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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Islam for Muslims / Alleged Satanic Verses (9566 Views)
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Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by olabowale(m): 1:39pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
@Nezan: « #93 on: Today at 09:54:27 AM » @ Olabowale;Just to show you how wrong you are, Jesus was controlled, according to the Bible (you can see that imprint in the Bible) at least in three ocassions by the devil/satan/Shaitan. How did anybody know, since no one was with Jesus when the devil was controlling him? He must have told the "Gospel Writers," or those who told the Gospel writers, and so on, until those who heard it from the disciple who heard it directly from Jesus. Considering the fact that nothing was writte down when it was happening, and the fact is that the christian wrote appealed to them in creating the image that they were determined to put forward, it is no surprise to read that Jesus did not repeat what the devil said he should before he answered him as his indication of rejecting his commandments! Normally, you will expect that the human Jesus would have repeated the devil's commandments in a question form and refused it in an affirmed fashion,immediately! Or was he being tempted as god considering that no devil or anything can tempt God, because temptation itself is a sin of sinfulness? It is in the same fashion that no one can nail or hang God! In mohammed's case, he was overshadowed by the devil and was reciting satanic verses.Just to exite you, lets just assumed that your argument was correct. I now ask you was Jesus not overshadowed by being taking up the cliff, walking with his own two feet? Please help yourself out to complete the other two of the three temptations! Jesus escaped Satan at the end of the day, so did Muhammad! Ol boy, your argument is porous at best, if it is an argument at all. In the case of Moses, he killed the egyptian before God appeared to him, in order words, he did this before his prophetic calling while in mohammed's case,Consider these facts, the year of his birth was filled with killing of males birth, and he was finally takien in and raise as thei own by the household of the tyrannical king of Egypt. He was taught the quality of leadership, considered a royalty. Now do you think all of this were part of nothingness or part of the plan of Allah for that grander process of delivering Message, a Book as Prophet (AS)? And according to the Christians on Nairaland, they have indicated that God was bent on killing Moses? God will not kill a person, except that the person had done something wrong. God never will agitate a good heart to do wrong thing! And I just have to remind you that Moses in addition according to the Bible struck the rocks, against God's wishes! Who agitates anyone to go against God's commandments, again now? Of course the devil! he uttered satanic verses after his alleged calling(?). No need playing mind games here, alhaji.The alleged calling is still intact today as it was during his days on earth! Allah is still believed as God, and Muhammad His messenger whom He sent. There is Salah, Zakat, sadaqah, Saum, hajj, etc! Now tell me what do you keep of what Jesus asked you ro do, and I will give you two that you invented for every one in which you are correct! |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by muhsin(m): 1:41pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
Nezan: You should have written the link where you get that crap, Nezan. I am afraid you maybe charged with plagiarism, which I won't like it. LOL Here it is: http://www.answering-islam.org/Hahn/satanicverses.htm |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by muhsin(m): 1:51pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
And I repeat: there have never been anything like Satanic Verses in the Qur'an. And regarding that guy Salman Rushdie, he is as an illiterate Western sponsored writer on Islam. He only became famous because of the stupidity of Khomeni. And we can reason it now again--although just got some minutes to leave. But I hope we can reach conclusion. Thanks |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by Nezan(m): 1:54pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
@Olabowale; You are still playing mind games which I am too old to fall for. You accuse Bible authors of twisting the facts to favour Jesus? I thought it was muhsin who alleged that some islamic scholars who wrote the hadeeths were guilty of forging events (which I believe was employed in writing the koran too). |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by Nezan(m): 1:58pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
@muhsin; If I copy an article I like and post it here, what crime have I committed? You mean you never copy an article written by another person? Even in the ivory towers, doing research and refering to what another person wrote is never counted a crime. |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by muhsin(m): 1:59pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
Nezan: I say you should have given its link. Simple. Period. BTW, lets go on with our discussion. Pls do not derail the thread as you tacitly started. Thanks |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by Nezan(m): 2:02pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
Muhsin, refer to olabowales last post, he concurred that mo uttered satanic verses but later repented,,,,,,wats the difference? |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by Nezan(m): 2:06pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
olabowale: |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by muhsin(m): 2:08pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
Sir Olabowale might not know the real fact. He's a human being just like anyone. Now ask me and I'll, inshaAllah, prove it wrong. Go on. . . |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by sleek29(m): 2:08pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
@olabowale, the satanic verses thing wasn't brought up by Christians but by islamic scholars and it did happen if you read Bukhari vol. IV, nos. 400, 490; VII, no. 660; Muslim vol. III, no. 5428 you'll find a lot of times he admitted being under satanic influence Narrated Aisha: Once the Prophet was bewitched so that he began to imagine that he had done a thing which in fact he had not done. bukhari vol IV no 400 will aisha lie about her husband? Narrated 'Aisha: Magic was worked on the Prophet so that he began to fancy that he was doing a thing which he was not actually doing. One day he invoked (Allah) for a long period and then said, "I feel that Allah has inspired me as how to cure myself. Two persons came to me (in my dream) and sat, one by my head and the other by my feet. One of them asked the other, "What is the ailment of this man?" The other replied, 'He has been bewitched" The first asked, 'Who has bewitched him?' The other replied, 'Lubaid bin Al-A'sam.' The first one asked, 'What material has he used?' The other replied, 'A comb, the hair gathered on it, and the outer skin of the pollen of the male date-palm.' The first asked, 'Where is that?' The other replied, 'It is in the well of Dharwan.' " So, the Prophet went out towards the well and then returned and said to me on his return, "Its date-palms (the date-palms near the well) are like the heads of the devils." I asked, "Did you take out those things with which the magic was worked?" He said, "No, for I have been cured by Allah and I am afraid that this action may spread evil amongst the people." Later on the well was filled up with earth. bukhari vol IV 490 |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by muhsin(m): 2:15pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
@Sleek29, That one is a different case. For now lets stick to "Satanic Verses", please. Moreover, you can start a fresh thread. Will engage you there, inshaAllah. Thanks |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by Nezan(m): 2:27pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
It is not different, what we are doing is to show that mohammed severally bewitched and uttered satanic verses,,,,,,no true prophet of God was ever bewitched. |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by muhsin(m): 2:36pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
You are within an ace of pissing me off, Nezan. Simple questions: no "Satanic Verses", if there are prove it. And I'm right here to flatly debunk it. And I'm about to go. Don't start blah blah blah after I leave. Be just, fair and name it. Thanks |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by sleek29(m): 2:41pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
@muhsin, that clearly tells us that he was once possessed by the devil which disqualifies him as one from God, how can someone who's supposed to be a prophet of God be bewitched, hence the devil did the same thing to him, hence we have the satanic verses, and its easy for me to think that he was possessed to have said that Jesus didn't die on the cross, the quran is full of satanic verses. |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by Nezan(m): 2:42pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
An older muslim in the mould of Ayatollah Khomeini declared a fatwa on Salman Rushdie for giving his fictional novel this title. He believed the satanic verses existed and did not want them exposed. Renowned Islamic scholars (al-Tabari and bin-Sa'd) wrote about them in their hadeeths. How come a youger muslim like you, who is a nobody as far as islam is concerned argue about them? Are you more muslim than them? |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by muhsin(m): 2:44pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
sleek29: Open a new thread on that. Mute. |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by muhsin(m): 2:49pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
Nezan: Khomeini is just a stupid man. I don't even regard him as a Muslim. That dealt. Nezan: And myriads other reliable, trusted, eminent, learned scholars made it clear these people are not fully trusted. More-over, go back and re-read At-Tabari's disclaimer under his statement. Don't be that unfair?! Nezan: And who are you? If I am nobody, then you are nonentity. LOL Nezan: Nope. |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by Nezan(m): 2:57pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
Go to any mosque in Iran and call Khomeini a stupid man. You know what your fellow muslims there will do to you. Even bukhari referred to mohammed's bewitching by the devil, need we search more? dont you believe in al-Tabari and bin-sa'd's hadeeths? dont you read them? Yes, I am a non-entity as far as islam is concerned, that is why i rely on al-Tabari and bin-Sa'd's hadeeths for the satanic verses saga, or have you written your hadeeths so I could refer to them? |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by muhsin(m): 3:02pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
Nezan: LOL Thats fascinating. Couldn't you reason? Khomeini, a stupid, what of the rest? Nezan: Let's briefly judge something: Bukhari, a compiler of ahadeeth. BUT in your "holy book" Jesus is reported as been tempted by Satan. Compare the two sources: hadeeth and that "holy book". Nezan: Refer to At-Tabari's words fairly enough. He faithfully distant himself from such a crap/accusations. |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by muhsin(m): 3:07pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
Questions for you, folks, for I am grudgingly leaving: 1. Have you read "Satanic Verses"--the novel and the alleged verses as well as their content? 2. If so, can you tell me where did Salman Rushdie say that his book, which he claims to be a work of fiction, a novel, was an intepretation of the beliefs of Muhammad (SAW)? Or where the content make things with the verses? 3. Why do you insist that Rushdie's book is an interpretation of Muhammad's (SAW) beliefs - a claim that not even Rushdie makes. Or in the Qur'an? 4. If I wrote a FICTIONAL story book about a guy having a perverted dreams and weaved bits of Jesus' (peace be upon him) life into it and portrayed him to be a sick pedophile - would you believe it to be to be an accurate description of Christ's beliefs, especially as I am not a Christian? 5. Who would you say was more accurate about Muhammad's beliefs - the Quran written 1400 years ago or Salman Rushdie? Or some untrusted scholars? Or the one who made it clear he wrote down what he heard faithfully? I'm just trying to find out where you're coming from. Until I came back. Thanks |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by Nezan(m): 3:12pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
Tempted by the devil vs. uttered satanic verses,,,,,,how are these two related?, BTW, we are discussing satanic verses in the koran which were refered to by islamic scholars,,,,,,,,no body ever referred to satanic verses in the Bible. You mean all muslims in Iran are stupid? so fascinating,,,,,,are their more stupid than the boko-harams in Nigeria? I cant write what I dont believe in,,,,,,,we hold al-Tabari solely responsible for his believes which he wrote in his hadeeths, BTW, are you al-Tabari? |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by Nezan(m): 3:15pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
muhsin, You should have addressed your last questions to the supreme ruler, Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran when he was declaring a fatwa on Salman, BTW, were we the ones who declared a fatwa on him? was it not your muslim brothers? |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by sleek29(m): 4:30pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
@ muhsin,tempted(attempted) and not possessed(succeeded) by the devil, the true fact is that the man(mohammed) was possessed by the devil making an agent of the devil. |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by olabowale(m): 4:41pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
@Nezan: « #102 on: Today at 02:02:22 PM » Muhsin,Where did I concur that a or some satanic verse(s) was uttered? Are you referring to my "let me just exite you for a moment" statement? If you believed that I agreed by that satement after it, then you should also believe that I said that will even proof his real prophethood, if you Isolated that as your singular argument for or against! But I stated that Jesus whom you referred as god even went under satan, and of course all my othe argument against satanic verses did not mean anything to you then, uh? I wonder how many many people think. My argument is in the same light as from a man who was accused of stealing a cow and slaughtered it for feed. He argued profusely that he is a vegetarian and cant eat red meat and does not practise thievery. After such an exhursted argument, without getting anyone to reason with him, he finally said what if I have stolen the cow and slaughtered it for food as you claimed, yet here is my home, there is no meat in my freezers, no steaks on my grill, no blood to show that I slaughtered anything, and down there in the field is your cow grazing, is that not a proof that I am not a thief? @Sleek29: Posted by: sleek29 tempted(attempted) and not possessed(succeeded) by the devil, the true fact is that the man was possessed by the devil making an agent of the devil.The fact is that temptation is equal to be under influence, when the temptation was going on. No? Success comes later, just like the one who was "possessed" according to you, and later overcame! Let me say this for everyone to hear/read, i am of the small group who does not accept the possibility of any satanic verse. Not possible because Allah guided his tongue, turning his jinn to uneffective jinn as if he neer had a jinn, in the effect as Mary and his son Isa bin Mariam (AS)! |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by olabowale(m): 4:59pm On Aug 26, 2009 |
@Sleek29: #105 on: Today at 02:08:49 PM » @olabowale, the satanic verses thing wasn't brought up by Christians but by islamic scholars and it did happen if you read Bukhari vol. IV, nos. 400, 490; VII, no. 660; Muslim vol. III, no. 5428 you'll find a lot of times he admitted being under satanic influenceThe above do not qaulify as ahadith, because it was the statement of Muhammad, but Aisha and she was not the prophet (AS)! Finally, your claimedand alleged Satanic Verses, happened in Makka, and according to you guys, Aisha was barely born in Makka period. No? Or how old was she when "Satanic Verses incidence" occurred? Lol! You see, it is the Kafiruun who will shoot their own argument in the foot. Sleek29, you have to agree that the you can possibly agree that after the death of "Waraquh" Muhammad had some encounter with Satan! Lol, since you guys says Waraqah taught him everything, and he was a christian, except you will have to agree that Satan dwells in the Bible that Waraqah taught him! Now you see how am laying in wait for you? Arguing with you in every which way you come out with weak opinions. |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by muhsin(m): 11:32am On Aug 27, 2009 |
You guys had me laughing: I just give you some simple five question to answer but none of you can--at least have a try? For nearly 20 hours! And you claim holding "fact". Shame, shame, shame. BTW, if you are defeated and afraid to recant your earlier blatant proclamation of the existence of "Satanic" verses, I then hope other fair-minded readers could and would detect that. Glory be to the Lord of the universe. May Allah, the Exalted, guide us to the right path, amen. |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by Nezan(m): 5:23pm On Aug 27, 2009 |
[size=18pt]@muhsin, I told you to ask Ayatollah your framed questions, he was the one that declared a fatwa on Salman for revisiting the satanic verses. @olabowale and muhsin, If the satanic verses did not exist, why declare a fatwa on Rushdie?[/size] |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by olabowale(m): 5:35pm On Aug 27, 2009 |
nezan i dont care too much about your unimportant question. if you cant defend yur position dont ask me to second guess late khomeine. am not he and he was not me. |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by Nezan(m): 5:42pm On Aug 27, 2009 |
@olabowale, You should care because it questions the fundamentals of your faith. I have no position to defend on this thread. muhsin opened this thread to refute the satanic verses but is refusing to tell me why a fatwa was placed on salman. Aint it funny? |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by Daji31: 5:57pm On Aug 27, 2009 |
@Nezan The fact that fatwa was passed does not mean that the verses existed. IF one should allege that Nezan is a THIEF and goes ahead to defame your character, from your argument, you will only react if you are a thief. You must remain silent so long as the allegation is not true. |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by sosisi(f): 6:04pm On Aug 27, 2009 |
Narrated Aisha: Was Bukhari also a liar like al tabari? This is interesting. If Mohammed could be bewitched and magic worked on him with effects, what more does anyone need to know? |
Re: Alleged Satanic Verses by Daji31: 6:20pm On Aug 27, 2009 |
I think what all needs to know is that all aspect of the life of Prophet Muhammad were documented for us to learn from. You need not assume what was not reported. All indications points to the fact that he was a mortal through whom revelations were sent. Thats all. He was a man and muslims do not see him any more than a messenger. If you have any problem with that, you should ponder about 'God' being bullied by roman soldiers. |
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