omonnakoda: If you want to debate how to make Nigeria work I am at home. Lagos like London is a gateway to the country.
Let us pause and think for a moment bout alternatives in Nigeria
I do not think there re many on cultural grounds.What do I mean? I mean the acceptance and freedom given to non natives. That is the real strength of Lagos. What we need to do is allow others to feel at hoe in Lagos which I advocate. If you are prepared to learn Yoruba no matter where you come from you can govern Lagos.
If Lagos was not totally surrounded by Yoruba states I would argue otherwise but it is respect that and make your millions. More money going into Lagos is good for every body
There have been all sorts of ethnic all-out wars in Lagos, and this is the same city where the indigenous leader threatened peoples lives because of politics, this is the same city where peoples lives were threatened and people were beaten during the civil war to the point that had to flee the city, and the same city where someone sponsored this kind of protest just months ago.
There's no special acceptance culture in Lagos that you wouldn't find in Rivers, if that wasn't the case then many people of other ethnic groups wouldn't have jobs in the oil sector as we know many indigenes do not hold these positions, the states that you are referring to as restrictive of freedom and acceptance literally feed Nigeria and now that they are fighting back Nigeria is tanking.
The ruth is Lagos has to be accepting because it needs people to work. It isn't some kind of services hub like London or New York where the city can run on a handful of bankers in the city, its internal revenue comes from businesses owned by people form all over Nigeria and being the headquarters for many multinational companies.
Fremancipation: Calabar was the first choice location for capital but because the British was at war with the Germans who controlled Cameroon during the first world war, they were forced to move the capital to lagos to avoid invasion by the german troops stationed in Cameroon. This little move changed the eastern region forever.
This is untrue.
They were not forced because of war.
THe Europeans claimed different territories across Africa. At the time they did this in the 19th century they did so on paper .The natives were unaware and it had no enforceability. IN Southern Nigeria ,specifically the East of the Niger the British presence was the Royal Niger Company whose business was Palm oil.Today we know them as Unilever. They had a force of mercenary soldiers operating under a Royal Charter with Calabar as their " capital" > It is important to pause and think about the reality. They were businessmen with mercenaries operating under Royal licence claiming Calabar was their Capital. There was another ,separate arrangement,different actors,but British, covering what we now know as SW, they merged in 1906 and decided on Lagos as Capital. They also had another operation in Northern Nigeria which they all merged in 1914 and Nigeria was born.
So what was the reality of Calabar as a Capital.?
It was the operating headquarters of the RNC (Unilever) .Our young people must educaate themselves .They are too lazy to read.Maybe cinema is the only way to reveal many of these facts
Port Harcourt is not a good comparator.It is not even on the sea
Maybe Akwa Ibom or Bayelsa but those territories are too swampy ,too many creeks and too costly to develop
In fairness,considering the oil that has come out of there maybe the investment money should have been found but it is hard for a country with our population to think long term
None of Lagos ports are on the sea, direct location on the sea make no difference to a port, New Orleans, Americas biggest port, is on the Mississippi. Port Harcourt is not comparable to Lagos because Nigeria is shit, that's the only reason Port Harcourt does not handle as much or more cargo than Lagos. The government and its proxy companies under people like Atiku frustrate the hell out of these ports and have blocked them with monopolies and have been left to decay because of incompetence. Nigeria was once the largest exporter of coal in west Africa because of Enugu, Port Harcourt was built specially made for that industry, before that the palm oil trade that made Nigeria had its main port in Calabar, large steamers used to run up and down the Niger from Akassa to Asaba for the important palm oil trade.
There have been all sorts of ethnic all-out wars in Lagos, and this is the same city where the indigenous leader threatened peoples lives because of politics, this is the same city where peoples lives were threatened and people were beaten during the civil war to the point that had to flee the city, and the same city where someone sponsored this kind of protest just months ago.
There's no special acceptance culture in Lagos that you wouldn't find in Rivers, if that wasn't the case then many people of other ethnic groups wouldn't have jobs in the oil sector as we know many indigenes do not hold these positions, the states that you are referring to as restrictive of freedom and acceptance literally feed Nigeria and now that they are fighting back Nigeria is tanking.
The ruth is Lagos has to be accepting because it needs people to work. It isn't some kind of services hub like London or New York where the city can run on a handful of bankers in the city, its internal revenue comes from businesses owned by people form all over Nigeria and being the headquarters for many multinational companies.
Old man, there is a special acceptance culture in Lagos that you would not find in Rivers state.
The entire pain the Igbo Nation felt about the Abandoned property saga was in Port Harcourt NOT LAGOS
IN Lagos property was returned. In Lagos rent was returned. Even with all this you persist in your hate.You need to purge yourself
Recently ,yes there have been skirmishes and agitations and outbursts such as the Oba Akiolu one but they are understandable in the context of people like you lying with no shame. Tell me about the Abandoned property saga in Lagos
None of Lagos ports are on the sea, direct location on the sea make no difference to a port, New Orleans, Americas biggest port, is on the Mississippi. Port Harcourt is not comparable to Lagos because Nigeria is shit, that's the only reason Port Harcourt does not handle as much or more cargo than Lagos. The government and its proxy companies under people like Atiku frustrate the hell out of these ports and have blocked them with monopolies and have been left to decay because of incompetence. Nigeria was once the largest exporter of coal in west Africa because of Enugu, Port Harcourt was built specially made for that industry, before that the palm oil trade that made Nigeria had its main port in Calabar, large steamers used to run up and down the Niger from Akassa to Asaba for the important palm oil trade.
All Lagos ports are on the sea. EVERY SINGLE ONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION I will enjoy making you look foolish on this ................
Direct location makes a difference if there are security challenges,there are many of those in our country, direct location makes a difference if the sea is only accessible through swamps and creeks and therefore a navigation problem for large vessels
All Lagos ports are on the sea. EVERY SINGLE ONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION Direct location makes a difference if there are security challenges,there are many of those in our country, direct location makes a difference if the sea is only accessible through swamps and creeks and therefore a navigation problem for large vessels
None of Lagos ports are on the sea, unless a creek or estuary is considered the sea. Is Tin Can Island directly on the Atlantic Ocean? It's in Badagry Creek!
None of Lagos ports are on the sea, unless a creek or estuary is considered the sea. Is Tin Can Island directly on the Atlantic Ocean? It's in Badagry Creek!
Tin Can Island is on the sea.
Marina stretch in Lagos Island is on the sea if you do not know what the sea is educate yourself Creeks and estuaries May be on the sea,yes. But the Creeks in the Niger Delta are more challenging than the Lagos Estuaries from an investor viewpoint
None of Lagos ports are on the sea, unless a creek or estuary is considered the sea. Is Tin Can Island directly on the Atlantic Ocean? It's in Badagry Creek!
Marina stretch in Lagos Island is on the sea if you do not know what the sea is educate yourself Creeks and estuaries May be on the sea,yes. But the Creeks in the Niger Delta are more challenging than the Lagos Estuaries from an investor viewpoint
Port Harcourt on the other Hand is on a River
One is ocean (salt) the other is freshwater
Was expecting a revelation, maybe they had move Badagry Creek, and moved Creek Road on Tin Can onto the Atlantic, but alas, boats still have to go up the Lagoon and into the Creek, just like the biggest port in America is situated on the Mississippi. Did you not say creeks hinders ports?
If you want, we can list ports bigger and more important to the world economy than Lagos or Port Harcourt that are situated on rivers or even inland.
Thank you. I don't know why people wont just accept the plain truth. Benin republic have indigenous yorubas living there mostly in the southern part yet they couldn't replicate Lagos. Ogun and ondo state has access to the ocean but they couldn't build or replicate lagos on their own. But this people always use lagos to brag as if it is their own making.
Nigeria built port in Lagos, so what? Cotonou is handling as much freight if not more and can you compare Cotonou to Ogbomosho or Ibadan, Kano, Zaria, PH?. Without Nigeria, Lagos will be ten times better off! Cant you see that? Better infrastructure, no mile 12 clashes and no people calling the place a no man's land!.
omonnakoda: If you want to debate how to make Nigeria work I am at home. Lagos like London is a gateway to the country.
Let us pause and think for a moment bout alternatives in Nigeria
I do not think there re many on cultural grounds.What do I mean? I mean the acceptance and freedom given to non natives. That is the real strength of Lagos. What we need to do is allow others to feel at hoe in Lagos which I advocate. If you are prepared to learn Yoruba no matter where you come from you can govern Lagos.
If Lagos was not totally surrounded by Yoruba states I would argue otherwise but it is so respect that and make your millions. More money going into Lagos is good for every body. There are no Yoruba enclaves in Lagos and one day we will have a No Yoruba Governor but he must speak Yoruba let others emulate that
I believe Igbos can make a Yoruba that has being Igbonized a governor in their place since Yorubas dont spew hatred against Igbos, so Igbos have nothing to fear from Yorubas and Yorubas are not saying Igbo land is a no man's land but would you subscribe to making an Igbo man governor in a Yoruba state giving the level of animosity and belligerency displayed by Igbos against Yorubas? I would say that would be risky! There was a time an Igbo man was made OAU Students' Union President and he had to be attacked by students when he refused to support pro MKO Abiola rallies!. So, you need to be careful.
Was expecting a revelation, maybe they had move Badagry Creek, and moved Creek Road on Tin Can onto the Atlantic, but alas, boats still have to go up the Lagoon and into the Creek, just like the biggest port in America is situated on the Mississippi. Did you not say creeks hinders ports?
If you want, we can list ports bigger and more important to the world economy than Lagos or Port Harcourt that are situated on rivers or even inland.
You do not win an argument by shifting the terms. I am not interested in Mississippi.
omonnakoda: Every sea port is Engineered and constructed so after construction that is what it may look like .
So if you like say it is on the Obuaku River that is your problem. The ships sail all the way to the port and sail out and there is no obstruction so by DEFINITION it is on the SEA
LAGOON A stretch of salt water separated from the sea by a low sandbank or coral reef.
Yeah, I moved the definition of creek to ocean or sea. At the end, you're only choosing to see what you want to see to aid your arguments, that is the case if you can't clearly see that all those ports in Lagos are located on narrow waterways linked to the sea as opposed to being located directly on the sea like Cotonou, Lome and other nearby ports. And if you look closely on the east bank of that passage on Victoria Island you will see that the map has the beginnings of Eko Atlantic which has narrowed that passage way even more now that much of the land has been reclaimed on its west, yet that has not hindered transportation.
All of this just to make Port Harcourt, Onne, Calabar and other proposed eastern ports seem not feasible, but Lagos is in a similar situation. The largest port in America being situated several miles up a river as wide as the Bonny River blows the idea that Port Harcourt in unfeasible because of its waterways out of the water.
Yeah, I moved the definition of creek to ocean or sea. At the end, you're only choosing to see what you want to see to aid your arguments, that is the case if you can't clearly see that all those ports in Lagos are located on narrow waterways linked to the sea as opposed to being located directly on the sea like Cotonou, Lome and other nearby ports. And if you look closely on the east bank of that passage on Victoria Island you will see that the map has the beginnings of Eko Atlantic which has narrowed that passage way even more now that much of the land has been reclaimed on its west, yet that has not hindered transportation.
All of this just to make Port Harcourt, Onne, Calabar and other proposed eastern ports seem not feasible, but Lagos is in a similar situation. The largest port in America being situated several miles up a river as wide as the Bonny River blows the idea that Port Harcourt in unfeasible because of its waterways out of the water.
You keep wanting to go to America and elsewhere let us stat in Nigeria
Lagos ports are on the sea. You talk of "Narrow" waterways . That changes nothing.Define Narrow.
The bottom line is with the so called "narrow" waterways there are no cheaper options in Nigeria.
Lagos waterways require no dredging. There are viable alternatives in Olokola but for tribal reasons this has been ignored.
Elsewhere there will be a need for Dredging and redredging. When was the last time anyone heard of any dredging in Lagos
Yeah, I moved the definition of creek to ocean or sea. At the end, you're only choosing to see what you want to see to aid your arguments, that is the case if you can't clearly see that all those ports in Lagos are located on narrow waterways linked to the sea as opposed to being located directly on the sea like Cotonou, Lome and other nearby ports. And if you look closely on the east bank of that passage on Victoria Island you will see that the map has the beginnings of Eko Atlantic which has narrowed that passage way even more now that much of the land has been reclaimed on its west, yet that has not hindered transportation.
All of this just to make Port Harcourt, Onne, Calabar and other proposed eastern ports seem not feasible, but Lagos is in a similar situation. The largest port in America being situated several miles up a river as wide as the Bonny River blows the idea that Port Harcourt in unfeasible because of its waterways out of the water.
You keep wanting to go to America and elsewhere let us stay in Nigeria
Lagos ports are on the sea. You talk of "Narrow" waterways . That changes nothing.Define Narrow.
The bottom line is with the so called "narrow" waterways there are no cheaper options in Nigeria.
Lagos waterways require no dredging. There are viable alternatives in Olokola but for tribal reasons this has been ignored.
Elsewhere there will be a need for Dredging and redredging. When was the last time anyone heard of any dredging in Lagos
Once Again!! Lagos Port ARE ON THE sea as anyone with eyes can see
Yeah, I moved the definition of creek to ocean or sea. At the end, you're only choosing to see what you want to see to aid your arguments, that is the case if you can't clearly see that all those ports in Lagos are located on narrow waterways linked to the sea as opposed to being located directly on the sea like Cotonou, Lome and other nearby ports. And if you look closely on the east bank of that passage on Victoria Island you will see that the map has the beginnings of Eko Atlantic which has narrowed that passage way even more now that much of the land has been reclaimed on its west, yet that has not hindered transportation.
All of this just to make Port Harcourt, Onne, Calabar and other proposed eastern ports seem not feasible, but Lagos is in a similar situation. The largest port in America being situated several miles up a river as wide as the Bonny River blows the idea that Port Harcourt in unfeasible because of its waterways out of the water.
You keep wanting to go to America and elsewhere let us stay in Nigeria
Lagos ports are on the sea. You talk of "Narrow" waterways . That changes nothing.Define Narrow.
The bottom line is with the so called "narrow" waterways there are no cheaper options in Nigeria.
Lagos waterways require no dredging. There are viable alternatives in Olokola but for tribal reasons this has been ignored.
Elsewhere there will be a need for Dredging and redredging. When was the last time anyone heard of any dredging in Lagos
Once Again!! Lagos Ports ARE ON THE sea as anyone with eyes can see
I have not said other ports are not feasible.What I have said is they will cost more to develop and maintain and because of scarcity of funds government has not prioritized it. Lagos developed monopoly for historical reasons which has given it a first mover advantage. Now additional 2 ports are being constructed with Private money. Tell us why that private money did not choose to invest in Port Harcourt
You keep wanting to go to America and elsewhere let us stay in Nigeria
Lagos ports are on the sea. You talk of "Narrow" waterways . That changes nothing.Define Narrow.
The bottom line is with the so called "narrow" waterways there are no cheaper options in Nigeria.
Lagos waterways require no dredging. There are viable alternatives in Olokola but for tribal reasons this has been ignored.
Elsewhere there will be a need for Dredging and redredging. When was the last time anyone heard of any dredging in Lagos
Once Again!! Lagos Ports ARE ON THE sea as anyone with eyes can see
I have not said other ports are not feasible.What I have said is they will cost more to develop and maintain and because of scarcity of funds government has not prioritized it. Lagos developed monopoly for historical reasons which has given it a first mover advantage. Now additional 2 ports are being constructed with Private money. Tell us why that private money did not choose to invest in Port Harcourt
How can you be saying two things at the same time? Are you saying there are no waterways connecting these ports to the Atlantic, or are you now trying to argue that the waterways are naturally more maintainable than the ones in eastern ports? You went from claiming that creeks hinder a ports activity because you didn't realise Lagos is originally a swamp to now arguing that the creek is superior.
The question of the private money is irrelevant in such a decayed and unstructured system and in a speculative discussion in which we are discussing the historical reasons as to why Nigeria only has one port and in the discussion of the potential of eastern ports like Onne and Port Harcourt if they were situated in a sane society, hence the comparisons with US and a lesser extent India.
Again, Lagos dominance is not a triumph but a byproduct of the failure of Nigeria. You have to be lost if you think it's an okay thing for a country the size of Nigeria not only to have only one port, but to not have proper cargo ports situated in the area that feeds it and an area that has massive industrial potential if not for Nigeria being a failure.
And this is not even considering how much of a liability Lagos ports are and how they are notorious for how badly they are run.
How can you be saying two things at the same time? Are you saying there are no waterways connecting these ports to the Atlantic, or are you now trying to argue that the waterways are naturally more maintainable than the ones in eastern ports? You went from claiming that creeks hinder a ports activity because you didn't realise Lagos is originally a swamp to now arguing that the creek is superior.
The question of the private money is irrelevant in such a decayed and unstructured system and in a speculative discussion in which we are discussing the historical reasons as to why Nigeria only has one port and in the discussion of the potential of eastern ports like Onne and Port Harcourt if they were situated in a sane society, hence the comparisons with US and a lesser extent India.
Again, Lagos dominance is not a triumph but a byproduct of the failure of Nigeria. You have to be lost if you think it's an okay thing for a country the size of Nigeria not only to have only one port, but to not have proper cargo ports situated in the area that feeds it and an area that has massive industrial potential if not for Nigeria being a failure.
And this is not even considering how much of a liability Lagos ports are and how they are notorious for how badly they are run.
You want to put an irrelevant stamp on the discussion.Who is talking about a "triumph". You sound bitter and twisted. All I am doing is providing a descriptive.
The so called "waterway" is THE SEA. I am not here to teach English or Geography.
Lagos' "dominance" is a fact I am not here to engage in any kind of triumphalism or celebration. I am describing things the way they are now and my opinion of how that came to be.
As far as the geography of Nigeria is concerned Ports in Lagos are the cheapest to develop and maintain . I have not advocated not building them elsewhere but I have stated what I believe the challenges would be. Without understanding those issues then ports would not materialize in other places. The reality today is any port in any other place would require huge amounts of investment not only in development and maintenance costs but in evacuation infrastructure i.e roads and rail. The security situation in the country does not help. To move forward requires understanding of all these issues. Elsewhere on Nairaland I am on record for advocating development of ports elsewhere. Your problem is you reason in Binaries, everything is black or white and nothing lies in between. So to your way of thinking I must be a Lagos Triumphalist who does not want development elsewhere. Unfortunately such binary thinking is more difficult to change as one ages. Analysis requires a more critical ,sober and balanced thinking
As far as the issue that connects us on this thread is concerned .There is not a cheaper option than Lagos.That is the bitter truth and there is no amount of linguistic acrobatics that can change that
You want to put an irrelevant stamp on the discussion.Who is talking about a "triumph". You sound bitter and twisted. All I am doing is providing a descriptive.
The so called "waterway" is THE SEA. I am not here to teach English or Geography.
Lagos' "dominance" is a fact I am not here to engage in any kind of triumphalism or celebration. I am describing things the way they are now and my opinion of how that came to be.
As far as the geography of Nigeria is concerned Ports in Lagos are the cheapest to develop and maintain . I have not advocated not building them elsewhere but I have stated what I believe the challenges would be. Without understanding those issues then ports would not materialize in other places. The reality today is any port in any other place would require huge amounts of investment not only in development and maintenance costs but in evacuation infrastructure i.e roads and rail. The security situation in the country does not help. To move forward requires understanding of all these issues. Elsewhere on Nairaland I am on record for advocating development of ports elsewhere. Your problem is you reason in Binaries, everything is black or white and nothing lies in between. So to your way of thinking I must be a Lagos Triumphalist who does not want development elsewhere. Unfortunately such binary thinking is more difficult to change as one ages. Analysis requires a more critical ,sober and balanced thinking
As far as the issue that connects us on this thread is concerned .There is not a cheaper option than Lagos.That is the bitter truth and there is no amount of linguistic acrobatics that can change that
So the waterways (plural) that require no dredging is the sea? Okay, whatever, if we accept that Lagos is directly on the sea (despite the creek) then Onne is also directly on the sea.
The things being argued here about waterways and terrain and so forth are not relevant in this discussion and have never been because oil and gas ships and a few containers as well, although nowhere near the amount Lagos can hold, already berth at Port Harcourt and Onne. Massive corruption, bunkering and piracy have not stopped these vessels, so imagine these ports in a sane society.
The problem is not geography, but expanding these ports for cargo and to remove the monopoly Intels has on these ports in addition to having the federal government take away its Lagos bias because it doesn't want to spend money. There's also the issue of road access, specifically federal roads linking these ports to cities like Aba and Onitsha. If you look at a satellite map of Port Harcourt you'd see there are tankers berthed at and heading to the various wharfs all along the Bonny River which is supposedly not dredged and impossible to navigate by large ships.
Just so we know what we're talking about, this is Onne from Atiku's Intels sight and another site.
The analogy of 'beautiful and ugly' girls was made by yourself, as someone genuinely just stating face as you're implying, there would be no need to make such statements when discussing the feasibility of ports in Nigeria especially when the idea that Lagos geography and society is the sole reason why other ports are left to decay is a myth.
So the waterways (plural) that require no dredging is the sea? Okay, whatever, if we accept that Lagos is directly on the sea (despite the creek) then Onne is also directly on the sea.
The things being argued here about waterways and terrain and so forth are not relevant in this discussion and have never been because oil and gas ships and a few containers as well, although nowhere near the amount Lagos can hold, already berth at Port Harcourt and Onne. Massive corruption, bunkering and piracy have not stopped these vessels, so imagine these ports in a sane society.
The problem is not geography, but expanding these ports for cargo and to remove the monopoly Intels has on these ports in addition to having the federal government take away its Lagos bias because it doesn't want to spend money. There's also the issue of road access, specifically federal roads linking these ports to cities like Aba and Onitsha. If you look at a satellite map of Port Harcourt you'd see there are tankers berthed at and heading to the various wharfs all along the Bonny River which is supposedly not dredged and impossible to navigate by large ships.
Just so we know what we're talking about, this is Onne from Atiku's Intels sight and another site.
The analogy of 'beautiful and ugly' girls was made by yourself, as someone genuinely just stating face as you're implying, there would be no need to make such statements when discussing the feasibility of ports in Nigeria especially when the idea that Lagos geography and society is the sole reason why other ports are left to decay is a myth.
It really is not for YOU to dictate the terms or subject of discussion. You tried to argue a matter of factual detail if you can admit your error we can move on.
Onne Port is not on the sea. Sea by definition is salt water. Onne Port is a freshwater port. I do not try to make anything of that other than to tell you do not go about correcting people when you do not know what you are talking about. A river can dry up it has highs and lows and levels fluctuate. That cannot happen in Lagos BECAUSE it is on the sea
The Capacity of a port depends on the depth of water. The Onne Port and Port Harcourt ports are relatively shallow with much lower capacity than Lagos so I really do not know what point you are trying but failing woefully to make.
Mine is quite simple I agree there is need for more ports in Nigeria but the cost of developing them in the Niger Delta is much higher than Lagos. Long before Independence there are colonial records of shipping from Forcados and problems of silting over etc. Calabar would need regular dredging and is going to be costly that does not mean it should not happen but if you go to a doctor and you have cancer do not expect him to tell you you have malaria. I have every right to choose my analogies if you do not like them that is YOUR problem not mine
Old man I did not say Lagos terrain and society are the SOLE REASONS for anything . In saying that you are telling childish lies. They are very significant and indeed pivotal. That we had bad government is not in doubt but they were inept and not as you and folk like you wish to pretend carrying out some agenda to freeze anyone out. They did not invest that much in Lagos port either and that is the point .Lagos is LOW MAINTENANCE
Have you ever imported anything to Nigeria? I have for decades. There was a time people did ship to Port Harcourt. The truth is it was not economically viable for anyone. Not the shippers not the importers No one. Shippers would have a ship waiting for weeks to fill up while those for Lagos would fill up in a day. This is not about "being left to decay" as you sentimentally put it.
The truth is No one was willing to invest the sums that were needed to make for a viable port in Rivers State. Very little was invested in Lagos. There was no dredging or anything like that. You underestimate the impact of the dredging work and the insurance liability in the event of adverse environmental impact.
Indeed a better location would be Bayelsa State which has significant areas close to the sea but that has major evacuation challenges there were literally no roads in Bayelsa in the 70s and 80s, No bridges linking Bayelsa with the rest of the country. I am not saying they should not be built but there were always many competing demands and even the investment that should have happened in Lagos did not happen but we must not forget the historical reason which is the British designed the Rail Network from North to South to favour Lagos as the main export point which had the knock on effect later of positioning the Lagos Ibadan and Lagos Benin Roads as the main arteries of the country. It IS ALL ABOUT TERRAIN otherwise there should be a port on the sea in Bayelsa but what would it cost to connect it to the country? A lot . Maybe if the derivation battle had started much earlier the required evacuation infrastructure would be in place. Without that the port is meaningless When we say terrain, we are also talking about connectivity to the rest of the country and ease of entry or evacuation.
That has made it almost impossible for any port to survive without massive investment. There is no human conspiracy as you like to pretend but rather a conspiracy of circumstances. I know you like to play victim but again that is your problem things are what they are
It really is not for YOU to dictate the terms or subject of discussion. You tried to argue a matter of factual detail if you can admit your error we can move on.
Onne Port is not on the sea. Sea by definition is salt water. Onne Port is a freshwater port. I do not try to make anything of that other than to tell you do not go about correcting people when you do not know what you are talking about.
The Capacity of a port depends on the depth of water. The Onne Port and Port Harcourt ports are relatively shallow with much lower capacity than Lagos so I really do not know what point you are trying but failing woefully to make.
Mine is quite simple I agree there is need for more ports in Nigeria but the cost of developing them in the Niger Delta is much higher than Lagos. Long before Independence there are colonial records of shipping from Forcados and problems of silting over etc. Calabar would need regular dredging and is going to be costly that does not mean it should not happen but if you go to a doctor and you have cancer do not expect him to tell you you have malaria. I have every right to choose my analogies if you do not like them that is YOUR problem not mine
Old man I did not say Lagos terrain and society are the SOLE REASONS for anything . In saying that you are telling childish lies. They are very significant and indeed pivotal. That we had bad government is not in doubt but they were inept and not as you and folk like you wish to pretend carrying out some agenda to freeze anyone out. They did not invest that much in Lagos port either and that is the point .Lagos is LOW MAINTENANCE
Have you ever imported anything to Nigeria? I have for decades. There was a time people did ship to Port Harcourt. The truth is it was not economically viable for anyone. Not the shippers not the importers No one. Shippers would have a ship waiting for weeks to fill up while those for Lagos would fill up in a day. This is not about "being left to decay" as you sentimentally put it.
The truth is No one was willing to invest the sums that were needed to make for a viable port in Rivers State. Very little was invested in Lagos. There was no dredging or anything like that. You underestimate the impact of the dredging work and the insurance liability in the event of adverse environmental impact.
Indeed a better location would be Bayelsa State which has significant areas close to the sea but that has major evacuation challenges there were literally no roads in Bayelsa in the 70s and 80s, No bridges linking Bayelsa with the rest of the country. I am not saying they should not be built but there were always many competing demands and even the investment that should have happened in Lagos did not happen but we must not forget the historical reason which is the British designed the Rail Network from North to South to favour Lagos as the main export point which had the knock on effect later of positioning the Lagos Ibadan and Lagos Benin Roads as the main arteries of the country. It IS ALL ABOUT TERRAIN otherwise there should be a port on the sea in Bayelsa but what would it cost to connect it to the country? A lot . Maybe if the derivation battle had started much earlier the required evacuation infrastructure would be in place. Without that the port is meaningless When we say terrain, we are also talking about connectivity to the rest of the country and ease of entry or evacuation.
That has made it almost impossible for any port to survive without massive investment. There is no human conspiracy as you like to pretend but rather a conspiracy of circumstances. I know you like to play victim but again that is your problem things are what they are
Bonny estuary is not salt water, and neither is Badagry Creek / Lagos Harbour.
Oil tankers can't get into a river that obviously isn't deep or suitable enough for navigation, I'd expect you'd consider that because even Lagos waterways have to be dredged.
"Three NPA dredgers (River Chalawa, Gumel and Sea Lion) are on charter to the company to be used exclusively by us for dredging Lagos Port. Sealion and Gumel are TSHD’s used for the deepening of the Channels. R. Chalawa is used to maintain depths alongside the quays"
The Lagos Channel Management Limited (LCM) is a Public- Private Partnership enterprise formed in 2005 with its core operations centered on the management and dredging of Lagos channels. With the continued support and relentless efforts of its partners and staff team, it has made tremendous efforts and visible improvement in the depth, safety and navigational access of the Lagos Channels in particular and Lagos port as a whole."
"There are two major Terminal facilities at Onne Port Complex. These are the Federal Ocean Terminal (FOT ) and the Federal Lighter Terminal ( FLT )."
"The Federal Ocean Terminal has a total quay length of 2890 meters. This terminal which is deep and large was designed to accommodate and anchor bigger and ocean going vessels and to berth vessels of 40,100 to 50,000 DWT capacity. It was envisaged to be the largest, deepest most modern Port in the West and Central African sub-regions and has potential for expansion to serve both local and international investors. Being concessional to a multinational company called Intels Logistics services (INTELS), the construction of the Ocean terminal, was designed to be in 4 (four) phases. Three of this with 11 berths are completed and being utilized."
So what are you talking about in regards to these ports being "relatively shallow" and having lower capacities because of this?
I wrote in the last post why Port Harcourt and other ports are only used for cargo, connectivity and the neglect of the surrounding areas by the federal government, and sometimes the state governments, has led to the current situation. Lagos as a early colony, the capital of Nigeria for more than 80 years and the incompetence of the government in general is the only reason these other ports are only used for the oil and gas industry. The British had already built a rail line from Enugu and the newly incorporated Port Harcourt for the booming coal industry.
Bonny estuary is not salt water, and neither is Badagry Creek / Lagos Harbour.
Oil tankers can't get into a river that obviously isn't deep or suitable enough for navigation, I'd expect you'd consider that because even Lagos waterways have to be dredged.
"Three NPA dredgers (River Chalawa, Gumel and Sea Lion) are on charter to the company to be used exclusively by us for dredging Lagos Port. Sealion and Gumel are TSHD’s used for the deepening of the Channels. R. Chalawa is used to maintain depths alongside the quays"
The Lagos Channel Management Limited (LCM) is a Public- Private Partnership enterprise formed in 2005 with its core operations centered on the management and dredging of Lagos channels. With the continued support and relentless efforts of its partners and staff team, it has made tremendous efforts and visible improvement in the depth, safety and navigational access of the Lagos Channels in particular and Lagos port as a whole."
"There are two major Terminal facilities at Onne Port Complex. These are the Federal Ocean Terminal (FOT ) and the Federal Lighter Terminal ( FLT )."
"The Federal Ocean Terminal has a total quay length of 2890 meters. This terminal which is deep and large was designed to accommodate and anchor bigger and ocean going vessels and to berth vessels of 40,100 to 50,000 DWT capacity. It was envisaged to be the largest, deepest most modern Port in the West and Central African sub-regions and has potential for expansion to serve both local and international investors. Being concessional to a multinational company called Intels Logistics services (INTELS), the construction of the Ocean terminal, was designed to be in 4 (four) phases. Three of this with 11 berths are completed and being utilized."
So what are you talking about in regards to these ports being "relatively shallow" and having lower capacities because of this?
I wrote in the last post why Port Harcourt and other ports are only used for cargo, connectivity and the neglect of the surrounding areas by the federal government, and sometimes the state governments, has led to the current situation. Lagos as a early colony, the capital of Nigeria for more than 80 years and the incompetence of the government in general is the only reason these other ports are only used for the oil and gas industry. The British had already built a rail line from Enugu and the newly incorporated Port Harcourt for the booming coal industry.
Your tactic is to throw together a million words and hope that somehow they will make sense.
Let us take things one at a time
You say Lagos Harbour is not salt water . Please tell us the source of that water
Bonny estuary is not salt water, and neither is Badagry Creek / Lagos Harbour.
Oil tankers can't get into a river that obviously isn't deep or suitable enough for navigation, I'd expect you'd consider that because even Lagos waterways have to be dredged.
"Three NPA dredgers (River Chalawa, Gumel and Sea Lion) are on charter to the company to be used exclusively by us for dredging Lagos Port. Sealion and Gumel are TSHD’s used for the deepening of the Channels. R. Chalawa is used to maintain depths alongside the quays"
The Lagos Channel Management Limited (LCM) is a Public- Private Partnership enterprise formed in 2005 with its core operations centered on the management and dredging of Lagos channels. With the continued support and relentless efforts of its partners and staff team, it has made tremendous efforts and visible improvement in the depth, safety and navigational access of the Lagos Channels in particular and Lagos port as a whole."
"There are two major Terminal facilities at Onne Port Complex. These are the Federal Ocean Terminal (FOT ) and the Federal Lighter Terminal ( FLT )."
"The Federal Ocean Terminal has a total quay length of 2890 meters. This terminal which is deep and large was designed to accommodate and anchor bigger and ocean going vessels and to berth vessels of 40,100 to 50,000 DWT capacity. It was envisaged to be the largest, deepest most modern Port in the West and Central African sub-regions and has potential for expansion to serve both local and international investors. Being concessional to a multinational company called Intels Logistics services (INTELS), the construction of the Ocean terminal, was designed to be in 4 (four) phases. Three of this with 11 berths are completed and being utilized."
So what are you talking about in regards to these ports being "relatively shallow" and having lower capacities because of this?
I wrote in the last post why Port Harcourt and other ports are only used for cargo, connectivity and the neglect of the surrounding areas by the federal government, and sometimes the state governments, has led to the current situation. Lagos as a early colony, the capital of Nigeria for more than 80 years and the incompetence of the government in general is the only reason these other ports are only used for the oil and gas industry. The British had already built a rail line from Enugu and the newly incorporated Port Harcourt for the booming coal industry.
Your tactic is to throw together a million words and hope that somehow they will make sense.
Let us take things one at a time
You say Lagos Harbour is not salt water . Please tell us the source of that water
Bonny estuary is not salt water, and neither is Badagry Creek / Lagos Harbour.
Oil tankers can't get into a river that obviously isn't deep or suitable enough for navigation, I'd expect you'd consider that because even Lagos waterways have to be dredged.
"Three NPA dredgers (River Chalawa, Gumel and Sea Lion) are on charter to the company to be used exclusively by us for dredging Lagos Port. Sealion and Gumel are TSHD’s used for the deepening of the Channels. R. Chalawa is used to maintain depths alongside the quays"
The Lagos Channel Management Limited (LCM) is a Public- Private Partnership enterprise formed in 2005 with its core operations centered on the management and dredging of Lagos channels. With the continued support and relentless efforts of its partners and staff team, it has made tremendous efforts and visible improvement in the depth, safety and navigational access of the Lagos Channels in particular and Lagos port as a whole."
"There are two major Terminal facilities at Onne Port Complex. These are the Federal Ocean Terminal (FOT ) and the Federal Lighter Terminal ( FLT )."
"The Federal Ocean Terminal has a total quay length of 2890 meters. This terminal which is deep and large was designed to accommodate and anchor bigger and ocean going vessels and to berth vessels of 40,100 to 50,000 DWT capacity. It was envisaged to be the largest, deepest most modern Port in the West and Central African sub-regions and has potential for expansion to serve both local and international investors. Being concessional to a multinational company called Intels Logistics services (INTELS), the construction of the Ocean terminal, was designed to be in 4 (four) phases. Three of this with 11 berths are completed and being utilized."
So what are you talking about in regards to these ports being "relatively shallow" and having lower capacities because of this?
I wrote in the last post why Port Harcourt and other ports are only used for cargo, connectivity and the neglect of the surrounding areas by the federal government, and sometimes the state governments, has led to the current situation. Lagos as a early colony, the capital of Nigeria for more than 80 years and the incompetence of the government in general is the only reason these other ports are only used for the oil and gas industry. The British had already built a rail line from Enugu and the newly incorporated Port Harcourt for the booming coal industry.
Your tactic is to throw together a million words and hope that somehow they will make sense.
Let us take things one at a time
You say Lagos Harbour is not salt water . Please tell us the source of that water
You are only making yourself look ridiculous
Who said anything about Bonny Estuary being salt water? How and why is that relevant ?
Bonny estuary is not salt water, and neither is Badagry Creek / Lagos Harbour.
Oil tankers can't get into a river that obviously isn't deep or suitable enough for navigation, I'd expect you'd consider that because even Lagos waterways have to be dredged.
"Three NPA dredgers (River Chalawa, Gumel and Sea Lion) are on charter to the company to be used exclusively by us for dredging Lagos Port. Sealion and Gumel are TSHD’s used for the deepening of the Channels. R. Chalawa is used to maintain depths alongside the quays"
The Lagos Channel Management Limited (LCM) is a Public- Private Partnership enterprise formed in 2005 with its core operations centered on the management and dredging of Lagos channels. With the continued support and relentless efforts of its partners and staff team, it has made tremendous efforts and visible improvement in the depth, safety and navigational access of the Lagos Channels in particular and Lagos port as a whole."
"There are two major Terminal facilities at Onne Port Complex. These are the Federal Ocean Terminal (FOT ) and the Federal Lighter Terminal ( FLT )."
"The Federal Ocean Terminal has a total quay length of 2890 meters. This terminal which is deep and large was designed to accommodate and anchor bigger and ocean going vessels and to berth vessels of 40,100 to 50,000 DWT capacity. It was envisaged to be the largest, deepest most modern Port in the West and Central African sub-regions and has potential for expansion to serve both local and international investors. Being concessional to a multinational company called Intels Logistics services (INTELS), the construction of the Ocean terminal, was designed to be in 4 (four) phases. Three of this with 11 berths are completed and being utilized."
So what are you talking about in regards to these ports being "relatively shallow" and having lower capacities because of this?
I wrote in the last post why Port Harcourt and other ports are only used for cargo, connectivity and the neglect of the surrounding areas by the federal government, and sometimes the state governments, has led to the current situation. Lagos as a early colony, the capital of Nigeria for more than 80 years and the incompetence of the government in general is the only reason these other ports are only used for the oil and gas industry. The British had already built a rail line from Enugu and the newly incorporated Port Harcourt for the booming coal industry.
Your tactic is to throw together a million words and hope that somehow they will make sense.
Let us take things one at a time
You say Lagos Harbour is not salt water . Please tell us the source of that water
You are only making yourself look ridiculous
Who said anything about Bonny Estuary being salt water? How and why is that relevant ?
There is a range of sizes for oil tankers just like there is for ships .Even YOU must know that
What exactly is your point? By the way are you telling us oil tankers get to Port Harcourt.
Oil Tankers are loaded by Pipes which are fed by flowstations ,,they are evacuation Vessels ? How is that similar to an import Port like Lagos that handles containers.
You are totally bereft of knowledge on this matter and are just making jest of yourself
Bonny estuary is not salt water, and neither is Badagry Creek / Lagos Harbour.
Oil tankers can't get into a river that obviously isn't deep or suitable enough for navigation, I'd expect you'd consider that because even Lagos waterways have to be dredged.
"Three NPA dredgers (River Chalawa, Gumel and Sea Lion) are on charter to the company to be used exclusively by us for dredging Lagos Port. Sealion and Gumel are TSHD’s used for the deepening of the Channels. R. Chalawa is used to maintain depths alongside the quays"
The Lagos Channel Management Limited (LCM) is a Public- Private Partnership enterprise formed in 2005 with its core operations centered on the management and dredging of Lagos channels. With the continued support and relentless efforts of its partners and staff team, it has made tremendous efforts and visible improvement in the depth, safety and navigational access of the Lagos Channels in particular and Lagos port as a whole."
"There are two major Terminal facilities at Onne Port Complex. These are the Federal Ocean Terminal (FOT ) and the Federal Lighter Terminal ( FLT )."
"The Federal Ocean Terminal has a total quay length of 2890 meters. This terminal which is deep and large was designed to accommodate and anchor bigger and ocean going vessels and to berth vessels of 40,100 to 50,000 DWT capacity. It was envisaged to be the largest, deepest most modern Port in the West and Central African sub-regions and has potential for expansion to serve both local and international investors. Being concessional to a multinational company called Intels Logistics services (INTELS), the construction of the Ocean terminal, was designed to be in 4 (four) phases. Three of this with 11 berths are completed and being utilized."
So what are you talking about in regards to these ports being "relatively shallow" and having lower capacities because of this?
I wrote in the last post why Port Harcourt and other ports are only used for cargo, connectivity and the neglect of the surrounding areas by the federal government, and sometimes the state governments, has led to the current situation. Lagos as a early colony, the capital of Nigeria for more than 80 years and the incompetence of the government in general is the only reason these other ports are only used for the oil and gas industry. The British had already built a rail line from Enugu and the newly incorporated Port Harcourt for the booming coal industry.
Your tactic is to throw together a million words and hope that somehow they will make sense.
Let us take things one at a time
You say Lagos Harbour is not salt water . Please tell us the source of that water
You are only making yourself look ridiculous
Who said anything about Bonny Estuary being salt water? How and why is that relevant ?
There is a range of sizes for oil tankers just like there is for ships .Even YOU must know that
What exactly is your point? By the way are you telling us oil tankers get to Port Harcourt.
Oil Tankers are loaded by Pipes which are fed by flowstations ,,they are evacuation Vessels ? How is that similar to an import Port like Lagos that handles containers.
You are totally bereft of knowledge on this matter and are just making jest of yourself It might surprise you to know Tin Can Island and Apapa are not the only docking ports in Lagos. But those two are the subject of my earlier submissions. There are several minor docks and quays serving a range of businesses e.g there is a terminal in Ikorodu and there are others. There is nothing like "Lagos Port"
Omudia11: The way things are done in this country is just laughable. Why should Anambra with a population and a GDP less than that of Rivers state be considered ahead of Rivers? Why should a unproductive state like kano even be considered at all?
Your tactic is to throw together a million words and hope that somehow they will make sense.
Let us take things one at a time
You say Lagos Harbour is not salt water . Please tell us the source of that water
You are only making yourself look ridiculous
Who said anything about Bonny Estuary being salt water? How and why is that relevant ?
There is a range of sizes for oil tankers just like there is for ships .Even YOU must know that
What exactly is your point? By the way are you telling us oil tankers get to Port Harcourt.
Oil Tankers are loaded by Pipes which are fed by flowstations ,,they are evacuation Vessels ? How is that similar to an import Port like Lagos that handles containers.
You are totally bereft of knowledge on this matter and are just making jest of yourself
Here's the thing, Onne is on the Bonny Estuary, Port Harcourt a bit further inland, Badagry Creek and Bonny Estuary are as salty as each other, they are not the sea however, which is why they're called creeks and estuaries, their salt comes from the Atlantic which Bonny receives more than Lagos.
Anyway, we now see that Onne is as viable as Lagos, coming from the mouth of the government itself it should actually be a bigger port than Lagos, and Lagos channels have to be dredged regularly, obviously, by a dedicated company.
All the question about oil tankers are irrelevant not only because these eastern ports receive regular cargo as well, but also because the government disagrees with you.
omonnakoda: It might surprise you to know Tin Can Island and Apapa are not the only docking ports in Lagos. But those two are the subject of my earlier submissions. There are several minor docks and quays serving a range of businesses e.g there is a terminal in Ikorodu and there are others. There is nothing like "Lagos Port"
Lagos itself is a port, what you're referring to are harbours and docking points.
Here's the thing, Onne is on the Bonny Estuary, Port Harcourt a bit further inland, Badagry Creek and Bonny Estuary are as salty as each other, they are not the sea however, which is why they're called creeks and estuaries, their salt comes from the Atlantic which Bonny receives more than Lagos.
Anyway, we now see that Onne is as viable as Lagos, coming from the mouth of the government itself it should actually be a bigger port than Lagos, and Lagos channels have to be dredged regularly, obviously, by a dedicated company.
All the question about oil tankers are irrelevant not only because these eastern ports receive regular cargo as well, but also because the government disagrees with you.
Lagos itself is a port, what you're referring to are harbours and docking points.
You are making a salad of facts you do not understand . An estuary is an enclosure of water that receives inflow from a river. River water is NOT salt water but an estuary may have connection with the sea and then it is called Brackish water In the case of Bonny Estuary it is the Bonny River Badagry creek has no River connections it is pure ocean water. Again this is just a matter of fact and not particularly relevant but I need to stop your rubbish. "Salt comes from the Atlantic which Bonny receives more than LAGOS" LWKMD You are really outrageous. This is about the Bonny River and Onne. ALL RIVERS are fresh water ALL. You are making a fool of yourself You will need a little lecture on the difference between Fresh water,Sea water and Brackish water
Lagos Itself?? what do you mean. The Port of Lagos Complex? OK There is no dredging at Apapa and Tin can > There is definitely dredging at Ikorodu and other docks but not in the Lagos Port Complex.
The Harbour of a port is what tell you its capacity i.e how many ships can berth there. Ports are classed as Very Small,Small, Medium harbours and so on. The Harbour in Lagos is classed as medium while Onne is classed as VERY SMALL you can check that out. http://ports.com/nigeria/port-of-onne/
Honestly you need to make up your mind because right now you are looking quite silly
You are making a salad of facts you do not understand . An estuary is an enclosure of water that receives inflow from a river. River water is NOT salt water but an estuary may have connection with the sea and then it is called Brackish water In the case of Bonny Estuary it is the Bonny River Badagry creek has no River connections it is pure ocean water. Again this is just a matter of fact and not particularly relevant but I need to stop your rubbish.
Lagos Itself?? what do you mean. The Port of Lagos Complex? OK There is no dredging at Apapa and Tin can > There is definitely dredging at Ikorodu and other docks but not in the Lagos Port Complex.
The Harbour of a port is what tell you its capacity i.e how many ships can berth there. Ports are classes as Very Small,Small, Medium harbours and so on. The Harbour in Lagos is classed as medium while Onne is classed as VERY SMALL you can check that out.
No, Bonny Estuary and Lagos Harbour are as salty as each other, the water in Lagos Harbour is from the Lagoon, the Atlantic washes into the Lagos Harbour and Bonny Estuary and at various points range between brackish and salty.
Why do you keep digging yourself in?
"As well as removing critical wrecks that were a danger to safe navigating, we needed to dredge the Port to at least -12.5m, and preferably the channels to the following depths:
Entrance -15.4m Commodore -13.5m Apapa -13m E Badagry -13.5m W Badagry -12.5m"
You initially said "The Capacity of a port depends on the depth of water." This is what the Nigerian Ports Authority had to say for Onne in case you missed it:
"There are two major Terminal facilities at Onne Port Complex. These are the Federal Ocean Terminal (FOT ) and the Federal Lighter Terminal ( FLT )."
"The Federal Ocean Terminal has a total quay length of 2890 meters. This terminal which is deep and large was designed to accommodate and anchor bigger and ocean going vessels and to berth vessels of 40,100 to 50,000 DWT capacity. It was envisaged to be the largest, deepest most modern Port in the West and Central African sub-regions and has potential for expansion to serve both local and international investors. Being concessional to a multinational company called Intels Logistics services (INTELS), the construction of the Ocean terminal, was designed to be in 4 (four) phases. Three of this with 11 berths are completed and being utilized."
winterfell007: those people arguing against Onitsha and Kano being included in the special status consideration are cynical. the population within those states dramatically going up. a city like Onitsha is home already to six million people already and counting talkless about those they that come in from asaba to do business on a daily basis. Kano state is remarkably huge despite some insecurity still present there. i acknowledge the fact that Lagos needs a special status. but if these state must receive good amount of the nation economic resources, they must be ready to reflect a state that accomiodates all in their civil service. sate like lagos should be ready to overhaul its civil service to include non indigenes to justify the need to have that special status, so to Anambra and Kano since they are all being considered for equal status. these state must be ready to show they give equal opportunities indigenes and non-indigenes alike to aspire to the offices within the state. that's the burden of one Nigeria. my name remains Emeka Anetoh Stefan thank you
Its disheartening to see how you guys understand information. The 20% is from the money made in Lagos and accrued to the FG coffer, not some money from Niger Delta. What I can say is that, they should give all states Special Status and let them remit only 50% of money made in the states to the FG coffer. With that, we'd been inching towards Resources Control gradually.
