So this his "Aboh Kingdom" is [i]only [/i]16th century, and he is here trying to convince the world that this his "Aboh Kingdom" founded people that are much much older than it.

wesley80:

@Asha,
Your bolded portion on the article on Ndokwa/Ukwuani history refers;
It wld be perfectly normal to find folks with Igbo or Igala origin in Aboh but to fully understand what that means u'd have to understand what it means to be an "Aboh man". Aboh is made up of the Umudei and the Ndiche with the latter further split into the Ndiche ukwu and Ndiche nta. The umudei are the direct descendants of the founder of the kingdom and by default Princes and potential "Omordi's" and are the ONLY ones that can vie for kingship so long as their mother is NOT an Aboh princess. The Ndiche ukwu on the other hand consists of the descendants of die hard loyalists that joined the prince in his journey but not descendants of the Bini stool while the Ndiche nta are those that have lived for generations in Aboh but with varying roots. Only an Ndiche can hold the title of Iyasere (Iyase) ie PM, but on the condition that his mother MUST be an Aboh princess therefor there is full integration of all classes with everyone rightfully an Aboh person but with varying roots. So you see a section can claim to be from Israel and they'll be right, but the TRUE origin and genealogy of Aboh stands.
Amb Ralph Uwechue (yes your Generalissimo) espoused on this in one of his write ups online, I suggest u get busy. The more u know the better it gets. More to come.

How can bini princes be calliing themselves UMUDEI,don't they have a bini word for UMU,this is my problem with all these bini stories,they are just not convincing.

^^^ Not here to convince you bro, just laying out the facts the way it is. As a matter of fact, those words were prolly recent coinages considering the fact that there was really no need for a distinctive term in the early days of the kingdom.

. . and the fact is, this your "Aboh Kingdom" didn't found any "Aboh Mbaise". That is the way it is.

^^ Maybe "found" isnt the right term I give u that, but you're yet to convince me Abohs influence was not that overpowering that your kinsmen thot it appropriate to name a huge administrative district over a small town along the Niger. Whichever way u choose to look at it, your ancestors were awed by a certain "Aboh" people and I can only think of one!

wesley80:

^^ Maybe "found" isnt the right term I give u that, but you're yet to convince me Abohs influence was not that overpowering that your kinsmen thot it appropriate to name a huge administrative district over a small town along the Niger. Whichever way u choose to look at it, your ancestors were awed by a certain "Aboh" people and I can only think of one!

high level of self deceit mixed with delusion of the highest other. 

the bolded alone  shows how highly ignorant of the people on the other side of the niger 

yes mbaise people were awed by the great and the mighty aboh kingdom they probably started knowing by reading articles in 80s. 

i seriously need the number of your weed man

Tell me when the gloves come off, I'd be glad to indulge you. You guys have been messing around making silly references and citing shallow articles and not one of you has been able to come out with anything concrete to counter my assertions - Pathetic! The way this is going I prolly cld convince u guys are ijaws!

wesley80:

^^ Maybe "found" isnt the right term I give u that, but you're yet to convince me Abohs influence was not that overpowering that your kinsmen thot it appropriate to name a huge administrative district over a small town along the Niger. Whichever way u choose to look at it, your ancestors were awed by a certain "Aboh" people and I can only think of one!

Traded slaves directly with Europeans, one of the first Igbo settlements to be explored by Europeans hence its old naming of Eboe Town, apart from that I don't know how the Aboh kingdom became this great empire all of a sudden. In fact, I can't remember reading anything about Aboh expanding its borders, or about any wars Aboh fought. Can you fill us in?

And this administrative district thing you're clinging on to is a clear sign that you're acting petty. Many of these districts were named by the biggest or most prominent town in the region, in this case it was Aboh, which is why the district came to be known as Aboh. There were no "ancestors" picking these devisions, except of those of the British Empire.

[center][/center]

As you can see there was also an Owerri district, Orlu, Okigwi, Onitsha (which is larger than 1991's Anambra State), Abakaliki, Awka, and so on. So are these towns also conquering empires? Sometimes you just have to think if this is how the majority of Nigerians think.

@wesley, then don't say "found". As for this talk of your "Aboh Kingdom" which I never heard of, and this invisible "influence"; simple conjecture. Just stay on your side of the Niger. Don't come here to tell me about my kin. Don't come here making flat out disgusting and and ignorant claims of a people you know nothing about.

ezeagu:

Traded slaves directly with Europeans, one of the first Igbo settlements to be explored by Europeans hence its old naming of Eboe Town, apart from that I don't know how the Aboh kingdom became this great empire all of a sudden. In fact, I can't remember reading anything about Aboh expanding its borders, or about any wars Aboh fought. Can you fill us in?

And this administrative district thing you're clinging on to is a clear sign that you're acting petty. Many of these districts were named by the biggest or most prominent town in the region, in this case it was Aboh, which is why the district came to be known as Aboh. There were no "ancestors" picking these devisions, except of those of the British Empire.

[center][/center]

As you can see there was also an Owerri district, Orlu, Okigwi, Onitsha (which is larger than 1991's Anambra State), Abakaliki, Awka, and so on. So are these towns also conquering empires? Sometimes you just have to think if this is how the majority of Nigerians think.

Nice to see someone offering some sort of reasonable challenge finally. I commend you but obviously there's still a huge deal you dont know and for your benefit and mine, I just bumped a thread in the politics section on the Igbanke episode. Pls read through the last page and Ogbuefi's response to PhysicsQed He specifically spoke on Aboh history in one of his numbered points. His post is insightful though i do not agree with his assertions.

ChinenyeN:

@wesley, then don't say "found".

Ewu, that's why I put it on quote. Why not stop fooling about and engage your brain? You're yet to make one sensible post in the entire thread.

Many of these districts were named by the
biggest or most prominent town in the region, in
this case it was Aboh, which is why the district
came to be known as Aboh. There were no
"ancestors" picking these devisions, except of
those of the British Empire.

Ok. Point taken. But your assertion is just as much a conjecture as you believe mine is, so we r even.
Seriously though, I knew I didnt have enough ammunition to follow through on the Mbaise claim but at the same time I expected something a lot more concrete than I've seen here and while I may back down on that claim, let me warn you that it wasnt actually my claim as it is a view held by a number of people I've spoken to and nothing i repeat NOTHING I'Ve heard hear completely convinces me otherwise. In the interest of this thread, I'll let the Mbaise people be.

ChinenyeN:

@wesley, then don't say "found". As for this talk of your "Aboh Kingdom" which I never heard of, and this invisible "influence"; simple conjecture. Just stay on your side of the Niger. Don't come here to tell me about my kin. Don't come here making flat out disgusting and and ignorant claims of a people you know nothing about.

Chinenye, you really need to do better than that boy here, you are not doing it at the moment. It's not like you posting in this thread recently.

You're right. It's unlike myself, but I'm not concerned. So long as this Aboh person knows that no one is accepting that the foolishness, I'm fine. I've already had enough of people from other unknown zones coming to tell me about my own kin. I don't need this Bini-fostered descendant, from the other side of the Niger opening his mouth about a people he knows nothing about. He should just keep his otule on the other side of the Niger, where he belongs.

^^^ Actually you're just being your obnoxious self but here's a news flash; you can be nasty all you want but it wont change a thing. Your ultra sensitive hypocritical self should know respect is reciprocal, you cant demand what you dont give so if you cannot entertain legitimate questions about 'your kin' (who you apparently do not know a single thing about) you should refrain from engaging in debate about others. And FYI as an Aboh man I'm welcome on all sides of the Niger and that's something I do not expect an ignorant Ngwa man to understand!

No one is asking for respect. As an Ngwa man, I don't give a single anini about who or what you welcome. That's not what this is about. Instead this is about you speaking on a people you know nothing about. Now, this whole thing would have been different, if at all you knew the people you were speaking about. At least then, I would have entertained your foolish and ignorant conjectures, but the fact is you do not know anything about these people. That I am sure of.

Just remain on you side of the Niger, Aboh man. Remain in that your "Aboh Kingdom" that I've never heard of.

^^ You obviously are here to annoy right? There's just one ignorant man between us and its you and I'll say whatever I like and you cant do sheet! An intellectually lazy ethnic supremacist incapable of putting together a sentence worth reading twice yet wont Shut da hell up and allow reasonable people contribute. Maybe they should pull the words 'empty barrells' and replace them with 'ChinenyeNgwa'. Onye isi ekete!

When you finally figure out who you're making unfounded claims about, and when you're finally ready to learn, then we can have an intellectual discussion. But until then, and so long as you continue to make dumb conjectures, you will always be an ignorant Aboh man from that you unknown "Aboh Kingdom".

^^^ You're much too proud to ever engage in a sensible debate. Your senseless and needless pride oozes miles ahead of you and you're completely useless to engage in an intellectual discuss devoid of emotion and needless devotion. You're better off fighting your disgraceful endless tribal wars with the likes of Ileke Idi and Seanet, at least your foolish pride would surely make you rise to the occasion. I'm sure that qualifies as an intellectual discussion in your book. It is people like you that make others fight tooth and nail to dissociate themselves from the Igbo identity, seriously you need to get a life. A sensible person would take a second to reflect and adjust his tone but an Ngwa man with pride for brain cells would say;

Keep running your mouth. You have yet to prove that you know anything about who Mbaise people are. So you honestly cannot believe that I will be so kind as to entertain you ignorance by engaging you in "intellectual" discussion. Instead, I will maintain this one simple rule for the simple Aboh person that you are; 'make ignorant statements, and I will give you insolent responses'. If you don't like it, then stay on your side of the Niger with your invisible "Aboh Kingdom" and leave Mbaise alone.

^^ Exactly what a dim witted Ngwaman with pride for brain cells would say. True to type!

See you. I've caught you with your foolishness. You know nothing about Mbaise. So you decided to shift the discussion toward calling me a 'dimwitted Ngwaman'. You and this your invisible "Aboh Kingdom" and it's invisible "influence". If you knew anything about Mbaise, then you would be making your "Aboh" case, but you haven't. Why? Because you cannot. So who is the person with pride here? Is it not he who cannot admit his lack of knowledge? You've been caught red-handed with ignorance. You know nothing about Mbaise. And if you know nothing about Mbaise, then how can you even begin to know anything about Ngwa to make such comments as "true to type". LOL Abeg, Aboh man if you want to learn, then say you want to learn, and I will teach you. But don't come here vomiting conjectures and then when you get caught start churning out these your lame excuses for insults.

I've already made my case and if you were too daft to comprehend that's your problem. No one has controverted the fact that Igbo towns like Osemele, Ogbaru, Idemili, Oguta have people that trace their roots back to my invincible Aboh kingdom and your big mouthed self is yet to tell me why an entire LGA in the heart of your homeland was named after my invincible Aboh kingdom a supposedly obscure Igbo clan. Some of those towns founded along the coast like Idemili were originally outposts used to wage war and protect the kingdom but her people possibly migrated further inland as evident in other inland Aboh founded settlements as Orogun and Ofobor. Perhaps you can convince me they were Crocs that had to live along the coast as a matter of survival? Not one reasonable sentence have you been able to piece together since your unfortunate entry into this thread, All i've heard from you have been diversionary senseless jibes atypical of the authority you'lld have people think you are. I dont know how old you are but you've still got a great deal of growing up to do.

wesley80:

tell me why an entire LGA in the heart of your homeland was named after my invincible Aboh kingdom a supposedly obscure Igbo clan.

There it is right there. You can't even stop to inquire as to why the administrative district is called "Aboh". No. Such a thought does not for once even cross you mind. Instead, out of sheer ignorance, you sit here and assume that the administrative district was "named after" your invisible "Aboh Kingdom". What's worse is that you know nothing about Mbaise. You are ignorant about Mbaise, and you know that, and YOU KNOW we know it too. So how exactly could you think that you are correct, when you don't even know the people you are talking about?

Aboh man, if you want to learn, then say you want to learn, and someone will teach you. Otherwise, carry yourself back to the other side of the Niger where you belong.

/\ /\ /\ chineye you now know how it feels? its hurts, is'nt it? my advice. do unto others as you will want them do unto you. you do not know nothing bout the ukwani so do not say anything bout them. To the history master> thank you but your history has turned the topic the other way. so coplicated. you sided every side. (Orchu isu enoh) four fased mask. we dont need all that. Ukwani people want to be called Ukwani people. simple. what is hard there? we may have migrated from hearvens knows where but now we are in our own 'UKWUANI'. We are Ukwuani people.

I do not think that a group of people can leave Benin and yet be Igbo-speaking if they were not originally Igbo(such a sudden language swap makes no logical sense).

Many historians have alluded to a westward movement of Igbo people during a period before the 15th century A.D. Obviously, the ancestors of Ukwuani people(inclusive of Esumai-Ukwu, founder of Aboh and the rest) were among the same groups as the Igbo-speaking Eze chima gangs who retracted back eastwards following their differences with the Benin kingdom. Most definitely, the returning groups were ethnic Igbo else they would have been a bini-speaking race today.

That said, there's nothing spectacular or exceptional with the ukwuani people's claim of a benin stop-over(so do other groups like the onitsha Igbos, Ikwerre, etc). So having a Benin angle to ones history doesn't change anything IMHO and
doesn't hold much water.

Its a shame that this thread and the other Delta Igbo thread has lasted so long without any logical stop. No matter when the Igbo movement started, once you were part of the people that started it, and you speak at least a variation of the language, it is in your interest to remain Igbo. Any other acts amounts to inferiority complex and self denial. It is acknowledged that the origin of all Igbos is diverse but there must have existed an advanced strong Igbo empire that was relegated to extinction by a lot of factors. If you study the languages spoken in fringe Igbo areas, they seem to be related even more than the agreed core areas. An example is the use of "Ali" for land in Ika and Ehugbo. This shows that "Ali" was the original word as it dissappears between Aniocha and Umuahia. If you move further South beyond Ngwa and Etche, "Ali" will again resurface in Ikwerre. A whole lot of words like that exist.

I also want to note that differences exist as in other ethnic groups.

ogiye:

/\ /\ /\  chineye you now know how it feels? its hurts, is'nt it? my advice. do unto others as you will want them do unto you. you do not know nothing bout the ukwani so do not say anything bout them

What do you mean "hurts"? Don't drag me into this your Igbo/nonIgbo nonsense. I don't play that blind mice game with you people from the other side of the Niger. If you like, stay where you are and remain in whatever small invisible "kingdoms" you all come from. Ngwa, Mbaise, etc. have never had any concern for you Niger people. We don't care what you all do with yourselves, just don't cross that river to talk about these your invisible "kingdoms".

It's even interesting that the 'Ali' for earth is common among the so-called Igbos with 'benin' ancestry/stop-over claim.

Abagworo, what do you think of the westward expansion of Igbos from the Igbo mainland as far as Benin, and their subsequent retraction? I've read it in a couple of sources. I also read somewhere that they were migrant Aros.

None of the people could have been migrant Aro (at least, not the founders). That would place their settlement in the 18th & 19th centuries.
As for the western Igbo. All I'm interested in is the time frame for the supposed retraction. Which centuries?

ChinenyeN:

None of the people could have been migrant Aro (at least, not the founders). That would place their settlement in the 18th & 19th centuries.
As for the western Igbo. All I'm interested in is the time frame for the supposed retraction. Which centuries?

I do not think these migrant Aros were part of the slave-trading Aros, they left before the Aro confederacy.

Time frame for retraction? 15th century when Eze chima and some others left.

The retraction may have started earlier beyond Benin.

Most people in the west speak like Oka people that have grown up in Benin. They're Nri Oka, that's what they claim.