAT DOES NOT EXIST

PLS. NOTE - HE TARRIES IN JUDGEMENT BECAUSE HE STILL HAS HOPE IN YOU EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE GIVEN UP ON HIM

manmacho:

BUT YOU TWO KEEP TALKING ABOUT HIM AS IF HE IS ALIVE. YOU EVEN CALL HIM NAMES.

THE TRUTH IS YOU CONTRADICTING YOURSELF. HOW CAN YOU BE SO AGHAST WITH WHAT DOES NOT EXIST

PLS. NOTE - HE TARRIES IN JUDGEMENT BECAUSE HE STILL HAS HOPE IN YOU EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE GIVEN UP ON HIM

Ohh my god. Haba manmacho?! Do you have draw that card? you have my permission to quote, highlight and embolden anything contradictory about anything I've said in this thread and I'd be more than glad to explain better or even accept my blunder.

You have to understand that Santa is an imaginary character but people still talk about him as though he's a real person, same thing with the tooth fairy and their likes. Yahweh is also a well formed character in your bible but some of us do not believe in him (or his existence)...so what name do you want us to call the character? We point out some things about your Yahweh so that maybe you can see the contradictions in that character and come to the same realisation as hifaif did. Remember, the majority of atheists on NL weren't born atheists.

As for the emboldened, why is it that he vend immediate judgement to the old testament people, causing the ground to open and swallow thousands as a punishment for idolatry, even with the new testament couple that lied about their contribution but he can not swallow one hifaif right now? And you're claiming god has hope? Doesn't he already know all the number that he will carry to his heaven even before the foundations of the earth were laid? To hell with the rest of us vessels of dishonour, created for his wrath right? So don't pull the mercy card, I assure you it's the wrong hand.

God is not a tale and the bible not a tale book this a just fact you wished otherwise.

If you don't believe in God how come is giving you so much concern. why are you not giving so much attention to Santa than you are giving God.

That God do not exist is a believe you will have to prove yourself

take this from me you can find fault in anything no matter how perfect it is. is a matter of choice

you fault God, i can't

must say He still have hope in you

manmacho:

BUT YOU TWO KEEP TALKING ABOUT HIM AS IF HE IS ALIVE. YOU EVEN CALL HIM NAMES.

THE TRUTH IS YOU CONTRADICTING YOURSELF. HOW CAN YOU BE SO AGHAST WITH WHAT DOES NOT EXIST

PLS. NOTE - HE TARRIES IN JUDGEMENT BECAUSE HE STILL HAS HOPE IN YOU EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE GIVEN UP ON HIM

Have you ever tried to convince your child that father Christmas doesn't exist? Your son would think why are you against father Christmas If you think he doesn't exist.

manmacho: God is not a tale and the bible not a tale book this a just fact you wished otherwise.

If you don't believe in God how come is giving you so much concern. why are you not giving so much attention to Santa than you are giving God.

That God do not exist is a believe you will have to prove yourself

take this from me you can find fault in anything no matter how perfect it is. is a matter of choice

you fault God, i can't

must say He still have hope in you

Why do you require proof for the non-existence of God when you don't require proof for his existence? You should simply accept that God doesn't exist just as you accept that he exist without proof. Ceteris paribus

manmacho: God is not a tale and the bible not a tale book this a just fact you wished otherwise.

If you don't believe in God how come is giving you so much concern. why are you not giving so much attention to Santa than you are giving God.

That God do not exist is a believe you will have to prove yourself

take this from me you can find fault in anything no matter how perfect it is. is a matter of choice

you fault God, i can't

must say He still have hope in you

God is not a tale.... That's your opinion.

Why am I concerned by the God issue? Good point Mr. Manmacho! And I'll tell you why...because people don't use Santa to deceive other people for their own personal enrichment! People don't kill each other over Santa, people don't go about saying that their mother-in-law is a witch because some silly "Man of Santa" says so, I can go on.....

I? Prove? No bro, that's not how it works, the burden of proof is on he who makes the claim not he who disagrees. But I help you with some pointers to the illogic of his existence. For all I know we've all been created by the great Flying Spaghetti Monster, can you prove otherwise?

If you can’t find fault it's because your faith is blind.

He should continue to hope oo, he's on his own. not my business

Btw, I appreciate your "coolheadedness" throughout this thread. I admire that, No lie.

Xcapist: I always believed that God is perfect - almighty and all knowing, and He neither lies nor errs. He is perfect and his word is true and final. But I struggled for a long time with some scriptures in the old Testament, especially ones that seem to portray God's ethical failings and the sickening gory details of some of the rites and rituals. The new Testament, though, seem to fix a lot of these initial issues.

But my question is if God is perfect, why do we need two testaments - one to fix fulfill the other?

God is perfect, always.


The covenants are his "pacts" with men, each covenant was to brin man closer to himself.


The rites and rituals of the old testament ARE STILL THERE, THEY DIDN'T DISAPPEAR. The sole different is that they were replaced with a new rite and a new ritual, and everlasting rite, an eternal ritual, that is Christ died on the cross once and for all times.

The rite and rituals of the old were replaced by a more "gory" rite and ritual, the the previous ones animals died, in the new one a human being is killed.


The covenant, i.e our pact with God was made perfect, that doesn't mean God became perfect.

God was always perfect, but in time he brings to perfection our relationship with him.

That is what happened in the new testament, the old pact with God was brought to completion, perfected, made whole and effective for our salvation.

PastorAIO:

It didn't say that Jesus death was planned at the beginning. It says that it happened at the beginning.

i remember you brought this passage up in our discussion some time ago.

Now am a bit interested... How exactly do you interprete that passage especially in the light that the said death only occured in time about 2000yrs ago?

hifaif:

A God of justice indeed. Killed Bathseba's innocent baby to punish king David, the murderer. Some justice indeed.

Killed thousands of Egyptian firstborns to teach Pharaoh (who was clearly following God's script) a lesson.

Killed thousands of Egyptian soldiers and their harmless horses (as a vegetarian, I find it repulsive)

Utterly destroyed the Amalakites (Including their innocent babies). Even got angry when Saul spared some people.

Killed Achan and his entire family (including the household babies and children and harmless women) simply because Achan kept some booty for himself.

Some God of justice indeed. What sort of justice includes killing babies for the crimes their parents committed?

What is the difference between Jehovah and ISIS? Aren't they both bloodsuckers and cradle robbers?

under what penial code will you judge God. He created all those life, they are all his. What is your headache that he decided to take what is his.

hifaif:

I am not mixing up things. You can't tell me that God planned everything right from the beginning and still want me to believe that man has free will.

Jesus' death was part of God's plans too? Whose script wasJudas following? God's or is own?

if is an infallible prescience.

He knows what will happen, he doesn't need to cause it, but he knows it. He is aware of all possible possibilities and the outcome of them all. In it all, among those possible posibilities and choices, he has patterned his timetable to allow for them all.

In the end, he will still win.

hifaif:

I am not mixing up things. You can't tell me that God planned everything right from the beginning and still want me to believe that man has free will.

Jesus' death was part of God's plans too? Whose script wasJudas following? God's or is own?

it is an infallible prescience.

He knows what will happen, he doesn't need to cause it, but he knows it. He is aware of all possible possibilities and the outcome of them all. In it all, among those possible posibilities and choices, he has patterned his timetable to allow for them all.

In the end, he will still win.

Ubenedictus:

it is an infallible prescience.

He knows what will happen, he doesn't need to cause it, but he knows it. He is aware of all possible possibilities and the outcome of them all. In it all, among those possible posibilities and choices, he has patterned his timetable to allow for them all.

In the end, he will still win.

SENSELESS.

Ubenedictus:


under what penial code will you judge God. He created all those life, they are all his. What is your headache that he decided to take what is his.

Then, stop complaining about BH and ISIS. Allah owns those babies that ISIS has crushed.

Heartless people. You do not see anything wrong in a God asking soldiers to kill children? You asking me under what penal code can YOUR God be judged for killing INNOCENT babies? I ask you under what penal code can Allah be judged for instructing ISIS to crush babies