Thats an escape.
It is wrong for a minister to have security men if he feels a need for it because the angels alone ought to protect him? Is that your point?

@Jo: I think you miss their point.

We know Christ was hated by the Religious leaders and that there were many attempts on His life yet he would hide or go someplace else until His SET time arrived when He gave Himself up. Your allegory to His Disciples carrying swords is therefore wrong because culture in those days and place informed that many people carried arms just as in the north today, many carry daggers and in the USA, many carry guns. So the 2 swords were a product of culture rather than protection or aggression.

So except if you wish to argue that your "MOGs" have bodyguards as a product of culture or DUE TO norms i.e. it is fashionable to have bodyguards if you're a "big man", your train of thought is wrong. And it is acceptable (though childish) that they do it as norms; after-all, humans are vain

I would have to agree with nuclearboy here. The swords were a cultural aspect at the time. I would also like to stress an important point here that Jesus did not employ or commission any of his disciples for His security. They were his disciples who at times reacted when they thought their teacher and master was in danger.
Today's pastors on the other hand commission certain individuals to act solely as their personal bodyguards. Jesus never did this and there is a very clear distinction between friends trying to protect you and employing bodyguards.

A pastor has volunteer as well in his congregation who act as protocols . Some are military men and some are not and they all volunteer their service in that department. Some do security work at the car park . But when an MOG goes out . He may use police to escort .it depends on them and the assignment . Police may clear the road. For easy movement. No personal bodyguard carry weapon. It is police that is licensed to carry gun . I'm not aware any MOG ordered any police to shoot people. Their presence alone put mischief maker in check.

My point in all these is that the claim that angels alone are enough for security is not true. Security is common sense based on the need. Whoever doesn't need it doesn't have to borther , but whoever does need it should not be condemned until you know his reason. It is not for EFIZZY.

Satan , kidnappers, and evil men looks for way to hurt any public figure . And as a minister become great due to his influence. He may become target.

nuclearboy:

@Jo: I think you miss their point.

We know Christ was hated by the Religious leaders and that there were many attempts on His life yet he would hide or go someplace else until His SET time arrived when He gave Himself up.

But we have to agree that the idea that angels alone should secure a minister is wrong. Jesus didn't depend on angels alone. He used common sense. To protect himself. That's my point.

^^ I agree with you on the above BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT I EXPECT OF A NORMAL PERSON and Jesus was definitely full of common-sense. But you still miss the point here - you have turned the "MOG" into a special person with special powers

1. you are a "god"
2. you are "God's restraining force against evil
3. you can claim anything because you are "WHAT" sef?
4. etc

SO, if you are truly all the above, then

Why can't you just claim security against bullets?
Why can't you claim that there should be NO traffic
Why can't you [b]speak it into reality that assassins or angry people should be stuck at home [/b]and not see you?

This is the issue. Jesus humbled Himself (though God).Peter also humbled himself by accepting he lacked. Paul did same his own way.They showed common sense in their humility. But you boast, you say you are great and mighty and worthy etc which reminds most of the clanging of an empty metal barrel. So people are basically asking you to show your power and confidence. Because when it comes to these issues, you know there is common-sense but if we speak of miracles, you say NO, this is the realm of the supernatural. Like when someone who died due to loss of blood comes back to life and stays alive without blood till they top her up.

And when it comes to money, do you use the same common sense and state that we should help the needy rather than donate more to Millionaires? I think therefore that this thread deals with hypocrisy

It depends On what the Mog believe . Many have their testimonies of deliverance  from bullets. Not even MOGs alone,Other  Christians has spoken in tongues or call the name of Jesus and robbers or kidnappers fall down . So it depends on the faith at work in the person at the moment. We don't work under the anointing 24/7.  Neither did Jesus. We are one with him. He had his moment of commanding power, he also had his moment of protecting himself. That doesn't change who he is. Was he still God? Even while hiding ? .

^^^Jesus did not "hide" --- your poor English (or maybe fraud?) is worrying you. What is lost on you is the fine distinction in the English language between (a) "he hid himself from them" i.e. more or less became invisible to them and (b) "he went into hiding" as in, hiding in some place like in hide and seek.

John 8:59

Webster

Then they took up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

KJV

Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Another example:

Luke 4

All the people in the synagogue were furious when they heard this. 29They got up, drove him out of the town, and took him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw him down the cliff. 30But he walked right through the crowd and went on his way.

If your fraudulent "MOGs" can do this they will not need bodyguards.

Afterall, you have said Oyakhilome is doing greater works than Jesus. So he should do something superior not like heathens and even Christians who are not "gods" needing to use bodyguards -- or to use your fraudulent "spiritual language" ----- "armour bearers".

@Enigma:

Fabulous rebuttal up there

@Jo:

Are you sure you ever sincerely read the Bible? I know you have read it but have you ever considered reading it without seeing it through the eyes and understanding of your pastors?

What Enigma has pointed out to you is so elementary that its a wonder anyone can think you a christian talk-less a pastor. He "walked right through them" and Him disappearing from their midst is what you have turned to God "hiding" like a thief and you even laugh at it - all so you can prop up your criminal pastors. you make fun of God but take idiiot oyaks with utmost seriousness? BTW, that was deliberate - if you can laugh at God, I too should have right to say the truth about the criminals you take as servants of the God you ridicule.

At least, others are reading/seeing/learning

You know you once said something: that if you meet Jo you would first slap him before shaking his hand.

Well, I just wish to be able to slap him and cast out the demons of fraud and Bible twisting from him.   

Going back to this issue, we see an indication of what happened in those instances elsewhere except it was post-resurrection and some would say that is different. In any event what happened in the post-resurrection incident is that God deliberately prevented the concerned people from recognising Jesus until later on (EDIT) when He Himself revealed Himself to them in breaking bread and also later when He "appeared from nowhere"!

Luke 24

13 Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem. 14 They were talking with each other about everything that had happened. 15 As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them; 16 but they were kept from recognizing him.

:d

@enigma,
Your problem here is just pride. You don't own up even when it's evident that you stood for an error. You can be manipulating English and bible to suit your idea. You are trying to create an idea for Jesus that he didn't ask you. If the bible says he hid himself, take it like that . Don't twist it. Jesus had his moment in the flesh . He had his moment of fear. He came in the flesh. Don't try to help him.  You are trying to create an idea that he disappear . Come on. Try again.look at this .

John 8:59
59 So they took up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus, by mixing with the crowd, concealed Himself and went out of the temple [ enclosure].


John 7:1
1 AFTER THIS, Jesus went from place to place in Galilee, for He would not travel in Judea because the Jews were seeking to kill Him.

Security is a common sense my dear. We should not add a lie to the scripture . You should rather check the Greek word rather than Webster.

I agree with you joagbaje,
True humility is accepting what the bible says
If the bible says Jesus’ disciples carried swords, then let’s take it like that
If it says Jesus hid, then he did hide
Security is our responsible
Lets take a look at Peter who was smuggled out of the city because of the threat on his life
What do you have to say about that?

@Joagbaje

Your own problem is fraud, bible twisting and manipulation.

In recent times you have used both the "God's Word Translation" and "World English Bible" to support yourself, so here from the two --- or do you now disown them?

GWT

Then some of the Jews picked up stones to throw at Jesus. However, Jesus was concealed, and he left the temple courtyard.

WEB

Therefore they took up stones to throw at him, but Jesus was hidden, and went out of the temple, having gone through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Oya, translate those as "Jesus hid under the pulpit" or "He hid under a table".


I also asked you: if Oyakhilome can do greater works than Jesus why doesn't he too do as follows from Luke 4

All the people in the synagogue were furious when they heard this. 29They got up, drove him out of the town, and took him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw him down the cliff. 30But he walked right through the crowd and went on his way.

Enigma:

@Joagbaje

Your own problem is fraud, bible twisting and manipulation.

In recent times you have used both the "God's Word Translation" and "World English Bible" to support yourself, so here from the two --- or do you now disown them?

GWT
WEB
Oya, translate those as "Jesus hid under the pulpit" or "He hid under a table".


I also asked you: if Oyakhilome can do greater works than Jesus why doesn't he too do as follows from Luke 4

Trash. Say something reasonable

Now who is running; don't worry I leave you and your spiritual vagabond master and senior fraudster to God; He sees you both for sure.

Tell me how Jesus vanished here.

John 7:1
1 After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him.

After you have answered all the ones I have already put to you. 

While you are getting ready going through your Webster . We wil soon get to paul case. Let me give you a scripture to prepare your defence.

Acts 9:23-25
23 And after that many days were fulfilled, the Jews took counsel to kill him: 24 But their laying await was known of Saul. And they watched the gates day and night to kill him. 25 Then the disciples took him by night, and let him down by the wall in a basket.


MOG IN A BASKET!! I wonder what Webster will say here.

Look, stop dribbling yourself; also, your Bible twisting may work on your flock and similarly uninformed or misinformed people but not on Christians with their minds in the right place.

First, no one has said MOGs or even Christians should not take security precautions. What people have been going on about is your hypocrisy: if you are "god", and you can do miracles, and if you and Oyakhilome can do greater works than Jesus, then you should not need security. If you still need security, then you were lying when you called yourself "god" and say you can do miracles.

Most important you lie about Jesus and you drag Jesus down to a level lower than yourself --- saying He hid --- was it under the table or where? As for Paul, you forget that Paul is not "god"; in fact, Paul himself confirmed that he is not "god". Moreover Paul recognised that a miracle can only happen through him, when God Himself wants it to happen. Paul was different from you and your senior fraudsters who say miracle is common place in your hands. By now needing security and not able to rely on your common place miracles you people have shown yourselves to be liars and frauds.

That is the difference "my dear". 

Enigma:

After you have answered all the ones I have already put to you. 

The scripture you quoted does it suggest disappearance ? HE hid. Either he hid in a place or used people as shield , he hid for safety. Different translations may differ but he hid. The Greek word says hid.


John 8:59. (Amplified)
59 So they took up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus, by mixing with the crowd, concealed Himself and went out of the temple [ enclosure].

John 8:59 (GWT)
59 Then some of the Jews picked up stones to throw at Jesus. However, Jesus was concealed, and he left the temple courtyard.

Yeah, you are right; he hid under the table.

Grey Beard:

I would have to agree with nuclearboy here. The swords were a cultural aspect at the time. I would also like to stress an important point here that Jesus did not employ or commission any of his disciples for His security. They were his disciples who at times reacted when they thought their teacher and master was in danger.
Today's pastors on the other hand commission certain individuals to act solely as their personal bodyguards. Jesus never did this and there is a very clear distinction between friends trying to protect you and employing bodyguards.

So carrying of arms are solely for cultural purposes?
How naive!
It's no ones business if any body decides to have guards,
If Jesus can hide himself,so can any other person, that was wisdom at that point,
We all function at different levels,and so if I am comfortable with guards fine if am not fine,it's a thing of choice

Enigma:

Look, stop dribbling yourself; also, your Bible twisting may work on your flock and similarly uninformed or misinformed people but not on Christians with their minds in the right place.

First, no one has said MOGs or even Christians should not take security precautions. What people have been going on about is your hypocrisy: if you are "god", and you can do miracles, and if you and Oyakhilome can do greater works than Jesus, then you should not need security. If you still need security, then you were lying when you called yourself "god" and say you can do miracles.

Most important you lie about Jesus and you drag Jesus down to a level lower than yourself --- saying He hid --- was it under the table or where? As for Paul, you forget that Paul is not "god"; in fact, Paul himself confirmed that he is not "god". Moreover Paul recognised that a miracle can only happen through him, when God Himself wants it to happen. Paul was different from you and your senior fraudsters who say miracle is common place in your hands. By now needing security and not able to rely on your common place miracles you people have shown yourselves to be liars and frauds.

That is the difference "my dear". 

Now that your are exposed with this invincible Jesus thing and no place to hide. You have to come after oywkhilome. I understand. You have to change the direction into "ye are God" thing. . No wahala. But first ,this thread is not about oywkhilome . My involvement is a general one. How many MOG teaches "ye are gods" . You usually do this manipulation. After your wrong idea has received scriptural koboko, you usually raise a new topic. YOU ARE GOD KO , YOU ARE IMAAM NI .  
Be a man for once. Stand your ground. Open the bible and defend yourself . If your idea is proven false . Humbly accept or just keep quiet .MISITA ENIGMA

Azibalua:

So carrying of arms are solely for cultural purposes?
How naive!
It's no ones business if any body decides to have guards,
If Jesus can hide himself,so can any other person, that was wisdom at that point,
We all function at different levels,and so if I am comfortable with guards fine if am not fine,it's a thing of choice

Ask the Bobo o. I'm sure Mary carried dagger too. As a culture. (an enigmatic culture)

@Mabel

mabell:

I agree with you joagbaje,
True humility is accepting what the bible says
If the bible says Jesus’ disciples carried swords, then let’s take it like that
If it says Jesus hid, then he did hide
Security is our responsible
Lets take a look at Peter who was smuggled out of the city because of the threat on his life
What do you have to say about that?

I posted the scripture you tried to quote. But it was paul and not peter.

Acts 9:23-25
23 And after that many days were fulfilled, the Jews took counsel to kill him: 24 But their laying await was known of Saul. And they watched the gates day and night to kill him. 25 Then the disciples took him by night, and let him down by the wall in a basket.

@op i wonder  

Enigma:

First, no one has said MOGs or even Christians should not take security precautions. What people have been going on about is your hypocrisy: if you are "god", and you can do miracles, and if you and Oyakhilome can do greater works than Jesus, then you should not need security. If you still need security, then you were lying when you called yourself "god" and say you can do miracles.
Most important you lie about Jesus and you drag Jesus down to a level lower than yourself --- saying He hid --- was it under the table or where? As for Paul, you forget that Paul is not "god"; in fact, Paul himself confirmed that he is not "god". Moreover Paul recognised that a miracle can only happen through him, when God Himself wants it to happen. Paul was different from you and your senior fraudsters who say miracle is common place in your hands. By now needing security and not able to rely on your common place miracles [color=#990000][b]you people have shown yourselves to be liars

Strange talk,very strange
Paul that could shake of a snake from his hand( I need not mention that's a miracle) could take off being assisted by men whose culture allows them to carry swords,and it was okay for him to take off! The great apostle Paul!

@enigma

In addition , this your "ye are god" camouflag was not about MOGs. The message is for all of us. I wonder why you singled only MOG out.

nuclearboy:

@Jo: I think you miss their point.

We know Christ was hated by the Religious leaders and that there were many attempts on His life yet he would hide or go someplace else until His SET time arrived when He gave Himself up. Your allegory to His Disciples carrying swords is therefore wrong because culture in those days and place informed that many people carried arms just as in the north today, many carry daggers and in the USA, many carry guns. So the 2 swords were a product of culture rather than protection or aggression.

So except if you wish to argue that your "MOGs" have bodyguards as a product of culture or DUE TO norms i.e. it is fashionable to have bodyguards if you're a "big man", your train of thought is wrong. And it is acceptable (though childish) that they do it as norms; after-all, humans are vain

Ok lets agree that it was informed by culture but is it for cutting grasses it was deyond any doubt primarily to serve as a defence against any offensive from wicked and unreasonable men like arm bandicts, robbers etc

As usual, an uninspiring and particularly daft attempt at a rebuttal - what is it with you people anyway? Did they replace your brains with coolaid?

Tell me - when Scotsmen wear skirts as culture, is it also because they are women since you say the only reason to carry swords culturally is to fight?

You people need to study and know about the world around you