shdemidemi:


Romans 1:16King James Version (KJV)

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

The gospel is the power of God, nothing else can do it but the gospel. If it were not for the free gift of salvation, do you suppose you can stand before God to prove yourself as righteous before Him?

All I am saying is that the Gospel in the Bible is two sided. Faith, Grace. Yes. Without those two, no amount of works can justify us.

At the same time, those two alone without the evidence (as seen in our way of life) is called HYPOCRISY. Jesus has never had any space in his Kingdom for hypocrites.

Let us be balanced and teach the word of truth aright. FAITH without works is dead. That's the kind of faith that condones immorality. Morality without Christ is worthless.

We need both. God requires both.

Goshen360:
Holiness doesn't mean sinlessness. They're preaching holiness as sinlessness but they still ask for forgiveness of sin. In Christ, we're holy......meaning SEPARATED UNTIL GOD AND DEDICATED UNTO GOD.

Bros " Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.". Holiness means to be holy. To be sinless!!!! How can you be separated until God and dedicated unto God if you cannot lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset you? The only way you can do that is if you continue in sin and expect grace to abound. God forbid any true believer wallow in such lie. if this is the case, it is heretic. It is another gospel which the apostle warn believer to run away from.

honeychild:


All I am saying is that the Gospel in the Bible is two sided. Faith, Grace. Yes. Without those two, no amount of works can justify us.

At the same time, those two alone without the evidence (as seen in our way of life) is called HYPOCRISY. Jesus has never had any space in his Kingdom for hypocrites.

Let us be balanced and teach the word of truth aright. FAITH without works is dead. That's the kind of faith that condones immorality. Morality without Christ is worthless.

We need both. God requires both.

but that is the same thing they have been saying all along...its just confusion of words....no one is saying you don't need works 2 make ur faith complete...but so much emphasis on works will make u see salvation as a reward you need to attain....but salvation is a free gift from God not minding who we are or what we have done previously...ur faith in God automatically spurs u onto good works...but ur faith is of so much importance 2 God Dan ur works because ur faith in him INSPIRES you 2 bear good fruits..

you see that is the kind of teaching that makes people mingle with the world and relax in their sins ultimately sending them to hell.better follow the bible.he that sins knowingly is of the devil(MEANING HE STILL HAS THE DEVIL'S PROPERTY WITH HIM) and will not make heaven.that is why repentance is a daily thing.we die to the flesh EVERYDAY. everything about christianity is everyday to avoid falling.we are to have a seperation from worldly amusements EVERYDAY.

@goshen.you see that is the kind of teaching that makes people mingle with the world and relax in their sins ultimately sending them to hell.better follow the bible.he that sins knowingly is of the devil(MEANING HE STILL HAS THE DEVIL'S PROPERTY WITH HIM) and will not make heaven.that is why repentance is a daily thing.we die to the flesh EVERYDAY. everything about christianity is everyday to avoid falling.we are to have a seperation from worldly amusements EVERYDAY.we must repent everyday.we must be on the altar of sacrifice every moment of out lives.we must ask God to keep us far from sin and ask for the grace to live above the flesh everyday.

Bidam:
The bold is not true.No, a child of God can never lose heaven and end up in hell. He may lose earthly benefits of knowing and living the truth, but his name will stay in the book of life. God predestinated His elect to adoption as sons through the purchase price of Jesus Christ's death (Gal 4:4-6; Eph 1:3-6).

U See The Problem Here?
A Child Of God Can Not Loss Heaven For Hell Yes! Bt Oly If He Remains A Child Of God

If I Chose To Bcome A Child Of God I Ve To Remain One To Make Heaven.

The Wahala Here B Say How Can I Remain A Child Of God?

You:by Bliving In Jesus Only Dats All. Our Works(good Or Bad) Is Nt Needed For Any Tin

Me:yes By Bliving In Christ Bt Nt Only Dat We Ve To Do His Works e.g Praying, Fasting, Preaching The Gospel, Arms Giving E.t.c

Dux01:
@goshen.you see that is the kind of teaching that makes people mingle with the world and relax in their sins ultimately sending them to hell.better follow the bible.he that sins knowingly is of the devil(MEANING HE STILL HAS THE DEVIL'S PROPERTY WITH HIM) and will not make heaven.that is why repentance is a daily thing.we die to the flesh EVERYDAY. everything about christianity is everyday to avoid falling.we are to have a seperation from worldly amusements EVERYDAY.we must repent everyday.we must be on the altar of sacrifice every moment of out lives.we must ask God to keep us far from sin and ask for the grace to live above the flesh everyday.

My brother, you sound like resolutions or dependence on the ability of the flesh can bring one away from a life of sinful acts. Do you realise that you are divided into two being at the point where you accepted christ. There is a new man that becomes resident in you, it is also known as a regenerate spirit, the bible also calls him the new nature. This new man is the real you that is born when you accept the gospel of Jesus Christ. This same new man is the one that is saved not the old man.

The job of a Christian will be to feed the new man with God's word so as to suppress the old sin nature present in every man. The bible didn't call us all sinners because we have been caught in the act, we are called sinners because we have a righteousness spirit alongside a Sinful nature we all got through the first Adam.


Therefore, a Christian can live as though he is of the world if he does not open himself to a new information through scriptures and debunk the old information that he had previously from the world. WE ARE A SUM TOTAL OF WHAT WE KNOW. How do I act the way God will have me act if I do not even understand scripture. The best I can do is pretend on the outside, which is what most people who major on holiness do.

Most of our bad behaviours are also hereditary. Check some behaviours you have, good or bad, you might find out that your parents (combination of father and mother) were like that too. All these things are not what we can defeat by making restitutions, or by putting up a front when we are around people, they can only be changed by a renewing of the mind by God's word and nothing else.

We all have a fundamental problem, praying cannot change it, fasting cannot either, a transformation will only come when we hold God's word (rightly divided) as though our lives depend on it. A change from within will bring the change without. A cup that is clean on the outside but dirty inside is worthless.

shdemidemi:


Bro, leave what demons believe or do not believe. Salvation is like a woman giving birth to a child, after the child comes out, it cannot be put back into the mother. We are indeed saved by grace plus nothing else. If we want to weigh works, who is qualified to weigh it? by what standard do we weigh our works?
.

Good!
After Dis Child Comes Out You Must Do Sometin To Keep It Alive Nd For Him To Grow Or It Dies! Then If This Child Dies Due To Ur Bad Works U Ve Loss The Child.

Ur Good Works Kip Dis Child Aliv While Ur Bad Works Kil It

Secondly We Are Saved By Grace Alone Yes! We Can Nt Earn Our Salvation Yes! Bt What Is Our Respons To Dis Grace?

You:by Having Faith Alone.

Me:by Having Faith Yes Bt Nt Faith Oly Bt By Faith Working Through Love Nd Charity We Do Dis Work Nt because God Owe Us Any Tin Bt Simply Our Respons To Dis Grace.

We Must Cooperate With God's Grace To B Saved By Having Faith Working Through Love Nd Charity.

vest:

Good!
After Dis Child Comes Out You Must Do Sometin To Keep It Alive Nd For Him To Grow Or It Dies! Then If This Child Dies Due To Ur Bad Works U Ve Loss The Child.

Ur Good Works Kip Dis Child Aliv While Ur Bad Works Kil It

Secondly We Are Saved By Grace Alone Yes! We Can Nt Earn Our Salvation Yes! Bt What Is Our Respons To Dis Grace?

You:by Having Faith Alone.

Me:by Having Faith Yes Bt Nt Faith Oly Bt By Faith Working Through Love Nd Charity We Do Dis Work Nt because God Owe Us Any Tin Bt Simply Our Respons To Dis Grace.

We Must Cooperate With God's Grace To B Saved By Having Faith Working Through Love Nd Charity.

If man has something to add to God's work for him to be saved then he can have something to boast about.
If he can boast then Ephesians 2:8-9 can be faulted:
"8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

@shidemi i know i sounded like that but that is not what i meant.no man can overcome sin except by the power of the Holy Spirit.but we must kill SELFiShness in our lives.our three greatest enemies as christians are flesh satan and the world.of course we have to renew our mind with the word of God daily must but if we ignore those three enemies they will SURELY make us disobey God.the reason why many clergy are found in fornication and adultery is not because they have not studied the word but they have ignore their Flesh.they forgot to mortify it's desires by dying daily like paul said.the flesh cannot please God.it must die.90 Percent of our problems come from unsubdued flesh.it is even the reason why many cannot study the word effectively and meditate on it to get revelation.they prefer to do sonething else.it is sign of unsubdued flesh.God can give us the grace and power to overcome and crucify this flesh but we must do it ourselves.God will not bear our cross for us we must take it up and follow him remember.Christianity is also about sacrifice.

Dux01:
@shidemi i know i sounded like that but that is not what i meant.no man can overcome sin except by the power of the Holy Spirit.but we must kill SELFiShness in our lives.our three greatest enemies as christians are flesh satan and the world.of course we have to renew our mind with the word of God daily must but if we ignore those three enemies they will SURELY make us disobey God.the reason why many clergy are found in fornication and adultery is not because they have not studied the word but they have ignore their Flesh.they forgot to mortify it's desires by dying daily like paul said.the flesh cannot please God.it must die.90 Percent of our problems come from unsubdued flesh.it is even the reason why many cannot study the word effectively and meditate on it to get revelation.they prefer to do sonething else.it is sign of unsubdued flesh.God can give us the grace and power to overcome and crucify this flesh but we must do it ourselves.God will not bear our cross for us we must take it up and follow him remember.Christianity is also about sacrifice.

Really deep. Dying to self is much more deeper than dying to sin.
I agree with you sir.

vest:

Good!
After Dis Child Comes Out You Must Do Sometin To Keep It Alive Nd For Him To Grow Or It Dies! Then If This Child Dies Due To Ur Bad Works U Ve Loss The Child.

Ur Good Works Kip Dis Child Aliv While Ur Bad Works Kil It

Secondly We Are Saved By Grace Alone Yes! We Can Nt Earn Our Salvation Yes! Bt What Is Our Respons To Dis Grace?

You:by Having Faith Alone.

Me:by Having Faith Yes Bt Nt Faith Oly Bt By Faith Working Through Love Nd Charity We Do Dis Work Nt because God Owe Us Any Tin Bt Simply Our Respons To Dis Grace.

We Must Cooperate With God's Grace To B Saved By Having Faith Working Through Love Nd Charity.

There is no way and no place to squeeze work in to this salvation experience, it does not fit in to this era of salvation by grace. The grace era will end at rapture and the world will return to the law and works to be saved. But for now, If you deny God by not accepting the gospel of His son, He will deny you too. If you believe this gospel, He will be faithful even if you are unfaithful. He remains loyal to His word.

As for the child analogy. The child does not need works to be kept alive, it needs to feed. That feeding is what I call 'renewing of the mind'. Let's take it back to spirituality. When we become 'born again', we do not need works (i.e works of the law) to keep us alive, we need God's word to nourish our newly found habitat. If we do not feed on this word we won't die, cos the new man was raised never to die again but there won't be the necessary growth needed to function as a child of God.

We are more like a people taken from a rundown section of a city aka ghetto, suddenly moved to a 'banana Island' of some sort. We remain the same person but the problem that might now need solving is doing things differently from the way we use to do them before from where we have come. This change does not come swiftly, it is a gradual process that needs a change from the inside.

If one is saved by grace and yet refuse to do the work that follows, will God become unfaithful by de-saving such person. God forbid. The bible did not say all shall reign, the bible says if we suffer with him we shall reign with him. Some will be saved without the stars or a reward or a prize for producing 30, 60 or 100.

Dux01:
@shidemi i know i sounded like that but that is not what i meant.no man can overcome sin except by the power of the Holy Spirit.but we must kill SELFiShness in our lives.our three greatest enemies as christians are flesh satan and the world.of course we have to renew our mind with the word of God daily must but if we ignore those three enemies they will SURELY make us disobey God.the reason why many clergy are found in fornication and adultery is not because they have not studied the word but they have ignore their Flesh.they forgot to mortify it's desires by dying daily like paul said.the flesh cannot please God.it must die.90 Percent of our problems come from unsubdued flesh.it is even the reason why many cannot study the word effectively and meditate on it to get revelation.they prefer to do sonething else.it is sign of unsubdued flesh.God can give us the grace and power to overcome and crucify this flesh but we must do it ourselves.God will not bear our cross for us we must take it up and follow him remember.Christianity is also about sacrifice.

My brother, the entire work is God's. If we are left to choose, we will never choose for God, remember we were born and reared in sin before we were bought. The bible says 'it is God who works in us to will and to do'. That zeal to choose for God cannot come from any force outside scripture. The only place we can get the power and ability to mortify the flesh is when an inward transformation comes by the Word of God alone. If we don't seek the transformation by the word first, we will certainly conform to the world even as Christians.

That man of God in adultery should not be crucified, because even the person that crucifies him can fall deeper if God decides to break his defences like the case of Job. Such person must admit his sins, go to God for forgiveness, dust himself and keep moving. The best time to learn about God is after a fall, you will suddenly realise how useless you are in the flesh. At such time you will realise why God alone deserves to be called good.

You must have heard people say things like 'I will never do that thing again' but the next minute they are there, not because they want to but because there is a propelling force from the body members energised by the sinful nature. This force can only be subdued by the word alone.

We have no power within us to stop.. The power can only come when we start to understand God through His word. The manna from heaven was supplied to the Israelites daily, they were not allowed to keep for the next day else it decays. Similarly, we must visit God's word(bread) daily to remain within the confines of the will of God.

Ok! Nw Tel Me Are We Saved By Grace Alone Of By Faith Alone?

vest:
Ok! Nw Tel Me Are We Saved By Grace Alone Of By Faith Alone?

We are saved by grace alone through faith(belief/trust) in the gospel of Jesus Christ sir.

shdemidemi:


We are saved by grace alone through faith(belief/trust) in the gospel of Jesus Christ sir.

Good So If I Simply Belief/trust In Christ Gospel I Am Saved My Bad Work(sin) Nd Good Work In Christ Is Nt Necessary And I Can Never Lose My Salvation No Mattar The Amout Of Bad Works I Do?

trustman:


If man has something to add to God's work for him to be saved then he can have something to boast about.
If he can boast then Ephesians 2:8-9 can be faulted:
"8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

One Can Also Boast Dat Its Becos Of Their Big Faith Dat They Were Saved.

The Oly Reson We Can Bliv And Our Blive Cud Save Us Is Becus Of God's Grace If Nt Our Faith No Matter The Seiz Is Useless So Is Our Good Deeds

We Are Nt Adding Any Tin To God's Work Rather We Are Cooperating Wit Him

vest:
Good So If I Simply Belief/trust In Christ Gospel I Am Saved My Bad Work(sin) Nd Good Work In Christ Is Nt Necessary And I Can Never Lose My Salvation No Mattar The Amout Of Bad Works I Do?

What is important is what the bible say, and not what we want it to say. God's way is different from our ways as heaven is to the deepest part of the sea.

The part of you that wants to hold on to the wrong end of the stick is your sin nature. Nobody have said 'go and sin', all you were told was someone has voluntarily accepted your death sentence. So the death that comes through sin was passed unto Him and now you are totally free.

Anyone with a sane mind should not see that as an opportunity to do whatever they like. That act should be enough to humble anyone.

However, if you choose to be unfaithful because of the weakness of your flesh. God remains faithful, He paid the price once and for all.

vest:
Ok! Nw Tel Me Are We Saved By Grace Alone Of By Faith Alone?

Grace opens the door; faith is the means by which we access the door, thereby completing the salvation experience. None functions without the other. It that simple!

vest:
One Can Also Boast Dat Its Becos Of Their Big Faith Dat They Were Saved.

The Oly Reson We Can Bliv And Our Blive Cud Save Us Is Becus Of God's Grace If Nt Our Faith No Matter The Seiz Is Useless So Is Our Good Deeds

We Are Nt Adding Any Tin To God's Work Rather We Are Cooperating Wit Him

There is nothing like a big faith or a small faith when it comes to salvation. Faith is our persuasion, our belief, our trust. You hear people say 'My faith is Christianity'. Moreover, God said 'I called you, you did not call me'. If God does not call, no man can ever pick God. So, if God is the one calling, He is also the one making us will, He is also the one making us do, what can we then boast about in front of God? Absolutely nothing. Salvation starts and end with God.

Romans 8
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

vest:
We Are Nt Adding Any Tin To God's Work Rather We Are Cooperating Wit Him

any idea drawn from our senses or our members is linked to the world and by extension to the devil. It is of no use to Him. The sons of Aaron learned that lesson the hard way.

So we cannot assist(though you wrote cooperate, I inferred based on your past questions) God, rather we soar with His Spirit through His Word.

jnrbayano:


Thanks for your answer

The bold is your answer to my question, put differently, "the extent/evidence of faith in Jesus which you have comes out through good works. No?"

Nope not really, when u use the world extent u tend to measure faith with ur works which is totally wrong.

I will simply put, ur maturity in Christ or how far u have come with Him shows forth in the manifestation of the good works evident in ur life. One other thing to be noted is that maturity is not just about good works per se (atleast what we call good works), bt ow much u have become like Christ (ow much Christ is being formed in u).

NB Though we tend to define most things in xtianity, bt that's not the ultimate bt the experience which I am also particular about. For instance I never knew what sanctification is bt I had already experienced it, it took a friend then which observed my life n told then 'cos he stay with me then sometimes in school. So what I am trying to say is that many at times we experienced these things even before we come to understand it.

Stay blessed n remain rapturable.

i believe what you said but the first sentence.why Jesus said that any man that cannot pick up his cross and follow him cannot be his disciple.if you tell people the entire work is God's,You are not telling them the full truth.you will just make them relax.you must Pick up your cross and die daily.paul said he dies daily keeps his body under and brings it under subjection.God gives the power but we must do it ourselves.

Dux01:
i believe what you said but the first sentence.why Jesus said that any man that cannot pick up his cross and follow him cannot be his disciple.if you tell people the entire work is God's,You are not telling them the full truth.you will just make them relax.you must Pick up your cross and die daily.paul said he dies daily keeps his body under and brings it under subjection.God gives the power but we must do it ourselves.

I agree with you that there must be a will and a conscious effort to do what is right. But that will cannot come without God's work, In other words it all starts with God. Paul did not just wake up one day to subject his body, he was arrested by God. A new information from Christ became available and the legalistic info of the law he had was debunked completely.

Paul will never usurp any glory to himself for all God did through him because he understood how he became a slave for his master. It was never his choice, it was always by God's work in him. Same applies to us today, we did not choose God, He chose us.

Jesus picked twelve disciples, none of them walked to Him to be made a disciple. He called every one of them like He calls us today by making our minds receptive to His word. If God's part isn't done, there is nothing a pastor or an evangelist can say to convince anyone about God. The work of salvation starts and end with God

I do not think picking up your cross mean we have a part to play in salvation. I believe it means whatever the storm, persecution, snares, turmoil, take it as your lot and keep walking with God as you are led.

PastorOluT:


Nope not really, when u use the world extent u tend to measure faith with ur works which is totally wrong.

I will simply put, ur maturity in Christ or how far u have come with Him shows forth in the manifestation of the good works evident in ur life. One other thing to be noted is that maturity is not just about good works per se (atleast what we call good works), bt ow much u have become like Christ (ow much Christ is being formed in u).

NB Though we tend to define most things in xtianity, bt that's not the ultimate bt the experience which I am also particular about. For instance I never knew what sanctification is bt I had already experienced it, it took a friend then which observed my life n told then 'cos he stay with me then sometimes in school. So what I am trying to say is that many at times we experienced these things even before we come to understand it.

Stay blessed n remain rapturable.

1. How do I measure my faith in God?

2. How do I know when I attain the bold?

Thanks for your replies thus far.

jnrbayano:


1. How do I measure my faith in God?

2. How do I know when I attain the bold?

Thanks for your replies thus far.

I take both of ur questions together 'cos i think it with the same mindset that u asked, I keep it simple and short.

One of the misconception in the Christendom is people trying to measure faith, faith cant be measured because there is no true yardstick for that for that. When Jesus talked about people having great faith, or the most popular one that if you have got faith as small as a muster seed, all these was not really talking about the sizes of faith but its quality.

The truth of the scriptures is either you have faith or not, but there is an extent u can allow the faith manifest in ur life which is where the quality of faith comes in to play.

Now coming to the way u can attain fulness in Christ Jesus, the first thing u need to realize us that it is not of ur doing but the work of the Holy Spirit for He is the one that works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. The xtian life is an example of our live physically little wonder Jesus compare it in John 3:6 flesh gives birth to flesh while spirit gives birth to spirit. Now just as u are given birth to physically and u grow to maturity, so also when u are spiritually born u also grow accordingly as u continue in the spirit. U continue in the spirit as u constantly walk in the spirit by spending quality time with Him daily to meditate in His word and commune with Him in prayers and His word as His life is manifest in the works that the Spirit does through u. This so many people neglect and wonder why they are not growing in Christ, the fact remains that when u are spiritually malnourished u will definitely have a stunted growth and be under the elemental forces and be tossed around by the devil.

NB Cant really type now and no time to edit, but would be back to answer any question for clarity.

@shidemi i believe we have a part to play not in getting saved but in remaining saved.remember the bible says we should work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

Dux01:
@shidemi i believe we have a part to play not in getting saved but in remaining saved.remember the bible says we should work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

I thank God that you agree that it is God's work that brought salvation to all who believe and not by our good moral capabilities. Now, I did not save myself, I couldn't have because of the sin of Adam that was imputed in me the moment I was conceived. I was translated in to darkness even before I could say my first words as a baby.

The same way I did not have to tell a lie before becoming a sinner, I don't need to do anything save to believe Christ to be imputed with righteousness. Now, a transaction happened before the sinner tag got replaced with a saint tag. Jesus traded His blood as a form of legal tender in the slave market to buy me to Himself. (It was a complete payment, nothing more can be asked for).

This entire transaction did not happen when I became good, it all happened when I was an enemy of God. If Jesus died for me when I was His enemy, will He deny me now when I have been made a saint(objective) through sanctification by His power?

If we look all through the epistles we will realize that our salvation is not such that keeps us in a place of perpetual insecurity, it is sealed. It isn't sealed because I am better behaved than my muslim neighbor, not at all! It is sealed because the grace of God that reveals salvation to all appeared.

The death of Jesus created a way in for all but a way out of God was not given. The story of the Israelite best depict our salvation story. The red sea gave a picture of the blood (i.e the blood of Christ). The same blood that saved many as a nation, regardless of their individual character killed many collectively regardless of morals. The Egyptians can easily give us an idea of those who will deny God by not accepting the gospel of Jesus Christ.

After the episode, the red sea closed. Some of the Israelites revolted because they were hungry, if there was a way back to Egypt, some would have turned back, they wanted their cucumber and garlic. But, there was no way back. Similarly, the entire body of Christ will be saved not by the moral standards of the world but by the power of God. Only those who are not covered by the blood will hit the stumblingstone and rock of offence.
Romans 9
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


-------------------
'Work out your own salvation'- I think a bible version puts it clearly than most. If you also check bible dictionaries and strong concordance, they have detailed explanation of the verse.

New Living Translation
Dear friends, you always followed my instructions when I was with you. And now that I am away, it is even more important. Work hard to show the results of your salvation, obeying God with deep reverence and fear.

The verse that follows (v13) can also help put it in proper context.

NB: I have not said bible teaches us to live a licentious life because we are saved by grace. It is a progressive revelation, we can't get how to apply(body) God's word if we don't understand the doctrine(the head).

PastorOluT:


I take both of ur questions together 'cos i think it with the same mindset that u asked, I keep it simple and short.

One of the misconception in the Christendom is people trying to measure faith, faith cant be measured because there is no true yardstick for that for that. When Jesus talked about people having great faith, or the most popular one that if you have got faith as small as a muster seed, all these was not really talking about the sizes of faith but its quality.

The truth of the scriptures is either you have faith or not, but there is an extent u can allow the faith manifest in ur life which is where the quality of faith comes in to play.

Now coming to the way u can attain fulness in Christ Jesus, the first thing u need to realize us that it is not of ur doing but the work of the Holy Spirit for He is the one that works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. The xtian life is an example of our live physically little wonder Jesus compare it in John 3:6 flesh gives birth to flesh while spirit gives birth to spirit. Now just as u are given birth to physically and u grow to maturity, so also when u are spiritually born u also grow accordingly as u continue in the spirit. U continue in the spirit as u constantly walk in the spirit by spending quality time with Him daily to meditate in His word and commune with Him in prayers and His word as His life is manifest in the works that the Spirit does through u. This so many people neglect and wonder why they are not growing in Christ, the fact remains that when u are spiritually malnourished u will definitely have a stunted growth and be under the elemental forces and be tossed around by the devil.

NB Cant really type now and no time to edit, but would be back to answer any question for clarity.

The bold suggests agreement that faith can be measured.

The quality of something is measureable just as its quantity.

Do you disagree with the above statement? Yes or No?

Thanks, I am waiting.

italo:
God wants us to be holy and stay away from sin.

If you contradict that, you are no different from the prosperity preachers who want all the benefits they can get from God without making any sacrifice.

You're all heretics!

You don't understand the Op. This all I have been trying to say in all my post. It is God that does his righteous work in man but man must have the ingredient from which the work must be done by God. That a plant has its root in the soil means nothing except the soil has the nutrients the plant requires. When you have what works holiness in you, you live holy without doing anything.

shdemidemi:


I thank God that you agree that it is God's work that brought salvation to all who believe and not by our good moral capabilities. Now, I did not save myself, I couldn't have because of the sin of Adam that was imputed in me the moment I was conceived. I was translated in to darkness even before I could say my first words as a baby.

The same way I did not have to tell a lie before becoming a sinner, I don't need to do anything save to believe Christ to be imputed with righteousness. Now, a transaction happened before the sinner tag got replaced with a saint tag. Jesus traded His blood as a form of legal tender in the slave market to buy me to Himself. (It was a complete payment, nothing more can be asked for).

This entire transaction did not happen when I became good, it all happened when I was an enemy of God. If Jesus died for me when I was His enemy, will He deny me now when I have been made a saint(objective) through sanctification by His power?

If we look all through the epistles we will realize that our salvation is not such that keeps us in a place of perpetual insecurity, it is sealed. It isn't sealed because I am better behaved than my muslim neighbor, not at all! It is sealed because the grace of God that reveals salvation to all appeared.

The death of Jesus created a way in for all but a way out of God was not given. The story of the Israelite best depict our salvation story. The red sea gave a picture of the blood (i.e the blood of Christ). The same blood that saved many as a nation, regardless of their individual character killed many collectively regardless of morals. The Egyptians can easily give us an idea of those who will deny God by not accepting the gospel of Jesus Christ.

After the episode, the red sea closed. Some of the Israelites revolted because they were hungry, if there was a way back to Egypt, some would have turned back, they wanted their cucumber and garlic. But, there was no way back. Similarly, the entire body of Christ will be saved not by the moral standards of the world but by the power of God. Only those who are not covered by the blood will hit the stumblingstone and rock of offence.
Romans 9
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


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'Work out your own salvation'- I think a bible version puts it clearly than most. If you also check bible dictionaries and strong concordance, they have detailed explanation of the verse.

New Living Translation
Dear friends, you always followed my instructions when I was with you. And now that I am away, it is even more important. Work hard to show the results of your salvation, obeying God with deep reverence and fear.

The verse that follows (v13) can also help put it in proper context.

NB: I have not said bible teaches us to live a licentious life because we are saved by grace. It is a progressive revelation, we can't get how to apply(body) God's word if we don't understand the doctrine(the head).

Adam didn't plant any sin in you nor in me. We sin of our own will. I will write soon on how man came to be a sinner.

jdilight:


Adam didn't plant any sin in you nor in me. We sin of our own will. I will write soon on how man came to be a sinner.

OK.. I wait.

.