Yeah. If they were, tell us their names. Only names are OK. I know everyone can make a little search.

are you denying? unless you want to tell us that islamic writers now depend on Christians to transmit their writings.

No one in their Right minds is going to bang on about any such ideas after reading this sura,

What supports the whole saga even there?

you mean the abrogated suras? the ones allah revealed after he changed his mind on his daughters?

and He says He does not have a son, either.

Quit playing such a game with me, Nezan. At a risk of sounding pompous, I would say my intelligence is far beyond that. And you know!

I asked you myriad questions and you deceptively skip to answer them. Yet you changed from answering to asking me some more questions.  You more over refuse to, apparently, recant your earlier assertion that ahadeeth report the incident. Thereupon after finishing your copy and paste forte action, you still fail.

Simply answer my questions directly.

Any way, let me debunk these two replies as usual:

Nezan:

are you denying? unless you want to tell us that islamic writers now depend on Christians to transmit their writings.

I say bring forth their names. And they don't.

Tell me who coined the term "Satanic verses"? You know this is English, not Arabic. Right?

Nezan:

you mean the abrogated suras? the ones allah revealed after he changed his mind on his daughters?

Refer to Qur'an chapter 112. This terrifyingly untrue. Period!

P:S

Abrogation in God's scriptures is nothing new. And He is above being questioned over all His deeds.

Don't miscalculate me, ain't saying these verses are ever abrogated, for they never existed.

Don't miscalculate me, ain't saying these verses are ever abrogated, for they never existed.

Then why did al-Tabari and ibn-Sa'id refer to them?

Well, you don't have answers to the other questions, huh? Lets carry on. . .

Nezan:

Then why did al-Tabari and ibn-Sa'id refer to them?

They are reported to them from a very unreliable, soundless and worth discarding sources.

Remember, the verses are never reported in any Hadeeth. It's his book of Tareekh, i.e. history book, that ever reported it. And he further made a "disclaimer" that he should not be held account for any false account; he faithfully transmitted what he got.

Many Islamic exegeses, historian, Qur'an commentators and the likes of reliable stand fourth-with threw his poor quality account. While non-Muslims started dancing, for they got "one chance" to defame, dent, and ridicule Islam and Muslims.

Please get that, Nezan. I'll provide for your reading and others a well-written piece on the unreliability, unacceptability and the likes of At-Tabari's book, composing great Islamic exegeses sayings on the book as well as the author. Thanks

They are reported to them from a very unreliable, soundless and worth discarding sources.

Who reported them to be unreliable?

Can you tell me more about islamic writings that were later reported to be unreliable?

Do you see how funny you people are? Koranic verses that seem to potray your religion in bad light are later abrogated (may be allah changes his mind after revealing them) and all reference writings to the abrogated verses are later claimed to be unreliable.

You have not told me why the fatwa on Rushdie was celebrated in the muslim world if the satanic verses saga was a ruse.

Nezan:

Who reported them to be unreliable?

Some unreliable bunch of people, of course!

Can you tell me more about islamic writings that were later reported to be unreliable?

Writing depends. Which sort do you mean?

Let look at this very scenario: had the "Satanic" verses existed, it must have been reported in authentic ahadeeth, or even unauthentic ones. But no record of any hadeeth report!

Do you see how funny you people are? Koranic verses that seem to potray your religion in bad light are later abrogated (may be allah changes his mind after revealing them) and all reference writings to the abrogated verses are later claimed to be unreliable.

It's not so. Not at all.

And the issue of abrogation is nothing new in God's scriptures. There is it in the Bible both OT and NT. You probably don't know thats why you are making such an aimless fuss!

You have not told me why the fatwa on Rushdie was celebrated in the muslim world if the satanic verses saga was a ruse.

Have actually said a lot on that. And you know!

I've been waiting for your response for an hour, Nezan. And you are still online--even making replies to other threads.

All your responses are becoming more and more duh. . . I will respond when you make a reasonable explanation on why a fatwa, placed on Salman by Ayatollah, which you claim acted stupidly, was validated in all islamic countries. If Ayatollah acted stupidly, why did all the other islamic rulers support him, eh? It goes a long way to show how muslims are desparate to cover up the satanic verses saga, even discrediting write-ups related to it.

As per abrogation, we Christians never believe in abrogation, we believe in progressive revelation. The Old Covenant of the Law, as given to Moses, was superseded by the New Covenant of grace, which Jesus introduced. But these developments took place over a considerable time (1 500 years) with many prophetic warnings and predictions in between, so that no arbitrary action may be assumed on the side of God. In the light of this we find it unacceptable that within a space of 20 years a need for change or correction can become necessary. This surely suggests that God is either not all-knowing or else the recorder made a correction, like mohammed who will say a verse today and ABROGATE it tomorrow.

Nezan:

All your responses are becoming more and more duh. . . I will respond when you make a reasonable explanation on why a fatwa, placed on Salman by Ayatollah, which you claim acted stupidly, was validated in all islamic countries. If Ayatollah acted stupidly, why did all the other islamic rulers support him, eh? It goes a long way to show how muslims are desparate to cover up the satanic verses saga, even discrediting write-ups related to it.

Okay. Got you.

Tell me, with proof, of these countries.

Ayatollah is a human. And so am I. How should I justify someone's action? Is he I or am I him?

Nezan:

As per abrogation, we Christians never believe in abrogation, when Jesus came, He did not abrogate Mosaic laws, but merely summarised them up. So much for abrogation. . . . . .God changing His mind? Never!

You claim that?

Promise me what would you do if I prove abrogation in the Bible? Where clearly Jesus's law abrogated that of Moses?

Awaiting your reply. . .for am leaving in a moment. Thanks

We believe in progressive revelation, not abrogation. The Old Covenant of the Law, as given to Moses, was superseded by the New Covenant of grace, which Jesus introduced. But these developments took place over a considerable time (1 500 years) with many prophetic warnings and predictions in between, so that no arbitrary action may be assumed on the side of God. In the light of this we find it unacceptable that within a space of 20 years a need for change or correction can become necessary. This surely suggests that God is either not all-knowing or else the recorder made a correction, like mohammed who will say a verse today and ABROGATE it tomorrow.

Okay. Got you.

Tell me, with proof, of these countries.

Ayatollah is a human. And so am I. How should I justify someone's action? Is he I or am I him?

Why are you dancing around this question? You have never made an attempt to answer it, now you want to know which countries supported the fatwa.

Was the book not banned even in Nigeria and the fatwa validated by the supreme council for islamic affairs? or were you too young to know what was going on?

If you have no answer to this question, shut up rather than giving duh answers.

Nezan:

We believe in progressive revelation, not abrogation. The Old Covenant of the Law, as given to Moses, was superseded by the New Covenant of grace, which Jesus introduced. But these developments took place over a considerable time (1 500 years) with many prophetic warnings and predictions in between, so that no arbitrary action may be assumed on the side of God. In the light of this we find it unacceptable that within a space of 20 years a need for change or correction can become necessary. This surely suggests that God is either not all-knowing or else the recorder made a correction, like mohammed who will say a verse today and ABROGATE it tomorrow.

What are you talking about here?

Give it whatsoever name; either progressive revelation or anything. It remains abrogation!

And God's action are not questionable. And the same God did it. Don't be simpleton, man!

Nezan:

Why are you dancing around this question? You have never made an attempt to answer it, now you want to know which countries supported the fatwa.

Was the book not banned even in Nigeria and the fatwa validated by the supreme council for islamic affairs? or were you too young to know what was going on?

If you have no answer to this question, shut up rather than giving duh answers.

LOL Yeah am quite young but who know LOADS.

And you can say all the crap again. You are hiding behind a transparent veil, dude.

You fail, even flatly to debunk any, I mean any of my proof.

Shame, shame, shame.

I am gonna, probably late or tomorrow, make a last post on that--summarising the whole thing. Thereafter I'll abandone it, for I achieve my target goal. Thanks to Allah, the Exalted.

May He guide us to the right path, amen.

Stop running and answer my questio.

See the scenerio unfolding ,,,,,,,

1. Islamic writers al-Tabari and ibn-Sa'd wrote about satanic verses.

2. muslims later discredit al-Tabari and ibn-Sa'd's for recording the saga of the satanic verses.

3. many years after, an islamic writer produces a fictional novel with the title 'satanic verses'.

4. a muslim supreme ruler in Iran declares a fatwa for revisiting the satanic verses saga and ordered copies of the book to be burnt.

5. islamic countries rose against the author and the fatwa is validated in all islamic countries and copies of the book burnt in all islamic countries and the author seeks and get assylum in a foreign non-islamic country.

How then are you dissociating yourself from Ayatollah's fatwa? What were they trying to hide? Do they want the satanic verses saga to be swept under the carpet?

Let me say it openly: Ayatollah's belief is not in any way akin to mine; I am fully Sunni while he's not even a Muslim (or he's Shi'it if you like to call him) according to our school of thought.

How then am I expected to depend or justify his action?

That ovbiosly sounds utterly hilarious and naive.

Get that?

BTW, stop re-posting one reply over and over like that. It pollutes the thread.

@Nezan: « #209 on: Today at 01:56:36 PM »  

Stop running and answer my questio.
See the scenerio unfolding ,,,,,,,

Your scenerio is very tangental.

1. Islamic writers al-Tabari and ibn-Sa'd wrote about satanic verses.

Neither was a companion, or from the second or third generations. They are not 100% authority ion Islam! The only who cant be challenege by another man was Muhammad (AS). The only One Who cant be challeneged by any being is Allah.

2. muslims later discredit al-Tabari and ibn-Sa'd's for recording the saga of the satanic verses.

The discreditting is because they were wrong. Should they have been left alone without due and proper commentary? If there was truce betweem the muslims and the pagans by the alleged Satanic verses, could there have been two minor Hijras to Abyssinia's King Al Nagashi territory? 2 Hijra were made to this palec, meaning there 2 sets/waves of people out of Makka seeking safety in Ethiopia. Tell me why, if there was an agreement in worship, even for a moment?

3. many years after, an islamic writer produces a fictional novel with the title 'satanic verses'.

True to its fiction form, except that you think its is true, hence you continue to beat the drum for it.

4. a muslim supreme ruler in Iran declares a fatwa for revisiting the satanic verses saga and ordered copies of the book to be burnt.

So? No one person or country speaks for the whole of the muslims, except the kalifa which we do not have, today. Thanks a lot keferi in power.

5. islamic countries rose against the author and the fatwa is validated in all islamic countries and copies of the book burnt in all islamic countries and the author seeks and get assylum in a foreign non-islamic country.

Liars sometime should the anger of the masses, its a show of unity. Justice may be effective and as simple as demostration.

How then are you dissociating yourself from Ayatollah's fatwa? What were they trying to hide? Do they want the satanic verses saga to be swept under the carpet

He is neither a shia, nor Iranian. More over he is not Ayatullah! Those are the facts, man.

To hell with you people, any time Ayatollah's action is thrown up, you bring up the issue of Sunni and shi'ite. Are shi'ite not muslims? Dont they read the same koran as you? Why is it that his fatwa was recognised worldwide even by sunnis. Stop hiding under this disguise to run away from my questions.

Nezan:

To hell with you people,

Thanks

any time Ayatollah's action is thrown up, you bring up the issue of Sunni and shi'ite.

So we must.

Are shi'ite not muslims?

Yeah.

Dont they read the same koran as you?

Some do.

Why is it that his fatwa was recognised worldwide even by sunnis.

Like? Tell us the country, and with proof.

Stop hiding under this disguise to run away from my questions.

Am sure readers know who's disguising.

Separetely, behave your age, man.

Was the satanic verses not banned in Nigeria? I am sure, if it were now, your boko haram cousins would have had him beheaded. Stop fearing and accept the fact. Treachery does no one any good

see where treacherious behavior lands you! I dont care about my cousins boko haram (inna lillahi wa innna ileyhi rajiun). Those who died among them, may Allah overlook their faults (Amin).

we are talking about world religion, but you have to localise it. Typical nigerian's all religion is local, instead of all politics!

Did you read muhsin's post that I replied to? He was asking which country banned the satanic verses and I refered him to his dear country. Do you know those of us that bought that novel then had to strictly hide it? an aunty brought it from the USA. No need trying to dissociate yourselves from ayatollah's fatwa.

the way i am i am free to dissociate from yar'adua's fatwa. ayatollah is so remote that i did not think about him, except the time that he organized the hostages that my apartment window was hit with stone, from those who didnt know not all foreign student was iranian!

But he is muslim, no need denying him as one of your own.

There is.

Hey you, where you run go hide? abi you dey do ramadan fast?

Nezan:

Hey you, where you run go hide? abi you dey do ramadan fast?

Just being too busy + problem. But will, inshaAllah, soon get back.

Thanks for the concern.

ok na.

Am inshaAllah back.

Will inshaAllah soon round-up this thread.

Watch out!