It is a sin . plain and simple and the bible and Quran sais so . Case closed

I GUESS THE ISSUE OF WHETHER OR NOT PRE-MARITAL SEX IS FORNICATION CAN ALSO BE LINKED TO WHETHER OR NOT IT IS SIN.IF THAT B THE CASE,WE SHOULD CONSIDER WEN TWO MARRIED PEOPLE ARE HAVN EXTRA MARITAL AFFAIR -IT IS TERMED ADULTERY.THUS FOR SINGLE PERSONS HAVING SEX ,THEY WOULD ONLY BE SAID TO BE FORNICATING. BUT WHETHER OR NOT THESE TERMS ARE CLEARLY EXPLAINED.THE BOTTOMLINE IS THAT PREMARITAL SEX IS BAD.BUT WETIN WE GO DO AS MERE MORTALS IF NOT 4 GODS GRACE, MAKE WE TRY ZIP UP 4 WE SINGLES . AND STAY HOLD TO OUR PARTNERS FOR MARRIED COUPLES, DATS ALL AV GOT TO SAY 4 NOW.THIS IS MY GOSPLE,

Gring-gring! **Lady picks up phone.

    Hello?

    Hi. Em. . . I was wondering if this is the C[/b]enter for the [b]S[/b]tudy of [b]L[/b]anguage and [b]I[/b]nformation?

    What can we do for you?
 
    I'm just wondering if you could help me with a simple definition of Pre-marital sex?

    _**coughs! What was that again?

    Please could you give me a simple definition of 'pre-marital sex'?

    Well, I. . . er. . . could send you an answer by email if you contact us online.

    Sure thing. Thanks!

    You're welcome.

------- ------------ -------

**Enquirer checks his Yahoo e-box a while later and got the following:

"Hi,

What a strange call that was! You almost got me ****! Anyhow, here's something for you if you're a student and want to know just a bit to pass your exams.

    [b]Pre-marital sex - sex preceding/before marriage.

If your enquiry needs a detailed answer, I recommend one I sometimes use from Wikipedia:

Fornication, sometimes referred to as premarital sex, is a term which refers to any sexual activity between consenting unmarried partners. Sex between unmarried persons is distinguished from adultery by use of the term 'simple fornication'; whereas relations where the woman is married is considered 'adultery'.

Just out of curiosity, is there something you wanted to say that you were too shy to . . . voice out on the phone? ."

------- ------------ -------


Okay, Nairaland - please check the recommendation of this lady at the CSLI and discuss what's possbily wrong with her answer.

All this are just grammar the truth can not be changed Pre-marital sex is a sin.

A man that is too big to be corrected from mistakes is too big to be saved from distruction.Accept and correct mistakes today for a more fullfiling posterity



trini_girl 

If you had bothered to read further you would have seen where I distinguished between pre and post marital sex as fornication and I agreed that pre marital sex in some instance is in fact fornication if it is ILLICIT sex.  I further went on to define what illicit sex is according to the Strong's Bible

For those of you who missed it:-

The Complete Word Study Old Testament suggests three possible meanings for the Hebrew word "zanah." The first being fornication (pre-marital, illicit sex), the second being adultery (marital, illicit sex), and the third being idolatry (worship of a person or thing besides Yahweh).

context definition of FORNICATION: Illicit sex - which means unlawful, illegal or NON CONVENTIONAL sexual activity for example harlotry, incest, homosexuality etc etc etc.

Any sex before marriage is PRE marital sex
Any sex after marriage is POST matrimonial sex.

Does not mean PRE marital sex with the one you're committed to and monogamous with is a SIN.


Extract from an article:-

FORNICATION: "Going after Strange Flesh"
In the New Testament, "fornication" translates the Greek word porneia ("harlotry" or "prostitution", which Paul and others use broadly to include any illicit sexual activity.

Thus adultery, bestiality, homosexuality, incest, and rape, against all of which there are scriptural laws, are biblically acts of fornication, or, to borrow a phrase from the Letter of Jude (1:7), "going after strange flesh."

In  Ezekiel  illicit sex is almost in a class by himself (see EZEKIEL: TALKING LEWD WOMEN), though certainly the other Old Testament prophets as a group have plenty to say  on the subject (virtually always as a metaphor of Israel's unfaithfulness to Yahweh; see HARLOTRY: "A-WHORING AFTER OTHER GODS:

In the New Testament's book of Revelation, John of Patmos portrays imperial Rome (called "Babylon" as "the great LovePeddler" and "mother of harlots," with whom "the kings of the earth have commited fornication" (17:1-5).

End of extract

The phrase "pre-marital sex" is not found anywhere in the Bible, and Strong's being a Bible concordance and lexicon study of the meanings of root/original words, their context and meaning in Hebrew and Greek, no such definition could be found.

The phrase "pre-marital sex" is one that was created by man to describe sex outside of marriage.

Let me expand my definition a bit at the risk of appearing to contradict myself, since I am also learning more about fornication.

Pre-marital sex (sex before marriage) may be fornication if the sex is ILLICIT, PERVERSE, or UNNATURAL example idolatry, homosexuality/lesbianism, harlotry, whoredom (promiscuity) etc. See above

However, post-marital/matrimonial sex (sex after marriage) can also be fornication and adultery with the same definintion of fornication in each case.

There is no evidence that pre-marital sex with one partner, by consenting adults, in a committed monogamous relationship, over an extended period of time, is fornication. It is not illicit, it is not illegal, it is not immoral. IT IS NOT FORNICATION and IT IS NOT A SIN

The more we learn what fornication truly is, the more we learn that "normal" pre marital sex is not fornication.

Please, this by no means is a free card for having sex. In my opinion sex still remains an enjoyable activity between two consenting, responsible ADULTS, in a long term relationship.

And finally

There is no evidence that pre-marital sex with one partner between a man and a woman, who are consenting adults, in a committed monogamous relationship, over an extended period of time, is fornication. It is not illicit, it is not illegal, it is not immoral. IT IS NOT FORNICATION and IT IS NOT A SIN

@trini_girl,

If someone has made up his or her mind to fornicate, they will look for all kinds of excuses to defend it.

The topic Pre-Marital Sex Is Not Fornication is trying to defend pre-marital sex as not fornication. But once and again you're hinting that Pre-marital sex is indeed fornication:

trini_girl:

The Complete Word Study Old Testament suggests three possible meanings for the Hebrew word "zanah." The first being fornication (pre-marital, illicit sex), the second being adultery (marital, illicit sex), and the third being idolatry (worship of a person or thing besides Yahweh).

Right there you have it - "The first being fornication (pre-marital, illicit sex)," and that says it all. What is illicit is illegal, and what is illegal constitutes sin in the Bible - which is already admitted in your contextual definition, unless no one is to understand English anymore!

trini_girl:

context definition of FORNICATION: Illicit sex - which means unlawful, illegal or NON CONVENTIONAL sexual activity for example harlotry, incest, homosexuality etc etc etc.

Now this:

trini_girl:

There is no evidence that pre-marital sex with one partner, by consenting adults, in a committed monogamous relationship, over an extended period of time, is fornication. It is not illicit, it is not illegal, it is not immoral. IT IS NOT FORNICATION and IT IS NOT A SIN

Please show us the one evidence in the Bible where two "consenting adults in a committed monogamous relationship over an extended period of time" exists as "normal". This going round in circles is not helping the argument, because already the definition you gave recognizes pre-marital sex as fornication.

trini_girl:

The more we learn what fornication truly is, the more we learn that "normal" pre marital sex is not fornication.

That being the case, it is the same thing as stating that "normal fornication is not fornication" all the same - which brings your argument to the ground since you already defined fornication earlier as pre-marital sex!

@ trini
i am begining to think u have a problem.

The Complete Word Study Old Testament suggests three possible meanings for the Hebrew word "zanah." The first being fornication (pre-marital, illicit sex), the second being adultery (marital, illicit sex), and the third being idolatry (worship of a person or thing besides Yahweh).

what u seem to be evading is that the same Bible and whatever references u use DO NOT state categorically if pre-marital sex 'between committed adults' is pre-marital sex or not.
what it says is that sex b4 marriage IS FORNICATION. it didnt add anything such as,
'if it were between two committed adults'

u dont have to be a scholar to understand this.

There is no moral justification for sex b4 marriage.
What is pertinent however is that when two committed unmarried adults have sex, it is an expression of their faith in the union they share. it is solely between both parties. this really is an ideal state,

however, trying to justify your position based on personal conviction will lead u no where.

Barricade,

You have to be some new type of fool to not read and understand the clear distinction I have repeatedly shown between FORNICATION before and after marriage.

I have said repeatedly that whether before or outside of marriage, fornication remains the same illicit and illegal sex, which you have AGAIN repeated.

Pre marital or post matrimonial fornication is fornation.

How much simpler can I say it for you to understand.  Sex before marriage is fornication if it is illicit, meaning sex with prostitutes, homosexuality, incest etc.  Sex after marriages is fornication as well, along the same parameters

*sigh*

I think the problem with you people is that you read with the motive of looking for some flaw in mylogic, there is none!

Lalas,

Does the Bible categorically state that you should take a bath everyday? And yet one would hope you practice that type of hygiene. 

Let's not go through the verbal gymnastics of what the Bible explicitly or implicitly states.  What I have noticed is that the gender that has most vociferously and vehemently opposed this opinion and spurted out insults and insinuations about my personal life, are MEN. 

I have repeatedly asked if the people who oppose this are virgins, one or two are, and as a result really should not even contribute because their view is biased.

The fact is, men want virgins to take as wives.  The neanderthal mindset is especially prevelant with african men.  Nonsense.

What is moral and immoral is to be judged against the word of God.  The word of god does not say that fornication is sex between a man and a woman in a relationship. 

When you can show me scripture that hasn't been shown before in an attempt to disprove this, which I am quite open to, then you will be taken seriously

And yes, I have a problem, with hypocrites like you who act like they can do no wrong and assume too much of people who have an opinion different from their own!

And please show me where in the Bible it say pre marital sex as I have defined it between a man and woman is fornication!

@trini_girl,

Let me assure you - I never mind people using vexed lingo on me, so your "some new type of fool" does not convey what you're going round in circles for.

You've been trying to dribble round the topic in order to defend premarital sex as not fornication. What's the point in your latest definition then confirming that the same pre-marital is actually fornication, and yet deny it again?

bari_kade:

@trini_girl,

Let me assure you - I never mind people using vexed lingo on me, so your "some new type of fool" does not convey what you're going round in circles for.

You've been trying to dribble round the topic in order to defend premarital sex as not fornication. What's the point in your latest definition then confirming that the same pre-marital is actually fornication, and yet deny it again?

I have never denied that pre marital sex is not fornication.  It is not a "latest definition".  If you read the thread in its entirety you would see this.  I am agreeing with you, and have been agreeing with the fact that sex whether it is before or after marriage IS fornication if it is ILLICIT.  Worse for after marriage because its adultery AND fornication.

ILLICIT meaning not permitted, example homosexuality, sleeping with your step mom, prostitution etc etc etc
Is normal sex in a healthy heterosexual relationship disallowed? It is not! Of course it is better to marry, but to say that pre marital sex within the right parameters is sin? I don't buy it.  I still wait for the proof. 

If you see that as going around in circles then the only one spinnig is you.  I have held this opinion througout this thread.

@trini_girl,

I actually waited all along to see if you would be persuaded that you were mixing things up before contributing my views. I wonder why the topic states that "Pre-Marital Sex Is Not Fornication", and then you have been holding a view "throughout" that it is actually fornication?

No worries if what is argued for is actually argued against. That was the part I wanted to point out.

bari_kade:

@trini_girl,

I actually waited all along to see if you would be persuaded that you were mixing things up before contributing my views. I wonder why the topic states that "Pre-Marital Sex Is Not Fornication", and then you have been holding a view "throughout" that it is actually fornication?

No worries if what is argued for is actually argued against. That was the part I wanted to point out.

Your deliberate attempt to not accede to my point is obvious and unamusing. I would hope for your sake that it is truly the case and not the fact you are so bankrupt of the ability to read and understand the content and context therein that you miss the point completely.

Again, for the sake of sanity I would just ignore your lingo and seek the substance of your input, if you had any. Point made if you can't read and see issues.

@ trini,

i'm not an argumentative type.
to fully dwell on this topic u obviously have to get personal, which i WILL NOT.


Assuming all u have said is true and correct, then;

2 people living together, committed to eachother, and having legal, intimate, non illict sex is ok.
they are married, jus not on paper.


on this earth we are governed by rules. if they were no rules, if non existed, there will be anarchy and chaos.

POINT:
the Bible has been put in place to act as guidelines for CHRISTAINS to follow.
now the choice of whether or not the Bible ommits part of our, now everyday life, is inconsequential.
The Bible was arranged years ago, thus some of its teachings can be flawed.
to successfully 'adjust' the Bible, due to these flaws is a problem. we all know that it cannot be adjusted. modify and modify, besides isnt there a curse on the person who adds or removes from the Bible??, anyway, back to the issue,


i need you, trini, to agree with part of the above before i conclude.
may i say, u have spoken well. and i appeal to u not to show the daggar.

bari_kade, this one pass me o! The same points you're raising here, have been presented earlier:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-35449.192.html#msg815414
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-35449.192.html#msg816265

But this lady has made up her mind already. I just tire for her.

trini_girl:

I have repeatedly asked if the people who oppose this are virgins, one or two are, and as a result really should not even contribute because their view is biased.

If those who are virgins should not contribute - "because their views are biased"

And those who are not virgins should not contribute either - "because they are equally sinners like yourself" (as you implied on page one of this thread)

. . . then, who exactly are those that should contribute?

just one more point, all contributors are making points but the confussion, I think is from what point of view do they make the points.
let me ask, when does marriage starts? is it from the point of intention, proposal or the wedding? clearify this, then the line of difference for each comtributor stands out.
Engagements breaks, so is marriages and so do participants change sex partners.
so the best path to follow for all is, "the giving of one's self to God.
KNOWLEGE WILL SURELY PUFF YOU UP BUT LOVE EDIFIES.

the word /phrase "premarital" is extensive and also inclusive. it is actually "before marriage", hence my question- when does marriage counts? answer this,

@switosman,

Already answered - read the various posts on the thread.

sexual intercourse goes with a lot of emotional involvement as well as the spiritual,psychological aspect and much more,that is why GOD confined it to marriage,you cannot guarantee that the partner u are with will be married to you.if God forbid are engaged to 5 partners before you marry are you going to sleep with all of the because you feel you are committed.we need to rethink the way we approach issues,not just because the bible says it is wrong but because of our own good.the plans God has for us is for good.

amazing how easy it is for us to twist the bible to suit our own purpose,trini do not worry the holy spirit is able to bring about conviction just seek his help if u are willing and he will open your heart.

degubi:

amazing how easy it is for us to twist the bible to suit our own purpose,trini do not worry the holy spirit is able to bring about conviction just seek his help if u are willing and he will open your heart.

Who is this Danfo driver trying to come in here and again make assumptions about my personal life and/or spiritual walk.
Please, use your taxi money for better things than paying internet cafe fees to come here and type patronising rubbish for me to read.

I am tired of you people on this thread.  Nonsense! Express your view and move on! Leave my personal life out of it!   
Idiot!

@ thread owner,
hi.
i've missed ur intellect.
pls speak.

u were gone too long

bnbjmnm [color=#770077][/color]
@ trini girl,
i dont have anything to add to this thread because u were obviously set in ur opinion when u started this thread.
i just have a couple of questions
u say u r not nigerian,where exactly r u from because i noticed u used a few nigerian colloquial terms

didnt u read the part of the rules of the nairaland forum which provides that u shd be nice and respectful to others and u shd not resort to personal attacks and name calling such as new type of fool and idiot?

just wondering because it seems to me u have fallen foul of the rules just to prove ur point that pre-marital sex is not fornication and therefore not a sin.

ayceee:

didnt u read the part of the rules of the nairaland forum which provides that u should be nice and respectful to others and u should not resort to personal attacks and name calling such as new type of fool and idiot?

She's just being the "good Christian" that she is.

not exactly surprising when majority of those who have replied have called her a LovePeddler in one way or the other.

let us leave this woman alone.
trini ride on with your premarital sexual Christian living.
If you can defend it before God when he asks you for an explanation,who are we to judge you.
The bible did not say smoking was evil too or drinking Heinieken.
I have not seen Heineken mentioned anywhere in the Bible


After the race,we'll calculate the mileage
_{as we say in Igboland}

yeah guys stop picking on me! is it my fault that you people are sexually anal-retentive, conceptually inept, religously deceived and analytically obtuse regarding this topic? abeg doh kill de messenger!

i tire o 

trini_girl:

abeg doh kill de messenger!

Eeerrr, who sent you?

Interesting Thread. Funny how i actually read all 12 pages. Call me jobless and i won't argue.

*sighs*.
Noo i didn't waste my time, i actually learnt alot. And from i've read. . . . .  Majority of everyone on here were just going on and on, and this whole shirime could have stopped on page 4.

But anyways  im not here to analyze the thread, so my 2 cents is that we are all entitled to our own opinion.

Do i think premarital is fornication?? Ehhh, let's not start over. Maybe some other time. lol.