ezeagu:

Most people in the west speak like Oka people that have grown up in Benin. They're Nri Oka, that's what they claim.

Is the Oka claim generally accepted or documented? If so I need to update my info.

The Nri-Oka as in language. Nri, or Nshi as in most claims of ancestry, like from the obi of Owa and the people of Aniocha (which is why there's an Ogwa Nshi Ukwu)

ezeagu:

The Nri-Oka as in language. Nri, or Nshi as in most claims of ancestry, like from the obi of Owa and the people of Aniocha (which is why there's an Ogwa Nshi Ukwu)

Ok, I get it. This was my initial knowledge(that they were descendents of Eri) before I came across the migrant Aros story.

There was no "Aro" until the late 17th century, and Arochukwu traditions are rather explicit. People didn't start migrating from "Aro" until around the 18th century. Arochukwu is comparatively among the youngest of communities.

ChinenyeN:

There was no "Aro" until the late 17th century, and Arochukwu traditions are rather explicit. People didn't start migrating from "Aro" until around the 18th century. Arochukwu is comparatively among the youngest of communities.

It's obvious the 'Aro' claim is erroneous. Thanks.

Question, for anyone willing/able to answer: A lot of people (historians, scholars, whatever) make reference to some kind of "period of mass migration" that supposedly occurred in Igbo area. Does anyone here have any idea as to when he/she believes this time period was?

mbatuku2:

It's obvious the 'Aro' claim is erroneous. Thanks.

So, are you saying you don't buy the Aro claims? Because in your earlier posts, you made it sound as if you saw sense in the 'Aro migrant' claims.

ChinenyeN:

So, are you saying you don't buy the Aro claims? Because in your earlier posts, you made it sound as if you saw sense in the 'Aro migrant' claims.

Yeah. They had a grip over Igboland in the past(17th-19th century), though used for wrong purposes. They were also good travellers, which accounts for why there are several Aro communities scattered around Igboland. So I felt they were capable and organized enough to have made such daring journeys westwards toward Benin earlier.

Oh okay. I see where you're coming from with this. Well, if not for the time discrepancy, the pieces would have all fit.

Igbo gbako nu!!!!!
I've been following the various threads on who's Igbo and who's not. Do you know that there's no country in the world in which all its peoples have exactly the same ancestry? in fact, no ethnic group in the world. the country we call china has fifty something ethnic groups yet they chose to use one of the languages/dialects as official chinese. thats why you still hear that tibet wants to secede from china till date. but china is still intact. america doesnt need to be explained. we all know the story. our neighbour south africa has indians and dutch but they choose to be called south africans. they didnt argue to create a country for african indians or african dutchmen.

the nigerian setting has made igbo powerless for fear that igbo will dominate them. and so the little igbo(like) groups who are in border areas also fall for the idea and reduce their power more. if hausa in nigeria are 21 million, yoruba are 19m, igbo 18 (that is based on whatever census you want to agree with), imagine if all igbo(like) groups decide to be called one! would it not benefit even the rest minority tribes in Niger delta? would it not be easier to stop the marginalisation that comes when they hear you have an igbo name (even if you're from benue or edo) or that you're ika so you're igbo and they won't let you get delta slot for a particular appointment.

the strength of nations lies in their ability to stand as one notwithstanding. this article speaks my mind http://aspire.org.ng/2012/06/igbo-gbako-nu-a-call-for-unity/

if ikwerre say they are not igbo. no problem. same with ika, etche, ndoni etc. nobody is forcing anything on anyone. what igbo are saying is that if they want to be called igbo, they are already seen as brothers. it wont kill the rest igbo that other groups unify with them and decide on a common purpose so as to secure their collective future in a hostile nation and an ever changing world.

Danm,I am very angry I wasnt I missed this thread when it was hot!!

Am a proud Igboman and that is the best anybody can be.Hapu nu ndi si na ha wu kwale. We don't even need them.No bi there fault na Nigeria cos am.So do not waste precious time arguing over ppl who are not proud of their igbo heritage.

What is so special about Ukwuani people that the igbos will not allow them to be. Please we are ok as Ukwuani people, do try to be ok as an igbo person please. Do not make us to be what we are not. After all, we did not wake up one day and decided to be known and called Ukwuani people. If we accept to be igbo today, what happens to the Ukwuani. Will you discard the tribe because they speak bia like the igbo do? Do not alter history. Even if we speak 100% the same word for word, it will not change the fact that we are Ukwuani people. So allow us to be. We are who we are. THE UKWUANI PEOPLE and not Igbo people ok.

PhinaBrown: What is so special about Ukwuani people that the igbos will not allow them to be. Please we are ok as Ukwuani people, do try to be ok as an igbo person please. Do not make us to be what we are not. After all, we did not wake up one day and decided to be known and called Ukwuani people. If we accept to be igbo today, what happens to the Ukwuani. Will you discard the tribe because they speak bia like the igbo do? Do not alter history. Even if we speak 100% the same word for word, it will not change the fact that we are Ukwuani people. So allow us to be. We are who we are. THE UKWUANI PEOPLE and not Igbo people ok.

You shouldn't be worried over claims that Ukwuanis are Igbos. It will not make loose your Ukwuani identity just as Nnewi or Mbano man has not lust his identity.
You can be Ukwuani and Igbo at the same time. You can be a Deltan and a Nigerian at the same time. Do not create identity crisis in Ukwualaland

PhinaBrown: What is so special about Ukwuani people that the igbos will not allow them to be. Please we are ok as Ukwuani people, do try to be ok as an igbo person please. Do not make us to be what we are not. After all, we did not wake up one day and decided to be known and called Ukwuani people. If we accept to be igbo today, what happens to the Ukwuani. Will you discard the tribe because they speak bia like the igbo do? Do not alter history. Even if we speak 100% the same word for word, it will not change the fact that we are Ukwuani people. So allow us to be. We are who we are. THE UKWUANI PEOPLE and not Igbo people ok.

Ermmm Mam, we are actually "Ndokwas" not "Ukwuanis". We (in Ndokwa East) do not want to be called Ukwuanis cos we arent.
Now how petty do I sound?

U

PhinaBrown: What is so special about Ukwuani people that the igbos will not allow them to be. Please we are ok as Ukwuani people, do try to be ok as an igbo person please. Do not make us to be what we are not. After all, we did not wake up one day and decided to be known and called Ukwuani people. If we accept to be igbo today, what happens to the Ukwuani. Will you discard the tribe because they speak bia like the igbo do? Do not alter history. Even if we speak 100% the same word for word, it will not change the fact that we are Ukwuani people. So allow us to be. We are who we are. THE UKWUANI PEOPLE and not Igbo people ok.

So,Ukwuani is a "tribe" ?? Read what you just wrote here and tell me you don't sound ridiculous.

I don't know if they are Igbos or not but Ukwuani dialect is more intelligible to all Igbos than 95% of the dialects in Igboland.

https://www.nairaland.com/274104/ukwuani-people-igbos-ukwuani-people/8

Ụkwụànì (sometimes spelled Ụkwànì) are a distinct ethnic group of people located in the
heart of Delta State in the Delta North Senatorial
District area of Delta and are closely related to the Ndoni people found in Rivers states in Nigeria. They supported the Nigerian cause during the
civil war and do not in any way consider
themselves to be of the Igbo stock. It is widely
believed that some of their ancestry can be
traced to the Benin Kingdom of Edo as is recorded
in some of their oral history and folklore. The culture, customs and dress sense of the Ukwuani
people is very similar to that of the Urhobos,
Itsekiris, Ijaws and Isokos which form a major
part of the coastal ethnic groups of Delta State. Language The Ụkwụànì dialect, is intelligible with the
dialects of Aboh and Ndoni. Some commentators consider it distinct from the Igbo language. Ukwuani as a language is definitely not Igbo
though there are similarities in names, etc.

wesley80: ^^ Its my word against yours. Thanks but i'll stick with mine till you can tell me why Mbaise people chose to prefix their name with that of a certain once very powerful kingdom along the banks of the Niger. BTW what does that term A-B-O-H connote in Igbo or Mbaise? Its prolly a corrupted word i hear you say, right? Nice try, but it wont fly!

To the best of my knowledge, I think 'Aboh' stands for a small uninhabited but forested area within a residential site. There's is this part of my village we call 'aboh'. It is a bushy area with farmlands and plenty palm trees but located within residential areas. Now, this is how we use the word 'aboh' in my place. My village is divided broadly into three quarters. From my quarter to the other quarter there are two routes viz a popular junction and this said aboh. Statements like this abound: ''since it's yet to be dark, let's pass through the aboh so as to get home on time".

Utagbe- Ugbe , Ukwuani origin researched by Ugboh ikechukwu Emmanuel of Umusadege, Utagba-Ogbe. Ukwuani is latterly called ukwani was original owner of Benin land. Ukwani means the land owner. Which I called Homo-ukwuani. During the expansion of Yoruba to form edo kingdom, they met Ukwuani and became one people and this means that edo language is a mixture of Yoruba and Ukwuani. They live in the same place so it was called Idu, ukwuani has developed to an extend with Eweka 1180 -1246 as their oba or leader at the present of ogiso who was Yoruba leader or edo (ubinu), Dahomey...kingdom, dynasty and through Ewaka, Agboh and Onicha was founded, this was during idar war. After the death of Eweka of Idu kingdom presently known as Benin, the oni of ife sent oranyan to took over from Eweka that was how power and history of Ukwuani was sealed, during the reign of Oba Ewuare known as Egwuara (1440-1473) who was the 12 oba of idu, he revoted against the indigenous of ukwuani to speak only edo language but main while edo language is a mixture of Yoruba and Ukwuani. So fight broke up between edo, Yorubas were edo, itsekhiri, ijaw, urhobo , isoko and Ukwuanis were ukwuani, Agboh and onicha. The Ukwuanis remain united and fought against the yorubas and the interior ukwuani fled out of Idu to their blessed land, flowing with milk and oil. This erra of new settlement give birth to Ukwuani state, latterly refers to as Anioma in 1951. Before they arose the ekumeku war between the white men and Ukwuani state, the new settlement is on this fact that egwura chase ukwuani family in different time, utagba-uno,Ugume,Amai, Aluku, Ugba-ani, Emu, is then called enu-ani which was later extended to all anichas and agboh and Aboh ,Opkai, Ndoni , Ase ,Askaka are called nde oshimili. Nde oshimili first settled at Afor and by cut Utagba-Ogbe which is the first head quarter to river side which Aboh became their headquarter which finally found the igbos at 17 century. Utagba-Ogbe was founded as Ukwani central headquarter which was founded by Utagba-Uno , majority and Ugbe-ani so we have Utagba and Ogbe at 1500, in total Ukwuani state was form between (1440-1555). Till today edo, itsekhiri, urhobo,ijaw, isoko remains Yoruba origin. Looking at Ukwuani state critically, you will see that the unity of ukwuani started from origin as united nation and that is why in 1868-1898 during ekumeku war the while couldn't find it easy with them and they accredited Utagba-Ogbe to be strong people like the people of southern Mumbasa Kenya, so utagba-Ogbe is then called kwale in combination to other ukwuani town e.g Utagba-Ogbe, Utagba-Uno, ashaka,ogume,emu,efor ugba-ani. Hon. Dennis Osadebay, found it ideological to come with Anioma name , A..anicha, n...ndokwa, I...ika, ma...nma..beautiful,blessed, anioma is good during bendel state in 1951 but it hide the history behind Ukwuani people. Ukwuani still remains one of the oldest ethnicity in Nigeria. Conclusion: anioma later get mixture with non ukwuani to derive a state name.hence, Ukwuani remains the true origin of Anioma people.

utagba-ogbe:
Utagbe- Ugbe , Ukwuani origin researched by Ugboh ikechukwu Emmanuel of Umusadege, Utagba-Ogbe. Ukwuani is latterly called ukwani was original owner of Benin land. Ukwani means the land owner. Which I called Homo-ukwuani. During the expansion of Yoruba to form edo kingdom, they met Ukwuani and became one people and this means that edo language is a mixture of Yoruba and Ukwuani. They live in the same place so it was called Idu, ukwuani has developed to an extend with Eweka 1180 -1246 as their oba or leader at the present of ogiso who was Yoruba leader or edo (ubinu), Dahomey...kingdom, dynasty and through Ewaka, Agboh and Onicha was founded, this was during idar war. After the death of Eweka of Idu kingdom presently known as Benin, the oni of ife sent oranyan to took over from Eweka that was how power and history of Ukwuani was sealed, during the reign of Oba Ewuare known as Egwuara (1440-1473) who was the 12 oba of idu, he revoted against the indigenous of ukwuani to speak only edo language but main while edo language is a mixture of Yoruba and Ukwuani. So fight broke up between edo, Yorubas were edo, itsekhiri, ijaw, urhobo , isoko and Ukwuanis were ukwuani, Agboh and onicha. The Ukwuanis remain united and fought against the yorubas and the interior ukwuani fled out of Idu to their blessed land, flowing with milk and oil. This erra of new settlement give birth to Ukwuani state, latterly refers to as Anioma in 1951. Before they arose the ekumeku war between the white men and Ukwuani state, the new settlement is on this fact that egwura chase ukwuani family in different time, utagba-uno,Ugume,Amai, Aluku, Ugba-ani, Emu, is then called enu-ani which was later extended to all anichas and agboh and Aboh ,Opkai, Ndoni , Ase ,Askaka are called nde oshimili. Nde oshimili first settled at Afor and by cut Utagba-Ogbe which is the first head quarter to river side which Aboh became their headquarter which finally found the igbos at 17 century. Utagba-Ogbe was founded as Ukwani central headquarter which was founded by Utagba-Uno , majority and Ugbe-ani so we have Utagba and Ogbe at 1500, in total Ukwuani state was form between (1440-1555). Till today edo, itsekhiri, urhobo,ijaw, isoko remains Yoruba origin. Looking at Ukwuani state critically, you will see that the unity of ukwuani started from origin as united nation and that is why in 1868-1898 during ekumeku war the while couldn't find it easy with them and they accredited Utagba-Ogbe to be strong people like the people of southern Mumbasa Kenya, so utagba-Ogbe is then called kwale in combination to other ukwuani town e.g Utagba-Ogbe, Utagba-Uno, ashaka,ogume,emu,efor ugba-ani. Hon. Dennis Osadebay, found it ideological to come with Anioma name , A..anicha, n...ndokwa, I...ika, ma...nma..beautiful,blessed, anioma is good during bendel state in 1951 but it hide the history behind Ukwuani people. Ukwuani still remains one of the oldest ethnicity in Nigeria. Conclusion: anioma later get mixture with non ukwuani to derive a state name.hence, Ukwuani remains the true origin of Anioma people.

Ignorance is bliss, i swear.

To imagine people east of the niger thinking they know the history of a people that were socially more developed than them from time memorial to this day.

Uhm....explain "socially more developed" in this context, if you don't mind.

Radoillo: Uhm....explain "socially more developed" in this context, if you don't mind.

Uhm......you'll probably wait till kingdom come for him to explain that.Tis something he simply plucked out of the air.
I would really love for him to explain how Aboh (their greatest) was socially more developed than,Nnewi for instance,before the white men came.
Not gonna happen tho,he simply does not know what he says

What did the white man recorded about nnewi if nnewi was more socially developed than aboh?

Yea, but like someone already said (and I know he is correct because I have a few Aboh friends), Aboh which is in Ndokwa East is not even Ukwuani. The people we often lump together and label 'Ukwuani' are actually two distinct, though similar, groups....Ukwuani and Ndosumili.

Without Ndosumili, what social super-achievements was Pharoh talking about? I really wish he could explain that.

They are the same people just as aniocha and oshimili people come together to refer to themselves as enuani. It is because one is a land based community while the other is a riverine based community. Two systems inside one community of related people but even those who did not organize themselves in a monarchy system still have some social structure and organization embedded in their system. The consciousness is still intact and with the benefit of modern civilization then they only need to be in the confinement of their own space to push development forward.

This is unlike in the southeast where they have been in their own confinement for a long time to this day but the roots of what the colonialist met before organizing them to this level is still embedded in the present dispensation. This is not a dick measuring contest for me because we can go on and on to argue our points without anyone accepting the view of the other. The point i am trying to pass is what you should focus on and there won't be issues like this if people are respected for the way they wish to structure and organize themselves.

The point of the aboh reference is for you to cite a similar system across the Niger because you rightly said that though distinct but they are actually one group. Those times have past and we live in the modern era but the truth is that you guys are not still socially organized to bring out the best out of a population of over 30 million people. This 30 million is composed of many educated people but instead of them to fix themselves first, the most important thing for them is to disturb themselves about anioma people.

We are together known as Ndokwas and what ever a sub component achieves is the glory of the whole group.

Pharoh: They are the same people just as aniocha and oshimili people come together to refer to themselves as enuani. It is because one is a land based community while the other is a riverine based community. Two systems inside one community of related people but even those who did not organize themselves in a monarchy system still have some social structure and organization embedded in their system. The consciousness is still intact and with the benefit of modern civilization then they only need to be in the confinement of their own space to push development forward.

This is unlike in the southeast where they have been in their own confinement for a long time to this day but the roots of what the colonialist met before organizing them to this level is still embedded in the present dispensation. This is not a dick measuring contest for me because we can go on and on to argue our points without anyone accepting the view of the other. The point i am trying to pass is what you should focus on and there won't be issues like this if people are respected for the way they wish to structure and organize themselves.

The point of the aboh reference is for you to cite a similar system across the Niger because you rightly said that though distinct but they are actually one group. Those times have past and we live in the modern era but the truth is that you guys are not still socially organized to bring out the best out of a population of over 30 million people. This 30 million is composed of many educated people but instead of them to fix themselves first, the most important thing for them is to disturb themselves about anioma people.

We are together known as Ndokwas and what ever a sub component achieves is the glory of the whole group.

I did say he would dodge the question,didn't I?.
Btw @Pharoh,since you've shown you know next to nothing about the social structure n organization of Igbo tribes east of the Niger,I would advise u educate yourself ere u keep making a show of urself.If memory serves right,there's a recent thread on Oka,its history,structure n organization here in nairaland's culture section.Its not that comprehensive,but it would be a nice place as any to start ur education. Like u said,it's not a dick measuring contest.Believe me,that of ur area is but a very tiny weeny compared to what obtain east of the Niger.

It's not a dick-measuring contest...yet u were the first to make the claim of being more "socially advanced" than east Niger folks. A claim u are yet to substantiate. I honestly don't think you understand political and social organization in the precolonial southeast. And you are repeating the fallacy that monarchies were neccessarily more sophisticated than non-monarchies.

Anyway, the fact of Nigerian history is this: Southeastern societies like Nri and Aro left more indelible social and cultural imprints than any Ukwuani or Ndosumili community ever did. Sorry. I'm an admirer of Aboh kingdom. But this is fact.

There is no fallacy there as i have told you that both were practiced in Ndokwa land and it is this fact i am pointing to that there is nothing east of the Niger that was better than what we had. This is why i said it is not a dick measuring contest because you have nothing to prove to me like i have nothing to prove to you too. You guys always make derogatory remarks about us and you have to take my remarks in that context too and if you go back to my original post, you will see that i was laughing. There would have been no need for this kind of remarks if you people respect the wish of others because left to we ndokwas we got no problem with anybody.

Except for few examples like the aboh kingdom, aros etc, both sides were practically at the same level because there was nothing like one big organized igbo group at that point in time. I am referring to ethnic grouping during this period because the aros went about their life as aro people before the whiteman came with the igbo identity and this gives the foundation to claim a southeastern society. Despite all these you can claim nri and aro to be greater while i can claim mine to be better. This is why i said it is not a dick measuring contest because if not we will just go on and on from pages to pages but take it as a jibe and leave it there.

pokur:
I did say he would dodge the question,didn't I?.
Btw @Pharoh,since you've shown you know next to nothing about the social structure n organization of Igbo tribes east of the Niger,I would advise u educate yourself ere u keep making a show of urself.If memory serves right,there's a recent thread on Oka[b],its history,structure n organization here in nairaland's culture section[/b].Its not that comprehensive,but it would be a nice place as any to start ur education. Like u said,it's not a dick measuring contest.Believe me,that of ur area is but a very tiny weeny compared to what obtain east of the Niger.

So what do you know about the Ndokwa people history, structure and organization to make such a remark?. If it is tiny to what is obtained east of the Niger then you should be proud to stick to that instead of disturbing other people to identify with you. It might be tiny to you but we are proud of it, we will stick to it and will not give it up for any rubbish you have east of the Niger. You guys should be concerned about your igboland because even if you gain your independence from Nigeria today, you will still not not develop to your real potential because of this same lack of social development i am alluding to. You can be proud of whatever you obtained precolonial times but am telling you that if it was really sophisticated, you will not be crying about FG neglect because your society is an homogenous society unlike the present space occupied by Ndokwa people. Instead of you to look inward and fix your society, your preoccupation is to disturb other people in place of fixing your dysfunctional society that is hampering your own development.

Pharoh: There is no fallacy there as i have told you that both were practiced in Ndokwa land and it is this fact i am pointing to that there is nothing east of the Niger that was better than what we had. This is why i said it is not a dick measuring contest because you have nothing to prove to me like i have nothing to prove to you too. You guys always make derogatory remarks about us and you have to take my remarks in that context too and if you go back to my original post, you will see that i was laughing. There would have been no need for this kind of remarks if you people respect the wish of others because left to we ndokwas we got no problem with anybody.

Except for few examples like the aboh kingdom, aros etc, both sides were practically at the same level because there was nothing like one big organized igbo group at that point in time. I am referring to ethnic grouping during this period because the aros went about their life as aro people before the whiteman came with the igbo identity and this gives the foundation to claim a southeastern society. Despite all these you can claim nri and aro to be greater while i can claim mine to be better. This is why i said it is not a dick measuring contest because if not we will just go on and on from pages to pages but take it as a jibe and leave it there.



So what do you know about the Ndokwa people history, structure and organization to make such a remark?. If it is tiny to what is obtained east of the Niger then you should be proud to stick to that instead of disturbing other people to identify with you. It might be tiny to you but we are proud of it, we will stick to it and will not give it up for any rubbish you have east of the Niger. You guys should be concerned about your igboland because even if you gain your independence from Nigeria today, you will still not not develop to your real potential because of this same lack of social development i am alluding to. You can be proud of whatever you obtained precolonial times but am telling you that if it was really sophisticated, you will not be crying about FG neglect because your society is an homogenous society unlike the present space occupied by Ndokwa people. Instead of you to look inward and fix your society, your preoccupation is to disturb other people in place of fixing your dysfunctional society that is hampering your own development.

Dude,u are blowing hot air.And ere u think to obfuscate issues,we are talking about social structure n organization here.You know,that claim of being socially n organizationally superior to eastern tribes since time "immemorial"

Pharoh: To imagine people east of the niger thinking they know the history of a people that were socially more developed than them from time memorial to this day.